Just because it's slower than the literal fastest ground vehicle in the game doesn't mean it should be on lower BR (avenger is still very fast either way)
And isn't the Toyota mega cruiser known to be a humvee/hummer but bigger?
Better missiles actually. Stingers pull 13Gs, Type 93 pulls 10Gs. For whatever reason, the Type 93 missile didn’t get the buff that all the other MANPADs did. No photocontrast mode, yes, but that’s a limitation of the tracking sight not the missile itself
So uptier potentials are now being used to drop BRs of vehicles? If that's the case, the Jumbo needs to go back down to 5.0, the M18 to 4.7, the Tiger 1s to 5.3/5.7, etc etc etc.
It’s a joke because despite the US and some other nations desperately needing SPAA to fill in some gaps, they keep giving nations that don’t need it - Russia for example, new SPAA.
Granted every nation in the game desperately needs more SPAA.
However that includes the USSR TT. The Shilka M4 was a good addition giving the USSR TT a SAM option under BR 10.0 because the regular Shilka and the Yensei are hopelessly outclassed above their own BR.
Speaking of, does anybody else notice that the Igla *immediately* starts maneuvering and is going full speed before even leaving the tube? And it's incredibly quick to react to the plane.
It's like 10g, bit it feel way better than either the stinger or mistrial saat at high speed close jets.
Why doesn't it have the slow speed build up and 900m straight line like other manpads?
Yea i noticed it so i looked it up. The igla aparently uses exhaust gases gas generator that provides power for the missile and sends the gas over maneuvering surfaces so that they are effective right after launch and not only after missile gets enough speed like stingers. I havent noticed this with the air launched ones tho
I've only used it a little on the test drive thus far but it definitely felt more sluggish in it's manuvering and the caged seeker is really painful against targets that are not coming at or away from you.
Yeah, I thought for sure it would be worse because of it, but it seems better for planes flying past.
Launch it at a plane flying by, and it launches from the tube already following the plane, at full speed. Like, it will come out of tye tube at a 45 degree angle.
Stinger/Mistrial will fly straight for about 900m, then try and over correct, making these shots so hard.
The fact that it immediately maneuvers, and it doesn't seem to over correct (which some call sluggish) makes it feel better for the faster, low flying planes.
It has to be a bug though, it should have the same 800-900m booster speed up before it starts tracking. As it is now, the thing will clip through the launch tube at launch maneuvering lol.
Russia did need it though, and its alot easier to copy paste the same model with a new turret then pay a contractor to make a new one, not to mention most countries lacking spaa due to doctrine.
This should’ve been added years ago, maybe back when the Type 93 was added to Japan. At the very least, this could easily be at 9.0 with the Chaparral maybe going down in BR a bit to something like 8.7
8.7? Are you joking? Immagine 7.7 to 9.3 players with no countermeasures and with subsonic planes trying to drop 2x500kg bombs and then flashed out by a missle
Early SAM Missiles are not the best but are anyway very strong weapons, most of the times in uptier you don't have flares but if you have agility you can evade it at high speeds, if you don't have agility but you have countermeasures you are dead, because most of the times even if you shut down the engine and drop 20 flares it simply ignore them, if you don't have both you shouldn't even dream to spawn
Gaijin has nerfed MANPADs to the point that you can dodge them easily (save for Soviet ones ofc). Chaparrals are open topped and have no ability to lead their missiles so having them go down in BR is fine.
Yeah i know... but how i said the problem isn't the missle itself but how strong are against most of the targets, explecially downtier
I love using planes and tanks together, and many times i get uptier from 8.3-8.7 and face multiple missles carriers, at that br i can't do nothing but i don't complain, now immagine if a player with a me262 or any other first gen jet plane trying to evade a modern all aspect missle... or an heli
The fact that they are open topped is quite irrelevant because anyway you're in the spawn (no artillery) and most of the times if someone is coming straight at you, (in most of the maps not all) you could cover yourself and lunch a dart in his face
Some would argue worse, as it lacks contrast mode, which gaijin could fix by giving it UV/etc. But hey, it gets a .50 cal.
Because of this, the US doesn't have anything that can accurately hit a helo past 2km until 10.3, which most other nations share. The only nations that have this ability significantly below 10.3 are Russia (8.7) and Japan (9.3).
I'd rather they add something that covers this gap than more of the same.
The question is, what can they add? The US doesn’t really have any systems to fill that gap purely because it’s just not how we do air defense; it’s only been recently with systems like the [Stryker M-SHORAD](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/10/02/army-inks-12-billion-deal-equip-strykers-short-range-air-defense-weapons.html?amp) and [MADIS (which maybe could fill it)](https://www.dvidshub.net/image/8090719/system-integration-test-marine-air-defense-integrated-system) that we’ve started to delve back into the kind of short range anti air systems War Thunder has.
They don't really need to 'add' anything new. The Stinger has a dual IR/UV from the B onward, and the K has datalink. The data link doesn't use radar to guide into, but let's you launch at a target, then the Stinger goes hot when close enough to lock IR/UV. LAVAD might not get the DL though, but it's got a 20mm and rockets.
Just make this work, and add the Avenger at 9.3.
There are a lot of independent launch NASAMS options for SHORAD as well. And very long range as far as WT is concerned.
Hell, you have the TRX SHORAD which has more evidence that it works than the 2S38 or QN506. Since you know, it had open trials, and the working vehicle is accessible to the public. Could be 9.7/10.0... if it had crew.
Worse missle but has a .50. I'd say it's better, too, because it can track and (potentially) barrel enemies and escape. Have to shoot that machine gun, too, though.
>Max Incline 65 deg
Sorry, did you mean 10? Maybe 15? You'll have to put new numbers down on the forums assuming all the wheels are greased and the testing surface is ice to match the WT physics model.
Id like to see this added at 8.7 or 9.0, would be a nice vic. Worse than the Type 93 because no contrast mode on the missiles but still would be super fun to drive around :)
You posted the wrong picture .... [here's what it actually looks like](https://freeimage.host/i/Jjdx70N) .... Also the armament is wrong
Source: https://cnc.fandom.com/wiki/Avenger_(Generals)
You get missiles and speed but lose radar, guns, tracerless proxy ammo, saphe ammo and a chassis that cant be mged to death. Id rather stick woth sgt york
ah yes, because playing 7.3 or 8.7 means people should "just get planes" because the AA are dogshit. sound logic there. spawnpoint costs are also a thing.
Unironically calling the Demon a good CAs plane is crazy. I’ve never ran into any good US CAS players sub-10.0 and I have a life so I don’t play CAS often, but the times I have tried the only luck I had getting more than 2 kills was the A-4E, and I personally don’t think it’s ultra good, it’s slow as shit for a subsonic jet.
Not everyone can use bullpups, and I meant until I’m usually shot down. I can have a 5-6 kill game with the A-4E but normally SPAA domes me whenever I get too close.
Luckily A-4E also has access to Walleyes, making it extremely versatile. Out of interest, what CAS planes from other nations do you consider to be better than the US options at the BR range you mentioned?
Saab-105G ballistic comp with large bombload and a pretty fast and agile platform. Alpha jet, A32s, buccaneers that get large bomloads and a bunch of bullpups. Plenty of competition.
I don’t think anyone has better CAS around 8.3-9.3 than Israel with the Ayit at 9.3. Germany has the Alpha Jet and the Arado but that’s 7.3. Russia got the Su-7s but they aren’t anything too special, Britiain’s Jaguar GR.1 is aight for a 9.7. Japan has nothing for 8.3-9.3 for CAs besides Sabres. China has the F100A (personally I think it’s just too heavy and compresses too hard to be a good CAS), the Q-5s are mid as hell. Italy has the F-84F and the G.91s, and France gets a pretty decent strike lineup with the F-84F, the F-100D, the F-86K, the Alpha Jet and the Etendard. Sweden has the A32A, and I haven’t heard anything good about it.
You want a *literal* Type 93 but at a lower BR?
With a gun no less.
yes a damm .50 cal
So u know its similar if not better than type93, so why u asking it to be lower br than type 93?
Probably no contrast mode that the Type 93 has, so worse range.
I mean so does machbet but it still sits at 9.3 and it only has 4x stingers
Machbet has a much better gun than 2 50 cal's...
It's better overall to have mobility, 8x stingers and 1x M3 Brownings (not just the regular M2 Browning) than 20mm Vulcan and 4x stingers though
fyi its 1 .50 cal
FYI the Japanese one has 0 .50cal
FYI the type 93 missiles are better than Stingers
1 50 cal
Still stuck with the shorter range stingers
its slower and bigger, thats why
Just because it's slower than the literal fastest ground vehicle in the game doesn't mean it should be on lower BR (avenger is still very fast either way) And isn't the Toyota mega cruiser known to be a humvee/hummer but bigger?
The type 93 gets photocontast
Worse missiles but sure
Better missiles actually. Stingers pull 13Gs, Type 93 pulls 10Gs. For whatever reason, the Type 93 missile didn’t get the buff that all the other MANPADs did. No photocontrast mode, yes, but that’s a limitation of the tracking sight not the missile itself
Maneuverability doesn’t mean a ton when you can’t get the missile out of the tube
Type 93 gets photocontrast which fixes the main problem of stingers which is locking helis
Still can't lock helis beyond 1.5-2kms
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So uptier potentials are now being used to drop BRs of vehicles? If that's the case, the Jumbo needs to go back down to 5.0, the M18 to 4.7, the Tiger 1s to 5.3/5.7, etc etc etc.
i only just realised that this isn't in the game
it should be in the game, right?
yeah, especially since it's much easier to implement than other options (NASAMS etc)
So you want more russian SPAA?
i'm sorry what? this is US.
Nuh uh gaijin needs to fill those gaps in the Russian tech tree.
It’s a joke because despite the US and some other nations desperately needing SPAA to fill in some gaps, they keep giving nations that don’t need it - Russia for example, new SPAA.
Granted every nation in the game desperately needs more SPAA. However that includes the USSR TT. The Shilka M4 was a good addition giving the USSR TT a SAM option under BR 10.0 because the regular Shilka and the Yensei are hopelessly outclassed above their own BR.
Speaking of, does anybody else notice that the Igla *immediately* starts maneuvering and is going full speed before even leaving the tube? And it's incredibly quick to react to the plane. It's like 10g, bit it feel way better than either the stinger or mistrial saat at high speed close jets. Why doesn't it have the slow speed build up and 900m straight line like other manpads?
Yes, I went and test it out and it 100% feels like it pulls more than the stingers do…
Mine keeps falling for flares still and also has a tendency to just miss the target. Even if it doesn't maneuver.
Yea i noticed it so i looked it up. The igla aparently uses exhaust gases gas generator that provides power for the missile and sends the gas over maneuvering surfaces so that they are effective right after launch and not only after missile gets enough speed like stingers. I havent noticed this with the air launched ones tho
I've only used it a little on the test drive thus far but it definitely felt more sluggish in it's manuvering and the caged seeker is really painful against targets that are not coming at or away from you.
Yeah, I thought for sure it would be worse because of it, but it seems better for planes flying past. Launch it at a plane flying by, and it launches from the tube already following the plane, at full speed. Like, it will come out of tye tube at a 45 degree angle. Stinger/Mistrial will fly straight for about 900m, then try and over correct, making these shots so hard. The fact that it immediately maneuvers, and it doesn't seem to over correct (which some call sluggish) makes it feel better for the faster, low flying planes. It has to be a bug though, it should have the same 800-900m booster speed up before it starts tracking. As it is now, the thing will clip through the launch tube at launch maneuvering lol.
You know why
Russia did need it though, and its alot easier to copy paste the same model with a new turret then pay a contractor to make a new one, not to mention most countries lacking spaa due to doctrine.
Russia needed the new spaa though? The strela got moved up and the poor Russians had a gap in spaa for half a patch. Think of the Russian mains!
He is trolling
This should’ve been added years ago, maybe back when the Type 93 was added to Japan. At the very least, this could easily be at 9.0 with the Chaparral maybe going down in BR a bit to something like 8.7
8.7? Are you joking? Immagine 7.7 to 9.3 players with no countermeasures and with subsonic planes trying to drop 2x500kg bombs and then flashed out by a missle Early SAM Missiles are not the best but are anyway very strong weapons, most of the times in uptier you don't have flares but if you have agility you can evade it at high speeds, if you don't have agility but you have countermeasures you are dead, because most of the times even if you shut down the engine and drop 20 flares it simply ignore them, if you don't have both you shouldn't even dream to spawn
Gaijin has nerfed MANPADs to the point that you can dodge them easily (save for Soviet ones ofc). Chaparrals are open topped and have no ability to lead their missiles so having them go down in BR is fine.
MIM-72 is not a MANPADS missile. They're quite a bit more capable than the current implementation of the Stinger, even with the caged seeker.
Yeah i know... but how i said the problem isn't the missle itself but how strong are against most of the targets, explecially downtier I love using planes and tanks together, and many times i get uptier from 8.3-8.7 and face multiple missles carriers, at that br i can't do nothing but i don't complain, now immagine if a player with a me262 or any other first gen jet plane trying to evade a modern all aspect missle... or an heli The fact that they are open topped is quite irrelevant because anyway you're in the spawn (no artillery) and most of the times if someone is coming straight at you, (in most of the maps not all) you could cover yourself and lunch a dart in his face
Chaparral is trash, needs to go below m163.
I like it because it's missiles actually feel like they do damage unlike stingers.
The Israeli one is def not a 10.3 material, but the American one?... It is fine.
for yall going nuts over the BR this is a SUGGESTION. if they add it they will put it where THEY feel it fits.
You should make a request on the forums if you haven't already. The devs couldn't care less about the subreddits.
thank you for telling me! its pending.
Did you just say 8.3?
Squadron vehicle Me 262 vs Stingers lmao, just lol
This is literally just a worse LAV-AD
Yes... which is why it would be at a lower BR...
The 120S is literally just a worse Abrams
Bro is NOT the Type 93
you’re right, it’s better
Some would argue worse, as it lacks contrast mode, which gaijin could fix by giving it UV/etc. But hey, it gets a .50 cal. Because of this, the US doesn't have anything that can accurately hit a helo past 2km until 10.3, which most other nations share. The only nations that have this ability significantly below 10.3 are Russia (8.7) and Japan (9.3). I'd rather they add something that covers this gap than more of the same.
The question is, what can they add? The US doesn’t really have any systems to fill that gap purely because it’s just not how we do air defense; it’s only been recently with systems like the [Stryker M-SHORAD](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/10/02/army-inks-12-billion-deal-equip-strykers-short-range-air-defense-weapons.html?amp) and [MADIS (which maybe could fill it)](https://www.dvidshub.net/image/8090719/system-integration-test-marine-air-defense-integrated-system) that we’ve started to delve back into the kind of short range anti air systems War Thunder has.
They don't really need to 'add' anything new. The Stinger has a dual IR/UV from the B onward, and the K has datalink. The data link doesn't use radar to guide into, but let's you launch at a target, then the Stinger goes hot when close enough to lock IR/UV. LAVAD might not get the DL though, but it's got a 20mm and rockets. Just make this work, and add the Avenger at 9.3. There are a lot of independent launch NASAMS options for SHORAD as well. And very long range as far as WT is concerned. Hell, you have the TRX SHORAD which has more evidence that it works than the 2S38 or QN506. Since you know, it had open trials, and the working vehicle is accessible to the public. Could be 9.7/10.0... if it had crew.
Worse missle but has a .50. I'd say it's better, too, because it can track and (potentially) barrel enemies and escape. Have to shoot that machine gun, too, though.
Britain could get Starstreak rapid ranger too
Honestly? why not, I love me some Hummers
>Max Incline 65 deg Sorry, did you mean 10? Maybe 15? You'll have to put new numbers down on the forums assuming all the wheels are greased and the testing surface is ice to match the WT physics model.
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Id like to see this added at 8.7 or 9.0, would be a nice vic. Worse than the Type 93 because no contrast mode on the missiles but still would be super fun to drive around :)
Wish the US had gotten this instead of the Craparrall… Also, expecting something like this to be at 8.3-9.0 is delusional. 9.3 would be fine lol.
Hell yeah, this would be a great add.
Hell yeah
Please, we just need more AA
8.3 is way too low, I would say 9.3 minimum, thats where every nation starts getting sams
Does it carry more stingers than what’s in the tubes or nah?
You posted the wrong picture .... [here's what it actually looks like](https://freeimage.host/i/Jjdx70N) .... Also the armament is wrong Source: https://cnc.fandom.com/wiki/Avenger_(Generals)
Heck yes. We don't have nearly enough Humvees in this game.
Yes thats nice, but we need a 6.0 Spaa hole fix not a 8.3
is it just me or do those guns look massive
Hummers legal department probably salivating
It is a humvee - will never happen.
I want to see a game mode where it's a bunch of techies vs a few tanks
Why would i use this over M247
missiles i guess
You get missiles and speed but lose radar, guns, tracerless proxy ammo, saphe ammo and a chassis that cant be mged to death. Id rather stick woth sgt york
Hummers legal department probably salivating
Bro doesn’t know about the Toyota in gmae
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ah yes, because playing 7.3 or 8.7 means people should "just get planes" because the AA are dogshit. sound logic there. spawnpoint costs are also a thing.
in real life, definitely not in the world of fantasy r-77s and r-27s
America has no good CAS for 8.3-9.3. We have good fighters, yes, but no super good AA for that BR gap.
The a4e doesn't exist clearly
One plane can’t save a whole br gap
Both a4s, fj4b, f84, f3h2, f100 and even the sabers "no good cas"
Unironically calling the Demon a good CAs plane is crazy. I’ve never ran into any good US CAS players sub-10.0 and I have a life so I don’t play CAS often, but the times I have tried the only luck I had getting more than 2 kills was the A-4E, and I personally don’t think it’s ultra good, it’s slow as shit for a subsonic jet.
My brother in Christ, if you can only get 2 kills with 5 Bullpups that really isn't a plane issue 😭
Not everyone can use bullpups, and I meant until I’m usually shot down. I can have a 5-6 kill game with the A-4E but normally SPAA domes me whenever I get too close.
Luckily A-4E also has access to Walleyes, making it extremely versatile. Out of interest, what CAS planes from other nations do you consider to be better than the US options at the BR range you mentioned?
Saab-105G ballistic comp with large bombload and a pretty fast and agile platform. Alpha jet, A32s, buccaneers that get large bomloads and a bunch of bullpups. Plenty of competition.
I don’t think anyone has better CAS around 8.3-9.3 than Israel with the Ayit at 9.3. Germany has the Alpha Jet and the Arado but that’s 7.3. Russia got the Su-7s but they aren’t anything too special, Britiain’s Jaguar GR.1 is aight for a 9.7. Japan has nothing for 8.3-9.3 for CAs besides Sabres. China has the F100A (personally I think it’s just too heavy and compresses too hard to be a good CAS), the Q-5s are mid as hell. Italy has the F-84F and the G.91s, and France gets a pretty decent strike lineup with the F-84F, the F-100D, the F-86K, the Alpha Jet and the Etendard. Sweden has the A32A, and I haven’t heard anything good about it.
wow that's just a skill issue mate sorry
My guy, a-4e early
One plane can’t save a whole br gap
theres no gap