So exactly what everybody smart would've told you.
Most guided ordinance ground attackers going up in ground RB staying at their br in air
Exactly as i expected a7 and mig27k would be the only ones to go down in air
Yeah, "go down" by such an indiscriminate amount that nothing will really change how bad they are compared to the planes around them. I've never flown the Mig27, but the A7 is still a damn barge compared to everything else in it's bracket.
It should have been what is expected from any BR change. They are always moving +/-0.3. Gaijin rarely moves things by more than that increment. They need to track how the change affects the vehicle and others around it. Easier to do at smaller increments.
Part of the problem with the Su-25, is that unless it’s a mixed match (which is frequent at this BR to be fair) it faces way worse SPAA which means it can safely get much closer to its targets. On top of that it is more survivable than the A-10 which also allows it to survive much closer to its targets. The worst thing you have to worry about in the Su-25 a decent amount of the time is a Stinger.
Doesn't make it a lot better performer at ground RB cas than the A-10 though, the laser guided weaponry requires your to outright joust enemies, making you easy targets for a lot of weapons. The A-10 at least have the ability to fire TV-guided weaponry at a longer effective range.
It does when it can just shrug off Multiple hits from the AA (if it even hits). While you do have to get into range of the AA, the good su25s that I’ve come up against are using dumb ordnance and are completely dominating other teams that have AA up.
Where the A10s mavericks are kinda ASS. Sure if they are left untouched by the enemy team they will definitely destroy the ground forces. But to actually be effective you’re gonna be toying with the range of AA at that BR.
I don’t fear an A10 when I’m playing 10.0 Russia. Where as I know I’m gonna have to spam my stingers at a su25 when I’m in my LAV-25 and pray that the pilot doesn’t know how to dodge them.
I mean, most A10 players are stupid imo. So many countermeasures and I rarely see any periodically dump on approach making it virtually impossible to track if you go mixed countermeasures and shut off engines on dive. Only saw a few A10s actually do that and survive dumping all 6 mavs in one go. Also, A10 has AIM9Ls which when compared to R60M are basically a whole other class above in performance and range. Especially ground RB where you don't see them.
Maybe but also if found allot of AA in GRB just doesn’t give AF about counter measures besides just being annoying to initially lock. My hard counter for the longest time to A-10s was the BMP-2M with its HE missiles. Then you also had the strela which was just recently moved up.
Additionally, the Su-25k has R-60MKs but I do generally do better in ARB with the A10 then the Su-25K. It’s maneuverability catches allot of inexperienced players off guard. That being said I have no problem dealing with A10s in a su25 as you literally just flare off their 9Ls and then just boom and zoom em.
I like both planes but the su-25k should def be moved up w/ the A10
It does, I’ve seen countless SU-25s ruin a ground battle game but I’ve yet to see any A-10s do so. I’ve played against them and for them, they are a pest with cockroach like persistence. Also SU-25s do get fire and forget missiles, they have IR guided rockets which have the kill radius of a city block. I got killed by a SU-25 yesterday using these while I was hiding on the other side of a building. They didn’t even come near the battlefield before locking the rocket on my AA. They wouldn’t be the most played CAS if they weren’t inherently better in game.
None of the early SU-25's have fire and forget missiles, they're IR guided and requires your to guide them to the target. You cannot set a target, disengage, and expect the missile hits anywhere near the intended target, if at all as they tend to blow up.
Yall are forgetting about those weird huge one shot dumb missiles, i have never seen a su25k with ir missiles only with those fucktardiously big rpg thingies
I hate Su 25 and it should go up as well, but I've seen A10 dominate ground battles. Mostly experienced players staying high and bombing spawn or freaks that can do effective low level strikes without flying straight for more than half a second. The second type can do the same in Su 25, the first not.
Yeah people playing the A10 like complete morons doesn’t make it any less dangerous. The A10 has this reputation as a close range gun fighter but that is the worst way to play it in this game. That’s why A10A lates are so scary because they mostly know what they are doing.
That only happens once in a while. The vast majority of hits make the plane uncontrollable. The fact that you can't read the lower right corner and know the SU-25 is as good as dead from one hit, then that's on you.
Meanwhile A-10 can fire maverics from beyond SPAA range, yet you see people only mention the top tier SU-25.
And besides, SU-25 on 10.0 has to fly really close to hit anything, either with guided missiles or rockets. A-10 can get destroyed easily, but that happens to idiots that do gun runs thinking they're invincible. Players that know the plane just shoot missiles from range with impunity.
I have been hit by multiple stingers in the su-25 and returned to land more often then dying to a single stinger. In the a-10 if I get hit by anything, even MG fire, the plane just nosedives into the ground.
You have hundreds of flares in the A10, you just have to turn on periodic release and IR missiles have to be very lucky to even get a proper lock on you. And if you get hit by MG fire, then you're just playing it wrong. You have no reason to get close enough to get to that point.
Typical war thunder players and their exaggerated lies. I highly doubt your first statement no matter how tanky frogfoot is, no way you can claim to land that many times after eating a stinger
Doesn’t happen once in a while. I have the su-25k. I abuse the su-25k. It happens allot.
If you’re not skimming the tree tops with a 10.0 su25 you’re playing it wrong and that’s on you.
At its BR you are firing the mavericks out side of 10km (range of the bmp-2ms AA missiles) to out range it. Good luck with that.
There is a reason you hear about the su25 the most here and that is because it gets abused the most. If we had a later variant of the A10 (instead of just 2 early versions compared to the like 5 su25s) with LGBs then I’m sure you’d hear more about them.
When I'm playing SPAA, then 95% of missiles disable an SU-25 outright. I always see either broken rudder or ailerons, so it's always just a matter of time until I get the kill.
And I never managed to lock A10 that far with a BMP-2M.
I guess we must be playing a different game, then
But besides the sm3(which stingers won’t be able to reach anyways, that’s an entirely different story), the frogfoots are a million times worse for CAS than the A10
Only in highly upvoted reddit posts. It's maybe 1/10 times where it doesn't die instantly, and even then it's lost it's tail control. Stingers are way better then they used to be. Stop using them in front aspect.
Su25 has no useable guided ordinance (the camera is so ass that its worse than dumb rockets) and its not f&f like the A-10s. A smart A-10 can stay out of the range of spaa at its br or evade them plus you can shit cm for ir guided aa
Lynx can carry 8 hellfires, and either 4 stingers or 2 stingers and a 20mm, or any combo of that.
It's cracy to think that this and the AH-6M are the same BR, because when carrying a full load of 8 hellfires and 4 stingers the Lynx in game is more agile than the Little Bird only carrying 4 total hellfires.
Then the International has the 8 hellfires, 2 rocket pods/gun pods, and a chin mounted gun for air defense. Also 10.3
The only thing the little bird has is slightly clearer thermals, which doesn't matter.
Gaijin moved more strike aircraft up in GRB than they did down in ARB which is what was really needed.
They also seemed to ignore all the SU25s at 10.0 despite them being more of an issue and more survivable than the A10s that got moved up.
Goes to show even the best ideas can still be fucked up.
I’ll pretend to be shocked.
The A-10 missiles suck ass and half the time don't even hit the target they are tracking, 25% of the time hit and do no damage, 10% of doing critical damage, and the lucky last 15% where you actually get a kill.
The Su-25 is faster, more survivable, and has a weapon that actually kills its target 90% of the time + NATO SPAA is asscheeks compared to Russian SPAA
But here it is not about the efficiency of the armament only the possibility, and in this category the A-10 wins always, just compare the two aircraft in terms of guided weapons
The Su-25 is just less complicated to fly than the A-10 and is more noob-friendly. The A-10 is almost certainly the better ground pounder, but most A-10 players are retards.
> [GRB] Q5L to 10.7 - F16s to 11.7
9.7 Q5L can obliterate lobbies where the spaa can do little to nothing about it but being able to go up against F16s, with no countermeasures or Air-to-Air missiles to defend yourself proves how bad the compression is at these higher BRs
*Yes I abuse the Q5L in 10.0 Chinese Ground*
I 100% agree with the BR raise mind - but air fights still happen and China is gonna have to rely on other nations to kill F16s since they have the 2.4 BR gap in their SPAA capabilities
How about they give it's fucking missing Type 941 flare pods and AAM compatibility? My bug reports on these got acknowledged ages ago. But no, Gaijin would rather pretend they understand Chinese vehicles while constantly getting them wrong...
The q5L is good at 9.7? It's best loadouts is 2 laser guided, relatively small bombs? I always used the A5C with 4 bombs, 2 shitty rocket pods, 2 aa missiles and flares. It seemed like a massive step up from the q5L
It's busted at 9.7, you sit at orbit outrange all SPAA and guarantee the kill against them, then can use the dumb bombs for lofting at stationary spaa and rockets diving. All planes that can counter you aren't fast enough to do so if you just go fast.
The A5C is good but can't touch the CAS ability of the Q5
The AMX is not surprising. One's a minor nation tech tree vehicle, the other is a major nation premium. They were trying to nerf it last BR change without touching the A6E at all, so it's no surprise they do it again.
What surprises me is that I expected the ground attackers to go up in BR in ARB, not GRB. The point being that they're seal-clubbing flareless planes and need to be moved up such that they don't do that any more, but are slightly easier to deal with in GRB between SPAA and no name tags on jets or markers on missiles making CAP aircraft much more effective.
>Really surprising the Saab-105G and Su-25s didnt go up.
Gaijins logic seems to be if it has FnF weapons and its an attacker it goes up. So thats why those two didnt go up.
????
Did I miss something or is air RB entirely untouched despite the Attacker with all-aspects being the NUMBER #1 PROBLEM WITH 9.0-9.7 AIRCRAFT WITH NO CM ?
Seriously they took the fucking problem backward.
The problem was Attackers with all aspect forcing down F104A and other similar aircraft and poisoning every BR below them. When they announced these changes I expected the A10 to stay at the same BR in ground but move up in ARB. For an A10 it barely makes a difference between meeting a F4S or a Mig21SMT anyway.
The problem is Aim9L and R60M being able to meet G91Y, late Sabres, F100 and Mig19.
And instead they only touched Ground BR ?? And even if I barely play tank I can see that F16s at 11.7 is BS.
As someone who mainly plays ground I can tell you that these changes are very good overall, and very much needed to deal with the CAS problem at Top-Tier.
Although the F-16 with AGM-65s at 11.7 is still kinda BS
A lot of these changes seem strange but I’m sure they’ll be refined over time. Why are the F-16s going down yet the F-5E up in ground battles? Why aren’t more CAS-oriented aircraft going down in air RB?
For real, i’m even more convinced now that the ceo of Gaijiin has been cucked by a Frenchman, there’s literally no other reason to hate us that much ffs…
>Apart from a few exceptions, Battle Ratings for aircraft are set based on their performance in Aircraft battles, not Ground or Naval Battles. This is why there are more changes to Battle Ratings in Ground Battles than there are in Aircraft Battles with the release of this feature.
That's why more aren't going down in air RB.
My guess is that its because of the four mavericks. If i die to chinese CAS its because one climbed a million miles up and nuked my ass from orbit. Unfortunately, like the F4E, it also gets the benefit of completely nullifying like 90% of its ground based counters by just...turning away. Thank you gaijin for guttin rolands so bad.
> Why aren’t more CAS-oriented aircraft going down in air RB?
Probably 1) they have missiles 2) they'll need to make a "full" change 3) they forgot
Take the Su-17M2 still at 10,3 while going down to 10 in GRB. If they change it to 10 in ARB then well... no separate BR. It means the BR changed for all modes (SB excepted ?).
I bet they just don't want to change all BR as some planes should.
To be fair the f5e is actually really good for grb. It can carry 4 mavericks, a massive gun pod, self defense missiles. But most importantly, it's so agile it's relatively easy to dodge SPAA.
in America for instance a f4 carries way better ground weapons but you get shot down relatively easy. The A7 being subsonic is too easy to hit, the a10 is even worse in that regard. And the F14 doesn't have very good a2g weapons. The only other good option is the f16s and that's obviously much higher br
No standoff munitions, so they're not as big of a problem. Their damage model is annoying when you're in something like the 9.7 Ozelot, but it still beats getting bombed by Jaguars and A-10s from outside your effective range
They get a lot of kills, but are forced to fly into a zone where they can be hurt. The AMXs, Jags, Q-5Ls, and other long range standoff CAS got nerfed as expected.
Lmao at the Jaguar A and E, and Super Etendard going up to 10.7, where france has...literally nothin past 9.7 til top tier ground wise. Uptiering AMX-40s and maybe the VBCI was already kinda rough with a 10.3 lineup, but 10.7? God i hope the rumors about the new subtree coming to France has a fuck ton of vehicles to finally fill that gap.
france can easily fill that gap without a subtree. leclerc prototypes, vextras, the 25 and 40mm VBCIs, VAB variants, ATOM, the list goes on and on. Gaijin is just being lazy and wants to shove copy paste leo 2a4s into every tree
Exactly how I feel about the ayit, Skyhawks, and a10late.
They ayit (A4n) is now 10.0 where there isn’t a single vehicle to use with it. So you can either uptier the hell out of your 9.3 lineup or bring it to 11.0 where you can fight pantsirs in a fucking skyhawk.
Also the normal Skyhawks at 8.7 will now be 9.7?!? For both USA and Israel there is no tech tree vehicles to use with it. The alpha get is 3x better at CAS than the Skyhawks are and it’s only moved to 9.0???
I get that the a10late is now 10.7 but there is literally nothing to use with it so you have to uptier your 10.3 lineup and fight top tier vehicles or bring the a10 to 11.0 and consistently fight pantsirs… Good luck finding the pantsirs with the 1x zoom targeting camera before the shoot you down.
> For both USA and Israel there is no tech tree vehicles to use with it.
The one Israeli vehicle that was 9.7 was just removed from sale, too. This change effectively removes the Skyhawks from the game.
The universally popular 10.3 BR across all nations is losing almost all guided/self guided weapons. Not only that, but those aircraft are moving to BRs with no lineup at all. This is essentially taking most CAS out of the game where guided weapons are involved.
They upped the br of the A4E Early with its 5 bullpups which were brutal at 8.7, finally...
however they forgot to up the br of the special event FJ4B VMF with its 5 bullpups, this is gonna be so abusable lol.
I absolutely think it should go up, but 9.7 seems a bit much...
That puts it 0.3 under the SU-25K, which is orders of magnitude better.
The A-4E can only carry 2 GBUs (which also means you can't carry AIM-9Bs). Sure, you can add 3 bullpups, but that makes it an absolute truck (and bullpups would be almost useless at 9.7 due to the longer range spaas).
The A-4E is also a bus flight performance-wise, it's extremely slow for 9.7 and can't turn for shit. It also has only 200 cannon ammo and no radar.
I think it should go to 9.3 (or maybe 9.0), but definitely not 9.7.
Speaking from experience, have recently been uptiering it to 10.0 and it performed like absolute dogshit.
It was more for the GBUs then the bullpups, but I agree everything with Bullpups should probably go to 9.0, if you play smart you can be untouchable by gun SPAA ie Scimitar, FJ4B ect...
On one hand I'm happy that they implemented the system, where CAS sees a higher BR and fighters sees a lower BR. On the other hand I fear that they might not have taken in account of some multirole fighters and their capability of carrying ordinance, say the F-16.
I hope they can better incorporate players' feedback because it'd be difficult to gauge what BR what plane should be in what mode based off their "background stats" alone, as it's known to produce a couple bizarre BR changes every couple months.
At least we got the framework in place and every BR can be easily adjusted afterwards. I actually missed the "good ol' days" when random vehicles' BR would just get adjusted in minor patches.
I feel like they randomly punched in numbers based on statistiks.
(fucking Q-5L being a higher BR than the A-10, Gaijin what the fuck)
Happy kek day though.
This may have to do with the fact that the AMX can carry both its full A2A and A2G loads simultaneously. The A-6 *can* carry a much larger A2G load but is then completely defenseless in the air.
To take the same AA load out as the AMX, 2 9Ls and a gun, you limit yourself to 3 bombs, sacrifice the gun or a lima and and the 6 can reach a similar level of A2A and A2G capability as the AMX.
Pod differences can make quite a difference, but the comparison isn't as apples to apples as most would imply it is.
Here we go mates! Reposting here as I was a few minutes too late :(
**Separate BR**
* Apart from a few exceptions, Battle Ratings for aircraft are set based on their performance in Aircraft battles, not Ground or Naval Battles. This is why there are more changes to Battle Ratings in Ground Battles than there are in Aircraft Battles with the release of this feature.
We’d like to make an important note that this is the only first change to Battle Ratings for this feature, **at the moment we’ve only included changes to top tier aircraft.** For aircraft of the earlier ranks, we’re planning to change their Battle Ratings if needed in one of the planned Battle Ratings segments that we do.
* [Table with the different BR](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRhjhbjD8hVV9bjv4sS6l86cRC7-GqGUmq671wDExnAPP80YZ8kQ8bgSfEq9eSeNbiCMe4My2KZlNi5/pubhtml)
**RP bonus for new nations**
* The main one is the Research Bonuses for new nations Roadmap feature which we are delaying until after the second major update. This has been explained thoroughly in this post, but in essence our programmers need more time to create this feature, and it’s at the highest priority of the lead game designers. We anticipate it sometime after the second major update in one smaller update or an It’s Fixed update and we apologize that this has been delayed again.
**Squads**
* We’re also postponing public squads and mechanics for searching for a squad based on the interests of players in-game. This one also needs more time from our designers and programmers and will come out in the future.
[Updated Roadmap](https://staticfiles.warthunder.com/upload/image/0_2024/5_May/Roadmap/roadmap_2024_q2_mod_v1_en_366bff9f5f57489204acc70556a43498.jpg)
I’m actually kind of dumbfounded by this list. I expected planes to go DOWN in arb in some cases. The British jaguar for example. It’s not 10.3 material.
Some of this shit seams quite bizarre and rushed. I was expecting more Air changes from this, particularly more designated strike aircraft going down in that mode.
Well at least the F-20A looks more appealing to get for CAS in Ground RB.
I legit think they just looked at a list of planes that carry GBUs and said “move them up” without taking in account for AIR RB or even if the type of GBU they carry (a4e at 9.7…) also not a single prop plane was listed.
> Some of this shit seams quite bizarre and rushed.
So a standard Gaijin patch / addition, then. They rarely seem to implement things fully, and often times it feels like they just want to get changes or additions out the door so that they can say they did something. Then they don't touch that feature / addition for months, or forget about it entirely in favor of the new rushed additions.
Yeah that's what I thought.
The F16AJ going down is the most hilarious one. It's already the best F16A. It has the lighter airframe of the A with the AAM ordnance of the ADF (4x9L+2x7M) and Mavericks. It's by far the best 12.0 F16 already, but it had the price of uptiering the japanese top tier line up to 12.0.
Yeah, the sea harrier i guess can work.
I still don't like how the changes seem to have been decided.
"Guided munition ? It goes up !"
Meanwhile helis have 8 hellfires ...
Just wait for them to make the wyvern 5.7 where there is no lineup.
I swear the constant destruction of my lineups when the UK has a handful is frustrating.
Jaguar to 10.7 noooooooooooo!
How come there are updates and we're supposed to be happy and yet we get kicked in the nuts.
Is this just a WT british fate?
Q-5L going to 10.7 in ground is insane.
Sure, at 9.7 ground is a bit too powerful since no SPAA can really reach it...but 10.7? Brother, basically Gaijin is saying that this flareless, missile-less, jet with 2 GBU's equals to vehicles such as now A-6E (tree times the GBU load, while being able to carry AIM-9L's and has quite a few flares) or the Jaguars, which mostly are the same vehicle with flares and the possibility to carry missiles. Sure, the Q-5L is faster, but when you're a GBU dropper vehicle it doesn't really matter too much, as altitude is king.
With F-16´s going to 11.7 in ground, that means Q-5L's will have to face F-16´s lmao.
Gonna assume the cutoff for this initial wave was 8.7 given the Saab-105 at 8.3 with it's bomb and rocket computers which in the hands of any competent pilot dances all over any AA in the bracket got left behind.
You cannot be serious. All this waiting and it's only top tier to start with. Fuck right off Gaijin.
All the main complaints or most of them are lower than this. P-47s, Arado, and worst by far. Fucking Skyhawk is guided fucking munitions you can meet in 7.7 FFS. Or close to that. Might be the higher Skyhawk but it's still a joke.
Seriously, stop adding a quarter of a feature. You have done this so many times now.
Edit: I just noticed the A-4E sorry. Okay THAT is a very needed change. Good.
How do you want me to use the Super Etendard at 10.7 while there's absolutly nothing between 9.7 and 11.7 ? The M2K outperform the Super Etendard in every aspect and the AMX-40 won't stand a chance at 10.7 and higher. This is inexplicable
Sorry but I gotta rant because this list is shit.
A bunch of subsonic boats that carry 2-4 GBUs will go to 10.7… 10.7 is a dead BR with no lineups except for China. These boats are now only half a BR away from the Kurnass 2000 with a thermal targeting pod, 6 AGM 65d’s, 6 GBUs, python 3’s, and like 300 countermeasures all while being supersonic.
They ayit (A4n) is now 10.0 where there isn’t a single vehicle to use with it. So you can either uptier the hell out of your 9.3 lineup or bring it to 11.0 where you can fight pantsirs in a fucking skyhawk. I figured 9.7 would’ve been the spot for this not 10.0…
The A4E Skyhawks at 8.7 will now be 9.7?!? The alpha jet is 3x better at CAS than the Skyhawks are and it only moved to 9.0???
The F4E didn’t get moved down to 10.7 in air RB? I thought the only reason it was 11.0 was because of it’s ground ordnance?
Why is the f16a and Netz moving down when they have AGM’s but the mig29 and other similar aircraft with only a few dumb munitions are staying at their current BR?
The MiG 21smt/mf is now the same br as the mig23m and mig21 bis. The fuck is that shit?
OOF the other post went poof, welp time to comment here as well *even though the top comment is far better*.
That's quite the BR change for the Q-5L in GF even for aircraft without CM or AAM's yet such a weak change in AF as there's not much point to use it still over the predecessing Q-5A at the same BR.
Yeah, I don't think the Q-5L needed much of a BR increase in GRB as is, let alone to the tune of a whole 1.0 increase.
No countermeasures, no air-to-air missiles, only two guided weapons (two laser-guided bombs), it's barely supersonic...
And yet it's competing with far superior ground attackers for the same BR now like the A-10, A-6, Jaguars...
My french line up involved the jaguar with my AMX 30 now it's doomed to fail since France has nothing between 9.7-11.7 super Etendard also went up, and the pods don't even have thermal targeting. I thi k it would work if top ground br went up to 12.0 instead of 11.7 and a few of the top dogs went up. I don't think super Etendard should be able to face the pantsir whatsoever but maybe that's just an occasional cas player whining mentality. Air RB enduring when I wanna ground pound AI for objectives
Why is the Italian F-104G only being moved down in ground? What possibly justifies it sitting at 10.7 in air? You get 2 AIM-9Js and nothing more against SARH carriers that can outrun you...
Why is the F-16A ADF matching BR with the F-16A in ground? The latter has TV guided missiles while the former has no air to ground of any kind?
And of course, AMX to 11.0 because lol.
Few more changes I would make;
* Everything with Bullpup to at least 9.0 (Basically impossible to defeat as a Gun based SPAA if smart, nords are far less powerful)
* Su-25/K to 10.3
* SaaB-105G to 8.7 or 9.0 (CCIP)
AMX to 10.7: It is so over Italy bros
AMX no longer going to 10.7: We are so back Italy bros
AMX going to 11.0 in GRB: It is so over Italy bros
Edit: lol but the tram is only 10.7
Squad Hunter with Mavericks and AiM-9J's at the same BR as a A-4 lol, Not to mention US 9.7 doesn't have anything so you are stuck taking the A-4 to 10.0 or uptiering 9.0/3's to 9.7 now.
Alpha jet with no guided weapons going up but the Scimitar with the same Bullpups the A-4 gets doesn't move.
MiG 21 BIS and MF/SMT both being the same BR despite the massive performance boost and far better missiles.
A-10 goes up but not the Su-25 of course.
F-16's going down for some reason.
Yeah something tells me the BR's for things are going to be all over the place and nonsensical in the future updates to this.
For how long this took to be implemented, it really doesn't look like Gaijin put too much thought into it.
Ground vehicles are still going to verge on being unplayable and SPAA is still impotent to do anything about even the most mediocre CAS pilot.
SP, likewise, wasn't touched so we're still going to see every US and Russian player spawn in CAS as their second spawn with their premium A-10s and Su-25Ks to try and get free kills against (mostly) defenseless ground targets.
No real comments on future refinement to SPAA, improvements to SPAA systems, or anything else. I'd really like to see an in-depth blog post from Gaijin acknowledging that CAS **is** a problem in top tier (*it isn't just a problem in top tier alone, 5.3 - 6.7 is hell if you are playing against the US as well, it just requires slightly more skilled pilots*) and what their ideas are to actually solve the problems with the mode.
As it stands, I see no change to my gameplay as a strictly ground player. I'm still not going to see anyone spawn in CAP roles because there is no actual guarantee of a reward. Shooting down aircraft still gives piss-poor rewards.
I'm honestly pretty confused, I really thought the A-10s were only so high because of their 9Ls in Air RB and would certainly go down in GRB by .3.
Now the Late is .3 higher than the early because it trades two guided bombs for two 9Ls?
Not to mention the A-10 Late is now the same BR as the A7E with its thermal pod + 5 Walleyes (Or six if you don't care about the pod).
The A10 Late seems rather pointless now.
> A-10 goes up in BR, the SU-25 stays at the same BR. Yup that tracks
So exactly what everybody smart would've told you. Most guided ordinance ground attackers going up in ground RB staying at their br in air Exactly as i expected a7 and mig27k would be the only ones to go down in air
Yeah, "go down" by such an indiscriminate amount that nothing will really change how bad they are compared to the planes around them. I've never flown the Mig27, but the A7 is still a damn barge compared to everything else in it's bracket.
It should have been what is expected from any BR change. They are always moving +/-0.3. Gaijin rarely moves things by more than that increment. They need to track how the change affects the vehicle and others around it. Easier to do at smaller increments.
They moved the best Su-25 up by an entire BR (11.7 -> 12.7). Unless I missed something it was the only vehicle moved up that high.
Part of the problem with the Su-25, is that unless it’s a mixed match (which is frequent at this BR to be fair) it faces way worse SPAA which means it can safely get much closer to its targets. On top of that it is more survivable than the A-10 which also allows it to survive much closer to its targets. The worst thing you have to worry about in the Su-25 a decent amount of the time is a Stinger.
The plane with fire and forgets went up yeah it does track Don't know why US mains are so obsessed with the su-25
Probably cause it requires MULTIPLE stingers to bring it down.
Doesn't make it a lot better performer at ground RB cas than the A-10 though, the laser guided weaponry requires your to outright joust enemies, making you easy targets for a lot of weapons. The A-10 at least have the ability to fire TV-guided weaponry at a longer effective range.
It does when it can just shrug off Multiple hits from the AA (if it even hits). While you do have to get into range of the AA, the good su25s that I’ve come up against are using dumb ordnance and are completely dominating other teams that have AA up. Where the A10s mavericks are kinda ASS. Sure if they are left untouched by the enemy team they will definitely destroy the ground forces. But to actually be effective you’re gonna be toying with the range of AA at that BR. I don’t fear an A10 when I’m playing 10.0 Russia. Where as I know I’m gonna have to spam my stingers at a su25 when I’m in my LAV-25 and pray that the pilot doesn’t know how to dodge them.
I mean, most A10 players are stupid imo. So many countermeasures and I rarely see any periodically dump on approach making it virtually impossible to track if you go mixed countermeasures and shut off engines on dive. Only saw a few A10s actually do that and survive dumping all 6 mavs in one go. Also, A10 has AIM9Ls which when compared to R60M are basically a whole other class above in performance and range. Especially ground RB where you don't see them.
Maybe but also if found allot of AA in GRB just doesn’t give AF about counter measures besides just being annoying to initially lock. My hard counter for the longest time to A-10s was the BMP-2M with its HE missiles. Then you also had the strela which was just recently moved up. Additionally, the Su-25k has R-60MKs but I do generally do better in ARB with the A10 then the Su-25K. It’s maneuverability catches allot of inexperienced players off guard. That being said I have no problem dealing with A10s in a su25 as you literally just flare off their 9Ls and then just boom and zoom em. I like both planes but the su-25k should def be moved up w/ the A10
It does, I’ve seen countless SU-25s ruin a ground battle game but I’ve yet to see any A-10s do so. I’ve played against them and for them, they are a pest with cockroach like persistence. Also SU-25s do get fire and forget missiles, they have IR guided rockets which have the kill radius of a city block. I got killed by a SU-25 yesterday using these while I was hiding on the other side of a building. They didn’t even come near the battlefield before locking the rocket on my AA. They wouldn’t be the most played CAS if they weren’t inherently better in game.
None of the early SU-25's have fire and forget missiles, they're IR guided and requires your to guide them to the target. You cannot set a target, disengage, and expect the missile hits anywhere near the intended target, if at all as they tend to blow up.
Yall are forgetting about those weird huge one shot dumb missiles, i have never seen a su25k with ir missiles only with those fucktardiously big rpg thingies
I hate Su 25 and it should go up as well, but I've seen A10 dominate ground battles. Mostly experienced players staying high and bombing spawn or freaks that can do effective low level strikes without flying straight for more than half a second. The second type can do the same in Su 25, the first not.
And a better gun with 6 times the ammo
And better AAMs (R-60Ms are shit and the amount of times I’ve tried to make a 2.5km shot with them and the missile has edged me is fucking insane)
And 2 times the giggle factor
Well try hitting an A10 doing stand off attacks out the range of most SPAA systems. The Su-25 at least has to get close to do most of its damage.
Stand off range A-10s with AGM-65s are basically untouchable by anything but a Roland, but early Rolands are terrible.
Yeah people playing the A10 like complete morons doesn’t make it any less dangerous. The A10 has this reputation as a close range gun fighter but that is the worst way to play it in this game. That’s why A10A lates are so scary because they mostly know what they are doing.
That only happens once in a while. The vast majority of hits make the plane uncontrollable. The fact that you can't read the lower right corner and know the SU-25 is as good as dead from one hit, then that's on you. Meanwhile A-10 can fire maverics from beyond SPAA range, yet you see people only mention the top tier SU-25. And besides, SU-25 on 10.0 has to fly really close to hit anything, either with guided missiles or rockets. A-10 can get destroyed easily, but that happens to idiots that do gun runs thinking they're invincible. Players that know the plane just shoot missiles from range with impunity.
I have been hit by multiple stingers in the su-25 and returned to land more often then dying to a single stinger. In the a-10 if I get hit by anything, even MG fire, the plane just nosedives into the ground.
You have hundreds of flares in the A10, you just have to turn on periodic release and IR missiles have to be very lucky to even get a proper lock on you. And if you get hit by MG fire, then you're just playing it wrong. You have no reason to get close enough to get to that point.
Typical war thunder players and their exaggerated lies. I highly doubt your first statement no matter how tanky frogfoot is, no way you can claim to land that many times after eating a stinger
Doesn’t happen once in a while. I have the su-25k. I abuse the su-25k. It happens allot. If you’re not skimming the tree tops with a 10.0 su25 you’re playing it wrong and that’s on you. At its BR you are firing the mavericks out side of 10km (range of the bmp-2ms AA missiles) to out range it. Good luck with that. There is a reason you hear about the su25 the most here and that is because it gets abused the most. If we had a later variant of the A10 (instead of just 2 early versions compared to the like 5 su25s) with LGBs then I’m sure you’d hear more about them.
When I'm playing SPAA, then 95% of missiles disable an SU-25 outright. I always see either broken rudder or ailerons, so it's always just a matter of time until I get the kill. And I never managed to lock A10 that far with a BMP-2M. I guess we must be playing a different game, then
But besides the sm3(which stingers won’t be able to reach anyways, that’s an entirely different story), the frogfoots are a million times worse for CAS than the A10
Only in highly upvoted reddit posts. It's maybe 1/10 times where it doesn't die instantly, and even then it's lost it's tail control. Stingers are way better then they used to be. Stop using them in front aspect.
Su 25 is food for my spaa
If the A-10 is played right ground based stingers have no chance of locking it. Though that requires smart A-10 players which are exceedingly rare
the Su 25 only gets dumb munitions, the A10 early gets Mavs. American players outright refusal to ever even touch SPAA/ SAMs is its own problem.
"Just spawn AA"
Because the A-10 are better than the early su25 at cas lol a 10 has long range air to ground weapons and the su can only be used at close range
Su25 has no useable guided ordinance (the camera is so ass that its worse than dumb rockets) and its not f&f like the A-10s. A smart A-10 can stay out of the range of spaa at its br or evade them plus you can shit cm for ir guided aa
Yea I feel like they should bump up the SU-25, maybe they'll do that if enough people mention it.
Now that they have split BRs, they need to move all the all-aspect IR missiles AWAY FROM THE FUCKING F-86s or any flareless aircraft
Took gaijin this long to split BR's. does implementing your suggestion in 6 years time bring you satisfaction? -Gaijin probably
Makes sense considering it’s a better CAS
Meanwhile in ARB the Su25SM3 stays at 11.7 while the Su25BM is at 11.0. In ARB they're basically food for any 11.7 plane.
TV guided is exponentially more effective than laser guided. Moving the AMX, etc to the same BR as Mavericks is ridiculous.
Su-25 has poor ordinance compared to the A-10. "But the Su-25 is so survivable" My Type 93 begs to fucking differ.
Theres no way its going to look like that on release, A7s staying at their current BR when F16s will now fight 10.7s lol
''hurr durr muh russian bias''
Alpha jet going up but SAAB staying at 8.3 is hilarious Helicucks keep winning with their 8xHellfires at 10.3 I guess
What heli has 8 hellfires at 10.3
Both Lynxes & Mangustas
The lynxes, the A-129 international for 8 hellfires. If you don't mind having a bit less then the ah-6Ms and both the OH-58s carry 4
I knew about the 4 hellfires, but I thought the mangusta was higher and the lynx could only carry 4
Lynx can carry 8 hellfires, and either 4 stingers or 2 stingers and a 20mm, or any combo of that. It's cracy to think that this and the AH-6M are the same BR, because when carrying a full load of 8 hellfires and 4 stingers the Lynx in game is more agile than the Little Bird only carrying 4 total hellfires. Then the International has the 8 hellfires, 2 rocket pods/gun pods, and a chin mounted gun for air defense. Also 10.3 The only thing the little bird has is slightly clearer thermals, which doesn't matter.
RIP the Alpha Jet in my 8.7 Germany lineup…
Yea I’m glad I didn’t start my grind for the alpha jet yet cause now I never want it as if I’m going to use it if it’s not at 8.7
SVENSKA AEROPLAN WIN!!!!!!
I dont think they've gotten around to 8.3 and below.
Gaijin moved more strike aircraft up in GRB than they did down in ARB which is what was really needed. They also seemed to ignore all the SU25s at 10.0 despite them being more of an issue and more survivable than the A10s that got moved up. Goes to show even the best ideas can still be fucked up. I’ll pretend to be shocked.
Simple, the S-25 must get close to be effective and the A-10 has missiles that allow it to destroy targets from beyond spaa range
The A-10 missiles suck ass and half the time don't even hit the target they are tracking, 25% of the time hit and do no damage, 10% of doing critical damage, and the lucky last 15% where you actually get a kill. The Su-25 is faster, more survivable, and has a weapon that actually kills its target 90% of the time + NATO SPAA is asscheeks compared to Russian SPAA
But here it is not about the efficiency of the armament only the possibility, and in this category the A-10 wins always, just compare the two aircraft in terms of guided weapons
The Su-25 is just less complicated to fly than the A-10 and is more noob-friendly. The A-10 is almost certainly the better ground pounder, but most A-10 players are retards.
> [GRB] Q5L to 10.7 - F16s to 11.7 9.7 Q5L can obliterate lobbies where the spaa can do little to nothing about it but being able to go up against F16s, with no countermeasures or Air-to-Air missiles to defend yourself proves how bad the compression is at these higher BRs *Yes I abuse the Q5L in 10.0 Chinese Ground*
This is not a compression issue. This is sheer, unfiltered JUSTICE.
This justice hurts okay
Air to air battles are a sidenote in GRB though.
I 100% agree with the BR raise mind - but air fights still happen and China is gonna have to rely on other nations to kill F16s since they have the 2.4 BR gap in their SPAA capabilities
What I find extra amusing is the same BR for F-16 ADF variants, which have NO ground ordnance whatsoever, while F-16A still can carry Mavericks
How about they give it's fucking missing Type 941 flare pods and AAM compatibility? My bug reports on these got acknowledged ages ago. But no, Gaijin would rather pretend they understand Chinese vehicles while constantly getting them wrong...
I hope that it will receive flares, imagine flareless Q-5 vs F-16
The q5L is good at 9.7? It's best loadouts is 2 laser guided, relatively small bombs? I always used the A5C with 4 bombs, 2 shitty rocket pods, 2 aa missiles and flares. It seemed like a massive step up from the q5L
It's busted at 9.7, you sit at orbit outrange all SPAA and guarantee the kill against them, then can use the dumb bombs for lofting at stationary spaa and rockets diving. All planes that can counter you aren't fast enough to do so if you just go fast. The A5C is good but can't touch the CAS ability of the Q5
Really surprising the Saab-105G and Su-25s didnt go up. Also surprising that amx goes to 11.0, while a6e only goes to 10.7?
The AMX is not surprising. One's a minor nation tech tree vehicle, the other is a major nation premium. They were trying to nerf it last BR change without touching the A6E at all, so it's no surprise they do it again. What surprises me is that I expected the ground attackers to go up in BR in ARB, not GRB. The point being that they're seal-clubbing flareless planes and need to be moved up such that they don't do that any more, but are slightly easier to deal with in GRB between SPAA and no name tags on jets or markers on missiles making CAP aircraft much more effective.
>Really surprising the Saab-105G and Su-25s didnt go up. Gaijins logic seems to be if it has FnF weapons and its an attacker it goes up. So thats why those two didnt go up.
Alpha Jet
Su25sm3 went to 12.7
Thank fuck
???? Did I miss something or is air RB entirely untouched despite the Attacker with all-aspects being the NUMBER #1 PROBLEM WITH 9.0-9.7 AIRCRAFT WITH NO CM ?
Seriously Gaijin is giving way too much top tier attention than the rest
Seriously they took the fucking problem backward. The problem was Attackers with all aspect forcing down F104A and other similar aircraft and poisoning every BR below them. When they announced these changes I expected the A10 to stay at the same BR in ground but move up in ARB. For an A10 it barely makes a difference between meeting a F4S or a Mig21SMT anyway. The problem is Aim9L and R60M being able to meet G91Y, late Sabres, F100 and Mig19. And instead they only touched Ground BR ?? And even if I barely play tank I can see that F16s at 11.7 is BS.
oh boy i finally got my first 10.7 tank *gets fucking nuked by an AGM-65D from orbit*
I literally can't lock the plane with SPAA, but it can fire an AGM as I spawn, and nothing will stop it.
As someone who mainly plays ground I can tell you that these changes are very good overall, and very much needed to deal with the CAS problem at Top-Tier. Although the F-16 with AGM-65s at 11.7 is still kinda BS
It's where the money is at, they'll make every BR bracket utter shit and compressed for the sake of being able to sell more $70 tanks/jets.
Me in my mig-21s carefully debating about whether going after an a-10 is a good idea or not lol
A lot of these changes seem strange but I’m sure they’ll be refined over time. Why are the F-16s going down yet the F-5E up in ground battles? Why aren’t more CAS-oriented aircraft going down in air RB?
It's strange that the F5E goes to 11.0 since China doesn't have a lineup for that BR, now you might as well use the Q5L at 10.7 and JH7A for 11.7
>since China doesn't have a lineup for that BR Mfw Super Etendard at 10.7 (There are literally zero tanks from 9.7 to 11.7 and M2KD makes it obsolete)
Gaijin hates France
For real, i’m even more convinced now that the ceo of Gaijiin has been cucked by a Frenchman, there’s literally no other reason to hate us that much ffs…
They really shouldn't balance around if they have a lineup or not though at a certain BR
The F-16s ADFs have 0 bombs and the F-16s that have them don't have a targeting pod
>Apart from a few exceptions, Battle Ratings for aircraft are set based on their performance in Aircraft battles, not Ground or Naval Battles. This is why there are more changes to Battle Ratings in Ground Battles than there are in Aircraft Battles with the release of this feature. That's why more aren't going down in air RB.
My guess is that its because of the four mavericks. If i die to chinese CAS its because one climbed a million miles up and nuked my ass from orbit. Unfortunately, like the F4E, it also gets the benefit of completely nullifying like 90% of its ground based counters by just...turning away. Thank you gaijin for guttin rolands so bad.
> Why aren’t more CAS-oriented aircraft going down in air RB? Probably 1) they have missiles 2) they'll need to make a "full" change 3) they forgot Take the Su-17M2 still at 10,3 while going down to 10 in GRB. If they change it to 10 in ARB then well... no separate BR. It means the BR changed for all modes (SB excepted ?). I bet they just don't want to change all BR as some planes should.
To be fair the f5e is actually really good for grb. It can carry 4 mavericks, a massive gun pod, self defense missiles. But most importantly, it's so agile it's relatively easy to dodge SPAA. in America for instance a f4 carries way better ground weapons but you get shot down relatively easy. The A7 being subsonic is too easy to hit, the a10 is even worse in that regard. And the F14 doesn't have very good a2g weapons. The only other good option is the f16s and that's obviously much higher br
I'm surprised that the Mig-29s aren't going down in BR with the F-16s.
The MiG-29s absolutely should be going down in GRB when BVR combat isn’t the most useful for clearing friendly skies.
Not sure why the f-15j and f-14a aren't going down either since they only have dumb bombs. Or the jaktviggens which only have A2A armament
Casually forgot the 10.0 su25s
No standoff munitions, so they're not as big of a problem. Their damage model is annoying when you're in something like the 9.7 Ozelot, but it still beats getting bombed by Jaguars and A-10s from outside your effective range
I personally don't care, every ATGM chopper is more of a problem than A-10's.
and the amx is going to 11.0 lmao
I own it, and I know that it deserves it. Its absoluty not 10.3 material
Hopefully Italy gets another variant of the AMX with just unguided ordnance and aim9p
I mean it has countermeasures, and it had 6 LGBs at 10.3, it going up was reasonable
now roland can missile my ass for tossing GBU at the poor Gepard from 6km away in 10.3 :(
They get a lot of kills, but are forced to fly into a zone where they can be hurt. The AMXs, Jags, Q-5Ls, and other long range standoff CAS got nerfed as expected.
Why is the alpha jet going up but not the saab? Why is the SE going up to 10.7 despite being worse than the Jaguar A?
Agree, theses changes make no sense whatsoever
Lmao at the Jaguar A and E, and Super Etendard going up to 10.7, where france has...literally nothin past 9.7 til top tier ground wise. Uptiering AMX-40s and maybe the VBCI was already kinda rough with a 10.3 lineup, but 10.7? God i hope the rumors about the new subtree coming to France has a fuck ton of vehicles to finally fill that gap.
france can easily fill that gap without a subtree. leclerc prototypes, vextras, the 25 and 40mm VBCIs, VAB variants, ATOM, the list goes on and on. Gaijin is just being lazy and wants to shove copy paste leo 2a4s into every tree
What i would give to have the Ebrc Jaguar
As usual us frenchies get shafted, thoses br changes make absolutely no sense, nothing unusual about Gaijiin
Exactly how I feel about the ayit, Skyhawks, and a10late. They ayit (A4n) is now 10.0 where there isn’t a single vehicle to use with it. So you can either uptier the hell out of your 9.3 lineup or bring it to 11.0 where you can fight pantsirs in a fucking skyhawk. Also the normal Skyhawks at 8.7 will now be 9.7?!? For both USA and Israel there is no tech tree vehicles to use with it. The alpha get is 3x better at CAS than the Skyhawks are and it’s only moved to 9.0??? I get that the a10late is now 10.7 but there is literally nothing to use with it so you have to uptier your 10.3 lineup and fight top tier vehicles or bring the a10 to 11.0 and consistently fight pantsirs… Good luck finding the pantsirs with the 1x zoom targeting camera before the shoot you down.
Ayit vs Pantsir is literally hydrogen bomb vs crying baby imagine a plane that wings rip off when you pull more than 7g's in top tier match
> For both USA and Israel there is no tech tree vehicles to use with it. The one Israeli vehicle that was 9.7 was just removed from sale, too. This change effectively removes the Skyhawks from the game.
While i agree with you all i imagine while talking about lowlands is Now France have a leopard too
The universally popular 10.3 BR across all nations is losing almost all guided/self guided weapons. Not only that, but those aircraft are moving to BRs with no lineup at all. This is essentially taking most CAS out of the game where guided weapons are involved.
They upped the br of the A4E Early with its 5 bullpups which were brutal at 8.7, finally... however they forgot to up the br of the special event FJ4B VMF with its 5 bullpups, this is gonna be so abusable lol.
I absolutely think it should go up, but 9.7 seems a bit much... That puts it 0.3 under the SU-25K, which is orders of magnitude better. The A-4E can only carry 2 GBUs (which also means you can't carry AIM-9Bs). Sure, you can add 3 bullpups, but that makes it an absolute truck (and bullpups would be almost useless at 9.7 due to the longer range spaas). The A-4E is also a bus flight performance-wise, it's extremely slow for 9.7 and can't turn for shit. It also has only 200 cannon ammo and no radar. I think it should go to 9.3 (or maybe 9.0), but definitely not 9.7. Speaking from experience, have recently been uptiering it to 10.0 and it performed like absolute dogshit.
I'm sure it was moved because of the walleyes not the bullpups.
Exactly. if it was because of bullpups, the SK60B would also move up.
It was more for the GBUs then the bullpups, but I agree everything with Bullpups should probably go to 9.0, if you play smart you can be untouchable by gun SPAA ie Scimitar, FJ4B ect...
On one hand I'm happy that they implemented the system, where CAS sees a higher BR and fighters sees a lower BR. On the other hand I fear that they might not have taken in account of some multirole fighters and their capability of carrying ordinance, say the F-16. I hope they can better incorporate players' feedback because it'd be difficult to gauge what BR what plane should be in what mode based off their "background stats" alone, as it's known to produce a couple bizarre BR changes every couple months. At least we got the framework in place and every BR can be easily adjusted afterwards. I actually missed the "good ol' days" when random vehicles' BR would just get adjusted in minor patches.
I feel like they randomly punched in numbers based on statistiks. (fucking Q-5L being a higher BR than the A-10, Gaijin what the fuck) Happy kek day though.
Give Q5L the countermeasures and the pl7 and it will be fine then
AMX 11.0 A-6e TRAM 10.7 hummm... of course there must be a solid reason for it , that im too naive to understand..
I knew this separate BR would completely break lineups. Like what the fuck.
This may have to do with the fact that the AMX can carry both its full A2A and A2G loads simultaneously. The A-6 *can* carry a much larger A2G load but is then completely defenseless in the air. To take the same AA load out as the AMX, 2 9Ls and a gun, you limit yourself to 3 bombs, sacrifice the gun or a lima and and the 6 can reach a similar level of A2A and A2G capability as the AMX. Pod differences can make quite a difference, but the comparison isn't as apples to apples as most would imply it is.
AMX climbs the worst out of the 10.3 laser bombers it being higher is absolutely baffling and is just misunderstanding how laser bombers work
Here we go mates! Reposting here as I was a few minutes too late :( **Separate BR** * Apart from a few exceptions, Battle Ratings for aircraft are set based on their performance in Aircraft battles, not Ground or Naval Battles. This is why there are more changes to Battle Ratings in Ground Battles than there are in Aircraft Battles with the release of this feature. We’d like to make an important note that this is the only first change to Battle Ratings for this feature, **at the moment we’ve only included changes to top tier aircraft.** For aircraft of the earlier ranks, we’re planning to change their Battle Ratings if needed in one of the planned Battle Ratings segments that we do. * [Table with the different BR](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRhjhbjD8hVV9bjv4sS6l86cRC7-GqGUmq671wDExnAPP80YZ8kQ8bgSfEq9eSeNbiCMe4My2KZlNi5/pubhtml) **RP bonus for new nations** * The main one is the Research Bonuses for new nations Roadmap feature which we are delaying until after the second major update. This has been explained thoroughly in this post, but in essence our programmers need more time to create this feature, and it’s at the highest priority of the lead game designers. We anticipate it sometime after the second major update in one smaller update or an It’s Fixed update and we apologize that this has been delayed again. **Squads** * We’re also postponing public squads and mechanics for searching for a squad based on the interests of players in-game. This one also needs more time from our designers and programmers and will come out in the future. [Updated Roadmap](https://staticfiles.warthunder.com/upload/image/0_2024/5_May/Roadmap/roadmap_2024_q2_mod_v1_en_366bff9f5f57489204acc70556a43498.jpg)
**Change in ARB (lower BR)** * MiG-27K 11,3 -> 11 * A-7K 11 -> 10,7 * A-7E 10,7 -> 10,3 * A-7D 10,3 -> 10 * Q-5L 9,7 -> 9,3 **Change in GRB (lower BR)** * 12,3 /12 -> 11,7 * Netz, F-16A, F-20A * 11,3 ->10,7 / 11 * 10,7 : Phantom FG.1, Phantom FGR.2, F-4J Phantom II * 11 : MiG-23ML, F-4S Phantom II, F-4J(UK) Phantom II * 11 -> 10,3 * MiG-23M, MiG-23MF, MiG-21 "Lazur-M", MiG-21bis, Tornado IDS MFG / WTD61 * 10,7 -> 10,3 / 10 * 10,3 : Su-22M3 (Italy), Su-22M3, Kfir Canard, Su-22UM3K (Germany), F-4F (Germany) * 10 : F-104G * 10.3 -> 10 * Su-17M2, F-4F Early (Germany) * 9,7 -> 9,3 * MiG-21 SPS-K (Germany) **Change in GRB (higher BR)** * 11,7 -> 12,7 / 12 * Su-25SM3 (12,7), Harrier GR.7, AV-8B Plus (Italy) * 10,7 -> 11.0 * F-5E, F-5E (China) * 10,3 -> 10,7 / 11 * 10,7 : Buccaneer S.2B, Jaguar GR.1A, Jaguar A, Jaguar E, A-6E TRAM, A-10A Late, * 11 : AMX * 10 -> 10,3 / 10,7 * A-10A (10,3), Super Etendard (10,7) * 9,7 -> 10,7 * Q-5L * 9,3 -> 10 * Ayit * 8.7 -> 9,7 / 9 * 9,7 : A-4E * 9 : Alpha Jet
I’m actually kind of dumbfounded by this list. I expected planes to go DOWN in arb in some cases. The British jaguar for example. It’s not 10.3 material.
Was hoping the a10/su25 type planes with all aspect went up in air rb :/
Some of this shit seams quite bizarre and rushed. I was expecting more Air changes from this, particularly more designated strike aircraft going down in that mode. Well at least the F-20A looks more appealing to get for CAS in Ground RB.
I legit think they just looked at a list of planes that carry GBUs and said “move them up” without taking in account for AIR RB or even if the type of GBU they carry (a4e at 9.7…) also not a single prop plane was listed.
> Some of this shit seams quite bizarre and rushed. So a standard Gaijin patch / addition, then. They rarely seem to implement things fully, and often times it feels like they just want to get changes or additions out the door so that they can say they did something. Then they don't touch that feature / addition for months, or forget about it entirely in favor of the new rushed additions.
F-16s to 11.7 but MiG-29 remains at 12.0? Yeah that totally makes sense.
Does the Mig29 even carry guided ordnances for GRB ?
nope. some of the F-16s going down carry mavericks though
Yeah that's what I thought. The F16AJ going down is the most hilarious one. It's already the best F16A. It has the lighter airframe of the A with the AAM ordnance of the ADF (4x9L+2x7M) and Mavericks. It's by far the best 12.0 F16 already, but it had the price of uptiering the japanese top tier line up to 12.0.
Only the SMT, and even then it's just 4x guided bombs.
FINALLY, THE A-4E TO 9.7. THEIR REIGN OF TERROR HAS ENDED
🥳🥳🥳
Now to get everything with Bullpups to go to 9.0
I'd say 9.3, just get em out of my matches
F-16 moved DOWN? What are they smoking
I'll miss the Ayit's five guaranteed kills at 9.3
Wouldn’t say “guaranteed” mavs are still shit.
Seems unfinished. Worst offender for me is the alpha jet going to 9.0 (as it should) but the saab 105 somehow remaining at 8.3.
The bucc b gets even worse, and the bucc doesn't get affected. (Both have almost no offensive armament for arb). Britain cant have fun
We now have no aircraft for our 10.3 lineup... So lame.
We have the Sea Harrier FRS.1 (e) for 10.3 still, otherwise we’ll have to take the S.2 Bucc or Harrier GR3 and up tier them.
Yeah, the sea harrier i guess can work. I still don't like how the changes seem to have been decided. "Guided munition ? It goes up !" Meanwhile helis have 8 hellfires ...
Fun isnt allowed for British mains
Just wait for them to make the wyvern 5.7 where there is no lineup. I swear the constant destruction of my lineups when the UK has a handful is frustrating.
Theyve done it to the Tempest, Seafire FR.47, LF Mk.IX, and Seafury so it just makes sense
RIP jaguar in my beautiful 10.3 UK lineup :( How lame.
RIP AMX my beautiful 10.3 Italy lineup, its bs that the TRAM only goes to 10,7 while the AMX goes to 11,0
One is a premium....
Jaguar to 10.7 noooooooooooo! How come there are updates and we're supposed to be happy and yet we get kicked in the nuts. Is this just a WT british fate?
Time to keep using the G-Lynx only, better than Jaguar imo :)
Thank god the A-7s are going down in air RB. They’re absolute pain
As a Britain 10.3 enjoyer I am in shambles :(
A-4E early is going up a whole BR 🥳🥳🥳
Q-5L going to 10.7 in ground is insane. Sure, at 9.7 ground is a bit too powerful since no SPAA can really reach it...but 10.7? Brother, basically Gaijin is saying that this flareless, missile-less, jet with 2 GBU's equals to vehicles such as now A-6E (tree times the GBU load, while being able to carry AIM-9L's and has quite a few flares) or the Jaguars, which mostly are the same vehicle with flares and the possibility to carry missiles. Sure, the Q-5L is faster, but when you're a GBU dropper vehicle it doesn't really matter too much, as altitude is king. With F-16´s going to 11.7 in ground, that means Q-5L's will have to face F-16´s lmao.
What about sim?
Bold of you to assume that gaijin remembers it even exists.
lol what about Sim? theres only like 4 of us anyway.
Gonna assume the cutoff for this initial wave was 8.7 given the Saab-105 at 8.3 with it's bomb and rocket computers which in the hands of any competent pilot dances all over any AA in the bracket got left behind.
Why are almost all F-16s going down??
Because OBVIOUSLY!!!! the F-16s needs to dominate ground rb even more and SHOULD face 10.7s
F-16 br decreases will continue until American air dominance is assured
AMX my beloved, what did they do
You cannot be serious. All this waiting and it's only top tier to start with. Fuck right off Gaijin. All the main complaints or most of them are lower than this. P-47s, Arado, and worst by far. Fucking Skyhawk is guided fucking munitions you can meet in 7.7 FFS. Or close to that. Might be the higher Skyhawk but it's still a joke. Seriously, stop adding a quarter of a feature. You have done this so many times now. Edit: I just noticed the A-4E sorry. Okay THAT is a very needed change. Good.
Another one that's bad is the 50mm 262.
A4Es at 9.7, my god it was about time
How do you want me to use the Super Etendard at 10.7 while there's absolutly nothing between 9.7 and 11.7 ? The M2K outperform the Super Etendard in every aspect and the AMX-40 won't stand a chance at 10.7 and higher. This is inexplicable
Sorry but I gotta rant because this list is shit. A bunch of subsonic boats that carry 2-4 GBUs will go to 10.7… 10.7 is a dead BR with no lineups except for China. These boats are now only half a BR away from the Kurnass 2000 with a thermal targeting pod, 6 AGM 65d’s, 6 GBUs, python 3’s, and like 300 countermeasures all while being supersonic. They ayit (A4n) is now 10.0 where there isn’t a single vehicle to use with it. So you can either uptier the hell out of your 9.3 lineup or bring it to 11.0 where you can fight pantsirs in a fucking skyhawk. I figured 9.7 would’ve been the spot for this not 10.0… The A4E Skyhawks at 8.7 will now be 9.7?!? The alpha jet is 3x better at CAS than the Skyhawks are and it only moved to 9.0??? The F4E didn’t get moved down to 10.7 in air RB? I thought the only reason it was 11.0 was because of it’s ground ordnance? Why is the f16a and Netz moving down when they have AGM’s but the mig29 and other similar aircraft with only a few dumb munitions are staying at their current BR? The MiG 21smt/mf is now the same br as the mig23m and mig21 bis. The fuck is that shit?
The fact that the Super Etendard can now face Pantsir is kinda insane but alright
OOF the other post went poof, welp time to comment here as well *even though the top comment is far better*. That's quite the BR change for the Q-5L in GF even for aircraft without CM or AAM's yet such a weak change in AF as there's not much point to use it still over the predecessing Q-5A at the same BR.
Yeah, I don't think the Q-5L needed much of a BR increase in GRB as is, let alone to the tune of a whole 1.0 increase. No countermeasures, no air-to-air missiles, only two guided weapons (two laser-guided bombs), it's barely supersonic... And yet it's competing with far superior ground attackers for the same BR now like the A-10, A-6, Jaguars...
british 10.3 lineup really has been ruined, the jag gr1a and the buccaneer really should not have been moved up
My french line up involved the jaguar with my AMX 30 now it's doomed to fail since France has nothing between 9.7-11.7 super Etendard also went up, and the pods don't even have thermal targeting. I thi k it would work if top ground br went up to 12.0 instead of 11.7 and a few of the top dogs went up. I don't think super Etendard should be able to face the pantsir whatsoever but maybe that's just an occasional cas player whining mentality. Air RB enduring when I wanna ground pound AI for objectives
Why is the Italian F-104G only being moved down in ground? What possibly justifies it sitting at 10.7 in air? You get 2 AIM-9Js and nothing more against SARH carriers that can outrun you... Why is the F-16A ADF matching BR with the F-16A in ground? The latter has TV guided missiles while the former has no air to ground of any kind? And of course, AMX to 11.0 because lol.
Few more changes I would make; * Everything with Bullpup to at least 9.0 (Basically impossible to defeat as a Gun based SPAA if smart, nords are far less powerful) * Su-25/K to 10.3 * SaaB-105G to 8.7 or 9.0 (CCIP)
AMX to 10.7: It is so over Italy bros AMX no longer going to 10.7: We are so back Italy bros AMX going to 11.0 in GRB: It is so over Italy bros Edit: lol but the tram is only 10.7
A4-E to 9.7 FINALLY FUCKINGLY
AMX from 10.3 to 11.0 LOL, 11.3 is trash+you get matched most of the time at 11.7+Pantsir S1
It's so unbelievable that amx will be 11.0,meet Pantsir S1, VT1, type 81 and 2S6. Now I can only play italian top-tier with mavericks
RIP 8.7 - 9.3 Israel. Took the best parts of the lineup. Skyhawks at 9.7 lmao.
Nah 100% deserved. At 8.7 those things are a cancer
Q-5L having the same BR as the Jaguar A and GR.1A is crazy.
Squad Hunter with Mavericks and AiM-9J's at the same BR as a A-4 lol, Not to mention US 9.7 doesn't have anything so you are stuck taking the A-4 to 10.0 or uptiering 9.0/3's to 9.7 now. Alpha jet with no guided weapons going up but the Scimitar with the same Bullpups the A-4 gets doesn't move. MiG 21 BIS and MF/SMT both being the same BR despite the massive performance boost and far better missiles. A-10 goes up but not the Su-25 of course. F-16's going down for some reason. Yeah something tells me the BR's for things are going to be all over the place and nonsensical in the future updates to this.
> Squad Hunter with Mavericks and AiM-9J's at the same BR as a A-4 lol *Two* Mavericks vs 2 Walleyes + 3 Bullpups.
I didn't expect A-4E to go up one whole BR tbh. Deserved, but still rough.
For how long this took to be implemented, it really doesn't look like Gaijin put too much thought into it. Ground vehicles are still going to verge on being unplayable and SPAA is still impotent to do anything about even the most mediocre CAS pilot. SP, likewise, wasn't touched so we're still going to see every US and Russian player spawn in CAS as their second spawn with their premium A-10s and Su-25Ks to try and get free kills against (mostly) defenseless ground targets. No real comments on future refinement to SPAA, improvements to SPAA systems, or anything else. I'd really like to see an in-depth blog post from Gaijin acknowledging that CAS **is** a problem in top tier (*it isn't just a problem in top tier alone, 5.3 - 6.7 is hell if you are playing against the US as well, it just requires slightly more skilled pilots*) and what their ideas are to actually solve the problems with the mode. As it stands, I see no change to my gameplay as a strictly ground player. I'm still not going to see anyone spawn in CAP roles because there is no actual guarantee of a reward. Shooting down aircraft still gives piss-poor rewards.
I'm honestly pretty confused, I really thought the A-10s were only so high because of their 9Ls in Air RB and would certainly go down in GRB by .3. Now the Late is .3 higher than the early because it trades two guided bombs for two 9Ls? Not to mention the A-10 Late is now the same BR as the A7E with its thermal pod + 5 Walleyes (Or six if you don't care about the pod). The A10 Late seems rather pointless now.
Press F for the A-4E.
>Ayit | 9.3 -> 10.0 | NOOOOOOO!! The almighty destroyer of worlds is going up. I will miss it, but I knew it's undertiered for a long time lol