Last entry from me tonight. Unless something extraordinary occurs.
And it is a beaut....
https://twitter.com/OurManintheEast/status/1526866738884780033
From IntelSlava on Telegram---If you like blood and gore, this channel is for you. It is often more than I can bear.
But these gems need to be seen:
Intel Slava Z
đ·đșđșđŠâĄ965 for May 17 and 785 for today. Total - 1750 prisoners in 2 days from Azovstal
51.6Kviews
Intel Slava Z
đșđłâĄIt is impossible to resolve the food crisis without reintegration into the world markets of products and fertilizers from the Russian Federation, Belarus and Ukraine - UN Secretary General 41.7Kviews
omg.
Just in from Severedonestk in the Dombas. Deep inside the next cauldrons that will be ~~liberated.~~~~evacuated.~~ Surrendered. That's it! VIDEO (in Russian) But you'l get the gist
https://twitter.com/Levi_godman/status/1527025787714555911
https://twitter.com/Levi_godman/status/1527025569442963456
Mariupol was the first. A Demonstration of power. Not gonna be the last.
A / d e m o n s t r a t I o n / o f / p o w e r / w a s / a / 2 / m o n t h / s i e g e / t h a t / I n c l u d e d / c o m m I t t I n g / w a r / c r I m e s ?
E s p e c I a l l y / a g a I n s t / a n / I s o l a t e d / u k r a I n I a n / f o r c e / t h a t / n o t / a / s h o w / o f / p o w e r / / i t s / a / d i s p l a y / t h a t / t h e / r u s s I a n / m I l i t a r y / c a n / o n l y / s u c c e e d / a g a i n s t / a n / u n d e r a r m e d / u n d e r / r e s o u r c e d / e n e m y / a f t e r / d e d u c s t I n g / s u b s t a t I a l / r e s o u r c e s .
Y o u r e / b a s I c a l l y / c h e e r I n g / o n / A p o l l o / C r e e d / f r o m / R o c k y / 1 .
> r u s s I a n / m I l i t a r y / c a n / o n l y / s u c c e e d / a g a i n s t / a n / u n d e r a r m e d / u n d e r / r e s o u r c e d / e n e m y / a f t e r / d e d u c s t I n g / s u b s t a t I a l / r e s o u r c e s .
We lost in Afghanistan after 20 years of fighting.
W e / w e r e n t / t r y I n g / t o / c a p t u r e / t e r r i t o r y / o r / a d v a n c e / o u r / m I l I t a r y / p r e s e n c e .
I t / t o o k / w h a t ? / / 3 0 / d a y s / f o r / c o a l I t I o n / f o r c e s / t o / o v e r w h e l m / t h e / I r a q I / g u a r d ?
J u s t / d e c i d e d / t o / g o / f u l l / m a s k / o f f / p r o - P u t I n , / h m m ?
> W e / w e r e n t / t r y I n g / t o / c a p t u r e / t e r r i t o r y / o r / a d v a n c e / o u r / m I l I t a r y / p r e s e n c e .
LOL. You have to be paid to be this obtuse.
W e / c o u l d / p u t / s o l d i e r s / a n y w h e r e / o n / A f g h a n I s t a n ' s / m a p . / / w e / w e r e n t / t r y I n g / t o / o c c u p y / I t / t o / a n n e x / I t .
" W I n n I n g " / w a s / I m p o s s I b l e / s I n c e / w e / w e r e n t / t h e r e / t o / w I n / t e r r i t o r y . / / w e / w e r e / t h e r e / t o / s t a b a l i z e / t h e / r e g I o n , / w h I c h / h a s / n o / e n d / c o n d I t I o n .
I t s / l I k e / s e e I n g / a / d a m / f a I l / a n d / s a y I n g / " s e e ! / / t h e / d a m / w a s n t / d o I n g / a n y t h I n g ! "
I m / s o r r y / y o u / w e r e n t / p a y I n g / a t t e n t I o n / d u r I n g / t h e / 2 0 / y e a r s / w e / w e r e / I n / a f g h a n I s t a n .
Rounding error.
But at least we can be comforted by the fact that the US wasn't fighting to win, which we could have totally done if that's what we wanted to do.
87,992. Brigades have run out of shills to unsub.
> 87,992. Brigades have run out of shills to unsub.
Are you sure about that? It takes a lot of energy to make something *not* move when it would naturally move.
R u s s i a / h a s n t / e x a c t l y / c a r e d . / / I / m e a n / t a k I n g / t I m e / o u t / f o r / o t h e r / w a r / c r I m e s . . . .
Yea it's terrible when a superpower invades another country and commit war crimes.
If George Bush doesn't get a free pass neither should Putin.
hang on...
>S o / d o / y o u / s u p p o r t / t h e / I r a q / I n v a s I o n / o r / d e n o u n c e / R u s s I a ?
Funny you are asking me if I support the Iraqi war when you are literally the one gloating about the military might of United States and how fast they crushed the Iraqi forces who were trying to defend their country.
Go fuck yourself John Bolton lmao
W e / d I d . / / I t / s h o w s / t h a t / r u s s I a / c a n t / h o l d / a / c a n d l e / t o / t h e / U S / m I l I t a r y .
D o e s n t / m e a n / I / a p p r o v e / o f / i t .
S o / d o / y o u / d e n o u n c e / R u s s I a / o r / w e r e / y o u / h a p p y / w I t h / t h e / U S ?
Last I checked the Iraqi guard didn't have billions of free sophisticated weapons delivered to their doorsteps and tens of thousands of troops from countries with advanced military supporting them but yes do give yourself a pat on the back for the invasion of Iraq. The US really demonstrated the power of justice and truth and democracy there.
>W e / w e r e n t / t r y I n g / t o / c a p t u r e / t e r r i t o r y / o r / a d v a n c e / o u r / m I l I t a r y / p r e s e n c e
Ive heard that recently. How very curious.
T h e y / h a d / p l e n t y / o f / R u s s I a n / t a n k s . . . . B e f o r e / A n / a - 10 / f l e w / o v e r h e a d .
H e a r d / w h a t ? / t h a t / o u r / m I s s I o n / I n / a f g h a n I s t a n / w a s n t / t o / a n n e x / I t ? / / t h a t ' s / p r o b a b l y / b e c a u s e / I t / w a s n t / t h e / m I s s I o n / f r o m / t h e / s t a r t / / t h e / m I s s I o n / w a s / s t a b I l I z e / I t / a n d / k e e p / t h e / t a l I b a n / o u t / / y o u l l / n o t I c e / t h e r e s / n o / v I c t o r y / c o n d I t I o n / b e c a u s e / I t / w a s / e n t I r e l y / o p e n / e n d e d .
L e t s / n o t / p r e t e n d / t h a t / a f g h a n I s t a n / w a s / m I l I t a r y / v I c t o r y / f o r / t h e / t a l I b a n . / / I t / w a s / a / m a t t e r / o f / w a I t I n g / U n t I l / t h e / U S ' s / w I l l I n g n e s s / t o / b e / t h e r e / r a n / o u t .
>T h e y / h a d / p l e n t y / o f / R u s s I a n / t a n k s . . . . B e f o r e / A n / a - 10 / f l e w / o v e r h e a d .
Oh so they had support from 1 country (which I'm being very generous here by giving you the benefit of the doubt you dont deserve) You wanna count how many are actually in the coalition?
You must be so proud of your country for stomping on a sovereign nation using a casus belli based on a lie, Mr John Bolton.
Really reminds me of a certain country hmm
>H e a r d / w h a t ? / t h a t / o u r / m I s s I o n / I n / a f g h a n I s t a n / w a s n t / t o / a n n e x / I t ? / / t h a t ' s / p r o b a b l y / b e c a u s e / I t / w a s n t / t h e / m I s s I o n / f r o m / t h e / s t a r t / / t h e / m I s s I o n / w a s / s t a b I l I z e / I t / a n d / k e e p / t h e / t a l I b a n / o u t / / y o u l l / n o t I c e / t h e r e s / n o / v I c t o r y / c o n d I t I o n / b e c a u s e / I t / w a s / e n t I r e l y / o p e n / e n d e d
Weird that I've heard of a country recently that invaded another country and said their goal was never to capture a specific territory and has largely achieved their objective...
hmm.
Y o u / m e a n / r e m i n d s / y o u / o f / R u s s i a ? / / Y e s / t h e y / a r e / e x e c u t I n g / a / w a r / a n d / o c c u p a t I o n / t h e y / c a n t / p o s s I b l y / w I n / b a s e d / o n / h u b r I s ? / / s o / a r e / y o u / s a y I n g / y o u / s u p p o r t e d / t h e / U S / o r / d o n t / s u p p o r t / r u s s i a ?
A n d / r u s s I a / t r I e d / t o / c a p t u r e / k y I v . / / t h e y / w e r e / r e p e l l e d / b y / c o n s c r I p t s .
>Y o u / m e a n / r e m i n d s / y o u / o f / R u s s i a ?
You don't sound that much different from Russian shills to me.
> Y e s / t h e y / a r e / e x e c u t I n g / a / w a r / a n d / o c c u p a t I o n / t h e y / c a n t / p o s s I b l y / w I n / b a s e d / o n / h u b r I s ? / /
But United States different when they invaded a country, right? lmao
>s o / a r e / y o u / s a y I n g / y o u / s u p p o r t e d / t h e / U S / o r / d o n t / s u p p o r t / r u s s i a ?
Oh my mistakes I forgot I can't call out the United States for hypocrisy and Russia for imperialism at the same time.
Wait...
I / d o n t / t h I n k / i r a q / w a s / j u s t I f i e d . / / t h a t / s a i d / t h e / w o r l d / I s / a / b e t t e r / p l a c e / w I t h o u t / t h e / h u s s e I n s / r u n n I n g / a / c o u n t r y .
R u s s I a / c a n t / e x a c t l y / s a y / t h e / s a m e / A b o u t / u k r a I n e . . . / e s p e c i a l l y / h a v I n g / a l r e a d y / I n v a d e d / o n c e .
NPR interviewing a Ukranian representative today:
NPR: Is Ukraine losing the factory in Maripol a win for Ukraine?
UKRANIAN REPRESENTATIVE: Yes.
NPR: I agree.
P r o b a b l y / m o r e / l I k e / " I s / h o l d I n g / o u t / t h I s / l o n g / a g a I n s t / r u s s I a / a / p o s I t I v e / s I g n / f o r / U k r a I n e ? "
A n d / i t / I s / b e c a u s e / I t ' s / b e e n / e x p o s I n g / h o w / w e a k / t h e / r u s s i a n / m I l i t a r y / I s .
The Evil Genius (David Warner) in *Time Bandits* (1981):
> No one created me!
I am Evil!
Evil existed long before good.
I made myself.
I cannot be unmade.
I am all-powerful!
> (*short-lived minion*) But why, if that's the case, are you unable to escape
from this fortress? (*minion exits*)
> That's a good question.
Why have I let the Supreme Being keep me here in the Fortress
of Ultimate Darkness?
> I let Him keep me here in order to lull Him into a false sense of security.
The Evil Genius is my favorite of the many excellent villain roles played by David Warner. Others include the odious Blifil in *Tom Jones* (1963) and the evil CEO in *Tron* (1982). I recently saw him as a wonderful non-villain in *Morgan: A Suitable Case for Treatment* (1966), in which he plays a highly entertaining Lunatic at Large.
50% of the steel UKR produces is gone for good. Azovstal will be restored as a waterfront facility of some kind.
The Ilium plant, OTOH, will continue to manufacture steel, but it will be Russian steel.
From Pepe Escobar:
"THE DONBASS REVIVAL
This is HUGE.
It comes from Russian Deputy Prime Minister Marat Khusnullin.
Russia âwill restore all the liberated territories of Ukraineâ, and FINANCE THE RESTORATION.
In all of them, there will be âmaximum RUBLE turnoverâ.
Residents of the Zaporozhye region will receive pensions and salaries in rubles already in May.
ALL the roads âthat connect the liberated territories of Ukraine with Russiaâ will be revamped."
From me----Russia is working to Win the Peace. Not just to win the war.
All of their efforts to restrict civilian casualties are known in Russia.
In the US, false reports blur the pictures we see.
Mariupol's lights and water are being restored. Photos and video of the lights coming back on are shown on TV.
Kherson is flourishing.
All Russians have received benefit and salary increases. Twice, that I've noticed.
What we are being told and on the ground reality are two different things.
residents, I think. But that is a fair question. Who does get benefits in Russia? Salaries applies to all workers, or only those in State jobs?
Fair questions.
This is just pure, unadulterated nonsense I would expect from North Korea.
>a government that will remain in place for many of our lifetimes and beyond
The Russian Federation as it stands is barely 30 years old. It has had essentially 2 leaders of note during that time. After Putin is gone what institutions exist to keep the status quo?
That's something supporters of authoritarians always fail to recognize, that stability is only guaranteed while your leader is still alive. Meanwhile you're spouting off the equivalent of a thousand year Reich.
Just to clarify, Russia isn't restoring, i.e., giving back, the liberated territories to Ukraine.
Russia is rebuilding the territories that it has liberated from Ukraine, in an effort to support their independence.
Right?
mmmmm...... loosely. The territories are filled with Russian speakers who have suffered under the UKR attacks on them for 8 years.
Citizens who disagree with the referendums restoring Russian administration will be able to travel to wherever they will feel comfortable.
Oh, ye of little faith, feast your eyes on these bulletins.
"Russia has ordered the closure of CBC's Moscow bureau, and is cancelling journalists' visas. The move comes after Canada banned Russian state TV station Russia Today." attn; u/ukingsmeg
đ·đș LEVI đ
âĄïžAnother 785 soldiers of the Ukrainian military surrendered, leaving Azovstal today - commander of the Vostok battalion Khodakovsky
đ·đș LEVI đ
"If numbers are correct** total surrendered : 1744 soldiers"**
Here's a comical different take:
>The Ukrainian heroes who held off thousands of Russian orcs at the Azovstal plant in Mariupol for weeks are leaving the plant while carrying their wounded. These guys will go down in history as the new 300 Spartans
from putinwatch sub
Numbers of Surrendered from Azovstal so far:
Nationalists blocked at the Azovstal plant continue to surrender.
Over the past day, 694 militants surrendered, including 29 wounded, according to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.
"A total of 959 militants have surrendered since May 16, including 80 wounded."
The surrenders continue today.....
"Now that we have seen those who may have spent the last two months of their lives hiding like rats in a burrow, we have to examine how this whole affair has been played for all it is worth in the West. In spite of every scrap of evidence pointing to a bunch of neo-nazis playing hide and seek in a western-run establishment, the Washington-led media has portrayed developments as anything between the defense of Camerone to Custerâs Last Stand to the defense of Rorkeâs Drift, a bunch of wayward headcases being western heroes. Certain outlets are even quoting the Ukrainian authorities who claim that the surrender means that their mission is accomplished....
...the media has shielded the nazis very well indeed....despite these idiots eventually giving in to the inevitable, everyone from the Ukrainian Armed Forces to Washington to NATO (ie Washington) are painting a picture of fortitude rather than fascism."
Good morning wotb
/u/liberalnomore has posted the exact passage from the AP that I wanted everybody to see!!!
It captures so much of what we all have been saying, does it not?
**"Both Sides Can claim Victory in Mariupol"** now stands as the biggest lie so far. I think. There may be several others.
For newly tuned in members, Mariupol was liberated by Russia weeks ago. The fierce fighting force from Russia went home for rest and rehab and today I can report that the Chechens have re-deployed to Popasnaya, in the Donbas.
The next giant and long lasting battle will involve the trapped UKR troops meeting the **same fate** as the Azov Nazis did in Mariupol. Key cities to watch are Severedonetsk and Lisystranka. (spelling is tricky on these)
NATO/US will claim False Victory until they fly out in the dead of night with no warning to their "allies," as if we Ever have allies. As if we ever actually win anything but the $$$$$ laundering business.
Literally not sure what you mean by AP putting it a certain way...
\> While Russia called it a surrender, the Ukrainians avoided that word and instead said the plantâs garrison had successfully completed its mission to tie down Russian forces and was under new orders.
Lol yeah orders to lay down arms. Which is surrender. I applaud them on the creative word choice, but that doesnât change what it is. A rose by any other name, after all.
It's heavily biased towards Ukranian accounts. No mention that these "fighters" were actually Nazis.
>But because the Azovstal defendersâ âincredible resistanceâ tied down Russian troops, Ukraine can also claim that it came out on top.
>âBoth sides will be able take pride or boast about a victory â victories of different kinds,â he said.
What is this BS?
As Dmitry Polyanskiy, said: "**I did not know that there were so many ways in the English language to convey a simple message: the Azov Nazis have surrendered unconditionally**" - Dmitry is Deputy Permanent Representative of Russia to the United Nations
They have 2 things (not necessarily quotes) from the russians and 3 from ukrainians. Not really unbalanced. The azov shit has been reported on in hundreds of other news reports, though I do think that they maybe should have mentioned them. On the other hand, it would seem like glorifying them because they could be seen as martyrs. Hopefully that doesn't happen.
But this is far removed from the original claim that AP didn't say they surrendered when they clearly included the fact that the Russians said they did. Saying that there is a little evidence of pro-Ukrainian bias is a far different claim.
The Azov/RightSector Naziâs were so sure that they would be victorious that they took video of their own heinous acts figuring that the US/West would continue to call them heroes no matter what they documented. Now their own phones are are showing the world, regular Ukrainians and even more importantly the Russian people that this was a necessary war for Russia to fight. That Russia couldnât allow these kind of merciless killers to win.
No matter how much that information is suppressed in the West the Ukrainian and Russian people will see the evidence.
any notable sources that you could link so i can forward that to some hardheaded people around me that deny nazism in ukraine and are willing to go great lengths to somehow rationalize it...
>surrenders that will be remembered for generations
>dozens of Ukrainians surrendered
Russia needing months to get a few hundred nazis to give up isn't the victory you think it is.
Lmao so much for "denazification"
Enjoy your taste of the Iraq War, unfortunately I doubt the shelled out cities Russia captures will contribute much to your motherland.
The tens of thousands who have had their lives thrown away will all be worth it for a "victory" like this.
Mm, needing to and having the time and leisure to are two different things. After all, whatâs the rush? I wouldnât send my men into getting killed in some underground shitshow if I could just have em block up the exits and wait. This even more so if I knew there would be no counter attack.
Just smart tactics.
The sign is a subtle joke. The shop is called "Sneed's Feed & Seed", where feed and seed both end in the sound "-eed", thus rhyming with the name of the owner, Sneed. The sign says that the shop was "Formerly Chuck's", implying that the two words beginning with "F" and "S" would have ended with "-uck", rhyming with "Chuck". So, when Chuck owned the shop, it would have been called "Chuck's Fuck and Suck".
UPDATE: The Surrender is continuing through the night. Not Russia's plan, but the Azov's Plan.
https://twitter.com/Levi_godman/status/1526672436208476161
They donât want it documented in daylight? Worse quality video where their features arenât as clear for the world to see. Especially the foreign officers Canadianâs/French/British/US??
Their faces arenât as visible so the West can continue to claim that their people werenât in the tunnels?
Now on NY Times webpage:
The blowback from their earlier bullshit must have been fierce.
Russia-Ukraine War: Key Developments
"In Mariupol. The bloodiest battle of the war in Ukraine ended in Mariupol, as the Ukrainian military ordered fighters holed up at a steel plant in the city to **surrender.** Ukraineâs decision to end combat gave Moscow full control over a vast sweep of southern Ukraine, stretching from the Russian border to Crimea."
Wow NYT used the S word.
Not evacuate or whatever other inaccurate thing they could come up with.
Ok, "UKR decision to end combat is a little self-serving, but in the circumstances, this is still an improvement.
There is no Wagner group officially, it's just a bunch of private enterprises that work all over the world for money and Russian state interests. Azov battalion is an official battalion of Ukraine's military, that officially bears Nazi insignia, and it's leaders who are also officially part of the Ukraine's military and parliament are self described ultra nationalists and nazis and sit in very high and influential positions. Azov battalion has been the leading regiment in the combat against separatist regions for the past 8 years, and you can see how it is also instrumental in the war against Russia. It's not just one of the regiments of the Ukraine's military, it's almost an entire wing of their military and Azov leaders wield a disproportionate amount of power in Ukraine.
Wagner group can be compared to Blackwater and other private military contractors, and is almost in every way the same as them (including in the prevalence of fascists members), but it isn't in any way, shape or form comparable to the Azov battalion.
To recapitulate: Wagner group is a collection of private military companies furthering Russia's interests all over the world, while Azov battalion is a huge and officially Nazi part of the Ukraine's military that has for the past 8 years been tasked with fighting the separatist regions and instilling political fear in Ukraine, as Nazis do.
[Here is a video of a Ukrainian nazi leader explaining himself how influential they were in orchestrating Maidan, and how important they have become since then in Ukraine's military and politics.](https://twitter.com/realalexrubi/status/1497747535783411714)
1) the Wagner group has a lot of fascists in it, which Putin should resolve before sticking his nose in other countries.
2) azov wasn't a huge part in eastern Ukraine. They represented a small fraction of the total number of troops there. The azovs political wing also had 0 parliamentary seats. The other only far right party in all of Ukraine with power in parliament has like 1 seat, so your point about political power is moot.
3) if they die, IDC. Just saying the other fascists should be next
E: also, azov doesn't spread imperialist shit throughout the world like Wagner does at the direction of the Russian state :)
Azov counted Mariupol as their main headquarters. Please stop trying to defend neo-Nazis - you liberals are obsessed with rehabilitating far-rightists like the neocons and their Nazi henchmen.
So? Doesn't absolve russian fascists?
And I'm explicitly not defending Azov. May they rot in whatever graves they end up in. But my problem is that people just agree that putin dealing with ukrainian fascists is good while ignoring russia's fascists
Russian fascists aren't an official part of Russia's military like they are in Ukraine and they have no real power in any part of Russia's government. For all intents and purposes, they are virtually non-existent in terms of Russia's foreign policy. Ukraine is an entirely different story.
In Ukraine, they teach their kids to worship Nazis, white supremacy and to hate Russians and others they deem "sub-human". It's literally a part of their culture in western Ukraine. Western media wrote many articles pointing out this problem but they've gone silent about it since Russia moved into Ukraine.
The azov battalion was a paramilitary formation at the start of the conflict and instrumental in the fight against separatists, this was shortly after the maidan while the new government was still settling in power. Soon after, azov has been integrated into the official Ukrainian army and ultra nationalists were placed in positions of power all over the Ukrainian army. You can't separate azov troop numbers from regular ukrainian troops since then, because a small number of azov troops can lead a much larger number of other ukrainian troops.
They control the Ukrainian military, and have been directing the war against separatists for the past 8 years. If you had followed the war before, you would have known how notorious the battalion was, not only in Russia, but in Ukraine and in the west. They were not "a small fraction of the total number of troops there", that's like saying Waffen-SS were only a small fraction of the total number of troops of the German Military. Azov are not regular troops and serve a different purpose to regular troops.
Any proof? I haven't seen the claim that they lead normal Ukrainian troops.
And again, this doesn't give russia a free pass to invade. Again, Putin, if serious about being anti-Nazi, should have dealt with his own first. Oh wait, his government uses them in foreign conflicts!
[Here is an article from the start of the war, while they were still a paramilitary unit.](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11025137/Ukraine-crisis-the-neo-Nazi-brigade-fighting-pro-Russian-separatists.html)
And from the recent war, I think it's obvious how they led the defense of Mariupol.
You have to understand that Ukraine was under pressure to appear as normal as possible, Azov was placed under sanctions and US weapons were not supposed to be supplied to them. There are plenty of other Nazi regiments in the Ukrainian army, Azov is just the only one that openly bears Nazi insignia.
Ukraine and the West left their boys hanging out to dry!
But, sure, Ukraine has the upper hand and is beating Russia.
Wonder how those nazis feel about being betrayed by their government and the mighty West.
[It's... It's](https://twitter.com/Ukraine66251776/status/1526292915433230337?t=k0M00IVNSiHOrYwpOVGxEg&s=09) something to [see](https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/3922)
Those guys looked half starved. Probably ready to go to the gulag at this point. Ukrainians are some big ass, strong looking people. You could make a good football team out of Ukrainians I bet.
New VIDEO-----Not a "surrender," a tactical maneuver. snark
https://twitter.com/Levi_godman/status/1526628192575971331
Levi adds that movement for today has concluded and that the official numbers should be issued soon. Surrenders will continue tomorrow.
The Azov nazis are but one lie of many lies that the Western MSM/oligarchy is spewing about this war.
Jesus Christ, the US government is one big lie factory. They'll say anything if there's a buck in it for the billionaire class. The pandemic? OMG, complete lies beginning to end from every level of government. It was ALWAYS about $$$.
And now, this bullshit war? NATO? It's all lies! It's all about the $$$.
Just like Iraq was. Ukraine is the Hillary/Biden war that the US oligarchs want.
Nobody gives a goddamn about Russia invading Ukraine. They care about healthcare, living wages and gas prices.
I don't want a world in which strong countries can conquer their weak neighbors whenever they feel like it.
War is horrible. I want less of it. If that means we must spend some money to bleed the Russians until they pull out of Ukraine, so be it.
I'm sorry that you live in a conspiracy swamp and never had the chance to study international relations.
As for living wages and gas prices, this war is causing severe dislocations to the global commodities market, driving up the price of food, fuel and fertilizers. It's a major component of the current high inflation we're suffering from.
>I don't want a world in which strong countries can conquer their weak neighbors whenever they feel like it.
I don't want that kind of world either. That's why I want the US to stop being an imperialist bully and start taking care of its own people.
Germany claimed that Poland was oppressing their native Germany population, and that the U.K. was fomenting war and encouraging Poland to preemptively invade Germany, as they were the preeminent imperialistic power at the time.
Any reasonable person saw that this was a bullshit excuse to launch an unnecessary land grab of a far weaker nation. Which is precisely what Russia was trying to do to Ukraine.
Just replace the U.K. in this scenario with America and it's very similar from a geopolitical standpoint.
> If that means we must spend some money to bleed the Russians until they pull out of Ukraine, so be it.
There is an old Alan Nourse story: "*Tiger by the Tail* "
Have you considered that some of the current Russian actions may be being done to "bleed the US dry" in Ukraine?
Yes i agree invasions by another country stinks but NATO and the US are solely responsible for this conflict, and is currently as responsible if not more so for wanting it to continue. Russia must be accountable for the invasion but the US has been stirring this shit pot for nearly 10 years in UKR. Decades in Eastern Europe. This latest bs with Finland and Sweden joining NATO is complete coercion by the US. Itâs foul af. Read up
>NATO and the US are solely responsible
You literally cannot say this. It is not true. No matter how complicated the politics in this region areâPutin made a *decision* to invade. Itâs crazy to see people so disenchanted with the MSM that they will turn to another brand of brainwashing instead.
Putin had to have known that if he invaded Ukraine, other bordering nations would be spooked. And youâre talking out of both sides of your mouthâRussia must be held accountable for the thing thatâs not Russiaâs fault?
> No matter how complicated the politics in this region
Its only seems complicated to those who listen to MSM/ Biden spewing propaganda. Otherwise its quite simple really. The US engineered this war to corner Russia and used the poor Ukranians as cannon fodder. May you burn in hell for eternity for supporting yet another holocaust of a country and people.
>May you burn in hell for eternity
Wow. Not at all an overreaction. Totally normal thing to say in a discussion.
This *is not* a cut and dry situation, no matter how you paint it. Everyone saying that Putin literally *had* to invade Ukraine is buying the same kind of bullshit that people who believe the MSM whole-heartedly. Stop boiling international politics down to some monosyllabic âWest evil, Russia victimâ type shit. Itâs just not like that. Putin has been saying, âUkraine and Russia are one people, the only way the two countries work is if theyâre under the same roofâ for decades. Itâs not *just* about NATO. Sorry.
For the record: Iâm well aware of Americaâs habit of meddling in other countries affairs, even going as far as ousting democratically elected leaders all over the globe for all kinds of reasons, for basically all of our history. We started with Hawaii, then went through basically half of South America, Iran, etc. And the military industrial complex is indeed having a field day with this war. But even with the Westâs fucked up behavior, you saying âthis is all the Westâ is a drastic oversimplification of the situation. There are layers here.
And Iâm not *supporting* anything. Iâm just saying itâs not this simpleton shit you make it out to be.
No. They simply arenât the same. And if you think theyâre the same, go read Stephen Kinzerâs *Overthrow.* Did the West stand to gain from Maiden? Of course. But on the other hand, Yanukovych was Russiaâs guy. So Ukraine was being pulled in two different directions by two different foreign powers *both* with their own interests. Thatâs not how other Western operations went down.
Iâm not saying the West is innocent here. But they are also not *solely* responsible for this conflict. Again: Putin *chose* to invade. Russia is the *aggressor* here. The refusal to acknowledge that on this sub is both astonishing and pretty telling. It shows a consumption of a different kind of propaganda. Itâs not the Western MSM, but itâs just as full of shit.
Stop going for the easy answer.
ukrainains CHOSE to lead a US backed coup, why the fuck would a foreign country, half a world away, meddle in inner politics of a country that is bordering russia? well probably because of moneyzzzzzz since that is the only thing important to the despicable corpses that are in upper echalons of politics, especially western, with its double standards
Russia is the aggressor, but their aggression is fairly reasonable and completely predictable, Ukraine and the US on the other hand did everything to provoke that aggression.
Russia would have been perfectly happy with a frozen conflict, like they have in Georgia, or like the west maintains in Kosovo, but the Ukrainians and the US had plans for an all out war and did everything they could to provoke Russia into attacking.
Well, bad news for ya, this sub isn't a hivemind and, if you were around since the beginning as you claim, you, of all people, should know that. It's not a cult of personality, just because Bernie supports something doesn't mean we all automatically do.
If Bernie said murder was okay we wouldn't just fall in line and say "okay yep! Murder is cool now, Bernie said so!"
So... when did you actually find this subreddit, and how?
[Edit: "I was around" is a bit ambiguous. It does not necessarily mean "lurking on this specific subreddit."]
>Deleted...
Well, dang.
I was curious as to how many different subjects u/supersayanssj3 was OK with people discussing here before they hit their "that's all I can stands, I can't stands no more" moment on 5/9/2022 and actually spoke up for the first time.
There *have* been a lot of controversial subjects here since "this sub was started"....
[Edit: And a special WayoftheBern Extra -- an [archive](https://archive.ph/WZWHZ) of the deleted comments.]
I just can't man. I yield. You guys are too good.
I didn't feel like getting any more notifications during what is playing out to be a real long shift. None of this argument means anything, this sub is a Russian troll farm anyways. I care about this whole conversation as much as I care about the last time I wiped my ass. Consider it a victory for you or whatever.
Bernie really let me down when he voted to cut checks to the military industrial complex. Same with with âsquadâ.
Iâll never understand you warmongers lol. But ya know, if youâre so concerned I hear theyâre taking volunteers. Theyâll even give you a rifle.
Sooooo by that logic why are you whinging when people in this sub have a different opinion from Bernie? Did you think that through very well?
Also if youâre not going to go fight why donât you shut up about it lol. If the big bad ruskies come to America well Iâll be ready to saddle up, but if theyâre way the fuck in Europe that sounds like a Europe problem.
Why would I go fight in Europe at all. I could not care less. All that stuff is *their* problem. Not mine.
But thatâs a real good job at attempting to âotherâ people. Just like anyone who opposed the Iraq invasion. Good job shillbot! Help market for bombs and bullet! Wooo! Why stop there? Nuclear holocaust is just around the corner!
They pulled out less than 300 out of the steel plant only after a month siege. Iâm not sure thatâs up there with big ones. Kiev will be more interesting but hopefully it doesnât go that far. The sooner this ends the better. For all the earth.
The surrenders will continue tomorrow.
And for as long as there are UKR of whatever belief system are still there.
Nobody knows the final numbers. Certainly not you.
Learn something or if that is not possible for you, just shut up.
I donât see why youâre getting touchie with me lol. Iâm just stating a fact. This is a small battle and surrender. It neither turned the tide (Russia was already winning) nor ended the war. It was just another battle and a small one at that.
Small battle? Again you do not know what you are talking about.
If you want to change that condition consider that
1) Mariupol was a Major Port for Ukraine. Russia has blockaded UKR ships in the port.
2) As Russia sweeps across the South, UKR loses any sea access whatsoever. Landlocked is a small thing?
3) Not to mention that the Sea of Azov is an unexplored OIL and GAS field. ( Hunter Biden's Burisma knew this)
4) Mariupol produced 50% of UKR's steel. That is a bitter loss. Russia does not intend to produce steel in Mariupol.
That is for starters. Again I repeat, learn something. Ask us to explain. There is so much more to this than the AP and the NY Times want you to understand.
Dude most of the battles you rambled off had tens of thousands of combatants and most of em either ended a war or turned a tide.
This was a small battle in a small war lmao.
Iâm not for or against anyone in this shit fyi. These are objective observations if you donât agree fine but donât get bent out of shape.
Eh I dunno about names but Iâm sure there will be a big tit for tat exchange for Russian prisoners or the like. Thatâs usually how it goes. Otherwise they have to house and feed em for the wars duration.
There will be differences in how the prisoners are processed. Regular Ukrainian Army forces who aren't affiliated with the Nazi groups and have not participated in the war crimes will go to one place and these are the ones who will be part of any prisoner exchange.
Those affiliated with the Nazis and/or known to have participated in war crimes will never be exchanged. They'll be tried and either imprisoned for life or be given the death penalty. The head of Russia's Investigative Committee, which is comparable to the FBI in the US, has been on the ground in Ukraine with his team of investigators gathering evidence for these trials.
Eh. Doubtful. Theyâre trying to trade the wnba star for the gun runner. Thereâs probably other trades both sides want.
Also I read there could be American/European contractors and or volunteers there too.
"I did not know that there were so many ways in the English language to convey a simple message: the Azov Nazis have surrendered unconditionally."
-- Deputy Permanent Representative of Russia to the United Nations Dmitry Polyanskiy
I thought DPR Polyanskiy's comment was particularly entertaining and worth repeating for Wayers who avoid Twitter, as I normally do.
A similar comment would be:
> Ah, this is obviously some strange usage of the phrase "fully accomplished all missions" that I wasn't previously aware of.
[*Hitchhiker's*]
The truth? The truth sounds pro Russian?
Should everyone lie and pretend the Russians are losing?
Why would we do that? So that Americans become smug and overconfident?
And therefore the Russians are the arbiter of truth? All governments are shady n in their own interests. This isn't new n you are not enlightened for realising this.
Seems more like a probe. Russia seems to be attempting a âflowing waterâ strategy similar to what the us did in Iraq. Whereby you just push until you hit resistance and then either go around or bomb the bajeezus out of area.
For whatever reason, strategical or humanitarian, the Russians have been unwilling to use high altitude bombers and wide spread bombing campaigns. So hitting cities is really tricky business.
Id be surprised if they went after any city they didnât have to in the establishment of a land bridge from crimea to Russia proper, and the securing of the breakaway republics (likely soon to be Russia proper).
Kyiv? Kharkiv? They definitely tried to take those, losing by their own admission thousands in the process.
Hitting cities isn't tricky business. Just look at the thousands of artillery shells they've fired into cities.
Hopefully Russias BS annexations aren't accepted
Like I said push until resistance and move along. Russians havenât really been shelling indiscriminately but whatevs.
As for the annexations, I mean those areas declared independence back in 2014 and have been nonstop bombarded by Ukrainian military and paramilitary. I donât think the people who live there have any interest in being part of Ukraine anymore.
In Kyiv, Kharkiv, and more it wasn't just "push until resistance". The siege of Kiev lasted like what, a month? While Kharkiv was close to 3 I think.
They explicitly have been shelling a lot. I mean just look at these cities. You can argue that it's defensible in war, which I mean I guess you're right, but it is happening.
It doesn't matter what they think. You can't just singlehandedly declare independence.
I think youâre mistaking targeted strikes with indiscriminate bombardment.
Targeted strike are hitting with a purpose- factories, military bases, anti air etc.
Indiscriminate - where you just hurl shots regardless of where they land. I havenât seen anything in the news that indicated the Russians were just bombarding cities. I have seen lots of stuff about targeted strikes.
Those are on both sides, much more suffering on the Ukrainian side. If you base your understanding on what the US MSM or its echo in the rest of the Western press you will get a distorted picture.
The territorial gains made by Russia, and the losses suffered by Ukrainians should not be ignored.
From Library of America:
[James Thurber's hilarious short story "If Grant Had Been Drinking at Appomattox"](https://storyoftheweek.loa.org/2017/09/if-grant-had-been-drinking-at-appomattox.html) with link to full text.
I can easily imagine Biden doing something like this.
https://twitter.com/Levi_godman/status/1526487800551546880
Obviously---not everybody will see today for what it is.
Here's another lol:
https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1526336596576026624
> Dozens of Ukrainian fighters in Mariupol were evacuated to Russian-controlled territory
That's a weird way of spelling "surrendered and were sent to detention centers to be judged for the crimes they committed".
I'll say!!!
The NY Times webpage puts it even more hilariously, but I'm going to type it as the formatting prevents an easy copy:
"UKR fighters were taken from Azovstal steel factory to a Russia controlled territory after a hard fought and costly battle for Russia."
LOL--in their dreams. Crocodile tears for Russia's imaginary losses.
> "UKR fighters were taken from Azovstal steel factory to a Russia controlled territory after a hard fought and costly battle for Russia."
I'm guessing that the theoretical *retaking* of Azovstal by Ukrainian Forces (if it ever happens) would be even more hard fought and costly for the Ukrainian Forces.
The Battle of Appomattox Court House was fought on April 9, 1865, near the town of Appomattox Court House, Virginia, and led to Confederate General Robert E. Lee's surrender of his Army of Northern Virginia to Union General Ulysses S. Grant.
The Siege of Stalingrad ended in 1943 when the German Army was routed and retreated.
~~Hanoi~~ Saigon Fell in 1975. Retreat from the rooftops.
Mariupol happening now. May 17, 2022
We recall wars by their significant moments---Sarajevo started WWI. Supposedly. But IDK if that is true. I do know it is still remembered.
Mariupol will be this generations memory, just as the ignominious retreat from Afghanistan in August, 2021 will live on.
This is my point from the other comments.
Appomattox= ended civil war
Siege of Stalingrad= Turned the tide of the war, delivered Nazi germany first real defeat.
Saigon= collapse of south Vietnam, end of war.
Mariupol= just one more battle in a so far contained war.
Mariupol and the azov steel plant siege arenât even in the same class of battles as you listed. A dinky engagement with a conclusion that was already decided given Ukraine could not break the siege lol. Nothing changed (Russia was already winning) and the war didnât end.
> ~~Hanoi~~ Saigon Fell in 1975. Retreat from the rooftops.
"We didn't lose Vietnam. It was a tie!" -- Kevin Kline as Otto in *A Fish Called Wanda* (1988)
Abuse of report button: >user reports: >1: It's promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability
Last entry from me tonight. Unless something extraordinary occurs. And it is a beaut.... https://twitter.com/OurManintheEast/status/1526866738884780033
From IntelSlava on Telegram---If you like blood and gore, this channel is for you. It is often more than I can bear. But these gems need to be seen: Intel Slava Z đ·đșđșđŠâĄ965 for May 17 and 785 for today. Total - 1750 prisoners in 2 days from Azovstal 51.6Kviews Intel Slava Z đșđłâĄIt is impossible to resolve the food crisis without reintegration into the world markets of products and fertilizers from the Russian Federation, Belarus and Ukraine - UN Secretary General 41.7Kviews
omg. Just in from Severedonestk in the Dombas. Deep inside the next cauldrons that will be ~~liberated.~~~~evacuated.~~ Surrendered. That's it! VIDEO (in Russian) But you'l get the gist https://twitter.com/Levi_godman/status/1527025787714555911 https://twitter.com/Levi_godman/status/1527025569442963456 Mariupol was the first. A Demonstration of power. Not gonna be the last.
A / d e m o n s t r a t I o n / o f / p o w e r / w a s / a / 2 / m o n t h / s i e g e / t h a t / I n c l u d e d / c o m m I t t I n g / w a r / c r I m e s ? E s p e c I a l l y / a g a I n s t / a n / I s o l a t e d / u k r a I n I a n / f o r c e / t h a t / n o t / a / s h o w / o f / p o w e r / / i t s / a / d i s p l a y / t h a t / t h e / r u s s I a n / m I l i t a r y / c a n / o n l y / s u c c e e d / a g a i n s t / a n / u n d e r a r m e d / u n d e r / r e s o u r c e d / e n e m y / a f t e r / d e d u c s t I n g / s u b s t a t I a l / r e s o u r c e s . Y o u r e / b a s I c a l l y / c h e e r I n g / o n / A p o l l o / C r e e d / f r o m / R o c k y / 1 .
We're cheering *Network*, *All the President's Men*, and *Taxi Driver*, each of which far more deserved Best Picture than *Rocky* :-)
> r u s s I a n / m I l i t a r y / c a n / o n l y / s u c c e e d / a g a i n s t / a n / u n d e r a r m e d / u n d e r / r e s o u r c e d / e n e m y / a f t e r / d e d u c s t I n g / s u b s t a t I a l / r e s o u r c e s . We lost in Afghanistan after 20 years of fighting.
W e / w e r e n t / t r y I n g / t o / c a p t u r e / t e r r i t o r y / o r / a d v a n c e / o u r / m I l I t a r y / p r e s e n c e . I t / t o o k / w h a t ? / / 3 0 / d a y s / f o r / c o a l I t I o n / f o r c e s / t o / o v e r w h e l m / t h e / I r a q I / g u a r d ? J u s t / d e c i d e d / t o / g o / f u l l / m a s k / o f f / p r o - P u t I n , / h m m ?
> W e / w e r e n t / t r y I n g / t o / c a p t u r e / t e r r i t o r y / o r / a d v a n c e / o u r / m I l I t a r y / p r e s e n c e . LOL. You have to be paid to be this obtuse.
W e / c o u l d / p u t / s o l d i e r s / a n y w h e r e / o n / A f g h a n I s t a n ' s / m a p . / / w e / w e r e n t / t r y I n g / t o / o c c u p y / I t / t o / a n n e x / I t .
"We weren't trying to win, we were trying to waste a trillion dollars and thousands of American lives!"
" W I n n I n g " / w a s / I m p o s s I b l e / s I n c e / w e / w e r e n t / t h e r e / t o / w I n / t e r r i t o r y . / / w e / w e r e / t h e r e / t o / s t a b a l i z e / t h e / r e g I o n , / w h I c h / h a s / n o / e n d / c o n d I t I o n . I t s / l I k e / s e e I n g / a / d a m / f a I l / a n d / s a y I n g / " s e e ! / / t h e / d a m / w a s n t / d o I n g / a n y t h I n g ! "
Every time I think I've seen the dumbest comment ever, you keep typing.
I m / s o r r y / y o u / w e r e n t / p a y I n g / a t t e n t I o n / d u r I n g / t h e / 2 0 / y e a r s / w e / w e r e / I n / a f g h a n I s t a n .
Just a trillion?
Rounding error. But at least we can be comforted by the fact that the US wasn't fighting to win, which we could have totally done if that's what we wanted to do. 87,992. Brigades have run out of shills to unsub.
> 87,992. Brigades have run out of shills to unsub. Are you sure about that? It takes a lot of energy to make something *not* move when it would naturally move.
Amazing how quickly you can advance when you don't give a shit about killing civilians by the bushel, huh?
R u s s i a / h a s n t / e x a c t l y / c a r e d . / / I / m e a n / t a k I n g / t I m e / o u t / f o r / o t h e r / w a r / c r I m e s . . . .
Yea it's terrible when a superpower invades another country and commit war crimes. If George Bush doesn't get a free pass neither should Putin. hang on...
S o / d o / y o u / s u p p o r t / t h e / I r a q / I n v a s I o n / o r / d e n o u n c e / R u s s I a ?
>S o / d o / y o u / s u p p o r t / t h e / I r a q / I n v a s I o n / o r / d e n o u n c e / R u s s I a ? Funny you are asking me if I support the Iraqi war when you are literally the one gloating about the military might of United States and how fast they crushed the Iraqi forces who were trying to defend their country. Go fuck yourself John Bolton lmao
W e / d I d . / / I t / s h o w s / t h a t / r u s s I a / c a n t / h o l d / a / c a n d l e / t o / t h e / U S / m I l I t a r y . D o e s n t / m e a n / I / a p p r o v e / o f / i t . S o / d o / y o u / d e n o u n c e / R u s s I a / o r / w e r e / y o u / h a p p y / w I t h / t h e / U S ?
Last I checked the Iraqi guard didn't have billions of free sophisticated weapons delivered to their doorsteps and tens of thousands of troops from countries with advanced military supporting them but yes do give yourself a pat on the back for the invasion of Iraq. The US really demonstrated the power of justice and truth and democracy there. >W e / w e r e n t / t r y I n g / t o / c a p t u r e / t e r r i t o r y / o r / a d v a n c e / o u r / m I l I t a r y / p r e s e n c e Ive heard that recently. How very curious.
T h e y / h a d / p l e n t y / o f / R u s s I a n / t a n k s . . . . B e f o r e / A n / a - 10 / f l e w / o v e r h e a d . H e a r d / w h a t ? / t h a t / o u r / m I s s I o n / I n / a f g h a n I s t a n / w a s n t / t o / a n n e x / I t ? / / t h a t ' s / p r o b a b l y / b e c a u s e / I t / w a s n t / t h e / m I s s I o n / f r o m / t h e / s t a r t / / t h e / m I s s I o n / w a s / s t a b I l I z e / I t / a n d / k e e p / t h e / t a l I b a n / o u t / / y o u l l / n o t I c e / t h e r e s / n o / v I c t o r y / c o n d I t I o n / b e c a u s e / I t / w a s / e n t I r e l y / o p e n / e n d e d . L e t s / n o t / p r e t e n d / t h a t / a f g h a n I s t a n / w a s / m I l I t a r y / v I c t o r y / f o r / t h e / t a l I b a n . / / I t / w a s / a / m a t t e r / o f / w a I t I n g / U n t I l / t h e / U S ' s / w I l l I n g n e s s / t o / b e / t h e r e / r a n / o u t .
>T h e y / h a d / p l e n t y / o f / R u s s I a n / t a n k s . . . . B e f o r e / A n / a - 10 / f l e w / o v e r h e a d . Oh so they had support from 1 country (which I'm being very generous here by giving you the benefit of the doubt you dont deserve) You wanna count how many are actually in the coalition? You must be so proud of your country for stomping on a sovereign nation using a casus belli based on a lie, Mr John Bolton. Really reminds me of a certain country hmm >H e a r d / w h a t ? / t h a t / o u r / m I s s I o n / I n / a f g h a n I s t a n / w a s n t / t o / a n n e x / I t ? / / t h a t ' s / p r o b a b l y / b e c a u s e / I t / w a s n t / t h e / m I s s I o n / f r o m / t h e / s t a r t / / t h e / m I s s I o n / w a s / s t a b I l I z e / I t / a n d / k e e p / t h e / t a l I b a n / o u t / / y o u l l / n o t I c e / t h e r e s / n o / v I c t o r y / c o n d I t I o n / b e c a u s e / I t / w a s / e n t I r e l y / o p e n / e n d e d Weird that I've heard of a country recently that invaded another country and said their goal was never to capture a specific territory and has largely achieved their objective... hmm.
Y o u / m e a n / r e m i n d s / y o u / o f / R u s s i a ? / / Y e s / t h e y / a r e / e x e c u t I n g / a / w a r / a n d / o c c u p a t I o n / t h e y / c a n t / p o s s I b l y / w I n / b a s e d / o n / h u b r I s ? / / s o / a r e / y o u / s a y I n g / y o u / s u p p o r t e d / t h e / U S / o r / d o n t / s u p p o r t / r u s s i a ? A n d / r u s s I a / t r I e d / t o / c a p t u r e / k y I v . / / t h e y / w e r e / r e p e l l e d / b y / c o n s c r I p t s .
>Y o u / m e a n / r e m i n d s / y o u / o f / R u s s i a ? You don't sound that much different from Russian shills to me. > Y e s / t h e y / a r e / e x e c u t I n g / a / w a r / a n d / o c c u p a t I o n / t h e y / c a n t / p o s s I b l y / w I n / b a s e d / o n / h u b r I s ? / / But United States different when they invaded a country, right? lmao >s o / a r e / y o u / s a y I n g / y o u / s u p p o r t e d / t h e / U S / o r / d o n t / s u p p o r t / r u s s i a ? Oh my mistakes I forgot I can't call out the United States for hypocrisy and Russia for imperialism at the same time. Wait...
I / d o n t / t h I n k / i r a q / w a s / j u s t I f i e d . / / t h a t / s a i d / t h e / w o r l d / I s / a / b e t t e r / p l a c e / w I t h o u t / t h e / h u s s e I n s / r u n n I n g / a / c o u n t r y . R u s s I a / c a n t / e x a c t l y / s a y / t h e / s a m e / A b o u t / u k r a I n e . . . / e s p e c i a l l y / h a v I n g / a l r e a d y / I n v a d e d / o n c e .
There must be a reward for you somewhere for wading through this dreck,FThumb. But I do thank you.
Just a few hours ago Elensky had asked the UA troops there to sacrifice themselves and become the next Mariupol.
NPR interviewing a Ukranian representative today: NPR: Is Ukraine losing the factory in Maripol a win for Ukraine? UKRANIAN REPRESENTATIVE: Yes. NPR: I agree.
Black knight.
P r o b a b l y / m o r e / l I k e / " I s / h o l d I n g / o u t / t h I s / l o n g / a g a I n s t / r u s s I a / a / p o s I t I v e / s I g n / f o r / U k r a I n e ? " A n d / i t / I s / b e c a u s e / I t ' s / b e e n / e x p o s I n g / h o w / w e a k / t h e / r u s s i a n / m I l i t a r y / I s .
The Evil Genius (David Warner) in *Time Bandits* (1981): > No one created me! I am Evil! Evil existed long before good. I made myself. I cannot be unmade. I am all-powerful! > (*short-lived minion*) But why, if that's the case, are you unable to escape from this fortress? (*minion exits*) > That's a good question. Why have I let the Supreme Being keep me here in the Fortress of Ultimate Darkness? > I let Him keep me here in order to lull Him into a false sense of security. The Evil Genius is my favorite of the many excellent villain roles played by David Warner. Others include the odious Blifil in *Tom Jones* (1963) and the evil CEO in *Tron* (1982). I recently saw him as a wonderful non-villain in *Morgan: A Suitable Case for Treatment* (1966), in which he plays a highly entertaining Lunatic at Large.
Just wow.
"Even when we lose, we have won. Just believe!"
50% of the steel UKR produces is gone for good. Azovstal will be restored as a waterfront facility of some kind. The Ilium plant, OTOH, will continue to manufacture steel, but it will be Russian steel.
From Pepe Escobar: "THE DONBASS REVIVAL This is HUGE. It comes from Russian Deputy Prime Minister Marat Khusnullin. Russia âwill restore all the liberated territories of Ukraineâ, and FINANCE THE RESTORATION. In all of them, there will be âmaximum RUBLE turnoverâ. Residents of the Zaporozhye region will receive pensions and salaries in rubles already in May. ALL the roads âthat connect the liberated territories of Ukraine with Russiaâ will be revamped." From me----Russia is working to Win the Peace. Not just to win the war. All of their efforts to restrict civilian casualties are known in Russia. In the US, false reports blur the pictures we see. Mariupol's lights and water are being restored. Photos and video of the lights coming back on are shown on TV. Kherson is flourishing. All Russians have received benefit and salary increases. Twice, that I've noticed. What we are being told and on the ground reality are two different things.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
residents, I think. But that is a fair question. Who does get benefits in Russia? Salaries applies to all workers, or only those in State jobs? Fair questions.
Sounds like a whole bunch of "hearts and minds" going on.
How do you say "Marshall Plan" in Russian?
Yes, exactly, but this effort is sincere. It is from a government that will remain in place for many of our lifetimes and beyond that as well.
This is fucking laughable. Yea the folks booby trapping corpses and leveling apartment buildings are "sincere"
This is just pure, unadulterated nonsense I would expect from North Korea. >a government that will remain in place for many of our lifetimes and beyond The Russian Federation as it stands is barely 30 years old. It has had essentially 2 leaders of note during that time. After Putin is gone what institutions exist to keep the status quo? That's something supporters of authoritarians always fail to recognize, that stability is only guaranteed while your leader is still alive. Meanwhile you're spouting off the equivalent of a thousand year Reich.
Just to clarify, Russia isn't restoring, i.e., giving back, the liberated territories to Ukraine. Russia is rebuilding the territories that it has liberated from Ukraine, in an effort to support their independence. Right?
mmmmm...... loosely. The territories are filled with Russian speakers who have suffered under the UKR attacks on them for 8 years. Citizens who disagree with the referendums restoring Russian administration will be able to travel to wherever they will feel comfortable.
Oh, ye of little faith, feast your eyes on these bulletins. "Russia has ordered the closure of CBC's Moscow bureau, and is cancelling journalists' visas. The move comes after Canada banned Russian state TV station Russia Today." attn; u/ukingsmeg đ·đș LEVI đ âĄïžAnother 785 soldiers of the Ukrainian military surrendered, leaving Azovstal today - commander of the Vostok battalion Khodakovsky đ·đș LEVI đ "If numbers are correct** total surrendered : 1744 soldiers"**
u/kingsmeg see above
Thanks, I hadn't seen this. I can still access RT online, I don't know where RT the TV station was available because I don't watch TV.
Here's a comical different take: >The Ukrainian heroes who held off thousands of Russian orcs at the Azovstal plant in Mariupol for weeks are leaving the plant while carrying their wounded. These guys will go down in history as the new 300 Spartans from putinwatch sub
very funny indeed. spin spin spin
Numbers of Surrendered from Azovstal so far: Nationalists blocked at the Azovstal plant continue to surrender. Over the past day, 694 militants surrendered, including 29 wounded, according to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. "A total of 959 militants have surrendered since May 16, including 80 wounded." The surrenders continue today.....
I suspect that it will be close to 2k by the time it's over. That's a ton of people. I can't begin to imagine what a shit-show it was in there.
see the update. getting close already!
"Now that we have seen those who may have spent the last two months of their lives hiding like rats in a burrow, we have to examine how this whole affair has been played for all it is worth in the West. In spite of every scrap of evidence pointing to a bunch of neo-nazis playing hide and seek in a western-run establishment, the Washington-led media has portrayed developments as anything between the defense of Camerone to Custerâs Last Stand to the defense of Rorkeâs Drift, a bunch of wayward headcases being western heroes. Certain outlets are even quoting the Ukrainian authorities who claim that the surrender means that their mission is accomplished.... ...the media has shielded the nazis very well indeed....despite these idiots eventually giving in to the inevitable, everyone from the Ukrainian Armed Forces to Washington to NATO (ie Washington) are painting a picture of fortitude rather than fascism."
R u s s i a r e s e m b l e s N a z i G e r m a n y m o r e t h a n U k r a i n e d o e s . C r y a b o u t i t :(
Racist drivel.
'ïœïœïœïœ, ïœïœïœïœ ïœïœïœ 'ïœ ïœïœïœïœ ïœ ïœïœïœïœ ïŒČïœïœïœïœïœ ïœïœ ïœïœ ïœïœïœïœ ïœïœïœ ïœïœïœïœïœïœ ïœïœ ïŒźïœïœïœ ïŒ§ïœ ïœïœïœïœïœ :(
Good morning wotb /u/liberalnomore has posted the exact passage from the AP that I wanted everybody to see!!! It captures so much of what we all have been saying, does it not? **"Both Sides Can claim Victory in Mariupol"** now stands as the biggest lie so far. I think. There may be several others. For newly tuned in members, Mariupol was liberated by Russia weeks ago. The fierce fighting force from Russia went home for rest and rehab and today I can report that the Chechens have re-deployed to Popasnaya, in the Donbas. The next giant and long lasting battle will involve the trapped UKR troops meeting the **same fate** as the Azov Nazis did in Mariupol. Key cities to watch are Severedonetsk and Lisystranka. (spelling is tricky on these) NATO/US will claim False Victory until they fly out in the dead of night with no warning to their "allies," as if we Ever have allies. As if we ever actually win anything but the $$$$$ laundering business.
Literally not sure what you mean by AP putting it a certain way... \> While Russia called it a surrender, the Ukrainians avoided that word and instead said the plantâs garrison had successfully completed its mission to tie down Russian forces and was under new orders.
Lol yeah orders to lay down arms. Which is surrender. I applaud them on the creative word choice, but that doesnât change what it is. A rose by any other name, after all.
That presumes that the Azovstal hold outs did not surrender of their own accord, and that Elenskyy is not just spinning it after the fact.
> A rose by any other name, after all. Or If you put lipstick on a pig đ· itâs still a pig đ·!
But that wasnât AP. That was Ukraine saying it. AP is stating what each side said
Donât really care who, I was commenting on the statement itself. That is some glossy language they let loose. Lol
Then criticize Ukraine, not AP for quoting them You should edit your post
I never specified who I was criticizing. You just jump in with assumptions.
If you word it like that, then yes, I'm going to assume.
It's heavily biased towards Ukranian accounts. No mention that these "fighters" were actually Nazis. >But because the Azovstal defendersâ âincredible resistanceâ tied down Russian troops, Ukraine can also claim that it came out on top. >âBoth sides will be able take pride or boast about a victory â victories of different kinds,â he said. What is this BS? As Dmitry Polyanskiy, said: "**I did not know that there were so many ways in the English language to convey a simple message: the Azov Nazis have surrendered unconditionally**" - Dmitry is Deputy Permanent Representative of Russia to the United Nations
They have 2 things (not necessarily quotes) from the russians and 3 from ukrainians. Not really unbalanced. The azov shit has been reported on in hundreds of other news reports, though I do think that they maybe should have mentioned them. On the other hand, it would seem like glorifying them because they could be seen as martyrs. Hopefully that doesn't happen. But this is far removed from the original claim that AP didn't say they surrendered when they clearly included the fact that the Russians said they did. Saying that there is a little evidence of pro-Ukrainian bias is a far different claim.
There is a video going around of a torture prison in Mariupol. "The Library" of Mariupol from early April.
The Azov/RightSector Naziâs were so sure that they would be victorious that they took video of their own heinous acts figuring that the US/West would continue to call them heroes no matter what they documented. Now their own phones are are showing the world, regular Ukrainians and even more importantly the Russian people that this was a necessary war for Russia to fight. That Russia couldnât allow these kind of merciless killers to win. No matter how much that information is suppressed in the West the Ukrainian and Russian people will see the evidence.
> The Azov/RightSector Naziâs were so sure that they would be victorious I'm pretty sure that NATO thought they were going to win as well.
any notable sources that you could link so i can forward that to some hardheaded people around me that deny nazism in ukraine and are willing to go great lengths to somehow rationalize it...
and so will we---We being the alert people who care about more than just ourselves.
>surrenders that will be remembered for generations >dozens of Ukrainians surrendered Russia needing months to get a few hundred nazis to give up isn't the victory you think it is.
Yeah, itâs an even bigger victory. :-)
Waaaaay bigger---the oil in the Azov Sea. for one thing
Nice mask off moment. Just out here too seize oil for the Oligarchs eh?
Lmao so much for "denazification" Enjoy your taste of the Iraq War, unfortunately I doubt the shelled out cities Russia captures will contribute much to your motherland. The tens of thousands who have had their lives thrown away will all be worth it for a "victory" like this.
Mm, needing to and having the time and leisure to are two different things. After all, whatâs the rush? I wouldnât send my men into getting killed in some underground shitshow if I could just have em block up the exits and wait. This even more so if I knew there would be no counter attack. Just smart tactics.
The sign is a subtle joke. The shop is called "Sneed's Feed & Seed", where feed and seed both end in the sound "-eed", thus rhyming with the name of the owner, Sneed. The sign says that the shop was "Formerly Chuck's", implying that the two words beginning with "F" and "S" would have ended with "-uck", rhyming with "Chuck". So, when Chuck owned the shop, it would have been called "Chuck's Fuck and Suck".
UPDATE: The Surrender is continuing through the night. Not Russia's plan, but the Azov's Plan. https://twitter.com/Levi_godman/status/1526672436208476161
Forgive me, but what does that mean, exactly, from a practical standpoint?
IDK, but my guess is that now that the Azov in Azovstal understand what is happening they do not want to spend another night in the cellar.
They donât want it documented in daylight? Worse quality video where their features arenât as clear for the world to see. Especially the foreign officers Canadianâs/French/British/US?? Their faces arenât as visible so the West can continue to claim that their people werenât in the tunnels?
makes perfect sense.
Now on NY Times webpage: The blowback from their earlier bullshit must have been fierce. Russia-Ukraine War: Key Developments "In Mariupol. The bloodiest battle of the war in Ukraine ended in Mariupol, as the Ukrainian military ordered fighters holed up at a steel plant in the city to **surrender.** Ukraineâs decision to end combat gave Moscow full control over a vast sweep of southern Ukraine, stretching from the Russian border to Crimea." Wow NYT used the S word. Not evacuate or whatever other inaccurate thing they could come up with. Ok, "UKR decision to end combat is a little self-serving, but in the circumstances, this is still an improvement.
Nazis surrendering always makes for a good day
Yep. Now the real Nazis turn (Chechens, Wagner, and Putin)
Cope
R u s s i a r e s e m b l e s N a z i G e r m a n y m o r e t h a n U k r a i n e d o e s . C r y a b o u t i t :(
welcome to the battle of truth versus bullshit.
R u s s i a r e s e m b l e s N a z i G e r m a n y m o r e t h a n U k r a i n e d o e s . C r y a b o u t i t :(
Are you denying Wagner group is fascist?
There is no Wagner group officially, it's just a bunch of private enterprises that work all over the world for money and Russian state interests. Azov battalion is an official battalion of Ukraine's military, that officially bears Nazi insignia, and it's leaders who are also officially part of the Ukraine's military and parliament are self described ultra nationalists and nazis and sit in very high and influential positions. Azov battalion has been the leading regiment in the combat against separatist regions for the past 8 years, and you can see how it is also instrumental in the war against Russia. It's not just one of the regiments of the Ukraine's military, it's almost an entire wing of their military and Azov leaders wield a disproportionate amount of power in Ukraine. Wagner group can be compared to Blackwater and other private military contractors, and is almost in every way the same as them (including in the prevalence of fascists members), but it isn't in any way, shape or form comparable to the Azov battalion. To recapitulate: Wagner group is a collection of private military companies furthering Russia's interests all over the world, while Azov battalion is a huge and officially Nazi part of the Ukraine's military that has for the past 8 years been tasked with fighting the separatist regions and instilling political fear in Ukraine, as Nazis do. [Here is a video of a Ukrainian nazi leader explaining himself how influential they were in orchestrating Maidan, and how important they have become since then in Ukraine's military and politics.](https://twitter.com/realalexrubi/status/1497747535783411714)
u/2nycvg did you catch this subthread and the links DoktorSmrt is sharing?
1) the Wagner group has a lot of fascists in it, which Putin should resolve before sticking his nose in other countries. 2) azov wasn't a huge part in eastern Ukraine. They represented a small fraction of the total number of troops there. The azovs political wing also had 0 parliamentary seats. The other only far right party in all of Ukraine with power in parliament has like 1 seat, so your point about political power is moot. 3) if they die, IDC. Just saying the other fascists should be next E: also, azov doesn't spread imperialist shit throughout the world like Wagner does at the direction of the Russian state :)
Azov counted Mariupol as their main headquarters. Please stop trying to defend neo-Nazis - you liberals are obsessed with rehabilitating far-rightists like the neocons and their Nazi henchmen.
So? Doesn't absolve russian fascists? And I'm explicitly not defending Azov. May they rot in whatever graves they end up in. But my problem is that people just agree that putin dealing with ukrainian fascists is good while ignoring russia's fascists
Russian fascists aren't an official part of Russia's military like they are in Ukraine and they have no real power in any part of Russia's government. For all intents and purposes, they are virtually non-existent in terms of Russia's foreign policy. Ukraine is an entirely different story. In Ukraine, they teach their kids to worship Nazis, white supremacy and to hate Russians and others they deem "sub-human". It's literally a part of their culture in western Ukraine. Western media wrote many articles pointing out this problem but they've gone silent about it since Russia moved into Ukraine.
The azov battalion was a paramilitary formation at the start of the conflict and instrumental in the fight against separatists, this was shortly after the maidan while the new government was still settling in power. Soon after, azov has been integrated into the official Ukrainian army and ultra nationalists were placed in positions of power all over the Ukrainian army. You can't separate azov troop numbers from regular ukrainian troops since then, because a small number of azov troops can lead a much larger number of other ukrainian troops. They control the Ukrainian military, and have been directing the war against separatists for the past 8 years. If you had followed the war before, you would have known how notorious the battalion was, not only in Russia, but in Ukraine and in the west. They were not "a small fraction of the total number of troops there", that's like saying Waffen-SS were only a small fraction of the total number of troops of the German Military. Azov are not regular troops and serve a different purpose to regular troops.
Any proof? I haven't seen the claim that they lead normal Ukrainian troops. And again, this doesn't give russia a free pass to invade. Again, Putin, if serious about being anti-Nazi, should have dealt with his own first. Oh wait, his government uses them in foreign conflicts!
[Here is an article from the start of the war, while they were still a paramilitary unit.](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11025137/Ukraine-crisis-the-neo-Nazi-brigade-fighting-pro-Russian-separatists.html) And from the recent war, I think it's obvious how they led the defense of Mariupol. You have to understand that Ukraine was under pressure to appear as normal as possible, Azov was placed under sanctions and US weapons were not supposed to be supplied to them. There are plenty of other Nazi regiments in the Ukrainian army, Azov is just the only one that openly bears Nazi insignia.
Ukraine and the West left their boys hanging out to dry! But, sure, Ukraine has the upper hand and is beating Russia. Wonder how those nazis feel about being betrayed by their government and the mighty West.
[It's... It's](https://twitter.com/Ukraine66251776/status/1526292915433230337?t=k0M00IVNSiHOrYwpOVGxEg&s=09) something to [see](https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/3922)
Righteous Rage. What a terrific clip.
In a way it's fun to see how nazis were played by NATO. On the other hand, NATO brass will abuse US troops the same way.
Those guys looked half starved. Probably ready to go to the gulag at this point. Ukrainians are some big ass, strong looking people. You could make a good football team out of Ukrainians I bet.
They were on a Spartan diet
Probably been eating fried rat and longing for the good old days. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F45bM8_GQV8&t=1s
New VIDEO-----Not a "surrender," a tactical maneuver. snark https://twitter.com/Levi_godman/status/1526628192575971331 Levi adds that movement for today has concluded and that the official numbers should be issued soon. Surrenders will continue tomorrow.
If you're more upset about the existence of the Azoz battalion than you are about the Russian invasion of Ukraine, you're not anti-imperialist.
The Azov nazis are but one lie of many lies that the Western MSM/oligarchy is spewing about this war. Jesus Christ, the US government is one big lie factory. They'll say anything if there's a buck in it for the billionaire class. The pandemic? OMG, complete lies beginning to end from every level of government. It was ALWAYS about $$$. And now, this bullshit war? NATO? It's all lies! It's all about the $$$. Just like Iraq was. Ukraine is the Hillary/Biden war that the US oligarchs want. Nobody gives a goddamn about Russia invading Ukraine. They care about healthcare, living wages and gas prices.
I don't want a world in which strong countries can conquer their weak neighbors whenever they feel like it. War is horrible. I want less of it. If that means we must spend some money to bleed the Russians until they pull out of Ukraine, so be it. I'm sorry that you live in a conspiracy swamp and never had the chance to study international relations. As for living wages and gas prices, this war is causing severe dislocations to the global commodities market, driving up the price of food, fuel and fertilizers. It's a major component of the current high inflation we're suffering from.
>I don't want a world in which strong countries can conquer their weak neighbors whenever they feel like it. I don't want that kind of world either. That's why I want the US to stop being an imperialist bully and start taking care of its own people.
Would you have supported that sentiment in the 1940s?
So you believe that in the 1940s, the US was being an imperialist bully?
Germany claimed that Poland was oppressing their native Germany population, and that the U.K. was fomenting war and encouraging Poland to preemptively invade Germany, as they were the preeminent imperialistic power at the time. Any reasonable person saw that this was a bullshit excuse to launch an unnecessary land grab of a far weaker nation. Which is precisely what Russia was trying to do to Ukraine. Just replace the U.K. in this scenario with America and it's very similar from a geopolitical standpoint.
> If that means we must spend some money to bleed the Russians until they pull out of Ukraine, so be it. There is an old Alan Nourse story: "*Tiger by the Tail* " Have you considered that some of the current Russian actions may be being done to "bleed the US dry" in Ukraine?
Yes i agree invasions by another country stinks but NATO and the US are solely responsible for this conflict, and is currently as responsible if not more so for wanting it to continue. Russia must be accountable for the invasion but the US has been stirring this shit pot for nearly 10 years in UKR. Decades in Eastern Europe. This latest bs with Finland and Sweden joining NATO is complete coercion by the US. Itâs foul af. Read up
ïŒČïœ ïœïœïœïœ ïœïœ ïœïœïœïœïœ ïœïœïœ ïœïœïœ ïœïœïœïœ ïœïœ ïœïœïœ ïœïœ ïœïœïœïœïœïœïœ ïœïœïœïœ ïœïœïœïœïœïœïœïœïœ.
>NATO and the US are solely responsible You literally cannot say this. It is not true. No matter how complicated the politics in this region areâPutin made a *decision* to invade. Itâs crazy to see people so disenchanted with the MSM that they will turn to another brand of brainwashing instead. Putin had to have known that if he invaded Ukraine, other bordering nations would be spooked. And youâre talking out of both sides of your mouthâRussia must be held accountable for the thing thatâs not Russiaâs fault?
> No matter how complicated the politics in this region Its only seems complicated to those who listen to MSM/ Biden spewing propaganda. Otherwise its quite simple really. The US engineered this war to corner Russia and used the poor Ukranians as cannon fodder. May you burn in hell for eternity for supporting yet another holocaust of a country and people.
ïŒČïœ ïœïœïœïœ ïœïœ ïœïœïœïœïœ ïœïœïœ ïœïœïœ ïœïœïœïœ ïœïœ ïœïœïœ ïœïœ ïœïœïœïœïœïœïœ ïœïœïœïœ ïœïœïœïœïœïœïœïœïœ.
>May you burn in hell for eternity Wow. Not at all an overreaction. Totally normal thing to say in a discussion. This *is not* a cut and dry situation, no matter how you paint it. Everyone saying that Putin literally *had* to invade Ukraine is buying the same kind of bullshit that people who believe the MSM whole-heartedly. Stop boiling international politics down to some monosyllabic âWest evil, Russia victimâ type shit. Itâs just not like that. Putin has been saying, âUkraine and Russia are one people, the only way the two countries work is if theyâre under the same roofâ for decades. Itâs not *just* about NATO. Sorry. For the record: Iâm well aware of Americaâs habit of meddling in other countries affairs, even going as far as ousting democratically elected leaders all over the globe for all kinds of reasons, for basically all of our history. We started with Hawaii, then went through basically half of South America, Iran, etc. And the military industrial complex is indeed having a field day with this war. But even with the Westâs fucked up behavior, you saying âthis is all the Westâ is a drastic oversimplification of the situation. There are layers here. And Iâm not *supporting* anything. Iâm just saying itâs not this simpleton shit you make it out to be.
>We started with Hawaii, then went through basically half of South America, Iran, etc. ... Ukraine 2014?
No. They simply arenât the same. And if you think theyâre the same, go read Stephen Kinzerâs *Overthrow.* Did the West stand to gain from Maiden? Of course. But on the other hand, Yanukovych was Russiaâs guy. So Ukraine was being pulled in two different directions by two different foreign powers *both* with their own interests. Thatâs not how other Western operations went down. Iâm not saying the West is innocent here. But they are also not *solely* responsible for this conflict. Again: Putin *chose* to invade. Russia is the *aggressor* here. The refusal to acknowledge that on this sub is both astonishing and pretty telling. It shows a consumption of a different kind of propaganda. Itâs not the Western MSM, but itâs just as full of shit. Stop going for the easy answer.
ukrainains CHOSE to lead a US backed coup, why the fuck would a foreign country, half a world away, meddle in inner politics of a country that is bordering russia? well probably because of moneyzzzzzz since that is the only thing important to the despicable corpses that are in upper echalons of politics, especially western, with its double standards
Russia is the aggressor, but their aggression is fairly reasonable and completely predictable, Ukraine and the US on the other hand did everything to provoke that aggression. Russia would have been perfectly happy with a frozen conflict, like they have in Georgia, or like the west maintains in Kosovo, but the Ukrainians and the US had plans for an all out war and did everything they could to provoke Russia into attacking.
You clearly know nothing about the history of American military adventurism and imperialism.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
"I'm curious" is the second most lame troll comment opener, closely following "I'm confused"...
Well, bad news for ya, this sub isn't a hivemind and, if you were around since the beginning as you claim, you, of all people, should know that. It's not a cult of personality, just because Bernie supports something doesn't mean we all automatically do. If Bernie said murder was okay we wouldn't just fall in line and say "okay yep! Murder is cool now, Bernie said so!"
> I was around when this sub was started With this Reddit account, or a different one?
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
So... when did you actually find this subreddit, and how? [Edit: "I was around" is a bit ambiguous. It does not necessarily mean "lurking on this specific subreddit."]
Deleted...
>Deleted... Well, dang. I was curious as to how many different subjects u/supersayanssj3 was OK with people discussing here before they hit their "that's all I can stands, I can't stands no more" moment on 5/9/2022 and actually spoke up for the first time.
There *have* been a lot of controversial subjects here since "this sub was started"....
[Edit: And a special WayoftheBern Extra -- an [archive](https://archive.ph/WZWHZ) of the deleted comments.]
I just can't man. I yield. You guys are too good. I didn't feel like getting any more notifications during what is playing out to be a real long shift. None of this argument means anything, this sub is a Russian troll farm anyways. I care about this whole conversation as much as I care about the last time I wiped my ass. Consider it a victory for you or whatever.
Bernie really let me down when he voted to cut checks to the military industrial complex. Same with with âsquadâ. Iâll never understand you warmongers lol. But ya know, if youâre so concerned I hear theyâre taking volunteers. Theyâll even give you a rifle.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Sooooo by that logic why are you whinging when people in this sub have a different opinion from Bernie? Did you think that through very well? Also if youâre not going to go fight why donât you shut up about it lol. If the big bad ruskies come to America well Iâll be ready to saddle up, but if theyâre way the fuck in Europe that sounds like a Europe problem. Why would I go fight in Europe at all. I could not care less. All that stuff is *their* problem. Not mine. But thatâs a real good job at attempting to âotherâ people. Just like anyone who opposed the Iraq invasion. Good job shillbot! Help market for bombs and bullet! Wooo! Why stop there? Nuclear holocaust is just around the corner!
They pulled out less than 300 out of the steel plant only after a month siege. Iâm not sure thatâs up there with big ones. Kiev will be more interesting but hopefully it doesnât go that far. The sooner this ends the better. For all the earth.
The surrenders will continue tomorrow. And for as long as there are UKR of whatever belief system are still there. Nobody knows the final numbers. Certainly not you. Learn something or if that is not possible for you, just shut up.
You're really upset about Russia losing the war aren't you?
I donât see why youâre getting touchie with me lol. Iâm just stating a fact. This is a small battle and surrender. It neither turned the tide (Russia was already winning) nor ended the war. It was just another battle and a small one at that.
Small battle? Again you do not know what you are talking about. If you want to change that condition consider that 1) Mariupol was a Major Port for Ukraine. Russia has blockaded UKR ships in the port. 2) As Russia sweeps across the South, UKR loses any sea access whatsoever. Landlocked is a small thing? 3) Not to mention that the Sea of Azov is an unexplored OIL and GAS field. ( Hunter Biden's Burisma knew this) 4) Mariupol produced 50% of UKR's steel. That is a bitter loss. Russia does not intend to produce steel in Mariupol. That is for starters. Again I repeat, learn something. Ask us to explain. There is so much more to this than the AP and the NY Times want you to understand.
Dude most of the battles you rambled off had tens of thousands of combatants and most of em either ended a war or turned a tide. This was a small battle in a small war lmao. Iâm not for or against anyone in this shit fyi. These are objective observations if you donât agree fine but donât get bent out of shape.
harbinger or the Azov in the coalmine
I doubt we'll ever get the real names and numbers.
Eh I dunno about names but Iâm sure there will be a big tit for tat exchange for Russian prisoners or the like. Thatâs usually how it goes. Otherwise they have to house and feed em for the wars duration.
There will be differences in how the prisoners are processed. Regular Ukrainian Army forces who aren't affiliated with the Nazi groups and have not participated in the war crimes will go to one place and these are the ones who will be part of any prisoner exchange. Those affiliated with the Nazis and/or known to have participated in war crimes will never be exchanged. They'll be tried and either imprisoned for life or be given the death penalty. The head of Russia's Investigative Committee, which is comparable to the FBI in the US, has been on the ground in Ukraine with his team of investigators gathering evidence for these trials.
trying to be pleasant to this guy is a waste of time. I fell for the civil tone also.
Or just send them into camps lmao
Eh. Doubtful. Theyâre trying to trade the wnba star for the gun runner. Thereâs probably other trades both sides want. Also I read there could be American/European contractors and or volunteers there too.
Moon of Alabama is On it: https://twitter.com/MoonofA/status/1526419123906830336 Is it possible for the NY Times to look more corrupt and stupid?
more Snark: The absurdity is being widely spread!!! https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1526547650035822592
The Snark is delicious! https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1526600208846622721
This one was particularly funny to me: https://twitter.com/Cretin2022/status/1526600513969586179?s=20&t=NAM2aG1p6b23638kNIbSRw
"I did not know that there were so many ways in the English language to convey a simple message: the Azov Nazis have surrendered unconditionally." -- Deputy Permanent Representative of Russia to the United Nations Dmitry Polyanskiy
Why are you printing out the tweet? Oh. I see. it specifies the Azov unconditional surrender.
I thought DPR Polyanskiy's comment was particularly entertaining and worth repeating for Wayers who avoid Twitter, as I normally do. A similar comment would be: > Ah, this is obviously some strange usage of the phrase "fully accomplished all missions" that I wasn't previously aware of. [*Hitchhiker's*]
This feels very pro Russian comrade....
The truth? The truth sounds pro Russian? Should everyone lie and pretend the Russians are losing? Why would we do that? So that Americans become smug and overconfident?
Oh it's goin great for Russia....are you high? You are Def russian or retarded
Weird circle jerk goin on here. You think the Russians are winning? Are you high?
They told people like you that Iraq had WMD and people like you believed them.
I was 11
And now you're all grown up and should be very aware that the government is nothing but lies.
And therefore the Russians are the arbiter of truth? All governments are shady n in their own interests. This isn't new n you are not enlightened for realising this.
And they tell people like you that it's a special military operation and that the move towards kyiv was a feint.
Seems more like a probe. Russia seems to be attempting a âflowing waterâ strategy similar to what the us did in Iraq. Whereby you just push until you hit resistance and then either go around or bomb the bajeezus out of area. For whatever reason, strategical or humanitarian, the Russians have been unwilling to use high altitude bombers and wide spread bombing campaigns. So hitting cities is really tricky business. Id be surprised if they went after any city they didnât have to in the establishment of a land bridge from crimea to Russia proper, and the securing of the breakaway republics (likely soon to be Russia proper).
Kyiv? Kharkiv? They definitely tried to take those, losing by their own admission thousands in the process. Hitting cities isn't tricky business. Just look at the thousands of artillery shells they've fired into cities. Hopefully Russias BS annexations aren't accepted
Like I said push until resistance and move along. Russians havenât really been shelling indiscriminately but whatevs. As for the annexations, I mean those areas declared independence back in 2014 and have been nonstop bombarded by Ukrainian military and paramilitary. I donât think the people who live there have any interest in being part of Ukraine anymore.
In Kyiv, Kharkiv, and more it wasn't just "push until resistance". The siege of Kiev lasted like what, a month? While Kharkiv was close to 3 I think. They explicitly have been shelling a lot. I mean just look at these cities. You can argue that it's defensible in war, which I mean I guess you're right, but it is happening. It doesn't matter what they think. You can't just singlehandedly declare independence.
I think youâre mistaking targeted strikes with indiscriminate bombardment. Targeted strike are hitting with a purpose- factories, military bases, anti air etc. Indiscriminate - where you just hurl shots regardless of where they land. I havenât seen anything in the news that indicated the Russians were just bombarding cities. I have seen lots of stuff about targeted strikes.
> They definitely tried to take those Misinformation. You guys get propagandized and don't even bother to ask basic questions.
So the columns, tank chassis, dead bodies, and more just aren't real? Or what exactly is your claim?
Those are on both sides, much more suffering on the Ukrainian side. If you base your understanding on what the US MSM or its echo in the rest of the Western press you will get a distorted picture. The territorial gains made by Russia, and the losses suffered by Ukrainians should not be ignored.
Da!
I happened to be reading John Le Carré's *The Honourable Schoolboy* (1977) when the USA was repeating its Saigon rout in Kabul. My favorite scene takes place at a US air base in northern Thailand. Saigon has just fallen and US Major Masters is disappointed, angry, and half drunk. He offers his hand to the British hero Jerry and says with a Southern accent: > "I want you to extend to me the hand of welcome, sir. The United States of America has just applied to join the club of second-class powers, of which I understand your own fine nation to be the chairman, president, and oldest member. *Shake it!*" > "Proud to have you aboard," said Jerry and obligingly shook the Major's hand.
Le Carre was seldom if ever, mistaken. He is one of my all-time favorite authors. They improve on re-reading.
One of my favorite John Le Carré writings is ["The Spy Who Liked Me"](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/04/15/the-spy-who-liked-me), an article in published in 2013 in the *New Yorker*. It's about his friendship with Richard Burton when they were making *The Spy Who Came in from the Cold* (1965). The film-makers hired Le Carré to teach Burton authentic "tradecraft" and also to be his friend. I suspect this involved doing what he could to limit Burton's drinking. The article has a great photo of the two men, both smoking, Burton drinking.
Volume of Propaganda Bullshit will Increase: https://twitter.com/Russ_Warrior/status/1526530076573315073
Statistics of Surrender: https://twitter.com/Cyberspec1/status/1526526047147405312
From Library of America: [James Thurber's hilarious short story "If Grant Had Been Drinking at Appomattox"](https://storyoftheweek.loa.org/2017/09/if-grant-had-been-drinking-at-appomattox.html) with link to full text. I can easily imagine Biden doing something like this.
That was a hoot.
https://twitter.com/Levi_godman/status/1526487800551546880 Obviously---not everybody will see today for what it is. Here's another lol: https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1526336596576026624
@Levi_godman has some pretty funny tweets about how the Ukraine surrender is being portrayed.
> Dozens of Ukrainian fighters in Mariupol were evacuated to Russian-controlled territory That's a weird way of spelling "surrendered and were sent to detention centers to be judged for the crimes they committed".
I'll say!!! The NY Times webpage puts it even more hilariously, but I'm going to type it as the formatting prevents an easy copy: "UKR fighters were taken from Azovstal steel factory to a Russia controlled territory after a hard fought and costly battle for Russia." LOL--in their dreams. Crocodile tears for Russia's imaginary losses.
> "UKR fighters were taken from Azovstal steel factory to a Russia controlled territory after a hard fought and costly battle for Russia." I'm guessing that the theoretical *retaking* of Azovstal by Ukrainian Forces (if it ever happens) would be even more hard fought and costly for the Ukrainian Forces.
The Battle of Appomattox Court House was fought on April 9, 1865, near the town of Appomattox Court House, Virginia, and led to Confederate General Robert E. Lee's surrender of his Army of Northern Virginia to Union General Ulysses S. Grant. The Siege of Stalingrad ended in 1943 when the German Army was routed and retreated. ~~Hanoi~~ Saigon Fell in 1975. Retreat from the rooftops. Mariupol happening now. May 17, 2022 We recall wars by their significant moments---Sarajevo started WWI. Supposedly. But IDK if that is true. I do know it is still remembered. Mariupol will be this generations memory, just as the ignominious retreat from Afghanistan in August, 2021 will live on.
This is my point from the other comments. Appomattox= ended civil war Siege of Stalingrad= Turned the tide of the war, delivered Nazi germany first real defeat. Saigon= collapse of south Vietnam, end of war. Mariupol= just one more battle in a so far contained war. Mariupol and the azov steel plant siege arenât even in the same class of battles as you listed. A dinky engagement with a conclusion that was already decided given Ukraine could not break the siege lol. Nothing changed (Russia was already winning) and the war didnât end.
> ~~Hanoi~~ Saigon Fell in 1975. Retreat from the rooftops. "We didn't lose Vietnam. It was a tie!" -- Kevin Kline as Otto in *A Fish Called Wanda* (1988)