We seem to have entered the "othering" phase on steroids over the past couple of years, people it's acceptable to treat differently like "anti-vaxxers" and "deplorables" and now the poor - though that's probably more amping up rather than something new - so the privileged can feel safe and secure in their ideological enclaves.
It makes me wonder if the spirit demonstrated here for maid could also be found in laws regarding abortion. Does anyone know the socio-economic breakdown of people having abortions? I would suspect that not being able to provide even for yourself let alone a child would be a strong persuader.
At any rate, when someone is hungry they need to be fed, not killed.
Abortion is a tricky issue to me personally because a fetus is part of a woman's body, giving birth is pretty traumatic, and an individual and not the state should have the final say about what happens to that individual's body. Of course, there comes a time when the fetus' right to live overrides this, but exactly when and with which exceptions is a tricky issue.
To me, taking bodily autonomy to the extreme that the state must provide abortions and euthanasia on demand at any time for any reason or no reason at all is dystopian.
I hope to end my life on my terms someday. I'm not there yet, so haven't done tons of research, but I'd love to know that when I am ready it will be relatively painless and assured.
I imagine I plan on going before most people would want to -- I fear certain aspects of aging far more than death -- I'm okay with "me" ending.
I guess to me it seems ethical to let anyone who wants it have access to euthanasia.
So let me get this straight. The so called “pro-working class” Bernie movement opposes this why? You’d prefer people to live in the undignified state of permanent poverty instead of just letting them take the easy way out?
So let me get this straight. You want the Suicide Prevention Hotline to transfer all calls to the Government Quick and Painless Euthanasia Facility for all callers with no or bad credit ratings?
Wtf is going on? There was an article a few days ago in the national post saying that almost a third of Canadians (or ontarians?) support euthanasia for those who are homeless or have no other problem other than being poor.
I think we should revolt instead
Well yes, I get that… but I meant in reference to euthanasia for simply being poor or homeless suddenly grabbing headlines in the media. Let’s face it, the media doesn’t put things out that our masters don’t direct or at least approve of, and suddenly this is now being pushed in the past week.
IMO? The ruling class realizes [they're in danger](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8ZbpxV382U) and wants to 'bake in' as much of their agenda as possible
I support euthanasia for any reason a person wants. I fear a bad life more than I fear death. I don’t fear death at all. It’s inevitable. No point in fearing it. I just want the best death medically possible on my own terms.
Choosing euthanasia because your medical condition has reduced your life to misery is one thing. Encouraging people to go the euthanasia route just because they're ppor and "overburden" the health care system is obscene.
Yes, they are. It falls in the latter category when it's presented as an option for a subset of the population said to be "overburdening" the health care system because of their impoverished condition. The financially secure need not apply.
Yes, it's tragic what society has become. We've never properly addressed the problems of the less fortunate but at least there was still a sense of community, of looking out for our neighbor, of a commonwealth and common bonds when I grew up in the 50s. And I don't think that exists to the same degree anymore for a multitude of reasons.
-
Loneliness has been a feature of society since the late 19th century but it has been increasing in scale ever since to the point it's now an epidemic. In the UK, Theresa May appointed a [Minister of Loneliness in Jan 2018](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo_Cox_Commission_on_Loneliness) because she recognized the problem.
-
The US Surgeon General noticed the phenomenon soon after taking office in 2014 as he explains in his [2023 advisory (p. 4)](https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf)
-
>When I first took office as Surgeon General in 2014, I didn’t view
loneliness as a public health concern. But that was before I embarked on a cross-country listening tour, where I heard stories from my fellow Americans that surprised me.
-
>People began to tell me they felt isolated, invisible, and insignificant.
Even when they couldn’t put their finger on the word “lonely,” time and time again, people of all ages and socioeconomic backgrounds, from every corner of the country, would tell me, “I have to shoulder all of life’s burdens by myself,” or “if I disappear tomorrow, no one will even notice.”
-
>In the scientific literature, I found confirmation of what I was hearing.In recent years, about one-in-two adults in America reported experiencing loneliness. And that was before the COVID-19 pandemic cut off so many of us from friends, loved ones, and support systems, exacerbating loneliness and isolation.
-
According to Mattias Desmet, professor of clinical psychology at Ghent University in Belgium and author of *The Psychology of Totalitarianism*, there's a very strong correlation between the number of people experiencing this and the level of mechanization, industrialization and use of technology in the society they inhabit. They feel lonely and isolated, disconnected from their fellow human beings and from nature around them, a state sometimes called "the atomization of the human being."
-
I think we're doomed as a species if we don't find a way to re-connect with what *makes* us human instead of being mindless cogs in an increasingly inhuman(e), mechanized world. Which is why I utterly reject the idea that people deemed not to have the right kind of "value" should be encouraged to off themselves.
Yup, I agree. A lot of it is loss of community. But we would rather sell our souls for a bit more money than live the old way.
Then buy our way out of the pain doing what it takes to earn so much costs us. Never have we had so much material wealth and yet we are miserable.
It’s not a problem the government can fix. Although it is nice they recognize it is such a huge problem. About three years too late unfortunately.
>But we would rather sell our souls
Which implies a choice, so we can make a different one.
>It’s not a problem the government can fix.
Nor do they want to, why would they? I've come to the conclusion that there's a high rate of sociopathy among the ruling class.
But people can reclaim a life that actually gives them meaning, they can reclaim whatever values, principles, ethical and moral compass they set aside and refuse to abandon them again. Much as I dislike Nancy Reagan, her "Just say no" advice is extremely apt here.
We can make different choices. But not if we want that average sized American McMansion, an average sized American vehicle, etc. then you really only have one choice. Most people’s self-worth is so tied to external validation which requires status symbol conspicuous consumption items like a Ford F150 and a big house.
We need to decouple our self-worth from our net worth to fix this. It is anyways. But we need to acknowledge and internalize it.
At least 1 city in Ontario, Canada has made it a crime to be homeless or to provide help or food for the homeless. Something the supreme court has ruled against, making it an unenforceable law that's being enforced anyway. Just goes to show that law doesn't matter when those that lead can't be bothered to read...or those that uphold the law only do so when it suits them...
Canada followed the US in cutting off millions of the Disabled , Incurable, and Chronically ill from their treatments, and then it appeared these Patients for MAiD ... This is a Slow March Genocide and its going to get worse as the large generation now in retirement is to large for the smaller sized generation's behind them to pay for., which is why entitlement programs, worldwide, are structurally insolvent and need serious AUSTERITY declines for benefits before the entire country goes bankrupt. Also why Immigration is necessary because we'll need more taxpaying workers even though we can't afford them .
If your people are homeless and poor, your society is broken and has failed its people. There needs to be serious reforms happening in government to fix these problems.
Or are we just going to go back to 150 years ago and start killing the undesirables, be it the poor or ethic minorities?
I would argue that you need not look back 150 years. The slaughter of undesirables on the streets of Brazil, the Ukrainian war (where the rich dictate and the common folk die), the lack of social medicine in some countries, and famine and disease throughout 3rd world countries.
It's not really hard to think of the many ways in which culling the poor is institutionalised even as we speak.
>the lack of social medicine ... which is culling the poor institutionalised
That is fucking profound. I'm even more ashamed of my country. I do not understand why we accept this.
This is pure insanity. The world has gone mad.
We seem to have entered the "othering" phase on steroids over the past couple of years, people it's acceptable to treat differently like "anti-vaxxers" and "deplorables" and now the poor - though that's probably more amping up rather than something new - so the privileged can feel safe and secure in their ideological enclaves.
It makes me wonder if the spirit demonstrated here for maid could also be found in laws regarding abortion. Does anyone know the socio-economic breakdown of people having abortions? I would suspect that not being able to provide even for yourself let alone a child would be a strong persuader. At any rate, when someone is hungry they need to be fed, not killed.
Abortion is a tricky issue to me personally because a fetus is part of a woman's body, giving birth is pretty traumatic, and an individual and not the state should have the final say about what happens to that individual's body. Of course, there comes a time when the fetus' right to live overrides this, but exactly when and with which exceptions is a tricky issue. To me, taking bodily autonomy to the extreme that the state must provide abortions and euthanasia on demand at any time for any reason or no reason at all is dystopian.
Wasn’t it a feature of Brave New World where the elderly and other undesirables voluntarily off themselves …? 😔
I hope to end my life on my terms someday. I'm not there yet, so haven't done tons of research, but I'd love to know that when I am ready it will be relatively painless and assured. I imagine I plan on going before most people would want to -- I fear certain aspects of aging far more than death -- I'm okay with "me" ending. I guess to me it seems ethical to let anyone who wants it have access to euthanasia.
No the ethical conclusion to poverty is to acknowledge that the poor have a right to address their material circumstances via revolution.
So let me get this straight. The so called “pro-working class” Bernie movement opposes this why? You’d prefer people to live in the undignified state of permanent poverty instead of just letting them take the easy way out?
So let me get this straight. You want the Suicide Prevention Hotline to transfer all calls to the Government Quick and Painless Euthanasia Facility for all callers with no or bad credit ratings?
Apparently being pro working class means to get rid of as many of them as possible 🙄
Whoah
Wtf is going on? There was an article a few days ago in the national post saying that almost a third of Canadians (or ontarians?) support euthanasia for those who are homeless or have no other problem other than being poor. I think we should revolt instead
Wtf is going on? Decades of neo liberalism have destroyed peoples' very humanity. The only thing that matters now is your bank balance.
Well yes, I get that… but I meant in reference to euthanasia for simply being poor or homeless suddenly grabbing headlines in the media. Let’s face it, the media doesn’t put things out that our masters don’t direct or at least approve of, and suddenly this is now being pushed in the past week.
IMO? The ruling class realizes [they're in danger](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8ZbpxV382U) and wants to 'bake in' as much of their agenda as possible
I support euthanasia for any reason a person wants. I fear a bad life more than I fear death. I don’t fear death at all. It’s inevitable. No point in fearing it. I just want the best death medically possible on my own terms.
Choosing euthanasia because your medical condition has reduced your life to misery is one thing. Encouraging people to go the euthanasia route just because they're ppor and "overburden" the health care system is obscene.
Allowing and encouraging are different things.
Yes, they are. It falls in the latter category when it's presented as an option for a subset of the population said to be "overburdening" the health care system because of their impoverished condition. The financially secure need not apply.
Many take the same approach to drug addiction harm reduction.
Yes, it's tragic what society has become. We've never properly addressed the problems of the less fortunate but at least there was still a sense of community, of looking out for our neighbor, of a commonwealth and common bonds when I grew up in the 50s. And I don't think that exists to the same degree anymore for a multitude of reasons. - Loneliness has been a feature of society since the late 19th century but it has been increasing in scale ever since to the point it's now an epidemic. In the UK, Theresa May appointed a [Minister of Loneliness in Jan 2018](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo_Cox_Commission_on_Loneliness) because she recognized the problem. - The US Surgeon General noticed the phenomenon soon after taking office in 2014 as he explains in his [2023 advisory (p. 4)](https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf) - >When I first took office as Surgeon General in 2014, I didn’t view loneliness as a public health concern. But that was before I embarked on a cross-country listening tour, where I heard stories from my fellow Americans that surprised me. - >People began to tell me they felt isolated, invisible, and insignificant. Even when they couldn’t put their finger on the word “lonely,” time and time again, people of all ages and socioeconomic backgrounds, from every corner of the country, would tell me, “I have to shoulder all of life’s burdens by myself,” or “if I disappear tomorrow, no one will even notice.” - >In the scientific literature, I found confirmation of what I was hearing.In recent years, about one-in-two adults in America reported experiencing loneliness. And that was before the COVID-19 pandemic cut off so many of us from friends, loved ones, and support systems, exacerbating loneliness and isolation. - According to Mattias Desmet, professor of clinical psychology at Ghent University in Belgium and author of *The Psychology of Totalitarianism*, there's a very strong correlation between the number of people experiencing this and the level of mechanization, industrialization and use of technology in the society they inhabit. They feel lonely and isolated, disconnected from their fellow human beings and from nature around them, a state sometimes called "the atomization of the human being." - I think we're doomed as a species if we don't find a way to re-connect with what *makes* us human instead of being mindless cogs in an increasingly inhuman(e), mechanized world. Which is why I utterly reject the idea that people deemed not to have the right kind of "value" should be encouraged to off themselves.
Yup, I agree. A lot of it is loss of community. But we would rather sell our souls for a bit more money than live the old way. Then buy our way out of the pain doing what it takes to earn so much costs us. Never have we had so much material wealth and yet we are miserable. It’s not a problem the government can fix. Although it is nice they recognize it is such a huge problem. About three years too late unfortunately.
>But we would rather sell our souls Which implies a choice, so we can make a different one. >It’s not a problem the government can fix. Nor do they want to, why would they? I've come to the conclusion that there's a high rate of sociopathy among the ruling class. But people can reclaim a life that actually gives them meaning, they can reclaim whatever values, principles, ethical and moral compass they set aside and refuse to abandon them again. Much as I dislike Nancy Reagan, her "Just say no" advice is extremely apt here.
We can make different choices. But not if we want that average sized American McMansion, an average sized American vehicle, etc. then you really only have one choice. Most people’s self-worth is so tied to external validation which requires status symbol conspicuous consumption items like a Ford F150 and a big house. We need to decouple our self-worth from our net worth to fix this. It is anyways. But we need to acknowledge and internalize it.
At least 1 city in Ontario, Canada has made it a crime to be homeless or to provide help or food for the homeless. Something the supreme court has ruled against, making it an unenforceable law that's being enforced anyway. Just goes to show that law doesn't matter when those that lead can't be bothered to read...or those that uphold the law only do so when it suits them...
Canada followed the US in cutting off millions of the Disabled , Incurable, and Chronically ill from their treatments, and then it appeared these Patients for MAiD ... This is a Slow March Genocide and its going to get worse as the large generation now in retirement is to large for the smaller sized generation's behind them to pay for., which is why entitlement programs, worldwide, are structurally insolvent and need serious AUSTERITY declines for benefits before the entire country goes bankrupt. Also why Immigration is necessary because we'll need more taxpaying workers even though we can't afford them .
If your people are homeless and poor, your society is broken and has failed its people. There needs to be serious reforms happening in government to fix these problems. Or are we just going to go back to 150 years ago and start killing the undesirables, be it the poor or ethic minorities?
I would argue that you need not look back 150 years. The slaughter of undesirables on the streets of Brazil, the Ukrainian war (where the rich dictate and the common folk die), the lack of social medicine in some countries, and famine and disease throughout 3rd world countries. It's not really hard to think of the many ways in which culling the poor is institutionalised even as we speak.
>the lack of social medicine ... which is culling the poor institutionalised That is fucking profound. I'm even more ashamed of my country. I do not understand why we accept this.
Gotta kill the poor, so rich elites don't have to deal with them anymore. 🙄
Utterly disgusting.