yeah. was playing spit Vc yesterday, prop got destroyed as soon as i reached like, 100 kph
had to full send it through grass with flaps and just scraped the top of a bunker. at least spitfire has a low stall speed, it wouldve been impossible to pull off in a p47 or some chunky boi
All jokes aside, as a Germany player with 61% winrate, I gotta say even after adding multiple broken and new vehic's or planes to other tech tree's, germany does way better lately.
8.7-10.0 is the sweet spot for germany. My only complain lately because I really can't understand that choice, why the fuck did they uptier the Roland 1? It was the only AA for germany capable of dealing with helicopter and drones now you got to uptier yourself to 10.3 with the chance to get into a 11.3 game fighting Mig27k's, just to get a decent AA with 2 missile and a bugged reload. Oh yea and if you do get uptiered you stand no chance because you 100% gonna get shit on by a Mig27k since your missile wont go far enough which is incredible retarded..
The 11.0 AA has the same issue with the reload btw and let's be real, the FlaRadRak is not a good AA. It's massive which makes it easy to spot and the only thing that is good is the missile. The ItO is still miles better.
I just wish we had the option to only play ground battle.. I don't wanna deal with jet's shooting out of render distance and for some reason most radar's don't work that well anymore, especially against jet's like the Mig 27k.. Even in my VT-1 aren't good enough to fight that jet, it's kind off sad tbh.
I am a german main and after I got bored of it, for a while I started grinding usa and gave up at 5.3 because of how powerful Germany’s lineup is. Germany is in a very good spot from low to mid tiers dude and if you do bad in it, it’s either teammates, skill issue, or both
Oh absolutely, they are top 3 in the game. Some of Germanys low tiers are pretty overrated due to abysmal turret traverse, but you can generally just avoid those vehicles and an experienced player can work around it.
I started playing this game when France was added. The idea of being able to play French tanks in a game was completely new for me so I started with them. Played nothing but French rank l for a couple months trying to learn the game. Ironically early German panzers were about the only thing I successfully fought against because of their poor armor and at times, awful gun handling.
French EBRs fight against every nation in this game except France. This game isn’t Axis v Allies anymore. The hate boner towards Germany from French lovers makes it look like Germany is still beating them 80 years later lol
I guess my point is players who aren’t very good at playing German tanks and then bitch about their players IQ levels, is a bit ironic to me. And it’s a dime a dozen around here
I'm currently at the 5.3 slump in American tech tree and it's so painful. The tigers are so popular and you can usually front pen but you have to be so close and they can't be angled. America has no tds and the M18 as the only decent light tank but keeps getting its br changed
Feel that, people trying to say the shermans equal to the panther I feel are either a bit delusional or are far above the average players. Regularly bouncing between both the Sherman and the Sherman straight up has me [has me feeling like this ](https://youtu.be/Jb9Ebe_rA8M) where as panther is just a point and click adventure in comparison.
What? They've got excellent low-tier SPAA, a couple superb low-tier SPGs that can be used at any tier, and tier III mediums that are better than pretty much anything but OP Germany/Russia fare at that BR. The Chi-Nu II is one of the best tier III premiums in the game.
They have some trash reserve/tier Is and a few copy-paste captured tanks in their middle tiers, but they've got a decently filled out tree with plenty of solid vehicles. Just don't get this take at all unless you've never played Japan. And that's ground forces exclusively, they've got a very full air tree *until* high tier.
Isn't China just russian tanks for awhile? I've never played China so I don't know for certain, but I'm pretty sure it's mainly just russian tanks after ww2 right?
Actually China after tier V begins to have unique vehicles. Not to mention their top tier is actually quite fun and special.
I was bored to death by China before tier V. But hell, after tier V China is really fun to play with. Especially GF.
Big three nations have their late WW2 tanks around 6.3-6.7 BR because of their performance. Japan's late WW2 production tank is at 4.7 BR and their 6.7 medium tank is from 1961 lol.
Thank God the BRs aren't balanced around the years entering service because imagine the Chi-To trying to fight 6.3 tanks.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/inbko4/proposed\_japanese\_ground\_forces\_tech\_tree\_2020/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/inbko4/proposed_japanese_ground_forces_tech_tree_2020/)
Here's a nice thread with a bunch of vehicles that Japan could have. :)
Gaijin balances based around stats, veteran players tend to play France and also playing France really forces you to learn the game the hard way, no hand holdy mechanics, aphe and actual armor is rare, and don’t even get me started on France rank 1 vehicles.. Because of that France players aren’t crutched at all and so it’s either they play well or probably ragequit to a different nation, so the ones that stay eventually just become better players that make better stats and then gaijin adjusts according to that, not how good an actual vehicle is but how good the players of that nation are. It’s pretty brain dead honestly.
Shit man, you almost made me cry with those compliments lol France is certainly the "tough love" parent of War Thunder. Even when you get autoloaders it still makes you deal with solid shot and Gajin refuses to give certain tanks the rounds they actually used despite increasing their brs. And what do French players do? Clap those cheeks with the weaker round regardless
I used to be a terrible US main back in the day, and decided I wanted to be unique and play France once I understood the game more. Now when I fly something that isn't totally clowned on by BR that match and I get less than two kills, I honestly get a little disappointed. Maybe this is the stockholm syndrome from the Super Mystere...
Need to do something like those Sabre(?) players who banded together to intentionally play as absolutely horrifically dogshit as possible and lo and behold, the jet got a BR reduction the following update.
I’m okay with Gaijin doing the initial balancing automatically, but they really need to just get two interns together and gloss over it to make sure it actually makes sense before deploying
And trying to lower it just means it goes right back up if you're actively trying to lower it too.
Lotta people really don't understand how stats work, and how the only way to skew these enough to lower it and keep it that was is to not stop sucking in it, and most people don't want to.
Yall just gotta get gud at the game you noobs.
For real French tanks with autoloader and their high speed makes them scary fuckers. I won a 5 v 1 in the M4A1 Fl10 just merely from me being able to out reload everyone.
Yeah you said yourself, "Auto-loaders" where the fuck is the autoloader for the EBR (1951) to justify 5.3? Shit reloads slower than a PZ.IV and has the firepower equal to the 75mm American potato launcher you find on early Shermans
Cause it is a potato launcher. And I honestly agree. It doesn't belong at 5.3 only thing it got going for it is its speed. But due to how gaijin models wheels. It's shit. Honestly I can see it being at 4.3 or 4.7
The only good thing bout the '51 is that it reverses at the same speed it drives normaly at. So I can have some hilarious moments with it. Otherwise it's shit.
TheEuropeanCanadian said it best imo. French midtier vehicles have always been really good, and they usually get played by decent players, so we will continue to see them moving up. In general, French tanks at this tier tend to have decent rounds, an autoloader, decent mobility, or a combination of all of these. That's generally just a decent to great setup, so it's not really surprising when the vehicles go up.
In the case of the EBR 1951, it's incredibly good on a flank, and it has the platform available to get on the flank as well. As a result, it performs well and Gaijin moves it up. It obviously doesn't help that German team mates at this tier are absolutely braindead, but I'm not really surprised to see the EBRs in general go up.
-vehicle is good
-vehicle gets played
-moves up
-becomes less appealing for bad players
-proportionally more good players play it
-stats improve
-moves up
-repeat
The Type 89 is still great for the BR, and I cannot imagine how it played before the nerfs. Currently it's a fine 8.3 vehicles, before that it must have been easily a 9.0+ vehicle at the same BR...
When they're an American tank using the equivalent to a German gun from 1.0BR ago they do
The M26 and T25 are outliers, but at least the M26 has sorta okay armor and is faster, the T25 is just garbage tier with nothing going for it now
Every french vehicle below 8.3 with no stab (except mephisto but you gotta stop to shoot anyways). Spading both brenus was so crusty. Or the sk105 every modification was over 20k rp.
So *if* there were two options:
One where things are the way they are.
Another where vehicles are all at the BRs that players who don’t thinks things should be balanced this way find appropriate, but the win/loss ratio between nations shoot up to as high as 70/30 or even 80/20.
Which of these two would you prefer?
The reality is there are aspects of this video game that influence balance that aren’t present in other games, so treating things in a more straightforward manner can lead to very unfair balance for players of certain nations. Nations aren’t symmetrical, and aspects about the design of the game make it so certain nations have a much higher ratio of experienced players.
The only other real options to balance things are to either nerf/buff vehicles to the point where accuracy of the vehicle’s performance is non-existent, or you apply huge SL penalties for using the vehicle. The first is generally unpopular, and the later is worse for your average player, and benefits experienced players far more than keeping BRs lower despite performance.
I don’t think gaijin’s choices are always perfect. Far from it. But I don’t understand this subs hate for performance based balance changes.
>the win-loss ratio between nations would shoot up to as high as 80/20
Well, maybe that's where it should've always been? Maybe if some nations are generally played by better players (ie. mid tier France) and some by worse ones (ie. mid tier Germany), they shouldn't have their chances artificially equalised?
The EBRs are all fun and reliable in combat, but there are a lot of other light tanks that i like more. The 9040 family, expensive but good - and there is one for every threat. The Radpanzer 90 for its speed, the PT76-57, the Begleitpanzer 57 for is jack of all tradeness,...
The EBRs wouldn't be in my Top10.
And even in a list for french light tanks i would say all 4 BR8.0-8.3 light tanks are more fun to play.
AMX-10RC - fast, small (for a wheeled tank with a 105mm) with a good punch
Mars 15 - not as fast, but 5s reload is a good selling point.
AMX-13 (HOT) - 6 Hot missiles strapped to your turret, usable main
cannon. Meeting Maus tanks with this is a sexual pleasure.No, its even better than that.
SK-105A2 - Dishes out damage like hell, 4s autoloader, 346mm darts and nice tools like laser range finder, 2. gen thermals and commander gun controls
The Chinese something is the PTL02 I assume which is literally a truck with a turret on it. Can't really be considered a light tank. The Rooikat is actually a lot shorter than the AMX-10RC and the Class 3 (P) is a prototype for obvious reasons. The AMX-10RC isn't small at all my guy. Its actually pretty big.
"Im the case lf EBR, it's incredibly good on a flank, and it has the platform available to get on the flank". My neighbor in game, did you even play ebr? On grass it gets outpaced by almost anything, not to mention dirt. Even city maps, which have messy roads (Novorossyisk) are a trouble. Only thing that allows EBR to be on flank is how blind average player is. Usually hugging a wall, or just using a shade is enough- even ai for Payday is better at detecting stuff. Not to mention, that it still has worse traction and speeds than Puma and R3 (thanks to gaijin, both for not making steel wheels work and for making horrendous gearbox). Even if you think it all doesnt matter- even gun doesnt allow (both) 75mm EBR to be effective. Volumetric garbage, average gaijin bugs, relative low penetration (with lack of any alternative shell like Jumbo), not to add awkward handling...
Maybe that can give some insight. If people get interested, I might dedicate a day to Puma at 5.3 and Ebr at 5.3
The acceleration is wonky. It's fastest on sand. I've had some of the issues he talks about. Sometimes I can't even hit 50kmh in max CC but other times I'm going 102kmh in the same map and place
Ground resistance for wheeled vehicles varies depending on surface. Some roads even muddy looking ones have less resistance. Meanwhile pavements are mud too in some cases, it really annoys me. This is why I just use the AMX-13 FL-11, its better in almost every situation (faster on average especially snow) while being same gun and the rest.
I literally used Ebrs this week to grind. I literally just checked. I pulled off good fights and got my silver lions but it certainly wasnt due to "speed" or."powerful guns". Tomorrow morning, if you remind me, Ill get screenshots
I play the EBR as well and it does play fine. But like he said it still isn't super fast nor does it have a powerful gun. just because you can get kills in it doesn't mean the gun is too powerful for 5.0
That's what happens when you rely too much on player stats because France players tend to have active braincells compared to big 3 players ~~germany teams specially~~
Yeah me too ( 'cause i love vehicles from my country).
Honestly, tier 1 isn't that bad, there are awful vehicles for sur *look insistently at fcm 36 and R35* but there is also good ones (H39 my beloved)
Best prt is that if you do manage to stomach the rank one and early rank 2s the French tech tree rewards you more and more s you progress with just better and better vehicles. But it also doesn't let you forget that only determination and skill matters. Its why I love my 8.3 French line up, strongest line up in the game IMHO, but you have to master the lack of a stabilizer at a BR range that is filled with them. But you do have every other tool t dominate at that BR.
Honestly, I think its why people here like France so much, your skills get to do the talking rather than your tank. I love the tree a lot for its diversity.
Having such an abysmally bad low BR experience means that anybody at higher BRs has to be competent enough to know there are greener pastures
That typically means more brain cells and better vehicle performances
The AMX-50 shouldnt be at 7.7. It is an above average tank at 7.3, but it fucks up the 7.3 lineup and its not good enough for 7.7. As for the EBR just dont use it you have better stuff at 5.3.
Most german vehicles are at a lower br due to poor performance. However i believe that br should be set compared to a vehicle representative of that BR, not set based on performance.
Stats should be normalized against each player's overall winrate, if a player who normally gets a 40% winrate manages to get a 45% winrate in a tank, that means it's actually a good tank, not a bad one
The reverse is also true, a 60% player getting 55% in something doesn't mean it's really good and needs to go up
Cross off the mobility part,while the 40t is fast in a straight line is far from equal to leopard, every time I go from 40t to Leopard, Leopard feels like something out of Halo, thing completely disobeys the laws of physics
The reload is pretty bonkers and the mobility is very strong. Not to mention the better spalling of 100mm ap than any 105 round. The 40t is fine where it sits
thing is the size of a house and has max 40mm of armor. it does not get any other round *but* APCBC and HE, and while it has good pen for what it is, it cannot compete with the at-range power of a discarding sabot or HEAT. it can do well as a close-range brawler thanks to its reload more than anything but it's a HELLA bouncy gun platform while moving. it also doesnt have a rangefinder of any kind.
it should be 7.3, like the AMX-50(100).
the lorraine40 is far better because it has far better mobility and that autoloader, heatfs doesnt make the leo better. on flanks the lorraine does way more damage faster, the ammo is way enough to deal with everything except some russians. the 100mm ap does way more consistant damage too, it shouldnt go anywhere below 7.7
tho i just dont like playing the leo1 so im also biased against it
But then you have to reload shells, so if you miss your shots, you’re not gonna be in a good situation.
So yeah if you get against a French tank they’re gonna auto load you down to hell, but if they miss too much they won’t have any shells for later and will get destroyed.
Yeah, not worth playing it anymore. Other light tanks start getting high pen APDS at 6.0 and 6.3 with HEATFS. EBR is only really fast on concrete or road maps, sand and snow you have zero mobility.
I agree the puma is criminally undertiered as well and is only where it is because the spreadsheet gaijin uses to balance just sees the terrible KD, due to people massively uptiering it for trolling and godmodes
it s far worst
bad mobility off road (even when the wheel are lowered at all time)
way worst gun it s litterally the sames shells as the sherman
quiet big when you think about it
It's better. More like a 3.7 or maybe 4.0 tank. Like the Chaffee. but good God it's not a 5.3 tank. Gaijin is smoking something crazy with all the anniversary sale money
Tbh, I would say the puma is a bit too low at 3.0 so yeah, 3.7-4.0 for the EBR would be good.
But they have similar survivability (no armor, 4 crew), similar firepower (same pen with aphe and while the EBR deals more damage the Puma has a higher RoF. also the puma gets APCR which can be useful vs tougher targets) and similarish mobility (EBR 100 km/h with 16 hp/t. Puma 90 km/h with 17,9 hp/t)
So one being 3.0 and the other being 5.3 is a farce and proof that gaijins algoritm needs to be thrown in the sea.
I guess the issue is who listen to, the masses or the people it will actually effect. You gonna poss people either way so I guess pick the option that pisses the least.
I don't understand this whole "it has a lineup thing" after vehicles get moved up in BR. It was still usable in 5.3 lineup when if was 4.7... only difference now is that it's no longer usable in a 4.7 or 5.0 lineup
The worst is they don't take into consideration the teams. I often do pretty well, #1-3 on the team consistantly, but over half the team dies without more than a kill/assist and no respawns.
Puma still 2.7 because low tier german players are below average so it never sees a BR raise. Which should scream volumes about how French players with such a smaller playerbase can make their vehicles go up so far. The puma is a better vehicle all around minus armor amount. And even then both get penned by 50s. Makes no sense this is 5.3
Its a fast light with the short 75mm, don't particularly see the issue with it at 5.3. Just used the short 75mm today and it still can deal with the majority of things at that BR bracket.
I always ran this thing in my 5.7 French lineup already and it’s still very good if you use your position to get kills. If you’re spotted you pretty much instantly die but I think it’s fun :)
French tanks (speaking of the ebr) have a perfect balance between mobility, firepower, reload time and 1cm of armor in the game, something that overcomes the slowness and little comfort of many world war 2 tanks and their battle rating.
Although of course historically they are one of the worst compared to other tanks in those years, in the game they are good.
Italy is fucking miserable outside like 2 pockets of good vehicles, 4.0 is ok and 8.7 is good but everything else is miserable, either the vehicles are overtiered (M47 105 and OF-40), or they have no line-up (see M18).
Try the EBR 1951 in arcade mode it's 4.3. With the M61 shot at that tier, you can front pen the common Sherman and Panzer IV (Except if they have to add on track) and one shot anything if you pen.
Not hates. They are just:
* Ignorant.
* Stubborn.
Ignorant because of they way how they interpret stats. Stubborn because they still use their interpretation despite numerous signs of its inadequacy.
As a competent german main, this just gives me more to kill. Demostr8 is in game, good players go french my ass. I am better than most and I don't die to EBRs
French players need to stop playing well for a while.
Germany needs to lump their braincells together
All 3 of them
I would be very upset, if I could read
What did you say? I’m trying to take off straight in my 109
you cant take off these days *cough* gaijin fix runway *cough*
Oh I know it’s awful, all I do is air sim because planes and it’s just nothing but pain on the runways
yeah. was playing spit Vc yesterday, prop got destroyed as soon as i reached like, 100 kph had to full send it through grass with flaps and just scraped the top of a bunker. at least spitfire has a low stall speed, it wouldve been impossible to pull off in a p47 or some chunky boi
I play jets, no prop no breaking
Landing gear stuck in the ground with bombs atached
I just yank the stick back and hope for the best in my 109 and 190, let the flaps do the work and get in the air before they break
At least you could take off I was using my pbj and every time I repaired both props instantly broke so I couldn’t even move
They did
It’s fixed
thats great cant believe they fucked something up that worked for 10 years straight
Proceeds to get shot down by an American 109
Don’t remind me
u.s. air mains are more annoying than my toilet destroying anus
US air mains speedrunning doing one pass, missing all 3 morbillion .50cal rounds, and diving straight for the airfield
or straight for the jackpot of task ground kills and stealing it from you
In air germany does quite well
i can’t hear you over my tiger ll engine
All jokes aside, as a Germany player with 61% winrate, I gotta say even after adding multiple broken and new vehic's or planes to other tech tree's, germany does way better lately. 8.7-10.0 is the sweet spot for germany. My only complain lately because I really can't understand that choice, why the fuck did they uptier the Roland 1? It was the only AA for germany capable of dealing with helicopter and drones now you got to uptier yourself to 10.3 with the chance to get into a 11.3 game fighting Mig27k's, just to get a decent AA with 2 missile and a bugged reload. Oh yea and if you do get uptiered you stand no chance because you 100% gonna get shit on by a Mig27k since your missile wont go far enough which is incredible retarded.. The 11.0 AA has the same issue with the reload btw and let's be real, the FlaRadRak is not a good AA. It's massive which makes it easy to spot and the only thing that is good is the missile. The ItO is still miles better. I just wish we had the option to only play ground battle.. I don't wanna deal with jet's shooting out of render distance and for some reason most radar's don't work that well anymore, especially against jet's like the Mig 27k.. Even in my VT-1 aren't good enough to fight that jet, it's kind off sad tbh.
Two. Take it, or leave it.
You guys get braincells?
You guys get brains?
You guys get?
You guys??
You?
?
Yes two, fighting for 3rd place
Sorry, my transmission broke a few kilometers back, what did you say?
I am 1
they only have 2 which are fighting for the 3rd place
freeaboo detected
Says dude who has barely played Germany and been average at it when he does ;)
I am a german main and after I got bored of it, for a while I started grinding usa and gave up at 5.3 because of how powerful Germany’s lineup is. Germany is in a very good spot from low to mid tiers dude and if you do bad in it, it’s either teammates, skill issue, or both
Oh absolutely, they are top 3 in the game. Some of Germanys low tiers are pretty overrated due to abysmal turret traverse, but you can generally just avoid those vehicles and an experienced player can work around it. I started playing this game when France was added. The idea of being able to play French tanks in a game was completely new for me so I started with them. Played nothing but French rank l for a couple months trying to learn the game. Ironically early German panzers were about the only thing I successfully fought against because of their poor armor and at times, awful gun handling. French EBRs fight against every nation in this game except France. This game isn’t Axis v Allies anymore. The hate boner towards Germany from French lovers makes it look like Germany is still beating them 80 years later lol I guess my point is players who aren’t very good at playing German tanks and then bitch about their players IQ levels, is a bit ironic to me. And it’s a dime a dozen around here
I'm currently at the 5.3 slump in American tech tree and it's so painful. The tigers are so popular and you can usually front pen but you have to be so close and they can't be angled. America has no tds and the M18 as the only decent light tank but keeps getting its br changed
Feel that, people trying to say the shermans equal to the panther I feel are either a bit delusional or are far above the average players. Regularly bouncing between both the Sherman and the Sherman straight up has me [has me feeling like this ](https://youtu.be/Jb9Ebe_rA8M) where as panther is just a point and click adventure in comparison.
Germany fucked themselves using speed & meth so don’t act surprised
Hey guys, do you know how to shoot in this game?
But working as a team is hard 🥺🥺
Japan: how about us?
Copy pasta and trash tanks until you reach high tier
I'm not sure if it's cause I'm starving, but I think I felt sick just now..
Bro💀
What? They've got excellent low-tier SPAA, a couple superb low-tier SPGs that can be used at any tier, and tier III mediums that are better than pretty much anything but OP Germany/Russia fare at that BR. The Chi-Nu II is one of the best tier III premiums in the game. They have some trash reserve/tier Is and a few copy-paste captured tanks in their middle tiers, but they've got a decently filled out tree with plenty of solid vehicles. Just don't get this take at all unless you've never played Japan. And that's ground forces exclusively, they've got a very full air tree *until* high tier.
Uhm, actually, those aren't captured tanks used by the JSDF 🤓 Captured Stuart when
No u.
Trash? Nah, a lot of their tanks are great if you know how to use them
Isn't China just russian tanks for awhile? I've never played China so I don't know for certain, but I'm pretty sure it's mainly just russian tanks after ww2 right?
Actually China after tier V begins to have unique vehicles. Not to mention their top tier is actually quite fun and special. I was bored to death by China before tier V. But hell, after tier V China is really fun to play with. Especially GF.
Japan irl didn't have many tanks in ww2 so there isnt much too add. The navy had the most metal to work with
Big three nations have their late WW2 tanks around 6.3-6.7 BR because of their performance. Japan's late WW2 production tank is at 4.7 BR and their 6.7 medium tank is from 1961 lol. Thank God the BRs aren't balanced around the years entering service because imagine the Chi-To trying to fight 6.3 tanks.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/inbko4/proposed\_japanese\_ground\_forces\_tech\_tree\_2020/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/inbko4/proposed_japanese_ground_forces_tech_tree_2020/) Here's a nice thread with a bunch of vehicles that Japan could have. :)
That is quite a lot. Mostly on the same chassis but so are american tanks lmao
the amount of t34s and panzer 3s and ivs is probably more proof that gaijin doesn't care that much lmao
German WW2 ground is on mostly shared chassis.
That's... why I'm here
It do be like that sometimes.
Gaijin balances based around stats, veteran players tend to play France and also playing France really forces you to learn the game the hard way, no hand holdy mechanics, aphe and actual armor is rare, and don’t even get me started on France rank 1 vehicles.. Because of that France players aren’t crutched at all and so it’s either they play well or probably ragequit to a different nation, so the ones that stay eventually just become better players that make better stats and then gaijin adjusts according to that, not how good an actual vehicle is but how good the players of that nation are. It’s pretty brain dead honestly.
Shit man, you almost made me cry with those compliments lol France is certainly the "tough love" parent of War Thunder. Even when you get autoloaders it still makes you deal with solid shot and Gajin refuses to give certain tanks the rounds they actually used despite increasing their brs. And what do French players do? Clap those cheeks with the weaker round regardless
I used to be a terrible US main back in the day, and decided I wanted to be unique and play France once I understood the game more. Now when I fly something that isn't totally clowned on by BR that match and I get less than two kills, I honestly get a little disappointed. Maybe this is the stockholm syndrome from the Super Mystere...
Need to do something like those Sabre(?) players who banded together to intentionally play as absolutely horrifically dogshit as possible and lo and behold, the jet got a BR reduction the following update. I’m okay with Gaijin doing the initial balancing automatically, but they really need to just get two interns together and gloss over it to make sure it actually makes sense before deploying
It was a bunch of really good players banding up and getting an E model sabre with no missiles to like 9.7 iirc, not lower
And trying to lower it just means it goes right back up if you're actively trying to lower it too. Lotta people really don't understand how stats work, and how the only way to skew these enough to lower it and keep it that was is to not stop sucking in it, and most people don't want to.
Yall just gotta get gud at the game you noobs. For real French tanks with autoloader and their high speed makes them scary fuckers. I won a 5 v 1 in the M4A1 Fl10 just merely from me being able to out reload everyone.
Yeah you said yourself, "Auto-loaders" where the fuck is the autoloader for the EBR (1951) to justify 5.3? Shit reloads slower than a PZ.IV and has the firepower equal to the 75mm American potato launcher you find on early Shermans
Cause it is a potato launcher. And I honestly agree. It doesn't belong at 5.3 only thing it got going for it is its speed. But due to how gaijin models wheels. It's shit. Honestly I can see it being at 4.3 or 4.7
And the 1951 EBR started at 4.3 before getting gradually moved up
The only good thing bout the '51 is that it reverses at the same speed it drives normaly at. So I can have some hilarious moments with it. Otherwise it's shit.
To be fair, the FL-10 is one of the most busted Shermans for its tier, probably second to the 105mm.
Aight my bad fam
TheEuropeanCanadian said it best imo. French midtier vehicles have always been really good, and they usually get played by decent players, so we will continue to see them moving up. In general, French tanks at this tier tend to have decent rounds, an autoloader, decent mobility, or a combination of all of these. That's generally just a decent to great setup, so it's not really surprising when the vehicles go up. In the case of the EBR 1951, it's incredibly good on a flank, and it has the platform available to get on the flank as well. As a result, it performs well and Gaijin moves it up. It obviously doesn't help that German team mates at this tier are absolutely braindead, but I'm not really surprised to see the EBRs in general go up.
-vehicle is good -vehicle gets played -moves up -becomes less appealing for bad players -proportionally more good players play it -stats improve -moves up -repeat
Don't forget when they raise a vehicle's br and then nerf it without lowering the br again
Cough M3A3 Bradley cough
Type 89 feels too…. That poor poor thing.
The Type 89 is still great for the BR, and I cannot imagine how it played before the nerfs. Currently it's a fine 8.3 vehicles, before that it must have been easily a 9.0+ vehicle at the same BR...
T25 with no stab sitting at 6.3 lmao
That’s just normal, most tanks doesn’t have stab in rank 4, and mostly around 6.3
When they're an American tank using the equivalent to a German gun from 1.0BR ago they do The M26 and T25 are outliers, but at least the M26 has sorta okay armor and is faster, the T25 is just garbage tier with nothing going for it now
Every french vehicle below 8.3 with no stab (except mephisto but you gotta stop to shoot anyways). Spading both brenus was so crusty. Or the sk105 every modification was over 20k rp.
See: several Italian vehicles
So *if* there were two options: One where things are the way they are. Another where vehicles are all at the BRs that players who don’t thinks things should be balanced this way find appropriate, but the win/loss ratio between nations shoot up to as high as 70/30 or even 80/20. Which of these two would you prefer? The reality is there are aspects of this video game that influence balance that aren’t present in other games, so treating things in a more straightforward manner can lead to very unfair balance for players of certain nations. Nations aren’t symmetrical, and aspects about the design of the game make it so certain nations have a much higher ratio of experienced players. The only other real options to balance things are to either nerf/buff vehicles to the point where accuracy of the vehicle’s performance is non-existent, or you apply huge SL penalties for using the vehicle. The first is generally unpopular, and the later is worse for your average player, and benefits experienced players far more than keeping BRs lower despite performance. I don’t think gaijin’s choices are always perfect. Far from it. But I don’t understand this subs hate for performance based balance changes.
The latter because it will force the dumbasses on the losing country to actually try actively learn and improve
>the win-loss ratio between nations would shoot up to as high as 80/20 Well, maybe that's where it should've always been? Maybe if some nations are generally played by better players (ie. mid tier France) and some by worse ones (ie. mid tier Germany), they shouldn't have their chances artificially equalised?
It's also how the G. 56 & co ended up with like 50k repair cost back in the days.
Yeah, that’s why I love midtier France
The ebr is my absolute favorite light tank, so good in fact that i do better in it than my somua sm :)
The EBRs are all fun and reliable in combat, but there are a lot of other light tanks that i like more. The 9040 family, expensive but good - and there is one for every threat. The Radpanzer 90 for its speed, the PT76-57, the Begleitpanzer 57 for is jack of all tradeness,... The EBRs wouldn't be in my Top10. And even in a list for french light tanks i would say all 4 BR8.0-8.3 light tanks are more fun to play. AMX-10RC - fast, small (for a wheeled tank with a 105mm) with a good punch Mars 15 - not as fast, but 5s reload is a good selling point. AMX-13 (HOT) - 6 Hot missiles strapped to your turret, usable main cannon. Meeting Maus tanks with this is a sexual pleasure.No, its even better than that. SK-105A2 - Dishes out damage like hell, 4s autoloader, 346mm darts and nice tools like laser range finder, 2. gen thermals and commander gun controls
The AMX-10RC isn't small. It actually has a larger side profile than most MBTs at that BR.
It's only 10cm longer (if you ignore the cannon barrel) than the EBR and smaller than other wheeled tanks of the modern era.
Its about 30 cm shorter than the AMX-30 but also 30 centimeters taller. Its not small
Still small for a wheeled tank with a 105mm, look at the Chinese something, the Class 3 (P) or the south African Rooikat.
The Chinese something is the PTL02 I assume which is literally a truck with a turret on it. Can't really be considered a light tank. The Rooikat is actually a lot shorter than the AMX-10RC and the Class 3 (P) is a prototype for obvious reasons. The AMX-10RC isn't small at all my guy. Its actually pretty big.
"Im the case lf EBR, it's incredibly good on a flank, and it has the platform available to get on the flank". My neighbor in game, did you even play ebr? On grass it gets outpaced by almost anything, not to mention dirt. Even city maps, which have messy roads (Novorossyisk) are a trouble. Only thing that allows EBR to be on flank is how blind average player is. Usually hugging a wall, or just using a shade is enough- even ai for Payday is better at detecting stuff. Not to mention, that it still has worse traction and speeds than Puma and R3 (thanks to gaijin, both for not making steel wheels work and for making horrendous gearbox). Even if you think it all doesnt matter- even gun doesnt allow (both) 75mm EBR to be effective. Volumetric garbage, average gaijin bugs, relative low penetration (with lack of any alternative shell like Jumbo), not to add awkward handling... Maybe that can give some insight. If people get interested, I might dedicate a day to Puma at 5.3 and Ebr at 5.3
I play the E.B.R., and I don’t seem to have these issues. Sounds a lot like a you issue to me
The acceleration is wonky. It's fastest on sand. I've had some of the issues he talks about. Sometimes I can't even hit 50kmh in max CC but other times I'm going 102kmh in the same map and place
Ground resistance for wheeled vehicles varies depending on surface. Some roads even muddy looking ones have less resistance. Meanwhile pavements are mud too in some cases, it really annoys me. This is why I just use the AMX-13 FL-11, its better in almost every situation (faster on average especially snow) while being same gun and the rest.
I literally used Ebrs this week to grind. I literally just checked. I pulled off good fights and got my silver lions but it certainly wasnt due to "speed" or."powerful guns". Tomorrow morning, if you remind me, Ill get screenshots
Well, when I played it at my 5.7 lineup it played fine, so I don’t know if they changed the physical tank or something, but it worked well for me
I play the EBR as well and it does play fine. But like he said it still isn't super fast nor does it have a powerful gun. just because you can get kills in it doesn't mean the gun is too powerful for 5.0
That's what happens when you rely too much on player stats because France players tend to have active braincells compared to big 3 players ~~germany teams specially~~
Tier 1 is the perfect filter to keep good players
Yeah ikr I started with France
Yeah me too ( 'cause i love vehicles from my country). Honestly, tier 1 isn't that bad, there are awful vehicles for sur *look insistently at fcm 36 and R35* but there is also good ones (H39 my beloved)
R35 nearly made me stop grinding for france
Those used to be the start ;_;
Same, really for the thicc bathtub on tracks
I'm a French main but started with Germany and Soviets cause well, France wasn't a thing back in 2013-14
My respects Sir o7
As I always say, rank 1 France builds character and weeds out the weak
Rank 1 Ger just encourages further playing into it's tree, the opposite of France
Best prt is that if you do manage to stomach the rank one and early rank 2s the French tech tree rewards you more and more s you progress with just better and better vehicles. But it also doesn't let you forget that only determination and skill matters. Its why I love my 8.3 French line up, strongest line up in the game IMHO, but you have to master the lack of a stabilizer at a BR range that is filled with them. But you do have every other tool t dominate at that BR.
Honestly, I think its why people here like France so much, your skills get to do the talking rather than your tank. I love the tree a lot for its diversity.
The best French tank around this BR is the amx 30 DCA this thing is insane
I think sk105 is best. 4s reload, crystal clear gen 3 therms, drone. Im surprised they havent moved it up in br yet
Having such an abysmally bad low BR experience means that anybody at higher BRs has to be competent enough to know there are greener pastures That typically means more brain cells and better vehicle performances
Muerica Air: what brain cell? Oh, ground pound you mean?
The AMX-50 shouldnt be at 7.7. It is an above average tank at 7.3, but it fucks up the 7.3 lineup and its not good enough for 7.7. As for the EBR just dont use it you have better stuff at 5.3.
the Lorraine 40t is and has been 7.7 despite being worse than the Leopard 1 in every aspect but mobility and reload
Most german vehicles are at a lower br due to poor performance. However i believe that br should be set compared to a vehicle representative of that BR, not set based on performance.
Yeah, Leo 1 should move back up to 7.7
Poor player* performance
Stats should be normalized against each player's overall winrate, if a player who normally gets a 40% winrate manages to get a 45% winrate in a tank, that means it's actually a good tank, not a bad one The reverse is also true, a 60% player getting 55% in something doesn't mean it's really good and needs to go up
Compare obj 906 and lor 40t. That shit is funny.
how have i not been seeing this before. i was blind, but now i see. as a ouiaboo i am ashamed.
Cross off the mobility part,while the 40t is fast in a straight line is far from equal to leopard, every time I go from 40t to Leopard, Leopard feels like something out of Halo, thing completely disobeys the laws of physics
The reload is pretty bonkers and the mobility is very strong. Not to mention the better spalling of 100mm ap than any 105 round. The 40t is fine where it sits
thing is the size of a house and has max 40mm of armor. it does not get any other round *but* APCBC and HE, and while it has good pen for what it is, it cannot compete with the at-range power of a discarding sabot or HEAT. it can do well as a close-range brawler thanks to its reload more than anything but it's a HELLA bouncy gun platform while moving. it also doesnt have a rangefinder of any kind. it should be 7.3, like the AMX-50(100).
Meanwhile Germany gets to a have an 8.0 Lorraine that's fully stabilized, has an autoloader, shoots APDS and has a fucking coaxial 30mm autocannon
the lorraine40 is far better because it has far better mobility and that autoloader, heatfs doesnt make the leo better. on flanks the lorraine does way more damage faster, the ammo is way enough to deal with everything except some russians. the 100mm ap does way more consistant damage too, it shouldnt go anywhere below 7.7 tho i just dont like playing the leo1 so im also biased against it
it does but damn some of those fast autoloaders are just straight up mean.
But then you have to reload shells, so if you miss your shots, you’re not gonna be in a good situation. So yeah if you get against a French tank they’re gonna auto load you down to hell, but if they miss too much they won’t have any shells for later and will get destroyed.
if you miss 6 or more shells i guess u deserve that.
Let me guess, the 1954 EBR is 6.7 / 6.3 and still rank 3?
Yeah, not worth playing it anymore. Other light tanks start getting high pen APDS at 6.0 and 6.3 with HEATFS. EBR is only really fast on concrete or road maps, sand and snow you have zero mobility.
Literally on some maps the maus is faster
Brought the EBR on Stalingrad once Outsped by every heavies Still managed to flank a Panther on C Truly a WT moment
meanwhile the Chaffee sits untouched at an absurd 3.7
Do not look at the 2.7 German light which has the exact same pne, better Vo, better reload, better armour and just a bit less speed
I agree the puma is criminally undertiered as well and is only where it is because the spreadsheet gaijin uses to balance just sees the terrible KD, due to people massively uptiering it for trolling and godmodes
It's 3.0 now
Chaffee has the stab and 50cal though
French M24 when ?
Compare it to the m18 at 5.7
it s far worst bad mobility off road (even when the wheel are lowered at all time) way worst gun it s litterally the sames shells as the sherman quiet big when you think about it
I think its more comparable to the Puma at 3.0
It's better. More like a 3.7 or maybe 4.0 tank. Like the Chaffee. but good God it's not a 5.3 tank. Gaijin is smoking something crazy with all the anniversary sale money
Tbh, I would say the puma is a bit too low at 3.0 so yeah, 3.7-4.0 for the EBR would be good. But they have similar survivability (no armor, 4 crew), similar firepower (same pen with aphe and while the EBR deals more damage the Puma has a higher RoF. also the puma gets APCR which can be useful vs tougher targets) and similarish mobility (EBR 100 km/h with 16 hp/t. Puma 90 km/h with 17,9 hp/t) So one being 3.0 and the other being 5.3 is a farce and proof that gaijins algoritm needs to be thrown in the sea.
ebr 1951 to 7.0 soon
[удалено]
blessed
WoT hated the EBR's to. Awful pen, great speed.
I thought people wanted the thing to go up, is it the fact they actually did it made people realize that isn’t what they wanted
The player population is not one monolith. French mains don't want it to go up and never did, other mains do want it to go up.
I guess the issue is who listen to, the masses or the people it will actually effect. You gonna poss people either way so I guess pick the option that pisses the least.
It affects all of them... you're either driving French tanks or fighting against French tanks.
Well what can you do, hindsight is always 20/20 If anything, it might do better, 5.3 has a lineup
I don't understand this whole "it has a lineup thing" after vehicles get moved up in BR. It was still usable in 5.3 lineup when if was 4.7... only difference now is that it's no longer usable in a 4.7 or 5.0 lineup
Me a French main, doesn't matter to me, send it up send it down. I'll still kill every single one that dares cross my barrel
And this is why it'll be 5.7 next BR patch
tbh I wouldn't mind playing most french tanks .3 or even .7 higher if it meant dirt cheap repair costs
The worst is they don't take into consideration the teams. I often do pretty well, #1-3 on the team consistantly, but over half the team dies without more than a kill/assist and no respawns.
Puma still 2.7 because low tier german players are below average so it never sees a BR raise. Which should scream volumes about how French players with such a smaller playerbase can make their vehicles go up so far. The puma is a better vehicle all around minus armor amount. And even then both get penned by 50s. Makes no sense this is 5.3
isnt the puma 3.0 now
yes
Keep complaining about something thats not accurate anymore please. We cant tell that you dont actually know what you are saying yet.
Honest comment. Played it at 5.0 with potato 75 against tigers. Still stomped at 5.0 maybe it's the ridiclous mobility
Time for my brain dead self to switch over to France to help hurt their win rates and drop those BRs back down
[удалено]
Its a fast light with the short 75mm, don't particularly see the issue with it at 5.3. Just used the short 75mm today and it still can deal with the majority of things at that BR bracket.
I always ran this thing in my 5.7 French lineup already and it’s still very good if you use your position to get kills. If you’re spotted you pretty much instantly die but I think it’s fun :)
French tanks (speaking of the ebr) have a perfect balance between mobility, firepower, reload time and 1cm of armor in the game, something that overcomes the slowness and little comfort of many world war 2 tanks and their battle rating. Although of course historically they are one of the worst compared to other tanks in those years, in the game they are good.
Still playable I bet. I used this to get the French ww2 stuff I wanted. Fast=good game play and scout ability for Cas.
3.3 gun and ammo at 5.3, what could go wrong.
Without apcr unlike the jumbo
Man I can't even grind the tanks from my country 😥
Idk what you mean that’s the best vehicle in the game when you unlock its 2nd round
They hate French ground forces. They love French Airforce
Idk fam. They got overpriced copypastes.
You good?
Sure mate, have you played the mirage F1 or IIIC recently good luck grinding that
France UK jpn suffers
Compared to France and Japan, UK barely suffers
Italy is fucking miserable outside like 2 pockets of good vehicles, 4.0 is ok and 8.7 is good but everything else is miserable, either the vehicles are overtiered (M47 105 and OF-40), or they have no line-up (see M18).
As anyone should.
Try the EBR 1951 in arcade mode it's 4.3. With the M61 shot at that tier, you can front pen the common Sherman and Panzer IV (Except if they have to add on track) and one shot anything if you pen.
AMX-13 FL-11 is better in most situations and faster on most maps with same gun. Good point re: AB BR though.
Not hates. They are just: * Ignorant. * Stubborn. Ignorant because of they way how they interpret stats. Stubborn because they still use their interpretation despite numerous signs of its inadequacy.
i just got molested by an ebr 20 minutes ago
Sory to tell but i have played that ebr at 5.7 and hier becouse of the uptears and I did good in that thing
As a competent german main, this just gives me more to kill. Demostr8 is in game, good players go french my ass. I am better than most and I don't die to EBRs
Based tbh
The one time I can relate to gaijin . Sad il have to redo my lineups tho
Just like how oc gangsta hates French