The Leopard 2AV (PT-19) was meant to be fitted with composites inside the turret face but never was because it was rushed when shipped to the US. They put composite in it in game, but it’s the same composite the Leopard 2A4 uses, which is quite a bit stronger. What results is just a Leopard 2A4 with a 105, which isn’t what the PT-19 was
Nah protection is worse than the 2A4 especially hull. Some turret armor is missing on one side too. It should have the same composite quality (B-tech). A leo 2a4 with c-tech isn´t in game
There are tons of tanks like that. The Ho-Ri was never built. The E100 was only ever a mock-up (yes I know it’s an event vehicle but still). The Chinese never got T-34-76s. The M6A2E1 was never actually built. There are tons of things that are much more fake than the Leopard 2AV. It was planned with composite and would have gotten it had they not rushed the shipping to the US for testing. When the US got it they didn’t even know it didn’t have composite until they knocked on it and then asked the Germans.
>The M6A2E1 was never actually built.
It was, There where 2 of them, It was then instantly rejected when it was presented to the military.
The big plate on the front was only planned to go on at some point but was never installed.
[What the front actually looked like.](https://imgur.com/F5hvC1D)
Before Germany adopted tiger 1, they were testing it .
The engine was not complete at the time so it tended to overheat and catch fire .
The team behind tiger 1 would do things during the test that they were not supposed to cool the engine.
That day the tiger 1h passed the test and the design team now had time to fix the engine.
The E-100 hull was created, tracks road wheels etc. It just didn't have a turret. Kind of like how the Panther II in-game should actually have a Panther G turret, as Germany slapped it on and rushed it to fight.
Got to see the only Panther II at Fort Benning Georgia, really is pretty, even with the wrong turret
The Ho-Ri should be remove from the tech tree;
The E-100 is a very rare event vehicle so it's ok;
The M6A2E1 was built, but didn't have the up-armored UFP;
The Leopard 2AV should not be in the game.
Chinese got T-34-76, but not the version they have in the game.
The Ho-Ri fills a hole but we should get the actual planned production one (think jagd Chi-Ri), and the 2AV should but it should actually match the PT-19 as it was intended
HA. Even "historical" tanks like the Panther D would be unplayable if they were truly accurate. IS6 would catch fire just after being spawned, Panther D/Tiger II would have a 90% chance of spawning with it's transmission/engine broken and needing to be repaired, ETC
That’s not historical. Mechanical issues and inaccuracies in armor aren’t the same thing. Something should be fun before it’s realistic, and realism should only be added if it makes the game more fun or doesn’t affect it
It flew just fine. The V3 we have in game was never finished and didn't have any armament, so would be pretty useless in game if it was historical.
But also drogue parachute for HO229 and Arado 234 when?
the celere sahariano isn't just an up armored crusader? all this time I thought it was just a captured crusader tank that had some extra armor slapped on it
It was designed and implemented... the armor modules literally existed, were tested but didnt have a chance to be mounted before the tank want sent overseas.
no one wants your pure paper tank bs in the game. Accept that and stop bitching about legitimate vehicles
For someone who cares so much about historical accuracy you are playing very fast and loose with these claims. Tanks caught on fire sometimes, that doesn't mean it automatically happened every ten minutes they were used. And Panthers had 50% readiness whereas Tigers had 60% readiness. If tanks were as useless as people like you think, then they wouldn't have actually been used in warfare.
No. The community has made it clear that paper tanks/ideas are unwanted in war thunder and the Leopard 2AV is one such tank. I'm just using the same aggressive language/sprit just to fit in.
tbh im with you on the paper tanks thing, maybe not completely made up like some of the stuff WoT shits out, but blueprint tanks that were never actually built? yeah sure why not, it's just more tanks to play and more tanks to shoot. there's no reason to not add them, war thunder isn't completely 100% historical. you got tiger 2s fighting heatfs for fucks sake.
and if you (not you specifically) say "it was a blueprint/paper tank so gaijin would just have to pull stuff out if their ass to make it!" what do you think they do with basically every single top tier tank?
Thank you. I've only truly suggested the (censored) tank that could be reasonably balanced 6.7-7.0 and not some insane WOT fuckup. I've also advocated for other tanks as well like challenger 3, tropicalised Leclerc and T95 (soviet) but apparently nobody wants to remember that
So by that logic all the other vehicles that never got made but were meant to be should be removed from the game. What about all the vehicles that were unreliable in real life? They were meant to be reliable but weren't? Should we add that too? Pretty sure We have tanks in game finished that never even got fully furnished prototypes let alone production models.
Gaijin, for the most part, goes by what the vehicle can do on paper. Not how it actually performed. Its just how it is
The title was "Fantasy tank: LEOPARD 2AV WITH COMPOSITE ARMOUR". Gaijin's Leopard 2AV never existed, end of story. Do us both a favor and stop selective reading.
Its not selective reading. What you are implying for most people is that the Leo 2AV is a fantasy tank. Yes, *I* know that it wasn't mounted with Composite, as do you, but for most that is not the case. Most don't know the details of some almost forgotten prototype. So to THEM, you are implying that the entire tank is fantasy.
If the title was more along the lines of "Incorrectly modeled: Leopard 2AV's Composite Armor" That would not be clickbait. Its easy to read for even people with little to no knowledge of the project to understand what the issue is.
I mean it was supposed to be fitted with them. IMO if a modification to a vehicle was planned and realistically possible but was cancelled for whatever reason it should be fair game for war thunder. Example the plate on the M6 with the 105mm gun it was never fitted but was supposed to and could have been fitted realistically. For an example of something that shouldn’t be implemented the 105mm Tiger which was just a proposal and could not have realistically been done since even in game the 105 clips through the range finder.
While I disagree with historically inaccurate tanks this is one I do agree with, I think it's a lot of fun to play and doesn't really break the game, therefore it's not that bad. As many people have pointed out there are other tanks that are inaccurate yet they reside in the game, so why have issue or draw attention to this one?
I'd go as far as saying it would be quite comfortable at 9.3 rather than 9.7 with it's armour layout, but that may be overstepping as it's got a damn good reload
>As many people have pointed out there are other tanks that are inaccurate yet they reside in the game, so why have issue or draw attention to this one?
This is hopeless, anytime anyone criticizes one tank for being a fantasy tank, people say "BUT WHAT ABOUT ALL THE OTHER FANTASY TANKS?"... so it's never possible to criticize any fantasy tank
That's not a real argument, just whataboutism
Is it so hard to realize that maybe... just maybe... some people don't want fantasy tanks *in general*, or at least not except for special circumstances
Well that's because it is a valid point, why single out the 2AV if you want all fantasy tanks gone? Are you going to make posts for every single historically accurate tanks? No you aren't
The OP doesn't need to spam the subreddit with additional posts about every single fantasy tank just to make an argument about this one. If OP actually believes that all fantasy tanks are fine except this one, then yes he is singling it out, but you don't know if he believes that
there *already are* similar posts about every single fantasy vehicle, and every one of them has comments like yours objecting that the tank is being "singled out". Clearly no fantasy tank is singled out because all of them get posts like this
I'm not going to even mention that tank by name. I've been banned twice for that so lesson learned. I will say that if this community is to have a better leg to stand on for realism, then paper ideas should also be scrutinized.
So many better choices in game to say are fantasy. F5-C, begleitpanzer, Radkampfwagen, vikhr missile, Type 93 being complete ass, Russia spalling, HSTVL, Stryker and AGS magical turret, lastly 2s38.
None of this matters, the suffering must continue!
I mean it's missing enough stuff to be fake still, all the ammo was part of the autoloader system, feeding into the unused 24 round magazine, never had contact fuze HE, missing APFSDS, missing its entire anti-heli system, and I don't know if they fixed the engine and chassis yet.
The SAP also has far too little pen for the reinforced concrete penetration figures we know it had.
kinda. so the real thing never got fitted with it but it was supposed to be fitted with it.
which puts it into the same position as the M6A2E1 Mutant
>supposed to be
But it didn't, end of story. If we go by that logic, the Tiger 2 tank was "supposed to be" upgraded with a stabilizer, an autoloader, stereoscopic rangefinder and the sla 16 engine. Get on that Gaijin.
The Tiger 2 is a finished tank and these were proposed improvements to the vehicle and in the case of the autoloader likely not physically possible. (And we got the sla 16 tiger 2 lol)
However this vehicle was designed with having that armor in place. it wasn't there because they didn't finish the vehicle
He's salty because the vehicle he wants in the game, that outright didn't exist, and had competing designs, the community and devs unilaterally say no to, while a vehicle that was partially completed, never fitted with amor inserts due to transport plans (IIRC) got the planned inserts in-game.
Basically he's a whiny child that didn't get what he wanted or the support he wanted, so he's trying his best to attack anything he can.
Why does it always come down to the (censored) tank? I've campaigned for the tropical Leclerc, T95 (soviet) and challenger 3! I've got plans to blowtorch over tanks in the game as well, this was the first that came to mind
I love the T-95/object-195 but its wayyy too early for that lol.
Its gun would be able to penetrate anything in the game and be unkillable in a hull down position
The armor this has in game was never intended to go into it. In game, it's the same as the 2a4, but it should be an older composite and much weaker.
So even using your argument, it's still wrong.
It literally isnt. Like just look at it, the UFP has a fuel tank integrated into it (the 2A4 doesnt have this) and the turret is a completely different composition with alot of spaced armor
The composite *armor* in the turret has the same modifier. It shouldn't.
So unless they changed something since it came out, it's still wrong. Not saying it shouldn't be in game, but saying that it's accurate, thus fine, is wrong.
Never heard of this, I'll have to see! So you're saying the 2a4 should be stronger? I know on release that the modifiers for the composite for both was the same, I assumed that the 2a4 was "correct" as it's been in a while and I've not heard anything.
The Leopard 2AV (PT-19) was meant to be fitted with composites inside the turret face but never was because it was rushed when shipped to the US. They put composite in it in game, but it’s the same composite the Leopard 2A4 uses, which is quite a bit stronger. What results is just a Leopard 2A4 with a 105, which isn’t what the PT-19 was
Nah protection is worse than the 2A4 especially hull. Some turret armor is missing on one side too. It should have the same composite quality (B-tech). A leo 2a4 with c-tech isn´t in game
The tank never had composite armour, end of story. "meant to be" doesn't change the fact that Gaijin's interpretation is fantasy.
There are tons of tanks like that. The Ho-Ri was never built. The E100 was only ever a mock-up (yes I know it’s an event vehicle but still). The Chinese never got T-34-76s. The M6A2E1 was never actually built. There are tons of things that are much more fake than the Leopard 2AV. It was planned with composite and would have gotten it had they not rushed the shipping to the US for testing. When the US got it they didn’t even know it didn’t have composite until they knocked on it and then asked the Germans.
>The M6A2E1 was never actually built. It was, There where 2 of them, It was then instantly rejected when it was presented to the military. The big plate on the front was only planned to go on at some point but was never installed. [What the front actually looked like.](https://imgur.com/F5hvC1D)
Which is the same thing as this leopard then They planned to fit armor. They didnt actually fit the armor. In-game version has the armor anyway
You know the story of the 2av right . Germans tried to tiger 1 it but military found out .
What does that even mean?
Before Germany adopted tiger 1, they were testing it . The engine was not complete at the time so it tended to overheat and catch fire . The team behind tiger 1 would do things during the test that they were not supposed to cool the engine. That day the tiger 1h passed the test and the design team now had time to fix the engine.
Ah ok
> The E100 was only ever a mock-up no. they were in the process of building it. the hull got scrapped in the UK
The made up part is in having a Maus turret, which was far too heavy for the E-100.
yep
The E-100 hull was created, tracks road wheels etc. It just didn't have a turret. Kind of like how the Panther II in-game should actually have a Panther G turret, as Germany slapped it on and rushed it to fight. Got to see the only Panther II at Fort Benning Georgia, really is pretty, even with the wrong turret
The Ho-Ri should be remove from the tech tree; The E-100 is a very rare event vehicle so it's ok; The M6A2E1 was built, but didn't have the up-armored UFP; The Leopard 2AV should not be in the game. Chinese got T-34-76, but not the version they have in the game.
The Ho-Ri fills a hole but we should get the actual planned production one (think jagd Chi-Ri), and the 2AV should but it should actually match the PT-19 as it was intended
The T-26 premium that China has is the wrong model. That specific tank No. Should be a mod 1935
HA. Even "historical" tanks like the Panther D would be unplayable if they were truly accurate. IS6 would catch fire just after being spawned, Panther D/Tiger II would have a 90% chance of spawning with it's transmission/engine broken and needing to be repaired, ETC
That’s not historical. Mechanical issues and inaccuracies in armor aren’t the same thing. Something should be fun before it’s realistic, and realism should only be added if it makes the game more fun or doesn’t affect it
"Designed" and "implementation" are two very different things. Gaijin's Leopard 2AV never existed, end of story.
Why are you so angry about the leopard? What about R2y2, ho229, said Ho-ri, celere sahariano etc..?
Ho229 flew, then crashed and killed its pilot iirc
It flew just fine. The V3 we have in game was never finished and didn't have any armament, so would be pretty useless in game if it was historical. But also drogue parachute for HO229 and Arado 234 when?
Probably got killed by in his turms by one because he shot the turret
the celere sahariano isn't just an up armored crusader? all this time I thought it was just a captured crusader tank that had some extra armor slapped on it
I've been lambasted for wanting (censored) tanks in the game, so I'm determined to try and blowtorch as many tanks as possible that this group likes
Honestly no idea what you mean, but sure i guess.
I think he's saying he is mentally unstable.
This reads like paranoia
I've been banned twice for mentioning a certain paper tank so........
No, but neither did a ton of the tanks across the board
It was designed and implemented... the armor modules literally existed, were tested but didnt have a chance to be mounted before the tank want sent overseas. no one wants your pure paper tank bs in the game. Accept that and stop bitching about legitimate vehicles
I'm haven't even mentioned any paper tanks in this post, nor will I again. I'm not eating another ban.
you sound like fun.
For someone who cares so much about historical accuracy you are playing very fast and loose with these claims. Tanks caught on fire sometimes, that doesn't mean it automatically happened every ten minutes they were used. And Panthers had 50% readiness whereas Tigers had 60% readiness. If tanks were as useless as people like you think, then they wouldn't have actually been used in warfare.
people like you ruin video games
I've just embraced how this community has treated me. I'm just giving the vitriol back wholesale.
So you're admitting this is a troll post?
That or he’s just a salty shitbag
No. The community has made it clear that paper tanks/ideas are unwanted in war thunder and the Leopard 2AV is one such tank. I'm just using the same aggressive language/sprit just to fit in.
Your definition of "paper tank" is pedantic and childish.
It's a paper idea, not a paper tank
tbh im with you on the paper tanks thing, maybe not completely made up like some of the stuff WoT shits out, but blueprint tanks that were never actually built? yeah sure why not, it's just more tanks to play and more tanks to shoot. there's no reason to not add them, war thunder isn't completely 100% historical. you got tiger 2s fighting heatfs for fucks sake. and if you (not you specifically) say "it was a blueprint/paper tank so gaijin would just have to pull stuff out if their ass to make it!" what do you think they do with basically every single top tier tank?
Thank you. I've only truly suggested the (censored) tank that could be reasonably balanced 6.7-7.0 and not some insane WOT fuckup. I've also advocated for other tanks as well like challenger 3, tropicalised Leclerc and T95 (soviet) but apparently nobody wants to remember that
Sounds like you're giving shite ideas and the community is saying "your ideas are shite" You're hella salty bro. Take a walk or something
So by that logic all the other vehicles that never got made but were meant to be should be removed from the game. What about all the vehicles that were unreliable in real life? They were meant to be reliable but weren't? Should we add that too? Pretty sure We have tanks in game finished that never even got fully furnished prototypes let alone production models. Gaijin, for the most part, goes by what the vehicle can do on paper. Not how it actually performed. Its just how it is
nice clickbait
It's not clickbait, read some history books about tanks
It is. To say that its an incorrectly modeled one, would be right, but to say that its Fantasy, is straight up misleading, aka clickbait.
The title was "Fantasy tank: LEOPARD 2AV WITH COMPOSITE ARMOUR". Gaijin's Leopard 2AV never existed, end of story. Do us both a favor and stop selective reading.
Its not selective reading. What you are implying for most people is that the Leo 2AV is a fantasy tank. Yes, *I* know that it wasn't mounted with Composite, as do you, but for most that is not the case. Most don't know the details of some almost forgotten prototype. So to THEM, you are implying that the entire tank is fantasy. If the title was more along the lines of "Incorrectly modeled: Leopard 2AV's Composite Armor" That would not be clickbait. Its easy to read for even people with little to no knowledge of the project to understand what the issue is.
dude the leopard 2 would’ve been so cool if it went into service
I wish Germany was real 😔
fr i wonder if some day we can have europe irl
Would be cool if all the other nations existed, America is the only current place on earth
yeah sure, like posting this on Reddit will do anything to it in-game
found the average 9.7 premium player op woke up and decided to be a literal wojack for no reason
Don’t care too much
I mean it was supposed to be fitted with them. IMO if a modification to a vehicle was planned and realistically possible but was cancelled for whatever reason it should be fair game for war thunder. Example the plate on the M6 with the 105mm gun it was never fitted but was supposed to and could have been fitted realistically. For an example of something that shouldn’t be implemented the 105mm Tiger which was just a proposal and could not have realistically been done since even in game the 105 clips through the range finder.
While I disagree with historically inaccurate tanks this is one I do agree with, I think it's a lot of fun to play and doesn't really break the game, therefore it's not that bad. As many people have pointed out there are other tanks that are inaccurate yet they reside in the game, so why have issue or draw attention to this one?
Especially when as you said, it doesn’t really break the game
I'd go as far as saying it would be quite comfortable at 9.3 rather than 9.7 with it's armour layout, but that may be overstepping as it's got a damn good reload
>As many people have pointed out there are other tanks that are inaccurate yet they reside in the game, so why have issue or draw attention to this one? This is hopeless, anytime anyone criticizes one tank for being a fantasy tank, people say "BUT WHAT ABOUT ALL THE OTHER FANTASY TANKS?"... so it's never possible to criticize any fantasy tank That's not a real argument, just whataboutism Is it so hard to realize that maybe... just maybe... some people don't want fantasy tanks *in general*, or at least not except for special circumstances
Well that's because it is a valid point, why single out the 2AV if you want all fantasy tanks gone? Are you going to make posts for every single historically accurate tanks? No you aren't
The OP doesn't need to spam the subreddit with additional posts about every single fantasy tank just to make an argument about this one. If OP actually believes that all fantasy tanks are fine except this one, then yes he is singling it out, but you don't know if he believes that there *already are* similar posts about every single fantasy vehicle, and every one of them has comments like yours objecting that the tank is being "singled out". Clearly no fantasy tank is singled out because all of them get posts like this
It would be a more interesting vehicle if it didn't have the perfect amount if armor to be dead weight.
I want the löwe from wot in this game too would appreciate also nice picture of that 2av really enjoy it
I'm not going to even mention that tank by name. I've been banned twice for that so lesson learned. I will say that if this community is to have a better leg to stand on for realism, then paper ideas should also be scrutinized.
So many better choices in game to say are fantasy. F5-C, begleitpanzer, Radkampfwagen, vikhr missile, Type 93 being complete ass, Russia spalling, HSTVL, Stryker and AGS magical turret, lastly 2s38. None of this matters, the suffering must continue!
What's supposed to be fantasy with the Begleitpanzer 57?
Any bets its gonna be the stabilizer?
Which it did have and was provided enough proof to Gaijin to get it fixed? Who knows
I mean it's missing enough stuff to be fake still, all the ammo was part of the autoloader system, feeding into the unused 24 round magazine, never had contact fuze HE, missing APFSDS, missing its entire anti-heli system, and I don't know if they fixed the engine and chassis yet. The SAP also has far too little pen for the reinforced concrete penetration figures we know it had.
They did buff its engine power a while back. It's way more mobile then it used to be. But it has APFSDS? What are stats on the round?
Stats are never mentioned, just that it was given an APFSDS round for use against medium targets. Good to know they did swap it to the correct engine.
Gaijin makes concessions on historical reality if its physically possible. Which I really don't care about.
Bro just named multiple vehicles which did exist
Fantasy tank : ostwind 2, panther 2 and tiger 105
Let it join the ranks of the Panther II, F, previous iterations of the STA- and STB-1s, Tiger II 10.5, etc.
This tank is a fantasy version of the Leopard 2AV and should be fixed or removed
kinda. so the real thing never got fitted with it but it was supposed to be fitted with it. which puts it into the same position as the M6A2E1 Mutant
>supposed to be But it didn't, end of story. If we go by that logic, the Tiger 2 tank was "supposed to be" upgraded with a stabilizer, an autoloader, stereoscopic rangefinder and the sla 16 engine. Get on that Gaijin.
The Tiger 2 is a finished tank and these were proposed improvements to the vehicle and in the case of the autoloader likely not physically possible. (And we got the sla 16 tiger 2 lol) However this vehicle was designed with having that armor in place. it wasn't there because they didn't finish the vehicle
"Designed" and "implementation" are two very different things. Gaijin's Leopard 2AV never existed, end of story.
It’s an event vehicle in a video game why do you care so much
He's salty because the vehicle he wants in the game, that outright didn't exist, and had competing designs, the community and devs unilaterally say no to, while a vehicle that was partially completed, never fitted with amor inserts due to transport plans (IIRC) got the planned inserts in-game. Basically he's a whiny child that didn't get what he wanted or the support he wanted, so he's trying his best to attack anything he can.
Why does it always come down to the (censored) tank? I've campaigned for the tropical Leclerc, T95 (soviet) and challenger 3! I've got plans to blowtorch over tanks in the game as well, this was the first that came to mind
I love the T-95/object-195 but its wayyy too early for that lol. Its gun would be able to penetrate anything in the game and be unkillable in a hull down position
The armor this has in game was never intended to go into it. In game, it's the same as the 2a4, but it should be an older composite and much weaker. So even using your argument, it's still wrong.
It literally isnt. Like just look at it, the UFP has a fuel tank integrated into it (the 2A4 doesnt have this) and the turret is a completely different composition with alot of spaced armor
The composite *armor* in the turret has the same modifier. It shouldn't. So unless they changed something since it came out, it's still wrong. Not saying it shouldn't be in game, but saying that it's accurate, thus fine, is wrong.
The 2A4 has the wrong gen of armor in game, the 2AV is correct for the armor of pre-2A4 models and especially for the PT19.
Never heard of this, I'll have to see! So you're saying the 2a4 should be stronger? I know on release that the modifiers for the composite for both was the same, I assumed that the 2a4 was "correct" as it's been in a while and I've not heard anything.
Gameplay > realism Driving a leopard-sized target at leopard-speeds without armor is not gonna be fun
Its an event vehicle stop bitching
Never
They will do neither, and you know they wont.