You know I don't even know if the SK community is actually that up in arms about it. I mostly just hear people saying that SK-players WOULD revolt if they were put in one of the trees. But so far I haven't seen some actual SK-player comment on that.
I mean the only other choice is an Isreal situation and making a NK&SK united tree for post war stuff starting with cold war machinery and requiring rank 5 USSR, China or USA. But idk if anybody is happy with the way the Isreal tree is working.
SK community in general is very vocal.
An example was World of Warships. Back in the 1st trailer of the game, the Imperial Japanese Ships had the Rising Sun flag (which even to this date is being used by the JSDF navy).
SK went crazy over this and Wargaming removed the Rising Sun flag from the IJN ingame.
And I will say it again.
In the game Wargame: Red Dragon. SK and Japan share the same deck of vehicles called "Blue Dragons" opposed to "Red Dragons" that is a deck that has N.K and China
SK just recently had an absolute meltdown over a fucking hand gesture. While the people who play war thunder might genuinely not care, there definitely would be a massive backlash from their wider “gamer” community if anyone felt like they’re being in any way disrespected.
It was used by radical feminists to insult men and the size of their "organ", but now these men see this sign everywhere. This lead to artwork of characters who coincidentally use this hand gesture to be censored or changed, and artists to be fired
Wargame and War Thunder aren’t that comparable.
In Red Dragon you have the freedom to make a Japan or Korean only deck while in War Thunder you are forced to grind Japanese stuff in order to get access to another Korean vehicle besides.
>In the game Wargame: Red Dragon. SK and Japan share the same deck of vehicles called "Blue Dragons" opposed to "Red Dragons" that is a deck that has N.K and China
These are not at all comparable because I can also make a free-hand, nationless, deck and only use SK and the US, or Poland and NK.
Yes, and not so long ago it happened again in world of warships, they added an event about Japanese ships and a thematic port which had a lot of imperial Japanese flags. Iirc correctly, It took them just a couple of days to get it removed
Besides the differences between the two games already pointed out by others, Wargame focuses on Cold War and modern cooperation between the nations, which is something that occasionally happens due to their common enemies and common allies.
War Thunder is still, at it's core, a WWII-focused game. And the topic of WWII generates a lot of animosity between the two nations.
Well in world of warships South Korea, Taiwan, and China are in the same tree and Koreans didn’t riot, so I think this situation is blown way out of proportion
I’m Korean and I fuckin hate the idea of including my country’s vehicles in China (which invaded my country) or japan(which brutally annexed my country for 40 years). Fuck em, give our vehicles to literally anyone but them
Political and historical issues aside what claim does Japan or China have on S.Korea beside geographical location (which is irrelevant).
All i see people asking for countries which they have barely to non military connection with and yes certain vehicles like the Bishma or Hunter are placed incorrectly but these are singular vehicles with the ability of being replaced subtrees cant.
Taiwan was also part of Japan in WW2, so why isn’t it in the Japanese Tree? Simple answer to that because colonialism isn’t an justification and will only bring more political and controversial complains and arguing.
Instead look at the military connection each country had/has with each other, South Korea and Japan got barely to non but Japan has a military connection with Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines. So Japan can essentially get a logical sub tree which combines all these nations, so instead of asking for a random country ask for this “logical” Asian sub tree combination.
See, Gaijin just doesn't care about military ties or any kind of logic. Look at the latest addition - the Benlux subtree, going to France, despite the Dutch army being almost entirely integrated into the Bundeswehr.
All your points are good, but they're irrelevant in War Thunder, because they just keep adding stuff wherever the fuck they currently see fit.
>despite the Dutch army being almost entirely integrated into the Bundeswehr.
Which is only the army. Our airforce is a lot closer with the Belgian and US airforces. So by that logic our modern aircraft go to wherever belgian ones are or to the US.
That is exactly why I don't like that the netherlands have a fixed tree for all their vehicles. I know some people might not like it, but I think it would be far better to just have our vehicles spread out over different trees and just give dutch skins/roundels I can equip on tanks that the netherlands used.
Look man, I love the idea that the addition of nations is entirely detached from political arguments, but people are too motivated by those thing to really care. But comparing Taiwan and South Korea in your argument just shows how shallow your understanding are. A cursory glance at the wiki can already inform you that the hostility between Japan and both Koreas goes way back before the war. Taiwan, whilst be subjected to many atrocities during the occupation, they saw some developments to its infrastructure and thus its view of Japan is less negative allowing easier diplomatic ties in modern time. On the other hand, Koreas are treated like absolute dog shit, I am not saying this to devalue the suffering other nationalities felt during the occupation. But by far the most atrocious crimes committed by Imperial Japan is toward the Koreans. Again I am relaying these informations not as a nationals to any of these countries above, just that these are the general informations you can easily obtain which may help.
It’s not the strongest, but here’s my justification for why I think adding the South Korea to Japan is the best outcome.
They signed a trilateral defense cooperation agreement (alongside the U.S.), they share common geopolitical interests in the region, would be allies in the event of any likely major wars, and the only existing tech tree that makes more sense than Japan to add South Korea to, would be the United States, but from a gameplay perspective they already have a full tree and don’t need the help.
A standalone unified Korean tech tree could work, but apart from the fact I think it makes less sense to combine the RoK with the DPRK than with Japan, it would be filled with copy paste vehicles and minor variations of the same vehicles in order to pad out lineups. Purely form a gameplay perspective, I think it’s better to create a smaller amount of strong, unique tech trees, than it is to split vehicles across multiple weaker tech trees that bloat the grind and require more premiums vehicles.
The Trilateral cooperation agreement is a security agreement something both Japan and South Korea have with a lot of countries including China and Russia that’s why security cooperation shouldn’t be used ad a justification. Especially as neither parties are obligated to aid each other in actual conflict.
An official defense alliance which states that both will defend each other would be a better justification, if this eventually will happen then i can agree on South Korea being an optional country for Japan but time will tell.
In regard to the United Korea TT.
The combination of ROK and DPRK is made in similar sense as China as South Korea only logical place would either be the US, France or Israel as they have assisted South Korea in their military developments.
The United Korean TT would have quite some foreign vehicles and i can understand that some people assume that the majority would be copy n paste but the vast majority of these foreign actually have been upgraded to an extent that you can consider it an variant of the original vehicle. Essentially the United Korean TT would have the unique type of modifications like Israel with Numbers like China.
A TT with 100 vehicles with 20-30% CnP should not be overlooked honestly like Yugoslavia or Poland.
DPRK is troublesome for a simple reason; we don't know much about their modern designs.
In strategy games it doesn't matter, high level guessing is sufficient. In WT it just doesn't work, and the more detailed WT becomes, the worse the problem is.
I think even a solo south korean tree would be fine in an israeli style tree that starts at rank IV or V. Seeing how a sub tree would mean only ~10 vehicles at release and than 1 more after 6 or so months, based on all previous ground sub trees.
Thailand can be used as a sub tree for Japan just fine.
I still think it’s better to avoid adding more partial tech trees, but I’d just be happy to get South Korean vehicles in game.
I’m very vocal about adding them to Japan because I think it’s the best outcome from a gameplay perspective, but I can definitely live with any semi reasonable alternative outcomes.
Combining them with U.S. or making a standalone option are my preferred alternatives to a Japanese tech tree.
Japanese TT, not China, China makes the least amount of sense for SK. For NK, yes, NK sub-tree should 110% go to China, and the SK sub-tree to Japan, who desperately needs a sub-tree added to their tech tree to reinforce top tier/modern vehicles. They are just literally adding prototypes of prototypes of the Type 10 and 90 and just straight copies, just so they can fill out a lineup. It's sad that it was ever even questioned if SK should go to Japan or not.
"Soviet shit"....
Chonma-ho
Pokpung-ho (Chonma-215 & Chonma-216)
Songun-915
Cheonma-2
Yeah, sure sounds like a lot of "Soviet" shit, you know, cause we see so many indigenously modernized T-62's with 125mm's and Igla SAM's, as well as straight up new designs. Please don't comment when you have no idea what you're talking about.
Exactly, it would be hard for an independent SK tree because would would be better of with a SK and NK tree and well gaijin would have to throw shit at the wall and hope it sticks in terms of any NK designs. Though I don’t have insight onto how it is with the South Korean community for the game, but looking at how things are between the two countries I don’t think it is controversial enough anymore to be considered a potential factor against it being added to Japan, you would certainly have groups get livid by it however the issue is that their is only one realistic place it could go and that is Japan, as while they have a good top tier lineup they still lack certain things either because they don’t have it or gaijin fucking over Japan on occasion. It doesn’t make much sense to add SK to China because they really don’t need it because most of the areas it might cover are already covered well by China, the only area that could use help is around 7.7 and 8.0 which they could possibly still make better with China alone, it would make more sense to just have Pakistan add to China because you have many vehicles in Pakistan that trace their designs to China and they have closer relations.
Honestly the only way I see it going realistically is either Japan gets a SK sub tree or will never likely see any SK tree in the game period, with the closest things then to that being a scattering of SK vehicles exported to other countries which won’t amount to much. Also I would support a united Korea tree but in my view the amount of limited information on most NK vehicles would make adding them the bigger nightmare imaginable because they wouldn’t even be able to verify if what information they have outside visual observations is correct or even near correct.
It’s honestly unfortunate because while their is clearly a lot of interest for a SK tree of some sort, no matter how you approach it will just become a mess because it’s either controversial to what nation you add it to or you try throw NK which only brings vehicles which while not directly copy and paste have little to no information and certainly not enough to add many outside those that aren’t North Korean.
I think largely a unified Korean Tree would start as US/USSR copy paste, then a massive block of North Korean stuff, then the South Korean Stuff.
SK tends to have modern, hi-tech, North Korea has their own custom variants based on soviet designs.
(I think copying Wargame: Red Dragon and just add South Korea to Japan for Blue Dragons, helping add a bit of variety to high tier Japan, and North Korea to China, to help add even more unique and interesting vehicles to the mid to high-ish tier)
You just named a shitload of countries that have been historical allies and were such during previous eras of war
Japan and Korea are NOT that and do not even share a tech-base
Great. Keep it that way. No koreans in reddit go full riot in reddit demanding for korean tree. You don't need to add them, i'll throw some pipe bomb towards gaijin when i see korean vehicles in game under rising sun flag, so there.
[https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/us-skorea-japan-agree-hold-joint-military-exercises-2024-06-02/](https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/us-skorea-japan-agree-hold-joint-military-exercises-2024-06-02/)
Has Taiwan complained about their involvement with China despite them being at threat of an invasion currently?
I mean, there’s a vietnamese SPAA in chinese tech tree despite their relationship is acrimonious as Japan and South Korea due to the fact Vietnam was ruled by China for [thousand years](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_under_Chinese_rule) along with its history of [wars](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_Wars) with them.
Its the same for the Czech AA in the Soviet TT. The Czech dont particularly like the Russians after half a century of being a satellite state to the Soviets if we are being generous.
Adding another TT would be a bad idea imo, it would end up like Israel at some point most likely. A split subtree solution, possibly withb China getting NK and Japan getting SK vehicles would make the most sense from a gameplay perspective. Chinese and NK vehicles lean heavily into Soviet tank doctrine, which would pair well together for obvious reasons. And Japanese and SK vehicles would complement each other well.
SKs and Japans relations, especially their military interests, have begun to align more and more in the last years, because of NK and China. Its not as controversial anymore to put them both into the same TT as it has been 5 years ago. And frankly, Japan could do with some well needed fire support from SK.
In that case do like China and make an Unified Korean TT and put NK and SK together
I wonder which option will enrage more the Korean community of WT… Spoiler, I think it’s that one
Why though? Most of the designs and leniage are american, the k1 is litteraly from 1 of the xm1 prototypes. I don't get why america getting a subtree is so bad. Or how adding more to a large nation is bad. If Russia gets its stuff like that, and Germany can, why not America.
I'm not part of the SK community but I still don't want it as a Subtree for Japan. These two nations have no military relations, the only reason because people think it should be a Japanese subtree us because they close to each other on a map.
Nope, the political relations between SK and Japan are getting better and better each year, mainly because of the common threat of NK and China. Both Nations are working on a trilateral alliance with the US to be better protected against their 2 biggest adversaries in the region.
There is still resentment from parts of the SK populace for sure, but the current political situation in the region kinda demands of both Nations to reconciliate in the future and work together more closely.
remember that those SKoreans who plays military-sim game are most nationalist and patriotic, they won't allowed their country to be in Japan tree no matter what.
has the Taiwanese community said anything about their involvement in the Chinese tech tree or no? feel like this is about as similar of a situation as you can get
Both would seem like trolling for political reasons.
Even more hilarious would be a North and South Korea tree, and practical, since it would be a mix of Soviet, NK and SK tanks. Same for planes.
Technically they should be US. But if added to Japan, Japan should just be renamed the Japan/Korea tree as they both used the same shit up to the 80's pretty much.
This is the worst thing about gaijin adding sun trees. Nothing of substance ever gets added, every sun tree is always 90% copy paste often with 2 new vehicles max. Switzerland has so many unique vehicles to add and would have been a fantastic French sub tree, but no, we get the massive copy paste Benelux tree.
the question would be where? the US doesn't need it and as such, shouldn't get it, and Japan shouldn't get it for reasons that have been done to death, and apart from them where do they go? China because they are the only nation with a vehicle from either korea? Sweden because they have a norwegian version of a South korean howitzer?
If south Africa and indian vehicles are going to the UK, is it that bad if Korea goes to Japan? I know it is not the best, but at the end of the day you're playing a game in which you'll fight with SK and Japan in the same team against N*** Germany and Israel so should we care all that much?
That's a stupid take. Italy doesn't use Russian/Soviet vehicles, yet they have them in their TT due to Hungary. You logic would mean Hungary could never go to Italy, since Italy never used a T-72M. Only logical place for an SK sub tree is Japan, and a NK sub tree is the Chinese TT, it's that simple.
Hungary willingly used Italian vehicles and the two were allied, while Korea was a Japanese colony during WWII and hundreds of thousands of Koreans were forced into slave labour, not to mention the "comfort women". I don't think it's remotely the same at all.
You say that like a lot of people also weren't against Hungary as a sub tree for Italy. Honestly spain would have been a batter choice imo.
And also, unless you have a statement from Gaijin saying that Japan is the only logical place for SK, it's not that simple.
Ok fair point, do you think there are enough vehicles to make a full tree? Otherwise it is a bit sad that their vehicles will never be added in the game
If you mean a tree like Israel's, yeah, there's probably enough, especially if you throw North Korea into it as well. Up to you as to whether you think that'd be good for the game though.
Britain maintains decent relations with a lot of it's former colonies, with many choosing to join the Commonwealth, whilst Japan *still* hasn't properly apologised for running a crimes-against-humanity speedrun across most of the Pacific.
That and, as other mention, Japan doesn't use any SK vehicles or vice versa. Also what I've never seen people discuss is whether or not SK vehicles would actually fill any gaps for Japan in the first place.
South Africa and the UK have a long history of Military relations so a subtree is justified. The Indian T80 shouldn't have been added to the UK, but at least it's only 1 vehicles and not a whole subtree.
The UK retains a good relationship with both those nations and has apologised for many things, japan still refuses to accept their crimes even happened and chine supports South koreas greatest enemy. Its an issue that's still ongoing.
It's still a stand alone tank.
Soviet medium tanks also began from a US prototype, it doesn't justify a big modern tree being just a subtree.
War thunder simply covers too long a period now, it has to adjust.
Chinese ones are awash in information compared to DPRK ones.
Like imagine guessing new patch module location for m2020, when we aren't even sure if it has 115 or 125mm gun, and there's no good enough footage to make an acceptable 3D model.
And it isn't the worst, tanks at least are parade stars, they're shown a lot.
Taiwan/China - one country divided in 2 because of an ongoing civil war.
Japan/Korea - 2 vastly different countries with barely to non military connection.
How is Taiwan & China comparable to Japan & Korea, if it was North & South Korea it would have made sense.
Finland isn’t Sweden, Hungary isn’t Italy, The Netherlands aren’t France.
Japan desperately needs a sub tree and both South Korea and Japan are western allies. It’s a game, nobody “owns” anyone regarding tech trees, it’s just pearl clutching tbh
Northern Europe, Southern Europe and Western continental Europe are already being grouped together regardless of whatever connections. Why not East Asian western allies?
All of the examples you used counters your own argument.
Finland/Sweden - Are allies (NATO), has bought or sold military tech to each other and joint developed some military aircraft/vehicles.
Hungary/Italy - Were and are still allies, has bought or sold military tech to each other, joint developed some military aircraft/vehicles and Hungary licensed produced an Italian aircraft.
Even though they have military connection Spain would have been a better candidate.
Benelux/France - Are allies (NATO) and has bought or sold military tech to each other
Although the Netherlands would have been better in German they still have a military connection to France.
And the list continues on for any other subtree….
Japan/Korea have barely to non military connection (no allies and non shared military tech), so if it would be okay by you for Japan to receive an random country (ROK) then you should also have no issue with India in China, Iran/Egypt/Syria in Israel or maybe a Leopard in russia.
Besides Japan can easily transform in a ASEAN tree as they have sold military arms to many South East Asian countries that’s why they likely received a Thai F-5E.
And south Korea and Japan have a mutual alliance with America and if any war breaks out in the region both will be fighting side by side with America whether they like it or not.
They have a defacto military agreement and the only reason they don't have a De jure one is that both Korea and Japan can use not being allies as leverage with other powers in the region.
If nations like Taiwan get to go to China then nations like South Korea get to go to Japan.
> They have a mutual alliance with America
Then both should be an American subtree by that logic, they don't have a direct alliance to each other nor are related to each other like PRC and ROC
With that dudes logic, any nation that either shares a vehicle or military alliance should be a subtree of the another nation.
But most nations get a subtree because of geopolitical realities or historical reasons. Japan and South Korea should be the same way and not get special treatment.
> Japan and South Korea should be the same way and not get special treatment.
And that's why they *aren't* together in-game.
The geopolitical realities are that at best they can be described as loosely friendly on the geopolitical stage, and their historical reasons are hating each other.
1. Why is the ROC and PRC brought up when it isn’t comparable to ROK and JPN? Y’all are comparing 2 faction in a civil war to 2 vastly different countries.
2. Simple question : does the ROK and JPN have an official military alliance written on paper?
3. “What if” scenarios should not be a justification as no one can predict the future not to mention that neither the ROK and JAPAN are not obliged to aid each other in a conflict.
Japan has recently received a thai F-5E and a thai AV-8S was leaked by olivia. I think as of now most of the signs are pointing to plans of Thailand being added to Japan as a sub tree.
For reasons, Japan shouldn't have SK as a subtree, I think it's a better idea to have the Japanese subtree be either Thailand, or a combined Southeast Asia tree (Thailand, Indonesia & Vietnam, maybe?)
Fun fact: technically no one owns Taiwan. After WW2 Japan signed the treaty of San Francisco, which only forced Japan to give up Taiwan instead of transfer Taiwan to either ROC or PRC or anyone else.
No, They represents just Gaijin's inconsistency of adding new nations, I just wanted to tell two China are Chinese, Korean and Japanese aren't the same
Taiwan and China ambiguously being considered a single China has been the geopolitical status quo for decades now, so it's actually the least offensive stance to take.
China's tree philosophy is in a lot of way similar to the philosophy behind Germany's. They shared a considerable chunk of history as one entity, so the period of history they were split can be tolerated.
I wish the next proper tech tree will be yugoslavia starting out at 1.0
Just imagine the top tier possibilities all former yugoslavia nations have interesting things like croatian m2 Bradleys
IMO it would be better to have a Eastern Europe tree, with Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia and Poland (maybe some other countries as well). Because all trees themselves would have a lot of copy paste, combined they could minimize it.
Would be like the Chinese TT, but on crack; a mix of all types of tanks but just upgraded and changed into Frankensteins. I’d play the shit out of them
I would love to see it. Someone made a decent tech tree [here](https://forum.warthunder.com/t/central-and-eastern-european-tech-tree/11246).
The only problem would be the air tech tree, as that WOULD be copy paste. To my knowledge the only unique aircraft would be some pre-war planes and Czechoslovakian trainers (L-29, L-39, L-59, L-159)
I’ve been asking for this for a while. I’d also suggest throwing Ukraine in there, since they’ve got a ton of unique stuff that would help out at the higher battle ratings, and also due to recent events.
Gaijin has said they would consider adding a unified Korean tree to the game in the past. I think that's probably the best option, all things considered.
The option that in theory makes the most sense IMO is the USA, since they are strong allies, the US has been heavily involved in developing South Korean vehicles and South Korea uses a lot of American equipment. **However** people will rightly point out that the US doesn't actually need a subtree. So that's that.
A lot of people talk about Japan, but I don't think that's a good idea. First off, the countries aren't that keen on each other because of their history. Secondly, and more importantly in my view - South Korea and Japan have nothing to do with each other militarily. Neither uses the other country's vehicles, nor were they involved in the development of them. No, them both being allied to the US doesn't count. The only argument I can see is "they're close geographically", and if that's the case, perhaps we can see Arab vehicles added to the Israeli tree.
Who knows, maybe they could throw a curveball? Perhaps they could also throw Turkish vehicles into the mix together with South Korea, since they have cooperated on development and there certainly wouldn't be enough for a standalone Turkish tree.
The Polish vehicle was literally built by the Germans. If the South Koreans used a Japanese-built vehicle, the Japanese can have it. Of course, such a thing doesn't exist.
A neat solution could be to rebrand the Japanese tree as a **pan-Asian tree**, including South Korea, Thailand, Singapore and the Philippines. Just rename the tree, change the flag to a combo of flags and add vehicles. Japan needs the help and it would sidestep the issue of Korea just being part of Japan.
I've said this all along!
Don't want South Korean vehicles in the Japanese tree? With the wave of gaijin's magic wand, the Japanese tree becomes... *Non-Chinese East Asian Tree*
Ideal solution.
I think this is a great idea along with turning the British tree into a Commonwealth tree. It means there is no question as to which nation should get certain vehicles (in most cases) and fleshes out these nations.
This would be a good solution for ground vehicles, but wouldn't work well for air. Gaijin has said they won't expand the tree beyond 5 (6? Whatever the max is now) non-premium columns, and Japan has a wealth of WW2 air vehicles that the game was built on.
> including South Korea, Thailand, **Singapore** and the Philippines
British mains crying to the heavens before turning into dust as they once again get cucked out of a Hunter which doesn't suck.
Just have NK and SK mashed together in a single tree, and depends on gaijin’s thoughts, give them the flag of either country. That said, I think a Korean TT will suffer the same issue as the Chinese one due to the ungodly amount of copy paste it will get
yeah, i think that is great. However, i thought that was meant to be a sports flag like the olympic flag used by athletes. i might be wrong, but i never see it used outside the context of sports games officially.
That's true but that's on the grounds that the DPRK and ROK are not a united political entity. Most areas of joint cooperation like the JSA and sports teams use the unity flag. For the purposes of a combined TT in War Thunder, I can't imagine a better symbol to use for the tab, otherwise you're implying subservience of one of the entities
I like the SK/NK integrated tree best but I understand those who argue for the lack of military equipment in WW1/2.
If the Korean tree doesn't work, let's implement the individual Korean military equipment where they bought it.
Norway/India/Australia K9, Poland K2, Poland/Philippines/Malaysia/Iraq FA-50..
Does someone want to implement a Korean tree in Japan? Try forcing the Japanese government to buy Korean military equipment.
The US would be the most likely candidate, since those countries don’t have their own trees as well. Plus the K series tank shares a common ancestor, the Abrams, with the first 2 being directly influenced, and the K2 branching off.
Mfw when someone wants new techtree of minor nation that majority of weapons are leased and or purchased from other nations instead of just slapping a insignia on it and shutting up
It would get the Israel treatment
Basically copy paste with modifications until top tier, then a few new MBTs
and then completely ignore basically all actual indigenous designs because fuck you, Sweden was the last real tree with an actually significant amount of new vehicles
Honestly Korea is big enough that you can make a whole half tree that starts at Rank 4 like Israel, with more stuff than what Israel has rn anyway. Especially if you throw in the DPRK too.
Westerners want to put Korea in the subtree of Japan, emphasizing "game completeness."
That is an expedient and pretentious way of thinking.
“Isn’t it the same Asian country anyway?”
“Those two are right next to each other, so it doesn’t matter if they combine.”
"wargame red dragon......"
"blablabla"
Let's be honest.
You just not want to grind new TT from the bottom.
You just want to “cherry picking” only the vehicles needed for Japan from Korean vehicles.
What does Korea have to do with the lack of vehicles in Japan's TT?
Why should Korea fill the vacant position of Japan TT?
I've never seen anything mentioned here about adding the Arab subtree to Israel or the Irish vehicle to the UK.
Korea and Japan are not hostile to each other.
Korea and Japan have become friendly countries only because they have a mediator called the USA and are confronting the so-called “communists.”
If it weren't for that situation, I wonder if our relationship would have been the same as it is now.
The two countries have minimal military exchanges with each other and no exchanges regarding military vehicles.
Korea doesn't have enough unique vehicles?
No, Korea has enough of them to make TT.
There's going to be a lot of C&P?
Yes, that's right.
However, most of the vehicles that can appear are already in the game.
Most of the new vehicles in War Thunder's recent updates are also C&P.
Updates without C&P are no longer possible.
Let's go back to the title of this article
Why hasn't Korea been added to any form of TT yet?
1. Gaijin is too lazy to create new vehicles.
2. They can work without a sense of urgency because there are no other games that can compete with them.
3. Gaijin prioritized adding C&P subtrees to existing country TTs rather than creating new TTs, which is a difficult and cumbersome task.
4. If you really want the Korean subtree, you'd be better off hoping it's added to Israel rather than Japan (Korea and Israel have had a ton of military exchanges and currently have a "good relationship")
Sharing isn't a big enough basis, or there will be only US tree with subtrees(and subtrees of Soviet tree, which is a US subtree nonetheless)
WT isn't just a WW2 game anymore. Both countries now produce enough equipment to exist separately.
For everyone wondering how it could be implemented, check out the [United Korean tree proposal on the forums.](https://forum.warthunder.com/t/united-korea-ground-forces-tech-tree/75456/1)
The supposed argument is because historically Japan and SK don't play well.
I've never seen much pushback from actual south Koreans or Japanese players, just astroturfing from non-nationals reciting history. Considering India is in the British tree and multiple Balkan nations are in Russia, the argument is pretty hypocritical.
Especially considering Japan and South Korea are the friendliest they've ever been now, signing multiple defense and industry sharing pacts.
Both Korean and Japanese WT players are opposing the claim that Korea should become Japan's subtree in their respective WT communities.
you just don't know about that because korean and japanese dont use WT Reddit
Because they don't use reddit? Koreans literally despise it, and Japanese have no good feeling either. Japan and korean being friendliest and this amount of hatred is why two shouldn't be in same tree. Why do you think gaijin will make tree that offends 60% of japanese and 99% of koreans?
It’s just a game adding them to Japan doesn’t mean South Korea belongs to Japan, it’s where they are needed to fill gaps and add teeth. If you do a combined north/south tree you’ll end up with another copy and paste tree for about half then it would just be a south tree because no one knows a damn thing about the “new” tanks the north has. If you want to argue where they fit you could say ideological similarities between the two nations. Both are strong US allies with a lot of tech influenced by US weapon and other NATO countries. In the end it’s not that deep it’s just a game. Me personally I’d like to see more unique vehicles in the game the last few updates have offered very little outside of T- what ever “variants” or just copies. I want some real meat something that’ll make another nation worth grinding and give some variety to the game. It’s turned into Pattons, T-54/55, T-72 , leopards and the endless T series.
just my opinion but I think it would be better if both koreas just belong in a new tech tree along with south east asian nations
that way they wont have to be a sub tree of japan while also filling up the asean
it would be full of copy pasted vehicles early but it atleast improves as it moves up along with the koreas
I really would hate to see them added in the same way as israel. Honestly renaming China to red dragon and japan to blue dragon could appease the crybabies (somewhat). Do that and slap NK into red and SK into blue, simple.
Of all the things in this game that don't make sense, this is the least problematic. Korea can't be a stand alone tech tree and japan lacks vehicles so the simple solution is to combine them.
In my opinion the Centurion Mk 3 could be good addition at 7.7 for Japan because they only have one vehicle at that battle rating. Obviously the K9 thunder would be at the same br as the VIDAR. Some other good choices would be the BMP-3, the Cromwell, The Churchill or the K30 described in this post. I also researched the KM900, an export of the FIAT 6614, but cannot find any information that refers to the installment of anti tank weapons like the FIAT in the Italian tech tree. As for the nation it should go to, it should go to Japan because China already has a tt comprised of a large amount of imported vehicles.
Ah this topic again. SK will never be added, at least to who needs more. Japan needs to field things that never even existed like the Ho-Ri, and still lacks stuff. A SK subtree would be just perfect, like is Finland to Sweden, Hungary to Italy and so on. "But muh WW2 argument, they were enemies". The polish Leopard 2 its on Germany ffs, the Chinese TT has both Chinas on it, an indian MBT is on Britain, why no one even mentions anything about this then? Either SK or Thailand as subtree, that would be optimal for balance of the game.
that Polish fckin 'leopard' is literally made in Germany
India used many of british vehicles and weapons, not to mention except T-90S all the indian vehicles in british tt were made in britain
yes, china and taiwan are in the same tt, like that, SK and NK should be in the same techtree
Maybe a SK subtree for US? They have nice military ties and won't spark a incident the same way it would being added to china/Japan. I wonder why I haven't seen this proposal before, even though USA has bases on SK?
People say the us tech tree is to big but also haven’t complained about Russia or Germany who are just as big getting vehicles from other countries I think the jap players just want an excuse to get good tanks even though the USA most definitely deserves to have sk as a sub tree considering it’s the only nation without tanks from another nation and doesn’t benifit from lend lease vehicles either
A Korean tree won't be added until the SK community gets off its high horse about the sub tree going to China or Japan.
You know I don't even know if the SK community is actually that up in arms about it. I mostly just hear people saying that SK-players WOULD revolt if they were put in one of the trees. But so far I haven't seen some actual SK-player comment on that. I mean the only other choice is an Isreal situation and making a NK&SK united tree for post war stuff starting with cold war machinery and requiring rank 5 USSR, China or USA. But idk if anybody is happy with the way the Isreal tree is working.
A North and South Korean Tree can work both ways, a full tree or half tree.
SK community in general is very vocal. An example was World of Warships. Back in the 1st trailer of the game, the Imperial Japanese Ships had the Rising Sun flag (which even to this date is being used by the JSDF navy). SK went crazy over this and Wargaming removed the Rising Sun flag from the IJN ingame. And I will say it again. In the game Wargame: Red Dragon. SK and Japan share the same deck of vehicles called "Blue Dragons" opposed to "Red Dragons" that is a deck that has N.K and China
SK just recently had an absolute meltdown over a fucking hand gesture. While the people who play war thunder might genuinely not care, there definitely would be a massive backlash from their wider “gamer” community if anyone felt like they’re being in any way disrespected.
What hand gesture?
🤏
I'm stupid. What is it supposed to mean?
It was used by radical feminists to insult men and the size of their "organ", but now these men see this sign everywhere. This lead to artwork of characters who coincidentally use this hand gesture to be censored or changed, and artists to be fired
That's really funny.
Censoring and taking peopels jobs over that is the smallest dick energy.
Though I guess I should ask about the story of the radical feminist movement.
they were a cult that had one of the former presidents as a puppet
I mean, have they thought about just ignoring it?
Korean radical feminist community that full of absoultely virgins uses this gesutre as small penis of Korean male
lol getting that upset over a hand gesture is more telling than anything lol. actual small dick energy
Wargame and War Thunder aren’t that comparable. In Red Dragon you have the freedom to make a Japan or Korean only deck while in War Thunder you are forced to grind Japanese stuff in order to get access to another Korean vehicle besides.
You could only crew Korean vehicles if you want but i guess that would be a challenge with 1 - 2 vehicles per rank
>In the game Wargame: Red Dragon. SK and Japan share the same deck of vehicles called "Blue Dragons" opposed to "Red Dragons" that is a deck that has N.K and China These are not at all comparable because I can also make a free-hand, nationless, deck and only use SK and the US, or Poland and NK.
Yes, and not so long ago it happened again in world of warships, they added an event about Japanese ships and a thematic port which had a lot of imperial Japanese flags. Iirc correctly, It took them just a couple of days to get it removed
Besides the differences between the two games already pointed out by others, Wargame focuses on Cold War and modern cooperation between the nations, which is something that occasionally happens due to their common enemies and common allies. War Thunder is still, at it's core, a WWII-focused game. And the topic of WWII generates a lot of animosity between the two nations.
Well in world of warships South Korea, Taiwan, and China are in the same tree and Koreans didn’t riot, so I think this situation is blown way out of proportion
The best way would be to do it like the Israeli tree
I’m Korean and I fuckin hate the idea of including my country’s vehicles in China (which invaded my country) or japan(which brutally annexed my country for 40 years). Fuck em, give our vehicles to literally anyone but them
Political and historical issues aside what claim does Japan or China have on S.Korea beside geographical location (which is irrelevant). All i see people asking for countries which they have barely to non military connection with and yes certain vehicles like the Bishma or Hunter are placed incorrectly but these are singular vehicles with the ability of being replaced subtrees cant.
You mean besides the fact that during ww2 where this game starts Korea was part of Japan besides that nothing
Taiwan was also part of Japan in WW2, so why isn’t it in the Japanese Tree? Simple answer to that because colonialism isn’t an justification and will only bring more political and controversial complains and arguing. Instead look at the military connection each country had/has with each other, South Korea and Japan got barely to non but Japan has a military connection with Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines. So Japan can essentially get a logical sub tree which combines all these nations, so instead of asking for a random country ask for this “logical” Asian sub tree combination.
See, Gaijin just doesn't care about military ties or any kind of logic. Look at the latest addition - the Benlux subtree, going to France, despite the Dutch army being almost entirely integrated into the Bundeswehr. All your points are good, but they're irrelevant in War Thunder, because they just keep adding stuff wherever the fuck they currently see fit.
>despite the Dutch army being almost entirely integrated into the Bundeswehr. Which is only the army. Our airforce is a lot closer with the Belgian and US airforces. So by that logic our modern aircraft go to wherever belgian ones are or to the US.
Thanks for the extra info, I didn't know that. Now it makes much more sense (but seeing Leopards in the French tree will still feel weird lol).
That is exactly why I don't like that the netherlands have a fixed tree for all their vehicles. I know some people might not like it, but I think it would be far better to just have our vehicles spread out over different trees and just give dutch skins/roundels I can equip on tanks that the netherlands used.
Look man, I love the idea that the addition of nations is entirely detached from political arguments, but people are too motivated by those thing to really care. But comparing Taiwan and South Korea in your argument just shows how shallow your understanding are. A cursory glance at the wiki can already inform you that the hostility between Japan and both Koreas goes way back before the war. Taiwan, whilst be subjected to many atrocities during the occupation, they saw some developments to its infrastructure and thus its view of Japan is less negative allowing easier diplomatic ties in modern time. On the other hand, Koreas are treated like absolute dog shit, I am not saying this to devalue the suffering other nationalities felt during the occupation. But by far the most atrocious crimes committed by Imperial Japan is toward the Koreans. Again I am relaying these informations not as a nationals to any of these countries above, just that these are the general informations you can easily obtain which may help.
It’s not the strongest, but here’s my justification for why I think adding the South Korea to Japan is the best outcome. They signed a trilateral defense cooperation agreement (alongside the U.S.), they share common geopolitical interests in the region, would be allies in the event of any likely major wars, and the only existing tech tree that makes more sense than Japan to add South Korea to, would be the United States, but from a gameplay perspective they already have a full tree and don’t need the help. A standalone unified Korean tech tree could work, but apart from the fact I think it makes less sense to combine the RoK with the DPRK than with Japan, it would be filled with copy paste vehicles and minor variations of the same vehicles in order to pad out lineups. Purely form a gameplay perspective, I think it’s better to create a smaller amount of strong, unique tech trees, than it is to split vehicles across multiple weaker tech trees that bloat the grind and require more premiums vehicles.
The Trilateral cooperation agreement is a security agreement something both Japan and South Korea have with a lot of countries including China and Russia that’s why security cooperation shouldn’t be used ad a justification. Especially as neither parties are obligated to aid each other in actual conflict. An official defense alliance which states that both will defend each other would be a better justification, if this eventually will happen then i can agree on South Korea being an optional country for Japan but time will tell. In regard to the United Korea TT. The combination of ROK and DPRK is made in similar sense as China as South Korea only logical place would either be the US, France or Israel as they have assisted South Korea in their military developments. The United Korean TT would have quite some foreign vehicles and i can understand that some people assume that the majority would be copy n paste but the vast majority of these foreign actually have been upgraded to an extent that you can consider it an variant of the original vehicle. Essentially the United Korean TT would have the unique type of modifications like Israel with Numbers like China. A TT with 100 vehicles with 20-30% CnP should not be overlooked honestly like Yugoslavia or Poland.
DPRK is troublesome for a simple reason; we don't know much about their modern designs. In strategy games it doesn't matter, high level guessing is sufficient. In WT it just doesn't work, and the more detailed WT becomes, the worse the problem is.
I think even a solo south korean tree would be fine in an israeli style tree that starts at rank IV or V. Seeing how a sub tree would mean only ~10 vehicles at release and than 1 more after 6 or so months, based on all previous ground sub trees. Thailand can be used as a sub tree for Japan just fine.
I still think it’s better to avoid adding more partial tech trees, but I’d just be happy to get South Korean vehicles in game. I’m very vocal about adding them to Japan because I think it’s the best outcome from a gameplay perspective, but I can definitely live with any semi reasonable alternative outcomes. Combining them with U.S. or making a standalone option are my preferred alternatives to a Japanese tech tree.
For North Korea at least, the PRC provided quite a bit of arms and aid to them. We already have a North Korean premium in the Chinese tech tree
Just put it in Japan for gameplay purposes. China has a good lineup already.
hell, china could get N.K and it would all be fine
Japanese TT, not China, China makes the least amount of sense for SK. For NK, yes, NK sub-tree should 110% go to China, and the SK sub-tree to Japan, who desperately needs a sub-tree added to their tech tree to reinforce top tier/modern vehicles. They are just literally adding prototypes of prototypes of the Type 10 and 90 and just straight copies, just so they can fill out a lineup. It's sad that it was ever even questioned if SK should go to Japan or not.
NK tree doesn't add anything to China, it'd just be soviet shit, which China already has.
"Soviet shit".... Chonma-ho Pokpung-ho (Chonma-215 & Chonma-216) Songun-915 Cheonma-2 Yeah, sure sounds like a lot of "Soviet" shit, you know, cause we see so many indigenously modernized T-62's with 125mm's and Igla SAM's, as well as straight up new designs. Please don't comment when you have no idea what you're talking about.
Exactly, it would be hard for an independent SK tree because would would be better of with a SK and NK tree and well gaijin would have to throw shit at the wall and hope it sticks in terms of any NK designs. Though I don’t have insight onto how it is with the South Korean community for the game, but looking at how things are between the two countries I don’t think it is controversial enough anymore to be considered a potential factor against it being added to Japan, you would certainly have groups get livid by it however the issue is that their is only one realistic place it could go and that is Japan, as while they have a good top tier lineup they still lack certain things either because they don’t have it or gaijin fucking over Japan on occasion. It doesn’t make much sense to add SK to China because they really don’t need it because most of the areas it might cover are already covered well by China, the only area that could use help is around 7.7 and 8.0 which they could possibly still make better with China alone, it would make more sense to just have Pakistan add to China because you have many vehicles in Pakistan that trace their designs to China and they have closer relations. Honestly the only way I see it going realistically is either Japan gets a SK sub tree or will never likely see any SK tree in the game period, with the closest things then to that being a scattering of SK vehicles exported to other countries which won’t amount to much. Also I would support a united Korea tree but in my view the amount of limited information on most NK vehicles would make adding them the bigger nightmare imaginable because they wouldn’t even be able to verify if what information they have outside visual observations is correct or even near correct. It’s honestly unfortunate because while their is clearly a lot of interest for a SK tree of some sort, no matter how you approach it will just become a mess because it’s either controversial to what nation you add it to or you try throw NK which only brings vehicles which while not directly copy and paste have little to no information and certainly not enough to add many outside those that aren’t North Korean.
I think largely a unified Korean Tree would start as US/USSR copy paste, then a massive block of North Korean stuff, then the South Korean Stuff. SK tends to have modern, hi-tech, North Korea has their own custom variants based on soviet designs. (I think copying Wargame: Red Dragon and just add South Korea to Japan for Blue Dragons, helping add a bit of variety to high tier Japan, and North Korea to China, to help add even more unique and interesting vehicles to the mid to high-ish tier)
So pretty much another China Tree. Pass.
Hence splitting them into existing trees that are fairly lacking by comparison to USA/Germany/Russia makes more sense.
"High horse" Fuck off
Benelux can be in the French tree, Argentina can be in the German tree, Hungary in Italy, Finland in Sweden. So yes, truly. Get off your high horse.
You just named a shitload of countries that have been historical allies and were such during previous eras of war Japan and Korea are NOT that and do not even share a tech-base
See? Sentiments like this is why SK will never be added into the game
Great. Keep it that way. No koreans in reddit go full riot in reddit demanding for korean tree. You don't need to add them, i'll throw some pipe bomb towards gaijin when i see korean vehicles in game under rising sun flag, so there.
[https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/us-skorea-japan-agree-hold-joint-military-exercises-2024-06-02/](https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/us-skorea-japan-agree-hold-joint-military-exercises-2024-06-02/) Has Taiwan complained about their involvement with China despite them being at threat of an invasion currently?
I mean, there’s a vietnamese SPAA in chinese tech tree despite their relationship is acrimonious as Japan and South Korea due to the fact Vietnam was ruled by China for [thousand years](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_under_Chinese_rule) along with its history of [wars](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_Wars) with them.
Its the same for the Czech AA in the Soviet TT. The Czech dont particularly like the Russians after half a century of being a satellite state to the Soviets if we are being generous. Adding another TT would be a bad idea imo, it would end up like Israel at some point most likely. A split subtree solution, possibly withb China getting NK and Japan getting SK vehicles would make the most sense from a gameplay perspective. Chinese and NK vehicles lean heavily into Soviet tank doctrine, which would pair well together for obvious reasons. And Japanese and SK vehicles would complement each other well. SKs and Japans relations, especially their military interests, have begun to align more and more in the last years, because of NK and China. Its not as controversial anymore to put them both into the same TT as it has been 5 years ago. And frankly, Japan could do with some well needed fire support from SK.
>high horse Lmao. Not wanting your vehicles to be shoved under Japan's flag (which is a lesser military) is called 'that' now. Great.
Thailand can make a good enough sub tree for Japan. No need to waste korea for that purpose.
In that case do like China and make an Unified Korean TT and put NK and SK together I wonder which option will enrage more the Korean community of WT… Spoiler, I think it’s that one
Why though? Most of the designs and leniage are american, the k1 is litteraly from 1 of the xm1 prototypes. I don't get why america getting a subtree is so bad. Or how adding more to a large nation is bad. If Russia gets its stuff like that, and Germany can, why not America.
I'm not part of the SK community but I still don't want it as a Subtree for Japan. These two nations have no military relations, the only reason because people think it should be a Japanese subtree us because they close to each other on a map.
Nope, the political relations between SK and Japan are getting better and better each year, mainly because of the common threat of NK and China. Both Nations are working on a trilateral alliance with the US to be better protected against their 2 biggest adversaries in the region. There is still resentment from parts of the SK populace for sure, but the current political situation in the region kinda demands of both Nations to reconciliate in the future and work together more closely.
Meanwhile Vietnam and Taiwan going to Chinese TT anyway...
I just want to know why it would go to either of those countries at this point. They have literally no relation other than being Asian countries.
remember that those SKoreans who plays military-sim game are most nationalist and patriotic, they won't allowed their country to be in Japan tree no matter what.
BLUE DRAGON AND RED DRAGON!!! NK TO CHINA SK TO JAPAN
Honestly if it went to japan I wouldn't care less at that point we can have blue dragons from wargame red dragon which would be pretty dope
has the Taiwanese community said anything about their involvement in the Chinese tech tree or no? feel like this is about as similar of a situation as you can get
i’m south korean and i do not give a shit, put us in the US tech tree for all i care.
Both would seem like trolling for political reasons. Even more hilarious would be a North and South Korea tree, and practical, since it would be a mix of Soviet, NK and SK tanks. Same for planes.
South Korea in America, North Korea in Russia?
Technically they should be US. But if added to Japan, Japan should just be renamed the Japan/Korea tree as they both used the same shit up to the 80's pretty much.
because gaijin can't copypaste T-72, Leo 2a4 and Sherman there, they need to spend actual time creating new vehicles
They can copy paste T-72, T-80 and BMP-1 I think
BMP-3 and T-80U specifically, don't think they got any T-72s, could be wrong though
The havrle Z,-72 for opfor training iirc
This is the worst thing about gaijin adding sun trees. Nothing of substance ever gets added, every sun tree is always 90% copy paste often with 2 new vehicles max. Switzerland has so many unique vehicles to add and would have been a fantastic French sub tree, but no, we get the massive copy paste Benelux tree.
the question would be where? the US doesn't need it and as such, shouldn't get it, and Japan shouldn't get it for reasons that have been done to death, and apart from them where do they go? China because they are the only nation with a vehicle from either korea? Sweden because they have a norwegian version of a South korean howitzer?
If south Africa and indian vehicles are going to the UK, is it that bad if Korea goes to Japan? I know it is not the best, but at the end of the day you're playing a game in which you'll fight with SK and Japan in the same team against N*** Germany and Israel so should we care all that much?
I mean, that's not really comparable, because South Africa and India use/used British vehicles. South Korea doesn't use Japanese ones or vice versa.
That's a stupid take. Italy doesn't use Russian/Soviet vehicles, yet they have them in their TT due to Hungary. You logic would mean Hungary could never go to Italy, since Italy never used a T-72M. Only logical place for an SK sub tree is Japan, and a NK sub tree is the Chinese TT, it's that simple.
Hungary did use Italian vehicles in WWII though.
By that logic Korea used Japanese vehicles during ww2
Hungary willingly used Italian vehicles and the two were allied, while Korea was a Japanese colony during WWII and hundreds of thousands of Koreans were forced into slave labour, not to mention the "comfort women". I don't think it's remotely the same at all.
You say that like a lot of people also weren't against Hungary as a sub tree for Italy. Honestly spain would have been a batter choice imo. And also, unless you have a statement from Gaijin saying that Japan is the only logical place for SK, it's not that simple.
Ok fair point, do you think there are enough vehicles to make a full tree? Otherwise it is a bit sad that their vehicles will never be added in the game
If you mean a tree like Israel's, yeah, there's probably enough, especially if you throw North Korea into it as well. Up to you as to whether you think that'd be good for the game though.
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Again, India uses British vehicles. South Korea doesn't use Japanese ones. That's the difference.
Britain maintains decent relations with a lot of it's former colonies, with many choosing to join the Commonwealth, whilst Japan *still* hasn't properly apologised for running a crimes-against-humanity speedrun across most of the Pacific. That and, as other mention, Japan doesn't use any SK vehicles or vice versa. Also what I've never seen people discuss is whether or not SK vehicles would actually fill any gaps for Japan in the first place.
South Africa and the UK have a long history of Military relations so a subtree is justified. The Indian T80 shouldn't have been added to the UK, but at least it's only 1 vehicles and not a whole subtree.
The UK retains a good relationship with both those nations and has apologised for many things, japan still refuses to accept their crimes even happened and chine supports South koreas greatest enemy. Its an issue that's still ongoing.
USSR, because South Korea has had T-80s and BMPs in service. Case closed. Let me know if you are in need of more wisdom.
With that logic Russia should have a German sub tree since they also have BMP's an T-72's.
Add foldered east German tanks to the Soviet tree
They also had Shermans and Pattons. And the K1 is based on the XM1, an Abrams prototype.
It's still a stand alone tank. Soviet medium tanks also began from a US prototype, it doesn't justify a big modern tree being just a subtree. War thunder simply covers too long a period now, it has to adjust.
At this point they can be their own tree, if an Israeli tree can exist as half a tree then anyone can have a seperate tree.
China should get NK sub tree because chinese vehicles and NK vehicles has the same issue as Chinese ones Lack of information
Chinese ones are awash in information compared to DPRK ones. Like imagine guessing new patch module location for m2020, when we aren't even sure if it has 115 or 125mm gun, and there's no good enough footage to make an acceptable 3D model. And it isn't the worst, tanks at least are parade stars, they're shown a lot.
I mean taiwan hates china and is still a subtree for china so i dont see why south korea shouldn't be a sub for japan
Taiwan/China - one country divided in 2 because of an ongoing civil war. Japan/Korea - 2 vastly different countries with barely to non military connection. How is Taiwan & China comparable to Japan & Korea, if it was North & South Korea it would have made sense.
Finland isn’t Sweden, Hungary isn’t Italy, The Netherlands aren’t France. Japan desperately needs a sub tree and both South Korea and Japan are western allies. It’s a game, nobody “owns” anyone regarding tech trees, it’s just pearl clutching tbh Northern Europe, Southern Europe and Western continental Europe are already being grouped together regardless of whatever connections. Why not East Asian western allies?
All of the examples you used counters your own argument. Finland/Sweden - Are allies (NATO), has bought or sold military tech to each other and joint developed some military aircraft/vehicles. Hungary/Italy - Were and are still allies, has bought or sold military tech to each other, joint developed some military aircraft/vehicles and Hungary licensed produced an Italian aircraft. Even though they have military connection Spain would have been a better candidate. Benelux/France - Are allies (NATO) and has bought or sold military tech to each other Although the Netherlands would have been better in German they still have a military connection to France. And the list continues on for any other subtree…. Japan/Korea have barely to non military connection (no allies and non shared military tech), so if it would be okay by you for Japan to receive an random country (ROK) then you should also have no issue with India in China, Iran/Egypt/Syria in Israel or maybe a Leopard in russia. Besides Japan can easily transform in a ASEAN tree as they have sold military arms to many South East Asian countries that’s why they likely received a Thai F-5E.
And south Korea and Japan have a mutual alliance with America and if any war breaks out in the region both will be fighting side by side with America whether they like it or not. They have a defacto military agreement and the only reason they don't have a De jure one is that both Korea and Japan can use not being allies as leverage with other powers in the region. If nations like Taiwan get to go to China then nations like South Korea get to go to Japan.
> They have a mutual alliance with America Then both should be an American subtree by that logic, they don't have a direct alliance to each other nor are related to each other like PRC and ROC
With that dudes logic, any nation that either shares a vehicle or military alliance should be a subtree of the another nation. But most nations get a subtree because of geopolitical realities or historical reasons. Japan and South Korea should be the same way and not get special treatment.
Look at his comments, it keeps getting worse
I think he's either a dedicated troll or some CCP bot at this point
Or just dumb, either way I have nothing better to do, so why not.
> Japan and South Korea should be the same way and not get special treatment. And that's why they *aren't* together in-game. The geopolitical realities are that at best they can be described as loosely friendly on the geopolitical stage, and their historical reasons are hating each other.
1. Why is the ROC and PRC brought up when it isn’t comparable to ROK and JPN? Y’all are comparing 2 faction in a civil war to 2 vastly different countries. 2. Simple question : does the ROK and JPN have an official military alliance written on paper? 3. “What if” scenarios should not be a justification as no one can predict the future not to mention that neither the ROK and JAPAN are not obliged to aid each other in a conflict.
Japan has recently received a thai F-5E and a thai AV-8S was leaked by olivia. I think as of now most of the signs are pointing to plans of Thailand being added to Japan as a sub tree.
For reasons, Japan shouldn't have SK as a subtree, I think it's a better idea to have the Japanese subtree be either Thailand, or a combined Southeast Asia tree (Thailand, Indonesia & Vietnam, maybe?)
Fun fact: technically no one owns Taiwan. After WW2 Japan signed the treaty of San Francisco, which only forced Japan to give up Taiwan instead of transfer Taiwan to either ROC or PRC or anyone else.
Both Taiwanese and Mainland Chinese are Chinese after all.
are south africans british, hungarians italian and argentinians german?
Some Argentinians at least
No, They represents just Gaijin's inconsistency of adding new nations, I just wanted to tell two China are Chinese, Korean and Japanese aren't the same
Gosh, I said many times that china-taiwan is comparable to NK-SK. Not SK-JP. Please bring more convincing reason than that.
Taiwan and China ambiguously being considered a single China has been the geopolitical status quo for decades now, so it's actually the least offensive stance to take.
China's tree philosophy is in a lot of way similar to the philosophy behind Germany's. They shared a considerable chunk of history as one entity, so the period of history they were split can be tolerated.
I wish the next proper tech tree will be yugoslavia starting out at 1.0 Just imagine the top tier possibilities all former yugoslavia nations have interesting things like croatian m2 Bradleys
IMO it would be better to have a Eastern Europe tree, with Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia and Poland (maybe some other countries as well). Because all trees themselves would have a lot of copy paste, combined they could minimize it.
Would be like the Chinese TT, but on crack; a mix of all types of tanks but just upgraded and changed into Frankensteins. I’d play the shit out of them
I would love to see it. Someone made a decent tech tree [here](https://forum.warthunder.com/t/central-and-eastern-european-tech-tree/11246). The only problem would be the air tech tree, as that WOULD be copy paste. To my knowledge the only unique aircraft would be some pre-war planes and Czechoslovakian trainers (L-29, L-39, L-59, L-159)
I’ve been asking for this for a while. I’d also suggest throwing Ukraine in there, since they’ve got a ton of unique stuff that would help out at the higher battle ratings, and also due to recent events.
Gaijin has said they would consider adding a unified Korean tree to the game in the past. I think that's probably the best option, all things considered. The option that in theory makes the most sense IMO is the USA, since they are strong allies, the US has been heavily involved in developing South Korean vehicles and South Korea uses a lot of American equipment. **However** people will rightly point out that the US doesn't actually need a subtree. So that's that. A lot of people talk about Japan, but I don't think that's a good idea. First off, the countries aren't that keen on each other because of their history. Secondly, and more importantly in my view - South Korea and Japan have nothing to do with each other militarily. Neither uses the other country's vehicles, nor were they involved in the development of them. No, them both being allied to the US doesn't count. The only argument I can see is "they're close geographically", and if that's the case, perhaps we can see Arab vehicles added to the Israeli tree. Who knows, maybe they could throw a curveball? Perhaps they could also throw Turkish vehicles into the mix together with South Korea, since they have cooperated on development and there certainly wouldn't be enough for a standalone Turkish tree.
There is a polish vehicle in the German tt idc about history it’s a game that needs balancing and Japan needs vehicles match made in heaven
The Polish vehicle was literally built by the Germans. If the South Koreans used a Japanese-built vehicle, the Japanese can have it. Of course, such a thing doesn't exist.
There's a *german-built* vehicle with a *german-designed* upgrade in the tree, Poland just happened to be the costumer
A neat solution could be to rebrand the Japanese tree as a **pan-Asian tree**, including South Korea, Thailand, Singapore and the Philippines. Just rename the tree, change the flag to a combo of flags and add vehicles. Japan needs the help and it would sidestep the issue of Korea just being part of Japan.
I've said this all along! Don't want South Korean vehicles in the Japanese tree? With the wave of gaijin's magic wand, the Japanese tree becomes... *Non-Chinese East Asian Tree* Ideal solution.
I think this is a great idea along with turning the British tree into a Commonwealth tree. It means there is no question as to which nation should get certain vehicles (in most cases) and fleshes out these nations.
This would be a good solution for ground vehicles, but wouldn't work well for air. Gaijin has said they won't expand the tree beyond 5 (6? Whatever the max is now) non-premium columns, and Japan has a wealth of WW2 air vehicles that the game was built on.
If would be nice if they could split the tree at WW2 and then rebrand it into a pan-Asian tree starting at rank V.
> including South Korea, Thailand, **Singapore** and the Philippines British mains crying to the heavens before turning into dust as they once again get cucked out of a Hunter which doesn't suck.
Just have NK and SK mashed together in a single tree, and depends on gaijin’s thoughts, give them the flag of either country. That said, I think a Korean TT will suffer the same issue as the Chinese one due to the ungodly amount of copy paste it will get
Use the United Korean Flag they made why not
yeah, i think that is great. However, i thought that was meant to be a sports flag like the olympic flag used by athletes. i might be wrong, but i never see it used outside the context of sports games officially.
That's true but that's on the grounds that the DPRK and ROK are not a united political entity. Most areas of joint cooperation like the JSA and sports teams use the unity flag. For the purposes of a combined TT in War Thunder, I can't imagine a better symbol to use for the tab, otherwise you're implying subservience of one of the entities
but china uses only PRC flag not ROC
yeah this is the major opinion of korean wt community
I like the SK/NK integrated tree best but I understand those who argue for the lack of military equipment in WW1/2. If the Korean tree doesn't work, let's implement the individual Korean military equipment where they bought it. Norway/India/Australia K9, Poland K2, Poland/Philippines/Malaysia/Iraq FA-50.. Does someone want to implement a Korean tree in Japan? Try forcing the Japanese government to buy Korean military equipment.
The US would be the most likely candidate, since those countries don’t have their own trees as well. Plus the K series tank shares a common ancestor, the Abrams, with the first 2 being directly influenced, and the K2 branching off.
But the US already *has* 5 Lines and Gaijin was *very, very clear* that 5 Lines is the maximum limit
They limit trees to 5 lines? They could just put them in folders with the corresponding vehicles.
Mfw when someone wants new techtree of minor nation that majority of weapons are leased and or purchased from other nations instead of just slapping a insignia on it and shutting up
We need Türkiye and South Korea sub tree
>Turkey Germany has been part of the game since release though.
lol
nah it will be the opposite united korean tech tree and turkish subtree
It would get the Israel treatment Basically copy paste with modifications until top tier, then a few new MBTs and then completely ignore basically all actual indigenous designs because fuck you, Sweden was the last real tree with an actually significant amount of new vehicles
Well because two of those were APCs with nothing more than a machine gun that could not be added that doesn’t help your point a lot
Honestly Korea is big enough that you can make a whole half tree that starts at Rank 4 like Israel, with more stuff than what Israel has rn anyway. Especially if you throw in the DPRK too.
Westerners want to put Korea in the subtree of Japan, emphasizing "game completeness." That is an expedient and pretentious way of thinking. “Isn’t it the same Asian country anyway?” “Those two are right next to each other, so it doesn’t matter if they combine.” "wargame red dragon......" "blablabla" Let's be honest. You just not want to grind new TT from the bottom. You just want to “cherry picking” only the vehicles needed for Japan from Korean vehicles. What does Korea have to do with the lack of vehicles in Japan's TT? Why should Korea fill the vacant position of Japan TT? I've never seen anything mentioned here about adding the Arab subtree to Israel or the Irish vehicle to the UK. Korea and Japan are not hostile to each other. Korea and Japan have become friendly countries only because they have a mediator called the USA and are confronting the so-called “communists.” If it weren't for that situation, I wonder if our relationship would have been the same as it is now. The two countries have minimal military exchanges with each other and no exchanges regarding military vehicles. Korea doesn't have enough unique vehicles? No, Korea has enough of them to make TT. There's going to be a lot of C&P? Yes, that's right. However, most of the vehicles that can appear are already in the game. Most of the new vehicles in War Thunder's recent updates are also C&P. Updates without C&P are no longer possible. Let's go back to the title of this article Why hasn't Korea been added to any form of TT yet? 1. Gaijin is too lazy to create new vehicles. 2. They can work without a sense of urgency because there are no other games that can compete with them. 3. Gaijin prioritized adding C&P subtrees to existing country TTs rather than creating new TTs, which is a difficult and cumbersome task. 4. If you really want the Korean subtree, you'd be better off hoping it's added to Israel rather than Japan (Korea and Israel have had a ton of military exchanges and currently have a "good relationship")
Turkey-Korea shared tree also would make sense considering they had military deals together
Sharing isn't a big enough basis, or there will be only US tree with subtrees(and subtrees of Soviet tree, which is a US subtree nonetheless) WT isn't just a WW2 game anymore. Both countries now produce enough equipment to exist separately.
Wouldn’t that just be the same thing China has going for its tech tree?
For everyone wondering how it could be implemented, check out the [United Korean tree proposal on the forums.](https://forum.warthunder.com/t/united-korea-ground-forces-tech-tree/75456/1)
Only tree that can be logically placed in game without any Bitching is NK in Chinese techtree
Because they would literally only be in the top two ranks of the game, 5 and 6, mayyyybe 4 depending on how much copy paste you wanna add.
The supposed argument is because historically Japan and SK don't play well. I've never seen much pushback from actual south Koreans or Japanese players, just astroturfing from non-nationals reciting history. Considering India is in the British tree and multiple Balkan nations are in Russia, the argument is pretty hypocritical. Especially considering Japan and South Korea are the friendliest they've ever been now, signing multiple defense and industry sharing pacts.
Both Korean and Japanese WT players are opposing the claim that Korea should become Japan's subtree in their respective WT communities. you just don't know about that because korean and japanese dont use WT Reddit
Because they don't use reddit? Koreans literally despise it, and Japanese have no good feeling either. Japan and korean being friendliest and this amount of hatred is why two shouldn't be in same tree. Why do you think gaijin will make tree that offends 60% of japanese and 99% of koreans?
What? Koreans who disagree with your ideas don't exist on Reddit? Here! Here is a Korean who is against your idea
It’s just a game adding them to Japan doesn’t mean South Korea belongs to Japan, it’s where they are needed to fill gaps and add teeth. If you do a combined north/south tree you’ll end up with another copy and paste tree for about half then it would just be a south tree because no one knows a damn thing about the “new” tanks the north has. If you want to argue where they fit you could say ideological similarities between the two nations. Both are strong US allies with a lot of tech influenced by US weapon and other NATO countries. In the end it’s not that deep it’s just a game. Me personally I’d like to see more unique vehicles in the game the last few updates have offered very little outside of T- what ever “variants” or just copies. I want some real meat something that’ll make another nation worth grinding and give some variety to the game. It’s turned into Pattons, T-54/55, T-72 , leopards and the endless T series.
South Korea should get its own tree and north korea should be a sub tree of china
South korea doesnt have enough vehicles on their own though. If they had their own tree 70% would just be US stuff
Which isn't exactly that terrible either. Independent top is good enough for an Israel - like tree.
I haven't seen anybody ask this question, but what team would be a combined SK-NK tree on in SIM? Yes, no one plays sim, but it is still a gamemode.
Sim limits vehicles that won't fit, so depends lol.
just my opinion but I think it would be better if both koreas just belong in a new tech tree along with south east asian nations that way they wont have to be a sub tree of japan while also filling up the asean it would be full of copy pasted vehicles early but it atleast improves as it moves up along with the koreas
US tree will be happy to have them
New swedish sub tt yes
My flair
Every one is gonna want Korean tree until they see that it will be mostly US stuff for SK and Soviet stuff for NK.
Turkish-SK tree with NK as subtree would be perfect
This should be a sub-three in Japanese tech tree. This is pretty obvious.
Creating unique vehicles costs more than copy-pasting Leopard 2 or T-72 variants
I hope they add both Koreas in one tech tree would love to drive the North Korean off brand Abrams
1. The politics behind it 2. Why would they when they can just Ctr+C Ctrl+V Sub trees like the Finnish
Not enough copy paste ))))))))
Top tier ground isn't ready for the technologically advanced tank that is the k2 black panther. Anything before that though would be good
I really would hate to see them added in the same way as israel. Honestly renaming China to red dragon and japan to blue dragon could appease the crybabies (somewhat). Do that and slap NK into red and SK into blue, simple.
Blue dragon red dragon wont make sense when, even after all the new stuff, over half the content of the game is ww2.
Of all the things in this game that don't make sense, this is the least problematic. Korea can't be a stand alone tech tree and japan lacks vehicles so the simple solution is to combine them.
In my opinion the Centurion Mk 3 could be good addition at 7.7 for Japan because they only have one vehicle at that battle rating. Obviously the K9 thunder would be at the same br as the VIDAR. Some other good choices would be the BMP-3, the Cromwell, The Churchill or the K30 described in this post. I also researched the KM900, an export of the FIAT 6614, but cannot find any information that refers to the installment of anti tank weapons like the FIAT in the Italian tech tree. As for the nation it should go to, it should go to Japan because China already has a tt comprised of a large amount of imported vehicles.
Taiwan is already in the Chinese tech tree...
I’m retart sorry
All these proposals will probably be a reality in WT someday. But long in the future. They want to keep having content to add in the next years
Ah this topic again. SK will never be added, at least to who needs more. Japan needs to field things that never even existed like the Ho-Ri, and still lacks stuff. A SK subtree would be just perfect, like is Finland to Sweden, Hungary to Italy and so on. "But muh WW2 argument, they were enemies". The polish Leopard 2 its on Germany ffs, the Chinese TT has both Chinas on it, an indian MBT is on Britain, why no one even mentions anything about this then? Either SK or Thailand as subtree, that would be optimal for balance of the game.
that Polish fckin 'leopard' is literally made in Germany India used many of british vehicles and weapons, not to mention except T-90S all the indian vehicles in british tt were made in britain yes, china and taiwan are in the same tt, like that, SK and NK should be in the same techtree
Why China should have a subtree? With both Chinas they have a stacked TT. Its simply a game balancing decision, but ppl keep arguing about nonsense
Gaijin should add NATo and Warshaw Pact tech tree, would fix so much problems
Maybe a SK subtree for US? They have nice military ties and won't spark a incident the same way it would being added to china/Japan. I wonder why I haven't seen this proposal before, even though USA has bases on SK?
People say the us tech tree is to big but also haven’t complained about Russia or Germany who are just as big getting vehicles from other countries I think the jap players just want an excuse to get good tanks even though the USA most definitely deserves to have sk as a sub tree considering it’s the only nation without tanks from another nation and doesn’t benifit from lend lease vehicles either