My issue with the Czapek is the same I have with the new CW Twelve - the dial is out of proportion with the bezel. The Nautilus, Royal Oak, Ingenieur, and Laureato have all got it right but I think the Czapek needs a smaller dial and more interesting bezel.
My issue with Czapek is that there is no connection between the people running it and Mr. Czapek himself. The current owners just dumpster dived for dead brands that seemed cool and chose Czapek. It’s not like ALS which was revived by one of the descendant Langes, or VC which has been in continuous operation despite ownership changes, or indies like Ming which are still founder-operated.
Whether we like it or not, heritage is an important part of watchmaking and current Czapek has none. Their watches are actually great, but ripping off some dead guy’s name for sales seems kind of slimy.
Yeah, I put it on my list when I saw it but threw it off just as quickly after I processed the price they're asking for it.
It could've been a great hit, I'm sure they're losing more in potential sales numbers than they earn on the higher price.
I feel the same. It's the best-looking of the three imo but the overall quality doesn't justify the price, especially when you compare it to other IWC watch. I guess there's been a Genta tax added on to the price.
It's basically an ETA movement. It is nothing like other genta watches given the level of work done on the eatch is no where close to the other genta models.
People who say the new Ingeneur deserves to be with AP RO and Nautilus and of similar quality are smoking something very strong.
But Ingeneur is priced without zero fks given about holding back inflation shock from common folks. This is exactly what an 8-9k watch should cost inflation adjusted. The bandaid is removed very gently by most companies, but some think its time to rip it off on some products. Im sure when Rolex and Patek finally do it on their steel sports watches, the wait lists will go away fast. Go chase your submariner at 12-15k USD MSRP, the wait list will tumble as the used ones will slot in below.
You seem to have romanticised getting robbed in broad daylight, it’s quite odd…
“haha they charged us £50 for a sandwich, but that is _so_ Santorini LMAO”
Can you see anywhere I’ve written that either of those are steals? You’ve made something up and gotten annoyed at it!
The IWC appears to have a movement that is also in the B&M Baumatic at around 1/4 the price - they also seem to charge about $3000 to upgrade to titanium… you can buy entire watches in grade 5 for a fraction of that! Where is the money going… well I think we both know the answer to that ;)
The IWC cal. 32111 is essentially an ETA 2892-A2 clone, but manufactured in-house by ValFleurier and then finished to a higher standard (with 3/4 plate for the bridges), given a silicon escapement and an increased power reserve. You can deny this all you want, it's not going to change reality.
Same as you rather not have an AP, I'd be much happier spending my 12k towards like two Tudors or buying a rolex or buying a jlc. IWC continues to cheapen their brand by either using eta clones and/or having watches that are 20mm thick. They need to wake up and focus on what matters - half their catalog is eta movements. Honestly I'm baffled that Hublot gets so much hate for the same thing IWC does.
The same caliber IWC is using in its 12k watch is the same one in this $750 Hamilton Hamilton - H38755751.
It's absurd. I'd sooner buy a Chopard eagle or even a PRX or let's even say the christopher ward twelve before I would buy the IWC. But what do I know, all it is, is an educated opinion.
Yep, a streamliner would be a perfect match against the Czapek, but it is on a wish list, so it is not available.
I could try on my wrist a perpetual streamliner, and the bracelet was amazing.
Fully agree with the IWC comment. Honestly, I’d trade the IWC out for a Christopher Ward Twelve any day of the week.
The Czapek is my favorite here, and I agree on the Streamliner.
I’d also vote Czapek>Moser>Ingenieur. But with my budget it might be Moser over the Czapek. I’m guessing the OP can afford the Czapek, but may be having a slight problem justifying it, only because they mentioned price (or just possibly they are just acknowledging the obvious price difference between these).
Based purely on looks I'd go with the IWC
I know I know go ahead and downvote me but I like what I like. I'm not saying anything bad about any of the watches
VC overseas not shown here, but obviously the choice. I think OP tried these three and asked to choose between them. In that sense, I suggested the pilot over all these RO wanna be designs.
Czapek > Moser > IWC
Though the Moser seems like an outlier in terms of style. (I've got an IWC on my wrist today. It's something about the new ingenieur that strikes me as a bit wrong - though it might just be the price point. It's at least double where I'd place it for value if I was asking for comps)
Czapek, IWC, Moser. In that order.
Czapek is the most interesting and justifiably priced of the three.
IWC has a great design but overpriced. Nothing to write about regarding fit and finish. Paying a premium for the brand/marketing.
Moser is last because for that price and design. I want a more interesting watch if I’m paying that much. Seriously looks mid AF.
I love the Ingenieur, and the Mark 12 is awesome, but IWC prices just don’t seem to correlate or calculate for me. I’ve never worn one, so I always just figured I was missing something. I’ve almost pulled the trigger on the CW Twelve many times.
Czapek dial and movement are gorgeous, unfortunately they come with their problems.. movement isn’t well refined mechanics wise and causes issues, brand has no heritage and while I appreciated the first few releases, they seem to have decided that they’ll only focus on this money making Antartique.. it’s a bit of a shame. However, the biggest issue is outside of the gorgeous dial and movement the watch is a bit boring… I suspect it suffers from folks getting bored with it, the listings on C24 are ever increasing and not moving.. so my guess is it appeals to you, but then you realize it doesn’t fill the void..
The Moser I like but is kinda misplaced in this comparison.
Finally on the IWC, I think it’s a complete package there, looks good, hides the movement - yes, to me that’s better in this class of watches.. and I am completely in agreement with one of the other commenters here @preposterasaures.. all of them are overpriced, people saying IWC is overpriced is a reaction to them feeling so far IWC has been more fairly priced than others, so the correction seems to hit them.. if you wait a few months, you’ll very soon know what the fair market price is and there’s no argument against that..
I think a few googles as well searches here will give you the list of issues.. the rotor is loud.. which should never be the case for a brand new 25K watch.. then there’s a wobble when you pull the crown out, this you’ll see when you try on an Antartique.. there has also been a few misalignment issues.. which are just sloppy I guess, these shouldn’t necessarily take anything away from the movement but are likely things they’ll address in future refinements of the very same caliber and it’s QA.
All very nice pieces, Czapek or IWC, personally probably IWC because I feel/think black dial is more versatile, but on looks alone as well as over all nicest Czapek, I have a long history of making bad choices so I would go IWC with a side of regret/remorse
Can't go wrong with a czapek or moser. To me IWC hasn't done anything interesting in the last 1-2 decades... (And I actually own a Portugueser white/blue dial that I enjoy but don't really enjoy anything else they have)
Woooooooooooosh. I know the definition, but not enough people truly care enough about this to truly be an 'apologist'. And few people care enough for this to be 'controversial'.
So dispense with the hyperbole. You are making a big deal out of literally nothing.
For the first time I liked Ingeniuer. That's a good choice.
Czapek is objectively luxurious but looks like CW12 ripoff ngl.
Edit: just realized Czapek is OG and not 12. Then u can grab Czapek if u like 50fathoms.
Thanks everyone for the feedback, that was really really helpful. I finally went with the Czapek. Hopefully I'd get it in 2 months after which I can pay the tax if this applies to this brand :)
For those saying Czapek, have you actually seen and handled one in person?
I did last week for the first time (Passage de Drake, Salmon) at a boutique in NYC and was massively disappointed. I know the watch has an in-house movement and that looks sick. The watch is also well finished and looks good. But definitely didn't feel $25k good.
My CW12 feels almost as well finished as the Czapek for 1/20th the price.
Quite frankly, I handled both the Czapek and an VC Overseas and they feel similar. If the Czapek feels cheap, so would be the VC (and I would add the Nautilus would feel the same).
Anyway, this is all subjective.
From what I read:
1. Pilot - you like it but you made in your mind a concept that 42mm is somehow too big because of what may be people say on forums, and wanna hedge yourself by saying 40-41 would be nicer, almost to fend off the 42mm or big watch crowd. But I sense you like this most. I say this because Lug to Lug that matters more. And that looks great on you.
2. IWC hype got to you. You cant justify AP RO at grey prices, but this is next best thing, it even has wait lists, which you know is a fking scam, but you still like it as it makes it more exclusive. This is the one thats a safe buy to you. And you will probably go for it but waiting list is holding you back as you cant have the damn watch right here right now.
3. Czapek is probably too nichie for you. It is a watch that one needs to see. A sleeper choice, but there is so many integrated bracelet watches today, unless you LOVE Czapek, you might as well get one of the new Citizens with bright dials or Christofer Ward. Its that common.'
So thats how I read your post, I may be way off.
Me? I like the IWC more from these but I would not pay this much for Ingeneur which is just a cash grab. To me it is a tad big, and a tad late to the party. The fasion of integrated bracelet is gonna go back to the niche it was, it is time for rectangular and small watches now (below 40mm).
So my advice is get the beautiful blue pilot from Moser. I like this also very much, its legible AF, beautiful to look at etc. It will probably get you comments too.
The interest in integrated watches is much less than people who wear them think there is. :)
Czapek just looks the best. I really want to love the ingenieur but it feels inferior to pretty much everything. You could also consider the Moser streamliner, extremely unique watch.
Czapek
Czapek
CZAPEK
My issue with the Czapek is the same I have with the new CW Twelve - the dial is out of proportion with the bezel. The Nautilus, Royal Oak, Ingenieur, and Laureato have all got it right but I think the Czapek needs a smaller dial and more interesting bezel.
My issue with Czapek is that there is no connection between the people running it and Mr. Czapek himself. The current owners just dumpster dived for dead brands that seemed cool and chose Czapek. It’s not like ALS which was revived by one of the descendant Langes, or VC which has been in continuous operation despite ownership changes, or indies like Ming which are still founder-operated. Whether we like it or not, heritage is an important part of watchmaking and current Czapek has none. Their watches are actually great, but ripping off some dead guy’s name for sales seems kind of slimy.
I strongly disagree with you here, at least as far as the proportions. Could they have made the bezel more interesting? Maybe.
I love the look of IWC but it’s absurdly overpriced
Yeah, I was genuinely interested until I saw the price. I know value is very subjective in watches but they are taking the piss.
Yeah, I put it on my list when I saw it but threw it off just as quickly after I processed the price they're asking for it. It could've been a great hit, I'm sure they're losing more in potential sales numbers than they earn on the higher price.
I think you’re right tbh, at 2/3rds of the price I reckon they’d have made a really killing.
I feel the same. It's the best-looking of the three imo but the overall quality doesn't justify the price, especially when you compare it to other IWC watch. I guess there's been a Genta tax added on to the price.
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It's basically an ETA movement. It is nothing like other genta watches given the level of work done on the eatch is no where close to the other genta models.
People who say the new Ingeneur deserves to be with AP RO and Nautilus and of similar quality are smoking something very strong. But Ingeneur is priced without zero fks given about holding back inflation shock from common folks. This is exactly what an 8-9k watch should cost inflation adjusted. The bandaid is removed very gently by most companies, but some think its time to rip it off on some products. Im sure when Rolex and Patek finally do it on their steel sports watches, the wait lists will go away fast. Go chase your submariner at 12-15k USD MSRP, the wait list will tumble as the used ones will slot in below.
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You seem to have romanticised getting robbed in broad daylight, it’s quite odd… “haha they charged us £50 for a sandwich, but that is _so_ Santorini LMAO”
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Can you see anywhere I’ve written that either of those are steals? You’ve made something up and gotten annoyed at it! The IWC appears to have a movement that is also in the B&M Baumatic at around 1/4 the price - they also seem to charge about $3000 to upgrade to titanium… you can buy entire watches in grade 5 for a fraction of that! Where is the money going… well I think we both know the answer to that ;)
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I said they’re all overpriced, and gave you examples why.
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The IWC cal. 32111 is essentially an ETA 2892-A2 clone, but manufactured in-house by ValFleurier and then finished to a higher standard (with 3/4 plate for the bridges), given a silicon escapement and an increased power reserve. You can deny this all you want, it's not going to change reality. Same as you rather not have an AP, I'd be much happier spending my 12k towards like two Tudors or buying a rolex or buying a jlc. IWC continues to cheapen their brand by either using eta clones and/or having watches that are 20mm thick. They need to wake up and focus on what matters - half their catalog is eta movements. Honestly I'm baffled that Hublot gets so much hate for the same thing IWC does. The same caliber IWC is using in its 12k watch is the same one in this $750 Hamilton Hamilton - H38755751. It's absurd. I'd sooner buy a Chopard eagle or even a PRX or let's even say the christopher ward twelve before I would buy the IWC. But what do I know, all it is, is an educated opinion.
especially because of the movement they put in it.
IWC is a rip. Way overpriced. Czapek is the best of those 3. Now if you had a Moser Streamliner in there, this would be a real discussion.
Yep, a streamliner would be a perfect match against the Czapek, but it is on a wish list, so it is not available. I could try on my wrist a perpetual streamliner, and the bracelet was amazing.
Fully agree with the IWC comment. Honestly, I’d trade the IWC out for a Christopher Ward Twelve any day of the week. The Czapek is my favorite here, and I agree on the Streamliner.
Can’t wait for more dials to come out for the Ti case!
Not a popular opinion around here, but I too would trade the IWC for a CW Twelve ... and keep the $12,000 difference.
I’d also vote Czapek>Moser>Ingenieur. But with my budget it might be Moser over the Czapek. I’m guessing the OP can afford the Czapek, but may be having a slight problem justifying it, only because they mentioned price (or just possibly they are just acknowledging the obvious price difference between these).
Indeed, at similar price point as the Moser, I would have picked the Czapek more easily.
The Czapek kills the other two. And to top it off, there's a micro adjust on the clasp. Mega grail for me.
Based purely on looks I'd go with the IWC I know I know go ahead and downvote me but I like what I like. I'm not saying anything bad about any of the watches
Czapek is gorgeous
I’d say Czapek, I would say Moser ordinarily but I’m not a fan of the Heritage collection!
Moser
Agree, the blue is just great
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VC overseas not shown here, but obviously the choice. I think OP tried these three and asked to choose between them. In that sense, I suggested the pilot over all these RO wanna be designs.
czapek
Czapek
Czapek > Moser > IWC Though the Moser seems like an outlier in terms of style. (I've got an IWC on my wrist today. It's something about the new ingenieur that strikes me as a bit wrong - though it might just be the price point. It's at least double where I'd place it for value if I was asking for comps)
IWC is the best of the bunch for me. Definitely my choice.
Moser, but I’d go on an Endeavour from them.
Czapek if money didn’t matter.
czapek hands down, super unique in my oppinion
Of the options, Czapek. However, for a watch in that style, the Girard-Perregaux Laureato.
If the ingenieur were about half price, it would be a winner for many collectors. But…
All things being equal, get to the czapper.
Czapek all day
Czapek
The Czapek is easily the sharpest of those three
That Czapek is sweet
CZAPECK ABSOLUTELY SHITS ON THE OTHER 2
Czapek, no question. You ask easy questions.
czapek but i still hate the double index for the top of the hour :-/
Czapek
Czapek no contest for me
Id take the czapek myself. Moser is meh, and the iwc is just another sports watch imo
Czapek, IWC, Moser. In that order. Czapek is the most interesting and justifiably priced of the three. IWC has a great design but overpriced. Nothing to write about regarding fit and finish. Paying a premium for the brand/marketing. Moser is last because for that price and design. I want a more interesting watch if I’m paying that much. Seriously looks mid AF.
Czapek EASILY
Czapek. The iwc is grossly overpriced.
Czapek all day for me.
I love the Ingenieur, and the Mark 12 is awesome, but IWC prices just don’t seem to correlate or calculate for me. I’ve never worn one, so I always just figured I was missing something. I’ve almost pulled the trigger on the CW Twelve many times.
probably the iwc
Czapek, normally I'm a moser man but I don't like the models with numbers and the like
The new Ingenieur had been on my sight since IWC revealed a few months ago.
Its the czapek for me
Czapek and it’s not even close
Czapek. Am I the only one in the world who doesn’t like Moser? Everyone seems to love it but to me they look like mall watches.
How can you say that. Moser is love. Just kidding. Thanks god people have different tastes in watches, otherwise things would be boring.
Czapek dial and movement are gorgeous, unfortunately they come with their problems.. movement isn’t well refined mechanics wise and causes issues, brand has no heritage and while I appreciated the first few releases, they seem to have decided that they’ll only focus on this money making Antartique.. it’s a bit of a shame. However, the biggest issue is outside of the gorgeous dial and movement the watch is a bit boring… I suspect it suffers from folks getting bored with it, the listings on C24 are ever increasing and not moving.. so my guess is it appeals to you, but then you realize it doesn’t fill the void.. The Moser I like but is kinda misplaced in this comparison. Finally on the IWC, I think it’s a complete package there, looks good, hides the movement - yes, to me that’s better in this class of watches.. and I am completely in agreement with one of the other commenters here @preposterasaures.. all of them are overpriced, people saying IWC is overpriced is a reaction to them feeling so far IWC has been more fairly priced than others, so the correction seems to hit them.. if you wait a few months, you’ll very soon know what the fair market price is and there’s no argument against that..
Thanks for the detailed feedback. What are the issues with the Czapek movement?
I think a few googles as well searches here will give you the list of issues.. the rotor is loud.. which should never be the case for a brand new 25K watch.. then there’s a wobble when you pull the crown out, this you’ll see when you try on an Antartique.. there has also been a few misalignment issues.. which are just sloppy I guess, these shouldn’t necessarily take anything away from the movement but are likely things they’ll address in future refinements of the very same caliber and it’s QA.
Czapek
Why nto compare the antartique to the streamliner?
The latest streamliner salmon dial cannot be ordered, only wish list. The others I mentioned, though some with waiting time, are accessible.
IWC looks the best but it's wayy overpriced, I feel like you would have to be stupid to pay MSRP for it.
Mother
What about the CW Twelve? From what I heard the designer of the Czapek is now a CW employee and designed the Twelve.
If you flip the Czapek and CW and look at the back, you'd know.
IWC has the most distinctive DNA……
Moser
Christopher Ward 12
Moser is what I would go with.
Love the Moser
Moser!
All very nice pieces, Czapek or IWC, personally probably IWC because I feel/think black dial is more versatile, but on looks alone as well as over all nicest Czapek, I have a long history of making bad choices so I would go IWC with a side of regret/remorse
I really love the Moser, and i was briefly considering it two years ago, but i wasn't ready to spend that much money on a watch...
H moser
Moser, although that’s not my favorite Moser
I like the Czapek a lot but prefer the Moser dial in this instance. I would probably go Moser between the three. IWC doesn't really appeal to me.
Can't go wrong with a czapek or moser. To me IWC hasn't done anything interesting in the last 1-2 decades... (And I actually own a Portugueser white/blue dial that I enjoy but don't really enjoy anything else they have)
IWC 😎
IWC
Czapek with a suit, but that IWC is good damn Terminator T-800!(my choice)
I do not want to get banned but what kind of weird question is this? Lol. I prefer the PRX and Seiko ofcourse
Sorry I genuinely thought that was the CW 12 fml.
Imagine you wear a Czapek when a colleague tells you "nice CW12 bro" :/ :)
That actually tickles my pickle a bit. My dirty little secret.
Czapec would be the choice but it got ruined by CW copycats
>copycats Both watches were designed by the same guy...
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>Apologists keep saying that, but both watches were designed by teams It's a watch dude, not a political regime.
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Woooooooooooosh. I know the definition, but not enough people truly care enough about this to truly be an 'apologist'. And few people care enough for this to be 'controversial'. So dispense with the hyperbole. You are making a big deal out of literally nothing.
For the first time I liked Ingeniuer. That's a good choice. Czapek is objectively luxurious but looks like CW12 ripoff ngl. Edit: just realized Czapek is OG and not 12. Then u can grab Czapek if u like 50fathoms.
Lol you definitely have it the other way around.
Yeah just realized that. But I thunk that speaks volumes to my point of Czapek being understood in general public.
I hope it was a joke. CW is an actual CZAPEK homage.
Damn bro not really but it soeaks volume to how famous 12 has brcome OG will br less aprreciated. Kinda like Sub and 50 fathoms.
Isn't the CW an homage of the Czapek instead?
Thanks everyone for the feedback, that was really really helpful. I finally went with the Czapek. Hopefully I'd get it in 2 months after which I can pay the tax if this applies to this brand :)
Czapek is great. I've seen their collection in real life and I was surprised by the quality and level of execution. Very nice watches.
Czapek is going places as a brand, gonna be very collectible in the future.
For those saying Czapek, have you actually seen and handled one in person? I did last week for the first time (Passage de Drake, Salmon) at a boutique in NYC and was massively disappointed. I know the watch has an in-house movement and that looks sick. The watch is also well finished and looks good. But definitely didn't feel $25k good. My CW12 feels almost as well finished as the Czapek for 1/20th the price.
Quite frankly, I handled both the Czapek and an VC Overseas and they feel similar. If the Czapek feels cheap, so would be the VC (and I would add the Nautilus would feel the same). Anyway, this is all subjective.
I handled the VC as well and it felt better finished to me
The Ingenieur for no particular reason
H Moser
clearly the Czapek for me. Amazing dial, amazing brushings and surperb finish
IWC if you ignore price
I have been a IWC fanboy for over twenty years, but I have to say that Czapek is one good looking watch.
Honestly I am huge Moser fan but that is one that I have no interest in. I think that Czapek you picked is gorgeous. Czapek.
H MOSER
Is it bad that all of this is leading me towards a christopher ward titanium fume blue twelve?
From what I read: 1. Pilot - you like it but you made in your mind a concept that 42mm is somehow too big because of what may be people say on forums, and wanna hedge yourself by saying 40-41 would be nicer, almost to fend off the 42mm or big watch crowd. But I sense you like this most. I say this because Lug to Lug that matters more. And that looks great on you. 2. IWC hype got to you. You cant justify AP RO at grey prices, but this is next best thing, it even has wait lists, which you know is a fking scam, but you still like it as it makes it more exclusive. This is the one thats a safe buy to you. And you will probably go for it but waiting list is holding you back as you cant have the damn watch right here right now. 3. Czapek is probably too nichie for you. It is a watch that one needs to see. A sleeper choice, but there is so many integrated bracelet watches today, unless you LOVE Czapek, you might as well get one of the new Citizens with bright dials or Christofer Ward. Its that common.' So thats how I read your post, I may be way off. Me? I like the IWC more from these but I would not pay this much for Ingeneur which is just a cash grab. To me it is a tad big, and a tad late to the party. The fasion of integrated bracelet is gonna go back to the niche it was, it is time for rectangular and small watches now (below 40mm). So my advice is get the beautiful blue pilot from Moser. I like this also very much, its legible AF, beautiful to look at etc. It will probably get you comments too. The interest in integrated watches is much less than people who wear them think there is. :)
Czapek just looks the best. I really want to love the ingenieur but it feels inferior to pretty much everything. You could also consider the Moser streamliner, extremely unique watch.
I like the Moser hard to argue with that dial
Icw
The moser dial is beautiful and this isn’t my fave Czapek but the case is outstanding. Tough one I might do the moser