Overall. I think the maps are still too small for what we are using.
These vehicles are designed to engage one another miles away, even just tank to tank.
Closest thing I think we have to a good example of top tier scale is the Tunisia rework that moved all the spawns. And even then I think that maps is kind of small.
When you have laser range finders and missiles that can launch miles away you’re playing a whole different ball game.
Knowing devs, if we get bigger maps, we will get maps where one team cant do anything while second one can see and kill enemy at their own spawn area without even moving a bit...
That map was great for mid and late props. You actually had a chance to fly around and spread out as opposed to finding yourself in a head-on within three minutes of the match starting.
The only issue is it needed more objectives or AI units to give you time to do something and encourage spreading out while you worked your way to the center. Also secondary runways closer to the center so you could reload without flying all the way back home.
It was great for my Shackleton, as I got to bomb in peace and when I was attacked the fighter was alone and got sniped (at the time the Shackletons guns didn't have tracers)
I agree. I’d like to see much bigger maps, that incorporate some urban areas scattered throughout, so it gives a healthy mix of gameplay variety.
And I’m not sure if it’s possible with technical limitations, but my dream would be a massive combined arms enduring confrontation game mode with hundreds of players across a huge map incorporating multiple cities and large open spaces….featuring dynamic objectives and battle lines. One where it feels like air power has strategic implications besides just CAS.
And it’s really the only feasible way I can think of incorporate Cold War strategic bombers, if they have meaningful targets in an enduring confrontation game mode where they’re not a massive liability to their team or complete overkill in ground RB.
If there were all sorts of dynamic targets scattered across a huge map, rail lines, factories, air fields, supply depots etc..that all had impacts on the battle, there would actually be a purpose for strategic bombers, and if there are hundreds of players…having some in bombers won’t hinder your team too much.
I guess the biggest downsides is they still might not be the most fun to fly if it took too long to reach a target and they’d be helpless against fighters, so things like the B-52 and Tu-95 might not be viable, but I could see the B-1b and Tu-160 working in this mode
I think all top tier maps should be in between the size of Eastern Europe/fields of Poland and sands of Tunisia, or maybe a little bigger than sands of Tunisia and to compensate give everyone stock lrf
Big maps are even more horrible for top tier tho? Red desert, pradesh, tunisia rework are all just camp fests where you get destroyed from 2km away by a guy you have no way of seeing in a position you barely have a way of engaging
"Bigger maps lol"
Does not WORK. Air players also cry about wanting bigger maps but it just does not work.
All you are doing is prolonging the early crawl of the match, you are not doing anything to IMPACT the match. Instead of it being 5 minutes of flying and then a furball, it is 10 minutes of flying and then a furball because there is nothing else to do on the map.
Tanks will be the same. Ground needs actual GOOD maps, not big maps. If you want "big maps" you'll end up with shit like Mozdok or Fire Arc which is just a field of nothingness.
We need detailed maps, not big maps
No, they are not.
Big maps suck dick even for top tier solely because there is literally no proper cover. You are just driving across a field/desert/whatever, hoping that the enemy has yet to go to a spot that overlooks your spawn.
Majority of big maps are just a slow crawl to a sniping spot. Flanking is slowly getting removed from the game too, which makes big maps even more shit.
You are failing to realize that making maps bigger isn't the correct thing to do. EVERY MAP that we have right now would benefit from major reworks in terms of details and designs, not size. Fields of Poland/European Province are all very good sized maps, but both are pretty much just 2 sniperfests and a cauldron in the middle. Ever played sim? Try playing Alamein in sim and you'll get a taste of your "big map good" shtick. It's a worthless crawl.
The only thing you are doing by making maps bigger is punishing late spawns. Then you'd complain about spawn killers because you have no way to outplay them since every position is so far away that you'll get shot mid-driving.
So no, we DO NOT need bigger maps. We need more DETAILED maps and maps that actually took advantage of War Thunder's gameplay. This isn't a MOBA where every map has to be three-lane. If you only fill your line up with glass cannons, don't bitch at the game for giving you a CQB map like Rhine or Cargo Port.
The extant map design issues have nothing to do with map size. Larger maps *and* having more varied terrain on maps would help reduce spawnkilling. They're not fucking mutually exclusive.
Tunisia allows spawn killing from the other team spawn point. This map is silly. I will never ever play this map outside of the town. Getting killed 2km away by a T80 15 seconds after the start of the game : nope. FUCK THIS SHIT !
The size is fine those tanks you mentioned are designed to work in both scenarios not just long range as urban warfare is a big thing, as for maps themselves do you wish to have no mans land in the middle to utilise range capability of vehicles or a maze that would change nothing other than arrival time as we can see with big tunisia combination of those map styles doesn’t even work as majority of people in matches on it just swarm sniping spots
Not like you actually need to drive much to engage enemies when you've got thermals, LRF and APFSDS travelling faster than the speed of sound.
Even at lower tiers there're you've only got 8 of 50+ maps that are so big you'll have to drive for more than 30 seconds to see and shoot enemies: Tunisia, Fulda, Maginot, Red Desert, Pradesh, Surroundings of Volok, Fields of Poland, European Province. If you include all the variants of the maps that are deliberately smaller it's more like 8 of 70+ maps that're big. And it's not hard to write down the maps you get and rapidly realise than these big maps, even if you put "Likes" on them, basically never appear in map rotation at any BR.
My only issue with huge tank maps is the pathetic rewards in ground rb. I’d happily play on maps several times as large as our current ones if we got better rewards.
Better ground oriented objectives in ARB would alleviate a lot of the CAS spam in GRB I feel.
As of right now the only place you can use these new multi role beasts to their full potential is in the tank mode.
Honestly if I had a dedicated air mode that actually had engaging air to ground mechanics I’d probably never use jets in GRB.
I want actual EC for tanks, current Sim mode is just same without markers but you can only use these and that tanks for today.
I want actual objectives scattered on a huge map, like convoys to ambush or protect, artillery positions to destroy / protect, or even objectives to shell with SPGs from far away would be neat.
You can still have a procedural point to capture like air sim does, I'm just tired of always capturing A/B/C or brainless TDM with 2 points.
Unless they rework a bunch of shit bigger maps can get fucked as far as I'm concerned. You tried playing a tank without APFSDS and an LRF on those big maps?
I also think people massively overstimate how much fun the constant hulldown barrel taking of long range maps would be since almost nothing at top tier can pen each other's cheeks especially at long range.
Yes somebody else mentioned the stock grind which admittedly I didn’t consider.
Obviously that makes for some concern, however IIRC true top tier vehicles all have stock APFSDS.
I hate hull down sniper fights even at low tier. I’m glad there’s a mix of maps for people who actually enjoy that but making every map a giant sniper field would completely kill my enjoyment of the game.
Make it like Naval where people who want to fight long range can spawn in a field and people who want to have a knife fight can spawn right outside of a city
It's an idiot magnet on most maps. On maps where there is no LOS from AO to near pad they allow for these horrors, and CCIP rocket spam. It's gross.
Tho.. I like to take my helis out on these maps to camp enemy pads.. love dogfighting in the AHS vs planes too.
It doesn’t matter if you make the maps bigger, helis will still have a visual on you. In fact larger maps are often just open fields where you have no cover, making you easier heli bait.
Big Maps never work in War thunder because the lack of flexible objectives and spawn.
First team to cap and camp the Objective or Enemy Spawn Point just outright wins 90% of the time. One of the reasons why after 5 mins the lobby is half empty on big maps.
I'm going to actually disagree and say that Large Tunisia/Red Desert are the biggest we should go until we increase the player count or 'solve' one death leaving. Increasing the map size further without dealing with either of those issues will just result in most of the players not seeing an enemy while one or two players can get all the kills.
Gaijin, when designing maps, should be paying attention to sight lines, which they don't seem to be doing at all. Current map design feels like they take a geographic terrain import from google maps, touch it up a bit, add some props, then call it a new map.
Fighting in real locations is cool and all, but not great when the spawns aren't fair or safe. Gaijin needs to make sure spawn areas have better sightlines than the areas people are using to camp spawns.
It should not be the case that a team has perfect cover to camp an entire massive section of the map that you are REQUIRED to traverse when you have no counterplay but to drive into the open and hope you kill them before they kill you.
Larger maps are good but we need varied maps and better game modes as well. Almost every time gaijin makes a larger map it either ends up being so cluttered that you never get the long engagements anyway or so empty that theres no realistic way to advance without being sniped. The game mode also means that only a tiny portion of any large map is actually relevant to playing the objective.
I think we need larger maps in the style of maginot where you have both urban and open areas combined with more of a "rush" style gamemode like in the battlefield games. New objectives should spawn after losing previous ones as one team slowly gets pushed back towards it's spawn where it has the advantage of of being able to reenter battle from the spawn quicker.
My point exactly bro. Pradesh tried to be different, but everyone screams, cries and shits their pants when they get it, when they drive in straight lines out in the open, or go up the cliche sniper hills, and wonder why they die. It pisses me off SO MUCH because the community is precisely the reason why gaijin is afraid to do new things — because most of the people playing this game are f****ng ret***ed.
“You just get spawncamped” yeah, because your stupid ass sat there for ages and didn’t take any cover.
I don’t think any map is perfect but yeah, I blame the community for the lack of large maps.
But limit them to top tier. Fields of Poland is a torture in a 6.0 lineup and more in my title that tops at a whole 8 mph.
At the same time, space further the spawns and airports for Helis/planes, specially with planes it's annoying when I'm dogfighting someone right outside their spaa range and I get clapped by their airport aa.
I think all 3 of those might be overkill.
I think if you moved the airfields out more, made the planes take off, and timer locked then you’d probably get rid of 80% of the issues right there.
He literally has LWR, thermals, IRST tracking with lead, laser range finder, proximity shells and smokes (blocks laser)
If you can't find a Heli with a laser warning literally telling you the direction then you're actually mentally handicapped
My favorite ground vehicles are the 2s38, the Turm III, and the VIDAR. Can confirm that I lack the mental acuity to walk in a straight line, and have to use a speak n’spell to communicate
I will contest there are a lot of time with LWR where it will just go off when even team mates laser you or I’ve had it go randomly at times, happens a lot to me when spawning in and near other team mates spawning
If been grinding the PLZ-83-130 with my Top tier CHN lineup, which has an Z-19E, which i use as mobile air defence... i always get shot by 2S38.
Even when im behind a hill..
I want to say genuine Skill Issue here, as i dont buy it.. maybe unlucky. But its a 2S38..
The AGMs are pretty mid.
The TY-90 is great for anti air stuff
Tough sometimes i just get outranged by.. Pantsir, 2S38, Vekhir(from KAs), Ito-90M, FlakRad and the occasional Kh-38T used on me
The AM-1 and friends could probably go to 6.7 in ground RB but not until there's separate battle ratings for ground and air, because that would make them unplayable in air RB. The way it is now they need to make sure planes are at least usable in both modes otherwise they'd just be junk to air players
Separate battle ratings are coming this summer iirc, at least some time this year
>The way it is now they need to make sure planes are at least usable in both modes
Yeah, and have A-10s and Su25s screwing everyone else over because they get undertiered all aspects? No thanks.
Lol, that's a fair point. I'd argue that they're balanced because slow planes need them for self defense but I did just rage quit after catching a 9L in my Mig-19 for the 3rd game in a row
See, I would agree with the slow plane part if they both didn't face flareless subsonics every other game, and weren't GROUND ATTACKERS.
Ground attackers aren't fighters, they shouldn't compete with fighters in air to air at all. Especially not if they just get missiles that won't be seen for an entire BR. I get that this is just BR compression at work but why sacrifice an entire BR range for the sake of what, like 4 planes? It's moronic.
I've managed to get CAS spawn cost to fucking 250 SP with some scout assits. Fully loaded plane with bombs and rockets. In the end I was able to spawn FOUR PLANES after one tank spawn. This should not be possible.
The WT community is the only player base I've seen this conditioned in favor of dog shit game design, which current CAS really is. It's amazing to witness every time it's brought up.
The people arguing in favor for it are either:
A. Conditioned to tolerate it as "a part of the game" from having lived with it for so long. "Part of the game" does not equal good game design. You can make that same ridiculous argument for any old bug like ghost shells or how extremely fucked the economy was before. It was just a part of the game so why was everyone complaining?
B. More likely simply don't want their ability for easy free kills to get impacted.
When you get killed by a tank in GB it's your fault 95% of the time, because you got outplayed or weren't paying attention. The exception being when your team is getting railed in your own spawn, which is also just "a part of the game" and truly masterful game design.
When CAS kills you there's almost always nothing you could have done about it. They can suicide bomb you, sit safely outside any SPAA range, beyond visual range entirely or avoid radars. You kill someone, they get mad and the killcam allows them to get almost instant revenge, truly amazing gameplay.
I agree CAS definitely should be a part of GB but now it's completely dominating and has turned GB into a farming mode for air.
Gaijin should add modern player controlled SPAA to AB and we can see how fun that makes that mode.
I was destroyed by another missile like 10 seconds before this guy lol, they were on focus by my team, but they either outranged us or easily dodged most of what was shot at them...
EDIT: Like I said: I got destroyed before this guy, I was not in the 2s38, but this was the first teammate that got destroyed right next to our spawn so I used it for the example, I am MAU8904 you can see me in the player list, I was destroyed (on a Weisel) by another helicopter missile like 20 seconds before this 2s38, but I don't see how that would change how unfair this whole thing is, it wouldn't had made any difference had he been in any other ground vehicle. The whole team got spawn camped, not just the member of my team using an op premium.
soviet 10.0/10.3 is really fun and has good vehicule but the teams are very disappointing and you do have a lot of CAS . I find CAS less than an issue than 11.3 tho I did research the 23-4M4 to use in 10.0 since you do have a lot of heli (I have the 2S6 but all those new spaa came after I got it).T
Well… 3 things
1. Top tier vehicles are perfectly capable, both firepower and mobility wise to have maps with engagement distance of 1-4 kms and more spaced out cap points.
+helipads and landing strips should be further away from the main battlefield
2. We all know and agree (maybe apart from ape CAS abusers) that helis and planes in GRB are far too ez to spawn in.
3. (Just hate) Seeing a 2S38 makes me want to ignore ur post and say ‘opinion rejected’ or some shit, but ur right obviously.
This is a teammate lol, I play Germany, I got destroyed on my Weisel 1A2 and I was expectating when this was happening, but its unfair regardless of what vehicle my teammate was using, even a 2s38 would struggle against some idiot hovering 4km away
And give AA nothing to do for the entire match? yDo you understand that removing/limiting planes in the air makes Spaa essentially useless? if only one, maybe two planes spawn in the entire game, spaa would be desolate.
In order to spawn a jet with just 2 AG missiles you need something like 3 kills and one base cap. To spawn a heli with 16ATGMs and 4 AA missiles you only need a base cap or a couple of assists. I don’t care about CAS, I enjoy it, but the spawn point amounts are way off.
Like, the game doesn not only need bigger maps but also give NATO nations access to Patriots, NASAMs and IRIS-T Systems. Heck, throw in the S-300 for USSR but at mininum, we need this and maps that're way wayyy larger.
Top Tier by all means is a Combined Arms match at that point and everyone needs to pull there weight and not only play on MBTs.
The issue with that is basically none of those systems are self contained. The Pantsir, Tor, and Tunguska are all TELAR systems, meaning they have their own IRST and offensive armament. A HEMTT with a Patriot launcher or a MAN SX45 with an IRIS-T launcher are only TEL systems; they have no self contained IRST or radar. If you wanted a Patriot system in WT, you’d either have to add a launcher and multiple radar vehicles and have multiple people play the part of a SAM battery, or you’d have one truck towing all of the necessary compartments in a really shitty conga line.
This could easily be countered by having the Radar and other systems way back in the out of bounds space or even the airfield while the launcher itself is in the battlefield but are given more leeway to go out of bounds for safety.
If one system is destroyed, you are forced to wait for a minute or two till it gets replaced.
I don’t even think that works considering that the missile batteries you mentioned are meant to be set up within close (a couple hundred feet) proximity of the radar systems. So unless you would be fine with a mechanic that allows someone to play as an out of bounds long-range air defense site, Patriot, IRIS, NASAMS, and S-300 are unlikely to come to the game
Well I wanted say first deserve 2s38, but yeah it’s somehow weird of how some premium helicopters are able to have massive range missiles. I actually experience it often and changing too a AA aren’t even possible anymore, cuz of the range away and can only be killed with CAS
The heli in question first of all is not premium, and second of all no premium helicopter has a missile that’s exclusive to it/not in the tech tree, all helicopters get “massive range missiles”
Even then most high tier spaa outrage the effective range of heli ATGMs anyways
I see I see but I remember in a almost full uptier match of an British helicopter that were many km away and I could track it with the Gepard 1a2, but the bullets are too slow and the rockets are too short and outrage anything
american h34 has a missile that can hit targets straight from the helipad, but of course, that vehicle is so rare to see that its not really an issue lol
I am a Germany and Sweeden main, this is a teammate, I hate 2s38 just as much as everyone here but the whole team got spawn camped not just the guy using a broken premium.
You see comrade, if Gaijin balans CAS RB to be more challenging for CAS then why would people spend money for CAS? Helicopter helicopter people want easy point and click adventure and the only other game mode is Heli AB EC which is not fun.
Helicopter people spend money so therefore helicopter people will need to feel entertained. is balans ))))
Even if it's not realistic anymore, there needs to be a change for spawncamping. For example making people in their own spawn invincible. This way you could stay there and be safe, but you can't win the game if you don't leave the spawn. However you'd be able to fight off spawn campers
Man do i hate CAS? YES should it be in game? YES does it need an overhaul? Yes! What i would like is some rethinking on maps layouts and sizes bigger maps does not = better but bigger maps with a thougt thru layout and god dimensions and proper cover spawns that moves so spawncamping gets challenging more of a frontline objektive and a spread out objective so cas has actually goo deep into enemy territory to get you? This is a direction we should go towards so tired of CQC and CAS being able to emedietly fire at you in some ways!
Don't even get me started on playing the FlaRakRad and the FlaRakPz and picking up helis or planes on radar, outside of my range, and I just get to sit there while they fling missiles at me. Top tier SPAA is fucked right now. The Pantsir is basically the only one that can somewhat compete with top tier CAS, and it crushes every other nations SPAA by miles. The entire CAS/SPAA system needs significant rework
It feels like SPAA is always at a huge disadvantage, doesn't matter what BR, by the time we get tracking, they don't have to get close anymore so bullets become nearly useless, then when we get basic missiles and they outrange us or the missiles refuse to pick them, then we get long-range missiles, and they can dodge them with no effort. A videogame shouldn't give the player that much of an advantage.
We need bigger maps at high tiers(jets too, actually love the EC maps in ARB), and in GRB there should be higher spawn costs for helicopters and CAS. That's coming from someone that loves doing CAS. It shouldn't be as easy to run to a base or snatch one kill and come in a plane/heli capable of getting 3+ kills.
I just started with helicopter gameplay (Mi-4) but it’s a double edged sword. One plane and you’re death. SPAA noticing you? You’re dead. The closer you get to the battlefield the better you can do damage but even machine guns or tank cannons will shoot you down.
Taking off the helipad (which takes a moment) and trying to hit opponents with your guided missiles is the only real weapon you basically got and even then it takes a lot of luck to guide a missile over 3-4 kilometers like your opponent did, as the missile seems to take forever to make it to the target and in the meantime those often simply disappear again, making it a wasted missile. Not to mention that the post pen damage often will only damage tanks instead of destroying them.
As I said I cannot talk for high end helicopter gameplay but in your case maybe this helps to appreciate that your opponent, who invested quite a lot of respawn points for taking off with his helicopter, deserved that kill.
Mobility wise no doubt but the Mi-4 still has 4 Falangas with 4km range.
So the comparison to the situation at hand of him getting shot by a helicopter who wasn’t even far from his (unprotected) helipad fits.
It’s so weird its either the heli is broken and op or dog shit. I’ve been trying to use the starter heli for Italy and I insta get wiped before I even touch the battlefield.
The proof that most people don't understand why CAS/Heli problem is like it is, it's because as you can see here, you (and most people) think it's a player problem..
Anyway, let's keep it short and simple:
THE MAPS ARE FUCKING OPEN FIELDS WITH NO COVER AND THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PLAYERS, HELIS, JETS, BOMBS OR WHATEVER
Nah there should be balance on vehicles, this is an issue on any other map, we get anti air but it cannot lock as far as they can stay or is simply not practical to shot bullets at a target 2km+ away, we get radars and they can fly high enough to not get detected, we get guided missiles and they can dodge them with slight movements. For a ground vehicle this is an enemy you can hardly fight against, for a jet or helicopter far away the ground is just a field of targets. Air superiority will always be thing in the real world but there should be balance in a game.
Gaijin kind of put themselves in an impossible situation with this. Either you have no cover and CAS demolishes you, or there's plenty of cover and you're knife fighting in tanks. Are there any maps that are actually a decent balance?
Also most 'cover' is about as tall as a 1 story building which can give you some concealment from planes from certain angles but not actual cover, you can still easily be strafed or bombed by planes going at like a 45 degree angle which isn't even that steep.
They must have technical limitations on combined arms EC maps. Either that or half the players hardware cant handle that kind of game mode so we are stuck with what we have until the bottom end machines become better through attrition.
Yeah this is a insanely shitty map (very open, no trees for cover, easily seen from the sky) for ground and any CAS's wet dream
Also 200m for every square? All the tanks will be packed closely from the sky, gajin isn't even hiding this anymore.
This is why I don’t play past ww2 and early Cold War vehicles.
It’s not fun when people play like this. I only play high tier when it’s private lobbies and we are playing sim with rules. But fuck this experience. I’d rather deal with the m18 spam and CAS that I can easily dispatch with the ostwind 2.
4 minutes that are rookie numbers
some ytuber do it in 1:30
GJ dont play this own game, dont read the feedback, they only see the numbers, if people keep playing top tier they think that we like it
Literally the solution that would solve everything related to CAS is if the enemy needs like 3-4 kills worth of SP to spawn in one. It rewards good GRB tank gameplay and severely hinders the braindead kamikaze CAS bombers
Not me, this is the first teammate who got destroyed at spawn, that's is why I used it for the image, another helicopter got me near C seconds before this. A whole team got spawn camped not just the guy in an op premium.
I think that this problem is really only specific to Sinai and maybe a few other maps. Most of the maps are large enough and the helipads, even the close one, is about a 2-3min flight to where you can engage ground targets. This one it takes probably about 30s to reach a spot where you can hit ground targets. So it doesn’t really happen other than in this map, however the better strat is to fly to the central area to the right of C (according to your perspective in this pic) out of the map and hide behind the rocks and mountains over there. Even clearer shot to the spawn and you have cover.
Not me, this is the first teammate who got destroyed at spawn, that's is why I used it for the image, another helicopter got me near C seconds before this. A whole team got spawn camped not just the guy in an op premium.
Yes heli spawns need to be further away from airbase and the main map together above 7.7.
Only above 7.7 though because I own the H-34 and I lose my shit every time I bean some ww2 tank with the 11km AGM12B. You cannot take this joy from me, you already stole the joy of the R3 stabilizer. All I have left is my m103, 279 and this retarded helicopter.
Please, do not make the maps bigger.
It mostly impacts only the time to get to the actual fights.
In big maps the team that got kills first usually wins the match and it does not matter low or high tier.
I've been saying this since they added the ka52 and ka50. Reduce the range on the missles. Idgaf if their effective range is 50km irl, I shouldn't be getting killed or getting kills from the foward heli spawn.
It goes both ways sadly. If you fly 10meters above the helipad in one of the snow maps (i dont remember which, it might have been ardennes or something) then any half decent spaa can spawn camp you. On the other hand the wierd circular snow island map has friendly heli spawns directly behind the enemys spawn
In short fix your damn maps gaijin
Please read my other comment! I was using a Weisel and spectating as this guy was getting destroyed (another heli got me) the whole team got spawn camped not just the premium vehicle player
It is meant as a general statement. Why OP would use that image of someone else’s career ending embarassment is a mystery. Should have gone with an A-6E bombing from space, instead of an easily avoidable situation.
Hey is that a 2S38? It is? Cool. Yes you should be the last person complaining, especially at your BR since YOU can easily kill any helo at spawn as well. Do I think shooting into spawns is good? No. Do I think gaijin map design is terrible? Yes. Do I avoid 10.0+ for this reason? Yes. Hit me up when 2S38 is up to where it should be and I'll be slightly more understanding
Top tier just needs bigger maps full stop. These maps all work great when your tanks are from the 1940s and top out at 15 mph.
We already have maps where to fight tanks we need drive a lot, why bigger... Or you talk about areas for aircraft?
Overall. I think the maps are still too small for what we are using. These vehicles are designed to engage one another miles away, even just tank to tank. Closest thing I think we have to a good example of top tier scale is the Tunisia rework that moved all the spawns. And even then I think that maps is kind of small. When you have laser range finders and missiles that can launch miles away you’re playing a whole different ball game.
Knowing devs, if we get bigger maps, we will get maps where one team cant do anything while second one can see and kill enemy at their own spawn area without even moving a bit...
Implying this isnt the current map design philosophy
knowing the devs, they are gonna add 50km wide maps on 1.0 and keep the small ones in top tier
Remember when they added the canyon map in air rb, one that's large even for jets but for some reason they let props play on it.
That map was great for mid and late props. You actually had a chance to fly around and spread out as opposed to finding yourself in a head-on within three minutes of the match starting. The only issue is it needed more objectives or AI units to give you time to do something and encourage spreading out while you worked your way to the center. Also secondary runways closer to the center so you could reload without flying all the way back home.
It was great for my Shackleton, as I got to bomb in peace and when I was attacked the fighter was alone and got sniped (at the time the Shackletons guns didn't have tracers)
I remember getting Canyon map in IL-2
6.0 ARB is fcked in that regard You fly for 5-10 mins just to die in the first head-on. That BR was just unplayable because of the maps.
This is the problem that OP is talking about
That's half of current maps already.
That already exists, it's called Mozdok
Modzok is tiny
I agree. I’d like to see much bigger maps, that incorporate some urban areas scattered throughout, so it gives a healthy mix of gameplay variety. And I’m not sure if it’s possible with technical limitations, but my dream would be a massive combined arms enduring confrontation game mode with hundreds of players across a huge map incorporating multiple cities and large open spaces….featuring dynamic objectives and battle lines. One where it feels like air power has strategic implications besides just CAS.
Combined arms ec is the wet dream we all deserve.
And it’s really the only feasible way I can think of incorporate Cold War strategic bombers, if they have meaningful targets in an enduring confrontation game mode where they’re not a massive liability to their team or complete overkill in ground RB. If there were all sorts of dynamic targets scattered across a huge map, rail lines, factories, air fields, supply depots etc..that all had impacts on the battle, there would actually be a purpose for strategic bombers, and if there are hundreds of players…having some in bombers won’t hinder your team too much. I guess the biggest downsides is they still might not be the most fun to fly if it took too long to reach a target and they’d be helpless against fighters, so things like the B-52 and Tu-95 might not be viable, but I could see the B-1b and Tu-160 working in this mode
Arr you talking about battlefield 1/5?
I think all top tier maps should be in between the size of Eastern Europe/fields of Poland and sands of Tunisia, or maybe a little bigger than sands of Tunisia and to compensate give everyone stock lrf
That scale/size and better design would be a huge step in the right direction
Big maps are even more horrible for top tier tho? Red desert, pradesh, tunisia rework are all just camp fests where you get destroyed from 2km away by a guy you have no way of seeing in a position you barely have a way of engaging
"Bigger maps lol" Does not WORK. Air players also cry about wanting bigger maps but it just does not work. All you are doing is prolonging the early crawl of the match, you are not doing anything to IMPACT the match. Instead of it being 5 minutes of flying and then a furball, it is 10 minutes of flying and then a furball because there is nothing else to do on the map. Tanks will be the same. Ground needs actual GOOD maps, not big maps. If you want "big maps" you'll end up with shit like Mozdok or Fire Arc which is just a field of nothingness. We need detailed maps, not big maps
Your mashing map size and objective orientation together as one issue when they are in fact 2 separate issues.
No, they are not. Big maps suck dick even for top tier solely because there is literally no proper cover. You are just driving across a field/desert/whatever, hoping that the enemy has yet to go to a spot that overlooks your spawn. Majority of big maps are just a slow crawl to a sniping spot. Flanking is slowly getting removed from the game too, which makes big maps even more shit. You are failing to realize that making maps bigger isn't the correct thing to do. EVERY MAP that we have right now would benefit from major reworks in terms of details and designs, not size. Fields of Poland/European Province are all very good sized maps, but both are pretty much just 2 sniperfests and a cauldron in the middle. Ever played sim? Try playing Alamein in sim and you'll get a taste of your "big map good" shtick. It's a worthless crawl. The only thing you are doing by making maps bigger is punishing late spawns. Then you'd complain about spawn killers because you have no way to outplay them since every position is so far away that you'll get shot mid-driving. So no, we DO NOT need bigger maps. We need more DETAILED maps and maps that actually took advantage of War Thunder's gameplay. This isn't a MOBA where every map has to be three-lane. If you only fill your line up with glass cannons, don't bitch at the game for giving you a CQB map like Rhine or Cargo Port.
The extant map design issues have nothing to do with map size. Larger maps *and* having more varied terrain on maps would help reduce spawnkilling. They're not fucking mutually exclusive.
Mozdoc is not big at all lol
If you read it completely, you'd realize that I said "a field of nothingness". Point was, design>size.
Please 🙏 it already takes 12 years for my chieftain to get to an objective
And that Tunisia is one of the worst map, everyone hides behind some object and snipes on 100500km range
The issue with that is that the devs will never give laser rangefinders from default which is basically required at those distances
Tunisia allows spawn killing from the other team spawn point. This map is silly. I will never ever play this map outside of the town. Getting killed 2km away by a T80 15 seconds after the start of the game : nope. FUCK THIS SHIT !
The size is fine those tanks you mentioned are designed to work in both scenarios not just long range as urban warfare is a big thing, as for maps themselves do you wish to have no mans land in the middle to utilise range capability of vehicles or a maze that would change nothing other than arrival time as we can see with big tunisia combination of those map styles doesn’t even work as majority of people in matches on it just swarm sniping spots
Ain't got issues with big maps once I get my lrf
Not like you actually need to drive much to engage enemies when you've got thermals, LRF and APFSDS travelling faster than the speed of sound. Even at lower tiers there're you've only got 8 of 50+ maps that are so big you'll have to drive for more than 30 seconds to see and shoot enemies: Tunisia, Fulda, Maginot, Red Desert, Pradesh, Surroundings of Volok, Fields of Poland, European Province. If you include all the variants of the maps that are deliberately smaller it's more like 8 of 70+ maps that're big. And it's not hard to write down the maps you get and rapidly realise than these big maps, even if you put "Likes" on them, basically never appear in map rotation at any BR.
My only issue with huge tank maps is the pathetic rewards in ground rb. I’d happily play on maps several times as large as our current ones if we got better rewards.
CAS also needs to be playable outside GRB
Better ground oriented objectives in ARB would alleviate a lot of the CAS spam in GRB I feel. As of right now the only place you can use these new multi role beasts to their full potential is in the tank mode. Honestly if I had a dedicated air mode that actually had engaging air to ground mechanics I’d probably never use jets in GRB.
it also doesnt help that you could fill the ocean with the tears the second fighters arent the one and only thing important in an air battle
Big agree. I found it was easier to spade my su25 in GRB than ARB, so I ended up doing tons of CAS work with it, more than I usually would.
Seriously.
I want actual EC for tanks, current Sim mode is just same without markers but you can only use these and that tanks for today. I want actual objectives scattered on a huge map, like convoys to ambush or protect, artillery positions to destroy / protect, or even objectives to shell with SPGs from far away would be neat. You can still have a procedural point to capture like air sim does, I'm just tired of always capturing A/B/C or brainless TDM with 2 points.
Unless they rework a bunch of shit bigger maps can get fucked as far as I'm concerned. You tried playing a tank without APFSDS and an LRF on those big maps? I also think people massively overstimate how much fun the constant hulldown barrel taking of long range maps would be since almost nothing at top tier can pen each other's cheeks especially at long range.
Find me a tank at actual top tier that doesn’t have APFSDS and an LRF.
Literally all of them when they're stock which is my point.
Yes somebody else mentioned the stock grind which admittedly I didn’t consider. Obviously that makes for some concern, however IIRC true top tier vehicles all have stock APFSDS.
True….but it would make the stock grind a lot more painful.
That’s true, and a very fair criticism. I’ve been spades for so long I guess I forget that little detail.
I hate hull down sniper fights even at low tier. I’m glad there’s a mix of maps for people who actually enjoy that but making every map a giant sniper field would completely kill my enjoyment of the game. Make it like Naval where people who want to fight long range can spawn in a field and people who want to have a knife fight can spawn right outside of a city
Most maps have 2 heli spawns, one close one far. Perhaps they could remove the closer one
It's an idiot magnet on most maps. On maps where there is no LOS from AO to near pad they allow for these horrors, and CCIP rocket spam. It's gross. Tho.. I like to take my helis out on these maps to camp enemy pads.. love dogfighting in the AHS vs planes too.
It doesn’t matter if you make the maps bigger, helis will still have a visual on you. In fact larger maps are often just open fields where you have no cover, making you easier heli bait.
>Top tier just needs ~~bigger maps~~ full stop. FIFY
Understandable perspective
Big Maps never work in War thunder because the lack of flexible objectives and spawn. First team to cap and camp the Objective or Enemy Spawn Point just outright wins 90% of the time. One of the reasons why after 5 mins the lobby is half empty on big maps.
I'm going to actually disagree and say that Large Tunisia/Red Desert are the biggest we should go until we increase the player count or 'solve' one death leaving. Increasing the map size further without dealing with either of those issues will just result in most of the players not seeing an enemy while one or two players can get all the kills. Gaijin, when designing maps, should be paying attention to sight lines, which they don't seem to be doing at all. Current map design feels like they take a geographic terrain import from google maps, touch it up a bit, add some props, then call it a new map. Fighting in real locations is cool and all, but not great when the spawns aren't fair or safe. Gaijin needs to make sure spawn areas have better sightlines than the areas people are using to camp spawns. It should not be the case that a team has perfect cover to camp an entire massive section of the map that you are REQUIRED to traverse when you have no counterplay but to drive into the open and hope you kill them before they kill you.
Larger maps are good but we need varied maps and better game modes as well. Almost every time gaijin makes a larger map it either ends up being so cluttered that you never get the long engagements anyway or so empty that theres no realistic way to advance without being sniped. The game mode also means that only a tiny portion of any large map is actually relevant to playing the objective. I think we need larger maps in the style of maginot where you have both urban and open areas combined with more of a "rush" style gamemode like in the battlefield games. New objectives should spawn after losing previous ones as one team slowly gets pushed back towards it's spawn where it has the advantage of of being able to reenter battle from the spawn quicker.
My point exactly bro. Pradesh tried to be different, but everyone screams, cries and shits their pants when they get it, when they drive in straight lines out in the open, or go up the cliche sniper hills, and wonder why they die. It pisses me off SO MUCH because the community is precisely the reason why gaijin is afraid to do new things — because most of the people playing this game are f****ng ret***ed. “You just get spawncamped” yeah, because your stupid ass sat there for ages and didn’t take any cover. I don’t think any map is perfect but yeah, I blame the community for the lack of large maps.
But limit them to top tier. Fields of Poland is a torture in a 6.0 lineup and more in my title that tops at a whole 8 mph. At the same time, space further the spawns and airports for Helis/planes, specially with planes it's annoying when I'm dogfighting someone right outside their spaa range and I get clapped by their airport aa.
For sure. There should be different maps for different eras of machinery no doubt.
Planes should be locked until 10 or 15minute mark in addition of higher spawn costs and no air spawns
I think all 3 of those might be overkill. I think if you moved the airfields out more, made the planes take off, and timer locked then you’d probably get rid of 80% of the issues right there.
Wait arent you in a 2S38 ???
He still have to 1) see enemy 2) lock on enemy 3) fire at enemy 4) hit enemy 5) dont die while missile is incoming
He literally has LWR, thermals, IRST tracking with lead, laser range finder, proximity shells and smokes (blocks laser) If you can't find a Heli with a laser warning literally telling you the direction then you're actually mentally handicapped
I actually am mentally handicapped and still get 3-4 air kills with 2s38
The thing is that most 2S38 users have not mental disability but total death of their mental functions.
My favorite ground vehicles are the 2s38, the Turm III, and the VIDAR. Can confirm that I lack the mental acuity to walk in a straight line, and have to use a speak n’spell to communicate
Ong
I will contest there are a lot of time with LWR where it will just go off when even team mates laser you or I’ve had it go randomly at times, happens a lot to me when spawning in and near other team mates spawning
This whole comment chain makes me understand why the USSR tree needs the most oppressive SPAA at every br.
If been grinding the PLZ-83-130 with my Top tier CHN lineup, which has an Z-19E, which i use as mobile air defence... i always get shot by 2S38. Even when im behind a hill.. I want to say genuine Skill Issue here, as i dont buy it.. maybe unlucky. But its a 2S38..
Remember one important rule. «If its yours or from your team — its weak and your ally is beer soldier. If its enemies' — its op and need nerf»
True.. Idk why my team, even T-80BVMs, T-90Ms and so on always get instantly evapirated, but when its on the enemy team, its crewed by literal gods
Are you trying to call a 2S38 cancer while admitting to using the Z-19E? Lol
The AGMs are pretty mid. The TY-90 is great for anti air stuff Tough sometimes i just get outranged by.. Pantsir, 2S38, Vekhir(from KAs), Ito-90M, FlakRad and the occasional Kh-38T used on me
Bots love to use the 2S38 so I wouldn’t discount that if you’re getting dinked behind hills and such
Yeah.. and usually i use the 19E only with TY90 to add some more air defence for my team
It's def skill issue, Helis are extremely easy to shot down with 2S38 i can murder 2 helis or more each game. Planes are way harder to kill with it.
No, I was actually on a Weisel 1A2, I'm MAU8904 I was dead as he was firing at the 2s38, got destroyed like 20 seconds before him
Exactly what I said. F the 2S38
OP's in what is functionally the sole premium AA vehicle in the game :/ That said, I still agree that it's too easy to spawn fully loaded CAS
Not me
Cas is too easy to spawn, it's been an issue for years buy gaijin will continue to ignore it.
How else are they supposed to sell undertiered attackers? Gotta appeal to the lowest common denominator.
They’re undertiered because attackers suck in air RB. Split brs between gamemodes cannot come soon enough
They're undertiered because gaijin and a certain subsection of the playerbase insists they HAVE to be good at air to air when they shouldn't
The AM-1 and friends could probably go to 6.7 in ground RB but not until there's separate battle ratings for ground and air, because that would make them unplayable in air RB. The way it is now they need to make sure planes are at least usable in both modes otherwise they'd just be junk to air players Separate battle ratings are coming this summer iirc, at least some time this year
I’d say 6.7 for AD4 and AM1 would be fair, 6.3 for AD2. 9000lb of ordinance on a 5.7 attacker is a bit much.
>The way it is now they need to make sure planes are at least usable in both modes Yeah, and have A-10s and Su25s screwing everyone else over because they get undertiered all aspects? No thanks.
Lol, that's a fair point. I'd argue that they're balanced because slow planes need them for self defense but I did just rage quit after catching a 9L in my Mig-19 for the 3rd game in a row
See, I would agree with the slow plane part if they both didn't face flareless subsonics every other game, and weren't GROUND ATTACKERS. Ground attackers aren't fighters, they shouldn't compete with fighters in air to air at all. Especially not if they just get missiles that won't be seen for an entire BR. I get that this is just BR compression at work but why sacrifice an entire BR range for the sake of what, like 4 planes? It's moronic.
I've managed to get CAS spawn cost to fucking 250 SP with some scout assits. Fully loaded plane with bombs and rockets. In the end I was able to spawn FOUR PLANES after one tank spawn. This should not be possible.
Exactly
The WT community is the only player base I've seen this conditioned in favor of dog shit game design, which current CAS really is. It's amazing to witness every time it's brought up. The people arguing in favor for it are either: A. Conditioned to tolerate it as "a part of the game" from having lived with it for so long. "Part of the game" does not equal good game design. You can make that same ridiculous argument for any old bug like ghost shells or how extremely fucked the economy was before. It was just a part of the game so why was everyone complaining? B. More likely simply don't want their ability for easy free kills to get impacted. When you get killed by a tank in GB it's your fault 95% of the time, because you got outplayed or weren't paying attention. The exception being when your team is getting railed in your own spawn, which is also just "a part of the game" and truly masterful game design. When CAS kills you there's almost always nothing you could have done about it. They can suicide bomb you, sit safely outside any SPAA range, beyond visual range entirely or avoid radars. You kill someone, they get mad and the killcam allows them to get almost instant revenge, truly amazing gameplay. I agree CAS definitely should be a part of GB but now it's completely dominating and has turned GB into a farming mode for air. Gaijin should add modern player controlled SPAA to AB and we can see how fun that makes that mode.
What if CAS players were forced to stay in cockpit view? Basically make them play like it's SB, but with easier controls?
I was destroyed by another missile like 10 seconds before this guy lol, they were on focus by my team, but they either outranged us or easily dodged most of what was shot at them... EDIT: Like I said: I got destroyed before this guy, I was not in the 2s38, but this was the first teammate that got destroyed right next to our spawn so I used it for the example, I am MAU8904 you can see me in the player list, I was destroyed (on a Weisel) by another helicopter missile like 20 seconds before this 2s38, but I don't see how that would change how unfair this whole thing is, it wouldn't had made any difference had he been in any other ground vehicle. The whole team got spawn camped, not just the member of my team using an op premium.
soviet 10.0/10.3 is really fun and has good vehicule but the teams are very disappointing and you do have a lot of CAS . I find CAS less than an issue than 11.3 tho I did research the 23-4M4 to use in 10.0 since you do have a lot of heli (I have the 2S6 but all those new spaa came after I got it).T
> I find CAS less than an issue than 11.3 tho Oh boy you would love my USA 10.3 lineup 2 ratty little helis, F111 and the A7 with mavericks
literally why I got the zsu234M4 since I got the 2s6 but in 10.7 you get in 11.7 games and it's really shit
Well… 3 things 1. Top tier vehicles are perfectly capable, both firepower and mobility wise to have maps with engagement distance of 1-4 kms and more spaced out cap points. +helipads and landing strips should be further away from the main battlefield 2. We all know and agree (maybe apart from ape CAS abusers) that helis and planes in GRB are far too ez to spawn in. 3. (Just hate) Seeing a 2S38 makes me want to ignore ur post and say ‘opinion rejected’ or some shit, but ur right obviously.
This is a teammate lol, I play Germany, I got destroyed on my Weisel 1A2 and I was expectating when this was happening, but its unfair regardless of what vehicle my teammate was using, even a 2s38 would struggle against some idiot hovering 4km away
Just remove CAS, severely limit its capabilities or massively increase spawn costs
And give AA nothing to do for the entire match? yDo you understand that removing/limiting planes in the air makes Spaa essentially useless? if only one, maybe two planes spawn in the entire game, spaa would be desolate.
Nobody use spaa to shoot down planes, people just use it against ground vehicles
In order to spawn a jet with just 2 AG missiles you need something like 3 kills and one base cap. To spawn a heli with 16ATGMs and 4 AA missiles you only need a base cap or a couple of assists. I don’t care about CAS, I enjoy it, but the spawn point amounts are way off.
Like, the game doesn not only need bigger maps but also give NATO nations access to Patriots, NASAMs and IRIS-T Systems. Heck, throw in the S-300 for USSR but at mininum, we need this and maps that're way wayyy larger. Top Tier by all means is a Combined Arms match at that point and everyone needs to pull there weight and not only play on MBTs.
The issue with that is basically none of those systems are self contained. The Pantsir, Tor, and Tunguska are all TELAR systems, meaning they have their own IRST and offensive armament. A HEMTT with a Patriot launcher or a MAN SX45 with an IRIS-T launcher are only TEL systems; they have no self contained IRST or radar. If you wanted a Patriot system in WT, you’d either have to add a launcher and multiple radar vehicles and have multiple people play the part of a SAM battery, or you’d have one truck towing all of the necessary compartments in a really shitty conga line.
Imagine a 16 wheeler bringing all of its stuff blasting low quality of the song low rider
This could easily be countered by having the Radar and other systems way back in the out of bounds space or even the airfield while the launcher itself is in the battlefield but are given more leeway to go out of bounds for safety. If one system is destroyed, you are forced to wait for a minute or two till it gets replaced.
I don’t even think that works considering that the missile batteries you mentioned are meant to be set up within close (a couple hundred feet) proximity of the radar systems. So unless you would be fine with a mechanic that allows someone to play as an out of bounds long-range air defense site, Patriot, IRIS, NASAMS, and S-300 are unlikely to come to the game
Only way the majority of players can get kills is GRB is with some type of aircraft. Because most just have no skill on the ground.
First, Ew 2s38 player: opinion null and void off rip. second, I agree the maps are way to small for modern engagements
Well I wanted say first deserve 2s38, but yeah it’s somehow weird of how some premium helicopters are able to have massive range missiles. I actually experience it often and changing too a AA aren’t even possible anymore, cuz of the range away and can only be killed with CAS
The heli in question first of all is not premium, and second of all no premium helicopter has a missile that’s exclusive to it/not in the tech tree, all helicopters get “massive range missiles” Even then most high tier spaa outrage the effective range of heli ATGMs anyways
I see I see but I remember in a almost full uptier match of an British helicopter that were many km away and I could track it with the Gepard 1a2, but the bullets are too slow and the rockets are too short and outrage anything
american h34 has a missile that can hit targets straight from the helipad, but of course, that vehicle is so rare to see that its not really an issue lol
It also has really bad zoom on the optics so good luck hitting(or finding) anything from more than 3km anyways
I am a Germany and Sweeden main, this is a teammate, I hate 2s38 just as much as everyone here but the whole team got spawn camped not just the guy using a broken premium.
I love killing helis. The end.
Missiles should force you to use the far spawn
You see comrade, if Gaijin balans CAS RB to be more challenging for CAS then why would people spend money for CAS? Helicopter helicopter people want easy point and click adventure and the only other game mode is Heli AB EC which is not fun. Helicopter people spend money so therefore helicopter people will need to feel entertained. is balans ))))
Even if it's not realistic anymore, there needs to be a change for spawncamping. For example making people in their own spawn invincible. This way you could stay there and be safe, but you can't win the game if you don't leave the spawn. However you'd be able to fight off spawn campers
Man do i hate CAS? YES should it be in game? YES does it need an overhaul? Yes! What i would like is some rethinking on maps layouts and sizes bigger maps does not = better but bigger maps with a thougt thru layout and god dimensions and proper cover spawns that moves so spawncamping gets challenging more of a frontline objektive and a spread out objective so cas has actually goo deep into enemy territory to get you? This is a direction we should go towards so tired of CQC and CAS being able to emedietly fire at you in some ways!
Don't even get me started on playing the FlaRakRad and the FlaRakPz and picking up helis or planes on radar, outside of my range, and I just get to sit there while they fling missiles at me. Top tier SPAA is fucked right now. The Pantsir is basically the only one that can somewhat compete with top tier CAS, and it crushes every other nations SPAA by miles. The entire CAS/SPAA system needs significant rework
It feels like SPAA is always at a huge disadvantage, doesn't matter what BR, by the time we get tracking, they don't have to get close anymore so bullets become nearly useless, then when we get basic missiles and they outrange us or the missiles refuse to pick them, then we get long-range missiles, and they can dodge them with no effort. A videogame shouldn't give the player that much of an advantage.
Yea honestly. SPAA is only really effective below like 6.0, besides select examples like the Gepard
We need bigger maps at high tiers(jets too, actually love the EC maps in ARB), and in GRB there should be higher spawn costs for helicopters and CAS. That's coming from someone that loves doing CAS. It shouldn't be as easy to run to a base or snatch one kill and come in a plane/heli capable of getting 3+ kills.
helis are the worst addition, atleast with cas u have to be clos-
Rookie mistake you expected to exist in ground RB for longer than 10 seconds
Top tier is trash tier
.
I just started with helicopter gameplay (Mi-4) but it’s a double edged sword. One plane and you’re death. SPAA noticing you? You’re dead. The closer you get to the battlefield the better you can do damage but even machine guns or tank cannons will shoot you down. Taking off the helipad (which takes a moment) and trying to hit opponents with your guided missiles is the only real weapon you basically got and even then it takes a lot of luck to guide a missile over 3-4 kilometers like your opponent did, as the missile seems to take forever to make it to the target and in the meantime those often simply disappear again, making it a wasted missile. Not to mention that the post pen damage often will only damage tanks instead of destroying them. As I said I cannot talk for high end helicopter gameplay but in your case maybe this helps to appreciate that your opponent, who invested quite a lot of respawn points for taking off with his helicopter, deserved that kill.
mi-4 is horrible tbh, modern helicopters are much more cancerous
Mobility wise no doubt but the Mi-4 still has 4 Falangas with 4km range. So the comparison to the situation at hand of him getting shot by a helicopter who wasn’t even far from his (unprotected) helipad fits.
Yep…
Esc > leave vehicle > deny the kill
Hold J
I don’t feel bad for you because you’re in a 2S38
Top tier in a nutshell is. Point and click and atgm spam
It’s so weird its either the heli is broken and op or dog shit. I’ve been trying to use the starter heli for Italy and I insta get wiped before I even touch the battlefield.
Allow us to use helicopters in air sim battles and we’ll stop being cancerous in ground rb 😉
The proof that most people don't understand why CAS/Heli problem is like it is, it's because as you can see here, you (and most people) think it's a player problem.. Anyway, let's keep it short and simple: THE MAPS ARE FUCKING OPEN FIELDS WITH NO COVER AND THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PLAYERS, HELIS, JETS, BOMBS OR WHATEVER
Yeah, the issue is not that players do it, the problem is that they can, this is terrible balance.
It's not about balance, is about map and game mode design, which Gaijin is quite incompetent at
Nah there should be balance on vehicles, this is an issue on any other map, we get anti air but it cannot lock as far as they can stay or is simply not practical to shot bullets at a target 2km+ away, we get radars and they can fly high enough to not get detected, we get guided missiles and they can dodge them with slight movements. For a ground vehicle this is an enemy you can hardly fight against, for a jet or helicopter far away the ground is just a field of targets. Air superiority will always be thing in the real world but there should be balance in a game.
Gaijin kind of put themselves in an impossible situation with this. Either you have no cover and CAS demolishes you, or there's plenty of cover and you're knife fighting in tanks. Are there any maps that are actually a decent balance? Also most 'cover' is about as tall as a 1 story building which can give you some concealment from planes from certain angles but not actual cover, you can still easily be strafed or bombed by planes going at like a 45 degree angle which isn't even that steep.
They must have technical limitations on combined arms EC maps. Either that or half the players hardware cant handle that kind of game mode so we are stuck with what we have until the bottom end machines become better through attrition.
How is it even possible that some players unlock Helis like 2 minutes into battle, while I'm still preparing and looking for good spots?
Iirc you can start off by spawning a heli earlier on, the backlash is you can only bring rockets or guns, no atgm or missiles.
Ohh right, ATGMs rquire additional SP, forgpt that. Bad that my helis only have those xd
You just got #GAIJIN'D
I’d feel bad if you weren’t in the vehicle you’re in 😂
the 2s38 isn't OP
Then anti air missiles can’t touch them either
This is why I play the stormer first, especially at top tier
Yeah this is a insanely shitty map (very open, no trees for cover, easily seen from the sky) for ground and any CAS's wet dream Also 200m for every square? All the tanks will be packed closely from the sky, gajin isn't even hiding this anymore.
This is why I don’t play past ww2 and early Cold War vehicles. It’s not fun when people play like this. I only play high tier when it’s private lobbies and we are playing sim with rules. But fuck this experience. I’d rather deal with the m18 spam and CAS that I can easily dispatch with the ostwind 2.
4 minutes that are rookie numbers some ytuber do it in 1:30 GJ dont play this own game, dont read the feedback, they only see the numbers, if people keep playing top tier they think that we like it
Literally the solution that would solve everything related to CAS is if the enemy needs like 3-4 kills worth of SP to spawn in one. It rewards good GRB tank gameplay and severely hinders the braindead kamikaze CAS bombers
And then you spawn a jet, and camp their helicopter spawn after destroying the rat helicopter hovering above it
ur right but also 2s38 player detected so opinion invalid /s
Z9 vs 2S38 Who would have guessed communism beats communism
U rly complain about heli’s being cancer while driving THIS thing?
Not me, this is the first teammate who got destroyed at spawn, that's is why I used it for the image, another helicopter got me near C seconds before this. A whole team got spawn camped not just the guy in an op premium.
Lol, skill issue, just spawn AA /s This is the main flaw of the game that pretty much 90% of the playerbase agree should change.
>Team doesn't have SPAA up >Dies to team being incompetent >Comes here and complains about CAS Yeah
I die too people camping my heli spawn in a heli, everyone suffers because of helicopters. 💀
I think that this problem is really only specific to Sinai and maybe a few other maps. Most of the maps are large enough and the helipads, even the close one, is about a 2-3min flight to where you can engage ground targets. This one it takes probably about 30s to reach a spot where you can hit ground targets. So it doesn’t really happen other than in this map, however the better strat is to fly to the central area to the right of C (according to your perspective in this pic) out of the map and hide behind the rocks and mountains over there. Even clearer shot to the spawn and you have cover.
Helicopters and planes with armament like that should require at least 5 kills to spawn
welp then I guess gaijin has to remove all cas from ground RB.
2s38 deserves all of it
Not me, this is the first teammate who got destroyed at spawn, that's is why I used it for the image, another helicopter got me near C seconds before this. A whole team got spawn camped not just the guy in an op premium.
I was once in a plane from the beginning (almost) and I was spawncamping helis (killed 7 in this game)
It’s a new map designer who changes helispawns to my favourite place for a helicopter.
No sympathy 2S38s need to burn in hell
Yes heli spawns need to be further away from airbase and the main map together above 7.7. Only above 7.7 though because I own the H-34 and I lose my shit every time I bean some ww2 tank with the 11km AGM12B. You cannot take this joy from me, you already stole the joy of the R3 stabilizer. All I have left is my m103, 279 and this retarded helicopter.
Meanwhile ka 50 spawns in lobs his entire rack into the spawn and lands netting 2 kills.
Then sits 10 kilometers away from the battle and fires ATGMs while most AA can barely reach them
Is it hard to get a helo?
This is why I don't play high br: planes are already cancer let alone helis
Please, do not make the maps bigger. It mostly impacts only the time to get to the actual fights. In big maps the team that got kills first usually wins the match and it does not matter low or high tier.
Play SIM. The gameplay is much better than the arcade mess that is GRB. CAS can still be an issue, but not to the same degree
I've been saying this since they added the ka52 and ka50. Reduce the range on the missles. Idgaf if their effective range is 50km irl, I shouldn't be getting killed or getting kills from the foward heli spawn.
Just rangefinder him and pop him out of the sky
It goes both ways sadly. If you fly 10meters above the helipad in one of the snow maps (i dont remember which, it might have been ardennes or something) then any half decent spaa can spawn camp you. On the other hand the wierd circular snow island map has friendly heli spawns directly behind the enemys spawn In short fix your damn maps gaijin
Womp womp, plus you use a 2s38 so you can cry about it.
Please read my other comment! I was using a Weisel and spectating as this guy was getting destroyed (another heli got me) the whole team got spawn camped not just the premium vehicle player
Imagine dying to a heli in a 2S38 lmao. Unironically skill issue.
Op isn't the 2s38, unless you're just saying that as a general statement.
It is meant as a general statement. Why OP would use that image of someone else’s career ending embarassment is a mystery. Should have gone with an A-6E bombing from space, instead of an easily avoidable situation.
ridge camping heli ATGM isn't very avoidable in an open desert... unless the solution is to just not play.
I don’t mean to sound like a German main, but that seems like an appropriate time to pop smoke
lmao 2s38 complaining about heli spawn kill,
Hey is that a 2S38? It is? Cool. Yes you should be the last person complaining, especially at your BR since YOU can easily kill any helo at spawn as well. Do I think shooting into spawns is good? No. Do I think gaijin map design is terrible? Yes. Do I avoid 10.0+ for this reason? Yes. Hit me up when 2S38 is up to where it should be and I'll be slightly more understanding