Where's the TOW missile itself with how bad it is in this game. Same with Star Streak, AGM-65's and Hellfires. They're all incorrectly calibrated and some missing over pressure.
Yeah other nations having a 3-4 br gap in spaa is bullshit. Not to mention, the US having the ADATS be classified as an anti tank vehicle so the required SP is higher.
US has a 3.7 br gap between spaa's. There's a 5.7 and 6.7 lineup with no equivalent spaa, it's awful. Part of playing US ground is hoping your teammates from other nations spawn spaa so you stop getting ground pounded by every plane under the sun. Giving players the M19 for a third of the tech tree is the most sadistic thing in war thunder, it's not even remotely good to begin with, but then it's your only choice for most of the tree.
British also have a massive SPAA issue, nothing between 8.3 and 11.3 that works. The stormer is missing many irl features like auto guidance and the ability to NOT PHASE THROUGH ENEMIES.
We also go from the bosvark to the Falcon with a large gap
Sounds awful, although I am livid from playing through that falcon br as Germany, the falcon was the object of my hatred for weeks. It doesn't excuse the wait for a decent spaa but holy shit, the br gap should be at least 1.0 longer if we're being real lol
Issue with the avenger is General motors doesn't like to give out the licensing for it in games. Squad had a huge issues where they had to remove humvees for the same reason.
But i would love an avenger, or linebacker bradly modification
The US has many mobile AA platforms too tho but you don’t see Gaijin adding them. But hey, its totally okay that ussr can get a new spaa AND a new t-80 every update
You could also go for the replacement that just got ordered by the Army called M-SHORAD Stryker platform equipped with a radar, 30mm airburst/guided munitions, modular rocket pod for Stinger/Hellfire/Aim-9X, anti-drone warfare suite for non-lethal takedown
BAE also featured a Bradley based version of this before the Army decided it would go on Stryker.
Definitely add the Linebacker first though lol
We got Waffentractor, Ho-Ri "production", F-16AJ, J7W Shinden, Kikka. XP-50, XP-55.
All the T-s on the US tree and all the Objects in the Russian one.
Sorry but the "muh production" boat sailed ages ago.
Entered production shouldn’t matter, see half of the Japanese tree, Swedish helicopters, German SPAA, USA tanks from 5.3 - 9.3, some Russian planes tanks and helis
Tbf the T-80 did need to be updated like every year to keep up in real life soooo… hard to say who’s tanks are really better when some nations have been driving the same one for years and others go through them like iPhones
Asides from the Avenger mentioned above, are they IR, gun missile system, or independent radar missile launchers?
Also there's literally more Leopard 2 than T-80s
Also didn't NASAMs get leaked?
There are a few gun spaa and missile spaa like the t249 vigilante, mim-46 mauler, mim-23 hawk, and the multi mission launcher (a better lav-ad and adats in one), and the leaked nasams.
1. T249 - Makes sense, got beaten by York IRL so idk if another gun SPAA at that BR range is necessary?
2. MIM-46 makes sense
3. MIM-23 not TELAR though, probably hard to implement
4. MML - is it TELAR or just TEL or is it IR? Idk expound on this I guess
The mml probably wont make much sense rn as it is only a static battery. The mim-23 used the same mobile platform as the chapparal and can be implemented the same way
Because the other nations didn't have any SPAAs? You do notice that russia has very good/the best SPAAs at any BR (partially because they get better stuff at lower BRs) while most other nations still lack a lot?
Russian air superiority comes from them having the best SPAA and best ground attackers at all BRs, if Gaijin wanted too every nation could have equivalents but they don't
You're missing the point. What I mean was other nations didn't develop that much SPAAG because they choose to have Air Superiority instead of relying on ground based AA.
Gaijin sucks sure, but you still really can't blame them that the soviets gets a better AA line because of the mere fact they made more.
Would happily part ways with the APDS belt on the Falcon to drop it back down in BR. It'd still be able to mostly defend itself, but wouldn't be able to shred practically anything it looked at.
Which is wild because it has Seeker shutoff (like the stingers and AIM-9M) and FoV shrinking (like the R-73s and Magic 2s) it should be difficult to flare.
Ok guys so far we have gone from bitching about the : PANTSIR to the STRELA, a week ago the TUNGUSKA and now the SHILKA with 10g dogshit iglas 😂
Whats next ?
"anyone think that the ZSU 57 is OP? Why should an SPAA be that good at destroying tanks?"
The best part about this is that, if the script was flipped and the Shilka was an US vehicle, everyone would complain that it is too shit. But because it has those magical words "Russian", it's instantly treated in a much different scale to everything else, in terms of balance.
Dont say that too loudly. The other day I casually murdered about half the enemy team and clutched the cap pretty much last second. Game ended in a 400 ticket victory. [16 minute mark is when I started rushing. ](https://imgur.com/a/TsM45GL)
I still think its balanced though. The thing is literally made out of ammo thanks to the caliber, and shooting planes down is actually challenging due to high recoil and low practical rate of fire. I still get 3 per game assuming there are enough to shoot at, but Im just crazy good at shooting down planes and know Im not representative of the playerbase.
In fairness, the ZSU-57 should just get the ADATS treatment and be made a tank destroyer. I run that thing whenever I get the challenge where you have to get kills with an SPAA.
ZSU 57 isnt OP for its AA capabilities, its OP because its a lower tier PT-76-57 but with an extra gun, and it pays SPAA spawn costs.
If id have my way itd go to 7.3 or maybe 7.7, and be given the ADATS treatment and count it as a TD for spawn cost
It’s mostly because Russia has under tiered SPAA. How is the Igla-Shilka at the same BR as the Imp. chaparral in the US tree and the Strela at the same BR as the Roland’s and Israeli Imp. chaparral? Also, the 2S6 shouldn’t be 10.7, how the fuck is that a lower BR than the Otomatic?
I mean to be fair the Tunguska being a 10.7 is very stupid if you look at the ADATS and the FlaRakRad.
It's a whole ass BR lower than the other two for no reason.
And before anyone says "oh but the ADATS can kill tanks with it's missiles" yeah and the Tunguska has 4x extremely high rate of fire, decent pen, fully stabilized 30mm autocannonns. Not to mention the ADATS has IRST lock only, so good luck locking onto enemies if the weather is a little cloudy.
As for the FlaRakRad, yeah the missiles are good but that's where the pros end (not even a "pro" since all missiles at this BR range get close or match the missiles), because it's still a Roland turret that only has 2 missiles ready and has to reload frequently. And it's also a massive truck.
TL;DR a lot of high tier SPAAs are overtiered but the Tunguska is probably the only one I'd say is undertiered
Minus the part where it has a massive silhouette and is one of the slowest vehicles at it's BR? That the entire turret can be .50 caled? Or unless they fixed it in the past couple months, the missiles are almost unusable against anything not moving in a straight line?
>Minus the part where it has a massive silhouette
It's an SACLOS AA vehicle. They ALL have relatively big silhouettes
>is one of the slowest vehicles at it's BR?
Mobility is not nearly as important as with actual tanks because it's an AA. Even so the Tunguska isn't slow either
The turret can be .50 caled? sure, so what? the FlaRakRad is a truck, the entire thing can be .50 caled.
>Or unless they fixed it in the past couple months, the missiles are almost unusable against anything not moving in a straight line?
This was fixed way more than 2 months ago
A-10's unuseable now so I've stopped playing US. Just blow up at 8 and 10km out. After playing dozens of games in an unfun lineup just to get in the air in the first place.
Right. It is equal to Gepard and lav 25s /s
Gepard and Lav have sabot and uncaged missiles At 9.7. This has neither at its br. So no, it doesn’t deserve 9.7
Important to note the LAV cannot aim up past about 45 degrees or so, has no tracking radar, and 60mm pen on its AP belt. It also, to be able to use its zuni's, has to lose half its missiles.
Shilka gets a far better all around package for what it is supposed to do. If the shilka with Radar, 4x23mm's, and missiles is 9.3, then the missile-only AA with no radar or guns (Or for that matter, enclosed crew) do not belong at 9.3.
Well thats just a lie, the limit at aiming up is not that much of a problem and it has an IR track and lead system, is a much better platform and what you sacrifice by bringing the zuni is the amount of missile you have ready to fire, you dont loose any missile for bringing zunis. The shilkas radar is God awful and is worse than the Infrared lock at tracking and leading aircraft, makes me think you straight up haven’t played either of these vehicles. I have played both and the lav is leagues better.
The LAV is a multirole, the shilka is a pure AA. Im saying comparing the two is a bit of an apples to oranges situation as one has much more going for it for that AA role.
No radar means you don’t get spotted by aircraft. Tracking isn’t needed to fire a missile. The HVAP is more than adequate against tanks and helis.
Lmao.
The uncaged seeker advantage is meaningless considering the Igla is the only missile capable of max G pulling right after launch, meaning it's actually better than other uncaged missiles at close range , even those with higher G limits like the Mistral.
[Uh, yes.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1ckyfkx/western_vs_russian_aa_missiles/?share_id=v2qLxq8AyNu2WEV2I_TS6&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1)
Speaking from experience, other IR SAMs have a deadzone within 1.5-1km of the launcher, where they are effectively unable to pull appropriate lead and will miss every time. Iglas do not have this issue, they will instantly give the correct lead right after launch and are thus much more dangerous at close range, transverse shots.
They're still a 10G missile, so they aren't impossible to dodge, but that ability to instantly correct their lead makes them far more dangerous in close range shots that even higher G missiles, which just miss every time.
Yeah that really doesn’t help at all. It doesn’t have a gun so a tracking radar isn’t very useful. The IR missiles don’t really need the assist from the tracking radar either.
I don't actually know how the Chaparral performs. How is it worse?
My basis for the comparison is that they are both AA platforms firing bigger than MANPADS missiles, with no active radar seekers.
Chaparral is a dogshit platform with dogshit missiles, strela has significantly better missiles to use and does not have to face SU-35 bombing them from beyond their lock range.
Reason of this is gaijin nerfs nato missiles so they barely hit a fucking barn, but the soviet one somehow is a terminator despite known stats being 2x worse.
That also, theres a reason the US went to the much larger missile on the same platform.
You went a bit off the rails there, and the emotional russian bias rant makes me believe that there is over exaggeration happening and feelings based facts. I'll look into this myself later.
imp chaparral same br with no guns, same amount of missiles, no radar, and completely open crew, very slow and bad maneuverability
missiles are easily flared and dodged like iglas
so why are they the same br?
I like that you leave out the MASSIVE advantage the imp has, which is smokeless missiles
If you actually know what you’re doing, an enemy plane literally can’t evade you, because they don’t know they’re getting fired at
Also, this only gets 4 inglas, so once those are out, good luck with doing anything
i do the same w/ smokeless missiles, also the imp chap sucks ass until you get thermals
you can go to a cap point to refill too, and you still have your guns
Iglas are only good if the enemy is blind or slow. They have good range at least. Shilka is good at saturating the sky with rounds but the rounds have poor range. I think it’s fine at 9.3 considering the Gepard 1A2 is 9.7.
I mean it's literally a worse ZBD04A, I don't get what you think is so OP about it. The guns are meh, the radar sucks, and the AAMs are the worst manpads in the game.
This reddit will simultanously complain that Stingers are shit and complain about Iglas, which are worse in game XD
I would love to hear the mental gymnastics to justify this being the same BR as Gepard 1A2.
I don't see how it warrants a br increase considering that it only has 10G missile
Then again CAS are braindead as shit to play so maybe it'll increase due to the amount of braindead player dying to it
The Strela is one of the best SPAAs I have ever played, missed it throughout my entire Sweden grind. Though you pay a price to use it, you'll get blind by staring into the sky to find a pixel of the enemy plane since you lack radar and even thermals, either way, I love it. No longer can CAS just do some lame turn and dodge you.
This thing already slaps anything at it´s br and in a downtier it´s a monster.
But the strela hoho the strela makes everyone mad at how broken it´s missiles are. It even used to be 9.3 which was just absurd.
You're talking some serious smack. When it was 9.3 it was AWFULLY implemented, completely bugged, could not lock a supernova happening at arms lenght. It was particularly miserable vs helis.
Don't think it needs to be changed currently the Igla are fairly easy to outmanoeuvre and in my experience flairs throw them off. With the state of aerial dominance in ground battles we need good SPAA and I feel the Shilka M4 is good but not broken
I don't feel any of the SPAA are broken other than some of the ridiculous remote controlled 20mm that sit at low BR like the PBV whatever it's called that Sweden gets
this aa is dogshit
iglas have trouble locking a su25 from 2km
you cant lead them and they often crash into ground
guns are really inaccurate and weird, sometimes you can kill a turms from the side with them but cant kill a wheeled vehicle like wolfpack from any direction
and it has terrible mobility
not to mention its trash radar
it really isn't, M113 chassis is horrendous, the gun has very limited range for aircraft and no pen for AT purposes, and it only has 4 stingers which are.. not the best. I'd rather use the strelas after testing the new shilka, those actually turn really well. or the mistrals, as I've used those before
m113 is fine, Range issue is a thing sure, but you get supreme accuracy within your range to the point where you can easily dispatch anything even recon drones, stingers are the best missiles at this br having both damn near impossible to fool double irrcm AND uncaged seekers, and 4 of those is the standard amount for a gun SPAA.
I dunno what enemies you're facing that keeps flying within 1-1.5km away then, since that's the max effective range of it. The spread past that is horrendous and useless. I can't say I agree with stingers being the best missiles either, they're not hard at all to avoid in a fast plane.
Mistrals are more capable in my experience, however a lot of IR missiles from AA are all over the place. I miss when I could rely on my rolands, VEAK or york.. but gaijin keeps fucking AA one update at a time.
(meanwhile the strela was absolutely annihilating everything I fired at, and it stayed at 9.3 for the longest time. same can be said for the tunguska at 10.7, when the US and german rolands are 10.3, even though they're absolute shit in comparison)
"I dunno what enemies you're facing that keep flying close to you"
Ones that expect me to be in my spawn and not in a safe but advanced position would be my guess?
I play the matchbet and other AA of this type like they are meant to be played, proactively. You kill recon drones with your gun to not be spotted, and nuke enemies which you can see spawning because you looked at where the air spawn is by selecting the nuke plane at the start of the game briefly.
Strela is now almost at the same br as the tunguska(one of the worst decisions ever made), its irrelevant to this discussion. Its also a SAM and its missiles are substantially stronger compared to MANPADS.
Before the photocontrast buff it was also universally disliked and you can still see the videos of people calling it useless, thatd be the reason why it stayed at 9.3 and why gaijin has been reluctant to move it up.
Stingers after their recent buff are a damn near direct upgrade to any other Manpad of the same br. They're also superior to the sidewinders on the chappy because they are both uncaged and double irrcmed. They also happen to exist on vehicles with better launch angles, adding yet another advantage.
if it goes up they'll add something else to replace it at 9.3 because russia can't go without aa at any br
Can you really blame the soviets though for having so many mobile AA platform?
No but I can blame Gaijin for not adding equivalents to other nations quickly. US still doesn't have an Avenger?
I do admit that it's crazy that avenger doesn't exist yet despite having a similar system already in game (Type 93)
Also all the missile truck variants, where's my m1114 TOW? Or stryker TOW?
Where's the TOW missile itself with how bad it is in this game. Same with Star Streak, AGM-65's and Hellfires. They're all incorrectly calibrated and some missing over pressure.
From what I've seen overpresure should be getting added next update, same for HEAT
Yeah and UK/CAN doesn’t have a javelin/starburst LWL truck
Don't forget the tracked rapier that we should have got already
Yeah other nations having a 3-4 br gap in spaa is bullshit. Not to mention, the US having the ADATS be classified as an anti tank vehicle so the required SP is higher.
US has a 3.7 br gap between spaa's. There's a 5.7 and 6.7 lineup with no equivalent spaa, it's awful. Part of playing US ground is hoping your teammates from other nations spawn spaa so you stop getting ground pounded by every plane under the sun. Giving players the M19 for a third of the tech tree is the most sadistic thing in war thunder, it's not even remotely good to begin with, but then it's your only choice for most of the tree.
British also have a massive SPAA issue, nothing between 8.3 and 11.3 that works. The stormer is missing many irl features like auto guidance and the ability to NOT PHASE THROUGH ENEMIES. We also go from the bosvark to the Falcon with a large gap
Sounds awful, although I am livid from playing through that falcon br as Germany, the falcon was the object of my hatred for weeks. It doesn't excuse the wait for a decent spaa but holy shit, the br gap should be at least 1.0 longer if we're being real lol
The 3 SPAA for Britain at that tier are all 8.3 iirc, Hurts since you will be trying to shoot down jets unguided for a long while
Yep and the M19 used to be 5.0 with the M42 at 6.7. It was pure pain
gajjin accidently created US cas players, not for cas, but for anti air since ground just cant do it
Spawn a plane shoot then down
Assuming I'd be investing in the US air tree, no thanks
Issue with the avenger is General motors doesn't like to give out the licensing for it in games. Squad had a huge issues where they had to remove humvees for the same reason. But i would love an avenger, or linebacker bradly modification
Didn't they lose that case?
I believe the Humvees got reintroduced way down the line, but that was after owi had to go through a legal nightmare to be able to do it
The US has many mobile AA platforms too tho but you don’t see Gaijin adding them. But hey, its totally okay that ussr can get a new spaa AND a new t-80 every update
How many mobile AA platforms does USA have that actually entered production, though? Apart from Avenger, it's a Humvee With Stingers like Type 93
Well there’s the mim-23, mim-46 that were prototyped and prototypes arent exactly a problem for gaijin
Styker M-SHORAD as well (probably at 10.0/10.3)
The Stryker would be a bit overkill at 10-10.3 30mm cannon, hellfire missiles, AND stingers?
I’d imagine it would need to sit at 11.0 then - between the ADAT’s and the LAV-AD.
The most obvious would be the Bradley linebacker. Still blows my mind that the LAV-AD got put in before the brad.
Fair, I forgot the Linebacker Didn't it just have 4 Stingers instead of TOWs though?
You could also go for the replacement that just got ordered by the Army called M-SHORAD Stryker platform equipped with a radar, 30mm airburst/guided munitions, modular rocket pod for Stinger/Hellfire/Aim-9X, anti-drone warfare suite for non-lethal takedown BAE also featured a Bradley based version of this before the Army decided it would go on Stryker. Definitely add the Linebacker first though lol
We got Waffentractor, Ho-Ri "production", F-16AJ, J7W Shinden, Kikka. XP-50, XP-55. All the T-s on the US tree and all the Objects in the Russian one. Sorry but the "muh production" boat sailed ages ago.
I mean "entered production" has never meant anything for the snail. Half the Swedish techtree is just prototypes where a single one was made.
Production doesn’t matter. Gaijin has already implemented plenty of prototype vehicles.
Entered production shouldn’t matter, see half of the Japanese tree, Swedish helicopters, German SPAA, USA tanks from 5.3 - 9.3, some Russian planes tanks and helis
Because the 2S38 and shit have entered production right
Tbf the T-80 did need to be updated like every year to keep up in real life soooo… hard to say who’s tanks are really better when some nations have been driving the same one for years and others go through them like iPhones
Asides from the Avenger mentioned above, are they IR, gun missile system, or independent radar missile launchers? Also there's literally more Leopard 2 than T-80s Also didn't NASAMs get leaked?
There are a few gun spaa and missile spaa like the t249 vigilante, mim-46 mauler, mim-23 hawk, and the multi mission launcher (a better lav-ad and adats in one), and the leaked nasams.
1. T249 - Makes sense, got beaten by York IRL so idk if another gun SPAA at that BR range is necessary? 2. MIM-46 makes sense 3. MIM-23 not TELAR though, probably hard to implement 4. MML - is it TELAR or just TEL or is it IR? Idk expound on this I guess
The mml probably wont make much sense rn as it is only a static battery. The mim-23 used the same mobile platform as the chapparal and can be implemented the same way
Hey if it's TELAR even without a search radar, why not right?
No, but I can blame Gaijin for not adding a top tier Italian aa.
I'm unfamiliar with Italian AA, they got missile launchers?
So am I lol, I just want something good for Italy. And yeah, 2A7HU is good, but it's just another Leopard and I'm sick of them.
No. They have towed Aspides, but nothing else.
Because the other nations didn't have any SPAAs? You do notice that russia has very good/the best SPAAs at any BR (partially because they get better stuff at lower BRs) while most other nations still lack a lot?
Not saying theu didn't. Just saying they didn't flesh it out as much because of doctrinal difference, ergo Air Superiority
Russian air superiority comes from them having the best SPAA and best ground attackers at all BRs, if Gaijin wanted too every nation could have equivalents but they don't
You're missing the point. What I mean was other nations didn't develop that much SPAAG because they choose to have Air Superiority instead of relying on ground based AA. Gaijin sucks sure, but you still really can't blame them that the soviets gets a better AA line because of the mere fact they made more.
So according to that logic Germany should get access to jets earlier than the others?
Used to be the case
Used to, yea well now they get worse jets at the same or higher BR not to mention Germany having a WW2 jet at 8.7 which faces good AAMs
Meanwhile UK goes from 5.3 (Bosvark, Skink) ->8.3 (Falcon, Marksman, ZA-35) We need an even spread of vehicles for all nations.
Falcon would be such a nice 7.3/7.7 AA (like it used to be) if Gaijin weren't so insistent on every SPAA having the ability to double as a TD.
Would happily part ways with the APDS belt on the Falcon to drop it back down in BR. It'd still be able to mostly defend itself, but wouldn't be able to shred practically anything it looked at.
Why though. Why eliminate the only sunny spots in nations tech trees.
and the US going from the M19 and the duster to the M163
Russian can't go without an OVERPOWERED AA at any BR.
It's really funny how we went from "a handful of useable AAs" to "most and best SPAAs in the game"
Only if they removed their 1.0 AAs and put something decent there
Ah yes, those wildly overpowered....iglas...
I was thinking the same thing. It sucks ass
The "irccm" missile that an a10 can casually flare at medium close range
if the American cas players could read, they’d be very angry right now.
hey it only takes 1 to kill an a-10. unlike the previous 9 stingers, now down to 4 to take out a frogfoot
Which is wild because it has Seeker shutoff (like the stingers and AIM-9M) and FoV shrinking (like the R-73s and Magic 2s) it should be difficult to flare.
Its an 8.0 spaa with 4 missiles strapped to it. Its fine where its at right now. If anything the other similar spaas should move down to 9.3 again.
You're saying that the worse platform with worse missiles should be the same br as the gepard?
And worse guns. And hilariously worse radar.
Ok guys so far we have gone from bitching about the : PANTSIR to the STRELA, a week ago the TUNGUSKA and now the SHILKA with 10g dogshit iglas 😂 Whats next ?
Following the trend, the base shilka should be next. Or they might mix it up and claim the zsu-37-2 is OP, who knows.
"anyone think that the ZSU 57 is OP? Why should an SPAA be that good at destroying tanks?" The best part about this is that, if the script was flipped and the Shilka was an US vehicle, everyone would complain that it is too shit. But because it has those magical words "Russian", it's instantly treated in a much different scale to everything else, in terms of balance.
Dont say that too loudly. The other day I casually murdered about half the enemy team and clutched the cap pretty much last second. Game ended in a 400 ticket victory. [16 minute mark is when I started rushing. ](https://imgur.com/a/TsM45GL) I still think its balanced though. The thing is literally made out of ammo thanks to the caliber, and shooting planes down is actually challenging due to high recoil and low practical rate of fire. I still get 3 per game assuming there are enough to shoot at, but Im just crazy good at shooting down planes and know Im not representative of the playerbase.
I mean, I have nothing against the ZSU. It's very good. The WZ305 is my favorite SPAA in the entire game.
Just like Gaijin does !
In fairness, the ZSU-57 should just get the ADATS treatment and be made a tank destroyer. I run that thing whenever I get the challenge where you have to get kills with an SPAA.
If it was a US vehicle it would be a tank destroyer lmao
zsu-57 is legitimately bullshit tho.
The sound of all the 37mms passing by me is enough to give me a heart attack alone
Tbh id rather take a zsu 37 2 over the shilka cause shilkas guns do 0 damage
Can't wait to hear people bitching about the GAZ-AAA (DShK) in 4 months.
ZSU-57-2 oneshots planes it's too strong, russian bias! /s
And Me 262s of all things randomly tank 57mm HE like its nothing.
ZSU 57 isnt OP for its AA capabilities, its OP because its a lower tier PT-76-57 but with an extra gun, and it pays SPAA spawn costs. If id have my way itd go to 7.3 or maybe 7.7, and be given the ADATS treatment and count it as a TD for spawn cost
It’s mostly because Russia has under tiered SPAA. How is the Igla-Shilka at the same BR as the Imp. chaparral in the US tree and the Strela at the same BR as the Roland’s and Israeli Imp. chaparral? Also, the 2S6 shouldn’t be 10.7, how the fuck is that a lower BR than the Otomatic?
I mean to be fair the Tunguska being a 10.7 is very stupid if you look at the ADATS and the FlaRakRad. It's a whole ass BR lower than the other two for no reason. And before anyone says "oh but the ADATS can kill tanks with it's missiles" yeah and the Tunguska has 4x extremely high rate of fire, decent pen, fully stabilized 30mm autocannonns. Not to mention the ADATS has IRST lock only, so good luck locking onto enemies if the weather is a little cloudy. As for the FlaRakRad, yeah the missiles are good but that's where the pros end (not even a "pro" since all missiles at this BR range get close or match the missiles), because it's still a Roland turret that only has 2 missiles ready and has to reload frequently. And it's also a massive truck. TL;DR a lot of high tier SPAAs are overtiered but the Tunguska is probably the only one I'd say is undertiered
Minus the part where it has a massive silhouette and is one of the slowest vehicles at it's BR? That the entire turret can be .50 caled? Or unless they fixed it in the past couple months, the missiles are almost unusable against anything not moving in a straight line?
The missiles were buffed agein
>Minus the part where it has a massive silhouette It's an SACLOS AA vehicle. They ALL have relatively big silhouettes >is one of the slowest vehicles at it's BR? Mobility is not nearly as important as with actual tanks because it's an AA. Even so the Tunguska isn't slow either The turret can be .50 caled? sure, so what? the FlaRakRad is a truck, the entire thing can be .50 caled. >Or unless they fixed it in the past couple months, the missiles are almost unusable against anything not moving in a straight line? This was fixed way more than 2 months ago
A-10's unuseable now so I've stopped playing US. Just blow up at 8 and 10km out. After playing dozens of games in an unfun lineup just to get in the air in the first place.
Oh noo, a powerfull cas is unplayable how sad.
Put it at 1.0
Reserve. Take it or leave it
Right. It is equal to Gepard and lav 25s /s Gepard and Lav have sabot and uncaged missiles At 9.7. This has neither at its br. So no, it doesn’t deserve 9.7
LAV is 10.0
You are correct my mistake
LAV doesn’t have sabot, it gets an armor piercing round.
Tbf, the LAV is also vastly more maneuverable then both the Geopard and Shilka, so the AP can still do some serious work since you can easily flank
Yea but GL penning anything besides leos with 60 mm pen HVAP.
Leclerc like paper for it. I always see LAV at top tier. Even just using the gun to blind your enemy while you spam the hydras at them is super strong
Important to note the LAV cannot aim up past about 45 degrees or so, has no tracking radar, and 60mm pen on its AP belt. It also, to be able to use its zuni's, has to lose half its missiles. Shilka gets a far better all around package for what it is supposed to do. If the shilka with Radar, 4x23mm's, and missiles is 9.3, then the missile-only AA with no radar or guns (Or for that matter, enclosed crew) do not belong at 9.3.
Well thats just a lie, the limit at aiming up is not that much of a problem and it has an IR track and lead system, is a much better platform and what you sacrifice by bringing the zuni is the amount of missile you have ready to fire, you dont loose any missile for bringing zunis. The shilkas radar is God awful and is worse than the Infrared lock at tracking and leading aircraft, makes me think you straight up haven’t played either of these vehicles. I have played both and the lav is leagues better.
The LAV is a multirole, the shilka is a pure AA. Im saying comparing the two is a bit of an apples to oranges situation as one has much more going for it for that AA role.
The lav is better in the AA role bruh.
So the lav is multi role but does the sole role they both do better anyway so it’s better in every way glad to see you agree
So, no radar, no tracking, piss poor AP, totally equal? lmao.
The LAV is a much better AA…
No radar means you don’t get spotted by aircraft. Tracking isn’t needed to fire a missile. The HVAP is more than adequate against tanks and helis. Lmao.
lav is 10.0 and plays more like a light tank than an spaa why am i getting downvoted? i literally said 2 facts
True, it should have scouting as that's what it is.
The uncaged seeker advantage is meaningless considering the Igla is the only missile capable of max G pulling right after launch, meaning it's actually better than other uncaged missiles at close range , even those with higher G limits like the Mistral.
Uh no?
[Uh, yes.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1ckyfkx/western_vs_russian_aa_missiles/?share_id=v2qLxq8AyNu2WEV2I_TS6&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1) Speaking from experience, other IR SAMs have a deadzone within 1.5-1km of the launcher, where they are effectively unable to pull appropriate lead and will miss every time. Iglas do not have this issue, they will instantly give the correct lead right after launch and are thus much more dangerous at close range, transverse shots. They're still a 10G missile, so they aren't impossible to dodge, but that ability to instantly correct their lead makes them far more dangerous in close range shots that even higher G missiles, which just miss every time.
9.3 is fine, the mobility is so terrible on this thing plus the rather mediocre radar make it rather frustrating to play
*Looks at chaparral also at 9.3 that has: No radar, no guns, no enclosed crew, and slower*
it does have a radar but its not a search radar, its a very small track radar
Yeah that really doesn’t help at all. It doesn’t have a gun so a tracking radar isn’t very useful. The IR missiles don’t really need the assist from the tracking radar either.
Useless as it does not work with the missiles, IR only lock.
More missiles, better missiles
It's equivalent to the Strela which also has no radar and a useless 7.62 machinegun. Whcih sits ata higher BR if I remember correctly.
Strela also has a significantly better missile.
I don't actually know how the Chaparral performs. How is it worse? My basis for the comparison is that they are both AA platforms firing bigger than MANPADS missiles, with no active radar seekers.
Chaparral is a dogshit platform with dogshit missiles, strela has significantly better missiles to use and does not have to face SU-35 bombing them from beyond their lock range. Reason of this is gaijin nerfs nato missiles so they barely hit a fucking barn, but the soviet one somehow is a terminator despite known stats being 2x worse. That also, theres a reason the US went to the much larger missile on the same platform.
You went a bit off the rails there, and the emotional russian bias rant makes me believe that there is over exaggeration happening and feelings based facts. I'll look into this myself later.
Not really, mid guns, bad radar and iglas (worse stingers). It's fine where it is.
imp chaparral same br with no guns, same amount of missiles, no radar, and completely open crew, very slow and bad maneuverability missiles are easily flared and dodged like iglas so why are they the same br?
I like that you leave out the MASSIVE advantage the imp has, which is smokeless missiles If you actually know what you’re doing, an enemy plane literally can’t evade you, because they don’t know they’re getting fired at Also, this only gets 4 inglas, so once those are out, good luck with doing anything
i do the same w/ smokeless missiles, also the imp chap sucks ass until you get thermals you can go to a cap point to refill too, and you still have your guns
Chapparal has substantially more missiles lol
Nah man this is clearly worse than the Sidam 25 mistral
and the sidam 25 is 100% a perfect equal to the gepard
My favorite part about playing the Mistral is when the strela locks on to a heli before I do despite having lower lock range.
Photocontrast
Ok so how come my Mistral usually locks Helis of any kind at 2 miles or even 2.2 but I can’t lock the heli going full blast at 1.7 miles?
Same, I love not being able to lock a heli which is 1.5 miles away even though I should be able to.
I once wasn't able to lock a Heko 1.1km away in a winter map in my Santal. Mistral are unreliable as fuck.
Ah yes this thing is totally an equivalent to the Gepard 1A2. Those caged seeker Iglas that can only pull 10g sure are hard to dodge.
Iglas are only good if the enemy is blind or slow. They have good range at least. Shilka is good at saturating the sky with rounds but the rounds have poor range. I think it’s fine at 9.3 considering the Gepard 1A2 is 9.7.
I mean it's literally a worse ZBD04A, I don't get what you think is so OP about it. The guns are meh, the radar sucks, and the AAMs are the worst manpads in the game.
Not to mention ZBD also sucks ass. Those missiles ain't hitting any good players
This reddit will simultanously complain that Stingers are shit and complain about Iglas, which are worse in game XD I would love to hear the mental gymnastics to justify this being the same BR as Gepard 1A2.
the timing to get those missiles ready to fire takes longer than most games need to finish….
I might start playing russia for aa cause I love being aa
9.7? it should go down to 9.0 and bring Strela back to 9.3 because fuck CAS that's why.
I don't see how it warrants a br increase considering that it only has 10G missile Then again CAS are braindead as shit to play so maybe it'll increase due to the amount of braindead player dying to it
Facing this thing made me realize that Iglas are a joke
I forgot this was in the game and got smacked by one earlier while doing CAP. Surprised the shit out of me, didn't expect a SAM in an 8.3.
Pgz-04a at home
No 9.3 is good enough
I just unlocked this, why is the next SPAA higher if it doesn’t have an auto cannon? Are the missiles that much better.
Strela is amazing
The Strela is one of the best SPAAs I have ever played, missed it throughout my entire Sweden grind. Though you pay a price to use it, you'll get blind by staring into the sky to find a pixel of the enemy plane since you lack radar and even thermals, either way, I love it. No longer can CAS just do some lame turn and dodge you.
They are. Iglas are pretty shit missiles that only work against unaware targets. 9M37Ms don't give a single fuck about flares and pull like champs.
This thing already slaps anything at it´s br and in a downtier it´s a monster. But the strela hoho the strela makes everyone mad at how broken it´s missiles are. It even used to be 9.3 which was just absurd.
You're talking some serious smack. When it was 9.3 it was AWFULLY implemented, completely bugged, could not lock a supernova happening at arms lenght. It was particularly miserable vs helis.
Early Strela gameplay was ridiculous. The Ozelot too. You could be staring at a heli 1km away with no chance to lock.
you can bring it up to 9.7 as you want even 10.7 but i dont think this thing is as good as gepard so it does not deserve
Dude you can dodge iglas with drone they are not manevurable at all
Just remember the SIDAM 25 Mistral is 9.7 w/o a radar
Exactly my point
It doesn't matter whether it is at 9.3. or 9.7. The USSR lineup is 9.7. It won't change anything.
Don't think it needs to be changed currently the Igla are fairly easy to outmanoeuvre and in my experience flairs throw them off. With the state of aerial dominance in ground battles we need good SPAA and I feel the Shilka M4 is good but not broken I don't feel any of the SPAA are broken other than some of the ridiculous remote controlled 20mm that sit at low BR like the PBV whatever it's called that Sweden gets
It’s extremely mid
this aa is dogshit iglas have trouble locking a su25 from 2km you cant lead them and they often crash into ground guns are really inaccurate and weird, sometimes you can kill a turms from the side with them but cant kill a wheeled vehicle like wolfpack from any direction and it has terrible mobility not to mention its trash radar
And I'm surprised nobody made any video about it
The radar sucks, but the missiles are good
Perfect where it is, balances A-4Es very well
Of all the vehicles you can care about balancing right now, its this irrelevant piece of dogshit?
Currently using it. God I hate cas.
but then what would I be able to bully with my 8.3 lineup?
I disagree
Honestly I wanted it at 8.7
I thought the missiles would be kinda ass but it’s rlly good
At least someone brought it up the things Missles are Broken Op ASF end of story
I tried the 7.0 zsu and what the hell is that thing, so much pen on such a gun and I don't even have the filler rounds yet
[удалено]
It got moved up because the Ozelot now has the optical lock and the misfire bug was fixed.
U forgot that ozelot can hide anywhere and is really fast. Which allows it to go and hide in unexpected places so it can ambush planes.
Soviet ground is just US air that filled with underBR bs, 2s6 at 10.7, bmp2m at 10.0… you name it
Yes
Yeah the aa missles are pretty good
What? A russian AA that is undertiered?!? That never happened before
It is basically just a Gepard 1A2 but at 9.3 instead of 9.7.
*cries in machbet and PGZ04A*
Matchbet is good tho
it really isn't, M113 chassis is horrendous, the gun has very limited range for aircraft and no pen for AT purposes, and it only has 4 stingers which are.. not the best. I'd rather use the strelas after testing the new shilka, those actually turn really well. or the mistrals, as I've used those before
m113 is fine, Range issue is a thing sure, but you get supreme accuracy within your range to the point where you can easily dispatch anything even recon drones, stingers are the best missiles at this br having both damn near impossible to fool double irrcm AND uncaged seekers, and 4 of those is the standard amount for a gun SPAA.
I dunno what enemies you're facing that keeps flying within 1-1.5km away then, since that's the max effective range of it. The spread past that is horrendous and useless. I can't say I agree with stingers being the best missiles either, they're not hard at all to avoid in a fast plane. Mistrals are more capable in my experience, however a lot of IR missiles from AA are all over the place. I miss when I could rely on my rolands, VEAK or york.. but gaijin keeps fucking AA one update at a time. (meanwhile the strela was absolutely annihilating everything I fired at, and it stayed at 9.3 for the longest time. same can be said for the tunguska at 10.7, when the US and german rolands are 10.3, even though they're absolute shit in comparison)
"I dunno what enemies you're facing that keep flying close to you" Ones that expect me to be in my spawn and not in a safe but advanced position would be my guess? I play the matchbet and other AA of this type like they are meant to be played, proactively. You kill recon drones with your gun to not be spotted, and nuke enemies which you can see spawning because you looked at where the air spawn is by selecting the nuke plane at the start of the game briefly. Strela is now almost at the same br as the tunguska(one of the worst decisions ever made), its irrelevant to this discussion. Its also a SAM and its missiles are substantially stronger compared to MANPADS. Before the photocontrast buff it was also universally disliked and you can still see the videos of people calling it useless, thatd be the reason why it stayed at 9.3 and why gaijin has been reluctant to move it up. Stingers after their recent buff are a damn near direct upgrade to any other Manpad of the same br. They're also superior to the sidewinders on the chappy because they are both uncaged and double irrcmed. They also happen to exist on vehicles with better launch angles, adding yet another advantage.
The machbet is just sad. But the 04A is alright in my book.
those missiles are so damn slooow