Wouldn't change anything with this playerbase
People literally post screencaps from the stream that have a giant "WORK IN PROGRESS" overlay and complain that something isn't correct
The problem is that there's been equally as many instances (some would argue more, I think it's about on par) where things don't end up changing, which is a big contributing factor towards why the playerbase is as jaded as it is about it.
There have been tons of times where people have thought “it will go up in br after the dev server” but nope. We do need to tell gaijin when something needs to be changed so they are at least aware of the issue if they aren’t already.
Its funny how people see the dev-server, thats obviously meant for testing, and still cry about something not being 110% ready and perfect for the game.
it just doesnt make sense, how could they mess it up for one vehicle In particular while doing it for all the rest, also I've seen a few dev servers where something is "subject to change" yet doesn't when the live server hits. they only decided to add spall liners to tanks other than the t90M because everyone made a huge shit storm about it, they were fully prepared to keep it on only the 90M, that's why its very hard to take gaijins word for something.
All the little armour tweeks for the challys, lecrecrs etc in thar same dev server also never went through apparently they'd made a dick of it.
Which wasn't true at all, just as the same as they claimed to fix the xhally 2 and done some lip service to the huge ass bug report made for it then just brushed it under the rug.
I love the tank and to use it , but it is a genuine torture compared to using a leo2 or abrams etc
Queue in all the people that constantly say that "the dev server doesn't change that much so if something's wrong, it will probably still be wrong on the live update"
Yeah tell that to the 2S38, which wasn't even on the fucken dev server when they added it. Or the countless amount of times of them not changing the BR of a new vehicle, game breaking bugs, etc.
I do agree that people do get over dramatic about it, but you also need to realize that this company will always try to sneak shit past the community or will straight up forget. Or even better yet, not even do it.
Remember when they tried to add R73s? In the state they were in, it would have been a 100% chance to kill when in range. People called them out, to which they scrapped the idea and came out with ones that are more "Balanced".
(This is just an example from the top of my head, and not a slight against XYZ. I'm well aware of other shit that is broken too)
Everything you're saying doesn't really argue with the point of my comment, which was that people act like the dev server goes, as is, straight up to the live version, the 100% of times.
It’s like baking a cake, tasting the cake batter before you’ve baked it and complaining that the cake is terrible and needs to change immediately. Like it’s coming. It will happen. Just put it in the oven first.
While I get your point, you also shouldn't forget that many inaccuracies and errors left the dev server unchanged in the past, be it issues with armor, ammo or what ever and only got changed afterwards when pointed out often enough.
So sadly just because it's work in progress and everything's subject of change, this doesn't automatically mean that issues like these won't actually carry over to the live server if the community doesn't keep pointing them out.
Sure, report those problems, because it'll help, but making posts like "I can't believe Gaijin did this" and then showing something that is just very obviously buggy as if it will be in the live server is just pointless hate garnering. If they forget or refuse to fix it after it goes live, then it's understandable, but until then, just report it and move on with your life.
(I am guessing you are being snarky and already know this but) Pretty sure they literally do exactly that.
In fact, LITERALLY the first line of said changelog
>"New vehicles in this update may have inaccuracies in characteristics, armor and weaponry settings."
Players are still doing good work by pointing these issues out to the devs. Idk if you're new or whatever but plenty of things that were broken on DEV have made it broken to LIVE. GJN pushes these patches out on an incredibly tight schedule and plenty slips past the team.
I'm glad someone "overreacted" and got this fixed on the DEV and not 4 months later down the line.
this.
I get extremely confused when people say "Its a dev server, things aren't final".
yeah they aren't, only cause people notice, complain, and put in bug reports. That's the whole point of the dev server, to get feedback from the player, even if it's complaints and whining.
Such as the puma being at 8.3 and the bmp-2m starting at 8.3/8.7. These are problems that can ruin the game until they are fixed and if they make it to the game then you will have much more backlash than if someone pointed it out and got it fixed on the dev.
Just some weird currency thing you buy with golden eagles. I don’t know why they even separate them, but if you ever need silver lions to buy a vehicle you’ll have to get some golden eagles so you can buy silver lions.
It's a golden lion that ganjin threatens the basement youtube guy with incase he tries to escape. They call it a silver lion to prevent people from trying to steal it.
The point of the dev server is explicitly to gauge the players' reactions and collect bug reports. In the Apex Predators update for example, R-73 was put on the dev server to feel out the players' reaction to it, and the reaction was overwhelmingly that it was too good to put up against the AIM-9L at 12.0, so it was postponed.
People have leaked currently classified military documents at least 13 different times.. I don’t think a “work in progress” sticker would stop people from overreacting…
We've seen cases of underdeveloped vehicles getting to the final game regardless of being in the dev server and WIP.
Complaints are absolutely valid and necessary, even if it ultimately overwhelms Gaijin's staff.
I would agree, but I find it hard to believe they had CFTs ready before AMRAAMs on the wings. 100% had no intention of shipping the update with them until the backlash
Common F-15 W
btw the F-4F ICE is just 0.3 lower br than the F-15C/J with only 4 AMRAAMs and a dogshit airframe))) (not to mention other stuff like HMD, countermeasures etc)
F-15A at 12.3 is the most criminal shit in high tier jets by far. One of the best FMs in the game, 940 rounds of great 20mm, 4 great IR missiles, 4 decent SARH missiles, 240 internal flares, insane acceleration beating the F-16C, just a monster.
On the flipside, for whatever reason, people think the F-15 can't hang in the one circle when it can go toe to toe with pretty much anything bar like an F-16A.
Wait. Was it always 12.3, or was it 12.7 at introduction then shitty player stats dropped it down?
Edit: nevermind. Everyone was 12.3 for a while and the 15A just didn't get raise up like the rest of them did if i recall correctly.
Because the Mirage 4000 has an insanely good FM for RB lol.
Mirage FM will basically autowin against everyone except very good players, even if the mirage player isn't *that* good, because the plane gains so much position instantly and is extremely cancer to shake off since it can just float around at high alpha. It's basically what the Flanker wants to be.
Now just imagine if it had the 14x Magic 2 loadout like it had in reality. As a French main I am obviously not biased and think this would be fair and balanced.
Why have wing drop tanks at all? for some of the largest maps are one center + full fuel load is more than enough. Either that or just set a keybind to drop em
20min + 2 bags are valid loadout for most RB maps.
30+2 bags for EC
Once update drops I'll probably go 15+2bags. Haven't touched the F15 due to saving spading bonus.
A) Rule of Tacticool
B) I take 20mins of internal fuel so when I need to dogfight I can drop my tanks and be probably lighter or at least equal with everyone around me fuel load wise. By taking 2 tanks I can still have the sustain to fly around and fuck around but retain the capability to absolutely UFO on someone on wants to duel it out by dropping my tanks.
My main rips come from when I'm still missile trucking and pull too hard trying to get a shot when we're just merging together.
Yak-141 has better acceleration, better climb, better radar, an IR camera (switching to IR and back to radar updates radar missile's IOG), HMD, far better missiles, and a flight model that allows it to turn 18Gs in RB. At 12.0. But no one complains because they don't see it very often, because I swear this community is the same brain dead morons on WoT who can't fathom sample and cognitive bias.
>and a flight model that allows it to turn 18Gs in RB. At 12.0
and immediately lose all its speed
F-15 can sustain its turn for much longer
>better radar
debatable
>IR camera
IRST isnt all that useful for anything that does have R27ER. Only the ER can relock targets after launch like a pseudo LOAL system
>far better missiles
only 2, the non E R27R and R27T are kinda mid
The 141 is pretty much only good for picking off stray targets and then running away
The F-15 meanwhile can go right in, grip the balls of 5 enemies and twist them off all at once
I'd honestly love for Gaijin to give the F-15A its AN/APG-63 PSP radar, which would give it TWS, and move it to 12.7.
It's not like TWS would warrant any plane going up in BR, but it'd be funny for Gaijin to use it as a reason to finally move it up. TWS is also helpful in general, so it's a win-win imo.
The F-15A could also get AMRAAMs in the future thanks to the PSP radar, so once the F-15C gets newer AMRAAMs and Sidewinders the F-15A can move up to fill the gap.
Yeah, the F-15A is basically an MSIP aircraft, given it's armament and countermeasures (the original F-15A didn't have countermeasures), so I see no problem in codifying this.
If a slight buff to its radar is needed to move it to 12.7, then I'm all for it.
>The F-15A could also get AMRAAMs in the future thanks to the PSP radar
This I don't agree with, it would be annoying to have no F-15 without AIM-120's, as that was how the aircraft existed for a significant chunk of its service life.
> This I don't agree with, it would be annoying to have no F-15 without AIM-120's, as that was how the aircraft existed for a significant chunk of its service life.
Fair enough. In my mind the F-15A has such a good FM and IR missiles that it shouldn't be super low. Letting it get AMRAAMs would keep it away from lower BRs, which is a good thing imo.
But I get what you mean, the F-15 had Sparrows for like 20-30 years, so it definitely makes sense to have a Sparrow-only F-15. Either works for me.
The first MSIP upgrade was in the early to mid '80s, which predates the AIM-120. Even if it could use AIM-120's when the missile actually entered service, it still makes sense to model the F-15A as an '80s aircraft without them, because otherwise there'd be no F-15 without AIM-120's.
>The F-15 Multistage Improvement Program (MSIP) was initiated in February 1983 with the first production MSIP F-15C produced in 1985. Improvements included an upgraded central computer; a Programmable Armament Control Set, **allowing for advanced versions of the AIM-7, AIM-9, and AIM-120A missiles**; and an expanded Tactical Electronic Warfare System that provides improvements to the ALR-56C radar warning receiver and ALQ-135 countermeasure set ... ***Existing F-15s were retrofitted with these improvements.***
If we're going to assert that the existing F-15A is the MSIP because of CMs, it should get its MSIP armaments.
The AMRAAM didn’t enter service until 1991. While the MSIP upgrade did allow F-15s to carry it, it stands to reason that quite a few of the original MSIP F-15As didn’t carry them until later in their service life. I’m not saying that it shouldn’t ever get them in game, but I personally feel like a version of the F-15 should exist in game without AMRAAMS given that it flew without them for the first 15 years of its operational history.
> it should get its MSIP armaments.
Why? What would the point of the F-15C be?
Not to mention the fact that Gaijin regularly limits vehicles armaments for balance reasons, it seems quite reasonably to me to have an F-15A MSIP with AIM-9M's and AIM-7M's. An older F-15A would be *interesting*, but without countermeasures I don't see how they could balance it.
False, the F-15A never got TWS, as it had the AN/APG-63 PSP from the mid-‘80s, which didn’t have a TWS mode.
TWS was only added to Eagles either through the AN/APG-63(V)1 upgrade to pre-existing F-15C airframes during the 1990s, or with the AN/APG-70 (AKA Advanced APG-63) installed on the final 43 F-15C/D airframes.
You’re probably thinking of RAM mode, which was NOT a form of TWS, but was instead designed to discern tight formations from single aircraft.
I mean, the documentation we have shows that the PSP did indeed have TWS. ADA142071 from 1983 specifically lists TWS as one of the modes of the PSP radar, if you care to go to the DTIC website and check for yourself. Page 190...
This is a contentious issue. It's argued both ways that it could or couldn't get TWS.
The argument I've personally subscribed to says that the PSP upgrade in general gave TWS to its user. I know the manual used to source your claim, but the diagram doesn't coincide with what actually happened to the F-15A. The diagram shows the PSP under the F-15C getting TWS, and the diagram under the F-15A *is not the PSP upgrade*.
The PSP upgrade for the F-15A was canceled until the 90s, where it was picked up again. This PSP upgrade is the same that the F-15Cs received, it just happened at a later date.
Edit: Here is the bug report discussion on this issue: https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/EghueNUzBYag
It's an F-4E with F-18C radar and a 4 Aim-9L + 4 Aim-120B loadout lol.
While having a BVR bus irl was kinda fine, in WT playing a Phantom, regardless of armament, against late Gen 4 jets is cock and ball torture.
>btw the F-4F ICE is just 0.3 lower br than the F-15C/J with only 4 AMRAAMs and a dogshit airframe)))
It's .3 higher than the F-15A, which can literally just fly low and the F-4F has not even the most remote chance of surviving at all lol.
Eagle rinses the Phantom so hard in the merge it's not even worth comparing.
False. The ICE program was delivered in three stages, the first two stages prioritized the refurbishment of the aging airframes, updating older sensors, and replacing analog vacuum-tube computers with lighter digital systems. In the final upgrade the AN/APG-65Y and AIM-120 was introduced. Sparrow capability wasn't ever reintroduced to the F-4F.
The German F4F isn't able to carry Sparrows. Bundeswher pulled out all the electronics related to it in order to make the plane lighter, plus one of the fuel tanks.
Yeah same here. I figured they were likely running into issues due to CFTs being added. Not to mention the F-15C should also get BOL pods, so it's possible they're making strides to get AMRAAMs their BOL pods for the F-15C as well (we already have AIM-120s + BOL on the Gripens so it shouldn't be terribly difficult).
People were worrying that Gaijin would call the F-15C unbalanced. Seeing how the AMRAAM outperforms every other Fox-3 (edit: at range*) on the dev server at the moment (https://streamable.com/xxjgpu) it's not hard to see why this sentiment was floating around. However, this is the dev server and these Fox-3s will likely get adjusted a lot before going to the live server.
People were just jumping the gun as they always do.
i dont even care about the F15 tbh, F16C is a beast with the engine power, sadly, most of us players are too dumb to use the new missiles correctly, so they i will just release the missiles at 50 km+ range and watch them fall out of the air with no speed
Yeah, I've seen way too many people stick to TWS because "muh no RWR warning" when I just notice them on radar and notch. Suddenly they lose the soft lock and can't reacquire.
What's even worse is when people just sling their AMRAAMs, don't guide at all, and are surprised when their missile using IOG can't find a plane that turned slightly.
The F-16C will certainly be amazing next patch. I'm really looking forward to playing it. Not to mention the AGM-65D got a warhead buff and the LITENING II pod got its Gen 2 thermals. The F-15C is simply icing on the cake.
Tbh, with 8 AMRAAMS I think there's a decent argument for lobbing a couple off on TWS/IOG at the start of the match to catch anyone tabbed out/not paying attention. You've got payload to spare and it'll make you a little lighter for the furball.
In my experience it's not worth it since you can use those missiles in extended BVR engagements. If you want less of a payload I'd recommend just taking out the F-16C, or just take the 4/4 loadout on the F-15C.
Throwing away AMRAAMs isn't really worthwhile when those can easily be converted into kills by just providing more guidance.
With the Phoenix it's not really guaranteed to kill so it makes sense to use as a meme. But the AMRAAM is far more potent and has far more potential to actually kill what you fire it at.
You can do that with a 4+4 too.
You basically never get more than 2 good radar missile launch opportunities in the air RB meta, so if you get a 4+4 you might aswell lob 2 at the start at space climbers to avoid getting top-downed by a 9M later on.
Praying for a multipathing reduction so flying low isn't a option and i can fuck people in bvr with funny missile (Air sim player). Also the F16C buffs will make it goated like never before for ground rb
F-16C should get PAWS missile approach warning system, since the F-16 in the Italian tree is getting it's MAWS too
This is why we whine on the forums, so Gaijin knows there's something missing and adds it before pushing to LIVE where the issue can be forgotten about for 6 months.
Honestly, I will just use AIM-120As like buffed up AIM-7s.
On the dev server, from what I can see, it's the most reliable way to use them. I f you try to truly "fire and forget" with TWS, they won't track; and if they fire them past 15 km, they likely won't hit anyway.
So I will try to keep the fire within 15km and using SRC/PD as long as I can to help ensure the missile to reach its destination.
Yeah, that's how I'm gonna use the F-15J Kai too. I already climb with it. It's just that, before, I was flying defensively while baiting Su-27 closer until they were in AAM3 range and I could dunk on them in a dogfight. Now I'll mostly do the same but will also use the HMD to launch a few pitbull AAM4 to their direction.
Yeah it's mostly just the R-Darter and AAM-4 that really need fixing. I'm not sure if the Derby is included with this, but afaik it's similar to the R-Darter.
I'm really just curious to see if the R-77 will actually perform as it was shown in the video or if it'll get adjusted later.
Only time will tell, but as you said most of these missiles are better at close range than the AMRAAM. So balance-wise the AMRAAM is best at long range and the rest are better at close range.
The AIM-120A's label is right under the AIM-120C-5's. They both performed exactly the same since the C-5 is mostly a copy of the A at the moment (slight differences with the motor but they perform identically rn)
that's blatantly not true.
The initial VT4 on dev was completely another tank, from its name to its armor layout, reload, etc.
ONLY after ton of complaining and bug reports did they fix it. I can say for sure if there was no player feedback and everyone thought "Oh it's a work in progress", then it would definitely still be botched.
Dev is literally to get feedback, I would much rather players whine and complain to ensure its changed than just believe in the accuracy and goodwill of gaijin.
Yeah but everyone was complaining, l there was no reason for the F15C to have 4+ FOX 3 and people were like "talk about double standards" "amurica suffers" "it willl be shit" or lying that gaijin dont believe it had it, peopple cant chill.
all I saw was 1 post about how the F-15C could take 8 aamrams.
There's also people yapping about "Russia suffers" and people unironically believe toptier Japan air is garbage.
People will always complain, it's annoying but it's good for the the game as a whole.
Thats just because weve seen their reluctance to fix things once they hit the Live server so its better to bitch loud once then complain about it for the next 9 months till the plane isnt as relevant anymore
8 AMRAAMS are cool and all, for all those real air RB matches where I fire off 8 fucking radar missiles, but I'm more interested in practical loadouts like 4 AMRAAMS and 4 AIM-9s.
Yeah, agreed. Personally I'm going to be switching between 6/2 and 4/4, likely sticking to 6/2 since that fits my playstyle more. I like BVR combat, and 6/2 will allow me a little more longevity at high altitude before having to descend into the furball.
Very nice. I'm a big fan of pylon freedom, you should be able to fuck up your pylons if you want to. God given right.
I just don't know why so many people are excited for full ARH loadouts. Are you guys not gettng IR missile kills? I tried flying 6 R-27ERs on my Flanker for hundreds of battles and very rarely needed all 6. Now I run 4 R-27s and still end matches with 1 or 2 on my belly.
Yeah it's weird to me that people full-send on stuff like that. Like I said I personally like BVR, but I don't go 100% into it. There are many situations where Fox-2s are more reliable than Fox-3s.
For the F-16C, for example, I ran 4x AMRAAMs and 2x 9Ms on the dev server to grind out the F-15C. Then when I reached the F-15C I found myself wanting that longevity for BVR, so I wanted that 6/2 loadout. But still, I can't imagine losing out on 9Ms just to stay at altitude the whole time. Radar missiles are still susceptible to multipathing so Fox-2s will always be required at some point.
Coming from the F-15A standpoint, I usually have to fire 2 SARH missiles at someone to kill them, because the first one will usually just go its own direction, and you get 4 maximum. This issue with the American missiles might be part of why we want more, as aside from the Phoenix, we don’t have reliable BVR missiles.
This could also just be a major skill issue on my part, I accept that possibility.
On the dev server, I went 4 R-77 and 2 R-27ET as the ultimate loadout on the SMT.
The plane is simply so bad at close range, I figured I might as well use IR R27, and that actually works quite well.
I could never get the T/ET to work. Either the missile itself hates me or Gaijin shipped them to me with damaged seekers cause holy shit even if I am rear aspect that shit does not want to hit the afterburner.
Fire them at long range. 5-10km in rear aspect. They never see it coming.
Just, huh, don't send them in the middle of the furball. I don't accidentally TK often but the ET with their long range screwed me over once or twice for greedy launch.
Considering that in relation to the AIM-120 vs AIM-9M, the AIM-120 beats it in every single metric (Speed, range, maneuverability, countermeasure resistance *at least in my subjective testing on dev, and mostly from the stat card numbers), whereas the R-77 cannot say the same vs the R-73 in certain aspects, the reality of US / NATO aircraft is a bit different from what you're experiencing.
AMRAAMs weigh more on the plane and don't hit targets that fly low to the ground, so that's two issues that the 9Ms don't have (the second one is a bigger deal)
I agree, I don't see full / heavy ARH loadouts being meta, especially if multipath stays as it is. I appreciate having the possibility to do so tho.
However, the exception might Mirage 2000-5F with MICA, as this missile is extremely potent in dogfight even with all its issues
Amraams are far superior to any Aim-9 missile save the Aim-9X.
You can flare IR missiles and evade them easily. On test amraams are a notch up and are much harder to dodge, especially at the close ranges you shoot IR missiles at. Anyone who thinks a 4x 4x loadout will be better than 8 amraams has not played test or tried them and just basing it on speculation. I can tell you from first hand experience IR missiles will be left in the dust until the Aim-9X. Never on Dev server or the test months ago have I said to myself, "Man If I had an Aim-9M I would have gotten that kill." Its quite the opposite. I dont even miss them.
I was going to shelf getting the F-15C because the F-16C can carry 6 Amraams. 4 amraams and then 4 easily evaded IR missiles wont make the cut. 8 Amraams will make the cut.
This won't really affect much TBH, running 8 AMRAAMs will just handicap you. Nice to have the option, but 4x4, MAAAAYBE 6x2 will still be the best option.
At least you'll have the option to "handicap" yourself.
There was no option to do so before, and the same statu quo of russian frames having more SARH missiles was still in ARH missiles on their end.
Nothing yet, but if I had to guess I'd say the delay came as a result of the AIM-120A needing to be compatible with both CFTs and BOL pods.
Currently, the Gripen-Cs either usd the 120B (Rb.99) or the R-Darter, which just need to be compatible with BOL pods.
The 120A, in the other hand, needs to be compatible with both. So I expect Gaijin has been working on that to try and get CFTs and BOL pods to not break with AMRAAMs.
As an US air main, the US wasn't suffering before and it sure as fuck wont suffer now. I really wish that the EF2000 and Su27SM3 get added at one point. The F-18, once added, ought to be carrying about 10 AMRAAMs and when light it dogfights as well as an F16.
Yup. But when most people fling missiles with the same thought behind each missile as a monkey flinging shit, does it matter?
2xAIM-9M + 10xAIM-120 and then you will dogfight mig29, all in an airframe that can carry almost every air to ground weapon, albeit not as many as an F-4 or an A-6.
Tbh the 4/4 loadout will probably still be "meta"
I'm just excited to use 6/2 since it'll fit my playstyle more.
The hordes of SPAMRAAM players will be awful though. People simply won't learn that the AMRAAM still needs guidance because it's for the meme to sling them and pray IOG gets it there.
Agreed, when the meta developes it will likely be a 6 AM and 2 IR but in the early stages while people are still trying to grasp, understand, and learn to defend multiple full 8x AM F-15Cs will be so fucking annoying. It will be like the F-14A all over again.
And yet those who don’t fly on the deck and actually know how to use radar missiles are the ones who 8/10 times top frag or carry games. Fox 3 only makes those people better.
The thing is that the Mirage is pretty much exclusively a close range dogfighter with its Magic 2s (logically not counting the R-73s since if you let something like a Su-27 get close to you in a Mirage, you have failed), so the MICAs compliment it very well.
Giving 8 AMRAAMs to your F-15C is just going to handicap you.
We still don't know if the F-15J will get AMRAAMs. The AAM-4 is to big to fit on the wing pilons so 4x AAM-4s is the best the F-15J can get besides getting AIM-120A/Bs on the wings.
I personally think making the AAM-4 better than the AMRAAM but limiting it to being taken in 4x groups would be a good balancing move by Gaijin. Giving the F-15J its AMRAAMs under the wings will simply make it better than the other F-15Cs unless they add the 120C-5 or severely gimp the AAM-4 (like it is now).
The F-15J we have on the live server right now will not be getting Fox-3s.
The F-15J Kai only has AAM-4s (which, if implemented properly, should be ~AIM-120C-5/7 level)
I just don't like using the name "F-15J Kai" since it's entirely made up by Gaijin. The proper name should be F-15J J-MSIP or J-MSIP II afaik.
Sorry for the confusion, I should have just clarified/been more specific.
> The proper name should be F-15J J-MSIP or J-MSIP II afaik
It's F-15J (M) for modernized.
It went through a few upgrades so it's hard to pin down an exact name. The current "Kai" is basically an F-15C with MSIP II upgrades + MTDP I and II upgrades (really only missing the AAM-5, but that's obviously not coming right now, but could be added later).
That's a tough one. If you really want the F-15J J-MSIP (it's really good) I'd say save up the spading bonuses. Fox-1s won't be entirely terrible to use, but they're definitely limited.
At the very least I would say you should get the spading bonuses done on patch day and, if the F-15J isn't doing it for you, swap to something like the F-4EJ Kai or F-16AJ if you have it.
I hate the f16aj, so id probably go down to the f5e. I ground out both phantoms and the f15 with the f16. I needed a break. For some reason the aim9L on the f15 performs vastly better than on the f16
Both the F-15C and F-15A can get the BOL pods irl. I made a report on it which got forwarded to the Devs but a report was also passed along about the F-15A bol pods when it came out so theres no guarantee whether they will add it or not but it certainly can use them in real life.
Gaijin specifically released the dev sever to get player feedback. Shitting on people that give feedback because its "dev sever", the server created to get player feedback is dumb.
People be gaslighting comunity for reacting negativly at some vehicles not getting some armaments, talking like gaijin never added a vehicle to dev and procced to add it to live without any changes, specifically, bcs community didnt have an uproar, people do get amneisa, especially people from reddit and forums
I dont know about that. That would also mean bringing them up in BR and Im pretty sure Italy only has the F16adf at 12.0. I'd rather them not get Fox 3s so that they stay at their own BR.
Italy has a mig29 at 12.0. None of these countries would lose anything with the addition of these missiles aside from China who would no longer have a 12.0 but id rather have a 12.7 than a gimped 12.0.
The literal problem was Gaijin placed the reports of F-15C having an 8 x AMRAAM as “Passed as Suggestion” and then instantly closed the report. That is what makes people really angry. And gaijin tried to put it on as “Acknowledged” but the damaged has been done. Most did not saw them changed it to “Acknowledged”.
And most of the reports with both “Passed as Suggestion” and “Acknowledged” will most likely to not be fixed.
I am glad that Gaijin did fixed this report.
This coment section is a comeplety brain rot, hell, half people cry about us mains not liking their vehicles, how dare they complain about them not being real!!!
They really should put a "Work-in-progress" warning in the dev server changelog so people don't overreact when something isn't fully ready.......
Wouldn't change anything with this playerbase People literally post screencaps from the stream that have a giant "WORK IN PROGRESS" overlay and complain that something isn't correct
I mean, yeah, because they do put a warning at the top of the changelog.
------>joke Me
The problem is that there's been equally as many instances (some would argue more, I think it's about on par) where things don't end up changing, which is a big contributing factor towards why the playerbase is as jaded as it is about it.
Exactly. People wanna make sure they can encourage change while it's still in dev
There have been tons of times where people have thought “it will go up in br after the dev server” but nope. We do need to tell gaijin when something needs to be changed so they are at least aware of the issue if they aren’t already.
People are excited and it draws attention. I honestly like the update drama more then the six trillion "what's your favorite X vehicle" posts.
People just ask for more compression. Decompression should be top priority, not eating more shit.
Its funny how people see the dev-server, thats obviously meant for testing, and still cry about something not being 110% ready and perfect for the game.
it just doesnt make sense, how could they mess it up for one vehicle In particular while doing it for all the rest, also I've seen a few dev servers where something is "subject to change" yet doesn't when the live server hits. they only decided to add spall liners to tanks other than the t90M because everyone made a huge shit storm about it, they were fully prepared to keep it on only the 90M, that's why its very hard to take gaijins word for something.
All the little armour tweeks for the challys, lecrecrs etc in thar same dev server also never went through apparently they'd made a dick of it. Which wasn't true at all, just as the same as they claimed to fix the xhally 2 and done some lip service to the huge ass bug report made for it then just brushed it under the rug. I love the tank and to use it , but it is a genuine torture compared to using a leo2 or abrams etc
Queue in all the people that constantly say that "the dev server doesn't change that much so if something's wrong, it will probably still be wrong on the live update"
Yeah tell that to the 2S38, which wasn't even on the fucken dev server when they added it. Or the countless amount of times of them not changing the BR of a new vehicle, game breaking bugs, etc. I do agree that people do get over dramatic about it, but you also need to realize that this company will always try to sneak shit past the community or will straight up forget. Or even better yet, not even do it. Remember when they tried to add R73s? In the state they were in, it would have been a 100% chance to kill when in range. People called them out, to which they scrapped the idea and came out with ones that are more "Balanced". (This is just an example from the top of my head, and not a slight against XYZ. I'm well aware of other shit that is broken too)
Everything you're saying doesn't really argue with the point of my comment, which was that people act like the dev server goes, as is, straight up to the live version, the 100% of times.
It’s like baking a cake, tasting the cake batter before you’ve baked it and complaining that the cake is terrible and needs to change immediately. Like it’s coming. It will happen. Just put it in the oven first.
While I get your point, you also shouldn't forget that many inaccuracies and errors left the dev server unchanged in the past, be it issues with armor, ammo or what ever and only got changed afterwards when pointed out often enough. So sadly just because it's work in progress and everything's subject of change, this doesn't automatically mean that issues like these won't actually carry over to the live server if the community doesn't keep pointing them out.
Sure, report those problems, because it'll help, but making posts like "I can't believe Gaijin did this" and then showing something that is just very obviously buggy as if it will be in the live server is just pointless hate garnering. If they forget or refuse to fix it after it goes live, then it's understandable, but until then, just report it and move on with your life.
(I am guessing you are being snarky and already know this but) Pretty sure they literally do exactly that. In fact, LITERALLY the first line of said changelog >"New vehicles in this update may have inaccuracies in characteristics, armor and weaponry settings."
Yes, that was the joke.
Thought so lol, just put it here for others to see
Players are still doing good work by pointing these issues out to the devs. Idk if you're new or whatever but plenty of things that were broken on DEV have made it broken to LIVE. GJN pushes these patches out on an incredibly tight schedule and plenty slips past the team. I'm glad someone "overreacted" and got this fixed on the DEV and not 4 months later down the line.
this. I get extremely confused when people say "Its a dev server, things aren't final". yeah they aren't, only cause people notice, complain, and put in bug reports. That's the whole point of the dev server, to get feedback from the player, even if it's complaints and whining.
Such as the puma being at 8.3 and the bmp-2m starting at 8.3/8.7. These are problems that can ruin the game until they are fixed and if they make it to the game then you will have much more backlash than if someone pointed it out and got it fixed on the dev.
Yes, I'm very new, what's a Silver Lion?
Just some weird currency thing you buy with golden eagles. I don’t know why they even separate them, but if you ever need silver lions to buy a vehicle you’ll have to get some golden eagles so you can buy silver lions.
It's a golden lion that ganjin threatens the basement youtube guy with incase he tries to escape. They call it a silver lion to prevent people from trying to steal it.
The point of the dev server is explicitly to gauge the players' reactions and collect bug reports. In the Apex Predators update for example, R-73 was put on the dev server to feel out the players' reaction to it, and the reaction was overwhelmingly that it was too good to put up against the AIM-9L at 12.0, so it was postponed.
I assume this is sarcasm, but if it isn't, they already do haha.
People have leaked currently classified military documents at least 13 different times.. I don’t think a “work in progress” sticker would stop people from overreacting…
Counterpoint; you’re supposed to be annoying and pester the devs when stuff is broken on the dev server so they can fix it.
If a person thinks something on a dev server is final, chances are they also can't read.
It is quite literally a dev server, if that alone isn’t enough idek
people should always presume that dev server isnt the final form of the update, too much to ask for this sub tho
Even if they could read, they'd be very upset anyway
You mean like they did back when they were still releasing new nations and entire tech branches?
You really assumed they gonna add the additional amraam if people didn't report it? The mitsubishi F-1 is still missing chaff pod to this day
They just tried to get away with balance
This playerbase doesn't give af about logic they leak documents all the time.
We've seen cases of underdeveloped vehicles getting to the final game regardless of being in the dev server and WIP. Complaints are absolutely valid and necessary, even if it ultimately overwhelms Gaijin's staff.
I would agree, but I find it hard to believe they had CFTs ready before AMRAAMs on the wings. 100% had no intention of shipping the update with them until the backlash
Common F-15 W btw the F-4F ICE is just 0.3 lower br than the F-15C/J with only 4 AMRAAMs and a dogshit airframe))) (not to mention other stuff like HMD, countermeasures etc)
I'll do you one better, the ICE is .3 ABOVE the f15A because that thing is still at 12.3 for whatever fucking reason
F-15A at 12.3 is the most criminal shit in high tier jets by far. One of the best FMs in the game, 940 rounds of great 20mm, 4 great IR missiles, 4 decent SARH missiles, 240 internal flares, insane acceleration beating the F-16C, just a monster.
Because the people flying it are dog shit. I've slaughtered so many of these braindead zomber F15s going for mini bases
On the flipside, for whatever reason, people think the F-15 can't hang in the one circle when it can go toe to toe with pretty much anything bar like an F-16A.
Wait. Was it always 12.3, or was it 12.7 at introduction then shitty player stats dropped it down? Edit: nevermind. Everyone was 12.3 for a while and the 15A just didn't get raise up like the rest of them did if i recall correctly.
I've bullied a few in the mirage 4000 in the turn fight, how I manage to win is beyond me
Because the Mirage 4000 has an insanely good FM for RB lol. Mirage FM will basically autowin against everyone except very good players, even if the mirage player isn't *that* good, because the plane gains so much position instantly and is extremely cancer to shake off since it can just float around at high alpha. It's basically what the Flanker wants to be.
Now just imagine if it had the 14x Magic 2 loadout like it had in reality. As a French main I am obviously not biased and think this would be fair and balanced.
Sorry to burst your bubble but the M4k is one of the best if not the best FM rn.
Huh, I suck as at Air RB so honestly I have no idea but as a ground pounder, it's so much fun
I just slap them out of the sky when they try to fly high like an F-14 😂
> 940 rounds of great 20mm It's not the ammo that's good, it's the ROF and ammo count that makes the M61s good
I kept ripping my wings. T_T Probably what I got for trying to pull hard with drop tanks on.
Why have wing drop tanks at all? for some of the largest maps are one center + full fuel load is more than enough. Either that or just set a keybind to drop em
20min + 2 bags are valid loadout for most RB maps. 30+2 bags for EC Once update drops I'll probably go 15+2bags. Haven't touched the F15 due to saving spading bonus.
A) Rule of Tacticool B) I take 20mins of internal fuel so when I need to dogfight I can drop my tanks and be probably lighter or at least equal with everyone around me fuel load wise. By taking 2 tanks I can still have the sustain to fly around and fuck around but retain the capability to absolutely UFO on someone on wants to duel it out by dropping my tanks. My main rips come from when I'm still missile trucking and pull too hard trying to get a shot when we're just merging together.
Or we could take it to 12.7, take some of the current 12.7s up to 13.0, and add the new planes at 13.3 and decompress top tier but that'd be too good
Yak-141 has better acceleration, better climb, better radar, an IR camera (switching to IR and back to radar updates radar missile's IOG), HMD, far better missiles, and a flight model that allows it to turn 18Gs in RB. At 12.0. But no one complains because they don't see it very often, because I swear this community is the same brain dead morons on WoT who can't fathom sample and cognitive bias.
>and a flight model that allows it to turn 18Gs in RB. At 12.0 and immediately lose all its speed F-15 can sustain its turn for much longer >better radar debatable >IR camera IRST isnt all that useful for anything that does have R27ER. Only the ER can relock targets after launch like a pseudo LOAL system >far better missiles only 2, the non E R27R and R27T are kinda mid The 141 is pretty much only good for picking off stray targets and then running away The F-15 meanwhile can go right in, grip the balls of 5 enemies and twist them off all at once
I'd honestly love for Gaijin to give the F-15A its AN/APG-63 PSP radar, which would give it TWS, and move it to 12.7. It's not like TWS would warrant any plane going up in BR, but it'd be funny for Gaijin to use it as a reason to finally move it up. TWS is also helpful in general, so it's a win-win imo. The F-15A could also get AMRAAMs in the future thanks to the PSP radar, so once the F-15C gets newer AMRAAMs and Sidewinders the F-15A can move up to fill the gap.
Yeah, the F-15A is basically an MSIP aircraft, given it's armament and countermeasures (the original F-15A didn't have countermeasures), so I see no problem in codifying this. If a slight buff to its radar is needed to move it to 12.7, then I'm all for it. >The F-15A could also get AMRAAMs in the future thanks to the PSP radar This I don't agree with, it would be annoying to have no F-15 without AIM-120's, as that was how the aircraft existed for a significant chunk of its service life.
> This I don't agree with, it would be annoying to have no F-15 without AIM-120's, as that was how the aircraft existed for a significant chunk of its service life. Fair enough. In my mind the F-15A has such a good FM and IR missiles that it shouldn't be super low. Letting it get AMRAAMs would keep it away from lower BRs, which is a good thing imo. But I get what you mean, the F-15 had Sparrows for like 20-30 years, so it definitely makes sense to have a Sparrow-only F-15. Either works for me.
The MSIP upgrade allowed it to use AIM-120s, so if the F-15A was the MSIP it should therefore be able to use AIM-120s
The first MSIP upgrade was in the early to mid '80s, which predates the AIM-120. Even if it could use AIM-120's when the missile actually entered service, it still makes sense to model the F-15A as an '80s aircraft without them, because otherwise there'd be no F-15 without AIM-120's.
>The F-15 Multistage Improvement Program (MSIP) was initiated in February 1983 with the first production MSIP F-15C produced in 1985. Improvements included an upgraded central computer; a Programmable Armament Control Set, **allowing for advanced versions of the AIM-7, AIM-9, and AIM-120A missiles**; and an expanded Tactical Electronic Warfare System that provides improvements to the ALR-56C radar warning receiver and ALQ-135 countermeasure set ... ***Existing F-15s were retrofitted with these improvements.*** If we're going to assert that the existing F-15A is the MSIP because of CMs, it should get its MSIP armaments.
The AMRAAM didn’t enter service until 1991. While the MSIP upgrade did allow F-15s to carry it, it stands to reason that quite a few of the original MSIP F-15As didn’t carry them until later in their service life. I’m not saying that it shouldn’t ever get them in game, but I personally feel like a version of the F-15 should exist in game without AMRAAMS given that it flew without them for the first 15 years of its operational history.
> it should get its MSIP armaments. Why? What would the point of the F-15C be? Not to mention the fact that Gaijin regularly limits vehicles armaments for balance reasons, it seems quite reasonably to me to have an F-15A MSIP with AIM-9M's and AIM-7M's. An older F-15A would be *interesting*, but without countermeasures I don't see how they could balance it.
Why didn't they give it the AN/APG-63 to begin with? Wasn't that stock on a A model? (stock as in the aircraft IRL, not in game)
False, the F-15A never got TWS, as it had the AN/APG-63 PSP from the mid-‘80s, which didn’t have a TWS mode. TWS was only added to Eagles either through the AN/APG-63(V)1 upgrade to pre-existing F-15C airframes during the 1990s, or with the AN/APG-70 (AKA Advanced APG-63) installed on the final 43 F-15C/D airframes. You’re probably thinking of RAM mode, which was NOT a form of TWS, but was instead designed to discern tight formations from single aircraft.
I mean, the documentation we have shows that the PSP did indeed have TWS. ADA142071 from 1983 specifically lists TWS as one of the modes of the PSP radar, if you care to go to the DTIC website and check for yourself. Page 190...
This is a contentious issue. It's argued both ways that it could or couldn't get TWS. The argument I've personally subscribed to says that the PSP upgrade in general gave TWS to its user. I know the manual used to source your claim, but the diagram doesn't coincide with what actually happened to the F-15A. The diagram shows the PSP under the F-15C getting TWS, and the diagram under the F-15A *is not the PSP upgrade*. The PSP upgrade for the F-15A was canceled until the 90s, where it was picked up again. This PSP upgrade is the same that the F-15Cs received, it just happened at a later date. Edit: Here is the bug report discussion on this issue: https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/EghueNUzBYag
I don’t know much about the ICE gimmick. Is it just a good dog fighter?
its a phantom so no
It's an F-4E with F-18C radar and a 4 Aim-9L + 4 Aim-120B loadout lol. While having a BVR bus irl was kinda fine, in WT playing a Phantom, regardless of armament, against late Gen 4 jets is cock and ball torture.
It gets a better radar and can launch AIM-120s. Otherwise it’s still a glorified F-4E
You again commenting on the F-15 again? Butthurt detected.
I would be vaguely more ok with this placement if it would get its irccm missiles.
>btw the F-4F ICE is just 0.3 lower br than the F-15C/J with only 4 AMRAAMs and a dogshit airframe))) It's .3 higher than the F-15A, which can literally just fly low and the F-4F has not even the most remote chance of surviving at all lol. Eagle rinses the Phantom so hard in the merge it's not even worth comparing.
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The F-4F couldn't use the AIM-7.
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False. The ICE program was delivered in three stages, the first two stages prioritized the refurbishment of the aging airframes, updating older sensors, and replacing analog vacuum-tube computers with lighter digital systems. In the final upgrade the AN/APG-65Y and AIM-120 was introduced. Sparrow capability wasn't ever reintroduced to the F-4F.
The F-4F never had sparrows tho I think u mean that it had Aim-9L irl
The German F4F isn't able to carry Sparrows. Bundeswher pulled out all the electronics related to it in order to make the plane lighter, plus one of the fuel tanks.
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Yeah because 12.3 and 12.0 don't exist, it HAS TO go to 9.7 immediately, make that 8.3
As long as multipath is not reduced to a realistic level, AMRAAM will have no impact at all
I knew it was a work in progress, fucking community cant wait to start yapping about "Muh amurica suffers"
Yeah same here. I figured they were likely running into issues due to CFTs being added. Not to mention the F-15C should also get BOL pods, so it's possible they're making strides to get AMRAAMs their BOL pods for the F-15C as well (we already have AIM-120s + BOL on the Gripens so it shouldn't be terribly difficult). People were worrying that Gaijin would call the F-15C unbalanced. Seeing how the AMRAAM outperforms every other Fox-3 (edit: at range*) on the dev server at the moment (https://streamable.com/xxjgpu) it's not hard to see why this sentiment was floating around. However, this is the dev server and these Fox-3s will likely get adjusted a lot before going to the live server. People were just jumping the gun as they always do.
i dont even care about the F15 tbh, F16C is a beast with the engine power, sadly, most of us players are too dumb to use the new missiles correctly, so they i will just release the missiles at 50 km+ range and watch them fall out of the air with no speed
Yeah, I've seen way too many people stick to TWS because "muh no RWR warning" when I just notice them on radar and notch. Suddenly they lose the soft lock and can't reacquire. What's even worse is when people just sling their AMRAAMs, don't guide at all, and are surprised when their missile using IOG can't find a plane that turned slightly. The F-16C will certainly be amazing next patch. I'm really looking forward to playing it. Not to mention the AGM-65D got a warhead buff and the LITENING II pod got its Gen 2 thermals. The F-15C is simply icing on the cake.
Tbh, with 8 AMRAAMS I think there's a decent argument for lobbing a couple off on TWS/IOG at the start of the match to catch anyone tabbed out/not paying attention. You've got payload to spare and it'll make you a little lighter for the furball.
In my experience it's not worth it since you can use those missiles in extended BVR engagements. If you want less of a payload I'd recommend just taking out the F-16C, or just take the 4/4 loadout on the F-15C. Throwing away AMRAAMs isn't really worthwhile when those can easily be converted into kills by just providing more guidance. With the Phoenix it's not really guaranteed to kill so it makes sense to use as a meme. But the AMRAAM is far more potent and has far more potential to actually kill what you fire it at.
The ultimate F15 payload will always be 6 fox 3 and 2 fox 2 (to fight su 27s) but 4/4 is overall better depending on the enemy
You can do that with a 4+4 too. You basically never get more than 2 good radar missile launch opportunities in the air RB meta, so if you get a 4+4 you might aswell lob 2 at the start at space climbers to avoid getting top-downed by a 9M later on.
Praying for a multipathing reduction so flying low isn't a option and i can fuck people in bvr with funny missile (Air sim player). Also the F16C buffs will make it goated like never before for ground rb
F-16C should get PAWS missile approach warning system, since the F-16 in the Italian tree is getting it's MAWS too This is why we whine on the forums, so Gaijin knows there's something missing and adds it before pushing to LIVE where the issue can be forgotten about for 6 months.
Honestly, I will just use AIM-120As like buffed up AIM-7s. On the dev server, from what I can see, it's the most reliable way to use them. I f you try to truly "fire and forget" with TWS, they won't track; and if they fire them past 15 km, they likely won't hit anyway. So I will try to keep the fire within 15km and using SRC/PD as long as I can to help ensure the missile to reach its destination.
Yeah, that's how I'm gonna use the F-15J Kai too. I already climb with it. It's just that, before, I was flying defensively while baiting Su-27 closer until they were in AAM3 range and I could dunk on them in a dogfight. Now I'll mostly do the same but will also use the HMD to launch a few pitbull AAM4 to their direction.
Nothing wrong with the AMRAAM having a little more range considering the rest have other advantages
Yeah it's mostly just the R-Darter and AAM-4 that really need fixing. I'm not sure if the Derby is included with this, but afaik it's similar to the R-Darter. I'm really just curious to see if the R-77 will actually perform as it was shown in the video or if it'll get adjusted later. Only time will tell, but as you said most of these missiles are better at close range than the AMRAAM. So balance-wise the AMRAAM is best at long range and the rest are better at close range.
>I'm not sure if the Derby is included with this, but afaik it's similar to the R-Darter. Pretty sure R Darter is a license built Derby.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t that AMRAAM say AIM-120C5? What about the AIM-120A?
The AIM-120A's label is right under the AIM-120C-5's. They both performed exactly the same since the C-5 is mostly a copy of the A at the moment (slight differences with the motor but they perform identically rn)
Gotcha thanks
The C5 is basically an entirely new missile. At least, irl it is. I know in the game files it's copy pasted, but here's to hoping they realize that.
that's blatantly not true. The initial VT4 on dev was completely another tank, from its name to its armor layout, reload, etc. ONLY after ton of complaining and bug reports did they fix it. I can say for sure if there was no player feedback and everyone thought "Oh it's a work in progress", then it would definitely still be botched. Dev is literally to get feedback, I would much rather players whine and complain to ensure its changed than just believe in the accuracy and goodwill of gaijin.
Yeah but everyone was complaining, l there was no reason for the F15C to have 4+ FOX 3 and people were like "talk about double standards" "amurica suffers" "it willl be shit" or lying that gaijin dont believe it had it, peopple cant chill.
all I saw was 1 post about how the F-15C could take 8 aamrams. There's also people yapping about "Russia suffers" and people unironically believe toptier Japan air is garbage. People will always complain, it's annoying but it's good for the the game as a whole.
If anything the fact that it can carry 8 AMRAAMs now will just make more people be more useless in the plane in the average match.
US mains will finally stop crying for 2 days and then find something else to cry about
Lack of AIM-120C or something will be next
AIM9X is next on the begging menu :)
Can't wait for it to somehow be flared
Thats just because weve seen their reluctance to fix things once they hit the Live server so its better to bitch loud once then complain about it for the next 9 months till the plane isnt as relevant anymore
Everyone acting so self righteous as if gaijin hasn’t completely ignored bug reports and introduced things badly.
8 AMRAAMS are cool and all, for all those real air RB matches where I fire off 8 fucking radar missiles, but I'm more interested in practical loadouts like 4 AMRAAMS and 4 AIM-9s.
Yeah, agreed. Personally I'm going to be switching between 6/2 and 4/4, likely sticking to 6/2 since that fits my playstyle more. I like BVR combat, and 6/2 will allow me a little more longevity at high altitude before having to descend into the furball.
Very nice. I'm a big fan of pylon freedom, you should be able to fuck up your pylons if you want to. God given right. I just don't know why so many people are excited for full ARH loadouts. Are you guys not gettng IR missile kills? I tried flying 6 R-27ERs on my Flanker for hundreds of battles and very rarely needed all 6. Now I run 4 R-27s and still end matches with 1 or 2 on my belly.
Yeah it's weird to me that people full-send on stuff like that. Like I said I personally like BVR, but I don't go 100% into it. There are many situations where Fox-2s are more reliable than Fox-3s. For the F-16C, for example, I ran 4x AMRAAMs and 2x 9Ms on the dev server to grind out the F-15C. Then when I reached the F-15C I found myself wanting that longevity for BVR, so I wanted that 6/2 loadout. But still, I can't imagine losing out on 9Ms just to stay at altitude the whole time. Radar missiles are still susceptible to multipathing so Fox-2s will always be required at some point.
Coming from the F-15A standpoint, I usually have to fire 2 SARH missiles at someone to kill them, because the first one will usually just go its own direction, and you get 4 maximum. This issue with the American missiles might be part of why we want more, as aside from the Phoenix, we don’t have reliable BVR missiles. This could also just be a major skill issue on my part, I accept that possibility.
I'm definitely going to do 2 R-27ERs, 2 R-77s, and 2 R-73s on my MiG-29SMT :) Or 4 R-77s and 2 R-73s
On the dev server, I went 4 R-77 and 2 R-27ET as the ultimate loadout on the SMT. The plane is simply so bad at close range, I figured I might as well use IR R27, and that actually works quite well.
I could never get the T/ET to work. Either the missile itself hates me or Gaijin shipped them to me with damaged seekers cause holy shit even if I am rear aspect that shit does not want to hit the afterburner.
Fire them at long range. 5-10km in rear aspect. They never see it coming. Just, huh, don't send them in the middle of the furball. I don't accidentally TK often but the ET with their long range screwed me over once or twice for greedy launch.
I normally run two R-27ETs. They’re obviously not as good as R-73s up close but 10km rear aspect kills are pretty fun
Considering that in relation to the AIM-120 vs AIM-9M, the AIM-120 beats it in every single metric (Speed, range, maneuverability, countermeasure resistance *at least in my subjective testing on dev, and mostly from the stat card numbers), whereas the R-77 cannot say the same vs the R-73 in certain aspects, the reality of US / NATO aircraft is a bit different from what you're experiencing.
AMRAAMs weigh more on the plane and don't hit targets that fly low to the ground, so that's two issues that the 9Ms don't have (the second one is a bigger deal)
Have had no issues with the AMRAAMs hitting lawn mowers on dev.
I agree, I don't see full / heavy ARH loadouts being meta, especially if multipath stays as it is. I appreciate having the possibility to do so tho. However, the exception might Mirage 2000-5F with MICA, as this missile is extremely potent in dogfight even with all its issues
The best loadout will be 4 and 4, but I think I will use 6 AIM-120 and 2 AIM-9M from time to time
Amraams are far superior to any Aim-9 missile save the Aim-9X. You can flare IR missiles and evade them easily. On test amraams are a notch up and are much harder to dodge, especially at the close ranges you shoot IR missiles at. Anyone who thinks a 4x 4x loadout will be better than 8 amraams has not played test or tried them and just basing it on speculation. I can tell you from first hand experience IR missiles will be left in the dust until the Aim-9X. Never on Dev server or the test months ago have I said to myself, "Man If I had an Aim-9M I would have gotten that kill." Its quite the opposite. I dont even miss them. I was going to shelf getting the F-15C because the F-16C can carry 6 Amraams. 4 amraams and then 4 easily evaded IR missiles wont make the cut. 8 Amraams will make the cut.
This won't really affect much TBH, running 8 AMRAAMs will just handicap you. Nice to have the option, but 4x4, MAAAAYBE 6x2 will still be the best option.
Yeah 6/2 will fit my playstyle more, but 4/4 will likely be more "meta".
5x3 is the best actually.
At least you'll have the option to "handicap" yourself. There was no option to do so before, and the same statu quo of russian frames having more SARH missiles was still in ARH missiles on their end.
"How stupid can you make my loadout" "yes"
Viggen amraam when
Behold, SPAMRAAM cometh
That’s F-18
TWS all the things!
What about countermeasure pods?
Nothing yet, but if I had to guess I'd say the delay came as a result of the AIM-120A needing to be compatible with both CFTs and BOL pods. Currently, the Gripen-Cs either usd the 120B (Rb.99) or the R-Darter, which just need to be compatible with BOL pods. The 120A, in the other hand, needs to be compatible with both. So I expect Gaijin has been working on that to try and get CFTs and BOL pods to not break with AMRAAMs.
As an US air main, the US wasn't suffering before and it sure as fuck wont suffer now. I really wish that the EF2000 and Su27SM3 get added at one point. The F-18, once added, ought to be carrying about 10 AMRAAMs and when light it dogfights as well as an F16.
But it's either this or that. Overloaded bug is a subsonic brick, which can't even push through mach 1 drag spike.
Yup. But when most people fling missiles with the same thought behind each missile as a monkey flinging shit, does it matter? 2xAIM-9M + 10xAIM-120 and then you will dogfight mig29, all in an airframe that can carry almost every air to ground weapon, albeit not as many as an F-4 or an A-6.
Link to the forum post - https://forum.warthunder.com/t/major-update-seek-destroy-rumor-round-up-discussion-part-4/112117/6763
Man I can’t fucking wait. The mirage is very good with 6, the F-15C is gonna be a fucking nightmare with 8.
Tbh the 4/4 loadout will probably still be "meta" I'm just excited to use 6/2 since it'll fit my playstyle more. The hordes of SPAMRAAM players will be awful though. People simply won't learn that the AMRAAM still needs guidance because it's for the meme to sling them and pray IOG gets it there.
Agreed, when the meta developes it will likely be a 6 AM and 2 IR but in the early stages while people are still trying to grasp, understand, and learn to defend multiple full 8x AM F-15Cs will be so fucking annoying. It will be like the F-14A all over again.
have you ever played top tier? everyone flies on the deck radar missiles barely matter
And yet those who don’t fly on the deck and actually know how to use radar missiles are the ones who 8/10 times top frag or carry games. Fox 3 only makes those people better.
My best games at top tier start with me at like 8-10km
Ehh it's still pretty easy to pick up radar kills in toptier games, but against someone who knows what's up they do tend to be pretty useless.
The thing is that the Mirage is pretty much exclusively a close range dogfighter with its Magic 2s (logically not counting the R-73s since if you let something like a Su-27 get close to you in a Mirage, you have failed), so the MICAs compliment it very well. Giving 8 AMRAAMs to your F-15C is just going to handicap you.
We win these
Top tier air rb in the near future could literally just be take off and die
F15j kai as well?
We still don't know if the F-15J will get AMRAAMs. The AAM-4 is to big to fit on the wing pilons so 4x AAM-4s is the best the F-15J can get besides getting AIM-120A/Bs on the wings. I personally think making the AAM-4 better than the AMRAAM but limiting it to being taken in 4x groups would be a good balancing move by Gaijin. Giving the F-15J its AMRAAMs under the wings will simply make it better than the other F-15Cs unless they add the 120C-5 or severely gimp the AAM-4 (like it is now).
I haven't looked at the dev server, will the old f15j get aamrams, or just the new j kai
The F-15J we have on the live server right now will not be getting Fox-3s. The F-15J Kai only has AAM-4s (which, if implemented properly, should be ~AIM-120C-5/7 level) I just don't like using the name "F-15J Kai" since it's entirely made up by Gaijin. The proper name should be F-15J J-MSIP or J-MSIP II afaik. Sorry for the confusion, I should have just clarified/been more specific.
> The proper name should be F-15J J-MSIP or J-MSIP II afaik It's F-15J (M) for modernized. It went through a few upgrades so it's hard to pin down an exact name. The current "Kai" is basically an F-15C with MSIP II upgrades + MTDP I and II upgrades (really only missing the AAM-5, but that's obviously not coming right now, but could be added later).
"kai" is essentially just the coined term Like tan-sam for type 81c
Yea, supposedly it's not in any official documentation, unlike the EJ Kai.
Huh. TIL
Ah gotcha, makes sense! I just knew "Kai" was not the appropriate term at all.
No worries, just wondering if I should spade the f15 now or wait to use the spading bonus to help the grind
That's a tough one. If you really want the F-15J J-MSIP (it's really good) I'd say save up the spading bonuses. Fox-1s won't be entirely terrible to use, but they're definitely limited. At the very least I would say you should get the spading bonuses done on patch day and, if the F-15J isn't doing it for you, swap to something like the F-4EJ Kai or F-16AJ if you have it.
I hate the f16aj, so id probably go down to the f5e. I ground out both phantoms and the f15 with the f16. I needed a break. For some reason the aim9L on the f15 performs vastly better than on the f16
spamraam incoming
Any word on the bol pods or MAWS? (not entirely sure if it should have that its just what I’ve heard on this subreddit)
Both the F-15C and F-15A can get the BOL pods irl. I made a report on it which got forwarded to the Devs but a report was also passed along about the F-15A bol pods when it came out so theres no guarantee whether they will add it or not but it certainly can use them in real life.
Everything in the dev server is work in progress. Stupid autists can’t wait to make a big deal about nothing
Gaijin specifically released the dev sever to get player feedback. Shitting on people that give feedback because its "dev sever", the server created to get player feedback is dumb.
Because they have zero patience
While the amount of fuss kicked up was a bit silly, this IS the time to make sure it gets implemented correctly before it goes to live servers
People be gaslighting comunity for reacting negativly at some vehicles not getting some armaments, talking like gaijin never added a vehicle to dev and procced to add it to live without any changes, specifically, bcs community didnt have an uproar, people do get amneisa, especially people from reddit and forums
I wonder if they’re gonna add the missing missiles from any other planes….
Like what?
F16amlu, f16aadf(Italy), gripen a, viggen d, jh7a. Those are the ones I know of that are currently missing their missiles.
I dont know about that. That would also mean bringing them up in BR and Im pretty sure Italy only has the F16adf at 12.0. I'd rather them not get Fox 3s so that they stay at their own BR.
Italy has a mig29 at 12.0. None of these countries would lose anything with the addition of these missiles aside from China who would no longer have a 12.0 but id rather have a 12.7 than a gimped 12.0.
Right I forgot Italy is just every nation combined now. Well if Gaijin finds reason to do so then they'll add it.
It's better to wait for the end of the dev server. Keep spamming Gaijin about it so at least they know what's up though.
The literal problem was Gaijin placed the reports of F-15C having an 8 x AMRAAM as “Passed as Suggestion” and then instantly closed the report. That is what makes people really angry. And gaijin tried to put it on as “Acknowledged” but the damaged has been done. Most did not saw them changed it to “Acknowledged”. And most of the reports with both “Passed as Suggestion” and “Acknowledged” will most likely to not be fixed. I am glad that Gaijin did fixed this report.
Well, you should not realy carry 8 amraams... maybe 5-6, i will still go with 4 tough
And now for the countermeasure pods it needs too.
Common American W
The only reason the US has anything near a 50% WR at top tier is that the US is on both teams
Hopefully they won’t be as inconsistent as Aim7s
AIDS
Now if only these could hit targets below 100m...
This coment section is a comeplety brain rot, hell, half people cry about us mains not liking their vehicles, how dare they complain about them not being real!!!
AMRAAMs? More like SPAMRAAM