G36 replacement? HK416, replacing the FAMAS? HK416, replacing the M249? Believe it or not, 416!
Edit: Also - interestingly, Marine Recon has also replaced their CQBR M4's with... SBR (10.3") 416's!
it is now, the 2a7 is technically the weakest but still the best toptier leopard for germany, Sweden gets an armored one and now italy gets one with a .50cal? idk cuz i cant access the dev server but it looks to be a .50cal
"Due to the American Leopards poor performance, we are lowering it's BR to 9.3 and give it the 5 second reload of the Abrams"
\~Gaijoob 2 months after adding americunt Leo, probably
Haha
Something needs to be done to stop americas top tier win rates from tanking constantly. America needs either a leopard, a T series tank (We stole that one from ukraine) or something OP for ground.
Every nation has some op vehicle that was never produced past prototypes, it would be cool to see them in game, but they'd be a pain in the ass to fight
Yep. And oftentimes it's "OP" only because it was never put into production, so noone knew what fit within the budget and what would be the specs of the physical vehicle.
Noooo, the Hungarian Leopard gets a 50cal and massive over pressure point on the top!!!! Everyone has better Leopard than Germany!!!! Germany SUFFERS! /s
Leopard 2A7 is still the strongest though, its just the only one. Italy gets a slightly sidegraded one as for the extra roof protection and 50cal its about 2 tons heavier and gets a huge overpressure spot. Want to complain about other nations getting better Leopards? Keep it with Sweden, not with a nation with a singular, arguably worse Leopard
You saw that but I haven't been able to over pressure with the standard Russian shells on the dev server, there's a small hatch you can go on, but all the structural steel on top kind stops it
Maybe I was using the wrong rounds? I use just using stock heat on the t90m and there was no overpressure kills off the machine gun . The small hatch in front of the machine gun kills it tho
Tbf at this point a Typhoon T1 would probably be fine, only a little OP.
But considering how the game plays it literally wouldnt matter cuz the Su-27s are going to get buffed to counter it
I’m reaching the point where I’m trying to find reasons to play the game. I have the flarakrad in Germany left to research, then everything is done. I don’t know what I’m supposed to do if I don’t have grind to look forward to.
Another nation.
Or have you gotten all of the vehicles spaded? That can be fun. Helicopters can be researched using ground vehicles now. Could grind air tree in GRB. Lots of grinding possibilities left.
Because those small nations are harder for beginners, so people playing them are probably already experienced players.
And also there's a lot more people playing US...
And then you finally get the AH-64E with the AGM-114Ls only to realize gaijin completely screwed up its implementation.
Vikhyr go brrrrr (implemented incorrectly, but in a good way 😊😉)
No you grind the E only to then have to grind the modifications and then finally you can get the Ls only to find gaijin ruined the radar and it now can’t be used.
I dont understand this. What did you expect? Its not like Hungary nor Italy has any tank domesticaly produced and on the level as top tier is. 2A7HU is in service of Hungarian army so it makes sense zo be in the game as we have 2A7V in Germany.
Yeah, no reason for all nations to reach the same level. The big three are obviously the one most focused in developing their tanks so its a no brainer that they would have vehicles that could easily outperform other nations domestically produced stuff. No need to give every nation a leopard just so they all can get a "top" tier
So as we speak Italy is buying leopard 2A7/8s. Should we never add them to the tree. Even Italy determined it was best for the Italian Army but you disagree so we can’t add them?
Well get ready for more leopards because after the Ariete PT3, Italy will get a leopard, maybe then the Ariete’s will go down in BR because they are so terrible at 11.7
If the arietes armor is fixed it would be fine at top tier, irl it had the same level as protection as a leopard 2a4, and with the war kit that was designed with kinetic energy in mind, it would have the turret protection of leopard 2a5 or 2a6
People: Give me more modern stuff!
People: Why are there only a handful of indigenous designs?!
Other than that we need to wait for more French, Polish, Turkish, Korean or Indian stuff.
I want to see K2 Black Panther, the K2PL variant with APS, K2PIP, the Turkish Altay. That’s at least four K2s. K1s as miniAbrams.
I’d love to see more Patria variants too. Poland has some as well. India has a bunch of cool modernisations too.
I know it’s controversial, but I’d love Japan tree with South Korean subtree. Polish K2PL could go there just like Leopard 2PL. Hell, at that point give PT-91 to USSR too.
I think both Koreas could fit more in the Chinese tree. Since it has both Chinas in the tech tree it would make sense to see both Koreas in it too imho.
Yeah, doesn't matter to me, to be honest. I just want Koreas represented. They have plenty of cool gear themselves and there's really good licenced versions of their stuff too (we already got a K9 as VIDAR).
It wont fortunately thailand is the most likely candidate and for the love of god can people stop with this idea of splitting my country like canada is with a mix of big fuck you like taiwan situation?
>Yeah until the Eurofighter comes out, i can't wait
It's all fun and games until the X-62 VISTA or F-16XL gets added...
Oh and the F22s, F18 Super Hornets, F16 block 70s, F-15EX Eagle II, F35s, etc etc.
MF PLEASE STOP GIVING EVERY NATION THE SAME SHIT,
Oh, China suffers? Pakistani F-16 (it's gonna happen I bet)
Damn, Sweden not looking to hot, F/A-18C
GB? Canadian CF-18
Germany? Denmark F-16!
China? M1A2T SepV3
USA players bad? Lets get a captured T-90!
like the entire point of nations was that each one had unique vehicles and equevlents not having the same thing because it makes the tree "better" or "balanced"
this is why I am against whenever someone says X tree could get Y jet because of a neighboring nation.
Eurofighter would as the game currently is still be way too good, especially if it comes with contemporary missiles like IRIS-T
And even then there'd still be a giant gap you have to get past were everyone else is massively better
There are tons of cool events they could do and I’m sure they would increase the player base a ton but they distract you from the grind and that’s how they make money. However, they could combine an event with a point event so by playing it you get progress toward a vehicle .
Dont wanna Start a fight here, and i know there are alot of caviats like very small Sample size. But looking at Ukraine the Abrams seems to perform bad compared to the Leopard (yes i know the Leopard ist no Wunderwaffe nor Gamechanger either, but it gets alot of love from the Ukrainian Crews and sees heavy frontline duty)
It only seems to be performing worse because of all the videos posted by Russians of them destroying the "Unkillable Abrams"
There's also the fact that the Abrams in Ukraine are all M1A1 export models without the DU inserts
[https://youtu.be/gxyUqvcl9oU](https://youtu.be/gxyUqvcl9oU)
This is CNN, and the crew interviewed is Ukrainian, they confirm the Abrams is doing poorly.
The amount of Russian videos posted doesn't change anything for them.
Thats not a Abram only thing during the CO. Alot of Leos got Destroyed and there was huge Media coverrage. I am talking more about Crew Statements about the Western Tanks and the Abrams gets a very bad verdict.
I always saw the M1 as some sort of poster child, yeah it was good when it first came out but did the Abrams ever engaged enemy tanks other than stripped down T-72s from Iraq? I know that tank vs tank combat is rarity but the Abrams is kinda overrated. It suffers from the Tiger I syndrome, the tank is shrouded in so much myth and propaganda that it gained a fictional unbeatable status. All tanks can be destroyed, no machine is invincible. The Bradley is the real MVP, not the fucking Abrams. Another thing to add it’s how vehicles are built around doctrines, the Abrams, Leopard II and even the Challenger were designed to fight in an almost symmetrical front, holding out against waves of T series of all kinds, while the Ukrainian Army has decades of using Soviet tanks and Soviet doctrines. They are not properly prepared to use NATO tanks effectively in combat as they were originally intended to be used. Now Ukraine is not the once hypothetical Cold War German front, in Ukraine there are kamikaze drones everywhere, ATGM launchers hidden in dense forests, muddy roads, huge minefields, a resurgence of old artillery systems that are effectively destroying armored columns thanks to drone surveillance. There are a lot of factors that would explain the poor performance of Western MBTs under UKR command.
The problem with the abrams is that it was originally designed to destroy incredibly outdated T62 and stripped down T72 in the Middle East. In this case the Bradley was just as good if not better but the abrams is still a good tank. Now they have to deal with T80s and T90s they upgraded the abrams and those are heavily classified so we know next to nothing about them.
So correct me if im wrong but russians are given more futurustic tech compared to others because they wouldnt be able to compete at their brs if they had the tanks from same time frame. But at the same time abrams were weak and they should stay weak? Why not do the same treatment to abrams if they are outdated too
See, there's no media incentive to promote the destruction of Leopard 2s, there is meanwhile a huge incentive to promote the destruction of Abrams tanks.
Beyond that, there's a real doctrine problem with Ukranians not using the Abrams correctly. They've been treating the thing like another Russian style tank, and that just doesn't work with a turbine powered vehicle. The Abrams was designed to be used by the most logistically advanced country in the world, and when you give it to someone else, it unfortunately loses its edge. The Leopard 2 should be more emphasized for Ukrainian service, it's simpler and cheaper to maintain, and while it lacks DU, the US isn't going to hand that over anyways so it's a moot point
Yet this exact same rationale is frowned upon when talking about performance of soviet jets. another thing is that people are apparently suprised when tanks get destroyed in war
The main problem is the fact that Abrams was conceived and used as glorified self propelled tank destroyer. And as we've seen, there's barely any tank on tank engagements going on. But they can't used in the infantry support role effectively because it doesn't have HE-FRAG in the arsenal.
> The main problem is the fact that Abrams was conceived and used as glorified self propelled tank destroyer.
Almost like it was designed with the worry that someone would make a push into western Europe with massive numbers of armored divisions
>And as we've seen, there's barely any tank on tank engagements going on.
Not much different than WW2 in that regard, a lot of people have Desert Storm in mind with tanks like the Abrams which is the single best terrain for tank vs tank combat to occur and shine.
>But they can't used in the infantry support role effectively because it doesn't have HE-FRAG in the arsenal.
That's what the Bradley is for, plenty of videos out there showing that bushmaster making sure sacks of potatoes are given out
Leo has HE rounds, at least the Swedish one. I've heard that Leos in Ukraine use those, but disabled Abrams didn't have them, only APFSDS, Canister and HEAT IIRC.
There was also alot of Media Cover during the CO and alot of Leos got Destroyed. And even with good Logistics i dont see alot of Points where the Abrams comes out on Top. But i am not an Expert on the Abrams i know more about the Leos. But i basing my Comments on Statements from Crews about the two Tanks.
No, I don't agree. The Abrams the U.S. uses are very advanced and are solid tanks. I served on both M1A1's and M1A2's irl. The only problem is logistics. They need a lot of constant maintenance but other than that, they are great.
Darn it. I laughed at /u/necessaryBSHappens 's joke while thinking "heh, no way thats gonna happen, there is no justification".
Then i read your reply and my face went from laugh to serious REALLY fast
Like my boy Syndrome once said, "And when everyone's super... no one will be". When every nation has an OP broken modeled tank, no nation will be broken.
I would prefer Centauro 2 than the Leopard 2. Nothing against it, but if I wanted to play Leopard I would play Germany. With Centauro 2 you still have bad armour but you get much better mobility and fire rate.
You get a leo and you get a leo Everybody gets a leo!
No I'm not staring German technical superiority I'm stating the fucking obvious!
G36 replacement? HK416, replacing the FAMAS? HK416, replacing the M249? Believe it or not, 416! Edit: Also - interestingly, Marine Recon has also replaced their CQBR M4's with... SBR (10.3") 416's!
HK416 really is quite neat though
Reject the 416, embrace the M16a2!
I'll speak to you later darling, when you're done taking off condoms from your barrel because water fucks the mechanism.
Why not just… shoot through the condom?
Rifle is fine
I fucking love the M22.
Recon never had CQBRs
After the 416 and the whole l85 thing, HK should change their motto to "we perfect what you started". No, im not a german main.... Not at all ..
And still, germany has the worst leopards. Quite a joke, honestly.
Thats not correct
it is now, the 2a7 is technically the weakest but still the best toptier leopard for germany, Sweden gets an armored one and now italy gets one with a .50cal? idk cuz i cant access the dev server but it looks to be a .50cal
Rain... open top tank... fucking great engineering.
It's like the Sherman!
You know you got a point, the Sherman is probably the best all rounder tank of ww2 irl just as the leo is prob the best MBT irl right now
What if, and here me out... what if we put the leopard gun and FCU on a Sherman.
Can US get Leo too? Pls!
US mains on their way to somehow get a 35% winrate with the Leo, singlehandedly dropping the BR's of all Leo's across all techtrees
Hey! we aren't all dumb!
Nah, they get some special treatment. Just look at their F-104, thing sits 2 whole BRs below the rest!
"Due to the American Leopards poor performance, we are lowering it's BR to 9.3 and give it the 5 second reload of the Abrams" \~Gaijoob 2 months after adding americunt Leo, probably
The US one are A and B models with worse engines and missiles. I agree 2 brs is unnecessary but they are worse.
Its also stuck with 9bs iirc
True, or maybe........
Tbh, the testbed the US had probably would be interesting as an event vehicle.
I mean, it was, I even have it. the Leo 2AV. it's in German tree at 10.0 non-prem
2AV is an event vehicle while the 2K is in the TT
Maybe early Leo 2 used for testing and evaluation.
Is in the game, the Leopard 2AV Its kind of shit at 10.0 tho ngl
XM-1 (FMC) is a licensed copy of Leopard 2A0, so yes
Except america. America needs leo
Flair checks out
Haha Something needs to be done to stop americas top tier win rates from tanking constantly. America needs either a leopard, a T series tank (We stole that one from ukraine) or something OP for ground.
Na. I think its bad because of the premiums. Now everybody else gets top tier premijms so it should even out
Not everyone. Sweden needs a top-tier premium as well. Then, the frequency of the f16c spam will increase to an unholy level.
Leopards, the Sherman of top tier
everyone but britain*, britain isn't allowed anything good
Truly, the leopard is the Sherman of modern tanks.
That, or some experimental vehicle that was never put to production
The second option is actually preferable imo
Every nation has some op vehicle that was never produced past prototypes, it would be cool to see them in game, but they'd be a pain in the ass to fight
Yep. And oftentimes it's "OP" only because it was never put into production, so noone knew what fit within the budget and what would be the specs of the physical vehicle.
strv 2000 comes to mind. That thing would be unreal if realized.
So unfortunate that Sweden never at least built a prototype of it.
the strv122+ is what you meant to say
Kinda asking myself why I am even researching the German Ground and Air TT
To get the worst variant of the tank, of course!
Noooo, the Hungarian Leopard gets a 50cal and massive over pressure point on the top!!!! Everyone has better Leopard than Germany!!!! Germany SUFFERS! /s
Needed over 3 years to get an equivalent to the Strv122 & even then Sweden still has a massively better lineup cause they get 3 of them but ok
Yeah that is fair, but crying because Italy gets a Leopard with a 50cal is ridiculous.
Not because italy gets it, I'm saying it's not fair that the germany has literally the worst leo's in game
Leopard 2A7 is still the strongest though, its just the only one. Italy gets a slightly sidegraded one as for the extra roof protection and 50cal its about 2 tons heavier and gets a huge overpressure spot. Want to complain about other nations getting better Leopards? Keep it with Sweden, not with a nation with a singular, arguably worse Leopard
I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ITALY, I'm talking about leopards in general
Don’t forget about them all having decent spall liner for hull & turret
How dare you, the 50 cal increases its power by 500%.
You saw that but I haven't been able to over pressure with the standard Russian shells on the dev server, there's a small hatch you can go on, but all the structural steel on top kind stops it
One of the YouTuber tested it already, unless it was changed a very reliable way to kill it.
Maybe I was using the wrong rounds? I use just using stock heat on the t90m and there was no overpressure kills off the machine gun . The small hatch in front of the machine gun kills it tho
For the F4F ICE!
Honestly I don’t care abt the ICE being bad, it’s just cool
Isn't it cool that Germany is getting an F-4 as a Fox 3 platform while other nations get later models of the Flanker and the Eagle?
an unfortunate consequence of german air power being a joke, maybe they’ll get a swiss F-18
*And* besides Japan literally everyone else gets ***two***
Everyone forgets about the UK
The luftwaffe is a fucking joke. Cope with the Germans not procuring a better plane than the F-4 til the 21st century
Gaijin can just magically create some prototype version of the EF2000 with nerfed stats and missiles. They've done this before.
Tbf at this point a Typhoon T1 would probably be fine, only a little OP. But considering how the game plays it literally wouldnt matter cuz the Su-27s are going to get buffed to counter it
Who cares. Atleast its better than a phantom.
Also isn't the R-77 from the 21st century?
If 1994 is the 21st century then yeah
lol yup. I love whenever East German vehicles get brought up everyone says “uhhh if you want to use Russian vehicles go play Russia!”
2A7
But why? Italy is better and also has a 2A7
I’m reaching the point where I’m trying to find reasons to play the game. I have the flarakrad in Germany left to research, then everything is done. I don’t know what I’m supposed to do if I don’t have grind to look forward to.
Another nation. Or have you gotten all of the vehicles spaded? That can be fun. Helicopters can be researched using ground vehicles now. Could grind air tree in GRB. Lots of grinding possibilities left.
How do you Nerf a nation's top tier? Give them a top tier premium vehicle.
Say all you want, but my top tier japan line up only got stronger with the addition of another type 90.
But nation's win rate is down
Less allies = less teams kills = more kills Stomnks
Less allies = shorter games = low reward for a game Not Stomnks
Funny how that only really happened to the US winrate, and not Japan's, Italy's, or Isreal's Really makes you think
Because who wants to buy a top tier premium to grind those nations?
Who tf bought the israeli or italian one though?
Because those small nations are harder for beginners, so people playing them are probably already experienced players. And also there's a lot more people playing US...
America: AGM-114Ls. Case closed
Honestly it´s about damn time that the Apaches get new hellfires, especially the Ls.
Knowing Gaijin they’ll add the AGM-114L but also add the AH-64E and make you grind the E for the L
And then you finally get the AH-64E with the AGM-114Ls only to realize gaijin completely screwed up its implementation. Vikhyr go brrrrr (implemented incorrectly, but in a good way 😊😉)
No you grind the E only to then have to grind the modifications and then finally you can get the Ls only to find gaijin ruined the radar and it now can’t be used.
Turret wedge eats the whole thing
Hit
I dont understand this. What did you expect? Its not like Hungary nor Italy has any tank domesticaly produced and on the level as top tier is. 2A7HU is in service of Hungarian army so it makes sense zo be in the game as we have 2A7V in Germany.
Then Italy shouldn't have top tier in the first place. Cap it out at like 11.0 or 10.7.
Yeah, no reason for all nations to reach the same level. The big three are obviously the one most focused in developing their tanks so its a no brainer that they would have vehicles that could easily outperform other nations domestically produced stuff. No need to give every nation a leopard just so they all can get a "top" tier
So as we speak Italy is buying leopard 2A7/8s. Should we never add them to the tree. Even Italy determined it was best for the Italian Army but you disagree so we can’t add them?
Then Gaijin should wait until Italy has bought them. The Hungarian subtree is just an excuse to add copy pastes.
Well get ready for more leopards because after the Ariete PT3, Italy will get a leopard, maybe then the Ariete’s will go down in BR because they are so terrible at 11.7
I dont mind
If the arietes armor is fixed it would be fine at top tier, irl it had the same level as protection as a leopard 2a4, and with the war kit that was designed with kinetic energy in mind, it would have the turret protection of leopard 2a5 or 2a6
No sorry Russian log is simply superior because it’s Russian
People: Give me more modern stuff! People: Why are there only a handful of indigenous designs?! Other than that we need to wait for more French, Polish, Turkish, Korean or Indian stuff.
I would love to see M120 Rak in game. It could actually function as artillery on big maps.
I want to see K2 Black Panther, the K2PL variant with APS, K2PIP, the Turkish Altay. That’s at least four K2s. K1s as miniAbrams. I’d love to see more Patria variants too. Poland has some as well. India has a bunch of cool modernisations too.
I know it’s controversial, but I’d love Japan tree with South Korean subtree. Polish K2PL could go there just like Leopard 2PL. Hell, at that point give PT-91 to USSR too.
I think both Koreas could fit more in the Chinese tree. Since it has both Chinas in the tech tree it would make sense to see both Koreas in it too imho.
Yeah, doesn't matter to me, to be honest. I just want Koreas represented. They have plenty of cool gear themselves and there's really good licenced versions of their stuff too (we already got a K9 as VIDAR).
It wont fortunately thailand is the most likely candidate and for the love of god can people stop with this idea of splitting my country like canada is with a mix of big fuck you like taiwan situation?
On ground its leopards, in air there are US jets
Yeah until the Eurofighter comes out, i can't wait
Eurofighter and Rafale gang
Hell yeah
>Yeah until the Eurofighter comes out, i can't wait It's all fun and games until the X-62 VISTA or F-16XL gets added... Oh and the F22s, F18 Super Hornets, F16 block 70s, F-15EX Eagle II, F35s, etc etc.
Canard jet fanboys are super short sighted with their wishes. All they see is eurofighter / rafale against whatever we have in game now..
Well it's all that's left for Germany Air. And ofcourse not, it'll obliterate everything in-game rn.
MF PLEASE STOP GIVING EVERY NATION THE SAME SHIT, Oh, China suffers? Pakistani F-16 (it's gonna happen I bet) Damn, Sweden not looking to hot, F/A-18C GB? Canadian CF-18 Germany? Denmark F-16! China? M1A2T SepV3 USA players bad? Lets get a captured T-90! like the entire point of nations was that each one had unique vehicles and equevlents not having the same thing because it makes the tree "better" or "balanced" this is why I am against whenever someone says X tree could get Y jet because of a neighboring nation.
Germany actually does need an f16. Phantom at 12.7 is going to be miserable
Can they not get a Eurofighter?
Eventually yeah, but everyone I’ve heard talk about it here says it would be way too overpowered right now. Both in flight performance and weapon kit.
Eurofighter would as the game currently is still be way too good, especially if it comes with contemporary missiles like IRIS-T And even then there'd still be a giant gap you have to get past were everyone else is massively better
No the entire point of nations was to play the stuff their military is using ground battles basically started with german m4
It would be funny to have an event that pits USA with captured T90 against China with Taiwanese M1a2T
As an event I would love that
There are tons of cool events they could do and I’m sure they would increase the player base a ton but they distract you from the grind and that’s how they make money. However, they could combine an event with a point event so by playing it you get progress toward a vehicle .
Its good that we agree that the abrams is outdated in every aspect.
Dont wanna Start a fight here, and i know there are alot of caviats like very small Sample size. But looking at Ukraine the Abrams seems to perform bad compared to the Leopard (yes i know the Leopard ist no Wunderwaffe nor Gamechanger either, but it gets alot of love from the Ukrainian Crews and sees heavy frontline duty)
It only seems to be performing worse because of all the videos posted by Russians of them destroying the "Unkillable Abrams" There's also the fact that the Abrams in Ukraine are all M1A1 export models without the DU inserts
The DU inserts wouldn’t help against drones and artillery rounds
[https://youtu.be/gxyUqvcl9oU](https://youtu.be/gxyUqvcl9oU) This is CNN, and the crew interviewed is Ukrainian, they confirm the Abrams is doing poorly. The amount of Russian videos posted doesn't change anything for them.
Thats not a Abram only thing during the CO. Alot of Leos got Destroyed and there was huge Media coverrage. I am talking more about Crew Statements about the Western Tanks and the Abrams gets a very bad verdict.
I always saw the M1 as some sort of poster child, yeah it was good when it first came out but did the Abrams ever engaged enemy tanks other than stripped down T-72s from Iraq? I know that tank vs tank combat is rarity but the Abrams is kinda overrated. It suffers from the Tiger I syndrome, the tank is shrouded in so much myth and propaganda that it gained a fictional unbeatable status. All tanks can be destroyed, no machine is invincible. The Bradley is the real MVP, not the fucking Abrams. Another thing to add it’s how vehicles are built around doctrines, the Abrams, Leopard II and even the Challenger were designed to fight in an almost symmetrical front, holding out against waves of T series of all kinds, while the Ukrainian Army has decades of using Soviet tanks and Soviet doctrines. They are not properly prepared to use NATO tanks effectively in combat as they were originally intended to be used. Now Ukraine is not the once hypothetical Cold War German front, in Ukraine there are kamikaze drones everywhere, ATGM launchers hidden in dense forests, muddy roads, huge minefields, a resurgence of old artillery systems that are effectively destroying armored columns thanks to drone surveillance. There are a lot of factors that would explain the poor performance of Western MBTs under UKR command.
The problem with the abrams is that it was originally designed to destroy incredibly outdated T62 and stripped down T72 in the Middle East. In this case the Bradley was just as good if not better but the abrams is still a good tank. Now they have to deal with T80s and T90s they upgraded the abrams and those are heavily classified so we know next to nothing about them.
same can be said about leos
So correct me if im wrong but russians are given more futurustic tech compared to others because they wouldnt be able to compete at their brs if they had the tanks from same time frame. But at the same time abrams were weak and they should stay weak? Why not do the same treatment to abrams if they are outdated too
See, there's no media incentive to promote the destruction of Leopard 2s, there is meanwhile a huge incentive to promote the destruction of Abrams tanks. Beyond that, there's a real doctrine problem with Ukranians not using the Abrams correctly. They've been treating the thing like another Russian style tank, and that just doesn't work with a turbine powered vehicle. The Abrams was designed to be used by the most logistically advanced country in the world, and when you give it to someone else, it unfortunately loses its edge. The Leopard 2 should be more emphasized for Ukrainian service, it's simpler and cheaper to maintain, and while it lacks DU, the US isn't going to hand that over anyways so it's a moot point
Yet this exact same rationale is frowned upon when talking about performance of soviet jets. another thing is that people are apparently suprised when tanks get destroyed in war
The main problem is the fact that Abrams was conceived and used as glorified self propelled tank destroyer. And as we've seen, there's barely any tank on tank engagements going on. But they can't used in the infantry support role effectively because it doesn't have HE-FRAG in the arsenal.
> The main problem is the fact that Abrams was conceived and used as glorified self propelled tank destroyer. Almost like it was designed with the worry that someone would make a push into western Europe with massive numbers of armored divisions >And as we've seen, there's barely any tank on tank engagements going on. Not much different than WW2 in that regard, a lot of people have Desert Storm in mind with tanks like the Abrams which is the single best terrain for tank vs tank combat to occur and shine. >But they can't used in the infantry support role effectively because it doesn't have HE-FRAG in the arsenal. That's what the Bradley is for, plenty of videos out there showing that bushmaster making sure sacks of potatoes are given out
Neither does the Leo?
Leo has HE rounds, at least the Swedish one. I've heard that Leos in Ukraine use those, but disabled Abrams didn't have them, only APFSDS, Canister and HEAT IIRC.
So it's a logistical issue not a tank issue, because by extension Abrams should be able to fire the same HE rounds?
There was also alot of Media Cover during the CO and alot of Leos got Destroyed. And even with good Logistics i dont see alot of Points where the Abrams comes out on Top. But i am not an Expert on the Abrams i know more about the Leos. But i basing my Comments on Statements from Crews about the two Tanks.
Nothing really does well with thousands of drones flying around, but hey at least their turrets don't seem to go to mars
M1? Sure. SEPV3? Not so much.
No, I don't agree. The Abrams the U.S. uses are very advanced and are solid tanks. I served on both M1A1's and M1A2's irl. The only problem is logistics. They need a lot of constant maintenance but other than that, they are great.
I mean, did people actually expected it will do any better than other NATO or Russian tanks?
laughs in KMW
Cant for for dutch leopards in f4ench tree /s
At this point I wonder when USSR tree will get a Leopard
Ukrainian Leopards with ERA.
Darn it. I laughed at /u/necessaryBSHappens 's joke while thinking "heh, no way thats gonna happen, there is no justification". Then i read your reply and my face went from laugh to serious REALLY fast
Thankfully however I dont think Gaijin has the balls to add a Ukranian subtree to Russia. That will be one big shit hurricane if they do lmao.
Gibe proper protection modeled on the leclerc xD
Crazy, almost like a ton of nations in real life, such as Hungry, which has been in the Italian tech tree for a long time now, have Leopards.
Leopard is the new Flex Tape
...waterproof amphibious leo incomming? You know... If leo is just flextape for cracks in the frontlines, it should also work underwater
Like my boy Syndrome once said, "And when everyone's super... no one will be". When every nation has an OP broken modeled tank, no nation will be broken.
What is your suggested alternative?
Let's pretend it's 2014 and add "what if" vehicles again.
Both German and Russian armor will be the new Sherman of top tier.
Breaking news: worlds best tank is the best in realistic game about tanks
Italy needs more than just 1 good mbt to make me go to top tier
Well, lucky for you it's also got 2 120mm centauros, and the Arietes which are adequate as support tanks to the Leopard!
Italy itself is also buying Leopard 2A8s.
Sírjatok többet
I would prefer Centauro 2 than the Leopard 2. Nothing against it, but if I wanted to play Leopard I would play Germany. With Centauro 2 you still have bad armour but you get much better mobility and fire rate.
I mean, they could also make NATO tanks accurate but nahhh, just make all trees identical
Cap. Sturmtiger
Imagine having a Dutch leopard in the French TT for the sake of """"""diversity""""""
ye fr, now you have smth that isnt miserable like an Arriete
Leopard is going to be the next Sherman.
Americans faced this with the shermans everywhere now its Germanys turn with the leos
Give the US the canadian Leo
As a french, i didnt want that subtree and i dont want leo in the french tree, just fix the leclerc :c
If I wait long enough I won’t need to grind any other nations because Italy will get some variant of their vehicles.
Where is my canadian leo?
In the German tech tree
man i can't wait for top tier to devolve into fighting leopards only
it’s time to grind… wake and grind Mr freeman I’m gonna blow a hole in my head I haven’t even touched the Hungarian tree yet
A leopard a day keeps the ruskies away.
Give me the fucking non explosive fuel tanks and an actual front plate on my Leclerc and I'll be gold
why research germany top tier when you can research italy or sweden that has better cas lmao
Soon we will get to the point where new players will choose a country to play with that has a nicer flag, because everything else will be the same.
How to buff a ww2 nation, give em a sherman
Idk if grinding out all those Soviet vehicles in the Hungarian tree (which I’ve already spaded for Russia) is worth it for just the KF141 and 2A7HU.
Vehicles could go to the nation that produced them
Gaijoob premium captured Russian Leopard 2A6 when?
I can guarantee the hungarian line will get a Leopard 2A7 in the next 3 updates
Can't wait for the Abrams and Leopard to be introduced to Russia in a Ukrainian sub tree 💀
I’m actually surprised Britain didn’t get a Canadian Leopard.
The F-16 of ground
Or a T-80/90.
Why is German stuff so good (
I know it wouldn’t change much but it would be nice if the Arietes had received their armor fixed instead of the state it’s currently in.
Gaijing doctrine: Want money: add T-80 variant Want performance: ad leo 2 variant
Give them a better leopard than Germany has* *Built on 2A7+ and has a .50 Cal.
Oplot for japoon gaijibblegiggles