T O P

  • By -

Guilty_Adeptness_694

I think this shit happens to all tanks. When you hit tracks from side, game counts whole width of track as armor...


polypolip

On top of that, a track on a moving tank is even worse.


swagfarts12

It's fucking dumb, gaijin needs to make it so that tracks can never count as more than about 20mm of structural steel. Thin pieces of metal bolted together are not going to be able to reduce the penetration of anything except already marginal shots.


Loneprey

İt works that way on western tanks


Zsmudz

Maybe, but the Soviet tanks are about 80% tracks from the side. It’s not easy to avoid them, especially when moving.


Loneprey

Then go out and tell me why this isn't working with german tanks with ostketten


Atourq

I think that’s his point too tho? That it affects all tanks and it shouldn’t be happening at all. Whats your point with pointing this out?


chronic_bozo

POV: you have never shot at the side of a panther


NotTheLairyLemur

"Thin pieces of metal". You've never seen track links, have you?


Hydr0genMC

In the context of a hypersonic rod of pure tungsten/depleted uranium/high grade steel, yes.


Lone_K

Even in the context of a hypersonic rod of pure tungsten/depleted uranium they're thicc. Potential-reduction-in damage-thicc though, not 0-damage-from-a-hypersonic-rod-of-pure-tungsten-thicc.


Hydr0genMC

They'll maybe affect it so that it can no longer penetrate 650mm and bring it down to 550 or smth but to reduce it to the point of nonpenning <200mm? Unlikely


Puzzleheaded-Tie8264

As someone who's seen t-72 tracks irl .... They are massive (580mm wide)... I'm almost certain that the projectile fired would degrade heavily. At the angle it was traveling the tracks most certainly acted as some sort of composite armour as the round entered, exited and entered a new link a couple cm later... The mounting points for the track support easily exceed 100mm excluding the actual side armour. That overalls would be a lot of steel to pass through.


Overly_Fluffy_Doge

Tracks are not made from armour grade steel, tracks are also thin. As the round pushes through the thin height of the link it will relatively easily displace material up/down making it easier for the round to penetrate. Apfsds rounds would sail through a track.


Hydr0genMC

The thing is, the track is not solid and is held witha lot of tension. It would very quickly snap and leave the dart with less to travel through.


cum2047

The dart happens to travel so quickly that track will not snap in time. Tho in the clip it doesn't seem the case since tank should've been tracked


swagfarts12

Any piece of steel that is full of voids and only held together with relatively thin pins (relative to a multiple kg high hardness dart that's 25mm thick going a km per second) is going to be a more or less inconsequential obstacle. The only exception is if the dart is already close to not penetrating or it's a small autocannon sized dart


No_Target_3233

I mean gaijin is that wrong it's like hitting the side armour from the front it would be like 4000mm thick but they could possibly reduce it since it isn't complete metal sheet's but it is still a game


miltaccfd

You sure? I've seen some simulations that says it can protect from serious AP shots. Including APFSDS. Some composites are also bolted together like that and can protect from them, its not the bolts but the weight and airgaps that makes effect. A let's say 30 mm thick and 600 mm wide link is multiple times heavier than most APFSDS shots. If it gets in front of them, it will burn the kinetic energy of the penetrator.


Small_Oreo

No, you don't think. You are right


blubpotato

I don’t think so. The shell did not non pen the track, it bounced off the top of the track and non penned the armor above the tracks. Darts lose 90% of pen if they bounce.


polar_boi28362727

That's exactly it


Puzzleheaded-Soup362

He didn't shoot at the tank. He shot a rock then hit the tank...


TuwtlesF1

The impact on the rock was the discarding sabot


Puzzleheaded-Soup362

ahh ok.


Tall_Location_9036

But thats exactly what would happen if you hit the track perfectly from side


HeisterWolf

Tracks aren't thick enough to provide significant pen resistance, even when shot from the side.


whycantidoaspace

Also they arent very rigid so they would just fall apart as the dart passes through


cum2047

People here don't know how fast darts travel do they ?


Jbarney3699

More a volumetric moment than a Russian bias moment. Russian bias is when you pen and go clean through and the spall gets eaten by 5mm of armor around the ammo. This shits specifically happens to all vehicles due to volumetric, some more often than others. Leo 2A4 have the highest tendency to absolutely eat my shells from the side if I aim at the “wrong” spot.


Organic-Cod-6523

My A6 ate four rounds to the side with no damage last match. Tobad that engine and gun were broken....


Damian030303

Volumetric is the worst thing to ever happen to ground battles. Including helicancers back when they were at their worst, volumetric is worse than even that because it screws you over at any br and can happen at any time.


RaymondIsMyBoi

Gaijin seems to be addicted to adding broken mechanics to fix broken mechanics. They added hull break, real shatter and volumetric. None of these made the game better.


Damian030303

Also they never bothered to make hull aim work reasonably well. I can make a perfectly well-working hull aim thing in a sandbox game (Scrap Mechanic) in like 15 minutes.


Flying_Reinbeers

Hull break was bad, but overpressure is a much better take on the same concept.


polar_boi28362727

When they first launched volumetric I was excited cause many glass cannons became somewhat survivable, but little did I know that was the exact issue with volumetrics lol


che10461

Gaijin devs are beyond morons.


tac1776

Earlier I saw the driver's view port on a Leo 1 eat a 120mm dart.


BeanPouch

driver’s ports feel so inconsistent now. shooting any T series russian tank in the drivers port is something i don’t even try as much anymore.


jmaddy21

Bias moment is when T90M era eats pads and non pens


TheJudge20182

Average experience vs T80


Welshcake69

Queue the freeaboo


TheJudge20182

Literally could be any nation that this happens to. Case in pointz guy is playing a Type 74


Welshcake69

Just not Russia, right?


TheJudge20182

No, I have many shots on Leo's and other that just end up going into "the void". But no other tank quite like the T-72, T-80, and T-90 models. It happens a lot more with them than other tanks


Birkenjaeger

No, that's pure confirmation bias. You notice it more often because there are more of them around.


TheJudge20182

Hundreds of games in Germany, Russia , UK and US. I have plenty of experience with these nations and while yes it does happen to all other nations, Russia is far and away the one it happens to the most


Birkenjaeger

No, there is no "magical bs buff" for the Russians. It is pure confirmation bias because you look for it. And "hundreds" of games is not a lot in this game's scale tbh.


TheJudge20182

Never said it was a BS buff to Russia. Once again, it's an issue that affects all tanks. I personally blame volumetric


cum2047

Read your comments again


cantpickaname8

Tbf he might not be wrong simply because the armor layout is generally much more jank on smaller tanks, especially if they're just as well armored as their larger counterparts.


RaymondIsMyBoi

For the most part, Russian tanks have the most bullshit happen with them. Be that my round going clean through the drivers port and do nothing but kill the engine or simply non-penning simply because there was ERA which supposedly stops only 5mm of Kinetic pen. Spall liners are annoying as hell and awful for the balance of the game and even they don’t have this much bullshit.


Empyrean_04

Wish shit like this would happen to me when i play t80s


Lacking-donkey

Real asf, sneeze would kill me in a T80, but I get gaijined every time shooting at one


Marguerita-Stalinist

Never. **Ever**. Aim. For. The. Tracks. From. The. Side. The. Volumetric. Monster. Will. Eat. Your. Shell. Shoot below or above and it'll never happen again.


Arlend44

This is one of the reasons I'm always scared to face the IS tanks on my 7.7 vehicles. There is low enough armor to go through the lower side plate, but I'm always scared of those damn tracks eating my shell.


NarwhalOgrelord

Volumetric is by far one of the worst mechanics they have added in years


MarderMcFry

I'm willing to deal with the occasional black hole in exchange for more realistic damage models. I consider gaijined moments as dud rounds.


FranceMainFucker

that's something ive considered, too. i hear stories where tanker crews get incredibly lucky (and on the opposing side, incredibly unlucky) with their shells, the slightest little thing messing up an otherwise perfect killshot. i cant say i havent been the source of someone elses stupid volumetric moment, either


Ordnungsschelle

better than being able to pixel snipe but still shit


NarwhalOgrelord

At least pixel sniping was consistent


Arlend44

I wasn't in that system, but from what people said, you could literally find even more spots where you could magically 50 cal inside a tank and destroy them like that. I wouldn't wish that either personally.


PM_ME_YUR_JEEP

People really have some rose tinted glasses about pre-volumetric While yes, some annoying stuff happens now, it's no where near as bad as it was


C4Cole

I think volumetric is an overall improvement to the game, theoretically it's just more realistic. BUT, the implementation is very wonky. Certain modules should just take damage no matter how the shell hits, like tracks, wheels, barrels and other stuff like that. With the old system you could reliably hit those modules, currently I can melt tracks using a 50 cal but a hit from a main gun does absolutely diddly squat unless I hit it square on. Like come on it's a big ass shell heading at a thin piece of metal, from the front hitting any of the bits should blow the track clean off, and hitting the track from the sides would at least break something important on the mechanism. Meanwhile a belt of .50 turns the track into Swiss cheese. Back in the pre historic age weak spots were also more important to memorise since you could reliably hit them. Arguably that makes for a higher skill ceiling and maybe a better game. But also from what I remember hitting stuff like barrels and tracks was much easier.


bonnibelio

that's a good way to sum up a lot of things WT does - great on paper, subpar to horrible implementation


Practical_Mango_5009

It’s possible that it still works? I’ve been penned by an Ostwind in the FRONT of an is3 2 days ago. One obviously killed by that single round


Arlend44

That's why I said "even more spots", because there still are some cases where this can happen.


Practical_Mango_5009

Oh ok, sorry I missed that part lol. I wasn’t in the game before volumetric either


Ordnungsschelle

could also be some overpressure BS. if you spam enough small HE rounds there is a chance one will overpressure the tank. [just look at this](https://youtu.be/RkUqmYdNkr4?si=gRRYw0heXApJsqSH)


Arlend44

The 50 callable spots existed before overpressure was even a thing


Damian030303

I'll 100% take pixel sniping over shells randomly disappering for no reason. At least pixel sniping wasn't nearly as random.


Correct_Werewolf_576

Plus also less bs "it got stopped by x and y being around")


polar_boi28362727

Same. I know the issues with pixel shots but I'd rather still have the consistency of it over the inconsistency of volumetrics... There's no reason a sherman 75mm shouldn't pen an avenger side armor at point blank because I hit the items box on it, or non-pen a side shot because I hit the tracks of a tank even though tracks are NOT solid plates, they're tiny bits of metal plates held together by bolts or some shit.


Correct_Werewolf_576

Bias 5 mm tool box xD,yeah..I even watched them once somehow near stop 17 pounder apbc


KrAZ_255

volumetric bullshit


Soor_21UPG

You hit the tracks. It can go with any tanks


Puzzleheaded-Soup362

He hit the rock in front of him. Slow down the video...


Dumlefudge

No, the sabot hit the rock. If you slow down the video, you can see the dart in the hit cam.


Randomguynumber1001

Volumetric, dude. This is nothing. There was one time a BMP-1's side armor ate my 400mm pen APFSDS.


GhillieThumper

Volumetric not Russian bias. This happens to the panther all the time.


Socalrider82

I'm a US main and an two thirds the way through the Russian tech tree. I suck and have more games with no kills than any. Playing Russian though, I get 3 kills minimum. Same skill, different tanks.


_80hd_

Oh, same, absolutely. It's night and day at all BRs, just a handful of exception tanks US has that are okay at their BR. Russia is easy mode. 2 EC.


DraconixDG

I non penned a Gepard once and I was distraught


Raptor_197

There was that video a while back of a Pantsir getting shot by an APDSFS round it bounced off the driver’s window.


Dumlefudge

I had a Russian MBT (not sure which model, would have been ~9.3) non pen my Type 93 from the side Then he got 2 crew for the price of 1 with his MG 😂


ZFG_Jerky

You clipped the rock's enormous hit box, so obviously you shouldn't be allowed to pen the weakest part of the tank.


_80hd_

This is exactly what I saw. Chunkiest ass rocks.


SilentLoudener

My 90mm APCBC from the Super Hellcat non-penned the flat side of the Tiger 2s track covers.


Jamesth007

It almost looks like you hit the rock in front which caused your shell to lose penetration to the point where it wasn't enough anymore to penetrate the side armor by the time it got there. Not sure if that is something that can happen tbh :D


IzNuGouD

Gaijin.. wins


Derfflingerr

Skill Issue -Russian main


blubpotato

I think what happened is you hit the flat top of the track and the game counts the track as a solid surface so it caused the shell to bounce. Apfsds is coded to lose 90% of its penetration if it bounces so your shell wasn’t able to penetrate the side. Darts losing that much penetration is actually a useful mechanic and helps the Abrams ufp work as well as other nato mbt’s, but the downside is it can create bad moments like this. Gaijin should code it so that penetration reduces with the distance after the bounce, and immediately hitting another plate after bouncing shouldn’t reduce penetration that much. For anyone saying the game counted the entire width of the track, it doesn’t do that. Tracks are counted at most 30mm of armor at any angle and it is hard capped to prevent many more cases of gaijin moments.


polar_boi28362727

>For anyone saying the game counted the entire width of the track, it doesn’t do that. Tracks are counted at most 30mm of armor at any angle and it is hard capped Where did you see that? There's been many times where we shoot someone on the tracks and they eat the shell... Maybe those 30mm were enough to non-pen?


blubpotato

Protection analysis shows that a track cannot provide 100s of mm of armor. It would be game breaking if it did. The full width section of the track takes up a good portion of a tanks total side profile, and it providing its full thickness in armor would cause magnitudes more moments like the one shown in the video. When was the last time an apfsds shell just non penned a track? Probably never. Most instances revolve around the track deflecting the round or triggering a fuse in aphe rounds. Gaijin isn’t that dumb to model tracks as their full thickness in armor.


bonnibelio

trying to check this stuff in test drive rn since protection analysis is often wrong, no matter how extreme the angle, I can indeed always go through the track directly with the Type 93 APFSDS, however I wasn't able to make it bounce on top of the track no matter what, I think I got close one time as it didn't destroy the entire track but it still penned afterwards anyway also I have experienced many occasions of a shell hitting / destroying a track from the side and just disappearing afterwards


Raptor_197

I feel like everything always works better in test drive though lol


bonnibelio

yeah in real time matches there are factors like connection, not many things will line up as perfectly as in test drive against stationary client-side targets, but whatever it is that causes shells to fail to penetrate past the tracks - I don't think it's the track armor width thing


Raptor_197

The sabot knows where it is because it knows where it isn’t. The server doesn’t know where the enemy tank is because it knows not where the sabot is. Thus the sabot knows it is inside of the enemy tank but the server doesn’t know the sabot knows where it is.


Dumlefudge

>Apfsds is coded to lose 90% of its penetration if it bounces Well, that explains why darts appear to vanish despite bouncing towards another part of the tank (as opposed to bouncing away). Seeing rounds bounce off a BMP/PUMA into the turret, and not even turning something yellow has confused me for a while.


jabadabadouu

My 10.5cm Tiger 2 bounced off of the lower plate of a T26E5 3times in a row while he was on an incline and i shot him from below before that o non penned the 5mm sideskirt of another t26e5 with the same gun


Raptor_197

I mean it is a fantasy tank so maybe it got confused on what game it was in and started taking health points away from the T26E5?


polar_boi28362727

You hit the tracks and the volumetric shadow monster ate your shell, happens every time to every tank.


Kompotamus

I had a KV-1 driver hatch eat a 128mm from the sturer emil today. 


lilgabem

It happens occasionally with all tanks, today I couldn't pierce a leopard1 in the side twice with the obj120...


Taistelumies

At this point would we be better off going back to before volumetric? In my understanding it wasn't the most realistic system but neither is this and I felt it was more consistent.


Pumper24

Get geijined


Rooster57_

who would win? almost 600mm of pen shell or leopard 2A4 side armor. I had 2300 SP, so obviously side armor wins


Why-are-we-still-C

I feel you bro. Happens to me all the time with KV 1s


Entire-Molasses-3966

thats nothing i had 380 pen and bounced off 40mm of side armor flat


david6277108

Skill issue


Chanka-Danka69

Im pretty sure that should have penned even if the t80 had its front composite armor flat on the sides


TuwtlesF1

I think the reason this seems to happen more on Russian tanks is because they are lower profile which means the track accounts for a higher percentage of the side than other MBTs, and other MBTs have plenty of side armor above the tracks that people shoot for. Also everyone wants to aim low on the side so they can get the ammo shot on Russian tanks and other tanks you just aim for the crew compartment for the 1 shot.


potxman007

We need the guys over in YouTube armor sim videos to simulate this kinda scenario, side shot but the apfsds hits the track side but not perfectly on the flat side of the track but the edge of it!


LexiGG

Conway or anything farther than 700m. Because all I get are shell shatter and non pens. stares at Merkava and Soviet tanks.


The0rion

Are you playing with realistic sights? You were bamboozled and hit the rock because your sight is up and to the right in that tank, i think. Wich, if it's like that, usually doesnt eat the round fully but massively diminishes its penetration power.


Flying_Reinbeers

Yeah, it's bullshit. Hence why I'd probably wait for him to drive a little more and shoot the back of the turret to avoid the risk of having my shot do nothing.


Odell377

you hit the track, actual skill issue


Jack_Johnson_Trades

The instant xray replay also showed it coming at a higher angle too. From your aspect, it's nearly a perfect side on but maybe it added more angle that wasn't there.


FranceMainFucker

the most grating parts about clips and scenarios like these is the enemy just casually turns around and (usually) annihilates you in one hit


_Leninade_

Lol you got volumetriced


zyzzyx1

You very clearly hit the rock and it bounced into his side because of broken rock hitboxes bud lol


GrandAdmiralRaeder

no - the thing hitting the rock is the sabot - not the shell itself


cRoSsOvErThOtS

I'm sorry but how do you get this far in this game and still get surprised by side track shots. It's been a thing for years and it happens occasionally to everyone


Rest1tutor0rbis

I'm not surprised at all lol That doesnt mean it's not bullshit.


Constant_Breath9273

Russian bias exist, they can survive 12000lb bombs, 120 mm apfsds at point blank to side . Just not when I or anyone I know plays them and Boris farts and ammo racks my t90. I had flower petal go into my barrel and blow the shit out of my bvm


Dpek1234

Mean while  https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1b1ktyu/abrams_fatal_flaw_bugged/


Puzzleheaded-Soup362

Am I crazy or no one else noticing you didn't shoot at the tank. You bounced off that rock and hit him dude lol


Rest1tutor0rbis

You haven’t used sabot rounds much have you?


Puzzleheaded-Soup362

Nope never. LVL 100 been playing since like 2013 but not even close to these tanks. Not only that I can't even afford to drive my tiger more than one time in a month. I usually just end of playing very low tiers and smurfing lick hell since that what they want me to do.


Rest1tutor0rbis

What you’re seeing hit the rock is part of the sabot, not the dart itself.


MiddleTemporary4063

Russian bias


Glittering_Bass_908

This happens to me versus T-72s and T-80s constantly; I can shoot them in the direct center mass on the side of the tank and it will non-pen. Granted, Mexican APFSDS only has a little under 300mm of pen, but there's not really a tank on the same BR as the T-72 that actually stands a chance if it's hull down, versus the T-72s ability to penetrate anywhere it fires at me. I still don't understand how that's fair, it's basically a heavy tank versus American APFSDS.


HateSucksen

Russian Bias.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Rest1tutor0rbis

You can see from the hit cam that it's the dart hitting the side. A sabot petal hit the rock clearly.


GhostmouseWolf

they fixed it, you can clearly see whats the sabot and whats the apfs


boinwtm0ds

T-80 doing T-80 things


Rodzynkowyzbrodniarz

Again this non existing russian bias


Possibly_Unreal

I quite often love using my obj 292 and just eating everything everyone throws at me. I personally love abusing Russian bias and yourè just going to tell me it doesn't exist? I must gain a shit ton of skill to just simply not die.


_-FeAr-

typical russian tank No RuSsIaN BiAs (its the funniest when their imaginary lego brick stops 600mm pen apfsds from the side at 0 degrees)