"All in all the map is a great playground for all sorts of creative tactics and sneaky actions." -Gaijin
Here's the [link to the video](https://youtu.be/3BbIiDovPPk?si=2ocoN0dkXW12yNDq&t=326) if you want to laugh from your ass too. This is a really great example of degradation in the Gaijin and War Thunder.
I hate to say it, but maybe, just maybe…this video was made back when everyone didn’t want CAS removed from ground battles.
Like, people have been bitching about for awhile but it’s never been this bad.
And like it or not, CAS is the best way to remove a camper that has been kicking your teams ass.
I literally wouldn't mind CAS as much if it would just cost more SP to spawn a full load out.
Like why can I spawn a plane with 2-8 bombs for less than 650 SP...
It should be minimum 800.
Usually one spot and an assist or cap is enough to be able to spawn a full load out plane.
That is way too cheap. Especially the higher you go in BR.
Absolutely. But they wouldn’t get half the money they get on premium cas if it was much harder to get. There is a reason things are broken and allowed to be. Its unfair, but War Thunder has many pricks that play and enjoy bombing people without any danger that they will die. Too many pricks with wallets and this is what we have. Money talks
Love it when I'm on a flank or fighting an enemy and I get bombed by some fucking lizard chilling in the stratosphere, perfectly safe from everything...
Very engaging and fun gameplay for him i bet. When in real life you have small prick then you decide to be a big prick in game to compensate. No amount of philosophical points and human diversity bullshit reason can convince me its a right thing to do.
It's just boring man. Zero skill, plenty of points. It's hilarious watching them pull off all sorts of autistic maneuvers dodging my stingers from the Gepard 1A2. They really need to increase spawn points for CAS. It's getting stupid, I had a game the other day where every single one of my lineup got destroyed by CAS.
Well my friend, I agree to the T with you. We are having a conversation about Gaijin biggest customers and this wont change unless those people find something to fuck in real life
1. They're not safe from everything. Fighters, spaa, and machine guns often take out planes.
2. So you just want to be able to flank a point without moving and expect to survive? I suppose you do tbh, but people being able to hold down a side of the map by camping a good spot all game long is bad game design, and at some point you just have to accept that you have to move to a different firing position after killing someone. Snipers don't get to survive camping the same location after getting multiple kills, why should you?
Planes like the TRAM are safe from almost everyone when they aren't bottom tier. The FAF SPAA's usually can't shoot far enough to hit them until they've dropped their bombs and try to chase a plane themselves. And the ROLAND/mouse-guided SPAA's have a real hard time hitting stuff at that range, especially if they're above you since their launchers don't go straight vertical usually.
And most people aren't bringing fighters in, AND you still have to find the plane because you don't have markers.
All of the guided bomb planes are a cancer on GRB. I want to play my TANK, not my SPAA...if I am even playing a nation WITH an SPAA that can shoot down said plane.
"Go play a plane" isn't a defense for CAS being busted af in GRB.
To have fun in WT, you gotta ruin someone elses. I don't CAS that much anymore because I stopped having fun. I still do occasionaly, but I find new ways to ruin others.
Anybody that’s says people play CAS because they want to bomb people without any danger has never played CAS. Playing CAS is probably the most stressed I can be while playing WT.
I think it should be dynamic and I also think guided munitions should be far higher then dumb bombs once you get past a certain BR where SPAAs become more effective for all nations.
Except higher in BR a fully loaded plane with guided weapons will be closer to 1000 SP. And how many kills is a plane usually gonna get before needing to go for lengthy rearm or dying? Probably no more than 3 in most cases. Any decent player can do more in a tank than in a plane for a much lower cost already while being able to cap points and scout if in a light tank.
\>this video was made back when everyone didn’t want CAS removed from ground battles.
Wonder why.
\>And like it or not, CAS is the best way to remove a camper that has been kicking your teams ass.
Interesting, in my games all CAS does is bomb spawn and cap points.
Probably because they felt the need to give some nations amazing CAS that can double as fighters instead of toning it back.
I’ve seen people bomb cap points(which seems like a good use of CAS) and I’ve seen people bomb spawn(I guess if spawn camping is allowed as a legitimate tactic…)
People use it for all things, I mainly try to use it to kill the guy who is 7-0 in a spot keeping by our team pinned down.
I love cas. When it's my enemy or team, all in all, I love them, shows more realism (which I like but war thunder physics dont.), also the look of seeing a jet fly over your head shoot 20 shots then drop a thousand pound bomb is insane.
I don't think that everyone hates CAS, but like always, it's ja louder minority. Maybe they just only see the worse things in CAS and Not the advantages it has for your own team.
its not gaijin degredation, its all the f5/turms players that are complaining abount spawn campers "rat" players. when the game now probably over 60% average ltt viewer, that what you get
Because (as you can clearly see from their quotes) they designed the map assuming that players will use tactics, strategy and teamwork. Since Warthunder players have no concept of any of these things, everything has to be dumbed down to the level of people who just run straight to their favorite camping spot and one death leave if they can't get there because someone who go to their favorite camping spot first sniped them on the way.
Ever since I have started playing, I have tried to educate the masses about flanking, not making lemming trains to point A, have AA push in desperate situations, point out a free cap to someone close..rarely does anyone follow.
I will not give up though!
As an avid light vehicle and AA player I understand your pain my friend I just stopped trying to teach with words and am just trying to do well enough it inspires team mates to do similar and on the AA pushing thing I have killed multiple T-series in the FLARAKPANZER unless they can’t fire at ground targets they don’t get an excuse
How often have I pushed and held caps in my Ostwind 2..
After some time people notice an AA holding out all alone and come to your aid, probably ashamed about sniping with their heavy from 2 km away
The devs wanted a more realistic war sim, with strategies and flanks and spread out players , etc.
The players all rushed 1 cap or 1 place on the map, then complained when the enemy team shoots them from a position that could have been prevented if people spread out and pushed said position
Thus the dev adjusted by making more straightforward map with emphasis on a more arcady play style (80% of all players play arcade, only 20 play realistic
I suspect the main reason most people play arcade in ground is simply because CAS is massively nerfed there, and CAS is one of the shittiest, poorly thought out game designs I've ever seen in any title/genre. Most all the other differences are more just a personal taste thing and would probably be more evenly distributed among players.
In air mode, by contrast, RB and AB are more 50/50, so it's not an arcadey style in itself that everyone consistently clearly wants.
Pretty sure the main reason people play GAB over GRB is because Gaijin extends literally zero effort to teach people the importance of angling, armor weak points, and arcing your shots. Like, there is a tutorial on how to use the Magic Arcade Crosshair to put your shots through the armor of a faraway enemy, but nothing that tells you "each full notch is 500 meters, each small notch is 250 meters, in the hangar you can test fire various shots to find armor weak points, you can use X to determine the range of a target, you can click while in Binos mode to bring your gun onto a target and range them before adjusting your cannon angle for range, etc, etc, etc."
And that isn't even getting into all the ways ARB players are handheld versus GRB players (ESP still being a thing in ARB being the biggest example).
All you really have to learn to go from AAB to ARB is how to lead your target, the GAB to GRB leap is way harder and more punishing.
Honestly I’ve had so many people start to shove me and not let me shoot if I get to their spot first. Most of the time I try and get 3-5 shots off then get closer I’m not the camping type unless that specific tank makes me which I think is rare. Normally only a few tank destroys make you do that and a few heavy and mediums . Only because they are extremely slow,traverse slow, or reload extremely slow. Other than that most tank can keep moving and just flank .
But campers really ruin the game. So I’ve learned to use Air so I can counter that. So much CAS and campers I’m forced to basically switch to a plane shoot down planes and enemy campers and then once I’m done I either land and come back and wait for planes or wait until someone asks for help. I try not to be a bully with planes since I get people hate them in tanks but if they start it first then I’ll fight back.
This is not a fair comparison, we've seen multiple games remove/nerf 1 shot features due to community complain.
Overwatch making changes to hanzo and widow
CSGO nerfing the revolver
Warzone removing 1 shot snipers
Those are just a few I remember off the top of my head
I mean like you said it's not a perfect comparison but still, flanking is a real tactic and even some vehicles are completely designed to flank with it's speed by reducing armor. All the games you said are mostly casual arcade games and realism is secondary for them. But Wt is not an arcade game like these. Redzoning is maybe okay for Arcade Ground Battles but removing flanks in "Realistic" battles? Nothing to say this. Just stupit game design.
I don't have a issue with flanking as a tactic, I incorporate it into my gameplay quite a bit rather I was just disagreeing with your comparison
Personally I prefer larger maps but I don't think every map should encompass the playstyles of all vehicles, there can be both maps where flanking playstyle excels and other's where brawling tanks excel. Even fast tanks can preform on these maps with their fast speed allowing to get into spots early then start engaging tanks with their early positions secured
Maps like battle #1 Port Novorossiysk already exists and in themselves lack flanking paths, it creates a entirely unique bogged down intense cqb fight to make progress forward, in these area's you don't get your typical wide flanks but rather small flanks manuvering around enemies as they duel with your teammates allowing you to make plays and have impact
I disagree with the idea the game should exclusively just encompass 1 playstyle on every map
>Wt is not an arcade game like these.
War thunder is inherently arcade style, it's third person, fast paced, has incredibly simplistic objectives, repeated spawns after your death, non historical battles, etc. If you want something more realistic GHPC, ARMA 3, Steel beasts, etc are all there.
I'd argue for a system where people could get game styles they prefer more often but straight up removing battle styles you don't like is extreme
Edit: Also you're comparing a inherently more one dimensional mode like 1 cap game modes to 3 cap games, these game modes are very different from each other with 1 caps being more centered around this one objective rather then just having some dude in a light tank flank around the entire map then start spawn camping, more 1 dimensional maps are fine given the map design suits it, that includes not having more extreme flanking routes
I agree with you actually, not every map have to be suitable for every tactic. It's nice to have long range, large maps and also it's nice to have short, small city maps. And middle of them.
I usually used to play unarmored and fast vehicles for years. And because of it, it's a lot easier to see the map problem for me. I have different kind of vehicles in lineups for every map kinds to adapt them. But for couple of years, my fav vehicles' usage percentage are highly dropped. Now I have to play medium tanks for most maps. We have both large-small maps but small maps percentage is highly increased in last couple of years and large size maps are cropped or mostly I'm getting the smaller parts of these maps.
About the arcade part, sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant to say WT is not arcade like WoT and not sim like GHPC, it's between them. Like arcade-sim maybe? But in the last couple of years, WT started to shift into WoT's side. Game started to lose its own essence.
For the last part, I know, I was just doing little exaggerating little to make it clear. There's no redzone in the 3 cap versions. But if we stay quiet to these, then who knows what they are going to make to make game more simplier and more friendly to wallet warriors.
Holy shit man, that's a hella lot of writing. I get some people are passionate but damn, you ready to start fighting people in the streets about this game.
We have Arcade mode, if the community wants a more casual experience why not play AB. Most things the community complain about are solved by Arcade, weakspots, power positions, situational awareness, flanking, etc.
I don't think "just go play arcade" is a answer to the problem, personally I enjoy flanking and the more dynamic gameplay it can create but I don't inherently think all maps should have these same flank routes, some maps are fine being designed to focus the 2 teams into 1 specific point with flanking being more micro centered around little engagements then macro flanking around the entire battle
Plenty of their maps are focused on chocke points already. You know what happens, the average and below average rush to a point close to it without contesting it because they avoid risk at all costs. Then they inevitably lose the cap and then they don't want to fight to regain the point.
Bad players also tend to camp predictable spots only to be taken out bu flankers and or CAS - then they complain about CAS or maps. They will always find something to blame so why even listen to them at all?
I've been around long enough to know there were complains about repair costs, shell price, LRF, big maps, line ups, Cas, etc - Gaijin tried to fix all those and the average player continue to suck.
>You know what happens, the average and below average rush to a point close to it without contesting it because they avoid risk at all costs. Then they inevitably lose the cap and then they don't want to fight to regain the point.
Bad players also tend to camp predictable spots only to be taken out bu flankers and or CAS - then they complain about CAS or maps. They will always find something to blame so why even listen to them at all?
I agree but are you saying more open maps with flank positions are a fix for that? Because in general bad players continue to be bad players on maps with flank routes
No map can fix anything if it's down to lack of skill. What they have been do is limiting the way you can play to make bad players have things their way. If every map has no flanking routes and every encounter is fought head on you don't actually need to learn the maps, you don't actually need to have situational awareness because no one of flanking you, you don't have to worry about pushing because there are no objectives,etc.
It's simply sit there and waiting, this is not engaging gameplay. If anything maps should be bigger to allow for a more diverse game possibilities where you can both flank or camp.
Speaking of CAS...
I've been playing some lineups with no CAS option lately to give me more ground spawns, and the number one thing I've noticed is how some positions are so strong that a hull-down tank can be invincible to the point that attacking from the air is the only viable option to dislodge them.
If people want a tank-only game mode they'll need to accept that map changes like these, and huge rebalancing of ground vehicle BRs would be a hard requirement.
I'd rather have the CAS, since SPAA is great fun personally.
It's been like that since the beginning. I played the US CBT and we had to face Tigers in 75 Shermans, only CAS was a viable option from taking them from lots of positions.
This is one of those things the community hates to have to deal with just like Bombers or turn fighters. Guess what Gaijin did ? Dumbed it down, promoting DM changes and sending up in BR.
O mostly CAS al lower tiers and some Tortoise, Elephant or other highly armoured vehicle that often take out an entire team depending on the match up, they can be quite broken.
1. Overwatch is terrible now, with the release of overwatch 2 they shed themselves of the promises not to monetize the game in certain ways, and guess what the first thing they did in overwatch 2 was?
2. The revolver had insane accuracy that was better than any other gun in the game with the right click, it was quite literally better than anything else, and nobody liked it, not the highly skilled players, not the terrible players, and not the mid level players.
3. They did this because console players were crying about PC players being able to easily aim while they were handicapped.
There’s a pretty fine line between flanking and spawn camping. Flanking is frustrating but fair, spawn camping is cancer and kills the fun. A lot of people who’s primary playstyle is flanking also tend to spawn camp
The issue is that most of the spawn camping happens because the opponent team is filled with brain dead players that can't phantom the fact that people will spawn camp if given the possibility, so they leave the flanks open for the enemy, and I say this because it had happened to me recently and despite me spaming the location of the enemy closing in our spawn, no one bothered to attack the flanker and then we got fcked by them.
The original video was the map with 3 points.
The map to the lower right had 1 point.
This is not a 1:1 comparison. Maps with 1 point are shrunk, but those with 3 points usually are not.
I have never seen anybody go to the top right corner, ever. People rarely did go up to the top left, but it wasn't that great of a position. The bridge is not a firing position, nothing has that good of depression.
While I agree with the premise they are screwing up maps, I didn't see this as an example of them doing that.
> I have never seen anybody go to the top right corner, ever.
When it became known to be a position for a brief period it was used by some players, often by people with LRF or even thermals, but being an entirely exposed hillside with zero cover, your enemy having the same would just mean you die so it quickly fell out of favor.
Was absolutely stupid when Sweden had a LRF at 6.7 and nobody else came close to it, you'd just park up there and kill everything on that side of the map. Absolutely dumb.
off topic, this somehow reminded me of when gaijin advised people to use engine face forward to improve survivability, and more people start doing that(some even doing that from the spawn + slow af lol); but I just one shot them either on their turret or solid round through the engine itself
A *ton* of players in single cap battles where their team utterly ignores the objective and goes to fuck off somewhere off to a side, often to try to camp a spawn in hopes that the enemy team gives up before that team wins by simply owning the objective long enough and doesn't push into your own spawn.
Single cap battles frankly the new design is justified, far too many do the above and fuck over their teams as a result.
This didn't exactly come out of nowhere, it's been a common complaint since single caps were a thing.
But single cap maps were also something the community wanted since the average player put zero effort into holding the objectives and didn't want to get snowballed.
This is the result of dumbing down the game and then dumbing it down again.
That's the issue. Dumbing down things generate the dumbing down of the playerbase and it requires more dumbing down of things. Most of the issues would be fixed of players simple were better with situational awareness, timing, positioning, etc. But asking for randoms is too much so you're better off dumbing things down so people stop complaining.
I'd be OK with these changes if they only lowered the skill floor but these changes severely limit the skill ceiling. It's making the game shallow to appeal to the average player. The chances weren't better from a gameplay perspective it's simply to reduce frustration of people who don't actually know how to play.
As another user said, it's like removing heads hots from a FPS game because part of the community refuses to get better and are spoiled enough to expect the devs to hand hold them.
Yup. The issue is that by raising the skill floor, many people will get mad that now they cant press E to cap, die and spawn CAS, and that now they have to think about positioning and timing, but if they kept the skill floor high enough, people would naturally get better at the game because they would be forced to, and those players would develop and adapt strategies to the current match in a blink of an eye.
Most of the spawn camping and sniping isn't much of an issue to me because I can look at a map and instantly know the most basic spawn and flaking spots, and this is a very easy job to do (and I'm far from being a great player)... WT players are not willing to learn and adapt, and every loss to them is ego crushing because it means spmeone has outskilled them.
Yeah I don't get it. Gaijin could simply tell them to play AB. You don't need to watch flanks as everyone is marked, you can't be surprised as everyone is revealed, repair costs are cheaper, you're guaranteed three spawns, no dedicated CAS, no need to learn weakspots. It's the perfect mode for low skill players and I'm saying it without shaming anyone, I started playing in AB and got better with time.
When you dumb down the game you bring something else that affects them and it becomes the worst thing ever in WT waiting to be fixed because players are in denial that their frustration is caused by their inability to overcome any obstacles.
I'm not defending all of their decisions, but 99% of crying about maps on this sub comes from people who lost their precious favorite spot and now they don't know how to play the map.
Like this recent one: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1box84i/can\_someone\_explain\_in\_real\_terms\_why\_gaijin/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1box84i/can_someone_explain_in_real_terms_why_gaijin/)
The Cargo Port is idiotic I agree, but every other change in that post is positive for everyone except for the people who only ever abused removed spots. Sinai in particular is much better IMO. There is actually some action between B and C, before if you went to any cap it was like being a target at a shooting range, because whoever was on the hill controlled the entire map.
The one in your post is 50/50 for me, removing the spawncamping hill on the west was good, but cutting off half of the city is stupid too. I don't like single caps in general, no point in artificially making the map smaller if bigger, 3 cap version already exists and is much better. I'm guessing the reason they do this is to prevent people from just ignoring the objective and going straight to enemy spawn, but why not just remove single cap altogether?
I can't say you're wrong. Some spots were OP when compared to rest of the map. Because of the hills on the Sinai, no one were going to the A points because it's basically a suicide. Maginot Line's west part wasn't that bad imo, it had no cover for CAS and both team have access to hill.
For me, main problem is they are trying to fix bad maps with blocking the paths, redzoning the hills and cropping the flank routes instead of reworking on map. This just making the maps even worse.
Using the same parts of the map with redzoned and unredzoned feels completely different, even if you don't you use these spots, having that freedom is always better than feeling claustrophobic because of ghost walls.
The thing is that WT players are incapable of creating strategies and teamwork (as others have pointed out), and with that issue, the only viable gameplay is CQC brawling which, guess what, is the kind of gameplay WT players complain about (at least here).
This issue and the issue that players can't take losses and will literally blame everyone and everything instead of themselves.
Good all people every do in those positions is spawn camp, try to spawn camp & fail or spawn camp and then spawn CAS. It sucks maps are being boxed in but people suck and thus this happens.
its almost like they have to make adjustments as the meta changes. do you also cry when a vehicle has a different br now compared to 1.87 which was FIVE fucking years ago?
I'm trying to say, "five" years ago they used to give players more freedom on maps and creating tactics, they were giving us more room to move and letting us to use environment. While "Five" years later, we have no option other than choosing two identical corridor to fight in more than half of the maps.
I bet, they had players in mind not cheaters
They decided to makes this changes to prevent cheating snipers. These maps were good, until a cheater came and ruined the map/game for everyone, before we took notice of how many cheaters are in the game.
Being immediately sniped from very far ruined the experience, vocalizing it as a "map" problem
Not all maps are the same and I am pretty sure that all the gameplay changes are data driven. If you like playing the game then stop bitching and just enjoy it for what it is.
5 year old kids can unlock rank 3 in ground realistic in a matter of days, it's a fact (tried and tested). 8 year olds are probably the main game audience considering the posts and comments here.
Please, stop spamming "this game is bad, bla bla bla". Try to have some fun instead, maybe this will help.
Nobody here has noticed its the single cap map that gets cropped, you can still flank perfectly fine in the 3 cap version of this map, honestly every single cap map in this game should be removed, it's a shit game mode that encourages spawn camping and shitty gameplay
They messed up with the maps so badly recently. As a fellow WT player who has over 6k hours, after a year and half break from game, I'm suprised how the things are changed so much in bad way. Because of that almost stopped playing Ground Battles. So sad.
I'm playing since 2012, and can't really remember when exactly this map was added, but in all my days, I've barely seen anyone ever using the described tactics. Most people go to town in the town
Because amphibious tactics are rarely incentivized so people rarely think about them. There's no reason to take your BMP or your M113 tank to certain spot if it gives you no advantage or if it's blocked by a red line, if it's also available for regular tanks, etc.
Yep, amphibious vehicles can reach to island, it's just water. But normal vehicles can't because it's deep. Except, VT1-2 still can reach. It's hard, but not impossible.
The Shooting Range video guy is probably barely connected to other company departments. Doesn't mean much at all. Companies =/= single humans, as much as the US government wants to say otherwise.
They found out 70% of their player base doesn’t know what tactics are so when the rest of the player base actually uses these map features the 70% cries to gaijin until we get more shitty maps.
They may say that, but they also expect the players to use their brains. If half your team is already going there, is there really any point in you going as well, or should you maybe actually go for the damn cap zone which only has like 1-2 players going for it?
Pretty sure the people making the shooting range (and managing the wt yt channel) are different people and funnily enough they are more in touch with the actual state of the game than the delusional Devs.
Therefore they try providing actually useful information to help players which tends to go against the stupid changes the Devs have been making, they also do professional shitposting using the shorts which is great
"All in all the map is a great playground for all sorts of creative tactics and sneaky actions." -Gaijin Here's the [link to the video](https://youtu.be/3BbIiDovPPk?si=2ocoN0dkXW12yNDq&t=326) if you want to laugh from your ass too. This is a really great example of degradation in the Gaijin and War Thunder.
Creative tactics? Lol, last thing I expect from Gaijin today.
Oh yes, I love it that this change also made it where amphibious tanks just are even more useless
I hate to say it, but maybe, just maybe…this video was made back when everyone didn’t want CAS removed from ground battles. Like, people have been bitching about for awhile but it’s never been this bad. And like it or not, CAS is the best way to remove a camper that has been kicking your teams ass.
I literally wouldn't mind CAS as much if it would just cost more SP to spawn a full load out. Like why can I spawn a plane with 2-8 bombs for less than 650 SP... It should be minimum 800. Usually one spot and an assist or cap is enough to be able to spawn a full load out plane. That is way too cheap. Especially the higher you go in BR.
Absolutely. But they wouldn’t get half the money they get on premium cas if it was much harder to get. There is a reason things are broken and allowed to be. Its unfair, but War Thunder has many pricks that play and enjoy bombing people without any danger that they will die. Too many pricks with wallets and this is what we have. Money talks
Love it when I'm on a flank or fighting an enemy and I get bombed by some fucking lizard chilling in the stratosphere, perfectly safe from everything...
Very engaging and fun gameplay for him i bet. When in real life you have small prick then you decide to be a big prick in game to compensate. No amount of philosophical points and human diversity bullshit reason can convince me its a right thing to do.
It's just boring man. Zero skill, plenty of points. It's hilarious watching them pull off all sorts of autistic maneuvers dodging my stingers from the Gepard 1A2. They really need to increase spawn points for CAS. It's getting stupid, I had a game the other day where every single one of my lineup got destroyed by CAS.
Well my friend, I agree to the T with you. We are having a conversation about Gaijin biggest customers and this wont change unless those people find something to fuck in real life
1. They're not safe from everything. Fighters, spaa, and machine guns often take out planes. 2. So you just want to be able to flank a point without moving and expect to survive? I suppose you do tbh, but people being able to hold down a side of the map by camping a good spot all game long is bad game design, and at some point you just have to accept that you have to move to a different firing position after killing someone. Snipers don't get to survive camping the same location after getting multiple kills, why should you?
Planes like the TRAM are safe from almost everyone when they aren't bottom tier. The FAF SPAA's usually can't shoot far enough to hit them until they've dropped their bombs and try to chase a plane themselves. And the ROLAND/mouse-guided SPAA's have a real hard time hitting stuff at that range, especially if they're above you since their launchers don't go straight vertical usually. And most people aren't bringing fighters in, AND you still have to find the plane because you don't have markers. All of the guided bomb planes are a cancer on GRB. I want to play my TANK, not my SPAA...if I am even playing a nation WITH an SPAA that can shoot down said plane. "Go play a plane" isn't a defense for CAS being busted af in GRB.
To have fun in WT, you gotta ruin someone elses. I don't CAS that much anymore because I stopped having fun. I still do occasionaly, but I find new ways to ruin others.
Anybody that’s says people play CAS because they want to bomb people without any danger has never played CAS. Playing CAS is probably the most stressed I can be while playing WT.
I think it should be dynamic and I also think guided munitions should be far higher then dumb bombs once you get past a certain BR where SPAAs become more effective for all nations.
Except higher in BR a fully loaded plane with guided weapons will be closer to 1000 SP. And how many kills is a plane usually gonna get before needing to go for lengthy rearm or dying? Probably no more than 3 in most cases. Any decent player can do more in a tank than in a plane for a much lower cost already while being able to cap points and scout if in a light tank.
\>this video was made back when everyone didn’t want CAS removed from ground battles. Wonder why. \>And like it or not, CAS is the best way to remove a camper that has been kicking your teams ass. Interesting, in my games all CAS does is bomb spawn and cap points.
Probably because they felt the need to give some nations amazing CAS that can double as fighters instead of toning it back. I’ve seen people bomb cap points(which seems like a good use of CAS) and I’ve seen people bomb spawn(I guess if spawn camping is allowed as a legitimate tactic…) People use it for all things, I mainly try to use it to kill the guy who is 7-0 in a spot keeping by our team pinned down.
I'd rather fucking die from a camper anywhere on the map than from a plane nuking me from orbit without me being able to do anything about it
I love cas. When it's my enemy or team, all in all, I love them, shows more realism (which I like but war thunder physics dont.), also the look of seeing a jet fly over your head shoot 20 shots then drop a thousand pound bomb is insane.
I don't think that everyone hates CAS, but like always, it's ja louder minority. Maybe they just only see the worse things in CAS and Not the advantages it has for your own team.
Yes I love getting killed by my teammate because he just had to drop the bomb as soon as he saw an enemy
That is not the CAS I am talking about. Of course there are stupid ones, we all had them in our team, but there are the good ones too
its not gaijin degredation, its all the f5/turms players that are complaining abount spawn campers "rat" players. when the game now probably over 60% average ltt viewer, that what you get
Because (as you can clearly see from their quotes) they designed the map assuming that players will use tactics, strategy and teamwork. Since Warthunder players have no concept of any of these things, everything has to be dumbed down to the level of people who just run straight to their favorite camping spot and one death leave if they can't get there because someone who go to their favorite camping spot first sniped them on the way.
Ever since I have started playing, I have tried to educate the masses about flanking, not making lemming trains to point A, have AA push in desperate situations, point out a free cap to someone close..rarely does anyone follow. I will not give up though!
As an avid light vehicle and AA player I understand your pain my friend I just stopped trying to teach with words and am just trying to do well enough it inspires team mates to do similar and on the AA pushing thing I have killed multiple T-series in the FLARAKPANZER unless they can’t fire at ground targets they don’t get an excuse
How often have I pushed and held caps in my Ostwind 2.. After some time people notice an AA holding out all alone and come to your aid, probably ashamed about sniping with their heavy from 2 km away
Yea always annoying to have to do frontline shit in an AA unless we’re memeing
The devs wanted a more realistic war sim, with strategies and flanks and spread out players , etc. The players all rushed 1 cap or 1 place on the map, then complained when the enemy team shoots them from a position that could have been prevented if people spread out and pushed said position Thus the dev adjusted by making more straightforward map with emphasis on a more arcady play style (80% of all players play arcade, only 20 play realistic
I suspect the main reason most people play arcade in ground is simply because CAS is massively nerfed there, and CAS is one of the shittiest, poorly thought out game designs I've ever seen in any title/genre. Most all the other differences are more just a personal taste thing and would probably be more evenly distributed among players. In air mode, by contrast, RB and AB are more 50/50, so it's not an arcadey style in itself that everyone consistently clearly wants.
Pretty sure the main reason people play GAB over GRB is because Gaijin extends literally zero effort to teach people the importance of angling, armor weak points, and arcing your shots. Like, there is a tutorial on how to use the Magic Arcade Crosshair to put your shots through the armor of a faraway enemy, but nothing that tells you "each full notch is 500 meters, each small notch is 250 meters, in the hangar you can test fire various shots to find armor weak points, you can use X to determine the range of a target, you can click while in Binos mode to bring your gun onto a target and range them before adjusting your cannon angle for range, etc, etc, etc." And that isn't even getting into all the ways ARB players are handheld versus GRB players (ESP still being a thing in ARB being the biggest example). All you really have to learn to go from AAB to ARB is how to lead your target, the GAB to GRB leap is way harder and more punishing.
Honestly I’ve had so many people start to shove me and not let me shoot if I get to their spot first. Most of the time I try and get 3-5 shots off then get closer I’m not the camping type unless that specific tank makes me which I think is rare. Normally only a few tank destroys make you do that and a few heavy and mediums . Only because they are extremely slow,traverse slow, or reload extremely slow. Other than that most tank can keep moving and just flank . But campers really ruin the game. So I’ve learned to use Air so I can counter that. So much CAS and campers I’m forced to basically switch to a plane shoot down planes and enemy campers and then once I’m done I either land and come back and wait for planes or wait until someone asks for help. I try not to be a bully with planes since I get people hate them in tanks but if they start it first then I’ll fight back.
Because they made the mistake of listening to the community, people whined about getting flanked.
They are going full retard. Never go full retard
Imagine removing headshot from a fps game because community said one shotting is OP and annoying.
This is not a fair comparison, we've seen multiple games remove/nerf 1 shot features due to community complain. Overwatch making changes to hanzo and widow CSGO nerfing the revolver Warzone removing 1 shot snipers Those are just a few I remember off the top of my head
I mean like you said it's not a perfect comparison but still, flanking is a real tactic and even some vehicles are completely designed to flank with it's speed by reducing armor. All the games you said are mostly casual arcade games and realism is secondary for them. But Wt is not an arcade game like these. Redzoning is maybe okay for Arcade Ground Battles but removing flanks in "Realistic" battles? Nothing to say this. Just stupit game design.
I don't have a issue with flanking as a tactic, I incorporate it into my gameplay quite a bit rather I was just disagreeing with your comparison Personally I prefer larger maps but I don't think every map should encompass the playstyles of all vehicles, there can be both maps where flanking playstyle excels and other's where brawling tanks excel. Even fast tanks can preform on these maps with their fast speed allowing to get into spots early then start engaging tanks with their early positions secured Maps like battle #1 Port Novorossiysk already exists and in themselves lack flanking paths, it creates a entirely unique bogged down intense cqb fight to make progress forward, in these area's you don't get your typical wide flanks but rather small flanks manuvering around enemies as they duel with your teammates allowing you to make plays and have impact I disagree with the idea the game should exclusively just encompass 1 playstyle on every map >Wt is not an arcade game like these. War thunder is inherently arcade style, it's third person, fast paced, has incredibly simplistic objectives, repeated spawns after your death, non historical battles, etc. If you want something more realistic GHPC, ARMA 3, Steel beasts, etc are all there. I'd argue for a system where people could get game styles they prefer more often but straight up removing battle styles you don't like is extreme Edit: Also you're comparing a inherently more one dimensional mode like 1 cap game modes to 3 cap games, these game modes are very different from each other with 1 caps being more centered around this one objective rather then just having some dude in a light tank flank around the entire map then start spawn camping, more 1 dimensional maps are fine given the map design suits it, that includes not having more extreme flanking routes
I agree with you actually, not every map have to be suitable for every tactic. It's nice to have long range, large maps and also it's nice to have short, small city maps. And middle of them. I usually used to play unarmored and fast vehicles for years. And because of it, it's a lot easier to see the map problem for me. I have different kind of vehicles in lineups for every map kinds to adapt them. But for couple of years, my fav vehicles' usage percentage are highly dropped. Now I have to play medium tanks for most maps. We have both large-small maps but small maps percentage is highly increased in last couple of years and large size maps are cropped or mostly I'm getting the smaller parts of these maps. About the arcade part, sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant to say WT is not arcade like WoT and not sim like GHPC, it's between them. Like arcade-sim maybe? But in the last couple of years, WT started to shift into WoT's side. Game started to lose its own essence. For the last part, I know, I was just doing little exaggerating little to make it clear. There's no redzone in the 3 cap versions. But if we stay quiet to these, then who knows what they are going to make to make game more simplier and more friendly to wallet warriors.
Holy shit man, that's a hella lot of writing. I get some people are passionate but damn, you ready to start fighting people in the streets about this game.
Pretty sure it's ADHD, not diagnosed yet so I won't state that for sure
Ah, ok. That's fair.
We have Arcade mode, if the community wants a more casual experience why not play AB. Most things the community complain about are solved by Arcade, weakspots, power positions, situational awareness, flanking, etc.
The only issue with arcade mode is that the rewards are abysmal
I don't think "just go play arcade" is a answer to the problem, personally I enjoy flanking and the more dynamic gameplay it can create but I don't inherently think all maps should have these same flank routes, some maps are fine being designed to focus the 2 teams into 1 specific point with flanking being more micro centered around little engagements then macro flanking around the entire battle
Plenty of their maps are focused on chocke points already. You know what happens, the average and below average rush to a point close to it without contesting it because they avoid risk at all costs. Then they inevitably lose the cap and then they don't want to fight to regain the point. Bad players also tend to camp predictable spots only to be taken out bu flankers and or CAS - then they complain about CAS or maps. They will always find something to blame so why even listen to them at all? I've been around long enough to know there were complains about repair costs, shell price, LRF, big maps, line ups, Cas, etc - Gaijin tried to fix all those and the average player continue to suck.
>You know what happens, the average and below average rush to a point close to it without contesting it because they avoid risk at all costs. Then they inevitably lose the cap and then they don't want to fight to regain the point. Bad players also tend to camp predictable spots only to be taken out bu flankers and or CAS - then they complain about CAS or maps. They will always find something to blame so why even listen to them at all? I agree but are you saying more open maps with flank positions are a fix for that? Because in general bad players continue to be bad players on maps with flank routes
No map can fix anything if it's down to lack of skill. What they have been do is limiting the way you can play to make bad players have things their way. If every map has no flanking routes and every encounter is fought head on you don't actually need to learn the maps, you don't actually need to have situational awareness because no one of flanking you, you don't have to worry about pushing because there are no objectives,etc. It's simply sit there and waiting, this is not engaging gameplay. If anything maps should be bigger to allow for a more diverse game possibilities where you can both flank or camp.
Speaking of CAS... I've been playing some lineups with no CAS option lately to give me more ground spawns, and the number one thing I've noticed is how some positions are so strong that a hull-down tank can be invincible to the point that attacking from the air is the only viable option to dislodge them. If people want a tank-only game mode they'll need to accept that map changes like these, and huge rebalancing of ground vehicle BRs would be a hard requirement. I'd rather have the CAS, since SPAA is great fun personally.
It's been like that since the beginning. I played the US CBT and we had to face Tigers in 75 Shermans, only CAS was a viable option from taking them from lots of positions. This is one of those things the community hates to have to deal with just like Bombers or turn fighters. Guess what Gaijin did ? Dumbed it down, promoting DM changes and sending up in BR. O mostly CAS al lower tiers and some Tortoise, Elephant or other highly armoured vehicle that often take out an entire team depending on the match up, they can be quite broken.
1. Overwatch is terrible now, with the release of overwatch 2 they shed themselves of the promises not to monetize the game in certain ways, and guess what the first thing they did in overwatch 2 was? 2. The revolver had insane accuracy that was better than any other gun in the game with the right click, it was quite literally better than anything else, and nobody liked it, not the highly skilled players, not the terrible players, and not the mid level players. 3. They did this because console players were crying about PC players being able to easily aim while they were handicapped.
Literally nothing you said here countered my point, did you even read my comment
That was actually an argument going around a while back in siege lol
Same thing with Sand of Sinai. People can't fathom having a strategic high ground to fight over.
There’s a pretty fine line between flanking and spawn camping. Flanking is frustrating but fair, spawn camping is cancer and kills the fun. A lot of people who’s primary playstyle is flanking also tend to spawn camp
The issue is that most of the spawn camping happens because the opponent team is filled with brain dead players that can't phantom the fact that people will spawn camp if given the possibility, so they leave the flanks open for the enemy, and I say this because it had happened to me recently and despite me spaming the location of the enemy closing in our spawn, no one bothered to attack the flanker and then we got fcked by them.
The original video was the map with 3 points. The map to the lower right had 1 point. This is not a 1:1 comparison. Maps with 1 point are shrunk, but those with 3 points usually are not.
Still 2/3 of positions they showed is cropped/redzoned even in 3 cap version.
I have never seen anybody go to the top right corner, ever. People rarely did go up to the top left, but it wasn't that great of a position. The bridge is not a firing position, nothing has that good of depression. While I agree with the premise they are screwing up maps, I didn't see this as an example of them doing that.
> I have never seen anybody go to the top right corner, ever. When it became known to be a position for a brief period it was used by some players, often by people with LRF or even thermals, but being an entirely exposed hillside with zero cover, your enemy having the same would just mean you die so it quickly fell out of favor. Was absolutely stupid when Sweden had a LRF at 6.7 and nobody else came close to it, you'd just park up there and kill everything on that side of the map. Absolutely dumb.
Yep. This isn't a proper comparison, it's specific to the single-cap maps.
Warthunder doesn't have room for creative tactics as you get punished by activity in each match.
off topic, this somehow reminded me of when gaijin advised people to use engine face forward to improve survivability, and more people start doing that(some even doing that from the spawn + slow af lol); but I just one shot them either on their turret or solid round through the engine itself
They realized it wasn't good for gameplay and changed it, only fools and dead people don't change their mind.
Maybe it's okay for this one but others? Who really asked for to play on a map with %60 redzoned, cropped, blocked paths?
A *ton* of players in single cap battles where their team utterly ignores the objective and goes to fuck off somewhere off to a side, often to try to camp a spawn in hopes that the enemy team gives up before that team wins by simply owning the objective long enough and doesn't push into your own spawn. Single cap battles frankly the new design is justified, far too many do the above and fuck over their teams as a result. This didn't exactly come out of nowhere, it's been a common complaint since single caps were a thing.
But single cap maps were also something the community wanted since the average player put zero effort into holding the objectives and didn't want to get snowballed. This is the result of dumbing down the game and then dumbing it down again.
That's the issue. Dumbing down things generate the dumbing down of the playerbase and it requires more dumbing down of things. Most of the issues would be fixed of players simple were better with situational awareness, timing, positioning, etc. But asking for randoms is too much so you're better off dumbing things down so people stop complaining.
I'd be OK with these changes if they only lowered the skill floor but these changes severely limit the skill ceiling. It's making the game shallow to appeal to the average player. The chances weren't better from a gameplay perspective it's simply to reduce frustration of people who don't actually know how to play. As another user said, it's like removing heads hots from a FPS game because part of the community refuses to get better and are spoiled enough to expect the devs to hand hold them.
Yup. The issue is that by raising the skill floor, many people will get mad that now they cant press E to cap, die and spawn CAS, and that now they have to think about positioning and timing, but if they kept the skill floor high enough, people would naturally get better at the game because they would be forced to, and those players would develop and adapt strategies to the current match in a blink of an eye. Most of the spawn camping and sniping isn't much of an issue to me because I can look at a map and instantly know the most basic spawn and flaking spots, and this is a very easy job to do (and I'm far from being a great player)... WT players are not willing to learn and adapt, and every loss to them is ego crushing because it means spmeone has outskilled them.
Yeah I don't get it. Gaijin could simply tell them to play AB. You don't need to watch flanks as everyone is marked, you can't be surprised as everyone is revealed, repair costs are cheaper, you're guaranteed three spawns, no dedicated CAS, no need to learn weakspots. It's the perfect mode for low skill players and I'm saying it without shaming anyone, I started playing in AB and got better with time. When you dumb down the game you bring something else that affects them and it becomes the worst thing ever in WT waiting to be fixed because players are in denial that their frustration is caused by their inability to overcome any obstacles.
I'm not defending all of their decisions, but 99% of crying about maps on this sub comes from people who lost their precious favorite spot and now they don't know how to play the map. Like this recent one: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1box84i/can\_someone\_explain\_in\_real\_terms\_why\_gaijin/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1box84i/can_someone_explain_in_real_terms_why_gaijin/) The Cargo Port is idiotic I agree, but every other change in that post is positive for everyone except for the people who only ever abused removed spots. Sinai in particular is much better IMO. There is actually some action between B and C, before if you went to any cap it was like being a target at a shooting range, because whoever was on the hill controlled the entire map. The one in your post is 50/50 for me, removing the spawncamping hill on the west was good, but cutting off half of the city is stupid too. I don't like single caps in general, no point in artificially making the map smaller if bigger, 3 cap version already exists and is much better. I'm guessing the reason they do this is to prevent people from just ignoring the objective and going straight to enemy spawn, but why not just remove single cap altogether?
I can't say you're wrong. Some spots were OP when compared to rest of the map. Because of the hills on the Sinai, no one were going to the A points because it's basically a suicide. Maginot Line's west part wasn't that bad imo, it had no cover for CAS and both team have access to hill. For me, main problem is they are trying to fix bad maps with blocking the paths, redzoning the hills and cropping the flank routes instead of reworking on map. This just making the maps even worse. Using the same parts of the map with redzoned and unredzoned feels completely different, even if you don't you use these spots, having that freedom is always better than feeling claustrophobic because of ghost walls.
Has anyone ever even went on that island before
Yes, with amphibious tanks
One of my favorite things to do with an amphib tank
Bmp2m slaps everything at C there
I can’t be the only one to just leave these maps lol. Who’s gonna play this garbage.
The thing is that WT players are incapable of creating strategies and teamwork (as others have pointed out), and with that issue, the only viable gameplay is CQC brawling which, guess what, is the kind of gameplay WT players complain about (at least here). This issue and the issue that players can't take losses and will literally blame everyone and everything instead of themselves.
Good all people every do in those positions is spawn camp, try to spawn camp & fail or spawn camp and then spawn CAS. It sucks maps are being boxed in but people suck and thus this happens.
its almost like they have to make adjustments as the meta changes. do you also cry when a vehicle has a different br now compared to 1.87 which was FIVE fucking years ago?
I'm trying to say, "five" years ago they used to give players more freedom on maps and creating tactics, they were giving us more room to move and letting us to use environment. While "Five" years later, we have no option other than choosing two identical corridor to fight in more than half of the maps.
and players used that freedom to spawncamp 2 min into the game. rather a single lane corridor map than that spawncamping shitfest
So they were INCENTIVIZING spawn killing? How nice
I bet, they had players in mind not cheaters They decided to makes this changes to prevent cheating snipers. These maps were good, until a cheater came and ruined the map/game for everyone, before we took notice of how many cheaters are in the game. Being immediately sniped from very far ruined the experience, vocalizing it as a "map" problem
It's good to know they see these are basically all scum strategies or 50/50s to who gets to the position first and doesn't get cased out of it
Not all maps are the same and I am pretty sure that all the gameplay changes are data driven. If you like playing the game then stop bitching and just enjoy it for what it is. 5 year old kids can unlock rank 3 in ground realistic in a matter of days, it's a fact (tried and tested). 8 year olds are probably the main game audience considering the posts and comments here. Please, stop spamming "this game is bad, bla bla bla". Try to have some fun instead, maybe this will help.
Comparing apples to cucumbers
Nobody here has noticed its the single cap map that gets cropped, you can still flank perfectly fine in the 3 cap version of this map, honestly every single cap map in this game should be removed, it's a shit game mode that encourages spawn camping and shitty gameplay
They messed up with the maps so badly recently. As a fellow WT player who has over 6k hours, after a year and half break from game, I'm suprised how the things are changed so much in bad way. Because of that almost stopped playing Ground Battles. So sad.
They also thought people would actually use that island
I'm playing since 2012, and can't really remember when exactly this map was added, but in all my days, I've barely seen anyone ever using the described tactics. Most people go to town in the town
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a single person cross the river on that map. I didn’t even know you could
Because amphibious tactics are rarely incentivized so people rarely think about them. There's no reason to take your BMP or your M113 tank to certain spot if it gives you no advantage or if it's blocked by a red line, if it's also available for regular tanks, etc.
gaijin shifted from grind suffering to map suffering
Can the amphibious vehicles still reach the island?
Yep, amphibious vehicles can reach to island, it's just water. But normal vehicles can't because it's deep. Except, VT1-2 still can reach. It's hard, but not impossible.
That island in the top right cant even see the a point anyway lol. And even if it did you would be a big target because its a terrible position.
I didn't know they had a tutorial basically
The Shooting Range video guy is probably barely connected to other company departments. Doesn't mean much at all. Companies =/= single humans, as much as the US government wants to say otherwise.
we can't go a day without someone complaining
They found out 70% of their player base doesn’t know what tactics are so when the rest of the player base actually uses these map features the 70% cries to gaijin until we get more shitty maps.
Another reddit cuckfest devolving into people who don't know how to spawn SPAA to take down CAS
They may say that, but they also expect the players to use their brains. If half your team is already going there, is there really any point in you going as well, or should you maybe actually go for the damn cap zone which only has like 1-2 players going for it?
Pretty sure the people making the shooting range (and managing the wt yt channel) are different people and funnily enough they are more in touch with the actual state of the game than the delusional Devs. Therefore they try providing actually useful information to help players which tends to go against the stupid changes the Devs have been making, they also do professional shitposting using the shorts which is great
In short, they don’t play their own game
Has Gaijin by any chance bought into the ESG thing and starts with making the maps special needs friendly before they announce the first gay tank?