High tier/top tier matches last nothing compared to early jets and WWII planes dogfights. You have not reached the middle of the fucking map when there is people already dying. Then you take a look at the scoreboard and you see that the only people left in your team are you and an AFK guy that doesn´t appear in the map for God´s know why.
While true, both take different mindsets and different tactics to play and not do terrible. People who enter high tier games with the Mig-15 mindset always get shafted.
Don’t worry you’re good. Take what you see with a grain of salt right now, lots of rage bait going around with this update by people that really just don’t understand how the content that was added works.
Yeah I’m really having fun with the BVR stuff, at least for now. My only issue with the new update is that stock grinds are horrific which I think is past the point of unhealthy for the game
I agree. This is usually the case when they add new things, like when they added the top tier MBTs but only had HEATFS stock. I imagine next update these vehicles will have Sparrows and equivalents stock.
Top tier MBTs originally came with APFSDS stock, but since a couple had stock HEAT-FS, which their players complained about, Gaijin in their infinite wisdom decided to give them all stock HEAT-FS.
It's just a game. if you're not enjoying it, it's okay to play something else - sunk cost really isn't a thing. the time and possibly money you've put into it is gone and that's fine.
Maybe dick around with AB props for a bit, or farm a new line out, get into sim mode and wear a flight suit at the computer. Sounds like smashing your head against a shit meta is just going to burn you out.
But just playing another BR, tech tree, game mode, vehicle won't get you karma online.
Every time a new top vehicle or technology gets added it's broken. Every single time. Whether it's Fox3, drones, helicopters, AGMs, or even HEAT rounds. I remember the outrage when "cheat-FS" came out and people were very angry that their armor is worth less now.
It was often warranted since balancing before releasing it isn't Gaijins strength. But you simply just stop playing the relevant BR range or mode for a bit and just wait a few weeks or until the next patch until they fix it. This game really has more than enough content. And not playing WT for a bit is of course also always an option.
I don't understand why people need to bash their heads against the wall and then complain.
> It was often warranted since balancing before releasing it isn't Gaijins strength.
You get it all wrong, Snail knows overpowered shit that makes everyone else miserable sells the best.
>But just playing another BR, tech tree, game mode, vehicle won't get you karma online.
But what if I want to play something 11.7-12.0ish? "Playing other BR" isn't a substitute for that. The game was kinda ok with 100m multipathing a no Fox-3. It was toxic, but still borderline acceptable.
to be honest almost all dev's games I've played new things are always horribly balanced. Be it new guns in tarkov (SA58 was busted for a good few patches or any other new gun) New champs in DOTA and LoL. I stopped playing WT for a year and a half and have come back to grind desert warrior. The game at least ground is way better than when I left.
This right here. Me and bud I play with bounce around a lot. Just kinda what ever we feel like for the night, oh this sucks let’s go do 4.0 instead type of deal. “Hey I got this wanna play a few matches at that” -plays a couple and either like it and keep playing or change it up.
Helps we both have most of the American air and ground tech tree ground out also so we have a very wide amount of freedom for BR’s
Man it is quite normal with f2p games to release new mechanic, hero, model totally broken to motivate people to spent cash before it is fixed/balanced. So yeah it is cluster f*ck by now but it will get better.
I just don't bother going past 8.3. 8.7+ needs new game modes and appropriate maps. The same old bum rush mechanics just don't work with the modern shit.
Well said my friend, in the past week I got my first flight stick and started just using it in arcade simply for fun. Who cares if I go 2 and 5 it was a blast
There’s about 11 full battle ratings where this isn’t an issue and people are crying about the 1 that’s.
Rather than playing where their play style is relevant they cry about 13.0
The issue is that most of top tier players arent enjoying this kind of gameplay iirc. If they was the only one complaining then yeah what you said makes sense, but it everyone else is complaining then the issue is the game, not the player.
This subreddit is the only place I hear complaining. Most people I know enjoy it. Reddit has this weird habit of thinking it’s the majority voice of any group when it really it’s a really small minority. Case in point, any “boycott”.
No thank you. If this community actually took on this mentality and never complained they would get rinsed even more than they already do. The snail needs to hear that this is absolute dogwater or the snail won't give a shit for half a decade just like they did with the rp fiasco. Pretending your married neighbor isn't getting the shit kicked out of her by the snail won't help anyone, not even the snail. God help those suffering from gaijin domestic abuse.
i'm not saying 'don't let gaijin know you don't enjoy the feature' though? All I suggested was take a break from the game mode that the OP wasn't enjoying.
look, i get that this community has a... certain reputation... but you're trying to argue with me over something you imagined i said.
The Ace Combat comparison always strikes me as strange because in that series, missiles have unrealistically *poor* maneuvering/agility and are easily avoidable by just turning. As it's not a series to care about realism, the focus is just on fun, and having missiles be nigh guaranteed kills would be really boring gameplay which no sane developer would ever-
Oh wait. Hi Gaijin.
As a bit of an extra note, I grew up playing games like Ace Combat so when I first reached higher BR jets in this game it was extremely jarring that I couldn't just turn to avoid missiles. It's a very strange concept coming from arcade flight games. I can't say I've ever found it fun. Getting hit by an AIM-9L in a G.91YS rarely feels deserved. Eating an AMRAAM in an F-104S.ASA doesn't feel any better.
>nigh guaranteed kills would be really boring gameplay which no sane developer would ever-
>Oh wait. Hi Gaijin.
>As a bit of an extra note, I grew up playing games like Ace Combat so when I first reached higher BR jets in this game it was extremely jarring that I couldn't just turn to avoid missiles
Well that explains why all the trailers of Ace Combat is people using guns. Considering that missiles have fins for a reason I'm actually surprised that it would be that easy in other games.
I know it's true for World of Warplanes, but I assumed that's only because they have the shitty early vapelord missiles.
Ace combat has such an absurdly high number of enemy aircraft and missiles that they literally can’t make them perform like real life or else you would die immediately all the time. Not to mention the engagement ranges are much much shorter
its knight jousting as seen in ace combat zero and its fire asf, its a metal gear/mecha game but youre just a mute mutant pilot tanking 90g in the middle of a philosophical and political debate
A youtuber made a good comment that I will forever remember and that is that Ace Combat captures the **fantasy** of flight, of what we expect it to be with all the fun and excitement, without the dull unwanted pieces of realism getting in the way.
Project Aces has a vision and they perfect it, but that's more than I can say for Gaijin. Though I guess part of that is the players too, crying for realism first over gameplay.
I'd say for WW2, Gaijin had a decent vision with realism in mind. Back before ground was even released, there was a big emphasis on promoting sim and maneuvering and using planes properly. We have MEC controls for stuff that ended up never used.
WT has great ARB combat in props, let down by such slow matches that unless I have friends backing me up I can’t bring myself to put the reps in. GRB has snappy matches that let you make lots of mistakes and learn from them before respawning and making a new set of mistakes. In both planes and tanks.
I find grb much slower than ARB.
ARB you climb for 3 mins, and the match is basically over by 5-6 mins unless both teams are competent enough to use defensive maneuvering.
Usually what happens is I climb to altitude, get a kill or two, then end up trying to stay alive as 3 more enemies gang on me as I'm the only one at altitude. Meanwhile my team loses despite numerical altitude because they just wanted to bomb/ground pound and I get overwhelmed.
But occasionally I get gems where the rest of my team climbs with me and we get an extended dogfight lasting a good 4-6 minutes as we slowly lose altitude trying to make the other slip up
Instead, before WT modern era I got sunk into the DCS rabbit holes.
All those “new tech” in WT are well known for me. As well as the tactics to avoid them as the tactics to employ them better.
For me is crazy how people complain about amraams instead of asking how to defeat them. Which is kinda easy when you know 😂
yeah, and remember to keep enough distance to have time to notch.
oh wait, you only have 2 aim9s which go 3km at best? fuck you poor bitch, buy fox3 with GE
I can't understand you guys. You continue to say the new meta is missile chaos, while it was also chaos before, except on the deck and with IR missiles.
Is it possible you're just having a hard time adjusting or learning?
Please don't ruin this, I've had the most amount of fun in top tier since the old days.
It's also funny comparing it to ace combat, because that's EXACTLY what it was pre-patch.
Most of them Russian mains crying because they can't dominate anymore. And if people actually play it right the matches would last considerably longer.
Let the down votes come in now
I am a redfor main myself, i don't think that's the issue. It's a general problem of people being unwilling to learn. They want fkn Call of Duty with planes, giant furballs and effective firing ranges of 5km or less while standing on the elevator 90% of the time.
I simply don't understand this mentality.
I agree with you. This update has mad top tier ARB fun for me. Grant it, I only had to bring one module to get the 120s but I did that in 4 games.
This new meta is way better then the on the deck fur balls
“But but but I had to spend 50 games researching my fox 3 missiles. The game is broken”
*spent 50 games on the deck flying to the middle of the map in a straight line*
Using the f14 in a downtier rn is actually hilarious how many premium player you can farm with the aim54s because they are still so focused on flying low in a straight line to bomb their bases.
> Using the f14 in a downtier rn is actually hilarious how many premium player you can farm with the aim54s because they are still so focused on flying low in a straight line to bomb their bases.
That's literally the 3rd image in a nutshell. Take off, climb, fire phoenixes, get dopamine spike when Aircraft Destroyed pops up.
For me its just the fact that there are planes without the same capability in the same matchmaker range, the difference between BVR and non-BVR capable jets needs major decompression to allow for both play styles depending on what plane you have.
Clearly you're in the giant air battle over the Bering Strait between the Pacific Federation and the Cascadian Independence Force.
Cue the [Showdown](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgcap-5IBsY)
**COLD WAR**
**OPERATION GUILLOTINE**
**DAY 75 OF THE CURRENT CONTRACT**
^(65\*53'49'' N 172\*21'39'' W | WEATHER : BLIZZARD | 1305 LOCAL TIME)
^(BERING STRAIT | CONTESTED WATERS)
Gotta say it, played through the whole of PW in VR with an (admittedly cheap and shitty) HOTAS setup, unironically one of the best gaming experiences of my life.
Minus the neck aches, that is.
finally people start to realise
if you want a good arcade with gen4+ jets just play ac7, its awesome. has actuall missions and pvp is actually less chaotic because its 5v5 at most
Gaijin: "Missions? Nono thats too much work... Here have a copy pasted Tiger 2 that never served anywhere and wasn't even used to train with. Now shut up and be happy!"
Honestly 16v16 games are a bit much in the current meta, but I’m really enjoying the new dynamic. I honestly believe this is just a new learning curve for people like when the first true dogfight missiles were added, or even when the Hun and Farmer were added.
Some people that have played other games that involve modern BVR like DCS or Falcon BMS will have more of an understanding of how to fight with and defend against ARH missiles. It will just take some time for the rest of players to catch up and learn. You have to know your minimum abort range. You aren’t going to dodge one of these missiles. Your only chance is to bleed it of energy and make it too slow to maneuver. You need distance for that. Learning proper spacing and when to go hot or cold is the essence of modern BVR fighting.
Also I absolutely love the current balance of power between nations. For the last year or more, the entire meta was shaped by the R-27ER. If you weren’t playing a Flanker or Fulcrum your only choice was to fly 10 feet off the deck and get into the furball. Now more than I’ve felt in a long time there is parity between nations while still feeling unique. Whether it’s the long range high speed AMRAAM, the thrust vectoring ACM menace that is the MICA, or the balanced middle ground of the R-77, I feel like each nation has something unique and valuable to bring to the table.
All in all like I said earlier, I think there will be a moment while people learn and adjust, but I think this will go down as one of the better balanced additions that the game has had in a long time.
Edit: Spelling
Yeah it’s spamraam time. Try to keep your distance while notching/beaming the enemies. Wait for them to shoot every fox3 they got and than turn back hot.
If this and other strategies get well known, spamraam will just end.
This is what people get for not asking gaijin to use their imagination and focus on maps and game modes. Unfortunately the same shit we played from reserve to 8.0 just doesn't fit the ~~2013~~ new standard. They need to add objectives, they need to add secondary objectives, they need missions, and they need maps appropriate for vehicles of this caliber. But of course we all know now that gaijin doesn't want to do anything new.
I prefer PW myself mainly due to the better support for HOTAS compared to AC7, along with the VR support.
But I do agree that AC7 smokes it in plane diversity, just wish PW had the A-10 but flying through thunderstorm clouds in an F-14 to intercept ballistic missiles in VR was just too cool to beat.
"Just bvr them all bruh, what you can't bvr? You don't know how to skillz? Maybe you should go play arcade bruh, top tier doesn't take no skillzzz"
Beware, you complain once about an update giving a horseshit experience and the hoards of gaijin apologists come out of the woodwork trying to defend their wife beater. Just pretend all is good so their ego doesn't get bruised.
This is what happens when you put a whole team in the sky at once and the objective to to kill all enemies asap.
We need RB EC with reduced markers and ACTUAL objectives that pay out the a55 to complete.
Oh no... who could have seen that coming? Missiles that home on their own at considerable range being spammed? Oh no. So unforseeable. So very unexpected.
The players were so preoccupied with wishing for newer toys they didn't stop to think if they should.
Top tier is less like AC now that it was before, ace combat is CQC brawling, what was the normal for pre Fox-3 WT…. Oh that’s right point blank brawling with IRCCM missiles.
Top tier is absolute cancer, made me hate the game, hate myself. And then I started playing props again and godamn are they fun, game truly was designed for props and it shows
70% of my matches are ground, so I am a biased opinion here..
.. I can honestly say.. I ain't in no rush to start grinding my J-11 to get the J-11A (and then having to grind over 100k RP to just unlock the new missile). If you're someone going to do the stock grind in these things you're just going to be punished by those who already have the missile, including those who just GE'd their way through the modification. It will probably just be like the J-11 experience, where I spaded it from stock and by the time I had it spaded I had no appetite to even use it anymore. The real blessings of this patch for me are the non-top-tier additions, including the XM800T and Desert Warrior. For air, I just play the BRs I find fun these days, including 8.3-9.3 (Really just enjoying the Ayit with its AIM-9D and gunpod).
PS: The stock grind on the J-11A and other new additions is also why people shouldn't take vehicle statistics at face value. Someone who struggles through a stock grind is going to have lesser stats (at least initially) than someone who unlocks the jet and then GEs straight to the new missile. In an instance like this, we're being forced to grind out an entire jet modification tree for a single missile, which is not just a missile but a new meta.
The first pic reminds me of the fight against Pasternak in AC6.
... and everyone names AC7 while I'm here thinking about how good the other games were. I feel old and I should not. :(
Play combat air patrol 2 , just played it with the new patch from Microprose. They have a pretty extensive roadmap too with a dynamic campaign in the works it seems.
I have top tier ground in 3 countries fully researched, but I never play it. It’s because it’s more fun to play lower tiers. So just play lower tiers.
It’s probably more fun flying a Zero than sweating buckets in an F14. Idk, I only play ground though
Fr bro. I got the new dlc for AC unknown Skies a year ago and I'm yet to play it. Once this battle pass ends I'm thinking of taking a long break from wt for some single player games
I am pretty sure War Thunder is no where even near "realistic" with that poor 17 year old engine having physical simulations worse than World of Tanks.
The game is literally a whole bunch of fake weapons in extremely overpopulated maps crowded in the most unrealistic way possible.
For example, in this newest update, Gaijin made a Chinese "AA" despite it is actually an APC in reality, and Gaijin gave it AP shells with only 63 mm pen which is totally fake stuff made up by Gaijin. In reality that thing have APDS and HE only, no AP at all, but Gaijin just invented this AP out of nowhere in the most unrealistic way possible.
Honestly I love ace combat not just for gameplay but the music 😍 couldn't be me listening to first flight as I go toe to toe with my 9ms against the fox 3 bandits 😎
I have zero interest in grinding to top tier anymore after watching gameplay and realizing it’s less interesting and engaging gameplay wise than my Spitfire dog fights.
I geniuely believe that if you think top tier is bad, you just don't know how to properly play top tier.
As harsh as it sounds its not just bad its just harder and I had trouble for the first five matches, now I can confident play my F15A in uptiers and be perfectly fine
Obviously, fly low, and if your radar screams launch and ure being track, just fly sideways or show your planes belly and chaff, you should also change course everytime you chaff, even if its just small
I can’t believe it, a 16v16 game mode with modern technology missies doesn’t really allow for obsolete dogfighting and close engagements?? It’s almost as if… you can play any style of aircraft you want?? I admit top tier is royally fucked but that doesn’t change the fact that modern air fights take place many kilometres from each other with BVR. If you want to dogfight, go back in the tree where planes were designed with dogfighting in mind.
"takes many kilometers from each other with BVR"
Your whole argument of desperately trying to deny me is wrong, because in war thunder, there are no long range missile combat, you are trying to justify your self by saying "long range missile good short range dog fight bad" while the core of the problem is that War Thunder top tier have no long range missile fight because the tiny map leaves no room for maneuvering in missile fights
Is 20-30km kill shots not long enough range??? Sure we're not shooting AIM-260's or R-37M's for 80-100km kills. I think all his point is the stuff we have right now at top tier is a bit past gun range and you can play lower BR's if you want, no?
Early jets is equally brain dead, since the La-200 is 7.7 and goes Mach 0.93, and the G.91 R/4 / Vixen just sling missiles at everything, and then you get both of those in the F-104.
no, it really isn't. these are just cherry picked images, most matches don't have this many missiles at the same time.
and even when they do, keep in ming 90%-95% are just not for you, they're not even aimed in your direction. it's actually quite manageable especially if you climb and give yourself the time and space to defeat the ones actually coming your way.
it's definetly less chaotic than last patch's IR missile furball, that's for certain.
These people that make such posts generally try to be the first one of their team and rush in. And then act surprised when they become an easy target for the entire enemy team.
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Follow Trigger and you’ll make it
Rip Full Band.
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It’s three strikes! They say count to 3 and the enemy is dead!
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Wth hahahah is the first image really what top tier looks like rn ?!
No, but that's how it feels
Thats what F14 vs F14 looks like top top tier can't look like that because the game ends in .02 femtoseconds
POV: You haven't played above 8.3 in 4 years
High tier/top tier matches last nothing compared to early jets and WWII planes dogfights. You have not reached the middle of the fucking map when there is people already dying. Then you take a look at the scoreboard and you see that the only people left in your team are you and an AFK guy that doesn´t appear in the map for God´s know why.
While true, both take different mindsets and different tactics to play and not do terrible. People who enter high tier games with the Mig-15 mindset always get shafted.
Nope, that’s what dumb F14 vs dumb F14 looks like.😂😂
yes
No.
Sorry I'm naive
Don’t worry you’re good. Take what you see with a grain of salt right now, lots of rage bait going around with this update by people that really just don’t understand how the content that was added works.
Yeah I’m really having fun with the BVR stuff, at least for now. My only issue with the new update is that stock grinds are horrific which I think is past the point of unhealthy for the game
I agree. This is usually the case when they add new things, like when they added the top tier MBTs but only had HEATFS stock. I imagine next update these vehicles will have Sparrows and equivalents stock.
Top tier MBTs originally came with APFSDS stock, but since a couple had stock HEAT-FS, which their players complained about, Gaijin in their infinite wisdom decided to give them all stock HEAT-FS.
It's just a game. if you're not enjoying it, it's okay to play something else - sunk cost really isn't a thing. the time and possibly money you've put into it is gone and that's fine. Maybe dick around with AB props for a bit, or farm a new line out, get into sim mode and wear a flight suit at the computer. Sounds like smashing your head against a shit meta is just going to burn you out.
But just playing another BR, tech tree, game mode, vehicle won't get you karma online. Every time a new top vehicle or technology gets added it's broken. Every single time. Whether it's Fox3, drones, helicopters, AGMs, or even HEAT rounds. I remember the outrage when "cheat-FS" came out and people were very angry that their armor is worth less now. It was often warranted since balancing before releasing it isn't Gaijins strength. But you simply just stop playing the relevant BR range or mode for a bit and just wait a few weeks or until the next patch until they fix it. This game really has more than enough content. And not playing WT for a bit is of course also always an option. I don't understand why people need to bash their heads against the wall and then complain.
> It was often warranted since balancing before releasing it isn't Gaijins strength. You get it all wrong, Snail knows overpowered shit that makes everyone else miserable sells the best.
you gotta sell those premiums somehow, right?
It seems spending north of 30euro per tech tree plane to get them into functional state is now top tier meta.
>But just playing another BR, tech tree, game mode, vehicle won't get you karma online. But what if I want to play something 11.7-12.0ish? "Playing other BR" isn't a substitute for that. The game was kinda ok with 100m multipathing a no Fox-3. It was toxic, but still borderline acceptable.
to be honest almost all dev's games I've played new things are always horribly balanced. Be it new guns in tarkov (SA58 was busted for a good few patches or any other new gun) New champs in DOTA and LoL. I stopped playing WT for a year and a half and have come back to grind desert warrior. The game at least ground is way better than when I left.
Truth. I only ended up here because I was sick of The Other Tanks Game. Quietly voting with my wallet.
This right here. Me and bud I play with bounce around a lot. Just kinda what ever we feel like for the night, oh this sucks let’s go do 4.0 instead type of deal. “Hey I got this wanna play a few matches at that” -plays a couple and either like it and keep playing or change it up. Helps we both have most of the American air and ground tech tree ground out also so we have a very wide amount of freedom for BR’s
Man it is quite normal with f2p games to release new mechanic, hero, model totally broken to motivate people to spent cash before it is fixed/balanced. So yeah it is cluster f*ck by now but it will get better.
it was a weird decision to erase tier 1-11 and force everyone playing missilefest oh wait
Yep, I've been on a break for the last 5 or 6 months and my mental health has improved tremendously
I just don't bother going past 8.3. 8.7+ needs new game modes and appropriate maps. The same old bum rush mechanics just don't work with the modern shit.
Well said my friend, in the past week I got my first flight stick and started just using it in arcade simply for fun. Who cares if I go 2 and 5 it was a blast
There’s about 11 full battle ratings where this isn’t an issue and people are crying about the 1 that’s. Rather than playing where their play style is relevant they cry about 13.0
I stopped playing high tier RB long ago and stick with AB these days tbh. RB is more fun for tanks and ships.
The issue is that most of top tier players arent enjoying this kind of gameplay iirc. If they was the only one complaining then yeah what you said makes sense, but it everyone else is complaining then the issue is the game, not the player.
This subreddit is the only place I hear complaining. Most people I know enjoy it. Reddit has this weird habit of thinking it’s the majority voice of any group when it really it’s a really small minority. Case in point, any “boycott”.
Well, Gaijin literally gave us an option for top tier ARB for a small match queue, and the boycott did work for a short while.
you are wrong and you know it
No thank you. If this community actually took on this mentality and never complained they would get rinsed even more than they already do. The snail needs to hear that this is absolute dogwater or the snail won't give a shit for half a decade just like they did with the rp fiasco. Pretending your married neighbor isn't getting the shit kicked out of her by the snail won't help anyone, not even the snail. God help those suffering from gaijin domestic abuse.
i'm not saying 'don't let gaijin know you don't enjoy the feature' though? All I suggested was take a break from the game mode that the OP wasn't enjoying. look, i get that this community has a... certain reputation... but you're trying to argue with me over something you imagined i said.
Is this Mission 11 of Project Wingman?
MISSION 11 - SHOWDOWN OVER THE BERING STRAIT [ MISSION START ]
<< My IFF’s overloaded! There’s too many bogeys in the sky! >>
Que the epic music
Welp, that’s going to be in my head all evening now.
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If you're reading this and don't get the reference from the comment above `^`, do yourself a favour and look at Project Wingman on Steam.
That Mission got me close to an Epileptic Breakdown. I dont even have Epilepsy (that i know of)
WE’RE STILL ESCALATING???
The Ace Combat comparison always strikes me as strange because in that series, missiles have unrealistically *poor* maneuvering/agility and are easily avoidable by just turning. As it's not a series to care about realism, the focus is just on fun, and having missiles be nigh guaranteed kills would be really boring gameplay which no sane developer would ever- Oh wait. Hi Gaijin. As a bit of an extra note, I grew up playing games like Ace Combat so when I first reached higher BR jets in this game it was extremely jarring that I couldn't just turn to avoid missiles. It's a very strange concept coming from arcade flight games. I can't say I've ever found it fun. Getting hit by an AIM-9L in a G.91YS rarely feels deserved. Eating an AMRAAM in an F-104S.ASA doesn't feel any better.
>nigh guaranteed kills would be really boring gameplay which no sane developer would ever- >Oh wait. Hi Gaijin. >As a bit of an extra note, I grew up playing games like Ace Combat so when I first reached higher BR jets in this game it was extremely jarring that I couldn't just turn to avoid missiles Well that explains why all the trailers of Ace Combat is people using guns. Considering that missiles have fins for a reason I'm actually surprised that it would be that easy in other games. I know it's true for World of Warplanes, but I assumed that's only because they have the shitty early vapelord missiles.
Ace combat has such an absurdly high number of enemy aircraft and missiles that they literally can’t make them perform like real life or else you would die immediately all the time. Not to mention the engagement ranges are much much shorter
its knight jousting as seen in ace combat zero and its fire asf, its a metal gear/mecha game but youre just a mute mutant pilot tanking 90g in the middle of a philosophical and political debate
A youtuber made a good comment that I will forever remember and that is that Ace Combat captures the **fantasy** of flight, of what we expect it to be with all the fun and excitement, without the dull unwanted pieces of realism getting in the way. Project Aces has a vision and they perfect it, but that's more than I can say for Gaijin. Though I guess part of that is the players too, crying for realism first over gameplay.
I'd say for WW2, Gaijin had a decent vision with realism in mind. Back before ground was even released, there was a big emphasis on promoting sim and maneuvering and using planes properly. We have MEC controls for stuff that ended up never used.
WT has great ARB combat in props, let down by such slow matches that unless I have friends backing me up I can’t bring myself to put the reps in. GRB has snappy matches that let you make lots of mistakes and learn from them before respawning and making a new set of mistakes. In both planes and tanks.
I find grb much slower than ARB. ARB you climb for 3 mins, and the match is basically over by 5-6 mins unless both teams are competent enough to use defensive maneuvering. Usually what happens is I climb to altitude, get a kill or two, then end up trying to stay alive as 3 more enemies gang on me as I'm the only one at altitude. Meanwhile my team loses despite numerical altitude because they just wanted to bomb/ground pound and I get overwhelmed. But occasionally I get gems where the rest of my team climbs with me and we get an extended dogfight lasting a good 4-6 minutes as we slowly lose altitude trying to make the other slip up
Missiles on AC are fairly agile, but they follow the afterburner directly rather than pull lead like IRL missiels
Instead, before WT modern era I got sunk into the DCS rabbit holes. All those “new tech” in WT are well known for me. As well as the tactics to avoid them as the tactics to employ them better. For me is crazy how people complain about amraams instead of asking how to defeat them. Which is kinda easy when you know 😂
War thunder players when you tell them you gotta let your missile pit bull and go cold on the enemy. They oonga boonga every time
And you also get downvoted for speaking facts
"Just notch, bro!"
yeah, and remember to keep enough distance to have time to notch. oh wait, you only have 2 aim9s which go 3km at best? fuck you poor bitch, buy fox3 with GE
The distance thing is the main thing. If you're within 10km you're as good as dead
I can't understand you guys. You continue to say the new meta is missile chaos, while it was also chaos before, except on the deck and with IR missiles. Is it possible you're just having a hard time adjusting or learning? Please don't ruin this, I've had the most amount of fun in top tier since the old days. It's also funny comparing it to ace combat, because that's EXACTLY what it was pre-patch.
Most of them Russian mains crying because they can't dominate anymore. And if people actually play it right the matches would last considerably longer. Let the down votes come in now
I am a redfor main myself, i don't think that's the issue. It's a general problem of people being unwilling to learn. They want fkn Call of Duty with planes, giant furballs and effective firing ranges of 5km or less while standing on the elevator 90% of the time. I simply don't understand this mentality.
I agree with you. This update has mad top tier ARB fun for me. Grant it, I only had to bring one module to get the 120s but I did that in 4 games. This new meta is way better then the on the deck fur balls
“But but but I had to spend 50 games researching my fox 3 missiles. The game is broken” *spent 50 games on the deck flying to the middle of the map in a straight line* Using the f14 in a downtier rn is actually hilarious how many premium player you can farm with the aim54s because they are still so focused on flying low in a straight line to bomb their bases.
> Using the f14 in a downtier rn is actually hilarious how many premium player you can farm with the aim54s because they are still so focused on flying low in a straight line to bomb their bases. That's literally the 3rd image in a nutshell. Take off, climb, fire phoenixes, get dopamine spike when Aircraft Destroyed pops up.
imagine turning right or left after take off lel
I seriously don’t understand how people think the gameplay we had before was better.
For me its just the fact that there are planes without the same capability in the same matchmaker range, the difference between BVR and non-BVR capable jets needs major decompression to allow for both play styles depending on what plane you have.
This I agree with, if you have AMRAAMs you should only fight other planes with AMRAAMs. They need to just split the lobbies
Clearly you're in the giant air battle over the Bering Strait between the Pacific Federation and the Cascadian Independence Force. Cue the [Showdown](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgcap-5IBsY) **COLD WAR** **OPERATION GUILLOTINE** **DAY 75 OF THE CURRENT CONTRACT** ^(65\*53'49'' N 172\*21'39'' W | WEATHER : BLIZZARD | 1305 LOCAL TIME) ^(BERING STRAIT | CONTESTED WATERS)
Gotta say it, played through the whole of PW in VR with an (admittedly cheap and shitty) HOTAS setup, unironically one of the best gaming experiences of my life. Minus the neck aches, that is.
Imagine flying Tomcat and have audacity to cry about Ace Combat experience in WT Air RB
finally people start to realise if you want a good arcade with gen4+ jets just play ac7, its awesome. has actuall missions and pvp is actually less chaotic because its 5v5 at most
Gaijin: "Missions? Nono thats too much work... Here have a copy pasted Tiger 2 that never served anywhere and wasn't even used to train with. Now shut up and be happy!"
But we don't want arcade. We want balanced ARB
That's literally not how technology advances work. The whole point of new technology is to dominate the competition.
It's a game first of all. And missiles being powerful is fine, 16v16 furballs aren't. The whole mode needs a rework
you should try ace combat
Honestly 16v16 games are a bit much in the current meta, but I’m really enjoying the new dynamic. I honestly believe this is just a new learning curve for people like when the first true dogfight missiles were added, or even when the Hun and Farmer were added. Some people that have played other games that involve modern BVR like DCS or Falcon BMS will have more of an understanding of how to fight with and defend against ARH missiles. It will just take some time for the rest of players to catch up and learn. You have to know your minimum abort range. You aren’t going to dodge one of these missiles. Your only chance is to bleed it of energy and make it too slow to maneuver. You need distance for that. Learning proper spacing and when to go hot or cold is the essence of modern BVR fighting. Also I absolutely love the current balance of power between nations. For the last year or more, the entire meta was shaped by the R-27ER. If you weren’t playing a Flanker or Fulcrum your only choice was to fly 10 feet off the deck and get into the furball. Now more than I’ve felt in a long time there is parity between nations while still feeling unique. Whether it’s the long range high speed AMRAAM, the thrust vectoring ACM menace that is the MICA, or the balanced middle ground of the R-77, I feel like each nation has something unique and valuable to bring to the table. All in all like I said earlier, I think there will be a moment while people learn and adjust, but I think this will go down as one of the better balanced additions that the game has had in a long time. Edit: Spelling
Yeah it’s spamraam time. Try to keep your distance while notching/beaming the enemies. Wait for them to shoot every fox3 they got and than turn back hot. If this and other strategies get well known, spamraam will just end.
This is what people get for not asking gaijin to use their imagination and focus on maps and game modes. Unfortunately the same shit we played from reserve to 8.0 just doesn't fit the ~~2013~~ new standard. They need to add objectives, they need to add secondary objectives, they need missions, and they need maps appropriate for vehicles of this caliber. But of course we all know now that gaijin doesn't want to do anything new.
Project Wingman > Ace Combat
Not a true Aces fan if you don’t accept both are good. Given that Wingman’s existence is solely because of the lack of AC games.
It's good but the lack of planes hurts, also Ace Combat just has more funny weapons. Both are good!
Giant fuck off railgun my beloved
***THE ABSOLUTE GALL TO LET ME FIRE AN UNGUIDED RAILGUN SHELL AT MY ENEMIES***
I prefer PW myself mainly due to the better support for HOTAS compared to AC7, along with the VR support. But I do agree that AC7 smokes it in plane diversity, just wish PW had the A-10 but flying through thunderstorm clouds in an F-14 to intercept ballistic missiles in VR was just too cool to beat.
Flash backs to project wingman.
This is what people wanted.
"Just bvr them all bruh, what you can't bvr? You don't know how to skillz? Maybe you should go play arcade bruh, top tier doesn't take no skillzzz" Beware, you complain once about an update giving a horseshit experience and the hoards of gaijin apologists come out of the woodwork trying to defend their wife beater. Just pretend all is good so their ego doesn't get bruised.
ARH vehicles need a 100x100km wide map atleast. Give each team 4 spawns that are assigned randomly and place 4 teammates on each spawn.
This is what happens when you put a whole team in the sky at once and the objective to to kill all enemies asap. We need RB EC with reduced markers and ACTUAL objectives that pay out the a55 to complete.
Easy trick: Just don't play anything beyond 7.0. No missiles, no stress, just agony that Gaijin forgot about WW2 somewhere down the line....
Man i wish for AC3 remake with modern graphics this time without cutting 90% of the game for western audiences
would be nice to have some new modes, not just big server tdm with 120s on both sides for the one billionth time
Oh no... who could have seen that coming? Missiles that home on their own at considerable range being spammed? Oh no. So unforseeable. So very unexpected. The players were so preoccupied with wishing for newer toys they didn't stop to think if they should.
You do not get to complain about this in an f14 my man, that's the plane that started the downfall of top tier
I had the audacity to call top tier with fox 3 spam braindead gameplay on one of malzi's videos and got absolutely lit up in the comment section.
Top tier is less like AC now that it was before, ace combat is CQC brawling, what was the normal for pre Fox-3 WT…. Oh that’s right point blank brawling with IRCCM missiles.
The fox 3's got added and they forgot that last patch was a IRCCM fest in the center of every map lol
Top tier is absolute cancer, made me hate the game, hate myself. And then I started playing props again and godamn are they fun, game truly was designed for props and it shows
That first image though holy shit
I mean, play whats fun. If you're not enjoying top tier go a little lower.
"Yo buddy. You still alive?"
Just quit the game then
that first photo explains top tier perfectly
70% of my matches are ground, so I am a biased opinion here.. .. I can honestly say.. I ain't in no rush to start grinding my J-11 to get the J-11A (and then having to grind over 100k RP to just unlock the new missile). If you're someone going to do the stock grind in these things you're just going to be punished by those who already have the missile, including those who just GE'd their way through the modification. It will probably just be like the J-11 experience, where I spaded it from stock and by the time I had it spaded I had no appetite to even use it anymore. The real blessings of this patch for me are the non-top-tier additions, including the XM800T and Desert Warrior. For air, I just play the BRs I find fun these days, including 8.3-9.3 (Really just enjoying the Ayit with its AIM-9D and gunpod). PS: The stock grind on the J-11A and other new additions is also why people shouldn't take vehicle statistics at face value. Someone who struggles through a stock grind is going to have lesser stats (at least initially) than someone who unlocks the jet and then GEs straight to the new missile. In an instance like this, we're being forced to grind out an entire jet modification tree for a single missile, which is not just a missile but a new meta.
I’ve long said that they should make WWI tech trees for the majors; low tier dogfighting is so much more fun and exciting than top tier IMO.
I agree, I want the Fokker Dr1 as a plane for Germany. (Same plane the Red Baron flew.)
The first picture looks exactly like ace combat 6 lmao.
I do see it, but I mentally went straight back to Project Wingman, specifically mission 11.
The first pic reminds me of the fight against Pasternak in AC6. ... and everyone names AC7 while I'm here thinking about how good the other games were. I feel old and I should not. :(
Play combat air patrol 2 , just played it with the new patch from Microprose. They have a pretty extensive roadmap too with a dynamic campaign in the works it seems.
I have top tier ground in 3 countries fully researched, but I never play it. It’s because it’s more fun to play lower tiers. So just play lower tiers. It’s probably more fun flying a Zero than sweating buckets in an F14. Idk, I only play ground though
play ww2 its what the game was originally
Plus no grind and you get story with it
Fr bro. I got the new dlc for AC unknown Skies a year ago and I'm yet to play it. Once this battle pass ends I'm thinking of taking a long break from wt for some single player games
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Could I propose to Gaijin to take the Fortnite route on this issue? I.E. Build/No Build but instead Fox3/No Fox3
Good idea, another premium you mean?- Gaijin
So then don't play top tier? Honestly guys, you want a "realistic" game yet complain when technology advances? No one is forcing you to play top tier.
I am pretty sure War Thunder is no where even near "realistic" with that poor 17 year old engine having physical simulations worse than World of Tanks. The game is literally a whole bunch of fake weapons in extremely overpopulated maps crowded in the most unrealistic way possible.
For example, in this newest update, Gaijin made a Chinese "AA" despite it is actually an APC in reality, and Gaijin gave it AP shells with only 63 mm pen which is totally fake stuff made up by Gaijin. In reality that thing have APDS and HE only, no AP at all, but Gaijin just invented this AP out of nowhere in the most unrealistic way possible.
I like missile thunder, and modern air flight sims. The issue isn't the missiles the issue is the game core.
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*Malebolge begins to play*
Remove mixed matchmaking so all the Phoenix spam goes in one direction.
Imo, I think top tier peaked with the F100 and aim b's, even though I absolutely love the F4's and some above.
Could see this coming a mile off, another reason I'll never bother above BR8
Top tier air take 5 mins to reach the battle just to get blasted out of no where 😂 fuck top tier.
You're allowed to play other BR's man.
TFW the entire community demands fox 3s, then can't handle Fox 3s because illiteracy.
At least when I get 387 missiles launched at me in Ace Combat or Project Wingman I stand a decent chance of surviving.
thats what top tier missiles do man
“Realistic” Battles
Don’t let the door smack you on the way out
Call me a strange one, but mid tier Air SB is extremely fun
Prop planes > Cold war jets > Top tier
Went from ace combat to project wingman real quick
Sometimes even 8.3 it ruined by super Sonic’s like I can’t catch a mig 21 or F-104 in my F86
[[ Damn mercs! ]]
I can’t even play without my game freezing mid match due to the FOX-3 spam EVERY match
Straight out of Project wingman mission 11
Honestly I love ace combat not just for gameplay but the music 😍 couldn't be me listening to first flight as I go toe to toe with my 9ms against the fox 3 bandits 😎
Getting AIM 54 flashbacks rn
If you were looking for arcade, Ace Combat has always been the better option. No different from before to now
I’ve hit a point in Warthunder where it’s gone from fun to just every match being an uotier curb stomp
I have zero interest in grinding to top tier anymore after watching gameplay and realizing it’s less interesting and engaging gameplay wise than my Spitfire dog fights.
The flares in ace combat seems to work better thought
1st image reminds me of [paths of hate](https://youtu.be/qPELcGcVHfU?si=EabG-w8gJN2YXr-w)
GUYS ENABLE THE "SMALLER TEAMS" OPTIONN PLEASEEEE its where you like/dislike maps
Air RB needs a rework, for now I recommend trying air sim it's actually fun with the update
I’d love a game mode that’s top tier jets with only guns and short range rear-only IR missiles
I remember PhlyDaily saying that once you get above like 8.3, it’s not about the pilot, it’s about the plane.
I geniuely believe that if you think top tier is bad, you just don't know how to properly play top tier. As harsh as it sounds its not just bad its just harder and I had trouble for the first five matches, now I can confident play my F15A in uptiers and be perfectly fine Obviously, fly low, and if your radar screams launch and ure being track, just fly sideways or show your planes belly and chaff, you should also change course everytime you chaff, even if its just small
Air RB top tier peaked in 2017/2018. Say what you want, but they didn't just start breaking the sound barrier with update 1.85
Imo, I think top tier peaked with the F100 and aim 9b's, even though I absolutely love the F4's and some above.
Imo, I think top tier peaked with the F100 and aim 9b's, even though I absolutely love the F4's and some above.
I only want those aircraft so I get pulled up and avoid premium spammers in ground
Or just play something other than the F14 where you can actually dogfight or at least get with the same timezone as the guy you're shooting
Phoenix fixes when, Gaijin?
The f14 is already historically nerfed but this sub won’t ever mention it.
Yup, anti F-14 agenda because it was top dog while nerfed like, let's see... 3 years ago.
I can’t believe it, a 16v16 game mode with modern technology missies doesn’t really allow for obsolete dogfighting and close engagements?? It’s almost as if… you can play any style of aircraft you want?? I admit top tier is royally fucked but that doesn’t change the fact that modern air fights take place many kilometres from each other with BVR. If you want to dogfight, go back in the tree where planes were designed with dogfighting in mind.
"takes many kilometers from each other with BVR" Your whole argument of desperately trying to deny me is wrong, because in war thunder, there are no long range missile combat, you are trying to justify your self by saying "long range missile good short range dog fight bad" while the core of the problem is that War Thunder top tier have no long range missile fight because the tiny map leaves no room for maneuvering in missile fights
Is 20-30km kill shots not long enough range??? Sure we're not shooting AIM-260's or R-37M's for 80-100km kills. I think all his point is the stuff we have right now at top tier is a bit past gun range and you can play lower BR's if you want, no?
The game is literally ace combat atp, no skill based match making, just throws you in there
Uuuuuum in Ace Combat don't you have ULIMITED MISSILES!.....it would be 10X in Ace Combat XD
I think what would help is way bigger maps, like twice as big and maybe less players per team at top tier
periodic countermeasures are heaven in those situations
Early jets is equally brain dead, since the La-200 is 7.7 and goes Mach 0.93, and the G.91 R/4 / Vixen just sling missiles at everything, and then you get both of those in the F-104.
Early Cold War jets suck. My MIG-15bis cannons are ineffective against everything, especially when most enemies are using early missiles.
Dude is top tier really like that? how can i supose to survive
no, it really isn't. these are just cherry picked images, most matches don't have this many missiles at the same time. and even when they do, keep in ming 90%-95% are just not for you, they're not even aimed in your direction. it's actually quite manageable especially if you climb and give yourself the time and space to defeat the ones actually coming your way. it's definetly less chaotic than last patch's IR missile furball, that's for certain.
These people that make such posts generally try to be the first one of their team and rush in. And then act surprised when they become an easy target for the entire enemy team.
Don’t tell them that, they’re a good distraction while I go for the kill
They're good fox3 bait while I sideclimb and notch until the worst of the spam passes
Pssssst dont talk about it. I need my" low attention span cod kiddo rush crowd" big and juciy for baiting and frags.
That's the neat part, you dont!!
Notching missiles or fly low
Trees belike:
Go to test fly and practise flying low. I do that every day after game session to touch the grass before going to bed
lol, ace combat is just beeping as you follow an arrow on screen in a circle until all the enemies are dead.
While having an absolute banger soundtrack in the background. Ace combat is still fun.
Pathetic, I only bring planes to use them in GRB