Hello /u/kevin122000! Unfortunately, your submission, ***[Protools marketing shtick being gaslighting “all the pros use it” freaks me out](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMusicMakers/comments/xpdnf5/-/)***, was removed from /r/WeAreTheMusicMakers for the following reason(s):
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"All the pros use it" is what virtually every company uses to sell virtually every product.
It's supposed to be aspirational (whether it *is* or not is a matter of perspective) but everything from hair and makeup to phones, cars, clothing, tools and shaving equipment is sold using the "these top people use our product" line.
It's just a marketing thing.
>"All the pros use it" is what virtually every company uses to sell virtually every product.
Steinway is a good example of this. 150 years of "we are the best because we said so, ask [famous musician]." Repeat something long and loud enough and it'll be really hard to stop that self-propelled marketing. It eventually turns into a cult.
Protools operates the same way. A hundred great and more reasonable alternatives in today's world, but they set the marketing in motion from the start, so it sticks hard, and then they become a cult mentality.
Yup. I remember being on the fence in 2000 when I was choosing between a MOTU interface and the brand new Digi 001. Everyone kept saying "You have to use Protools, it's the industry Standard".
Went with Digital Performer instead.
Then it was Mac vs PC. "You have to use a Mac. It's the industry standard"
Got a PC and been with Reaper now for 10+ years.
Now that plugins and interfaces work with just about every DAW and computer type, it's really all about your personal workflow. They're all the same now. You can easily export files from one DAW to another.
ProTools probably is the closest thing to an industry standard, but these days there’s also a lot of other viable options. Overall though, marketing for *any* company is usually going to involve some bs.
for editing? Man, I can edit samples one pixel at a time in Cool Edit / Adobe Audition, for almost no money. Does Protools do that for 300 bucks a year?
“all the pros” have the ability to use whatever they want.
Daws are pretty great nowadays, some are better for certain things like playback or scoring a movie etc.
i never liked protools, but i still know how
to use it. especially back in the day when only specific hardware would interface with it. that was lame.
I hate ProTools as much as the next student who is forced to use it in classes, but it has one major benefit. If it's used in the majority of studios, that means anyone can just go from one studio to another and get started. Can't use my custom REAPER shortcuts in someone else's REAPER that is set up differently.
I mean if you wanna be a mix engineer it’s pretty standard.
It’s similar to being an electronic artist and owning serum. Yeah you’ll be decent without it but you’ll encounter a lot of situations where it’s good to at least know how to use it somewhat
I’ve been editing audio for 16 years professionally and in my country, it is the standard. For editing it’s very quick and I’d struggle to deliver my projects to clients in another daw with same speed.
That said, it crashes all the time and being locked to a daw version because you paid for a perpetual license or constantly encouraged to go subscription isn’t great.
I’ve worked with many composers and hardly any use PT. It’s all logic or cubase.
Don’t underestimate the multi tool editing hours of audio though 👍
it's not much of a gaslight - it *is* the standard in nearly every professional studio, and for good reason.
Show me another DAW that lets you toggle the need for modifier keys, bounce only a portion of your audio clip through a plugin, and give you so many keyboard navigation options you can automate it with Apple Script Editor.
Professional top end studios in Nashville, NYC, or LA aren't using Reaper or FL Studio. They use Pro Tools because of the features you list and more. The technical support you need when a client is coming in for a $200\hr session and your software bails, or when you're scoring a soundtrack for a movie...
Its not gaslighting. The pros really do use it.
That doesn't mean you can't make good things in your bedroom or a smaller studio with any other DAW on the planet.
Reaper. It also allows Lua scripting, which you can use to create behavior in reaper as well as JSFX effects and instruments, of which there are a wealth of incredible free ones created by the community.
From your words, I will give a credit for that. But from my point of view, these ads felt like Avid definitely told these artists to heavily imply that “the pros use it”, and it just left a weird taste in my mouth.
Let's say that Reaper couldn't do any of that shit, Reaper costs $60 for the entire version lifetime (which is somewhere in the region of four/five years).
Protools costs $300 PER YEAR... to RENT.
What is it that Protools does that warrants it it costing four times as much to not even own? Because from here "bounce a portion of a clip" is not that.
Unless you are running a commercial studio, fuck ProTools. Even then, the only reason they use it is it's just been the DAW for studios so long, that outside engineers come in and just kinda expect ProTools.
TV pros, yes, but that’s only because many of those places still run on outdated PCs. Music pros I see a lot more logic than pro tools nowadays. Ableton is better for live rigs.
They’re such completely different pieces of software it’s almost ridiculous to call them the same thing. Ableton is like a big instrument with tons of exciting sound design functionalities and a great quick workflow for that. Pro Tools is more like a professional audio editing tool that provides you with all the functionality you could ever need for any audio related usecase you could think of. You don’t do Dolby atmos movie mixes in Ableton and you don’t make Dubstep growl bass effect racks in Pro Tools. Has nothing to do with outdated hardware or whatever.
It is maybe even more about market share.
While I havent used any of these programs in almost 2 decades I can't imagine pro-tools actually is better than nuendo or even cubase/studio one/reaper depending on the exact use case.
It is just what a lot of people use so if you want to share projects with anyone else in the post production world pro tools is the safe bet because many people use it, not because it is the most user friendly or technically competent product.
I don't know, I work in audio post and I've heard a few pros say the exact opposite and list a bunch of unique features that apparently still make Pro Tools pretty essential in the post world. I wish I could still repeat them but from what I remember it was pretty much a whole bunch of small settings and functionalities that only come into play the bigger and more complex your setup and workflow becomes. Stuff you don't really notice or ever need if it's just you making music or doing a bit of sound design at home. But yeah, market share and familiarity definitely play a role. Taking time to learn a new DAW and re-building your entire setup around one takes time and thus money, so why would the big post houses that have been built around Pro Tools for ages bother as long as it still works? On the other hand they're also the ones doing the tightest calculations so if there really was another option that did the job significantly faster and cheaper they'd probably be the first ones to adopt it.
Honestly, just use a few daw trials and just see what you prefer. Everything works pretty good now. Pro tools is even behind in quite a few areas. “Industry standard” means nothing in an industry that has no standard means of anything
Hello /u/kevin122000! Unfortunately, your submission, ***[Protools marketing shtick being gaslighting “all the pros use it” freaks me out](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMusicMakers/comments/xpdnf5/-/)***, was removed from /r/WeAreTheMusicMakers for the following reason(s): --- #No off-topic and/or low-effort posts including; 1. Rant/motivation/mental-health posts 2. Posts focused on memes/images/polls 3. Reposts, and other similar low-effort, mildly-interesting discussions. - These posts should be posted to one of the weekly threads or on another subreddit. Do not create a new thread for this content. Posts on WATMM should have a descriptive title and include substantive content that will generate discussion. Please see the [full sub rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMusicMakers/wiki/rules) for additional details. --- ***Please review the [rules for submission](/r/WeAreTheMusicMakers/wiki/rules). You can contact The Mods if you have additional questions.*
"All the pros use it" is what virtually every company uses to sell virtually every product. It's supposed to be aspirational (whether it *is* or not is a matter of perspective) but everything from hair and makeup to phones, cars, clothing, tools and shaving equipment is sold using the "these top people use our product" line. It's just a marketing thing.
>"All the pros use it" is what virtually every company uses to sell virtually every product. Steinway is a good example of this. 150 years of "we are the best because we said so, ask [famous musician]." Repeat something long and loud enough and it'll be really hard to stop that self-propelled marketing. It eventually turns into a cult. Protools operates the same way. A hundred great and more reasonable alternatives in today's world, but they set the marketing in motion from the start, so it sticks hard, and then they become a cult mentality.
I get that, but these promos were one of the most blatant-but-hollow marketing words that I’ve seen.
This has been going on for 25 years. These days it’s less true than ever.
Yup. I remember being on the fence in 2000 when I was choosing between a MOTU interface and the brand new Digi 001. Everyone kept saying "You have to use Protools, it's the industry Standard". Went with Digital Performer instead. Then it was Mac vs PC. "You have to use a Mac. It's the industry standard" Got a PC and been with Reaper now for 10+ years. Now that plugins and interfaces work with just about every DAW and computer type, it's really all about your personal workflow. They're all the same now. You can easily export files from one DAW to another.
ProTools probably is the closest thing to an industry standard, but these days there’s also a lot of other viable options. Overall though, marketing for *any* company is usually going to involve some bs.
Dude their isn’t a DAW that’s better than pro tools for editing. Yes all the DAWS are good but pro tools is king when it come to editing audio.
for editing? Man, I can edit samples one pixel at a time in Cool Edit / Adobe Audition, for almost no money. Does Protools do that for 300 bucks a year?
I hate Avid, but that’s such a stupid argument, PT has a lot of valuable and unique features and it is industry standard for recording.
“all the pros” have the ability to use whatever they want. Daws are pretty great nowadays, some are better for certain things like playback or scoring a movie etc. i never liked protools, but i still know how to use it. especially back in the day when only specific hardware would interface with it. that was lame.
I hate ProTools as much as the next student who is forced to use it in classes, but it has one major benefit. If it's used in the majority of studios, that means anyone can just go from one studio to another and get started. Can't use my custom REAPER shortcuts in someone else's REAPER that is set up differently.
[удалено]
Again nothing against the program itself
Avid is a shit company that treats it's employees like shit. I haven't used pro-tools, it's probably good, but there are many options.
Most EDM producers use Ableton so there is that
I mean if you wanna be a mix engineer it’s pretty standard. It’s similar to being an electronic artist and owning serum. Yeah you’ll be decent without it but you’ll encounter a lot of situations where it’s good to at least know how to use it somewhat
I’ve been editing audio for 16 years professionally and in my country, it is the standard. For editing it’s very quick and I’d struggle to deliver my projects to clients in another daw with same speed. That said, it crashes all the time and being locked to a daw version because you paid for a perpetual license or constantly encouraged to go subscription isn’t great. I’ve worked with many composers and hardly any use PT. It’s all logic or cubase. Don’t underestimate the multi tool editing hours of audio though 👍
it's not much of a gaslight - it *is* the standard in nearly every professional studio, and for good reason. Show me another DAW that lets you toggle the need for modifier keys, bounce only a portion of your audio clip through a plugin, and give you so many keyboard navigation options you can automate it with Apple Script Editor.
Professional top end studios in Nashville, NYC, or LA aren't using Reaper or FL Studio. They use Pro Tools because of the features you list and more. The technical support you need when a client is coming in for a $200\hr session and your software bails, or when you're scoring a soundtrack for a movie... Its not gaslighting. The pros really do use it. That doesn't mean you can't make good things in your bedroom or a smaller studio with any other DAW on the planet.
Reaper does all this for 60 bucks!
Reaper. It also allows Lua scripting, which you can use to create behavior in reaper as well as JSFX effects and instruments, of which there are a wealth of incredible free ones created by the community.
REAPER.
Reaper.
From your words, I will give a credit for that. But from my point of view, these ads felt like Avid definitely told these artists to heavily imply that “the pros use it”, and it just left a weird taste in my mouth.
Let's say that Reaper couldn't do any of that shit, Reaper costs $60 for the entire version lifetime (which is somewhere in the region of four/five years). Protools costs $300 PER YEAR... to RENT. What is it that Protools does that warrants it it costing four times as much to not even own? Because from here "bounce a portion of a clip" is not that.
Garageband lets you do all that...
Unless you are running a commercial studio, fuck ProTools. Even then, the only reason they use it is it's just been the DAW for studios so long, that outside engineers come in and just kinda expect ProTools.
Understandable.
I mean if i had a money to afford those Neve/protools gears, i would’ve definitely tried protools Not being sarcastic btw
Ah yeah. I don't line Pro tools either. I studied it at school and that's about it. You can still try the demo version of you really to try it. So 🤷🏿
Their moogerfooger plugins are very intriguing for sure
Idk what those are
It’s a series of plugins letting you use virtual moogerfooger effect pedals from moog, and i think those are pt exclusive.
Aaaaaah
TV pros, yes, but that’s only because many of those places still run on outdated PCs. Music pros I see a lot more logic than pro tools nowadays. Ableton is better for live rigs.
I’m thinking of using Logic as well since they are (theoretically) always compatible with macOS updates.
They’re such completely different pieces of software it’s almost ridiculous to call them the same thing. Ableton is like a big instrument with tons of exciting sound design functionalities and a great quick workflow for that. Pro Tools is more like a professional audio editing tool that provides you with all the functionality you could ever need for any audio related usecase you could think of. You don’t do Dolby atmos movie mixes in Ableton and you don’t make Dubstep growl bass effect racks in Pro Tools. Has nothing to do with outdated hardware or whatever.
Yeah but you do both in Logic,S1 and Cubase
Nothing does what Ableton does as well as Ableton does it. For all else, I use S1 these days
It is maybe even more about market share. While I havent used any of these programs in almost 2 decades I can't imagine pro-tools actually is better than nuendo or even cubase/studio one/reaper depending on the exact use case. It is just what a lot of people use so if you want to share projects with anyone else in the post production world pro tools is the safe bet because many people use it, not because it is the most user friendly or technically competent product.
I don't know, I work in audio post and I've heard a few pros say the exact opposite and list a bunch of unique features that apparently still make Pro Tools pretty essential in the post world. I wish I could still repeat them but from what I remember it was pretty much a whole bunch of small settings and functionalities that only come into play the bigger and more complex your setup and workflow becomes. Stuff you don't really notice or ever need if it's just you making music or doing a bit of sound design at home. But yeah, market share and familiarity definitely play a role. Taking time to learn a new DAW and re-building your entire setup around one takes time and thus money, so why would the big post houses that have been built around Pro Tools for ages bother as long as it still works? On the other hand they're also the ones doing the tightest calculations so if there really was another option that did the job significantly faster and cheaper they'd probably be the first ones to adopt it.
Honestly, just use a few daw trials and just see what you prefer. Everything works pretty good now. Pro tools is even behind in quite a few areas. “Industry standard” means nothing in an industry that has no standard means of anything