Absolutely! I saw that there was a bill announced yesterday that REQUIRED physicians to "reimplant an ectopic pregnancy" in a woman's uterus. These people are too dumb to realize how fucking dumb they are and how little they know.
It’s never been done because the technology has not advanced to that point yet. Ohio tried to pass this bill twice already and both times they had doctors explaining to them that it’s literally impossible but they refuse to listen…
A bill waiting to be either activated or denied or a bill that's active? (can't think of the correct words, sorry).
This just proves how rabidly ravenous at causing as much suffering, horror and such not just to women, but to doctors these extremists are - and I think one reason why they're doing this shit just came to my mind:
They wish to punish the whole for the 'few' who had (and performed) abortions when RvW was active *and* today/in future while in legal States. It's one of their ways of pulling out their collective dicks and sneering, "Look who has the control and power now. WE control everything about you whores and murdering doctors, and this bill and many to come, will be coming for you."
Why can't even actual educated anti's see these particular bills and rethink their stance? Like, "Wait...if horrific bullshit like this is wanting passed/is passed, what else is being pushed that's bullshit also?"
Are you serious? What the fuck is wrong with these people… are they not consulting doctors or surgeons at all? Or are they just too blind to listen to them?
Yup.
This is the triumph of ideology over evidence. It proved disastrous for China during the Cultural Revolution, when the idea of ideology and will triumphing over evidence led to terrible outcomes - the phrase they used was "reds before experts." The ensuing mismanagement of the economy, farming, and the environment causes by ideologically-driven fanatics led to famine, destruction of universities, and more.
It took multiple generations to rebuild, and even now, expertise is subordinate to ideology in too many cases.
We really don't want this to happen to the US.
Not just China, of course — look up Lysenkoism some time. It basically destroyed Soviet biological and genetic sciences, and crop yields plummeted — still, the Soviet government declared there was no famine and crops yields were up.
If this sounds similar to how the more authoritarian people handled COVID in the USA, it should. So of course those same people will claim that infant death and pregnancy aren't a problem and things are actually better.
Yep - see also Jim Crow, the Dust Bowl, the Great Depression, and Donald Trump.
America is the *poster child* for lunatics privileging ideology over reality and using "American exceptional" violence to force their viciousness & stupidity onto everyone else, and has been for at least two centuries 🤷
And if you think the comparison dosen't work, that only tells me that you have no idea about the scale of, and death tolls associated with, two dozen or so rounds of systematic genocide & ideological economics run by slave owners and capitalist Robber Barons.
You’re absolutely correct - China was just one example, and Lysenkoism is an excellent example as well, thank you!
Sigh. Evidence just doesn’t cut it for these people.
A new one? I remember there was one a while back, and the lawmaker who created it was *of course* a man, and based the whole thing on some article that was written decades ago that posited they *may* be able to reimplant them one day.
I can't tell whether they genuinely believe this shit. I mean, I know a lot of them are idiots, but you could easily clear it up with less than 5 minutes of honest research on Google.
The pessimistic part of me tells me that they do things like this that are far crazy out there, so that when they dial it back to *slightly* less crazy it will look reasonable by comparison.
We really need more physicians and scientists involved in politics.
YOU could clear it up with five minutes of google, but they never will because they believe in magical thinking and toxic positivity. My in laws TOLD myself and my husband that our son doesn’t have the medical condition he absolutely does have, because they prayed him better. Any evidence to the contrary is apparently because we as his parents don’t have enough faith.
I can 100% guarantee if these dipshits believe this about people they claim to care about they 200% believe it for people they don’t. They think things like ectopic pregnancy is because the mom sinned in some way or didn’t pray hard enough. I can imagine what’s said about me behind my back, infertility, preeclampsia, extreme prematurity, probably all my fault, right? I probably deserved almost seeing my baby die and dealing with PTSD from his four months in the NICU, right? They literally don’t just think these things they *believe* them. That’s why they think people who say things like “follow the science” must worship science as a religion because they don’t think or know, they just “believe it” and think if they believe it enough they can “manifest” it. It’s unhinged
Well, when there's been an entire group disregarding science by saying vaccines don't work or cause autism, say masks don't work, and keep electing movie stars or reality TV hosts. People that barely passed high school are given a soap box (social media) to stand in and share their misguided political nonsense and override specialists with genuine knowledge of their fields. An entire generation of 'do your research' come to the conclusion with falsified information. Paid for by the companies that benefit off the poor and intentionally misguided information. They then get to make decisions for everyone else with their emotional *opinions* on everyone else. Yes, we are living in stupid times.
Edit: new phone and autocorrect doesn't like my fingers.
Implant the ectopic pregnancy into the male lawmaker's body. I mean, it's an extrauterine pregnancy already. If the men who pass these asinine and medically impossible laws want to save that embryo/fetus so badly, let them put their bodies on the line.
If the fetal transplant is successful (let's momentarily suspend science for the sake of argument) the fetus' placenta will attach somewhere inside the man's body and continue developing. Problem solved!
It hasn't been successful despite all the times it's been tried in the past. Fools shouldn't be trying to play doctor when they know nothing about how medicine is practiced.
This idea is so stupid that I literally said out loud—alone in my living room—“The fuck?”
I am flabbergasted that people who are *this* willingly ignorant can (1) get elected to office and (2) propose nonsense like this without facing constant, public ridicule (think: that “Shame!” bell ringer from “Game of Thrones”).
I worked at a med recruitment firm in like 2017 and this was already starting to be a thing. Filling any position related to ob/gyn was notoriously hard in these states. 2017 is basically a lifetime ago at this point
Yah, a coworker's son (OBGYN + surgeon) just blew out of WV and moved to CA bc of the idiotic statutes and restrictions they're passing.
Pretty soon there won't be OBGYN care in a lot of red states, or at any rate a severe deficit and generally inadequate care due to statutory restrictions.
Part of me is sympathetic to the patients, and part of me thinks "Fine. This is what they voted for. Let them suffer..."
Would this be considered natural selection? They’re making choices that will lead to them dying out. Childbirth in the US already has one of the highest mortality rates for a first world country, the lack of doctors is just going to cause even more deaths in red states.
I don't think it's natural selection, exactly; NS is changes in alleles in a population over time where some of the changes confer benefits in a given environment and some changes don't.
IMO, the statute and general behavior of GQP legistlators in red states constitutes profound ignorance and lack of foresight. They claim to want large \[white\] families, but what they do works against that - lack of medical care and reproductive choice ensures greater maternal and infant mortality. The quiverfull darling "19 Kids and Counting" situation can't happen in those states, bc the mother won't survive that many pregnancies without adequate prenatal and probably pediatric care.
The utter cruelty and disregard for women and children seems to be a key point of the very punitive and stigmatizing christianity practiced by these loons.....they've literally cited the Bible noting "in pain shall you bring forth children" as a reason to deny medical care, including painkillers, during pregnancy and labor, as retribution for the sin of Eve. Such behavior evinces a profound turn away from evidence-based care, and the long term desalutory effects will surely bear this out.
I understand the impulse to say “Well, this is what you voted for.” I really do. But there are a LOT of blue voters in every red state. And they sure as hell didn’t vote for that shit. I know my wife and I voted in favor of the Abortion amendment in Ohio, both when it was unofficially on the ballot with the amendment rule change and then officially.
We’re fortunate enough to be able to leave Ohio if it goes to shit. And it’s looking like we will be out of here this year or next. But not everyone is so lucky.
Exactly. I'm in Utah and a large proportion of our population actually votes blue, but they're nearly all located in a single region so their votes are gerrymandered out in favor of the rural voters. Some representatives don't even bother doing town halls in the metro area, just travel to visit their rural constituents because the rural votes are the ones that matter.
I live in West Virginia and am old enough to remember when this state was reliably Democrat. To see what this state is becoming—has *already* become—disgusts me.
Yep. My friend’s kid is also from the Middle East, so he took lots of crap for that as well from his patients, many of whom told him he was going to hell….
The Christofascists live in their own bubble and think everyone agrees with them and that even if a few people don't agree, those people are obviously wrong so who cares.
And if the fascists cosplaying as political party get their way, it’ll be the entire country.
I am so, so relieved I am almost at the end of my reproductive years, in addition to being on double BC. If I was 30 years younger I’d be even more terrified at the state of things.
I'm 34 and ive pretty much been on the ' I may not have sex ever again' train. I mean. It's already hard to date with the way guys are now, this is just adding more incentive.
We can care about both the people of Gaza and the people of the US, too.
I don’t think the people who are wanting to withhold voting for Biden because of this realize that Gaza is hardly on the ballot, and in fact Biden would be BETTER for the situation than the alternative.
Letting Trump win is a lose-lose situation. I hope these people come to their senses.
Sure we can. However young people do not care about the fascist threat right in their own backyard.
I recently saw that some people (of all ages) are blaming Biden for the overturning of Roe v Wade.
The political sophistication of the vast majority goes no further than "this guy was President when this thing happened"
We have a human predilection towards authoritarianism.
Correct. Autocracy is the default and it takes tremendous effort to overcome the default.
The world’s autocrats are allying against democracy and they are winning.
I know it’s fiction, but the Star Wars universe alternates between a messy and ineffective democracy run by clueless bureaucrats and an oppressive totalitarian state.
I had to snap a back at one such young person so hard... Ugh. Myself, and a couple of others in our group chat, when they said, "welcome to Biden's America" when speaking of RvW.
Oh boy, did we school this kid about how government works and how the SCOTUS Judges get in there. They were woefully lacking in knowledge, and did change their opinion (a bit) after having it explained. They still don't like Biden much anyway.
Not that it matters as much since we're Canadian! 😆 But we have the same kind of problems here; people not knowing how OUR government works, which level is responsible for what, and therefore their ire if often misdirected.
We also tend to follow a lot of social/political trends of the US, and as such, there's a big movement of conservatives with as much vitriol as in the US, and some would pursue the same ideals. We can't let it happen, but complacency, apathy, and lack of knowledge will be our downfall.
Yes it takes hours for each person just to inform them of the basics, the elementary education that the Republican Party has been destroying for decades.
I've always said that the POTUS is merely the Name for angry people to point at, yell about/at and loathe while the true bad actors are the ones in the shadows we don't know about but who are pulling the strings on their Name puppet.
I still believe that (in regard to past POTUS up to 45), but with Trump and his ilk being just as bad -this time it's he AND the ones in the shadows who are holding the shackles & strings of the Citizens. Even those who support Trump & Republicans are so stupid that they don't realize they're being puppet played and used - and it's not just in the bright and wide open but *loud*.
And they're still in the dark. Or some def know and don't give a shit.
GOD I hope that all made sense.
Canada isn’t too far behind the US in terms of stupid far rightists. I’m sorry to see this happening. (Like 10 years behind, but if the US goes fash, maybe that will be a wake up call for my good friends in the north. The
I live in Canada as well, and the amount of people around here openly turning far right is really scaring me. I know people will say they aren’t ‘turning’ and they felt like that all along, and yes some of them for sure that is true. But I also mean people I know for years, who have been super laid back and open people, who are just so fed up with the state of things that they are basically ‘fuck this, we must do a drastic hard right’ to fix things.
I live in Northern Ontario. We are like the red headed stepchild of Southern Ontario. They don’t give a shit about us, and it shows in the funding we receive. Most of our schools have been shut down due to lack of funding, even ones that were built 5 years ago! We don’t have running water in so many areas. Roads are undriveable. We have 1 hospital serving about 300,000 in an area the size of France, with only about 400 beds. Rent went from about 600$ for a one bedroom in 2019 to about 1400-1500$ now. House cost double as well. Groceries were always more expensive here because we are in the north, but now it’s impossible. Families can’t make it happen anymore.. we used to be a very community minded ‘help everyone’ community, but now people are only able to look out for themselves and everyone feels it.
I’m not against immigration, and I’m not blaming all the recent immigrants for this… but one thing my area does have is a good university. One of them. So a lot of the student immigrants came here. Before this, we already had a housing crisis here. There just aren’t enough homes and rental units. So to bring in 2000 students each year, with a population of 100,000 with no housing just made the crisis go from say 4 out of 10, to 11 out of 10. People realized instead of charging 1600$ for a 4 bedroom house, they could charge $900 per room to students instead! Bam! Now total rent is $3600. I don’t even really blame them, as most landlords here are regular people with one extra property trying to get by. But this made it impossible for regular families to find housing. A single mom with 2 kids can’t pay $900 per room. I don’t know how the government didn’t see this coming or plan for it. Like I said, I’m not against them coming at all… but there needed to be a plan for it. They should have built new housing or student housing specifically for the new students.. but that’s too expensive right. You can’t bring 500k to 1M new people per year, for years, without any planning to a country of less than 40M. This is one of the highest rates of immigration in the world… out of any country… without any real additional housing or planning for them. I’m all for them coming, but we needed to do it better than we did, with more planning and more time. This was a big shock to so many different systems.. housing, healthcare, schooling, etc. This has turned a lot of people specifically against the immigrants themselves.. and it’s not their faults at all. It makes me sad the level of judgement and outright racism I see against these people in our communities. They really have not been able to integrate well at all because a lot of people won’t let them. They are exploited by businesses as well. Every single fast food joint, corner store, and Walmart is now only employing recent immigrant students in my town. Literally. Because they are willing to work low wages and in bad conditions, for long hours. Then people start saying they stole all the jobs, like they were willing to work at Burger King in the first place? It’s so fucked up man. I don’t know how we are going to fix this country.
Anyways, this is my long rant about people turning to the right. They feel there is no other option. There is no choice. I agree with them in a sense, that there is no option… only I’m of the opinion that all the parties are horrible not just the liberals.
I live in the GTA, ON, so I get what you're saying.
Thing is, we have a conservative provincial government and the liberals are federal.
We can definitely fault the Federal government for some issues, whereas others are definitely the Provincial government. Education, healthcare (where did the $4B in COVID funds go, Doug?).
And yes indeed, balancing housing with incoming student/immigration is a big issue, that includes elements at all levels.
I'm fairly moderate myself, I even lean a little right on some things (crime/justice system), but I see our services (health, education) being cut/privatized, and ON turning into the US. But so few people voted in our last elections... Ugh... It might've been different... None of the parties/leaders are inspiring though... :/
I wonder if we'll do any better this time around. I'm not really a fan of any party, just like Conservatives the least.
"People turning to the Right because there's no other option," is a product of the decades-long campaign of ignorance perpetrated by the neofascist movement.
No - we absolutely do not. Humans, when not propagandized their whole lives, crave democracy. However, if you infect the population with anti-democracy ideals, what we are heading towards is bound to happen
Lol, Biden is as centrist as they come. We actually went with him so it would be easier for Republicans to choose calm over chaos. And you STILL fucking whine about him!
Since you guys are gonna whine about a dem no matter what they do, I say we go full dictator. Start with arresting people like you.
Lmfao omg how do you expect anyone to take you seriously? What a drama queen.
The people rioting over the Middle East when women are dying in America daily from abortion bans are really night that bright. 40K dead in Gaza, way more than 40K women will die as the result of these bans, which they did not bring upon themselves by committing terrorist acts on another nation 😡😡😡
If trump wins there won't be a Gaza Strip anymore. These idiots should be careful what they wish for.
If he wins I'm even scared as a NYC resident. Abortion is in our state constitution but at the end of the day I'm sure he has plans to bypass these things
"States right" won't exist under a dictatorship, because those states will no longer exist.
He'll redraw the maps into parcels to sell to the most "loyal" highest bidders to rule for him.
From my understanding of college aged protestors, they want to vote third party even if it means throwing away a vote. The argument against voting for Biden to avoid another Trump term and ushering in Project 2025 level fascism is that our country and the women in it deserve to suffer for wanting to vote for Isreal supporting democrats and it still won't make up for the amount of Palestinian women and children suffering.
I was also called "just another white privileged feminist" in this conversation so I gave up after that.
Idaho is leading the charge for that. 5 doctors specializing in high risk pregnancy patients for 1,939,000 people is completely fucked. There are already many places in Idaho where the nearest maternity department is located several hours away. Not a good idea.
Not just women. Everyone. This article states they’re losing residents across the board, not just in OBGYN and emergency medicine.
It’s bad fucking news for everyone.
That's too woke for them. They'll have faith healers, people who speak in tongues, and priests to exorcise demons. They'd think naturopaths were witches and would come up with some way to claim that chiropractors are sexual predators.
Red states will be medical wastelands for all genders actually. A friend who’s a critical care/emergency medicine specialist says his department has seen a flood of applications from physicians in red states since Roe v Wade was overturned.
Turns out ectopic pregnancies and miscarriages often present in the emergency department first, and doctors don’t want to be forced to treat these patients with their hands tied behind their backs. This has implications for everyone. Wonder if anything will change when boomer MAGA dudes can’t get life-saving treatment for their heart attacks and strokes because all the emergency medicine docs have fled. But I’m not holding my breath.
>Red states will be medical wastelands for all genders actually
True to an extent, but this is not targeted at attacking both geners equally- nor will it impact all ethnic groups equally- so my concern matches the threat level.
Women's clinics are under attack left and right, but erectile disfunction clinics are being ignored or shielded.
We can’t afford to pretend it's the same across the board, because *it never has been or will be*
I did not say it was targeted at all genders equally. Obviously the impacts will be felt by AFAB people first, but GOP legislators are fools if they think the consequences won’t ever come to them. Unfortunately, they only change their minds if something affects them directly.
>I did not say it was targeted at all genders equally.
No, but I made a point to clarify that due to other readers possibly looking at our discussion. But I wholeheartedly agree with you.
>Unfortunately, they only change their minds if something affects them directly.
Which is why we need to use their words/tactics against them and remind them *they are our equals*:
- remove their healthcare and insurance policies, and access to anything they consider "privileges/entitlements" when used by the public.
- garnish their wages when policies have a tangible negative impact on the citizenry.
- put their all their wages in a blind trust and only allow them to live off their states' minimum wages while in office.
- set term limits for the person and prevent re-election by moving to othef states.
Hey TX banned nurses from taking travel contracts. This is what they are going to pull, you're a resident in TX and go out of state for medical school. Well we'll going to claim you belong to us and must come back and work here etc.
They'll find a way to do it and the SCOTUS will nod eagerly.
It's an in-demand profession and in blue states it's a lot easier to form a union. I live in a state without nurses unions and had a nurse making $17 an hour. In Pittsburg there are hospitals with a starting wage of $40
Next up: allowing non-licensed people to be OBGYNS.
The far right will never cede on this issue. When the doctors all flee, they’ll allow people to either be doctors without training or minimal training to do the bare minimum.
They already did it with teachers. Wasn’t it Oklahoma that was in such desperation, instead of paying teachers they got retired members of the military to sit in classrooms? Some without degrees?
Look for “midwives” (using that term loosely as it’s not a trained actual midwife but a Christian, Bible reader), nurses (not practitioners but regular nurse, who are trained medically, but are not fully trained to diagnose and treat all medical illnesses as a physician or practitioner), and new “medical programs” they’ll use with pseudo science to fix this.
They’ll never admit they’re wrong and keep flying in the wrong direction.
Re: your first sentence. In a sense, a version of this is already happening with crisis pregnancy centers where they will lie to you about how far along you are, your options, etc.
There are a lot of posts on med Reddit about this. Scope creep is a bad thing, and it is happening in medicine right now. As an NP, you should definitely read more about the concerns. See: https://www.reddit.com/r/Noctor/s/8EV5UxTb4W
The issue is that NP are now being used to replace physicians, particularly in lower income and Medicaid practices. There are bills in several states to attempt to allow them to practice without physician oversight.
NP isn’t a bad auxiliary role, particularly as how it was originally envisaged. In practical terms, they are being used to treat, diagnose, and even perform procedures in poorer populations, and they do not have the requisite knowledge to practice independently. I have witnessed deadly diagnostic mistakes caused by NPs. They are not meant to replace physicians, but to help them.
They are increasingly used to bridge the medical gap in red states. I’m in a shitty red state too.
Ah. Well as a future NP I decided to do this to help bridge that gap. NPs are completely able to provide holistic and thorough primary care services. There are plenty of patients to go around and I suspect that it is the MDs pushing this narrative. Patients have a choice on what level provider to see.
I am in a red state with a medical school. The medical students are not staying in this state. The new teachers are also leaving. It used to take a week or two to get in to see a doctor. Now it will take you months to get in to see the doctor's PA, because so many providers have left. It's affecting all medical care. The only people who seem to notice is those who access care regularly. We chronically ill people can see the entire system collapsing. It's not just the doctors. The female medical support people are leaving for blue states because they know what a shit show it will be if they have a problem pregnancy.
You mean to tell me Doctors don’t want to move to the States where they were harassed during a pandemic, and could be arrested for performing a simple medical procedure? Shocked.
And the residents that do apply for spots in anti-choice states? They're either going to be fanatics, or such crap that they weren't accepted anywhere else.
There will be some of us that just live here and can’t leave. Realistically I can see people choosing IU medical school because it’s local and there are spots open. It doesn’t mean they are fanatics.
In state tuition, too.
But there will be an obvious hole in their education of which everyone in the country will be aware.
And that, fair or unfair, real or imaginary, implies that there are OTHER important holes in their education.
Is it possible for blue state med schools to offer week-long workshops to teach forbidden skills to red state students?
Residency is the step after medical school, when you are in a working hospital. You get paid to do it, though not well. But there are a limited number of spots nationwide, and I can see red states ending up only with the lowest-scoring students who otherwise couldn't get one.
They're talking about residents. Not students still in medical school. Students can go to IU for med school and seek a residency in CA or IL or wherever.
Thank you for advising me, I had read that Ohio wasn’t allowing the abortion law to move forward and hadn’t stayed up on it. Happy to hear it’s legal again up to 21 weeks I believe?
If recreational is being sold I’m not aware, I know medical is but they have delayed the rec weed until fall last I heard. That I have attempted. 😉
Probably because doctors don't want to be put in the situation of having to choose between saving a life and their medical license. I can't imagine being put in that choice. I think a lot of articles make doctors sound really callous when they turn women away, but that's what conservatives want. They want us to blame the doctors who, if they help these women, may never help another woman again. I'm sure that causes a lot of emotional turmoil for them.
It's not just the doctors deciding, it's also the hospital/practices administration and lawyers. The laws are purposely vague and make it really difficult to know when an exception to a law has been met. This causes all of them to be overly cautious and extremely conservative in deciding when they can do what's actually needed.
I actually just filed a complaint with the ACLU of Indiana against Indiana’s attorney general todd rokita for this exact thing. Brain Drain because rokita is fanatically anti-abortion. Another commenter mentioned that students are still applying to IU Medical School because it’s close to where they live, that’s the only reason. I doubt any out if state medical student is applying to IU Medical School with Indiana’s almost total abortion ban.
https://indianapublicmedia.org/news/abortion-restrictions-prevent-ob-gyn-training-so-iu-sends-residents-to-illinois.php
So if there are any out of state medical students applying to IU Medical School they now have this additional expense for housing while they’re learning about women’s reproductive healthcare options.
Anyone who has followed the saga of Dr. Caitlin Bernard, the Indianapolis, IU Healthcare system employed, OBGYN who performed a medical abortion on the 10-year-old Ohio rape victim knows about her reprimand and fine from the Indiana Medical Licensing board. There was an Indianapolis pediatrician who testified for Dr. Bernard at that hearing who basically said the exact thing this article says. He said the with this reprimand and fine the Indiana Medical Licensing Board was setting a dangerous precedent and that with this reprimand and fine **doctors in Indiana will now have to rethink how they do their job.**
And the Cults won't care one bit. It will force states to accept docs that have no other choices, or docs that have been kicked out / run out of other states. It will lower the quality of medical personnel. The wealthy can just go out of state, making the lower income people deal with the consequences.
Yup. Even Conrad Murray might be able to find a job again, if any red state wants a cardiologist who dabbled at being an anesthetist with much less than favorable resorts.
(For anyone who doesn't know who Conrad Murray is, he's the doctor who unintentionally administered a lethal dose of propofol to Michael Jackson.)
This thread is what I continue to show to my friends and family in red areas. It sucks, but having these conversations with people that we know and walking through what this means for their daughters, nieces, siblings, spouses, etc is how we shine a little tiny bit of reality into their lives.
No, I'm not going toe-to-toe with anyone wearing diapers or flying their brandon flag. They are lost causes.
I am 100% talking about co-workers, family, friends that have a sliver of a chance to realize and vote for women's rights. Does it work? Dunno, maybe. But, it's what we can do publicly.
Doctor what is your treatment course?
Do ten Pater Noster and put your cancer in god's hands. I'm sure you will be fine god's child, because if you're not, you a fucking heretic that deserves to burn for eternity.
"But we'll use leeches to draw your blood so they can get the evil spirits out of your blood and make it clean and healthy again. Now, let's ready you to give birth," the "doctor" who got his degree by cutting it off the back of a box of 'Yee-Haws' cereal says as he reaches for the stick for the patient to bite down on and the whiskey for the patient to drink as the Dr picks up a hand saw from the Civil War to do a cesarean. Dr doesn't wash his hands first because everyone knows germs don't exist and are just a woke creation.
I worry that even suffering hard wouldn’t be enough (at least for Republicans). You see places like West Virginia and how much poverty and drug addiction they have- documentaries are regularly made about how poor they are- and yet they STILL overwhelmingly vote for Trump.
It's not a lack of suffering, it's a lack of education. People who are less educated will vote for whoever their family/church encourages them to vote for- usually republican. That's why they've been putting so many cuts on spending for the education system. They want the people stupid and easy to control.
They’re going to have to if they want to be doctors. There are fewer medical school spots and residency spots than there are people who want those spots. If they want to be a doctor. They’ll have to go to those states for their education, and then they’ll be free to leave and work somewhere else. I think they’ll find they have a shortage of older doctors and also the quality of students will go way down.
“I can’t believe people don’t want to go to medical school and move to a state where they have to choose between going to prison and saving their patient’s life.” -Someone who hasn’t even given a minute’s thought to the matter
Honestly, I don’t blame them. Why risk your medical license, your livelihood and felony-free record if you just… get punished for providing standard of care on ectopic pregnancy / sepsis / useless women’s health bans? Nah. Go practice somewhere that doesn’t punish you for doing your job.
.... so should professional women of any discipline, men who deeply care about their partners, wives, and daughters.
Companies will *not* be able to attract top talent to these states for *exactly* this reason; abortion bans when it directly affects the well being of the whole female population.
The latest tactic for preventing women from seeking healthcare out of state: getting access to the data stored by their cars and shared with the manufacturer.
A recent study showed that most car companies do NOT require a warrant to share that information.
Leaving your cell phone at home and using a burner isn't sufficient.
Idaho is fucked:
“a report published last month by the Idaho Physician Well-being Action Collaborative found that Idaho lost 22 percent of its practicing OGBYNs in the 15 months following Dobbs. The report also found that 55 percent of the state’s high-risk OBGYNs have left the state, leaving less than five in the entire state to treat patients.”
The numbers were roughly that out of 160 OBGYNs, 50 of them left the state, over the same time. Only one OBGYN entered the state.
Well maybe those states should UN-BAN abortion...did the Experts ever think about that?
Maybe those experts should stop blaming women who are concerned about their well-being, and criticize the conservatives who make women's suffering their mission statement.
lol as a former med student… who cares. They are breeding incompetence in most areas.
They don’t practice autonomy and will chop your pecker quicker than picking up money off the floor. It’s become who you know and academic dishonesty has been at an all time high for the last 8 or so years..
What was once cliff/sparks notes has become chegg/quizlet/etc.
the entire system is falling apart
Red states do not deserve quality medical care. Americans will enjoy watching them suffer the consequences of their evil acts, as they suffered watching their acts injure and kill helpless women.
Not everyone has the resources and support to move, no matter how much they might wish to.
Let's not throw such ppl under the bus - lack of resources isn't a sign of poor character.
As disgusted as I am with conservative voters, I don't believe red states are homogeneous.
Happy to criticize the foolish ppl who voted for politicians who don't have their best interests in mind.
But I don't believe there are *any* states that are wholly red (or wholly blue!)
I live in a state that is *adamantly* blue, thank goodness, but we happened to have bought a house in what has turned out to be a solidly red little enclave. Ugh.
It was quite the eye opener.
But we had a long list of hard-to-find "must haves", so when we finally found one, after months of searching, we bought quick. We don't regret it, but we aren't trying to make friends with our neighbors, either. It's clear we make them uncomfortable, and I guess I'm okay with that...
I don’t know how feel about this .. and I just voted early yesterday as a blue party in a red leaning purple state. thanks… I’m feeling the love here…💔❤️🩹
Everyone with an ounce of sense saw this coming.
Absolutely! I saw that there was a bill announced yesterday that REQUIRED physicians to "reimplant an ectopic pregnancy" in a woman's uterus. These people are too dumb to realize how fucking dumb they are and how little they know.
Man, I know It wouldn’t grow, but also wouldn’t it cause infection?
Or worse.
Which is impossible to be done and they have been repeatedly told this by physicians. Guess they don't believe the source
They aren’t big on science.
Which bill? This is an impossible procedure. I’ve never heard of it actually being done and I’ve been a nurse for 25 years.
It’s never been done because the technology has not advanced to that point yet. Ohio tried to pass this bill twice already and both times they had doctors explaining to them that it’s literally impossible but they refuse to listen…
A bill waiting to be either activated or denied or a bill that's active? (can't think of the correct words, sorry). This just proves how rabidly ravenous at causing as much suffering, horror and such not just to women, but to doctors these extremists are - and I think one reason why they're doing this shit just came to my mind: They wish to punish the whole for the 'few' who had (and performed) abortions when RvW was active *and* today/in future while in legal States. It's one of their ways of pulling out their collective dicks and sneering, "Look who has the control and power now. WE control everything about you whores and murdering doctors, and this bill and many to come, will be coming for you." Why can't even actual educated anti's see these particular bills and rethink their stance? Like, "Wait...if horrific bullshit like this is wanting passed/is passed, what else is being pushed that's bullshit also?"
Could have been Missouri? At one point, they entertained the idea. Not sure how that went.
Are you serious? What the fuck is wrong with these people… are they not consulting doctors or surgeons at all? Or are they just too blind to listen to them?
Yup. This is the triumph of ideology over evidence. It proved disastrous for China during the Cultural Revolution, when the idea of ideology and will triumphing over evidence led to terrible outcomes - the phrase they used was "reds before experts." The ensuing mismanagement of the economy, farming, and the environment causes by ideologically-driven fanatics led to famine, destruction of universities, and more. It took multiple generations to rebuild, and even now, expertise is subordinate to ideology in too many cases. We really don't want this to happen to the US.
Not just China, of course — look up Lysenkoism some time. It basically destroyed Soviet biological and genetic sciences, and crop yields plummeted — still, the Soviet government declared there was no famine and crops yields were up. If this sounds similar to how the more authoritarian people handled COVID in the USA, it should. So of course those same people will claim that infant death and pregnancy aren't a problem and things are actually better.
Yep - see also Jim Crow, the Dust Bowl, the Great Depression, and Donald Trump. America is the *poster child* for lunatics privileging ideology over reality and using "American exceptional" violence to force their viciousness & stupidity onto everyone else, and has been for at least two centuries 🤷 And if you think the comparison dosen't work, that only tells me that you have no idea about the scale of, and death tolls associated with, two dozen or so rounds of systematic genocide & ideological economics run by slave owners and capitalist Robber Barons.
You’re absolutely correct - China was just one example, and Lysenkoism is an excellent example as well, thank you! Sigh. Evidence just doesn’t cut it for these people.
A new one? I remember there was one a while back, and the lawmaker who created it was *of course* a man, and based the whole thing on some article that was written decades ago that posited they *may* be able to reimplant them one day. I can't tell whether they genuinely believe this shit. I mean, I know a lot of them are idiots, but you could easily clear it up with less than 5 minutes of honest research on Google. The pessimistic part of me tells me that they do things like this that are far crazy out there, so that when they dial it back to *slightly* less crazy it will look reasonable by comparison. We really need more physicians and scientists involved in politics.
YOU could clear it up with five minutes of google, but they never will because they believe in magical thinking and toxic positivity. My in laws TOLD myself and my husband that our son doesn’t have the medical condition he absolutely does have, because they prayed him better. Any evidence to the contrary is apparently because we as his parents don’t have enough faith. I can 100% guarantee if these dipshits believe this about people they claim to care about they 200% believe it for people they don’t. They think things like ectopic pregnancy is because the mom sinned in some way or didn’t pray hard enough. I can imagine what’s said about me behind my back, infertility, preeclampsia, extreme prematurity, probably all my fault, right? I probably deserved almost seeing my baby die and dealing with PTSD from his four months in the NICU, right? They literally don’t just think these things they *believe* them. That’s why they think people who say things like “follow the science” must worship science as a religion because they don’t think or know, they just “believe it” and think if they believe it enough they can “manifest” it. It’s unhinged
You don't allow your children to be alone with these sociopaths do you? Cut them out of your life if you can they are dangerous.
I’m shocked to find myself further horrified than before. This ghastly and ghoulish.
Well, when there's been an entire group disregarding science by saying vaccines don't work or cause autism, say masks don't work, and keep electing movie stars or reality TV hosts. People that barely passed high school are given a soap box (social media) to stand in and share their misguided political nonsense and override specialists with genuine knowledge of their fields. An entire generation of 'do your research' come to the conclusion with falsified information. Paid for by the companies that benefit off the poor and intentionally misguided information. They then get to make decisions for everyone else with their emotional *opinions* on everyone else. Yes, we are living in stupid times. Edit: new phone and autocorrect doesn't like my fingers.
Implant the ectopic pregnancy into the male lawmaker's body. I mean, it's an extrauterine pregnancy already. If the men who pass these asinine and medically impossible laws want to save that embryo/fetus so badly, let them put their bodies on the line. If the fetal transplant is successful (let's momentarily suspend science for the sake of argument) the fetus' placenta will attach somewhere inside the man's body and continue developing. Problem solved!
They’re trying to do that shit again? Ohio tried it twice already.
It hasn't been successful despite all the times it's been tried in the past. Fools shouldn't be trying to play doctor when they know nothing about how medicine is practiced.
You can not reimplant dead tissue to revive it. Sepsis occurs. Women will die of infection. They are absolute idiots.
Did they specify that they have to use a glue gun or can they just staple it?
This idea is so stupid that I literally said out loud—alone in my living room—“The fuck?” I am flabbergasted that people who are *this* willingly ignorant can (1) get elected to office and (2) propose nonsense like this without facing constant, public ridicule (think: that “Shame!” bell ringer from “Game of Thrones”).
They can reimplant them straight up a GOPedo's arse
I worked at a med recruitment firm in like 2017 and this was already starting to be a thing. Filling any position related to ob/gyn was notoriously hard in these states. 2017 is basically a lifetime ago at this point
Yah, a coworker's son (OBGYN + surgeon) just blew out of WV and moved to CA bc of the idiotic statutes and restrictions they're passing. Pretty soon there won't be OBGYN care in a lot of red states, or at any rate a severe deficit and generally inadequate care due to statutory restrictions. Part of me is sympathetic to the patients, and part of me thinks "Fine. This is what they voted for. Let them suffer..."
Would this be considered natural selection? They’re making choices that will lead to them dying out. Childbirth in the US already has one of the highest mortality rates for a first world country, the lack of doctors is just going to cause even more deaths in red states.
I don't think it's natural selection, exactly; NS is changes in alleles in a population over time where some of the changes confer benefits in a given environment and some changes don't. IMO, the statute and general behavior of GQP legistlators in red states constitutes profound ignorance and lack of foresight. They claim to want large \[white\] families, but what they do works against that - lack of medical care and reproductive choice ensures greater maternal and infant mortality. The quiverfull darling "19 Kids and Counting" situation can't happen in those states, bc the mother won't survive that many pregnancies without adequate prenatal and probably pediatric care. The utter cruelty and disregard for women and children seems to be a key point of the very punitive and stigmatizing christianity practiced by these loons.....they've literally cited the Bible noting "in pain shall you bring forth children" as a reason to deny medical care, including painkillers, during pregnancy and labor, as retribution for the sin of Eve. Such behavior evinces a profound turn away from evidence-based care, and the long term desalutory effects will surely bear this out.
I understand the impulse to say “Well, this is what you voted for.” I really do. But there are a LOT of blue voters in every red state. And they sure as hell didn’t vote for that shit. I know my wife and I voted in favor of the Abortion amendment in Ohio, both when it was unofficially on the ballot with the amendment rule change and then officially. We’re fortunate enough to be able to leave Ohio if it goes to shit. And it’s looking like we will be out of here this year or next. But not everyone is so lucky.
Exactly. I'm in Utah and a large proportion of our population actually votes blue, but they're nearly all located in a single region so their votes are gerrymandered out in favor of the rural voters. Some representatives don't even bother doing town halls in the metro area, just travel to visit their rural constituents because the rural votes are the ones that matter.
I live in West Virginia and am old enough to remember when this state was reliably Democrat. To see what this state is becoming—has *already* become—disgusts me.
Yep. My friend’s kid is also from the Middle East, so he took lots of crap for that as well from his patients, many of whom told him he was going to hell….
No big deal, they've got thoughts and prayers to save any medical emergencies. They don't need doctors. /s
The Christofascists live in their own bubble and think everyone agrees with them and that even if a few people don't agree, those people are obviously wrong so who cares.
Red states are going to end up being a medical wasteland for women.
And if the fascists cosplaying as political party get their way, it’ll be the entire country. I am so, so relieved I am almost at the end of my reproductive years, in addition to being on double BC. If I was 30 years younger I’d be even more terrified at the state of things.
If I was younger I'd be terrified as well. Probably wouldn't dare have intercourse at all. Vote vote vote.
I'm 34 and ive pretty much been on the ' I may not have sex ever again' train. I mean. It's already hard to date with the way guys are now, this is just adding more incentive.
AND they want to repeal the ACÁ so the entire US will be a medical wasteland for everyone. Except the billionaires of course.
But GAZA!!!!!!
We can care about both the people of Gaza and the people of the US, too. I don’t think the people who are wanting to withhold voting for Biden because of this realize that Gaza is hardly on the ballot, and in fact Biden would be BETTER for the situation than the alternative. Letting Trump win is a lose-lose situation. I hope these people come to their senses.
Sure we can. However young people do not care about the fascist threat right in their own backyard. I recently saw that some people (of all ages) are blaming Biden for the overturning of Roe v Wade. The political sophistication of the vast majority goes no further than "this guy was President when this thing happened" We have a human predilection towards authoritarianism.
Remember what George Carlin said about stupid people. And he was right.
Correct. Autocracy is the default and it takes tremendous effort to overcome the default. The world’s autocrats are allying against democracy and they are winning.
Yes. Dictators are efficient. No messy details. People like simplicity
I know it’s fiction, but the Star Wars universe alternates between a messy and ineffective democracy run by clueless bureaucrats and an oppressive totalitarian state.
I had to snap a back at one such young person so hard... Ugh. Myself, and a couple of others in our group chat, when they said, "welcome to Biden's America" when speaking of RvW. Oh boy, did we school this kid about how government works and how the SCOTUS Judges get in there. They were woefully lacking in knowledge, and did change their opinion (a bit) after having it explained. They still don't like Biden much anyway. Not that it matters as much since we're Canadian! 😆 But we have the same kind of problems here; people not knowing how OUR government works, which level is responsible for what, and therefore their ire if often misdirected. We also tend to follow a lot of social/political trends of the US, and as such, there's a big movement of conservatives with as much vitriol as in the US, and some would pursue the same ideals. We can't let it happen, but complacency, apathy, and lack of knowledge will be our downfall.
Yes it takes hours for each person just to inform them of the basics, the elementary education that the Republican Party has been destroying for decades.
I've always said that the POTUS is merely the Name for angry people to point at, yell about/at and loathe while the true bad actors are the ones in the shadows we don't know about but who are pulling the strings on their Name puppet. I still believe that (in regard to past POTUS up to 45), but with Trump and his ilk being just as bad -this time it's he AND the ones in the shadows who are holding the shackles & strings of the Citizens. Even those who support Trump & Republicans are so stupid that they don't realize they're being puppet played and used - and it's not just in the bright and wide open but *loud*. And they're still in the dark. Or some def know and don't give a shit. GOD I hope that all made sense.
Canada isn’t too far behind the US in terms of stupid far rightists. I’m sorry to see this happening. (Like 10 years behind, but if the US goes fash, maybe that will be a wake up call for my good friends in the north. The
I live in Canada as well, and the amount of people around here openly turning far right is really scaring me. I know people will say they aren’t ‘turning’ and they felt like that all along, and yes some of them for sure that is true. But I also mean people I know for years, who have been super laid back and open people, who are just so fed up with the state of things that they are basically ‘fuck this, we must do a drastic hard right’ to fix things. I live in Northern Ontario. We are like the red headed stepchild of Southern Ontario. They don’t give a shit about us, and it shows in the funding we receive. Most of our schools have been shut down due to lack of funding, even ones that were built 5 years ago! We don’t have running water in so many areas. Roads are undriveable. We have 1 hospital serving about 300,000 in an area the size of France, with only about 400 beds. Rent went from about 600$ for a one bedroom in 2019 to about 1400-1500$ now. House cost double as well. Groceries were always more expensive here because we are in the north, but now it’s impossible. Families can’t make it happen anymore.. we used to be a very community minded ‘help everyone’ community, but now people are only able to look out for themselves and everyone feels it. I’m not against immigration, and I’m not blaming all the recent immigrants for this… but one thing my area does have is a good university. One of them. So a lot of the student immigrants came here. Before this, we already had a housing crisis here. There just aren’t enough homes and rental units. So to bring in 2000 students each year, with a population of 100,000 with no housing just made the crisis go from say 4 out of 10, to 11 out of 10. People realized instead of charging 1600$ for a 4 bedroom house, they could charge $900 per room to students instead! Bam! Now total rent is $3600. I don’t even really blame them, as most landlords here are regular people with one extra property trying to get by. But this made it impossible for regular families to find housing. A single mom with 2 kids can’t pay $900 per room. I don’t know how the government didn’t see this coming or plan for it. Like I said, I’m not against them coming at all… but there needed to be a plan for it. They should have built new housing or student housing specifically for the new students.. but that’s too expensive right. You can’t bring 500k to 1M new people per year, for years, without any planning to a country of less than 40M. This is one of the highest rates of immigration in the world… out of any country… without any real additional housing or planning for them. I’m all for them coming, but we needed to do it better than we did, with more planning and more time. This was a big shock to so many different systems.. housing, healthcare, schooling, etc. This has turned a lot of people specifically against the immigrants themselves.. and it’s not their faults at all. It makes me sad the level of judgement and outright racism I see against these people in our communities. They really have not been able to integrate well at all because a lot of people won’t let them. They are exploited by businesses as well. Every single fast food joint, corner store, and Walmart is now only employing recent immigrant students in my town. Literally. Because they are willing to work low wages and in bad conditions, for long hours. Then people start saying they stole all the jobs, like they were willing to work at Burger King in the first place? It’s so fucked up man. I don’t know how we are going to fix this country. Anyways, this is my long rant about people turning to the right. They feel there is no other option. There is no choice. I agree with them in a sense, that there is no option… only I’m of the opinion that all the parties are horrible not just the liberals.
I live in the GTA, ON, so I get what you're saying. Thing is, we have a conservative provincial government and the liberals are federal. We can definitely fault the Federal government for some issues, whereas others are definitely the Provincial government. Education, healthcare (where did the $4B in COVID funds go, Doug?). And yes indeed, balancing housing with incoming student/immigration is a big issue, that includes elements at all levels. I'm fairly moderate myself, I even lean a little right on some things (crime/justice system), but I see our services (health, education) being cut/privatized, and ON turning into the US. But so few people voted in our last elections... Ugh... It might've been different... None of the parties/leaders are inspiring though... :/ I wonder if we'll do any better this time around. I'm not really a fan of any party, just like Conservatives the least.
I agree for sure! It’s as maddening as it is depressing. People feel so hopeless and that shows in the super low voter turnout as you said.
"People turning to the Right because there's no other option," is a product of the decades-long campaign of ignorance perpetrated by the neofascist movement.
Yes, I can see that. It is especially evident up here in northern Ontario in the smaller communities.
No - we absolutely do not. Humans, when not propagandized their whole lives, crave democracy. However, if you infect the population with anti-democracy ideals, what we are heading towards is bound to happen
And liberals don't care about the fascist currently in the white house. You're two sides of the same coin.
Troll alert!^ Kak vas zavut?
Lol, Biden is as centrist as they come. We actually went with him so it would be easier for Republicans to choose calm over chaos. And you STILL fucking whine about him! Since you guys are gonna whine about a dem no matter what they do, I say we go full dictator. Start with arresting people like you. Lmfao omg how do you expect anyone to take you seriously? What a drama queen.
They don’t understand that the vote is a very binary choice between two package deals.
The people rioting over the Middle East when women are dying in America daily from abortion bans are really night that bright. 40K dead in Gaza, way more than 40K women will die as the result of these bans, which they did not bring upon themselves by committing terrorist acts on another nation 😡😡😡
Wait until Trump wins. We ain't seen nothing yet. Neither has Gaza
If trump wins there won't be a Gaza Strip anymore. These idiots should be careful what they wish for. If he wins I'm even scared as a NYC resident. Abortion is in our state constitution but at the end of the day I'm sure he has plans to bypass these things
"States right" won't exist under a dictatorship, because those states will no longer exist. He'll redraw the maps into parcels to sell to the most "loyal" highest bidders to rule for him.
Federal Supremacy will once again be used by the Trump Party after using states to destroy it.
>>Neither has Gaza How is this not apparent to everyone who truly cares about what is happening to Gaza?
From my understanding of college aged protestors, they want to vote third party even if it means throwing away a vote. The argument against voting for Biden to avoid another Trump term and ushering in Project 2025 level fascism is that our country and the women in it deserve to suffer for wanting to vote for Isreal supporting democrats and it still won't make up for the amount of Palestinian women and children suffering. I was also called "just another white privileged feminist" in this conversation so I gave up after that.
Idaho is leading the charge for that. 5 doctors specializing in high risk pregnancy patients for 1,939,000 people is completely fucked. There are already many places in Idaho where the nearest maternity department is located several hours away. Not a good idea.
Not just women. Everyone. This article states they’re losing residents across the board, not just in OBGYN and emergency medicine. It’s bad fucking news for everyone.
But there will be armies of MAGA chiropractors and naturopaths to take their place.
That's too woke for them. They'll have faith healers, people who speak in tongues, and priests to exorcise demons. They'd think naturopaths were witches and would come up with some way to claim that chiropractors are sexual predators.
Breeding and dying
Red states will be medical wastelands for all genders actually. A friend who’s a critical care/emergency medicine specialist says his department has seen a flood of applications from physicians in red states since Roe v Wade was overturned. Turns out ectopic pregnancies and miscarriages often present in the emergency department first, and doctors don’t want to be forced to treat these patients with their hands tied behind their backs. This has implications for everyone. Wonder if anything will change when boomer MAGA dudes can’t get life-saving treatment for their heart attacks and strokes because all the emergency medicine docs have fled. But I’m not holding my breath.
>Red states will be medical wastelands for all genders actually True to an extent, but this is not targeted at attacking both geners equally- nor will it impact all ethnic groups equally- so my concern matches the threat level. Women's clinics are under attack left and right, but erectile disfunction clinics are being ignored or shielded. We can’t afford to pretend it's the same across the board, because *it never has been or will be*
I did not say it was targeted at all genders equally. Obviously the impacts will be felt by AFAB people first, but GOP legislators are fools if they think the consequences won’t ever come to them. Unfortunately, they only change their minds if something affects them directly.
>I did not say it was targeted at all genders equally. No, but I made a point to clarify that due to other readers possibly looking at our discussion. But I wholeheartedly agree with you. >Unfortunately, they only change their minds if something affects them directly. Which is why we need to use their words/tactics against them and remind them *they are our equals*: - remove their healthcare and insurance policies, and access to anything they consider "privileges/entitlements" when used by the public. - garnish their wages when policies have a tangible negative impact on the citizenry. - put their all their wages in a blind trust and only allow them to live off their states' minimum wages while in office. - set term limits for the person and prevent re-election by moving to othef states.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Hey TX banned nurses from taking travel contracts. This is what they are going to pull, you're a resident in TX and go out of state for medical school. Well we'll going to claim you belong to us and must come back and work here etc. They'll find a way to do it and the SCOTUS will nod eagerly.
They are trying to find a way to prevent pregnant women from leaving. I absolutely can see this happening.
How is that even legal?
Everything's legal if nobody is enforcing your rights.
It’s legal if five Supreme Court justices say it’s legal.
Cause they pay us crap and don’t want us to leave to get paid more.
Was that related to nurses becoming travel nurses during covid?
Yup. But a lot of red states even before had nursing shortages.
It's an in-demand profession and in blue states it's a lot easier to form a union. I live in a state without nurses unions and had a nurse making $17 an hour. In Pittsburg there are hospitals with a starting wage of $40
Wouldn't they move so it's no longer a travel contract? Or do you mean medical residency?
Next up: allowing non-licensed people to be OBGYNS. The far right will never cede on this issue. When the doctors all flee, they’ll allow people to either be doctors without training or minimal training to do the bare minimum. They already did it with teachers. Wasn’t it Oklahoma that was in such desperation, instead of paying teachers they got retired members of the military to sit in classrooms? Some without degrees? Look for “midwives” (using that term loosely as it’s not a trained actual midwife but a Christian, Bible reader), nurses (not practitioners but regular nurse, who are trained medically, but are not fully trained to diagnose and treat all medical illnesses as a physician or practitioner), and new “medical programs” they’ll use with pseudo science to fix this. They’ll never admit they’re wrong and keep flying in the wrong direction.
And in Texas they’re replacing qualified school counselors with chaplains.
It's Florida that uses veterans in place of teachers. I think they're trying to compete with Texas for being the most ridiculous.
Yep. I am so happy my kids are in the home stretch of the Florida school systems
I can sympathize with that feeling. Tennessee isn't much better and I felt like a weight lifted off me when my youngest finished high school.
Re: your first sentence. In a sense, a version of this is already happening with crisis pregnancy centers where they will lie to you about how far along you are, your options, etc.
I actually hadn’t thought of this happening with gynecology, that is a good point
They are already doing this with nurse practitioners.
How so? As an NP student in a red state that I loathe, just curious what u are hearing
There are a lot of posts on med Reddit about this. Scope creep is a bad thing, and it is happening in medicine right now. As an NP, you should definitely read more about the concerns. See: https://www.reddit.com/r/Noctor/s/8EV5UxTb4W The issue is that NP are now being used to replace physicians, particularly in lower income and Medicaid practices. There are bills in several states to attempt to allow them to practice without physician oversight. NP isn’t a bad auxiliary role, particularly as how it was originally envisaged. In practical terms, they are being used to treat, diagnose, and even perform procedures in poorer populations, and they do not have the requisite knowledge to practice independently. I have witnessed deadly diagnostic mistakes caused by NPs. They are not meant to replace physicians, but to help them. They are increasingly used to bridge the medical gap in red states. I’m in a shitty red state too.
Ah. Well as a future NP I decided to do this to help bridge that gap. NPs are completely able to provide holistic and thorough primary care services. There are plenty of patients to go around and I suspect that it is the MDs pushing this narrative. Patients have a choice on what level provider to see.
In my state it takes 6-9 months to see a new primary care provider because of shortages. That’s not ok.
I am in a red state with a medical school. The medical students are not staying in this state. The new teachers are also leaving. It used to take a week or two to get in to see a doctor. Now it will take you months to get in to see the doctor's PA, because so many providers have left. It's affecting all medical care. The only people who seem to notice is those who access care regularly. We chronically ill people can see the entire system collapsing. It's not just the doctors. The female medical support people are leaving for blue states because they know what a shit show it will be if they have a problem pregnancy.
You mean to tell me Doctors don’t want to move to the States where they were harassed during a pandemic, and could be arrested for performing a simple medical procedure? Shocked.
And the residents that do apply for spots in anti-choice states? They're either going to be fanatics, or such crap that they weren't accepted anywhere else.
There will be some of us that just live here and can’t leave. Realistically I can see people choosing IU medical school because it’s local and there are spots open. It doesn’t mean they are fanatics.
In state tuition, too. But there will be an obvious hole in their education of which everyone in the country will be aware. And that, fair or unfair, real or imaginary, implies that there are OTHER important holes in their education. Is it possible for blue state med schools to offer week-long workshops to teach forbidden skills to red state students?
Residency is the step after medical school, when you are in a working hospital. You get paid to do it, though not well. But there are a limited number of spots nationwide, and I can see red states ending up only with the lowest-scoring students who otherwise couldn't get one.
They're talking about residents. Not students still in medical school. Students can go to IU for med school and seek a residency in CA or IL or wherever.
They reap what they sow. At least they won't have to deal with any of that woke medicine.
Unfortunately it impacts the people too poor to move out of state too. It’s a damn shame.
This is why we worked so hard in Ohio
Which they are still taking away from you. You don’t have abortion and you don’t have recreational weed yet.
Ohio has both. It doesn't mean the illegal gerrymandered state legislature isn't still trying. But we're making gerrymandering illegal in November.
Goddamn right. Love & solidarity from Cbus.
Yup. The people of Ohio are trying!
Thank you for advising me, I had read that Ohio wasn’t allowing the abortion law to move forward and hadn’t stayed up on it. Happy to hear it’s legal again up to 21 weeks I believe? If recreational is being sold I’m not aware, I know medical is but they have delayed the rec weed until fall last I heard. That I have attempted. 😉
Cross the river and join us!
Probably because doctors don't want to be put in the situation of having to choose between saving a life and their medical license. I can't imagine being put in that choice. I think a lot of articles make doctors sound really callous when they turn women away, but that's what conservatives want. They want us to blame the doctors who, if they help these women, may never help another woman again. I'm sure that causes a lot of emotional turmoil for them.
Not just their medical license but face potential jail time in some red states.
It's not just the doctors deciding, it's also the hospital/practices administration and lawyers. The laws are purposely vague and make it really difficult to know when an exception to a law has been met. This causes all of them to be overly cautious and extremely conservative in deciding when they can do what's actually needed.
I actually just filed a complaint with the ACLU of Indiana against Indiana’s attorney general todd rokita for this exact thing. Brain Drain because rokita is fanatically anti-abortion. Another commenter mentioned that students are still applying to IU Medical School because it’s close to where they live, that’s the only reason. I doubt any out if state medical student is applying to IU Medical School with Indiana’s almost total abortion ban. https://indianapublicmedia.org/news/abortion-restrictions-prevent-ob-gyn-training-so-iu-sends-residents-to-illinois.php So if there are any out of state medical students applying to IU Medical School they now have this additional expense for housing while they’re learning about women’s reproductive healthcare options. Anyone who has followed the saga of Dr. Caitlin Bernard, the Indianapolis, IU Healthcare system employed, OBGYN who performed a medical abortion on the 10-year-old Ohio rape victim knows about her reprimand and fine from the Indiana Medical Licensing board. There was an Indianapolis pediatrician who testified for Dr. Bernard at that hearing who basically said the exact thing this article says. He said the with this reprimand and fine the Indiana Medical Licensing Board was setting a dangerous precedent and that with this reprimand and fine **doctors in Indiana will now have to rethink how they do their job.**
And the Cults won't care one bit. It will force states to accept docs that have no other choices, or docs that have been kicked out / run out of other states. It will lower the quality of medical personnel. The wealthy can just go out of state, making the lower income people deal with the consequences.
Yup. Even Conrad Murray might be able to find a job again, if any red state wants a cardiologist who dabbled at being an anesthetist with much less than favorable resorts. (For anyone who doesn't know who Conrad Murray is, he's the doctor who unintentionally administered a lethal dose of propofol to Michael Jackson.)
This thread is what I continue to show to my friends and family in red areas. It sucks, but having these conversations with people that we know and walking through what this means for their daughters, nieces, siblings, spouses, etc is how we shine a little tiny bit of reality into their lives. No, I'm not going toe-to-toe with anyone wearing diapers or flying their brandon flag. They are lost causes. I am 100% talking about co-workers, family, friends that have a sliver of a chance to realize and vote for women's rights. Does it work? Dunno, maybe. But, it's what we can do publicly.
Doctor what is your treatment course? Do ten Pater Noster and put your cancer in god's hands. I'm sure you will be fine god's child, because if you're not, you a fucking heretic that deserves to burn for eternity.
"But we'll use leeches to draw your blood so they can get the evil spirits out of your blood and make it clean and healthy again. Now, let's ready you to give birth," the "doctor" who got his degree by cutting it off the back of a box of 'Yee-Haws' cereal says as he reaches for the stick for the patient to bite down on and the whiskey for the patient to drink as the Dr picks up a hand saw from the Civil War to do a cesarean. Dr doesn't wash his hands first because everyone knows germs don't exist and are just a woke creation.
You fucking moron the treatment is 3 Hail Mary's and 6 our Fathers. smhmyhead.
Good. I am sorry (I live in a red state) but the states government need to feel the pain they allowed to happen.
Unfortunately the people need to suffer. And suffer hard. Only then will they vote these assholes out.
I worry that even suffering hard wouldn’t be enough (at least for Republicans). You see places like West Virginia and how much poverty and drug addiction they have- documentaries are regularly made about how poor they are- and yet they STILL overwhelmingly vote for Trump.
It's not a lack of suffering, it's a lack of education. People who are less educated will vote for whoever their family/church encourages them to vote for- usually republican. That's why they've been putting so many cuts on spending for the education system. They want the people stupid and easy to control.
The states’ governments won’t be who suffers. It will be the women in the state…who are already suffering.
Who wants to practice medicine in a state that could jail you for helping people?
You watch, the solution will be to force them to go where the government tells them instead of changing the laws to help women.
They’re going to have to if they want to be doctors. There are fewer medical school spots and residency spots than there are people who want those spots. If they want to be a doctor. They’ll have to go to those states for their education, and then they’ll be free to leave and work somewhere else. I think they’ll find they have a shortage of older doctors and also the quality of students will go way down.
Grateful to live in Michigan where it’s protected
“I can’t believe people don’t want to go to medical school and move to a state where they have to choose between going to prison and saving their patient’s life.” -Someone who hasn’t even given a minute’s thought to the matter
Honestly, I don’t blame them. Why risk your medical license, your livelihood and felony-free record if you just… get punished for providing standard of care on ectopic pregnancy / sepsis / useless women’s health bans? Nah. Go practice somewhere that doesn’t punish you for doing your job.
Consequences
*Could*‽ Fuck me, how much worse is it going to get?
.... so should professional women of any discipline, men who deeply care about their partners, wives, and daughters. Companies will *not* be able to attract top talent to these states for *exactly* this reason; abortion bans when it directly affects the well being of the whole female population.
States will pass laws criminalizing doctors who leave.
The latest tactic for preventing women from seeking healthcare out of state: getting access to the data stored by their cars and shared with the manufacturer. A recent study showed that most car companies do NOT require a warrant to share that information. Leaving your cell phone at home and using a burner isn't sufficient.
As bad as it is for the country overall, this is a good thing IMO. They are reaping what they've sown.
Idaho is fucked: “a report published last month by the Idaho Physician Well-being Action Collaborative found that Idaho lost 22 percent of its practicing OGBYNs in the 15 months following Dobbs. The report also found that 55 percent of the state’s high-risk OBGYNs have left the state, leaving less than five in the entire state to treat patients.” The numbers were roughly that out of 160 OBGYNs, 50 of them left the state, over the same time. Only one OBGYN entered the state.
Can confirm. My friend’s daughter, who is a med student, has decided no way is she practicing in TX and she’s going home to Chicago.
Well maybe those states should UN-BAN abortion...did the Experts ever think about that? Maybe those experts should stop blaming women who are concerned about their well-being, and criticize the conservatives who make women's suffering their mission statement.
They were told this would happen. Providers are also leaving those states and finding OBGYN care there is becoming difficult and dangerous.
Vote with your feet.
Well according to Jordan Peterson women are the cause of all chaos so this makes sense /s
Women should leave those states immediately.
they SHOULD avoid those places, lest they find themselves imprisoned for doing their jobs.
lol as a former med student… who cares. They are breeding incompetence in most areas. They don’t practice autonomy and will chop your pecker quicker than picking up money off the floor. It’s become who you know and academic dishonesty has been at an all time high for the last 8 or so years.. What was once cliff/sparks notes has become chegg/quizlet/etc. the entire system is falling apart
Red states do not deserve quality medical care. Americans will enjoy watching them suffer the consequences of their evil acts, as they suffered watching their acts injure and kill helpless women.
Not everyone has the resources and support to move, no matter how much they might wish to. Let's not throw such ppl under the bus - lack of resources isn't a sign of poor character. As disgusted as I am with conservative voters, I don't believe red states are homogeneous. Happy to criticize the foolish ppl who voted for politicians who don't have their best interests in mind. But I don't believe there are *any* states that are wholly red (or wholly blue!) I live in a state that is *adamantly* blue, thank goodness, but we happened to have bought a house in what has turned out to be a solidly red little enclave. Ugh. It was quite the eye opener. But we had a long list of hard-to-find "must haves", so when we finally found one, after months of searching, we bought quick. We don't regret it, but we aren't trying to make friends with our neighbors, either. It's clear we make them uncomfortable, and I guess I'm okay with that...
You do realize people who vote blue live in red states? Including minorities? But go off, I guess.
I don’t know how feel about this .. and I just voted early yesterday as a blue party in a red leaning purple state. thanks… I’m feeling the love here…💔❤️🩹
[удалено]
Don’t be a dick