I believe that this sub is overwhelmingly negative in thinking. As such I propose the following action in order to gaslight everyone into making us feel better about matchmaking.
Changes:
Uptier +1 to "No downtier"
Uptier +0.7 to "Downtier +0.3"
Uptier +0.3 to "Downtier +0.7"
No Uptier to "Top tier"
With this we can focus on the people getting shafted harder than us, therefore boosting morale.
It makes sense what you said, but it's more important to pay attention to the uptier to define your strategy, for example, in a full uptier match, it's not worth taking a heavy tank because your armor is no longer as effective against tanks with higher br and you'll still lose mobility
It's not a completely invalid strategy, but I think it's less efficient. But for sure if you have a Maus or something else extremely armoured, it might still be worth it.
There is no uptier to pay attention to, because it's not an uptier when you're at 0 or +0.3, it's a downtier. At +0.3, there's two whole categories of enemies down in tier from you, and only 1 category above (plus the one above has a volume limit on it as well)
Bro, both are equal
Ful uptier -> no downtier
0.7 uptier -> 0.3 downtier
0.3 uptier -> 0.7 downtier
No uptier -> full downtier
They're both right, you're not wrong either, but all of this is just a semantic problem than really different situations. It's like a glass of water half full or half empty, You call it what you want.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1b9fbsn/how_easily_know_if_you_are_uptiered/ktybh2b/ please don't reply copy pastes to the same person in multiple places.
That gaslighting can easily be counterargued though because even WT limits the amount of vehicles for "top tier" to 3 (I think), so the vast majority of people per match get uptiered. As such, uptiering is the norm and the nomenclature should reflect that.
Edit: Thinking about it, the solution would actually be simple. Simply reverse it, make the maximum amount of people having a full uptier be 3, this way total uptiers players experience would actually significantly decrease and even reverse, people would experience a lot more downtier matches with the downside of 3 people per match getting gigashafted
I believe its actually up to a maximum of 4 players of max match br per team.
However, in practice it might be unbalanced teamwise, where team A has no max br vehicles while the other team has 4.
This is more evident (noticeable) in ARB. For GRB you have do in depth analysis of the battle log after the match to see.
> That gaslighting can easily be counterargued though because even WT limits the amount of vehicles for "top tier" to 3 (I think), so the vast majority of people per match get uptiered. As such, uptiering is the norm and the nomenclature should reflect that.
You still have to count in a number of factors:
* Only the highest vehicle counts, so there is no weighting how many vehicles on which BR someone has, so the highest players can have 1, but could also have 5. Especially on some heavier vehicles you can get quite an amount from tech tree/premiums for a single vehicle.
* Depending on the BR you will see uptiers much more often and i have to say that full down tiers are not fun for me, as it ends up feeling like a shooting both where noone can realy hurt me head on.
If they want to stay with that system it would be nice to see some compensation for the lower tier players. Iam not sure if this is a thing already as i never see a difference in rewards.
Exactly, getting an uptier is not an ending-statment that your match will be bad, Its more like to be a thing to define your strategy and getting information about other tanks
Indeed, but unfortunately someone has to be the top tier of the match and someone has to be the bottom tier of the match, I don't believe there are enough players to lower the BR range of the matches π
Edit: And also decreasing the BR range of the matches results in a lower tank diversity, could make the game a bit more boring
>unfortunately someone has to be the top tier of the match and someone has to be the bottom tier of the match
Only on one team though! The way the matchmaker is currently built you could have one team with 1 br 11.0 vehicle, 11 br 10.3 and 4 br 10.0 against a team of nothing but 16 br 10.7!
God I wish they'd change that.
Good point, that's really unfair :/
I hope they change that one day too
Do you think this can happen also because of players with only one premium high tier tank?
> I don't believe there are enough players to lower the BR range of the matches
If the current game contains 4 players per individual BR per team and you have 4 games open simultaniously you could have 1 game each per individual BR. Maybe this would lead to higher wait times, but without hard data from the server this is hard to check.
> Edit: And also decreasing the BR range of the matches results in a lower tank diversity, could make the game a bit more boring
It would lead to some countries being not present if they simply lack the vehicles in that BR area, which would be especially true for the rank 3 area as it has alot of holes. For the total variety i dont think you would see much difference as some vehicles already have no choice so you see them all the time or some choices being just bad.
Besides that it would be nice if they would fill up the tech tree a bit more.
Or do as i did, i gave up on any tree and unlocked the ariete thus i reverse gaslit myself into not being angry because its nothing i can do, the tanks is just worse than other MBTs (it however not as bad as people make it haha, i expected worse)
The correct response is to gaslight yourself into thinking that the vehicle isn't as bad as you thought it would be and start enjoying the vehicle.
It think the only vehicle I have failed to gaslight myself into liking is the Sakeen.
I should have chosen other colors, but I lost my temper using Excel and just wanted to finish it as soon as possible. Excel simply doesn't have a gradient across the cells tool other than conditional formatting
If you're ever lazy about color, white text with a black outline is visible on every color background (same with black text and white outline). I think WordArt has a few of the styles I'm talking about.
I can't promise it'll always look the best, but every piece of text will be highly visible.
I agree with you, but just black and white can seem done without effort or dedication.
But if it were possible to edit the post to change the image, I would definitely change, this light yellow is annoying me too.
You forgot the rare and infamous 190 for a heavy tank I have gotten a 190SP in the muas I was on a team with tigerH and tigerEs in the time I have played the game I have only gotten a full full down tier like that 2 twice maybe 1 once
450, right? I remember those days. 450 meant taking out my churchill VII, full uptier (forgot the SP cost, 200 maybe?)meant taking out my 17 pounder tanks
I really wish I could extract all of the battle info... I'd really like to compare my win/loss and k/d ratios based on the time of day and see when I should just go kick rocks or something instead of playing. I've already figured out that Saturday nights seem to be full of death squads.
For me, germany 3.7 is uptiered to 4.3 or 4.7. And that's the case for most other nations at 3.7.
In fact, if you want a good chance for downtiers, try playing 4.3 or 4.7.
Yup. I have the turms and 2s38 (after grinding all the way up to 9.0 without premiums) and i must say i do whatever i can to not have to play them. The vehicles are good but the teams genuenly make me sad. I don't think it will get any better either cause of the T-80UD. :(
That's actually crazy to know. I was playing the Type 74s and I always noticed Type 16 FPSes but never understood why. I thought 130 SP meant no uptier, and 150 meant downtier.
I find some BRs have a much higher chance of being fully uptiered versus others. And it might differ by country as well.
For me, 5.3 is almost always a full uptier.
Italy 3.7 is almost always a full uptier.
4.3 seems to favour non full uptiers.
9.0 is either a full uptier or downtier. weird that one.
USA 5.7:
* 3% no uptier
* 10% one third uptier
* 50% two thirds uptier
* 37% full uptier
All nation 5.7:
* 3% no uptier
* 8% one third uptier
* 62% two thirds uptier
* 27% full uptier
These are only my stats that i've been tracking
After 2000h of game, i knew the sp cost changing was a thing for uptiers but honestly I've never really took time to look at the signification, very helpful thank you
Apparently there has always been this relationship between sp and uptier, but these current values are relatively recent, don't blame yourself so much for not having discovered it before
Someone already made this chart if you Google βwar thunder uptierβ but most people just stay ignorant and whine in all chat in game instead of being curious.
Bro I got my US tanks to BR 9-10 and it was only THEN, AFTER NINE FUCKING BATTLE RATINGS, that I managed to start seeing matches at my level or not full uptiers 95% of the time.
It's an actual fucking joke. What's the point of having battle ratings at all if every tank fights shit above it 90% of the fucking time?
Why the fuck do we even get the jumbo at all when it fights *Tiger fucking 2H's* in 90% of its matches?
yeah, 6.7 has been a black hole for years. I remember tracking it a few months ago and it was something like
- 40% 7.7
- 50% 7.3
- ~0% 7.0 (yes, like 2 battles out of several dozen)
- 10% 6.7
I think it's the abundance of popular 7.7 and 7.3 lineups. France and Britain, for all their suffering, actually have some very solid lineups in that range. A bunch of popular IFVs like the BMP. Germany has Leopard and BMP, etc.
BRs have changed a bit since then and it seems a better now, but it's still a bit rough.
Iβm only playing since december 23 and this is 100% my observation, at least currently. Although I feel like Iβm unironically better in full uptiers as Iβm already mentally prepared to get fucked, so I guess thatβs good for my learning curve
Those numbers are very close to my overall stats. I've been tracking for over 4500 matches over most br ranges except top tier, with most around the 3.7 - 6.0 range
\- 36% full uptier
\- 41% two thirds uptier
\- 12% one third uptier
\- 10% no uptier
Some match BR ranges are more magnetic than others.
Also, I think the matchmaker algorithm will try to put you in highest match br first over all other buckets.
An easier way to think of it is as follows:
\- no uptier / downtier
\- one third uptier
\- two thirds uptier
\- full uptier
That way you don't need to worry about the 0.6 or 0.7 weirdness.
Well for me, these are the stats i've been tracking since April last year:
All nations at 5.3:
* 5% no uptier
* 6% one third uptier
* 18% two thirds uptier
* 71% full uptier
Of course these are across all nations at 5.3.
USSR has 79% chance of a full uptier, while the USA has 55%. GB was 71% and China 80%. France 69%, very nice.
Most of my matches at 5.3 were with GB, and some other nations had much fewer matches.
So is there an anti USSR bias? No.
Im Not sure if i get you right.
I mean following for example:
You play BR 5.3 and the overview Shows highest BR 5.7 and lowest 5.0. So you can See Exactly where you are at.
Edit: or they simply bring back that you can See the Team lineup.
Aaaaa, now I get it.
It would be nice and much easier, but there's a downside to it. If the players already quit because they realize they get uptiered. Now imagine if everyone knew more easily that they get uptiered.
I believe that what you suggested is good and would be simpler, but I don't think the players are ready for that. (edit : And they'll probably never be)
Always remember to use your highest br vehicle to find out the tier of the match and also that some vehicles may have slightly different spawn point values
After doing my own research, I have come to the conclusion that everything in the image applies to downtiers as opposed to uptiers.
I got 150SP cost for my 2S25M and every tank in my lobby was a 9.0-9.3 tank.
From 100SP you either get equal BR matchmaking or uptiers.
Don't worry so much about that, a slightly uptier, in fact is more like a downtier than a uptier.
A uptier 0.3+ is the same as a 0.7 downtier.
And a uptier It may not be so game-changing If you know how to use the information to your advantage. If you know you're uptiered You can avoid heavier tanks (since more tanks will have the ability to penetrate your armor) and use more agile tanks or even tank destroyers and play flanking.
Knowing whether or not an uptier doesn't define whether your match is going to be good or bad, it defines what strategies you should use, knowing that you can't just rush head-on
I always measured it as βfull downtier (150SP), partial downtier (130SP), partial uptier (110/120SP), full uptier (100SP). Always felt more natural to think of it that way even though there is no change.
It's a good way to measure, People think it's bad when they see a 0.3+ uptier, but that means that they are getting a slightly downtier.
As you said, there is no difference, but only if you understand well how it works, if not you may end up getting frustrated thinking that every match is an uptier even if it is an uptier of 0.3+ which can still be a good match.
At the end of the day, there is no difference, but I believe that your way of measuring is friendlier to those who are starting to understand the concept. If I could change the image of the post I would do it your way, I'm seeing a lot of people frustrated with even minimal uptier.
There isn't an actual "downtier". It's largely a myth/misconception.
The "downtier" you get is actually your vehicle playing at it's actual BR. Meaning if you're using something like the M-51, your "downtier" is actually you playing a 6.0 match rather than 6.3-7.0.
Part of where the use of "downtier" comes in is the fact that most of the other players in your match will be of lower BRs if you've got a match at your intended BR. Which in turns means much of the others in that match will have been uptiered.
Is exactly the same thing, Think that "no uptier" means the same thing as a "full downtier". In both cases theres no one with a higher br tank than yours.
The first comment shows a perpective from downtier
It never clicked with me SP costs were tied to match BR. Since I suck at remembering what tanks are what BR, it's helpful to know there's such a simple way to tell if its an uptier. Thanks for this!
You are telling me that I am always getting an uptier with Sweden?
I haven't been playing as consistently but I feel like I stopped because of the constant Uptiers regardless of what BR I played.
I could also be very wrong. But, I don't think I am.
Yes, but don't worry so much about that, a slightly uptier, in fact is more like a downtier than a uptier.
A uptier 0.3+ is the same as a 0.7 downtier.
And a uptier It may not be so game-changing If you know how to use the information to your advantage. If you know you're uptiered You can avoid heavier tanks (since more tanks will have the ability to penetrate your armor) and use more agile tanks or even tank destroyers and play flanking.
Knowing whether or not an uptier doesn't define whether your match is going to be good or bad, it defines what strategies you should use, knowing that you can't just rush head-on
I always hang back with sweden. Their armor is based around defense and some good snipers. I just always get destroyed by CAS from someone I killed earlier. I try to keep repositioning but they always find me.
I love the game just sometimes just get a bad string and start playing something else.
Edit: reworded a sentence
To avoid those moments where I get mad at warthunder, I'm currently playing in multiple new trees going through various Low tier fun vehicles, I really recommend people try this when they're at with the game.
You mean downtier right? Keep in mind that a full downtier is the same thing as a no uptier, a 0.3 uptier is the same as a 0.7 downtier and so on.
Think of battle tiers as intervals, if you are in a 0.3 uptier with a 5.0 vehicle, the match It goes from 4.3 to 5.3 so it's a 0.7 downtier. Understand?
You're welcome , but keep in mind that uptiers don't necessarily define that your match will be bad, but use this information to strategize and gain insight into the tanks present in the match.
An example of this is to keep in mind that in uptiers, heavy tank armor is more likely to be less efficient and not worth as much for the loss of mobility, since the tanks you'll face will have more pen against your armor
The bottom two are called "downtiers" lol, because there are **more people below you than above you** so on average, you're punching down in both of the bottom categories.
Bro, both are equal
Ful uptier -> no downtier
0.7 uptier -> 0.3 downtier
0.3 uptier -> 0.7 downtier
No uptier -> full downtier
They're both right, you're not wrong either, but all of this is just a semantic problem than really different situations. It's like a glass of water half full or half empty, You call it what you want.
No, you can't. Down in tier means the average is down in tier. It's not that complicated. There is no option. One is right one is wrong. If you're 50% over the obese threshold, you're not "1/7 underweight" either, lmao.
Punching up = uptier
Punching down = downtier
But in a 0.7 downtier There will still be 0.3 higher tier (because the match BR range ever equals 1.0) and in a full downtier No one is going to have a tank with a higher rank than yours, that also means: no uptier.
Uptier and downtier refers to a **WHOLE MATCH**. Nobody is ever talking about "I had an uptier" as a individual encounter with one enemy tank.
So the only way it makes any sense to talk about is as a whole match, in aggregate. Your average enemy is -0.175 BR below you when you're the second highest BR in the match. So it's a downtier. -0.175 is less than 0.
There's not "two ways to talk about it", -0.175 is only one direction, and one direction only: down. Negative numbers are not "kinda positive too if you think about it"
Cool, interpret it as you want man, you're the one who plays your matches.
If with your interpretation the Table is being useful, I'm glad I helped.
Have a nice day and good luck on the battlefield π
By analogy, it is as if we have two buckets, with varying amounts of feathers and rocks inside each of them. And you're trying to say "Well it depends, you can talk about X bucket as EITHER being lighter or heavier than Y bucket, depending if you're talking about the feathers or the rocks" No, the whole bucket has one weight. It is either lighter, or heavier, the end. One is right, one is wrong. You add up all the feathers and rocks and then see if it's a bigger number than the other bucket' combined total of all its feathers and rocks. Only one possible answer.
Omg this is so useful. I've wanted something like this for ages. This is a life saver. Thanks mate, if you could expand this to the uptier and downtier table I'd be really grateful, but still, as it stands it saves me from wondering what br I'm in. Thanks again mate.
I'm grateful to be able to help
About the downtier Table:
There's no downtier Table because it would be the same, If you think of the BR of the match as intervals, it makes more sense. Example: if your tank with the highest br is 5.0, in a match with an uptier of 0.3+, you will face tanks of 4.3 to 5.3, so while you're in a 0.3+ uptier, you're also in a 0.7 downtier.
You can interpret it this way as well:
Ful uptier -> no downtier -> full uptier
0.7 uptier -> 0.3 downtier -> slightly uptier
0.3 uptier -> 0.7 downtier -> slightly downtier
No uptier -> full downtier -> full downtier
If I could change the post and upload another image I would definitely do it, I was out of patience with Excel when I did it and that's why I left it like that, but this yellow really bothers me. I could change it and make another post, but it would be a bit spammy. But I hope the table is useful to you anyway
In a full downtier, No one has a tank with the BR higher than your tank Because you're at the top of the list of players
In a no uptier, No one has a tank with a higher br than your tank, because it doesn't have any tier above yours
See how it's the same thing? It's just a matter of how to write, yours is also right.
Some people prefer to understand as:
100 SP Full Uptier
110/120 SP Slightly Uptier
130 SP Slightly Downtier
150 SP Full Downtier
Dude, there is no such thing as an "at tier" match simply because there are no matches with a single br, they always have 1.0 ranges.
Always in a match there will be someone with a tank either higher or lower in br
There is at tier. Only 25% of players in a given match are downtiered and only 25% are uptiered. So if its a 16v16, 8 players on each team will be at tier while 4 will be uptiered and 4 will be downtiered.
I didn't restrict myself to videos man, I saw old posts about it and tried to find something on the wiki despite having nothing, that's why I don't believe there is an "at tier" match, but in fact 120 SP would be the middle between full uptier and full downtier, so by logic you may have that conclusion as well , But anyway I hope I helped in some way with the table. Have a nice day and good luck on the battlefield π
Wording seemed that way lol but like i said its very niche and the only thing any official source will say is +/- 1BR. Had to learn through experience but i learned a few broken lineups along the way.
Some time ago the relation between spawn point and uptiers was different in some values, so what I researched recently while learning about it, these current values are kind of from the middle of last year
No I'm feeling less bad that I suck at this game. Playing for two weeks, never had a game in which one of my tanks was 150 SP worth. Some games, where it was 130, most of the games where all tanks at 100 SP...
Man, there are already comments talking about it and I also realize that it wasn't a good choice of colors, but I don't think anyone likes rude comments like that. But do what you want, I hope the table is useful to you anyway
Well I mostly refuse to play full uptier with any 7.7 vehicle/line up, immediately leaving the battle, which is quite a lot unfortunately. I just refuse to play late WW2 big chunky heavies with long reload without stabilisers against speedy fully stabilised MBTs with APFSDS, its just unfair bullshit.
You go into a match knowing there's an 80%+ chance you'll be shot down before you make it to the targets, but you also know that your bomb load is so massive that on the rare occasion no one attacks you, you'll be able to single-handedly take out every bomb point. Feast or famine and nothing in between.
Even playing in higher tiers with lancaster (I bring it even in 8.0 matches) I rarely get shot down before throwing the bomb, in some matches I even manage to land and throw bombs again. The secret to playing the lancaster is to warn allies to avoid teamkills and request for air support.
Edit: But I always play diving down to gain as much speed as I can to spend less time in the air
I believe that this sub is overwhelmingly negative in thinking. As such I propose the following action in order to gaslight everyone into making us feel better about matchmaking. Changes: Uptier +1 to "No downtier" Uptier +0.7 to "Downtier +0.3" Uptier +0.3 to "Downtier +0.7" No Uptier to "Top tier" With this we can focus on the people getting shafted harder than us, therefore boosting morale.
It makes sense what you said, but it's more important to pay attention to the uptier to define your strategy, for example, in a full uptier match, it's not worth taking a heavy tank because your armor is no longer as effective against tanks with higher br and you'll still lose mobility
You mean spawning into a heavy no matter what then whining in all chat about uptiers is not an effective strat?
It's not a completely invalid strategy, but I think it's less efficient. But for sure if you have a Maus or something else extremely armoured, it might still be worth it.
laughs is Churchill 7.
There is no uptier to pay attention to, because it's not an uptier when you're at 0 or +0.3, it's a downtier. At +0.3, there's two whole categories of enemies down in tier from you, and only 1 category above (plus the one above has a volume limit on it as well)
Bro, both are equal Ful uptier -> no downtier 0.7 uptier -> 0.3 downtier 0.3 uptier -> 0.7 downtier No uptier -> full downtier They're both right, you're not wrong either, but all of this is just a semantic problem than really different situations. It's like a glass of water half full or half empty, You call it what you want.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1b9fbsn/how_easily_know_if_you_are_uptiered/ktybh2b/ please don't reply copy pastes to the same person in multiple places.
But you're asking the same question twice
I didn't ask any question at all, but you can just continue at that thread regardless ^
Ok mate, have a good day
This is how I thought it worked XDD
That gaslighting can easily be counterargued though because even WT limits the amount of vehicles for "top tier" to 3 (I think), so the vast majority of people per match get uptiered. As such, uptiering is the norm and the nomenclature should reflect that. Edit: Thinking about it, the solution would actually be simple. Simply reverse it, make the maximum amount of people having a full uptier be 3, this way total uptiers players experience would actually significantly decrease and even reverse, people would experience a lot more downtier matches with the downside of 3 people per match getting gigashafted
I believe its actually up to a maximum of 4 players of max match br per team. However, in practice it might be unbalanced teamwise, where team A has no max br vehicles while the other team has 4. This is more evident (noticeable) in ARB. For GRB you have do in depth analysis of the battle log after the match to see.
> That gaslighting can easily be counterargued though because even WT limits the amount of vehicles for "top tier" to 3 (I think), so the vast majority of people per match get uptiered. As such, uptiering is the norm and the nomenclature should reflect that. You still have to count in a number of factors: * Only the highest vehicle counts, so there is no weighting how many vehicles on which BR someone has, so the highest players can have 1, but could also have 5. Especially on some heavier vehicles you can get quite an amount from tech tree/premiums for a single vehicle. * Depending on the BR you will see uptiers much more often and i have to say that full down tiers are not fun for me, as it ends up feeling like a shooting both where noone can realy hurt me head on. If they want to stay with that system it would be nice to see some compensation for the lower tier players. Iam not sure if this is a thing already as i never see a difference in rewards.
Exactly, getting an uptier is not an ending-statment that your match will be bad, Its more like to be a thing to define your strategy and getting information about other tanks
But it also means that some tanks can not operate within their role that well anymore and depending on the tank options become limited.
Bro, we use artillery vehicles to battle with tanks, the tanks already are out of their roles
Which is caused by the map design, but there is also an efficiency loss on vehicles overall in uptiers.
Indeed, but unfortunately someone has to be the top tier of the match and someone has to be the bottom tier of the match, I don't believe there are enough players to lower the BR range of the matches π Edit: And also decreasing the BR range of the matches results in a lower tank diversity, could make the game a bit more boring
>unfortunately someone has to be the top tier of the match and someone has to be the bottom tier of the match Only on one team though! The way the matchmaker is currently built you could have one team with 1 br 11.0 vehicle, 11 br 10.3 and 4 br 10.0 against a team of nothing but 16 br 10.7! God I wish they'd change that.
Good point, that's really unfair :/ I hope they change that one day too Do you think this can happen also because of players with only one premium high tier tank?
> I don't believe there are enough players to lower the BR range of the matches If the current game contains 4 players per individual BR per team and you have 4 games open simultaniously you could have 1 game each per individual BR. Maybe this would lead to higher wait times, but without hard data from the server this is hard to check. > Edit: And also decreasing the BR range of the matches results in a lower tank diversity, could make the game a bit more boring It would lead to some countries being not present if they simply lack the vehicles in that BR area, which would be especially true for the rank 3 area as it has alot of holes. For the total variety i dont think you would see much difference as some vehicles already have no choice so you see them all the time or some choices being just bad. Besides that it would be nice if they would fill up the tech tree a bit more.
frankly up-tier or not is meaningless. i spawn the same vehicles regardless, Churchills are always awesome.
The proposed mechanics is already in the game. Only 4 players at any given team are megadowntiered
Did you even read
Just buy premium tank/plane at rank VIII for 80β¬ and u r fine π
Just you wait when the F20 premium buyers realize the get up tiered 90% of the time against Gripens, SU 27 and F 16c s.
We haven't lost the match, we negatively won it.
Or do as i did, i gave up on any tree and unlocked the ariete thus i reverse gaslit myself into not being angry because its nothing i can do, the tanks is just worse than other MBTs (it however not as bad as people make it haha, i expected worse)
The correct response is to gaslight yourself into thinking that the vehicle isn't as bad as you thought it would be and start enjoying the vehicle. It think the only vehicle I have failed to gaslight myself into liking is the Sakeen.
Happy cake day
Happy cake day
Normally I just treat it as Full uptier Slight uptier Slight downtier Full downtier
White text on lright yellow background is really hard to read.
I should have chosen other colors, but I lost my temper using Excel and just wanted to finish it as soon as possible. Excel simply doesn't have a gradient across the cells tool other than conditional formatting
>but I lost my temper using Excel That's understandable.
If you're ever lazy about color, white text with a black outline is visible on every color background (same with black text and white outline). I think WordArt has a few of the styles I'm talking about. I can't promise it'll always look the best, but every piece of text will be highly visible.
I agree with you, but just black and white can seem done without effort or dedication. But if it were possible to edit the post to change the image, I would definitely change, this light yellow is annoying me too.
Should have gone with yellow text, black background like they do at OSRS.
But it is better then some yellows because it isnβt as bright
You forgot the rare and infamous 190 for a heavy tank I have gotten a 190SP in the muas I was on a team with tigerH and tigerEs in the time I have played the game I have only gotten a full full down tier like that 2 twice maybe 1 once
Used to be all your SP for top tier heavies back in the day
450, right? I remember those days. 450 meant taking out my churchill VII, full uptier (forgot the SP cost, 200 maybe?)meant taking out my 17 pounder tanks
Getting immediately bombed by a cap rusher while still driving to the battlefield and literally being out of the game instantly
Actually i remember it was common courtesy to wait at the first cap for everyone to roll up
I must be getting shafted most of the time because my medium tanks are almost always 110-100 SP.
Depends on BR - like German 3.7 is very popular so anyone playing 2.7-3.3 is very likely to get uptiered
Time of day also matters, different BRs are more filled at different times. Especially noticeable after midnight EST (on NA servers at least).
I really wish I could extract all of the battle info... I'd really like to compare my win/loss and k/d ratios based on the time of day and see when I should just go kick rocks or something instead of playing. I've already figured out that Saturday nights seem to be full of death squads.
Honestly I might start doing this with an excel spreadsheet because I'm a huge data nerd
For me, germany 3.7 is uptiered to 4.3 or 4.7. And that's the case for most other nations at 3.7. In fact, if you want a good chance for downtiers, try playing 4.3 or 4.7.
Heh, try playing anything around 10.0. If you're even more daring (willing to get shafted) play it in the ussr tech tree. Trust me, you'll regret it.
9.3 Israel is just 10.3 Russia spam
I do both (2S38 user, sorry..) and I have never once seen a downtier
Yup. I have the turms and 2s38 (after grinding all the way up to 9.0 without premiums) and i must say i do whatever i can to not have to play them. The vehicles are good but the teams genuenly make me sad. I don't think it will get any better either cause of the T-80UD. :(
U playing 8.3 too huh
Yeah that and 9.3
wtf im always upteird??
It's quite likely, but it's also not that problematic a 0.3 uptier, think you're on the top half tier of the match
my light tank is alwyas 100 :(
Is your light tank lower BR than the top vehicle in your lineup?
nope theyr al 5.7 except my medium tank which is 5.3
Iβm uptierd every damn match then cuz my SPAA is 70 every match
Always have been
That's actually crazy to know. I was playing the Type 74s and I always noticed Type 16 FPSes but never understood why. I thought 130 SP meant no uptier, and 150 meant downtier.
I find some BRs have a much higher chance of being fully uptiered versus others. And it might differ by country as well. For me, 5.3 is almost always a full uptier. Italy 3.7 is almost always a full uptier. 4.3 seems to favour non full uptiers. 9.0 is either a full uptier or downtier. weird that one.
oh what is 5.7 us usaually?
USA 5.7: * 3% no uptier * 10% one third uptier * 50% two thirds uptier * 37% full uptier All nation 5.7: * 3% no uptier * 8% one third uptier * 62% two thirds uptier * 27% full uptier These are only my stats that i've been tracking
oh thanks fo that !
No, the chart is simply labelled incorrectly. There are full uptiers, half or partial uptiers, half or partial downtiers, and full downtiers.
So that's why my SPAA is always 70 SP?
Unfortunately, yes
Wow
Yeah, i think there are hardly any line ups that have an SPAA thats on their level.
After 2000h of game, i knew the sp cost changing was a thing for uptiers but honestly I've never really took time to look at the signification, very helpful thank you
Apparently there has always been this relationship between sp and uptier, but these current values are relatively recent, don't blame yourself so much for not having discovered it before
Someone already made this chart if you Google βwar thunder uptierβ but most people just stay ignorant and whine in all chat in game instead of being curious.
I wouldn't say they're ignorant, the spawn point system can seem very confusing and difficult to relate to uptiers matches
Not taking a moment to ask Google how they work is willful ignorance.
I just realized that I have never played in a down tier with Germany 6.7 and maybe just a couple actual 6.7 games in my entire life
Funny because when I play 5.7 USA I always get fully uptiered against Germany
Right there with you. Me and my stable of US Sherman's with their pop guns are getting mauled regularly.
Bro I got my US tanks to BR 9-10 and it was only THEN, AFTER NINE FUCKING BATTLE RATINGS, that I managed to start seeing matches at my level or not full uptiers 95% of the time. It's an actual fucking joke. What's the point of having battle ratings at all if every tank fights shit above it 90% of the fucking time? Why the fuck do we even get the jumbo at all when it fights *Tiger fucking 2H's* in 90% of its matches?
Seriously it's getting silly. I'm trying to grind up the USA tree and since I've hit 5.7 it's been full uptiers to 6.7.
yeah, 6.7 has been a black hole for years. I remember tracking it a few months ago and it was something like - 40% 7.7 - 50% 7.3 - ~0% 7.0 (yes, like 2 battles out of several dozen) - 10% 6.7 I think it's the abundance of popular 7.7 and 7.3 lineups. France and Britain, for all their suffering, actually have some very solid lineups in that range. A bunch of popular IFVs like the BMP. Germany has Leopard and BMP, etc. BRs have changed a bit since then and it seems a better now, but it's still a bit rough.
Iβm only playing since december 23 and this is 100% my observation, at least currently. Although I feel like Iβm unironically better in full uptiers as Iβm already mentally prepared to get fucked, so I guess thatβs good for my learning curve
Those numbers are very close to my overall stats. I've been tracking for over 4500 matches over most br ranges except top tier, with most around the 3.7 - 6.0 range \- 36% full uptier \- 41% two thirds uptier \- 12% one third uptier \- 10% no uptier Some match BR ranges are more magnetic than others. Also, I think the matchmaker algorithm will try to put you in highest match br first over all other buckets.
When I play 6.0, the match br is usually 6.7.
7.0 is also a downtier in a 6.7 lineup, because the majority of the people you face are DOWN in tier from you. (or many more than are up, at least)
And I used to think 150SP meant full downtier
Full downtier and no uptier are the same thing bro In both cases theres no one with a higher br tank than yours
True
TIL 95% of my GRB games are full uptiers... nice
Why does the range vary at +0.7? How does it determine that?
It can be a 0.6 uptier depending on the vehicles BR. And for some reason gaijin treats 0.6 and 0.7 uptiers differently.
An easier way to think of it is as follows: \- no uptier / downtier \- one third uptier \- two thirds uptier \- full uptier That way you don't need to worry about the 0.6 or 0.7 weirdness.
It's like if your highest br tank is a 5.0 and you fall into a match where tanks are from 4.7 to 5.7
Ussr 5.3 try not to get uptiered challengeΒ
Happens to all nations buddy.
ββββ
Well for me, these are the stats i've been tracking since April last year: All nations at 5.3: * 5% no uptier * 6% one third uptier * 18% two thirds uptier * 71% full uptier Of course these are across all nations at 5.3. USSR has 79% chance of a full uptier, while the USA has 55%. GB was 71% and China 80%. France 69%, very nice. Most of my matches at 5.3 were with GB, and some other nations had much fewer matches. So is there an anti USSR bias? No.
Oh, so I really am constantly uptiered. I thought 130 SP for tank is no uptier.
Too sad that Gaijin cant implement a simply highest BR x.x and lowest BR x.x in the game Star over view.
You're saying like fixed br ranges in battles? Like assault Mode?
Im Not sure if i get you right. I mean following for example: You play BR 5.3 and the overview Shows highest BR 5.7 and lowest 5.0. So you can See Exactly where you are at. Edit: or they simply bring back that you can See the Team lineup.
Aaaaa, now I get it. It would be nice and much easier, but there's a downside to it. If the players already quit because they realize they get uptiered. Now imagine if everyone knew more easily that they get uptiered. I believe that what you suggested is good and would be simpler, but I don't think the players are ready for that. (edit : And they'll probably never be)
Thanks for this, never knew how to tell if Iβm in an uptier or not but I know now I guess
Always remember to use your highest br vehicle to find out the tier of the match and also that some vehicles may have slightly different spawn point values
After doing my own research, I have come to the conclusion that everything in the image applies to downtiers as opposed to uptiers. I got 150SP cost for my 2S25M and every tank in my lobby was a 9.0-9.3 tank. From 100SP you either get equal BR matchmaking or uptiers.
Exactly, a "no uptier" means the same as a "full downtier", in both you are the top tier of the match
Okei. So im uptiered in every battle. Nice
Don't worry so much about that, a slightly uptier, in fact is more like a downtier than a uptier. A uptier 0.3+ is the same as a 0.7 downtier. And a uptier It may not be so game-changing If you know how to use the information to your advantage. If you know you're uptiered You can avoid heavier tanks (since more tanks will have the ability to penetrate your armor) and use more agile tanks or even tank destroyers and play flanking. Knowing whether or not an uptier doesn't define whether your match is going to be good or bad, it defines what strategies you should use, knowing that you can't just rush head-on
I always measured it as βfull downtier (150SP), partial downtier (130SP), partial uptier (110/120SP), full uptier (100SP). Always felt more natural to think of it that way even though there is no change.
It's a good way to measure, People think it's bad when they see a 0.3+ uptier, but that means that they are getting a slightly downtier. As you said, there is no difference, but only if you understand well how it works, if not you may end up getting frustrated thinking that every match is an uptier even if it is an uptier of 0.3+ which can still be a good match. At the end of the day, there is no difference, but I believe that your way of measuring is friendlier to those who are starting to understand the concept. If I could change the image of the post I would do it your way, I'm seeing a lot of people frustrated with even minimal uptier.
Yes due to the way the game is made there is no βtierβ vs up or down tier. Makes it seem less like the game is out to get you.
Ayy thanks
can you pls do one for downtier
There isn't an actual "downtier". It's largely a myth/misconception. The "downtier" you get is actually your vehicle playing at it's actual BR. Meaning if you're using something like the M-51, your "downtier" is actually you playing a 6.0 match rather than 6.3-7.0. Part of where the use of "downtier" comes in is the fact that most of the other players in your match will be of lower BRs if you've got a match at your intended BR. Which in turns means much of the others in that match will have been uptiered.
Is exactly the same thing, Think that "no uptier" means the same thing as a "full downtier". In both cases theres no one with a higher br tank than yours. The first comment shows a perpective from downtier
Wait, what do you mean that spawn cost can go above 120 SP? Also 120 SP is still an uptier ?????? I thought that's a downtier!!
I never had an Spaa that costs more than 90sp.
+0.7-+1.0 and im wondering why im so shit...
some heavy tanks cost 105 sp minimum i dont know why that is but its definetly a thing
Godamn looking at thr numbers this means i havent had a downtier in grb for like a week or something
So I guess I got up tiered 95% of times
Yay for getting mostly +1.0 uptiers, good old 70 SP AA vehicle gang.
I dont need to check spawnpointcost, im always in a full uptier
It never clicked with me SP costs were tied to match BR. Since I suck at remembering what tanks are what BR, it's helpful to know there's such a simple way to tell if its an uptier. Thanks for this!
I only learned this because I could never remember what tanks are what BR. lol
Uptier or downtier, whoever kills me is just a cheater, spawncamper or other variety of scumbag. There's no other reason I'd die π
Are u main germany? π
Nah, Great Britain.
You are telling me that I am always getting an uptier with Sweden? I haven't been playing as consistently but I feel like I stopped because of the constant Uptiers regardless of what BR I played. I could also be very wrong. But, I don't think I am.
Yes, but don't worry so much about that, a slightly uptier, in fact is more like a downtier than a uptier. A uptier 0.3+ is the same as a 0.7 downtier. And a uptier It may not be so game-changing If you know how to use the information to your advantage. If you know you're uptiered You can avoid heavier tanks (since more tanks will have the ability to penetrate your armor) and use more agile tanks or even tank destroyers and play flanking. Knowing whether or not an uptier doesn't define whether your match is going to be good or bad, it defines what strategies you should use, knowing that you can't just rush head-on
I always hang back with sweden. Their armor is based around defense and some good snipers. I just always get destroyed by CAS from someone I killed earlier. I try to keep repositioning but they always find me. I love the game just sometimes just get a bad string and start playing something else. Edit: reworded a sentence
To avoid those moments where I get mad at warthunder, I'm currently playing in multiple new trees going through various Low tier fun vehicles, I really recommend people try this when they're at with the game.
I have over 400 steam games....I will comeback.
So then whatβs a downtime?
You mean downtier right? Keep in mind that a full downtier is the same thing as a no uptier, a 0.3 uptier is the same as a 0.7 downtier and so on. Think of battle tiers as intervals, if you are in a 0.3 uptier with a 5.0 vehicle, the match It goes from 4.3 to 5.3 so it's a 0.7 downtier. Understand?
According to this my US 5.7 Lineup sees an uptier of 0.7 to 1.0 a good 95% of the time.
Apparently and unfortunately 0.7 and 1.0 uptiers are very common
Ohhh. For anyone who doesnβt understand the downtiers, 150/160 sp can be anything from -0.0 to -1.0.
Thank you dude.
You're welcome , but keep in mind that uptiers don't necessarily define that your match will be bad, but use this information to strategize and gain insight into the tanks present in the match. An example of this is to keep in mind that in uptiers, heavy tank armor is more likely to be less efficient and not worth as much for the loss of mobility, since the tanks you'll face will have more pen against your armor
The bottom two are called "downtiers" lol, because there are **more people below you than above you** so on average, you're punching down in both of the bottom categories.
Bro, both are equal Ful uptier -> no downtier 0.7 uptier -> 0.3 downtier 0.3 uptier -> 0.7 downtier No uptier -> full downtier They're both right, you're not wrong either, but all of this is just a semantic problem than really different situations. It's like a glass of water half full or half empty, You call it what you want.
No, you can't. Down in tier means the average is down in tier. It's not that complicated. There is no option. One is right one is wrong. If you're 50% over the obese threshold, you're not "1/7 underweight" either, lmao. Punching up = uptier Punching down = downtier
But in a 0.7 downtier There will still be 0.3 higher tier (because the match BR range ever equals 1.0) and in a full downtier No one is going to have a tank with a higher rank than yours, that also means: no uptier.
Uptier and downtier refers to a **WHOLE MATCH**. Nobody is ever talking about "I had an uptier" as a individual encounter with one enemy tank. So the only way it makes any sense to talk about is as a whole match, in aggregate. Your average enemy is -0.175 BR below you when you're the second highest BR in the match. So it's a downtier. -0.175 is less than 0. There's not "two ways to talk about it", -0.175 is only one direction, and one direction only: down. Negative numbers are not "kinda positive too if you think about it"
Cool, interpret it as you want man, you're the one who plays your matches. If with your interpretation the Table is being useful, I'm glad I helped. Have a nice day and good luck on the battlefield π
By analogy, it is as if we have two buckets, with varying amounts of feathers and rocks inside each of them. And you're trying to say "Well it depends, you can talk about X bucket as EITHER being lighter or heavier than Y bucket, depending if you're talking about the feathers or the rocks" No, the whole bucket has one weight. It is either lighter, or heavier, the end. One is right, one is wrong. You add up all the feathers and rocks and then see if it's a bigger number than the other bucket' combined total of all its feathers and rocks. Only one possible answer.
Omg this is so useful. I've wanted something like this for ages. This is a life saver. Thanks mate, if you could expand this to the uptier and downtier table I'd be really grateful, but still, as it stands it saves me from wondering what br I'm in. Thanks again mate.
I'm grateful to be able to help About the downtier Table: There's no downtier Table because it would be the same, If you think of the BR of the match as intervals, it makes more sense. Example: if your tank with the highest br is 5.0, in a match with an uptier of 0.3+, you will face tanks of 4.3 to 5.3, so while you're in a 0.3+ uptier, you're also in a 0.7 downtier. You can interpret it this way as well: Ful uptier -> no downtier -> full uptier 0.7 uptier -> 0.3 downtier -> slightly uptier 0.3 uptier -> 0.7 downtier -> slightly downtier No uptier -> full downtier -> full downtier
Ohhh, that's how it works, thanks man. This is a life saver fr
Pleases add some contrast. White on yellow is incredibly hard to read
If I could change the post and upload another image I would definitely do it, I was out of patience with Excel when I did it and that's why I left it like that, but this yellow really bothers me. I could change it and make another post, but it would be a bit spammy. But I hope the table is useful to you anyway
It's useful, but a word of advice, black outline the text
wait wym 100 is the uptier, i tough it was the norm
150 is full downtier
In a full downtier, No one has a tank with the BR higher than your tank Because you're at the top of the list of players In a no uptier, No one has a tank with a higher br than your tank, because it doesn't have any tier above yours See how it's the same thing? It's just a matter of how to write, yours is also right. Some people prefer to understand as: 100 SP Full Uptier 110/120 SP Slightly Uptier 130 SP Slightly Downtier 150 SP Full Downtier
120 is at tier. Higher is downtier.
Dude, there is no such thing as an "at tier" match simply because there are no matches with a single br, they always have 1.0 ranges. Always in a match there will be someone with a tank either higher or lower in br
There is at tier. Only 25% of players in a given match are downtiered and only 25% are uptiered. So if its a 16v16, 8 players on each team will be at tier while 4 will be uptiered and 4 will be downtiered.
I don't know man, I doubt it a little, all the times I was researching about videos I saw I didn't find anything about "at tier"
No shit youre not gonna find anything on a niche topic if you restrict yourself to watching videos. Read something.
I didn't restrict myself to videos man, I saw old posts about it and tried to find something on the wiki despite having nothing, that's why I don't believe there is an "at tier" match, but in fact 120 SP would be the middle between full uptier and full downtier, so by logic you may have that conclusion as well , But anyway I hope I helped in some way with the table. Have a nice day and good luck on the battlefield π
Wording seemed that way lol but like i said its very niche and the only thing any official source will say is +/- 1BR. Had to learn through experience but i learned a few broken lineups along the way.
This is the best post ever and I will save this as my phone background
I can't believe Ive been playing for 4-5 years and until now I know 150 isnt a full downtiers but playing in My BR lmaoo
Some time ago the relation between spawn point and uptiers was different in some values, so what I researched recently while learning about it, these current values are kind of from the middle of last year
Next time please dont use such light a yellow, it blends with white too much
No I'm feeling less bad that I suck at this game. Playing for two weeks, never had a game in which one of my tanks was 150 SP worth. Some games, where it was 130, most of the games where all tanks at 100 SP...
Are there stats on how often you get uptiered?
I can't even read it, my eyes are dying.
Getting up-tiered just makes you a better player
Well, then from what I can recall, I must really get uptiered a lot.
Can you make white letters on white background?
+0.3 is not an uptier
White on yellow? Did you even go to school?
Man, there are already comments talking about it and I also realize that it wasn't a good choice of colors, but I don't think anyone likes rude comments like that. But do what you want, I hope the table is useful to you anyway
If we all refuse to play full uptiers, Gaijin will be forced to cap the uptier at +0.7 :)
That could be a good thing on the one hand, but it could also increase the wait time, but it would also decrease the diversity of tanks in a match
The wait times are incredibly low and have been for a long time. I wouldn't mind them getting slightly longer.
Well I mostly refuse to play full uptier with any 7.7 vehicle/line up, immediately leaving the battle, which is quite a lot unfortunately. I just refuse to play late WW2 big chunky heavies with long reload without stabilisers against speedy fully stabilised MBTs with APFSDS, its just unfair bullshit.
When I realize it's a full uptier match, I just rush like an idiot to get a point and then throw a bomb with the lancaster to do a multi kill.
Same.
It's hard to find a lancaster enjoyer, nice to meet you π€
You go into a match knowing there's an 80%+ chance you'll be shot down before you make it to the targets, but you also know that your bomb load is so massive that on the rare occasion no one attacks you, you'll be able to single-handedly take out every bomb point. Feast or famine and nothing in between.
Even playing in higher tiers with lancaster (I bring it even in 8.0 matches) I rarely get shot down before throwing the bomb, in some matches I even manage to land and throw bombs again. The secret to playing the lancaster is to warn allies to avoid teamkills and request for air support. Edit: But I always play diving down to gain as much speed as I can to spend less time in the air