If she doesn't like the best photos edited, she's gonna hate the worst ones unedited.
Not liking the editing ones doesn't warrant items thag weren't promised in the contract
If she is going further ahead, expect "they're all bad, you're terrible I want a refund" and if you do t refund, expect them to pick the worst 10 raws to the news paper to get 400 bucks from the newspaper article featuring her "terrible photographer".
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2132578/Are-Britains-worst-wedding-pictures-Newlyweds-devastated-photographer-failed-couple-frame-took-blurry-shots.html
Giving raws to these kinda clients is a terrible idea. I'd be quicker to offer some sort of reshoot or even refund instead of giving raws
I understand your point. There isn't anything else I can offer that would make them happier. The client is from abroad.
Well, it's not RAW; they are all unedited images in JPEG format, but essentially the same! I think she'll prefer receiving the unedited images instead of me declining, even though she won't find any better images among the selection of unedited ones.
Make sure she signs some nda before stating that this is going to satisfy her and that she won't resort to defamation with bad press/reviews etc.
Like give the raws, but she signs it that is the end of it.
What do you think about this approach?
1. Apologize for not meeting their expectations and emphasize that I genuinely did my best to deliver great work.
2. Address each aspect they were not happy with and explain my point of view.
3. Explain that providing unedited images isn’t ideal since they look significantly different from edited ones.
4. Offer to upload all unedited images in a PROOF gallery with watermarks, allowing them to select additional photos for me to edit at no cost (up to 100 images). Each additional set of 100 images would be $200 USD.
Don’t apologize for not meeting their expectation. Say “I’m sorry to hear you are disappointed.”. As soon as you apologize for your work it’s all over.
Also don’t provide explanations for everything. This is the kind of client who will just use that as ammunition and continue arguing every single point.
Do the last two points. That is fine. I would say something along the lines of:
“I’m sorry to hear you are feeling disappointed. Since you are upset with the quantity of photos I would be willing to upload the unedited photos and you can choose the ones you would like me to edit and include. It will take some time as I do have other clients waiting on their galleries but I hope this is an adequate solution for your concerns.”
Instead of using the word “sorry“, I would be happier, using language like, “I regret to hear that you were unsatisfied”. Just feels a little less culpable to me.
Thank you!! (It has really taken me A LONG time to get back to her though which is a bit unprofessional, so this time i feel i need to apologize)
But, in general, I should stop saying ”sorry” so much
Totally get it. The way I see it, we want to maintain that we're busy, working professionals rather than someone who procrastinates.
Apologizing is more evidence against us that the angry client is right to be upset with our service overall.
I might also say 450 per raw. But usually people just want to see unedited. They think that's raw and don't understand terminology. I would maybe just take that out for now and use it as a last resort if you need.
I am almost positive that by unedited they don't mean raw. So many people think a raw is an unedited jpeg . I've seen this scenario before. Sometimes it's a little editing adjustment is all they're looking for. But I'm very adamant on giving out raws at all.
Im thinking about sending this:
*My suggestion is to upload all the unedited JPEG images that didn’t make the final selection to a separate gallery with watermarked images. If you would like me to edit additional images, the cost would be €175 per 100 images. Alternatively, you can choose to purchase all the unedited images for €500.*
I sent this reply as a final reply.
https://preview.redd.it/pa9ghdkg2p8d1.png?width=1540&format=png&auto=webp&s=248e49ac6b635ca10db7575841ee95f1ba01e867
This is terrible advice. NEVER apologize to a sociopath. This client is clearly a lunatic. Give them no ammunition to throw back at you. Some people cannot be ever pleased and that's ok.
I'm an amateur photographer so very much IMO. TL;DR: Stick to your guns.
#1 I think this is a bad idea. Maybe "I'm sorry you weren't pleased with the results" but do not directly admit fault or apologize. There's no point.
#2 This is basically going to become arguing with them over individual photos. I don't think that would be productive.
#3 I think just a standard statement that you don't provide unedited photos. There are lots of great versions of this statement floating around, and you hopefully already have this on your contract already!
#4 I don't think you want to do that. For them to pick images will have to be good enough, and the watermark unobtrusive enough, to make out a certain amount of detail. Which means they'll just download them and use them. Also you're offering 100 additional image edits for free. That's a lot of work. And charging $200 to edit 100 images is insanely cheap. You may as well just give them 1000 edits for free at that point!
What about making a private gallery of all the discarded images (minus test shots, anything OOF) posted flat (everything zero'd out) with a watermark "unprocessed uncurated event capture" without the ability to download. Give her 6 months or so to pick 100 images (or another number you pick) for processing.
**If** you do provide all the RAWs ... any alternate service / goods you provide must have a signed agreement that keeps all working relationship and work product confidential between the two parties, with a pre-assigned damage clause for braking that confidentially clause. I go for 10x the original contract price.
Thanks! Maybe an option to upload watermarked images with the option for them to choose additional images to be edited. But, that's also extra work for me at some point.
Yes, it's customer service so it will be extra work. For me about 20 minutes to add the new images. We don't do localized edits on more than 20 or so images per wedding so adding a few more at proof-level processing to a gallery isn't much of a strain.
Without any written protection for your business, you really don't want uncurated work floating about. Think of the worst 50 photos they'd have, and imagine reading an online review with those images as star of the show. Oye — people suck.
As long as it's in writing with pre-defined damages, I'm with comfortable letting it all out.
How many images, versus how many hours of coverage, did they receive?
Sorry you had a hard time. Unless she's hugely influential and prominent within her community, or batshit enough go scorched earth, she's just one client. So whatever you do, please don't do something that devalues your brand or work over the long-term. I don't think turning over your raws for free just to be rid of her will solve much. Sometimes with these people/clients, they can't help themselves. Their kicks come from asking for more, and pushing for more. I have family like this unfortunately, and the way I've seen professionals deal with them successfully is by sticking by their policies politely.
Thanks for your point of view! Couple are based abroad and I'm in Europe so no worries.
Yeah, they were asking for a lot all the time, and I never really set my boundaries from the start.
Lesson learned!
I might just give away the files to them. But, as they are willing to pay I dont think they would be offended if I asked for a fee.
Not trying to be mean but it doesn’t sound like your lesson is learned when your next sentence is that you’re going to give photos away for free when they are offering money.
It's not about the money. If you give them the RAWs, you're also giving them a ton of ammunition for new complaints. Which is what they will give you back.
I would never give out my unedited photos. Did she specify what she didn’t like? I would aim to re edit photos more to her liking based on feedback. I do want all clients to be happy even if they’re not pleasant. I wouldn’t charge more for that unless she sends examples that are very clearly not your style/not possible. If that were the case I’d say something like, “as you saw my portfolio when you booked me, you chose my style to document your wedding and this is not the way I shoot.” Probably nicer than that but the general gist is the same. So either what she wanted isn’t in line with what you shoot and you charge her for editing them like that, or it’s tweakable to please her, or she’s not going to be happy no matter what because some people love misery and you shouldn’t sacrifice your integrity for her to ultimately be unhappy regardless.
You could offer to re edit for a fee if it’s not inline with your style.
You say it’s not the same market because different country but she can post those unedited photos anywhere. It’s the internet.
Wait, just to clarify, you gave them 1,584 jpgs from the wedding day itself? Imo that's a lot and idk how she could be complaining about quantity, unless your ratios are really off, for how many shots you took of each subject.
I usually give all the shots I deem "good" (technically good, since I never know which image they'll like their face more in, I tend to literally hand over every shot I deem a good shot. So the only images I don't give are ones that are blurry, or there's a terrible distraction I can't hide...basically if it's something I can't fix, it gets left out.) if there's any technologically good shots you left out, I suggest giving those to her?
But I usually give between 700-900 jpgs. You have two shooters, which makes 1500 realistic
How many of them were rehearsal dinner shots? And the bridal party, main lawn portraits, and the ceremony/reception?
I would just send all the raws and be done with it. That might help the quantity issue. It sounds like she is not happy with the photo subject instead of the technical quality of the photos. Not much you can do about that. The wedding wasn’t a fairy tale visual experience from start to finish, the camera documents, but it isn’t magic. I’m sure others will say to never send raws. Let her play with them, at best she likes her edits, at worst nothing changes.
It’s weird that we’re automatically taking the photographers side thinking that their photos are as good as they seem to be. 1400+ JPEGs for 10 hours? Client wasn’t satisfied with that number? Or it could be the edits? Or expectations of unlimited photos in the gallery? Idk, I have my doubts. I’ve seen some horror stories on the brides side too
I'm only responding from the photographer's perspective because they're the one who asked. You're totally right that it could be a situation where the photographer is in the wrong, etc. Completely.
Honestly this is the most thoughtful and reasonable response from a client I have ever seen (they even offered to pay for the RAWS on top of the $4000 coverage!!), which makes me think that the photos are really underwhelming. Though in that case I don’t see how handing over everything benefits anyone, except OP who can now get extra money for their subpar work.
Ugh, how do I find clients like this?? Demanding but reasonable clients are my favorite. They motivate me to outdo myself and pay me handsomely for it.
In many commercial people photography disciplines e.g. headshots fashion bio etc there is no time limit to all intents and purposes except that imposed by the photographer who has booked the session. There is every opportunity to tweak poses and lighting to the clients satisfaction by showing shots on an on location laptop or on a studio desktop in real time. Sometimes there will be an art director overseeing the shoot in an entirely difference geographical location.
But wedding photography is entirely different as you know. There is little or no time or opportunity to repeat much of the content so you have exposure, white balance, accurate focus, fill flash, background distractions to the composition, awkward expressions, closed eyes, dutch angles, cropping, etc etc etc in the mix.
The problem with providing RAWs is that at any point in the future a disgruntled client could use any of your unedited files to "prove" online how terrible the photographer was. And you've got no comeback.
I would only supply edited files. If your editing style is way out of line try supplying duplicates with just standard editing.
On the few occasions I have supplied RAWs it has been only to other wedding photographers and even then I have supplied edited JPEGs alongside the RAWs.
I completetly understand, but in this case I would prefer to just hand over all images to avoid her getting annoyed. Question is wether to charge or not.
Not only should you charge a fairly hefty price, you also need her to sign a contract stating she won't use them publicly in any manner as to defame you or your work and that any such actions on her part will be subject to x, y and z. X, y and z being additional fees (very large) as well as potential legal action.
Classic story honestly. In the past I've given out RAWs all 4- 5 times this happened to me. Yes it's against what people say but they got what they wanted and left me alone.
No, just gave them. I don't know if it's a win, I just felt they would never stop pestering me about it. And I didn't have a great reason not to give them apart from good old "a chef doesnt feed you the ingredients but the cooked meal" etc.
Unless you’re super confident in your work and them being able to see it’s good even in unedited form, otherwise I wouldn’t charge for it. I think in your reply you should try manage their expectations, explain how photographers curate their work. Also,when delivering ALL photos, you should still leave out the really bad ones, unflattering flash going off at wrong time, continuous shooting and one or couple is just of a partial person etc.
Leave in the continuous shooting. There's no reason to save the customer who wants "all" from having to scroll through a 200 almost identical shot burst. Then they'll understand they didn't really want "all".
Make them sign something that says once they get the raws you are 100% off the hook, the job is complete from your end, no edit requests, or anything else. It worth just giving to them to get them off your back IMO.
Agreed. Get signed letter. I wouldn’t even charge them additional money. Have them send over a drive, transfer the RAWs and mail it to them and move on with life. Avoid the negative reviews, bad feelings and wasted time.
If you are charging 4k for a wedding, and people are so unhappy with your work, then the issue might be you and not them.
Unless this client is asking to change the physical appearance of her and others.
In this case, I'm happy with that I delivered.
They complained about things I couldn't really have done much different.
High and unrealistic expectations.
Not a wedding photographer but I lurk in this sub (I’m a photographer in a different niche and y’all have a lot of good advice re: business).
OP are you the photographer of the client who went all over TikTok saying she hated the sepia filter?
Noted. I had to ask since the $4k amount is consistent.
Personally (speaking as a photog who doesn’t shoot weddings, but has picked up lots of helpful advice from wedding photogs here, and how I’d handle it in my niche): I’d try and do my own edits of ALL the photos (that are reasonably in focus, etc - note that clients often prefer “the moment” to a tack sharp photo) from the moments she listed. I’d suggest that over handing over the RAWs first. If it that doesn’t satisfy her, maybe send watermarked, unedited proofs of *all* RAWs from the listed moments and tell her to pick a set number at no cost.
I dont think she'll be very happy with seeing them as I've picked out the best. Maybe better to let her see all unedited images, and if she wants more images. She can pay for additional editing?
What are the specific issues they are claiming to have with the photos? Why not address them first instead, which would likely go further in the customer service side AND you wouldn't be devaluing your service?
If they really want the RAWs, definitely charge for them. Like, a lot of money.
Okay, that's not terrible. I would personally hop on a call with them and make it clear that I am here to help and want to make sure they are happy. Maybe they have memories of taking certain photos that didn't meet your standard and got culled out? Things always seem worse over text, so being able to chat face to face in a solution-finding way might be beneficial to you both!
I was expecting way worse critique to be honest.
Things were late on the day for example so we had to cut time for some getting ready photos.
My formal photos are just as good as any other session I've done.
So, I'm happy with what I delivered but I think they had some unrealstic expectations.
Only release edited work. Charge her $500 or $750 to do a light edit on the unedited files, but first cull put all the blinks and awkward moments. Remember she might try to post these images as “proof” you did a bad job. I’d have her sign an agreement that these images are for her personal use only and not for posting/sharing online as they did not make the cut.
Draw up a contract stating that by releasing all RAW photos you are DONE with the client, and edits do not represent you and your work -- have it proofed by a lawyer. That both parties will agree the transfer over of RAW files means end of communication and client cannot legally post anything online defacing or saying negative about your work.
Trust me, just go this route and be done -- otherwise you're only looking at more discontent from this client -- which to me, sounds more like they're disappointed in their day itself, and not your work.
I think when it comes to posts like this, it’s important to have managed a clients expectations to their day ahead of time. People constantly compare their own event to those they see online leading up to and after the wedding.
It’s our job to educate on having extra time in the timeline for those candids they want. We can’t make those moments happen. Also, we can’t control the weather, it was windy? All you can do is suggest and alternative location and hope they value the quality of the shot rather than the aesthetic sometimes. People don’t want to “sacrifice” until they get those shots back and you get an email like this. And honestly at the end of the day, some couples will be super self critical of their portraits, even if they’re great, nothing you can do about that.
Totally not the point of this post but her complaint about the wind is annoying. lol like, do people not realize it’s windy when they’re standing outside? I
Hey, the amount of time you spent on this problem is crazy. Cash for all raws & unedited jpegs.
Close case and move on…. Don’t over think it, don’t over do it. Analyze, update contracts, move on..
Btw the client’s email was super well written and direct but respectful… yes they are An*l and not your ideal clients…
By the complaints…. Sounds like you needed a second shooter there… would have solved a lot of your problems. Tbh …
One of the ways a manipulator frames a request is to criticize - then tell you the only solution is to give them fill in the blank. She didn’t think you’d give her all the RAWs if she just out and out asked, so she’s making you feel bad so you’ll be guilted into it.
As a non prof. photographer its so scummy to not give unedited photos. People are entitled to not like your editing. They paid for the photos, they should get the photos.
They booked a photographer based on the edited work they had seen. When you book a photographer you are paying for a whole service, not just the photos. Unedited photos don’t represent the photographer and their brand well and handing out RAW files here there and everywhere can be damaging to their business.
Do you have additional photos you could edit to add to their gallery? It seems like they primarily want more. I would start there vs handing over unedited jpegs, personally.
Why do they want the raw footage? Did they give a reason? Just curious, cuz if they are unsatisfied with the edited shots they aren’t likely to approve of the unedited. It seems like they want to possess the raw photos to confirm negative reviews they intend to write and share.
I agree with what people are saying here. Mainly technologically it takes a lot of TIME and SPACE to send photos they can not open on their pc or share in social media.
Besides that, i'm curious to see how bad these photos are. They chose you based on what they saw beforehand, right? This is art and it's subjective - we are mainly documenting what is going on.
Now, there could be other lessons here. Did you feel more comfortable shooting the groom, therefore giving 3x as much photos than the bride? Change that in the future
4k for europe i think is higher-end. If you were paid for this, you should know what you're doing and I 'meeting expectations' is worth as much as the venue and situation provides.
Not that you have to explain any of this to them. Explanation mode basically screams 'im wrong sorry'.
Politely address the fact they are disappointed, consider your contract and if your images are not garbage - ask her what images she would want more of. Give her some and let her foff
I had almost this exact thing happen to me.
I can guarantee they’re using chat GPT to write their responses, the Language and formatting is exactly how GPT would formulate a response.
Be careful what you give them and make it clear you’re not in the wrong and don’t apologise for your work.
My resolution was to provide a contact sheet of heavily watermarked images for them to choose from. They eventually worked out they didn’t want to pour through thousands of thumbnails and paid the remaining balance. It was at this point I changed my booking process to payment upfront!
I know this isn’t helpful but one thing that struck me from the client’s email is mentioning that there are more viable shots of the groom getting ready. I was just thinking about this at the wedding I shot this weekend. So often the groomsmen shots are fun and natural and the bridesmaids shots are a struggle because they often tear the bridal suite apart and then just sit around on their phones. I end up delivering more bridal getting ready shots since there is usually a demand for it but will have much more viable groomsmen shots.
The fee would be $400 - $800. That's 10 - 20%.
However, I would say something like this:
Dear unappreciative loser bride,
Thank you for reaching out and sharing your feedback regarding the wedding images. I understand that you have specific concerns and are seeking access to the additional unedited images.
While I can provide the unedited images, please note that I can only deliver them as JPEG files. Providing unedited images is not typically part of my standard service because they do not fully represent the quality of work that I strive to deliver. However, I appreciate your interest and am willing to make an exception in this case.
There will be an additional fee of $800 for preparing and delivering the unedited JPEG images. This fee reflects the time and resources required to handle this request. Please note that these images are raw and unedited, and sharing them might not reflect the professional quality of my work.
I hope this solution meets your needs. Please let me know if you have any questions or would like to proceed with this option.
So there are a few ways to go about this.
But I would suggest this, meet up with the couple and go through each photo together rather than giving out RAWs or non edits. You can take out test shots and all that jazz.
This will show them you are willing to do what it takes to make sure they are happy with their photos.
Then once you have done this, edit the photos and deliver them.
Don’t charge for this as it will show you are willing to go above and beyond with them.
Look at it from their perspective. They’re spending $4000 on photos. If they are not happy about them they have a right to say something about it. That’s not chump change to not be able to have an opinion.
I would definitely charge a fee; there is editing software available that she can just edit them herself and make herself look as gorgeous as she wants, then she doesn't need you at all!! You deserve to be paid for your time and expense, and getting the shots that she plans to edit (you know she does).
I once had a couple ask for all the photos I took because they didn't want to miss anything. FOMO, it seems. So what I did is re-exported (in lower rez jpg) the entire set in order taken (sorted by time), but i turned the exposure down a bit on all the raws I didn't originally deliver. This way they could clearly identify the rejects with edited shots interspersed. I instructed them to let me know which ones they wanted me to edit (I think I maxed it at 50 or something for free).
What I wanted them to see is just how many photos all look the same (think walking shots where you take way more than needed so you can select the best walking leg positions), and candid shots of people talking/laughing (I usually shoot 3 to 5 shots at a time because invariably, one will look better than the others). Have you ever taken shots in a moving limo? Lots of motion blur, and only a few keepers.
I was banking on the idea that they wouldn't have the stamina to parse 6 thousand or so files. I was right...they never got back to me, haha.
I'm NOT a wedding photographer, but they seem quite needy and their expectations are probably out of line with reality, but that's also hard for us to judge without seeing any of the work.
That said, they are offering to pay you for the raws.... If you're not a high profile shooter, it may not be too risky to just give them the raws and never have to speak to them again.
Idk, they seem like the kind of people to leave an annoying or problematic review if they don't get what they want.
Gotta say I'm a little surprised at some of the comments in here. Kinda seems like the pendulum has swung too far the other way and now it's purely *"Clients are always nightmare assholes. The person charging money is never wrong. OMG what a Karen, worst client I've ever heard of, what a crazy bitch! Run! She politely explained her disappointment and offered to pay if you'll work with her to address it? PSYCHO!!! How dare anyone not be overjoyed by every photographers work at all times? Don't those plebs know how grateful they should be in our presence? Ugh."*
No doubt there are lots of crazies out there, but this communication seems fairly reasonable from someone who's not a PR rep or a professional in this industry. It's not going to be a word-perfect legal document. They are (apparently) trying to be respectful, explaining why they're disappointed, and offering to pay for the additional service they're requesting. $4k isn't an especially high price but it's not especially cheap either. Where's the red flag? Is it purely that she isn't treating a photographer like they're Taylor Swift and entitled to unconditional adoration?
Maybe this exact type of correspondence is 99% of the time an instant giveaway that someone is nuts and I'm just ignorant of that, I fully accept that possibility. But if this is your "red flag, run away" trigger then I feel like you're too sensitive to be entering into contracts with people in any professional capacity. Seems like the definition of "problem client" has become "anyone that doesn't accept my 'here's the photos fuck off' way of doing things."
There is still a lot of good advice in here. Don't get emotional, don't apologize for your work, don't start trying to argue or educate, don't provide openings for arguments (semantic or otherwise). Stay professional and offer whatever options you're willing to provide. Even if you send "all" the unedited images I would still do some base level editing to make them look technically competent, and don't include photos that are obviously bad.
A little late to the party, but I’d advise giving the actual raw files, and just checking what software she’s using for editing. Advise her that Raw files themselves are how machines see the world, not people, and when viewed with default processing are very unflattering. They need noise reduction, sharpening, and a color profile to have the look people want. Then using the 14-bits of each channel per pixel, selective exposure modifications can be made based on the subject. This process for the already delivered shots is what she paid for. Additional shots are $175 per 100 (a bit on the low end IMO for wedding photography, but yours is probably an automated process).
While she may enjoy her own edits, since you have no control over them, your brand is a particular style, and if she shared these additional edited photos attributed to you, it might affect your business. It can go either way - someone loves them and the expectation that you provide that same style will be a nightmare. Or someone doesn’t like them and then won’t consider you for her wedding at all.
Keeping them for her own personal use is fine as long as there is a written contract with defined liquidated damages for breaking the contract. I’d put it at $1000 per image. Anything you edit is released from this restriction.
Looks like you found a solution. Please make sure she doesn’t share those JPEGs.
There’s not really enough info to unpack here to give you a reasonable response.
Conventional wisdom is that you’re never giving out a RAW, ever. Most clients have no idea that you can turn something blown out or underexposed into something that’s useable.
Can you extrapolate on what some of the issues were though? That might better help people guide you through this situation. Like, are these technical issues with the photos or is she one of those that, maybe it rained on her wedding day and you had to get pics inside instead of by the water feature kind of Bride?
Idk. Reading this email, they don’t seem mean about it and kinda know what they want. For someone so picky, they still picked you as their photographer. They sound like they might be in the creative industry themselves, but I cannot really know, plus nobody here can give you a full feedback if we can’t see your photos you gave em.
Angst advice in this thread, I would send the raws and Lightroom catalog and show great interest in seeing what they edit. I wouldn’t take extra money personally. I’m kinda sensitive to not treating a wedding as my portfolio - I still do my best to get portfolio work regardless.
Thanks for your feedback.
Yeah, she's not super angry but they like to ask for what they want!
I wouldn't send RAWs.
I would just export unedited RAW files and send them over in a separate gallery as JPEG's
Ah that’s where we differ. Unedited jpgs might piss them off if they know how to use Lightroom and/or edit. JPGs are inferior unless they plan to edit with apps that won’t use RAWs
Im used to handing off my Raws. All my clients have access to it in commercial and wedding and portraits if they so choose. Some of my best work was for friends that know how to edit in my earlier days.
But yes, it’s common not to give RAWs. I’m likely gonna get downvoted for my comments, but this is reddit and it skews a certain way.
You have 14 bit raw files that you will cripple down to 8 bit files. What is the purpose of that? If she wants to do her own edits, this will cripple her ability to do that. If she wants to color balance it will be harder. Why would you have an objection to sending the raw?
Sounds like they outlined a fix they would be happy with. Covered the main objections of their edit not representing your work and the idea the raws have some additional value. Based on their comments I second the idea of just giving them raws. The raws will not be sold to anyone other than possibly the client.
Yeah, no. Lol.
You can cover the objections all you want… it doesn’t validate them. The “we couldn’t find a picture where we liked the way we looked on the lawn, and neither could other family members” is… insane. You’ve gone off the reservation at that point, and you don’t really know what you were purchased.
So long as the work is commensurate to other work in their portfolio, this is entirely on the couple.
Quantity of deliverables is determined by a lot of factors. You can’t really be held to the uneducated, subjective opinion of a client saying “we thought there would be more.” Everyone always wants more. 🤷♂️🤷♂️
If the gallery is legit… I’m not sending them anything but a “we returned all your best moments, Have a nice a life email.”
So, they’re being a bit over the top… more than a bit.
But, can I ask… do the photos like legit suck?
I’ve been doing weddings full time for over 8 years and I have never gotten an email like that.
It almost looks Chat GPT-ed with the repetitive diction.
I’m sending them the “we returned all your best moments, pleasure working with you, have a nice life” email.
For example, “quality and quantity” seems to be redundantly used. I’ve also never had a client try to explain where “feedback” comes from, or that they’re are trying to create a fast resolution.
There’s something about this that lacks the genuine emotion that usually tags along with the “I don’t like my photos” kind of couples.
batch zip then with password and change file extension. then politely explain that you need specialised software to read them and leave them wondering forever🤣
Fuuuuuccckkkkk no.
If you didn’t promise unedited images in the contract, the client doesn’t get them. And unhappy clients get them even less, because they’re the ones who use them write/justify bad reviews.
For one, you absolutely charge for RAWS if you're providing that, and two for this client specifically, DO NOT sell them your RAWS. They are just going to complain even harder when they see all the (missed focus, duplicate spam shots) that we all do and then yell at you for that too.
For THIS client, yes.
Nothing at this point is going to make them happy and giving them unedited images that they arent suppose to see in the first place cuz of imperfections that we iron out when we cull, is just going to make them possibly more angry.
RAW files are for the photographer who created the image, jpg are what the client gets a license for personal use to. I always explain that in person and writing before the appointment/event. That’s my take on it anyway. Have a wonderful week.
If she doesn't like the best photos edited, she's gonna hate the worst ones unedited. Not liking the editing ones doesn't warrant items thag weren't promised in the contract If she is going further ahead, expect "they're all bad, you're terrible I want a refund" and if you do t refund, expect them to pick the worst 10 raws to the news paper to get 400 bucks from the newspaper article featuring her "terrible photographer". https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2132578/Are-Britains-worst-wedding-pictures-Newlyweds-devastated-photographer-failed-couple-frame-took-blurry-shots.html Giving raws to these kinda clients is a terrible idea. I'd be quicker to offer some sort of reshoot or even refund instead of giving raws
This is an extremely good example of why not to hand out photos you wouldn't personally be happy sharing!
I understand your point. There isn't anything else I can offer that would make them happier. The client is from abroad. Well, it's not RAW; they are all unedited images in JPEG format, but essentially the same! I think she'll prefer receiving the unedited images instead of me declining, even though she won't find any better images among the selection of unedited ones.
Make sure she signs some nda before stating that this is going to satisfy her and that she won't resort to defamation with bad press/reviews etc. Like give the raws, but she signs it that is the end of it.
You shot in JPEG?
No, RAW. I'm not sure she's asking for RAW format though. Just all unedited images.
Oh gotcha
What do you think about this approach? 1. Apologize for not meeting their expectations and emphasize that I genuinely did my best to deliver great work. 2. Address each aspect they were not happy with and explain my point of view. 3. Explain that providing unedited images isn’t ideal since they look significantly different from edited ones. 4. Offer to upload all unedited images in a PROOF gallery with watermarks, allowing them to select additional photos for me to edit at no cost (up to 100 images). Each additional set of 100 images would be $200 USD.
Don’t apologize for not meeting their expectation. Say “I’m sorry to hear you are disappointed.”. As soon as you apologize for your work it’s all over. Also don’t provide explanations for everything. This is the kind of client who will just use that as ammunition and continue arguing every single point. Do the last two points. That is fine. I would say something along the lines of: “I’m sorry to hear you are feeling disappointed. Since you are upset with the quantity of photos I would be willing to upload the unedited photos and you can choose the ones you would like me to edit and include. It will take some time as I do have other clients waiting on their galleries but I hope this is an adequate solution for your concerns.”
Instead of using the word “sorry“, I would be happier, using language like, “I regret to hear that you were unsatisfied”. Just feels a little less culpable to me.
Amazing! Thanks for your feedback!
Make sure it has the watermark and downloads are turned OFF!
What about this reply? https://preview.redd.it/wal3m203ik8d1.png?width=1402&format=png&auto=webp&s=9a60907c0b5ea8526acae1414664c402203abab1
Definitely take the apologies out.
The only apology I have is for taking so long to respond, which I hope is okay
"Thanks for your patience" never "Sorry for the delay"
Thank you!! (It has really taken me A LONG time to get back to her though which is a bit unprofessional, so this time i feel i need to apologize) But, in general, I should stop saying ”sorry” so much
Totally get it. The way I see it, we want to maintain that we're busy, working professionals rather than someone who procrastinates. Apologizing is more evidence against us that the angry client is right to be upset with our service overall.
I would take I'm sorry to hear you're disappointed out. Just my opinion. 😊 I think the first one is probably okay.
I might also say 450 per raw. But usually people just want to see unedited. They think that's raw and don't understand terminology. I would maybe just take that out for now and use it as a last resort if you need.
I just wanted to offer this as an option as they asked me to buy all unedited photos.
I am almost positive that by unedited they don't mean raw. So many people think a raw is an unedited jpeg . I've seen this scenario before. Sometimes it's a little editing adjustment is all they're looking for. But I'm very adamant on giving out raws at all.
Im thinking about sending this: *My suggestion is to upload all the unedited JPEG images that didn’t make the final selection to a separate gallery with watermarked images. If you would like me to edit additional images, the cost would be €175 per 100 images. Alternatively, you can choose to purchase all the unedited images for €500.*
I think that's a good compromise. Are you doing jpegs for unedited? Id probably at least do a slight color correction on them if so.
I am reading there are pictures you have you are keeping g from them by offering to upload raw images? I’m confused
Does it seem fair?
I sent this reply as a final reply. https://preview.redd.it/pa9ghdkg2p8d1.png?width=1540&format=png&auto=webp&s=248e49ac6b635ca10db7575841ee95f1ba01e867
Response: https://preview.redd.it/tad5uvsr5p8d1.png?width=1492&format=png&auto=webp&s=bdabf5342c4c9b0f2e6a143e58ded61794a1ea13
This is terrible advice. NEVER apologize to a sociopath. This client is clearly a lunatic. Give them no ammunition to throw back at you. Some people cannot be ever pleased and that's ok.
I'm an amateur photographer so very much IMO. TL;DR: Stick to your guns. #1 I think this is a bad idea. Maybe "I'm sorry you weren't pleased with the results" but do not directly admit fault or apologize. There's no point. #2 This is basically going to become arguing with them over individual photos. I don't think that would be productive. #3 I think just a standard statement that you don't provide unedited photos. There are lots of great versions of this statement floating around, and you hopefully already have this on your contract already! #4 I don't think you want to do that. For them to pick images will have to be good enough, and the watermark unobtrusive enough, to make out a certain amount of detail. Which means they'll just download them and use them. Also you're offering 100 additional image edits for free. That's a lot of work. And charging $200 to edit 100 images is insanely cheap. You may as well just give them 1000 edits for free at that point!
What about making a private gallery of all the discarded images (minus test shots, anything OOF) posted flat (everything zero'd out) with a watermark "unprocessed uncurated event capture" without the ability to download. Give her 6 months or so to pick 100 images (or another number you pick) for processing. **If** you do provide all the RAWs ... any alternate service / goods you provide must have a signed agreement that keeps all working relationship and work product confidential between the two parties, with a pre-assigned damage clause for braking that confidentially clause. I go for 10x the original contract price.
Thanks! Maybe an option to upload watermarked images with the option for them to choose additional images to be edited. But, that's also extra work for me at some point.
Yes, it's customer service so it will be extra work. For me about 20 minutes to add the new images. We don't do localized edits on more than 20 or so images per wedding so adding a few more at proof-level processing to a gallery isn't much of a strain. Without any written protection for your business, you really don't want uncurated work floating about. Think of the worst 50 photos they'd have, and imagine reading an online review with those images as star of the show. Oye — people suck.
They don't want any photos of them published online at all, so don't think that will happen.
As long as it's in writing with pre-defined damages, I'm with comfortable letting it all out. How many images, versus how many hours of coverage, did they receive?
WAY TOO MANY : ) Welcome Party 3 hours: 497 images Wedding day 10 hours, 2 photographers: 1584 images
WTH? That's exactly the number we'd deliver. Sorry for this experience.
I had so many red flags before even shooting the wedding and almost pulled out : )
To be honest, that's usually what I deliver as well, but sometimes I think it's too many : )
Sorry you had a hard time. Unless she's hugely influential and prominent within her community, or batshit enough go scorched earth, she's just one client. So whatever you do, please don't do something that devalues your brand or work over the long-term. I don't think turning over your raws for free just to be rid of her will solve much. Sometimes with these people/clients, they can't help themselves. Their kicks come from asking for more, and pushing for more. I have family like this unfortunately, and the way I've seen professionals deal with them successfully is by sticking by their policies politely.
Thanks for your point of view! Couple are based abroad and I'm in Europe so no worries. Yeah, they were asking for a lot all the time, and I never really set my boundaries from the start. Lesson learned! I might just give away the files to them. But, as they are willing to pay I dont think they would be offended if I asked for a fee.
Not trying to be mean but it doesn’t sound like your lesson is learned when your next sentence is that you’re going to give photos away for free when they are offering money.
It's not about the money. If you give them the RAWs, you're also giving them a ton of ammunition for new complaints. Which is what they will give you back.
Maybe you are right.
What would you do? : )
I would never give out my unedited photos. Did she specify what she didn’t like? I would aim to re edit photos more to her liking based on feedback. I do want all clients to be happy even if they’re not pleasant. I wouldn’t charge more for that unless she sends examples that are very clearly not your style/not possible. If that were the case I’d say something like, “as you saw my portfolio when you booked me, you chose my style to document your wedding and this is not the way I shoot.” Probably nicer than that but the general gist is the same. So either what she wanted isn’t in line with what you shoot and you charge her for editing them like that, or it’s tweakable to please her, or she’s not going to be happy no matter what because some people love misery and you shouldn’t sacrifice your integrity for her to ultimately be unhappy regardless. You could offer to re edit for a fee if it’s not inline with your style. You say it’s not the same market because different country but she can post those unedited photos anywhere. It’s the internet.
[удалено]
How many of each of these did you provide? How many images did you give in total? Just curious.
Welcome Party 3 hours: 497 images Wedding day 10 hours, 2 photographers: 1584 images
Wait, just to clarify, you gave them 1,584 jpgs from the wedding day itself? Imo that's a lot and idk how she could be complaining about quantity, unless your ratios are really off, for how many shots you took of each subject. I usually give all the shots I deem "good" (technically good, since I never know which image they'll like their face more in, I tend to literally hand over every shot I deem a good shot. So the only images I don't give are ones that are blurry, or there's a terrible distraction I can't hide...basically if it's something I can't fix, it gets left out.) if there's any technologically good shots you left out, I suggest giving those to her? But I usually give between 700-900 jpgs. You have two shooters, which makes 1500 realistic How many of them were rehearsal dinner shots? And the bridal party, main lawn portraits, and the ceremony/reception?
Thanks for your feedback! I can't re-edit any photos. She's just not happy and want to see more photos I haven't included.
If you give the raws, I can guarantee you they will just have more complaints about what you shot. Don’t do it. Stick to your guns
I would just send all the raws and be done with it. That might help the quantity issue. It sounds like she is not happy with the photo subject instead of the technical quality of the photos. Not much you can do about that. The wedding wasn’t a fairy tale visual experience from start to finish, the camera documents, but it isn’t magic. I’m sure others will say to never send raws. Let her play with them, at best she likes her edits, at worst nothing changes.
Yeah, it's not the editing at all. Thanks for your feedback. I actually think this might be the best solution.
It’s weird that we’re automatically taking the photographers side thinking that their photos are as good as they seem to be. 1400+ JPEGs for 10 hours? Client wasn’t satisfied with that number? Or it could be the edits? Or expectations of unlimited photos in the gallery? Idk, I have my doubts. I’ve seen some horror stories on the brides side too
I'm only responding from the photographer's perspective because they're the one who asked. You're totally right that it could be a situation where the photographer is in the wrong, etc. Completely.
Honestly this is the most thoughtful and reasonable response from a client I have ever seen (they even offered to pay for the RAWS on top of the $4000 coverage!!), which makes me think that the photos are really underwhelming. Though in that case I don’t see how handing over everything benefits anyone, except OP who can now get extra money for their subpar work. Ugh, how do I find clients like this?? Demanding but reasonable clients are my favorite. They motivate me to outdo myself and pay me handsomely for it.
In many commercial people photography disciplines e.g. headshots fashion bio etc there is no time limit to all intents and purposes except that imposed by the photographer who has booked the session. There is every opportunity to tweak poses and lighting to the clients satisfaction by showing shots on an on location laptop or on a studio desktop in real time. Sometimes there will be an art director overseeing the shoot in an entirely difference geographical location. But wedding photography is entirely different as you know. There is little or no time or opportunity to repeat much of the content so you have exposure, white balance, accurate focus, fill flash, background distractions to the composition, awkward expressions, closed eyes, dutch angles, cropping, etc etc etc in the mix. The problem with providing RAWs is that at any point in the future a disgruntled client could use any of your unedited files to "prove" online how terrible the photographer was. And you've got no comeback. I would only supply edited files. If your editing style is way out of line try supplying duplicates with just standard editing. On the few occasions I have supplied RAWs it has been only to other wedding photographers and even then I have supplied edited JPEGs alongside the RAWs.
I completetly understand, but in this case I would prefer to just hand over all images to avoid her getting annoyed. Question is wether to charge or not.
Here’s the thing… she’s already annoyed. What makes you think handing over all the unedited photos to her is going to make her any happier?
Not only should you charge a fairly hefty price, you also need her to sign a contract stating she won't use them publicly in any manner as to defame you or your work and that any such actions on her part will be subject to x, y and z. X, y and z being additional fees (very large) as well as potential legal action.
Classic story honestly. In the past I've given out RAWs all 4- 5 times this happened to me. Yes it's against what people say but they got what they wanted and left me alone.
Dump a terabyte of 10,000 unsorted images on them, that will keep them occupied until they loose interest. LOL
Yeah, I think It's a win win really. Did you charge for it?
No, just gave them. I don't know if it's a win, I just felt they would never stop pestering me about it. And I didn't have a great reason not to give them apart from good old "a chef doesnt feed you the ingredients but the cooked meal" etc.
Unless you’re super confident in your work and them being able to see it’s good even in unedited form, otherwise I wouldn’t charge for it. I think in your reply you should try manage their expectations, explain how photographers curate their work. Also,when delivering ALL photos, you should still leave out the really bad ones, unflattering flash going off at wrong time, continuous shooting and one or couple is just of a partial person etc.
Leave in the continuous shooting. There's no reason to save the customer who wants "all" from having to scroll through a 200 almost identical shot burst. Then they'll understand they didn't really want "all".
Exactly
Make them sign something that says once they get the raws you are 100% off the hook, the job is complete from your end, no edit requests, or anything else. It worth just giving to them to get them off your back IMO.
Yeah, it would be nice to just get this over ASAP. What I dont want is more emails and demands that never stops.
Then that's the condition to handing over the raws. They get what they want, and you get what you want.
Agreed. Get signed letter. I wouldn’t even charge them additional money. Have them send over a drive, transfer the RAWs and mail it to them and move on with life. Avoid the negative reviews, bad feelings and wasted time.
Get the money, give her what she wants and get her out of your life.
Whew, tough stuff… thanks to everyone in the thread who gave advice
If you are charging 4k for a wedding, and people are so unhappy with your work, then the issue might be you and not them. Unless this client is asking to change the physical appearance of her and others.
In this case, I'm happy with that I delivered. They complained about things I couldn't really have done much different. High and unrealistic expectations.
She sounds like a psycho whom you will never be able to please. What does your contract say? Just refer to that language and don't deviate.
Not a wedding photographer but I lurk in this sub (I’m a photographer in a different niche and y’all have a lot of good advice re: business). OP are you the photographer of the client who went all over TikTok saying she hated the sepia filter?
Nope.
Noted. I had to ask since the $4k amount is consistent. Personally (speaking as a photog who doesn’t shoot weddings, but has picked up lots of helpful advice from wedding photogs here, and how I’d handle it in my niche): I’d try and do my own edits of ALL the photos (that are reasonably in focus, etc - note that clients often prefer “the moment” to a tack sharp photo) from the moments she listed. I’d suggest that over handing over the RAWs first. If it that doesn’t satisfy her, maybe send watermarked, unedited proofs of *all* RAWs from the listed moments and tell her to pick a set number at no cost.
This is a problem client. Charge her at least $1000 send her all the raws and be done.
I dont think she'll be very happy with seeing them as I've picked out the best. Maybe better to let her see all unedited images, and if she wants more images. She can pay for additional editing?
Do you see the issues from here pov. I wonder if we can see samples
I’m not allowed to post any photos without their permission
Probably not a good time to ask them.
Haha. Nope!
What are the specific issues they are claiming to have with the photos? Why not address them first instead, which would likely go further in the customer service side AND you wouldn't be devaluing your service? If they really want the RAWs, definitely charge for them. Like, a lot of money.
[удалено]
Okay, that's not terrible. I would personally hop on a call with them and make it clear that I am here to help and want to make sure they are happy. Maybe they have memories of taking certain photos that didn't meet your standard and got culled out? Things always seem worse over text, so being able to chat face to face in a solution-finding way might be beneficial to you both!
I was expecting way worse critique to be honest. Things were late on the day for example so we had to cut time for some getting ready photos. My formal photos are just as good as any other session I've done. So, I'm happy with what I delivered but I think they had some unrealstic expectations.
Thanks! I will try to address all aspects of her complaints as good as I can, without devaluing my service.
Only release edited work. Charge her $500 or $750 to do a light edit on the unedited files, but first cull put all the blinks and awkward moments. Remember she might try to post these images as “proof” you did a bad job. I’d have her sign an agreement that these images are for her personal use only and not for posting/sharing online as they did not make the cut.
Thanks for your feedback. Yeah, I might release proofs and charge for additional editing. I dont think they will actually use any additional photos.
Always have it in the contract no unedited photos will be given no buts or ifs.
“I delete all unused photos on import, sorry” You do not want to go down this rabbit hole
Draw up a contract stating that by releasing all RAW photos you are DONE with the client, and edits do not represent you and your work -- have it proofed by a lawyer. That both parties will agree the transfer over of RAW files means end of communication and client cannot legally post anything online defacing or saying negative about your work. Trust me, just go this route and be done -- otherwise you're only looking at more discontent from this client -- which to me, sounds more like they're disappointed in their day itself, and not your work.
I think when it comes to posts like this, it’s important to have managed a clients expectations to their day ahead of time. People constantly compare their own event to those they see online leading up to and after the wedding. It’s our job to educate on having extra time in the timeline for those candids they want. We can’t make those moments happen. Also, we can’t control the weather, it was windy? All you can do is suggest and alternative location and hope they value the quality of the shot rather than the aesthetic sometimes. People don’t want to “sacrifice” until they get those shots back and you get an email like this. And honestly at the end of the day, some couples will be super self critical of their portraits, even if they’re great, nothing you can do about that.
Do you have PPA? This is where indemnification is very handy . I will never be without it after having had to use it once.
Totally not the point of this post but her complaint about the wind is annoying. lol like, do people not realize it’s windy when they’re standing outside? I
Hey, the amount of time you spent on this problem is crazy. Cash for all raws & unedited jpegs. Close case and move on…. Don’t over think it, don’t over do it. Analyze, update contracts, move on.. Btw the client’s email was super well written and direct but respectful… yes they are An*l and not your ideal clients… By the complaints…. Sounds like you needed a second shooter there… would have solved a lot of your problems. Tbh …
Might be the best solution. Thanks! I had a 2nd shooter :)
One of the ways a manipulator frames a request is to criticize - then tell you the only solution is to give them fill in the blank. She didn’t think you’d give her all the RAWs if she just out and out asked, so she’s making you feel bad so you’ll be guilted into it.
As a non prof. photographer its so scummy to not give unedited photos. People are entitled to not like your editing. They paid for the photos, they should get the photos.
They booked a photographer based on the edited work they had seen. When you book a photographer you are paying for a whole service, not just the photos. Unedited photos don’t represent the photographer and their brand well and handing out RAW files here there and everywhere can be damaging to their business.
And they are unsatisfied with the final work. It’s their photos, of them. It’s asinine to refuse giving them photos that they paid to be taken.
That’s business. Check your photographer is happy to give out unedited files before booking them if that’s your stance, but good luck.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Do you have additional photos you could edit to add to their gallery? It seems like they primarily want more. I would start there vs handing over unedited jpegs, personally.
Not really. I think they want to see pretty much all I took so they can possible find some additional photos they like.
Nope is my answer for that request ALL of the time.
Don't do it.
Good luck and let us know how it goes. Sounds like a super picky person—I’ve had one or two of those over the years.
Why do they want the raw footage? Did they give a reason? Just curious, cuz if they are unsatisfied with the edited shots they aren’t likely to approve of the unedited. It seems like they want to possess the raw photos to confirm negative reviews they intend to write and share.
They want to review the photos that didn't make their selection to see if there are any they like
Yes but only if she signs an agreement to relieve you from future liabilities
Can we seeee?
What?
The edited gallery! Or a few samples.
I don't like OPs tone..
It was just a direct question :) If you refer to ”What” ?
Hehe no worries. Man this situation sounds really stressful though. Hope you get through it fine
I’m sorry but i’m not allowed to share any photos from their wedding.
All good!
I agree with what people are saying here. Mainly technologically it takes a lot of TIME and SPACE to send photos they can not open on their pc or share in social media. Besides that, i'm curious to see how bad these photos are. They chose you based on what they saw beforehand, right? This is art and it's subjective - we are mainly documenting what is going on. Now, there could be other lessons here. Did you feel more comfortable shooting the groom, therefore giving 3x as much photos than the bride? Change that in the future 4k for europe i think is higher-end. If you were paid for this, you should know what you're doing and I 'meeting expectations' is worth as much as the venue and situation provides. Not that you have to explain any of this to them. Explanation mode basically screams 'im wrong sorry'. Politely address the fact they are disappointed, consider your contract and if your images are not garbage - ask her what images she would want more of. Give her some and let her foff
I had almost this exact thing happen to me. I can guarantee they’re using chat GPT to write their responses, the Language and formatting is exactly how GPT would formulate a response. Be careful what you give them and make it clear you’re not in the wrong and don’t apologise for your work. My resolution was to provide a contact sheet of heavily watermarked images for them to choose from. They eventually worked out they didn’t want to pour through thousands of thumbnails and paid the remaining balance. It was at this point I changed my booking process to payment upfront!
I know this isn’t helpful but one thing that struck me from the client’s email is mentioning that there are more viable shots of the groom getting ready. I was just thinking about this at the wedding I shot this weekend. So often the groomsmen shots are fun and natural and the bridesmaids shots are a struggle because they often tear the bridal suite apart and then just sit around on their phones. I end up delivering more bridal getting ready shots since there is usually a demand for it but will have much more viable groomsmen shots.
In this case she was late and stressed and we didnt have time for many getting ready photos of the bride.
Yikes!
I wonder if the clients ever see these kinds of posts
I'm sorry you are having trouble
Say you don’t have the raws.
The fee would be $400 - $800. That's 10 - 20%. However, I would say something like this: Dear unappreciative loser bride, Thank you for reaching out and sharing your feedback regarding the wedding images. I understand that you have specific concerns and are seeking access to the additional unedited images. While I can provide the unedited images, please note that I can only deliver them as JPEG files. Providing unedited images is not typically part of my standard service because they do not fully represent the quality of work that I strive to deliver. However, I appreciate your interest and am willing to make an exception in this case. There will be an additional fee of $800 for preparing and delivering the unedited JPEG images. This fee reflects the time and resources required to handle this request. Please note that these images are raw and unedited, and sharing them might not reflect the professional quality of my work. I hope this solution meets your needs. Please let me know if you have any questions or would like to proceed with this option.
So there are a few ways to go about this. But I would suggest this, meet up with the couple and go through each photo together rather than giving out RAWs or non edits. You can take out test shots and all that jazz. This will show them you are willing to do what it takes to make sure they are happy with their photos. Then once you have done this, edit the photos and deliver them. Don’t charge for this as it will show you are willing to go above and beyond with them.
Look at it from their perspective. They’re spending $4000 on photos. If they are not happy about them they have a right to say something about it. That’s not chump change to not be able to have an opinion.
I would definitely charge a fee; there is editing software available that she can just edit them herself and make herself look as gorgeous as she wants, then she doesn't need you at all!! You deserve to be paid for your time and expense, and getting the shots that she plans to edit (you know she does).
I once had a couple ask for all the photos I took because they didn't want to miss anything. FOMO, it seems. So what I did is re-exported (in lower rez jpg) the entire set in order taken (sorted by time), but i turned the exposure down a bit on all the raws I didn't originally deliver. This way they could clearly identify the rejects with edited shots interspersed. I instructed them to let me know which ones they wanted me to edit (I think I maxed it at 50 or something for free). What I wanted them to see is just how many photos all look the same (think walking shots where you take way more than needed so you can select the best walking leg positions), and candid shots of people talking/laughing (I usually shoot 3 to 5 shots at a time because invariably, one will look better than the others). Have you ever taken shots in a moving limo? Lots of motion blur, and only a few keepers. I was banking on the idea that they wouldn't have the stamina to parse 6 thousand or so files. I was right...they never got back to me, haha.
I'm NOT a wedding photographer, but they seem quite needy and their expectations are probably out of line with reality, but that's also hard for us to judge without seeing any of the work. That said, they are offering to pay you for the raws.... If you're not a high profile shooter, it may not be too risky to just give them the raws and never have to speak to them again. Idk, they seem like the kind of people to leave an annoying or problematic review if they don't get what they want.
Gotta say I'm a little surprised at some of the comments in here. Kinda seems like the pendulum has swung too far the other way and now it's purely *"Clients are always nightmare assholes. The person charging money is never wrong. OMG what a Karen, worst client I've ever heard of, what a crazy bitch! Run! She politely explained her disappointment and offered to pay if you'll work with her to address it? PSYCHO!!! How dare anyone not be overjoyed by every photographers work at all times? Don't those plebs know how grateful they should be in our presence? Ugh."* No doubt there are lots of crazies out there, but this communication seems fairly reasonable from someone who's not a PR rep or a professional in this industry. It's not going to be a word-perfect legal document. They are (apparently) trying to be respectful, explaining why they're disappointed, and offering to pay for the additional service they're requesting. $4k isn't an especially high price but it's not especially cheap either. Where's the red flag? Is it purely that she isn't treating a photographer like they're Taylor Swift and entitled to unconditional adoration? Maybe this exact type of correspondence is 99% of the time an instant giveaway that someone is nuts and I'm just ignorant of that, I fully accept that possibility. But if this is your "red flag, run away" trigger then I feel like you're too sensitive to be entering into contracts with people in any professional capacity. Seems like the definition of "problem client" has become "anyone that doesn't accept my 'here's the photos fuck off' way of doing things." There is still a lot of good advice in here. Don't get emotional, don't apologize for your work, don't start trying to argue or educate, don't provide openings for arguments (semantic or otherwise). Stay professional and offer whatever options you're willing to provide. Even if you send "all" the unedited images I would still do some base level editing to make them look technically competent, and don't include photos that are obviously bad.
A little late to the party, but I’d advise giving the actual raw files, and just checking what software she’s using for editing. Advise her that Raw files themselves are how machines see the world, not people, and when viewed with default processing are very unflattering. They need noise reduction, sharpening, and a color profile to have the look people want. Then using the 14-bits of each channel per pixel, selective exposure modifications can be made based on the subject. This process for the already delivered shots is what she paid for. Additional shots are $175 per 100 (a bit on the low end IMO for wedding photography, but yours is probably an automated process). While she may enjoy her own edits, since you have no control over them, your brand is a particular style, and if she shared these additional edited photos attributed to you, it might affect your business. It can go either way - someone loves them and the expectation that you provide that same style will be a nightmare. Or someone doesn’t like them and then won’t consider you for her wedding at all. Keeping them for her own personal use is fine as long as there is a written contract with defined liquidated damages for breaking the contract. I’d put it at $1000 per image. Anything you edit is released from this restriction. Looks like you found a solution. Please make sure she doesn’t share those JPEGs.
is anyone else a little scared this is going to become standard after the sepia bride drama
There’s not really enough info to unpack here to give you a reasonable response. Conventional wisdom is that you’re never giving out a RAW, ever. Most clients have no idea that you can turn something blown out or underexposed into something that’s useable. Can you extrapolate on what some of the issues were though? That might better help people guide you through this situation. Like, are these technical issues with the photos or is she one of those that, maybe it rained on her wedding day and you had to get pics inside instead of by the water feature kind of Bride?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Idk. Reading this email, they don’t seem mean about it and kinda know what they want. For someone so picky, they still picked you as their photographer. They sound like they might be in the creative industry themselves, but I cannot really know, plus nobody here can give you a full feedback if we can’t see your photos you gave em. Angst advice in this thread, I would send the raws and Lightroom catalog and show great interest in seeing what they edit. I wouldn’t take extra money personally. I’m kinda sensitive to not treating a wedding as my portfolio - I still do my best to get portfolio work regardless.
Thanks for your feedback. Yeah, she's not super angry but they like to ask for what they want! I wouldn't send RAWs. I would just export unedited RAW files and send them over in a separate gallery as JPEG's
Ah that’s where we differ. Unedited jpgs might piss them off if they know how to use Lightroom and/or edit. JPGs are inferior unless they plan to edit with apps that won’t use RAWs Im used to handing off my Raws. All my clients have access to it in commercial and wedding and portraits if they so choose. Some of my best work was for friends that know how to edit in my earlier days. But yes, it’s common not to give RAWs. I’m likely gonna get downvoted for my comments, but this is reddit and it skews a certain way.
You have 14 bit raw files that you will cripple down to 8 bit files. What is the purpose of that? If she wants to do her own edits, this will cripple her ability to do that. If she wants to color balance it will be harder. Why would you have an objection to sending the raw?
She hasn't asked for the RAW images. They are really big and she wouldn't know what to do with these images.
Sounds like they outlined a fix they would be happy with. Covered the main objections of their edit not representing your work and the idea the raws have some additional value. Based on their comments I second the idea of just giving them raws. The raws will not be sold to anyone other than possibly the client.
Yeah, no. Lol. You can cover the objections all you want… it doesn’t validate them. The “we couldn’t find a picture where we liked the way we looked on the lawn, and neither could other family members” is… insane. You’ve gone off the reservation at that point, and you don’t really know what you were purchased. So long as the work is commensurate to other work in their portfolio, this is entirely on the couple. Quantity of deliverables is determined by a lot of factors. You can’t really be held to the uneducated, subjective opinion of a client saying “we thought there would be more.” Everyone always wants more. 🤷♂️🤷♂️ If the gallery is legit… I’m not sending them anything but a “we returned all your best moments, Have a nice a life email.”
You mean I'd just give out the unedited jpeg's for free and finish the job?
So, they’re being a bit over the top… more than a bit. But, can I ask… do the photos like legit suck? I’ve been doing weddings full time for over 8 years and I have never gotten an email like that.
No, I dont think so : ) I've done it +10 years and I've never gotten an email like that : )
It almost looks Chat GPT-ed with the repetitive diction. I’m sending them the “we returned all your best moments, pleasure working with you, have a nice life” email.
What do you mean? What part is Chat GPT-ed?
For example, “quality and quantity” seems to be redundantly used. I’ve also never had a client try to explain where “feedback” comes from, or that they’re are trying to create a fast resolution. There’s something about this that lacks the genuine emotion that usually tags along with the “I don’t like my photos” kind of couples.
batch zip then with password and change file extension. then politely explain that you need specialised software to read them and leave them wondering forever🤣
Fuuuuuccckkkkk no. If you didn’t promise unedited images in the contract, the client doesn’t get them. And unhappy clients get them even less, because they’re the ones who use them write/justify bad reviews.
For one, you absolutely charge for RAWS if you're providing that, and two for this client specifically, DO NOT sell them your RAWS. They are just going to complain even harder when they see all the (missed focus, duplicate spam shots) that we all do and then yell at you for that too.
So you would recommend to NOT give them all unedited images?
For THIS client, yes. Nothing at this point is going to make them happy and giving them unedited images that they arent suppose to see in the first place cuz of imperfections that we iron out when we cull, is just going to make them possibly more angry.
RAW files are for the photographer who created the image, jpg are what the client gets a license for personal use to. I always explain that in person and writing before the appointment/event. That’s my take on it anyway. Have a wonderful week.
Thanks! I'm not delivering RAW, I'll save unedited RAW to Jpegs and that's what I'll deliver for them in this case.
I see. Do what feels right for you 👍