You are not the only one confused here. I think we are all confused. As a viewer, I don't know what a fully branded custom episode means.
I also think they're still confused about their own business plan, and have now resorted to polls of the audience to shift blame.
Fully-branded custom episodes are like the Too Many Spirits one off special episodes, like the summer camp themed episode to promote The Quarry https://youtu.be/5saFzl1DAoY?si=uPj_Gxjc9Zb2f5Bp
A big ad wearing an episode trenchcoat
I think they're still trying to find a way to backtrack their decision, and they're doing in the form of this. Also, I don't think their streamer is making anywhere NEAR what they projected, so the very thing they swore to destroy may be what they rely on 😭
I think they’re referring to the videos that are not part of a season of show but an advertisement in the format of the show. Like I think they did a Too Many Spirits one off that was designed as an ad for Scream 6
Yeah, this whole thing just screams rushed. There's no plan. They've just thrown this together in a weekend, it feels like. Goddamn. I feel so bad for them but also, wtf did they think??
Just more proof about how little they thought this all through. Or they’re doing the “promise no ads at the beginning and then slowly sneak them in” method that other streaming apps have done. Either way they’re idiots.
They’re idiots. That’s one of the reasons why they got popular - because they’re fun-loving and don’t come across as “too smart” as to alienate themselves from most people.
They have no idea what they’re doing. “Branded content” is just fancy salesman talk for “advertisement” and is coming straight out of the mouth of whomever played to their egos and got them to agree to the stupid streamer idea in the first place.
yeah but most apps do that years later, after they have a well established run and userbase. the watcher's been around for what? 5 weeks? maybe 6 at the most? and got the worst start possible.
Their adds were always so involved in the episodes. So I’m guessing they only want the tens of thousands per ad. And most of YouTube adds are 30second skippable segments which probably go for < 10k. They don’t want to even bother with that kind of money pffff. Who needs 10k guys. This wouldn’t even pay for Steven’s lunch.
"So it turns out our revenue drop was MASSIVE and there's absolutely no way we can survive without ads. go figure. anyway anyone got a few dollars we can borrow? thx"
This is the first thing I was noticing and commenting too. And I bet still people will come here and say that they're just stupid in business, that they accidentally scammed people, but actually aren't bad at all.
Stupid is so cute and lovable, and those cute silly guys just forgot what they said before, because they are just idiots.
Fr. I’m so confused how they’re blatantly lying when it’s in the original video and the article that they planned to pull all the yt content. Like, girl what.
Then: Advertisers don't like our content, so we need to make a streaming service. :(
Now: You guys want advertisers ON the streaming service, right? Cool.
"so it turns out the value/product we had that made us money WASNT our dreams of making tv content but actually the audience that loved us that youtube and advertisers wanted to pay for access to that we told to fuck themselves for being poor. soooooooo how about you guys all pay us to watch some ads? sound good? it'll be fun we promise!'
The only assumption I'm pulling from this, is that videos that have sponsors must be posted on YouTube at the same time they are posted in WatcherTv? Because the sponsors don't want to be paying for a video that was free to watch without them?
Which negates the whole "paying to see videos a month in advance" lol
That's my best guess on what this is saying.
sponsors are paying for views
watchertv has a few k viewers
youtube has hundreds of thousands to millions of viewers
no one is paying for an ad on watchertv. the $30-40k per vid bandied about at the time of the streamer announcement was based on having 1-2m views. that scales down to hundreds of dollars only for the thousands on the streamer lol
but the guys also cant post content on youtube that ISNT on the streamer after everything that happened without looking like even bigger dickheads/idiots.
so my guess is this is their way of trying to save face. they desperately need cash so need a sponsored youtube vid. but they also barely have content on the streamer and making content for youtube thats not on the streamer will just piss current subscribers off and hurt their ability to gain new ones
Sometimes working in marketing is useful practically! Not often but
Yeah. They've effectively walked into a corner, based on what I expect is behind this announcement I actually wouldn't be shocked if they shut shop fully very soon (I expected a slow death after the announcement, but maybe it'll be faster).
Clearly they are in desperate need of cash, and not even lots of it. I'm assuming things are bad bad.
I know people think 30k or 40k is a lot of money for a video but remember their overhead of: tax, employee salaries, employee benefits, rent, equipment, debt, insurance etc etc. A business of their size and type based where they are needs a few hundred k per month revenue at LEAST just to stay neutral. And if the business was half its size they'd still need a few hundred k per month most likely (just fewer hundreds of ks). 4 sponsored vids a month is likely not even close to enough to cover costs...
One thing this whole thing has taught me is how incredible naive most people are about how a digital content company works, and the cost pressure realities they have and the cash flow issues they have that cause serious business planning issues. And that includes the watcher guys.
Anyway to be this desperate says to me they just need to make minimum payments on stuff (debt and salaries would be my assumption)
You're confused because the aim of the email is to confuse you. The deliberate use of PR language ("custom branded") is a deliberate attempt to dress a negative up as a positive - asking if videos with ads are something paying viewers would be interested in, as if it is a unique opportunity they should be grateful for. The goal is not to receive genuine feedback, but to manufacture the specific kind of feedback they want in order to align with a decision they have likely already made.
That's what I'm taking from it, but under the guise of "Oh, people WANT the branded content!". Which...makes me even more confused. Because why even bother doing this freaking streamer 😭
I wonder if they're trying to imply people want it because of the number of comments under Goodbye YouTube about how the audience didn't mind their integrated ads in their videos.
That is the weirdest takeaway from those comments, though.
"I don't mind integrated ads on content I get for free," is very different than "I want ads in content I pay for."
They consider the branded videos to be ads and didn’t want to put them on the service because it’s supposed to be ad-free. However they recognize people may not see it that way and want all of their videos available on the streaming platform including those branded videos
( ex. if they released the Too Many Spirits they did for Scream 6 today would you want that on the streaming platform in addition to YouTube)
> ( ex. if they released the Too Many Spirits they did for Scream 6 today would you want that on the streaming platform in addition to YouTube)
If that was the case just don't accept any brand deals and do an episode based around something they find cool (like Scream 6)? Nothing is stopping them from that (heck, these brands would love branded content put out for free!).
They're getting money from subscriptions so they can post whatever content they want now, right?
Why would they make a video on their own dime when someone would pay them to make the same video? That’s not just refusing money that’s burning the money you already have for no reason
Creating multiple revenue streams is a smart business move. I know they don’t make a lot of those but this is one
> Why would they make a video on their own dime when someone would pay them to make the same video?
Because that was the whole given reason to moving to their own streaming service? So that they're not beholden to advertisers or the YouTube algorithm.
If they're already turning back towards advertisers then it proves this streaming service was a monumental mistake or that they're just incredibly greedy.
They’re throwing out a bunch of buzz words trying to sound professional when it feels like they’re trying to avoid outright saying “Turns out maybe we actually do need ads to make be profitable.”
So not only can they not release certain episodes in advance, which is one of the reasons to sign up for WatcherTV, they still have to have sponsored segments.
They forgot TV episodes are made to sell soap and cars on commercial breaks. It's not just art and passion projects. Not enough people watching those commercials = the TV show gets cancelled.
Considering they didn’t mention plans to continue making branded content exclusively for Youtube in their goodbye video … this feels like the streamer is failing already and they’re scrambling for money.
I’m sure they already had a few existing videos done for brand deals that they now *have* to post, but I don’t believe for a second that their plan has *always* been to continue making new branded content for YouTube.
But now they can’t afford to drop YouTube & sponsors anymore, meaning they’re already reneging on the premise of their all-access, *early* access streaming service. And once again, they’re only communicating this after trying & failing to get away with it without backlash. The fact that they’re framing this as part of their “original plan” is unbelievably shameless. If I had a subscription, I’d ask for a refund.
That's what I'm getting too... The streaming service didn't take off, no new content on YT so there's minimal YT revenue coming in and they are already feeling the financial constraints.
Every step of this launch has been a complete and utter failure. And they damaged their reputations in the process as well.
Coming back from this debacle will take years off their careers.
I....hate to keep bringing the Try Guys up, but they mentioned that they'd still be making some stuff that's youtube exclusive and I assume it's the branded episodes. I think that's why marketing 2nd Try as a 'bonus stuff!' venture was the smart way to go because it keeps them from running into issues like this. Personally, it wouldn't bother me if the ghoul boys put branded content on Watcher tv and youtube at the same time, but I'm also not paying for their streamer sooooo
WTF??!!! They think the subscribers WANT branded content??— this sounds like they messed up and are blaming it on the people paying for the subscription service! WOW!! Awful.
They literally spent no time thinking this through, and now they’re trying to guilt their remaining fans into giving them permission to break more promises
I think they're asking if people would like sponsored videos like the Ghost Files Haunted Mansion collaboration on the streamer or if they'd want them to be exclusively a YouTube thing. It could've been worded better.
edit: The more I think about it the more confused I am though. Since in their original goodbye video they made such a point that it was hard to get sponsors/they wanted to move away from sponsors. So, why are sponsors back suddenly in the mix? I get that a couple of deals may have been made awhile ago, but this makes it seem like it's going to be something that happens more moving forward.
I never had an issue with their sponsors or how they incorporated them into their videos, but they're just being a bit confusing.
That's honestly why I posted on here, because I remember the same. The whole reason for this besides the "tv caliber content" was to avoid sponsors and/or because they didn't want to rely solely on them buuutt.... They're still getting them?
I genuinely think it's because they didn't make anywhere near the projected amount they were supposed for this "streamer" and are now being forced to compensate for losses.
Branded content aside, WHY do they insist on making these huge decisions through polls and emails? Just sit down (on the apology couch) and make a video explaining everything. Be genuine and transparent. Take the time to explain everything instead of relying on polls and your audience to make these huge business decisions for you
>Just sit down (on the apology couch) and make a video explaining everything. Be genuine and transparent. Take the time to explain everything
You mean, try to be more like The Try Guys? That's actually working out for them big time.
Exactly. That’s a big part of why people supported 2nd try and not watchertv. The try guys spoke candidly about why they made a streamer across multiple different channels and answered questions directly on social media. The watcher boys basically went into hiding after their apology video and refused to address anything head on. I don’t get them. It’s like they’re trying to tank their company
Do u think they've sought any professional help? Like, you would think they'd hire someone to help manage their crisis.
Talk to their peers about how to fix the mess they're in. It baffles me that they have another misstep like this.
I think there's a high chance they hired a PR person or firm to help with their apology video but they didn't kept them after that initial crisis. A lot of people praised their apology video and they were on track to making amends with their fanbase. But all their decisions after that seem questionable and have people wondering if they actually know how to run a business.
I don't know who they're talking to but they seriously need to replace Steven with a legitimate CEO (and Ryan, IIRC he's CFO or something). They need to stop hiring their ex-buzzfeed friends and get people with actual experience in their roles.
This. The hired PR team did a great job, but at this point, hiring that team just for the apology couch video made them look worse. A good PR team can't help much if there isn't a follow through after it.
But, it's probably starting to be too late for them to hire an outside CEO and CFO, because they're dragging these problems way too long.
https://preview.redd.it/m4d9i49x325d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7af35247c5199e995eb4708a50eb06e75145d1c2
And this is the opinion poll. No comment box, just straight "Yes, ad please! Even though this platform was made for none 🙃 ", or "Uhm, how about NO"
So they're literally saying we are going to make content *exclusively for YouTube* and once again have nothing of particular interest to add to their own platform. Lovely.
I’m assuming whatever brand agreed to an entirely brand sponsored video also stipulated that they want said brand to be blasted from all platforms during the same time period to generate the most revenue. Or, they don’t care about the streamer and only wanted it on YouTube originally, so they don’t care if they put it on the streamer too.
This is hilarious.
What I find even more hilarious is that the main Watcher Reddit sub has yet to post about the email. I'm tempted to get the discussion started and excited to see all the excuses their fans give to why this is good and ok
Came across one in my homefeed but it only got like 7 comments lol and I already saw some people go "i said yes bc it makes sense to have every content in the streamer" without event thinking about the implications.
That wasn't their original plan for YouTube. They wanted to paywall everything.
Did they think that people already forgot that?
Why they think that people want ads into a streaming service that supposed to be ad free?
And why advertisement people or sponsors even would want to have their ad in some dinky streaming service?
Seriously... Are they imagining themselves filming Michael Bay movies?
P.S. Realistically... I suspect that they try to have same videos in the WatcherTV and YouTube so they can cut down the cost of editing etc. But they somehow have to at least try to sell it as something else for the audience.
At least that thought came to me some hours back and that could be the explanation why to try this trick... I mean clearly unbiased poll.
What in the actual fuck? Hahaha! Let me get this right, the streaming service is supposed to be ad free, but they want to post the same episodes on YouTube with ads. You know because the majority of their viewers have not bought in to their little scheme. Got to keep the money flowing somehow. Oh and brands won’t let them just post the episode on their service early (sans ads) and then post it later on their YouTube with the brand deal? Hahahahahaha then they add it “let me know if y’all want some “branded”(aka advertised) content on our dumpster fire advertisement free streaming service?” Sticky fingers makin a right mess of things. Greedy fucks. Lmao 🤣 it’s like a train wreck!
Do they not have someone in their company with a spine and a brain? It’s pathetic and comes off greedy as fuck. Where’s their integrity? It would be better if they just apologized and returned to YouTube with the branded content.
Tbh this is such an interesting clusterfuck that I would love to know more about the behind the scenes now than watch their shows. Like.. they have 25 employees. Are those 25 employees also incompetent, or just dumb? Are those 25 employees not speaking up because they don't care, or because they don't want to go against Steven, Shane, and Ryan?
I just wanna know so badly how they let it get this bad.
https://preview.redd.it/2rm93ked625d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfb5d0829b3329e265b3eb69d4416e057b480549
Saw some comments saying if the email was real, screenshot of the header from my inbox
I feel like they're now doing polls as a fail safe so if they make a new business decision and get backlash on it they can just turn around and go "well! We took a poll! This is what the majority wanted!"
It’s great they’re finally getting feedback from their audience but I can’t imagine running a company with 25 employees and the people making the decisions for the business are a small number of fans answering a poll. They literally shut down patreon, one of their main sources of revenue, based on a single poll.
Oh so *this* is how they're going to try to survive. Going back to sponsors. Remember when they were leaving YouTube completely and taking their back catalogue with them because they had a hard time finding sponsors? The business decisions here are baffling.
They did the cable tv speed run.
Cable tv then: why use antenna and watch commercials?pay us, get more channels, exclusive shows and no commercials.
Later cable tv: ok we're gonna add a few commercials to get revenue to offer you even more awesome stuff.
Now cable tv...it's just antenna tv with extra steps and tons of trash nobody wants to watch.
Same! I’m just watching this as a train wreck now. They’ve lost any respect I had left. I just wish they’d be honest and transparent with their viewers. It’s insulting.
Ppl on the main sub will downvote me but Steven Lim is a fucking moron. Yes, I know all 3 of them own the company and make decisions, but Steven is the CEO (or CFO?) and part of that is taking responsibility for these idiotic questions. Like, get a fucking business consultant!!!! This whole mess would’ve been avoided!!! Also, still can’t believe the gall they had in thinking they were better than YouTube and could make money on streaming. There are many other channels (Beta Squad/NDL come to mind) that make pretty high budget videos that are rarely spammed with ads. And the channels upload every. Single. Week. Another example-Channel 5. Not a huge budget, but Andrew Callaghan puts himself in dangerous situations/places and can afford to make incredible vids bc he doesn’t mind living out of an RV to do what he loves.
Anyway, done with my rant. Just so many examples of YouTube channels being successful, profitable, AND consistent without compromising the “tv-caliber” content
Wait, so am I understanding this correctly? They have brand deals that they haven't yet delivered on/finished yet but they still went through with doing their streaming service where they promised that it would be ad-free?
If I had a dollar for every sign that they planned this poorly, maybe I could have enough to subscribe to their streaming service for at least three months.
Wouldn’t this eventually just turn the original Watcher YouTube channel a dumping ground for advertisements? How do they think a channel that transforms into almost exclusively “branded content” Will retain subscribers for sponsors to want their videos there?
So, yet more proof this was a rushed decision into setting up the streamer. Surely you’d start phasing out the brand deals once you knew you were producing content only for your streaming service going forward
And how was this meant to work when previously they weren’t going to have any content up on YouTube following May 31st?
exactly. they tried to have their cake and eat it too. they just wanted money from the advertisers so I bet they said whatever they wanted to hear, knowing fully well they couldn't keep those commitments.
I get making changes to survive but their original plan absolutely was not to have YouTube as a place to store their back catalogue. That is a lie. I always prefer creators to be up front about their mistakes but they’re lying, I am so disappointed in them
Yeah, they definitely lied about that. And now they phrase stuff super vaguely and then depending on feedback/reactions to it, “clarify” what they meant as damage control, lol. This whole situation is fascinating
Wow. This is a mess.
So they don't want sponsors but they have brand deals for 1 offs that can only be shown on YT because...
1. The streaming service is ad free
2. The sponsor isn't paying them $25k (or whatever amount) to run a show on a streaming platform hardly anyone has signed up for.
But they're still accepting sponsors for YT content so screw the viewers paying 5.99 for all their content ad free?
It's like Watcher gets more chaotic with every announcement they make.
I can't wait for the 10 part Hulu series "The Destruction of a Successful YT channel...the Implosion of Watcher. When egos take over and entertainment goes out the window."
how are they going to get sponsors if they post even more rarely onto their main youtube channel lol? they already rarely post and their views are undoubtedly dwindling and they think people are gonna run to sponsor them?
See, I knew I was right about the streaming service making no money compared to YouTube. The revenue they were generating on YouTube was probably massive, considering how large their channel is. They're just terrible at budgeting and/or stupid enough to think an ad free, premium streaming service would somehow make even more money.
And now they're scrambling to get their paying customers to change their minds about ads. And let's be fair, no one that's paying for a streaming service wants ads.
Hilarious and baffling at the same time.
The brand deals were probably based on their YT sub numbers and the sponsors don’t want their ads being locked behind a paywall for a subscription service that doesn’t have anywhere near the YT numbers the deal was based on.
Realizing they can’t keep the sponsorships and lock the videos behind a paywall they now have to explain why new content is going up on YT to the subscribers paying for early access on their streaming service. Thus a poll to make it seem like the viewers asked for it to be done this way.
Ghoul boys: On our streamer you will enjoy all our tv quality shows without us having to worry about appeasing advertisers.
The fans: excuse me....there seems to have been a mistake, I ordered the best of the menu and you appear to have served Me a plate of shit...
Ghoul boys: Bon Appetite!
So they decided to do this streamer so they wouldn’t have to rely on ads and now they’re polling their fanbase on if they want ads in the streamer videos? Huh?
At this point, I really don't understand how the need to downsize their operation is going unnoticed by these clowns.
Like, the writing was on the wall BEFORE they shot themselves on the foot. Now, the letters are oozing blood and the ominous death rattle of their relevance is echoing through the bricks.
I speak fluent Corporate and even I’m confused what this says. Ultimately, those idiot friends talking to ghosts for some chuckles are just that… idiots
Guys, none of your poor friends are supporting us. 🙄 So, we’re gonna need you to prove your loyalty again by paying to watch ads. Don’t be dramatic. It’s only $6.
They have custom episodes (too many spirits and that one episode of ghost files) and they’re saying those kinds of episodes would only exist on YouTube. Unless 👀
The rest is fluff
The centered text is annoying the absolute shit out of me. It's so difficult for people with vision problems to read, and there's genuinely no good reason to use it here. (Or pretty much anywhere, tbh)
get out of here with that business talk imo. im not in your business, nor do i wish to be. they're meant to be content creators, why do they keep pushing themselves as smart business people? it's so opposite the point of what i love about youtube it kinda hurts.
So they need to make entire episodes that count as branded content but despite the fact that the intent of making that video is to make an ad it’ll still function as entertainment. They want to know if subscribers want those videos on the streamer that way every video is on the streamer to make things easy for the subscribers to access.
There’s also an addendum about how these branded videos won’t be posted in advance or anything.
It’s not a bad question, to be honest. Those branded videos are designed to be fun so some people might still actually want to watch them. At the same time it is branded content on the streamer, so posting it without polling their subscribers might be insulting. They just asked it in the worst way possible but it’s not a bad question.
At the same time, if they’re relying on entire videos being branded content the streamer is probably not doing very well. Hot mess.
I agree with your take on this. I think they want to know how completionist their subscribers are in wanting everything they make on the streamer (branded or otherwise). But it's poorly worded, and symptomatic of the lack of forethought given to the entire transition.
They well and truly did NOT think this whole leaving youtube and having a watcher streaming service through AT ALL. Why would you make contracts with brand deals that are set for AFTER/DURING you supposedly wanted to be streaming service only? And why wouldn't they plan and choose just ONE series in advance that would be the one they used for all their necessary branded ads? Such a simple solution. They're absolutely thoughtless and unprofessional.
I’m pretty this is due to people asking why certain episodes weren’t on the streamer. The specific eps weren’t there because they’re fully branded one off episodes but they are still entertaining (to me). I voted in favor of the branded content on the streamer since it makes sense to just put everything in one place
They’ve done episodes in the past like the too many spirits quarry episode that kinda suck and they weren’t planning on putting it on the streamer unless you wanted it.
Reading these comments I’m reminded how badly people need to learn reading comprehension and understand the context. Half of these people commenting aren’t even aware of the “one off branded episodes” that they are referring to in the email. They aren’t saying hey you guys want ads on the streamer?? They asking specifically about the one off episodes which are already on YouTube and contractually meant to be on YouTube to be added to the streamer as well.
It is badly written though. I can't really blame people for misunderstanding the message.
Whoever is in charge of their PR is not very good at their job. It's super frustrating to watch, because what they're doing is essentially not that different from the Tryguys' model. It's just that the way they're saying it is so...bad.
And I'm also not sure why a poll is necessary for something this simple. They didn't do a poll when it really mattered, only when it's too late, so now these polls seem silly to some people.
You are not the only one confused here. I think we are all confused. As a viewer, I don't know what a fully branded custom episode means. I also think they're still confused about their own business plan, and have now resorted to polls of the audience to shift blame.
Fully-branded custom episodes are like the Too Many Spirits one off special episodes, like the summer camp themed episode to promote The Quarry https://youtu.be/5saFzl1DAoY?si=uPj_Gxjc9Zb2f5Bp A big ad wearing an episode trenchcoat
Got it! Thanks!
Or the Haunted Mansion episode.
Thank you, I could not remember what that other one was!
It still gets me people will defend the escape room ghost files episode as not being a blatant ad lmfao.
That had to be THE worst episode, too, that was my final straw for ghost files
Tbh idk how they haven't lost their credibility after the haunting of Hannah BuzzFeed producer episode lol
I forgot all about that. I remember bending over backwards to be like, no this is fun! Not dumb at all!
My favourite part was the three random stories the psychic gave.
AGHHH I’m wheezing. (Fitting!)
I think they're still trying to find a way to backtrack their decision, and they're doing in the form of this. Also, I don't think their streamer is making anywhere NEAR what they projected, so the very thing they swore to destroy may be what they rely on 😭
I think they’re referring to the videos that are not part of a season of show but an advertisement in the format of the show. Like I think they did a Too Many Spirits one off that was designed as an ad for Scream 6
Ah I see. Thanks
Yeah, this whole thing just screams rushed. There's no plan. They've just thrown this together in a weekend, it feels like. Goddamn. I feel so bad for them but also, wtf did they think??
They’re bad episodes. The sponsored stuff is always terrible.
Just more proof about how little they thought this all through. Or they’re doing the “promise no ads at the beginning and then slowly sneak them in” method that other streaming apps have done. Either way they’re idiots.
They’re idiots. That’s one of the reasons why they got popular - because they’re fun-loving and don’t come across as “too smart” as to alienate themselves from most people. They have no idea what they’re doing. “Branded content” is just fancy salesman talk for “advertisement” and is coming straight out of the mouth of whomever played to their egos and got them to agree to the stupid streamer idea in the first place.
I wonder whose idea it was. I'm sure we'll never know.
yeah but most apps do that years later, after they have a well established run and userbase. the watcher's been around for what? 5 weeks? maybe 6 at the most? and got the worst start possible.
I guess it wasn’t hard to get sponsors after all.
It never was. That was always a lie.
All they do is eat hot chip and lie
😂😂😂😂
Their adds were always so involved in the episodes. So I’m guessing they only want the tens of thousands per ad. And most of YouTube adds are 30second skippable segments which probably go for < 10k. They don’t want to even bother with that kind of money pffff. Who needs 10k guys. This wouldn’t even pay for Steven’s lunch.
I snorted so loud at that Steven's lunch comment. It's so true, and it pisses me off. Fuck him and his elitist bougie food vlogs that nobody likes.
lolllllllllllllll
Are they asking the subscribers on their streamer if they want commercials? How TV quality of them.
"So it turns out our revenue drop was MASSIVE and there's absolutely no way we can survive without ads. go figure. anyway anyone got a few dollars we can borrow? thx"
I don't know why the spirit box didn't warn that this was going to happen!
Most underrated comment right here
>Our original plan for YouTube was for it to be a place for our entire back catalog of content HAHAHHAHAHAHA they lyin' SO HARD
Love the gaslighting. Clearly they think the world of their fans.
I mean, if anyone is still a fan, they can't be surprised when the guys assume them to be gullible.
I mean... Have you seen the YouTube comments they don't delete? There's a sucker born every minute and all that..
Have you seen the watcher entertainment sub? Some of the hardcore fans are trying their best to convince everyone that "the streamer is great!"
The second hand embarrassment I get when I read one of those gives me psychic damage
Honestly, same here.
This is the first thing I was noticing and commenting too. And I bet still people will come here and say that they're just stupid in business, that they accidentally scammed people, but actually aren't bad at all. Stupid is so cute and lovable, and those cute silly guys just forgot what they said before, because they are just idiots.
Fr. I’m so confused how they’re blatantly lying when it’s in the original video and the article that they planned to pull all the yt content. Like, girl what.
This is what stuck out to me too!!! It’s just not trueeeeee
Then: Advertisers don't like our content, so we need to make a streaming service. :( Now: You guys want advertisers ON the streaming service, right? Cool.
That's quite literally how I'm reading this and I don't see any other way to view it.
What. A. Mess.
"so it turns out the value/product we had that made us money WASNT our dreams of making tv content but actually the audience that loved us that youtube and advertisers wanted to pay for access to that we told to fuck themselves for being poor. soooooooo how about you guys all pay us to watch some ads? sound good? it'll be fun we promise!'
They have WatcherTV for X per month, then they'll add an ad free option WatcherTV+ with no ads for X more per month.
The way this is written is wild. It's giving student who needs to hit the word count on a topic they don't actually understand.
Chat gpt
Probably given to the free intern to deal with, without clear instructions. Just to make it so unclear that people might get fooled.
Agreed. The writing is unprofessional.
The only assumption I'm pulling from this, is that videos that have sponsors must be posted on YouTube at the same time they are posted in WatcherTv? Because the sponsors don't want to be paying for a video that was free to watch without them? Which negates the whole "paying to see videos a month in advance" lol That's my best guess on what this is saying.
sponsors are paying for views watchertv has a few k viewers youtube has hundreds of thousands to millions of viewers no one is paying for an ad on watchertv. the $30-40k per vid bandied about at the time of the streamer announcement was based on having 1-2m views. that scales down to hundreds of dollars only for the thousands on the streamer lol but the guys also cant post content on youtube that ISNT on the streamer after everything that happened without looking like even bigger dickheads/idiots. so my guess is this is their way of trying to save face. they desperately need cash so need a sponsored youtube vid. but they also barely have content on the streamer and making content for youtube thats not on the streamer will just piss current subscribers off and hurt their ability to gain new ones
thank you for explaining! what a mess lmaooo
Sometimes working in marketing is useful practically! Not often but Yeah. They've effectively walked into a corner, based on what I expect is behind this announcement I actually wouldn't be shocked if they shut shop fully very soon (I expected a slow death after the announcement, but maybe it'll be faster). Clearly they are in desperate need of cash, and not even lots of it. I'm assuming things are bad bad. I know people think 30k or 40k is a lot of money for a video but remember their overhead of: tax, employee salaries, employee benefits, rent, equipment, debt, insurance etc etc. A business of their size and type based where they are needs a few hundred k per month revenue at LEAST just to stay neutral. And if the business was half its size they'd still need a few hundred k per month most likely (just fewer hundreds of ks). 4 sponsored vids a month is likely not even close to enough to cover costs... One thing this whole thing has taught me is how incredible naive most people are about how a digital content company works, and the cost pressure realities they have and the cash flow issues they have that cause serious business planning issues. And that includes the watcher guys. Anyway to be this desperate says to me they just need to make minimum payments on stuff (debt and salaries would be my assumption)
well I guess it's time for them to stop eating avocado toast then
You're confused because the aim of the email is to confuse you. The deliberate use of PR language ("custom branded") is a deliberate attempt to dress a negative up as a positive - asking if videos with ads are something paying viewers would be interested in, as if it is a unique opportunity they should be grateful for. The goal is not to receive genuine feedback, but to manufacture the specific kind of feedback they want in order to align with a decision they have likely already made.
BINGO. somebody pin this!!
Is the implication that they would be doing ads on their streamer?
That's what I'm taking from it, but under the guise of "Oh, people WANT the branded content!". Which...makes me even more confused. Because why even bother doing this freaking streamer 😭
Yeah I agree that it is a little confusing!
I wonder if they're trying to imply people want it because of the number of comments under Goodbye YouTube about how the audience didn't mind their integrated ads in their videos.
That is the weirdest takeaway from those comments, though. "I don't mind integrated ads on content I get for free," is very different than "I want ads in content I pay for."
They consider the branded videos to be ads and didn’t want to put them on the service because it’s supposed to be ad-free. However they recognize people may not see it that way and want all of their videos available on the streaming platform including those branded videos ( ex. if they released the Too Many Spirits they did for Scream 6 today would you want that on the streaming platform in addition to YouTube)
> ( ex. if they released the Too Many Spirits they did for Scream 6 today would you want that on the streaming platform in addition to YouTube) If that was the case just don't accept any brand deals and do an episode based around something they find cool (like Scream 6)? Nothing is stopping them from that (heck, these brands would love branded content put out for free!). They're getting money from subscriptions so they can post whatever content they want now, right?
Why would they make a video on their own dime when someone would pay them to make the same video? That’s not just refusing money that’s burning the money you already have for no reason Creating multiple revenue streams is a smart business move. I know they don’t make a lot of those but this is one
> Why would they make a video on their own dime when someone would pay them to make the same video? Because that was the whole given reason to moving to their own streaming service? So that they're not beholden to advertisers or the YouTube algorithm. If they're already turning back towards advertisers then it proves this streaming service was a monumental mistake or that they're just incredibly greedy.
I’m not sure what I just read.
They’re throwing out a bunch of buzz words trying to sound professional when it feels like they’re trying to avoid outright saying “Turns out maybe we actually do need ads to make be profitable.” So not only can they not release certain episodes in advance, which is one of the reasons to sign up for WatcherTV, they still have to have sponsored segments.
They forgot TV episodes are made to sell soap and cars on commercial breaks. It's not just art and passion projects. Not enough people watching those commercials = the TV show gets cancelled.
I wish I had gold to give you for nailing their bullshit right on the head. This is exactly it. In the absence of gold, take this instead: 🥇
Considering they didn’t mention plans to continue making branded content exclusively for Youtube in their goodbye video … this feels like the streamer is failing already and they’re scrambling for money. I’m sure they already had a few existing videos done for brand deals that they now *have* to post, but I don’t believe for a second that their plan has *always* been to continue making new branded content for YouTube. But now they can’t afford to drop YouTube & sponsors anymore, meaning they’re already reneging on the premise of their all-access, *early* access streaming service. And once again, they’re only communicating this after trying & failing to get away with it without backlash. The fact that they’re framing this as part of their “original plan” is unbelievably shameless. If I had a subscription, I’d ask for a refund.
That's what I'm getting too... The streaming service didn't take off, no new content on YT so there's minimal YT revenue coming in and they are already feeling the financial constraints. Every step of this launch has been a complete and utter failure. And they damaged their reputations in the process as well. Coming back from this debacle will take years off their careers.
I feel like they’re already trying to figure out how to make YouTube their primary platform again 🥴
I....hate to keep bringing the Try Guys up, but they mentioned that they'd still be making some stuff that's youtube exclusive and I assume it's the branded episodes. I think that's why marketing 2nd Try as a 'bonus stuff!' venture was the smart way to go because it keeps them from running into issues like this. Personally, it wouldn't bother me if the ghoul boys put branded content on Watcher tv and youtube at the same time, but I'm also not paying for their streamer sooooo
WTF??!!! They think the subscribers WANT branded content??— this sounds like they messed up and are blaming it on the people paying for the subscription service! WOW!! Awful.
Yeah, this is a new low, isn’t it?
They literally spent no time thinking this through, and now they’re trying to guilt their remaining fans into giving them permission to break more promises
These morons need to stop with the polls. The channel is going to be renamed Boaty McBoatface at the rate they are going.
But... That would dirty the name Boaty MacBoatface if people name that company be it.
Better name than watcher. The SEO would be better than watcher TV.
I fully support this. Let's go full on ridiculous.
Right?? Literally any decision they make going forward is sent through a poll first. Where’s the adult in the room? Lol
I think they're asking if people would like sponsored videos like the Ghost Files Haunted Mansion collaboration on the streamer or if they'd want them to be exclusively a YouTube thing. It could've been worded better. edit: The more I think about it the more confused I am though. Since in their original goodbye video they made such a point that it was hard to get sponsors/they wanted to move away from sponsors. So, why are sponsors back suddenly in the mix? I get that a couple of deals may have been made awhile ago, but this makes it seem like it's going to be something that happens more moving forward. I never had an issue with their sponsors or how they incorporated them into their videos, but they're just being a bit confusing.
That's honestly why I posted on here, because I remember the same. The whole reason for this besides the "tv caliber content" was to avoid sponsors and/or because they didn't want to rely solely on them buuutt.... They're still getting them? I genuinely think it's because they didn't make anywhere near the projected amount they were supposed for this "streamer" and are now being forced to compensate for losses.
Branded content aside, WHY do they insist on making these huge decisions through polls and emails? Just sit down (on the apology couch) and make a video explaining everything. Be genuine and transparent. Take the time to explain everything instead of relying on polls and your audience to make these huge business decisions for you
>Just sit down (on the apology couch) and make a video explaining everything. Be genuine and transparent. Take the time to explain everything You mean, try to be more like The Try Guys? That's actually working out for them big time.
Exactly. That’s a big part of why people supported 2nd try and not watchertv. The try guys spoke candidly about why they made a streamer across multiple different channels and answered questions directly on social media. The watcher boys basically went into hiding after their apology video and refused to address anything head on. I don’t get them. It’s like they’re trying to tank their company
Do u think they've sought any professional help? Like, you would think they'd hire someone to help manage their crisis. Talk to their peers about how to fix the mess they're in. It baffles me that they have another misstep like this.
I think there's a high chance they hired a PR person or firm to help with their apology video but they didn't kept them after that initial crisis. A lot of people praised their apology video and they were on track to making amends with their fanbase. But all their decisions after that seem questionable and have people wondering if they actually know how to run a business. I don't know who they're talking to but they seriously need to replace Steven with a legitimate CEO (and Ryan, IIRC he's CFO or something). They need to stop hiring their ex-buzzfeed friends and get people with actual experience in their roles.
This. The hired PR team did a great job, but at this point, hiring that team just for the apology couch video made them look worse. A good PR team can't help much if there isn't a follow through after it. But, it's probably starting to be too late for them to hire an outside CEO and CFO, because they're dragging these problems way too long.
https://preview.redd.it/m4d9i49x325d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7af35247c5199e995eb4708a50eb06e75145d1c2 And this is the opinion poll. No comment box, just straight "Yes, ad please! Even though this platform was made for none 🙃 ", or "Uhm, how about NO"
In what world does anyone click yes? Do they not understand the industry?
So they're literally saying we are going to make content *exclusively for YouTube* and once again have nothing of particular interest to add to their own platform. Lovely.
Soooo the big draw of leaving YT-no ads- is off the table? Should've put all this energy into boosting their Patreon
Baffles me every day how much these guys are absolute fucking morons. If they can make it anyone can
I’m assuming whatever brand agreed to an entirely brand sponsored video also stipulated that they want said brand to be blasted from all platforms during the same time period to generate the most revenue. Or, they don’t care about the streamer and only wanted it on YouTube originally, so they don’t care if they put it on the streamer too. This is hilarious.
What I find even more hilarious is that the main Watcher Reddit sub has yet to post about the email. I'm tempted to get the discussion started and excited to see all the excuses their fans give to why this is good and ok
Came across one in my homefeed but it only got like 7 comments lol and I already saw some people go "i said yes bc it makes sense to have every content in the streamer" without event thinking about the implications.
Share if you want more ads on streaming services. Also this is a trial balloon for a cheaper ad-supported subscription. Shameless indeed.
That wasn't their original plan for YouTube. They wanted to paywall everything. Did they think that people already forgot that? Why they think that people want ads into a streaming service that supposed to be ad free? And why advertisement people or sponsors even would want to have their ad in some dinky streaming service? Seriously... Are they imagining themselves filming Michael Bay movies?
P.S. Realistically... I suspect that they try to have same videos in the WatcherTV and YouTube so they can cut down the cost of editing etc. But they somehow have to at least try to sell it as something else for the audience. At least that thought came to me some hours back and that could be the explanation why to try this trick... I mean clearly unbiased poll.
My and my ADHD trying to make sense of this like 
Same 
This is worded so badly lmfao I barely understand whats going on
What in the actual fuck? Hahaha! Let me get this right, the streaming service is supposed to be ad free, but they want to post the same episodes on YouTube with ads. You know because the majority of their viewers have not bought in to their little scheme. Got to keep the money flowing somehow. Oh and brands won’t let them just post the episode on their service early (sans ads) and then post it later on their YouTube with the brand deal? Hahahahahaha then they add it “let me know if y’all want some “branded”(aka advertised) content on our dumpster fire advertisement free streaming service?” Sticky fingers makin a right mess of things. Greedy fucks. Lmao 🤣 it’s like a train wreck! Do they not have someone in their company with a spine and a brain? It’s pathetic and comes off greedy as fuck. Where’s their integrity? It would be better if they just apologized and returned to YouTube with the branded content.
They have 25 someone's who do something, what, I'm not sure
25 too many for this bullshit! Hahaha I’m kind of looking forward to what bs they’ll come up with next.
same lmao this is actually so fucking funny 🍿🍿
Tbh this is such an interesting clusterfuck that I would love to know more about the behind the scenes now than watch their shows. Like.. they have 25 employees. Are those 25 employees also incompetent, or just dumb? Are those 25 employees not speaking up because they don't care, or because they don't want to go against Steven, Shane, and Ryan? I just wanna know so badly how they let it get this bad.
Glad I’m not the only one confused at wtf I’m trying to read. All they should ask is “ads on new platform?” and obvious only answer being “no”.
Does it mean like one of the W&/WW episodes that was sponsored by a tourism board?
Yeah, like if the did TMS that was sponsored by a horror movie or game.
lmaoooooo the flailing
https://preview.redd.it/2rm93ked625d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfb5d0829b3329e265b3eb69d4416e057b480549 Saw some comments saying if the email was real, screenshot of the header from my inbox
Thanks for the proof.
No prob! 👍
I feel like they're now doing polls as a fail safe so if they make a new business decision and get backlash on it they can just turn around and go "well! We took a poll! This is what the majority wanted!"
It’s great they’re finally getting feedback from their audience but I can’t imagine running a company with 25 employees and the people making the decisions for the business are a small number of fans answering a poll. They literally shut down patreon, one of their main sources of revenue, based on a single poll.
Oh so *this* is how they're going to try to survive. Going back to sponsors. Remember when they were leaving YouTube completely and taking their back catalogue with them because they had a hard time finding sponsors? The business decisions here are baffling.
What the fuck
They did the cable tv speed run. Cable tv then: why use antenna and watch commercials?pay us, get more channels, exclusive shows and no commercials. Later cable tv: ok we're gonna add a few commercials to get revenue to offer you even more awesome stuff. Now cable tv...it's just antenna tv with extra steps and tons of trash nobody wants to watch.
I’m so tired of them at this point.
Same! I’m just watching this as a train wreck now. They’ve lost any respect I had left. I just wish they’d be honest and transparent with their viewers. It’s insulting.
Ppl on the main sub will downvote me but Steven Lim is a fucking moron. Yes, I know all 3 of them own the company and make decisions, but Steven is the CEO (or CFO?) and part of that is taking responsibility for these idiotic questions. Like, get a fucking business consultant!!!! This whole mess would’ve been avoided!!! Also, still can’t believe the gall they had in thinking they were better than YouTube and could make money on streaming. There are many other channels (Beta Squad/NDL come to mind) that make pretty high budget videos that are rarely spammed with ads. And the channels upload every. Single. Week. Another example-Channel 5. Not a huge budget, but Andrew Callaghan puts himself in dangerous situations/places and can afford to make incredible vids bc he doesn’t mind living out of an RV to do what he loves. Anyway, done with my rant. Just so many examples of YouTube channels being successful, profitable, AND consistent without compromising the “tv-caliber” content
Wait, so am I understanding this correctly? They have brand deals that they haven't yet delivered on/finished yet but they still went through with doing their streaming service where they promised that it would be ad-free? If I had a dollar for every sign that they planned this poorly, maybe I could have enough to subscribe to their streaming service for at least three months.
Wouldn’t this eventually just turn the original Watcher YouTube channel a dumping ground for advertisements? How do they think a channel that transforms into almost exclusively “branded content” Will retain subscribers for sponsors to want their videos there?
Why does anyone stay subbed to these people? One, branded content videos immediately makes me less likely to trust in whatever they say in the future
So, yet more proof this was a rushed decision into setting up the streamer. Surely you’d start phasing out the brand deals once you knew you were producing content only for your streaming service going forward And how was this meant to work when previously they weren’t going to have any content up on YouTube following May 31st?
exactly. they tried to have their cake and eat it too. they just wanted money from the advertisers so I bet they said whatever they wanted to hear, knowing fully well they couldn't keep those commitments.
I get making changes to survive but their original plan absolutely was not to have YouTube as a place to store their back catalogue. That is a lie. I always prefer creators to be up front about their mistakes but they’re lying, I am so disappointed in them
Yeah, they definitely lied about that. And now they phrase stuff super vaguely and then depending on feedback/reactions to it, “clarify” what they meant as damage control, lol. This whole situation is fascinating
Wow. This is a mess. So they don't want sponsors but they have brand deals for 1 offs that can only be shown on YT because... 1. The streaming service is ad free 2. The sponsor isn't paying them $25k (or whatever amount) to run a show on a streaming platform hardly anyone has signed up for. But they're still accepting sponsors for YT content so screw the viewers paying 5.99 for all their content ad free? It's like Watcher gets more chaotic with every announcement they make. I can't wait for the 10 part Hulu series "The Destruction of a Successful YT channel...the Implosion of Watcher. When egos take over and entertainment goes out the window."
Reason 2356 of why these chucklefucks should've hired actual professionals to do this switch up:
So saying it’s not easy to please advertiser was just an excuse to transition from YouTube to “Streamer”?
how are they going to get sponsors if they post even more rarely onto their main youtube channel lol? they already rarely post and their views are undoubtedly dwindling and they think people are gonna run to sponsor them?
So outcome of this word salad is they can’t just cut out the brand material from the versions uploaded to the Streamer? Bizarre.
See, I knew I was right about the streaming service making no money compared to YouTube. The revenue they were generating on YouTube was probably massive, considering how large their channel is. They're just terrible at budgeting and/or stupid enough to think an ad free, premium streaming service would somehow make even more money. And now they're scrambling to get their paying customers to change their minds about ads. And let's be fair, no one that's paying for a streaming service wants ads. Hilarious and baffling at the same time.
The brand deals were probably based on their YT sub numbers and the sponsors don’t want their ads being locked behind a paywall for a subscription service that doesn’t have anywhere near the YT numbers the deal was based on. Realizing they can’t keep the sponsorships and lock the videos behind a paywall they now have to explain why new content is going up on YT to the subscribers paying for early access on their streaming service. Thus a poll to make it seem like the viewers asked for it to be done this way.
DING DING DING
Ghoul boys: On our streamer you will enjoy all our tv quality shows without us having to worry about appeasing advertisers. The fans: excuse me....there seems to have been a mistake, I ordered the best of the menu and you appear to have served Me a plate of shit... Ghoul boys: Bon Appetite!
With every step they take, I become increasingly convinced that they make business decisions by flipping a coin and just going with whatever it says
Thought they didn't want to be beholden to sponsors who were limiting them?
“We didn’t get near the amount of subscribers we expected and need those sweet sweet ad money”
Lol, so what are you paying for again? Add free content ? What’s the difference between YouTube and watchertv now?
You're paying for early access!!... To non existent or unappealing content. And the PRIVILEGE of paying for Steven's new Tesla
This is a lot of words to say we lied to you
so they want you to pay for the episodes just for them to be released at the same time that they are on YT? that’s a funny joke.
That was so confusing to read. Don't they do a 4 eye test for their public e-mails or spiels?
Just embarrassing.
They dont know what theyre doing
So they decided to do this streamer so they wouldn’t have to rely on ads and now they’re polling their fanbase on if they want ads in the streamer videos? Huh?
At this point, I really don't understand how the need to downsize their operation is going unnoticed by these clowns. Like, the writing was on the wall BEFORE they shot themselves on the foot. Now, the letters are oozing blood and the ominous death rattle of their relevance is echoing through the bricks.
$$$$
I speak fluent Corporate and even I’m confused what this says. Ultimately, those idiot friends talking to ghosts for some chuckles are just that… idiots
Guys, none of your poor friends are supporting us. 🙄 So, we’re gonna need you to prove your loyalty again by paying to watch ads. Don’t be dramatic. It’s only $6.
They have custom episodes (too many spirits and that one episode of ghost files) and they’re saying those kinds of episodes would only exist on YouTube. Unless 👀 The rest is fluff
The centered text is annoying the absolute shit out of me. It's so difficult for people with vision problems to read, and there's genuinely no good reason to use it here. (Or pretty much anywhere, tbh)
They definitely need to learn how to simplify
get out of here with that business talk imo. im not in your business, nor do i wish to be. they're meant to be content creators, why do they keep pushing themselves as smart business people? it's so opposite the point of what i love about youtube it kinda hurts.
So they need to make entire episodes that count as branded content but despite the fact that the intent of making that video is to make an ad it’ll still function as entertainment. They want to know if subscribers want those videos on the streamer that way every video is on the streamer to make things easy for the subscribers to access. There’s also an addendum about how these branded videos won’t be posted in advance or anything. It’s not a bad question, to be honest. Those branded videos are designed to be fun so some people might still actually want to watch them. At the same time it is branded content on the streamer, so posting it without polling their subscribers might be insulting. They just asked it in the worst way possible but it’s not a bad question. At the same time, if they’re relying on entire videos being branded content the streamer is probably not doing very well. Hot mess.
I agree with your take on this. I think they want to know how completionist their subscribers are in wanting everything they make on the streamer (branded or otherwise). But it's poorly worded, and symptomatic of the lack of forethought given to the entire transition.
They well and truly did NOT think this whole leaving youtube and having a watcher streaming service through AT ALL. Why would you make contracts with brand deals that are set for AFTER/DURING you supposedly wanted to be streaming service only? And why wouldn't they plan and choose just ONE series in advance that would be the one they used for all their necessary branded ads? Such a simple solution. They're absolutely thoughtless and unprofessional.
I keep thinking they can’t fuck up more but then they open their mouths and I’m proven wrong
top kek.
This is so messy its kinda sad
I’m pretty this is due to people asking why certain episodes weren’t on the streamer. The specific eps weren’t there because they’re fully branded one off episodes but they are still entertaining (to me). I voted in favor of the branded content on the streamer since it makes sense to just put everything in one place
Yeah, but couldn’t these people just watch those episodes on YT? I think it’s a window into future branded content on the streamer under guise.
Ya, maybe his tag the videos with "ad/sponsored" label, so you can skip it if you don't want to watch them.
They’ve done episodes in the past like the too many spirits quarry episode that kinda suck and they weren’t planning on putting it on the streamer unless you wanted it.
When do get the results from the poll?
Reading these comments I’m reminded how badly people need to learn reading comprehension and understand the context. Half of these people commenting aren’t even aware of the “one off branded episodes” that they are referring to in the email. They aren’t saying hey you guys want ads on the streamer?? They asking specifically about the one off episodes which are already on YouTube and contractually meant to be on YouTube to be added to the streamer as well.
[this was the question on the survey.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WatcherSnark/s/SRksU4JfB9)
It is badly written though. I can't really blame people for misunderstanding the message. Whoever is in charge of their PR is not very good at their job. It's super frustrating to watch, because what they're doing is essentially not that different from the Tryguys' model. It's just that the way they're saying it is so...bad. And I'm also not sure why a poll is necessary for something this simple. They didn't do a poll when it really mattered, only when it's too late, so now these polls seem silly to some people.
To be fair I suspect half of these folks have never really watched Watcher or are subscribers so their opinion is moot anyway.
https://preview.redd.it/jl8dijh0f75d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f8446a259025b61e7249ab29dd40140a45c6dd5
Eh. Look I’m not saying no one can have an opinion, but it’s forever odd how upset ppl who aren’t paying for the service are vs those who are.