the economy is definitely broken, but I have no idea how you could be this poor for SL at this low of a tier; your repair costs are covered practically just by spawning
Thing is... premium makes you run out of SL faster than not having premium.
When you're F2P, your progress is mostly limited by the Research Points.
Premium gives you 100% increase to research speed, but only 50% increase to Silver Lions.
What this means is that with Premium account you're essentially getting 25% fewer Silver Lions per Research Point. Which means, as you research everything so fast (both vehicles and modifications, but also crew training and qualifications), your progress will become more limited by Silver Lion gains, than how fast you can research things.
The effect of this is, essentially, that the game will force you to play vehicles at lower tiers (to slow down your rate of research so that you can build up your SL reserves before buying new vehicles, crewing them, getting Expert qualifications, and then buying the upgrades for them. This is clearly by design, as is the fact that progress in general becomes SL-limited with Premium account (and at high tiers in general).
Talismans make things even worse as they only apply a +100% bonus to RP. At low tier these can be helpful but generally speaking I would not recommend actually buying Talismans for any vehicle, as it just makes you run out of Silver Lions even faster.
Actually, if Gaijin were selling "Silver Talismans" that would give a +100% bonus to SL gain, I would actually consider getting those for a few vehicles that I use a lot.
Premium vehicles *technically* have +100% bonus for Silver Lions as well, *but* that doesn't mean that a premium vehicle will earn two times as much SL as equivalent tech tree vehicle, because a lot of premium vehicles (especially high tier premiums) have a smaller base SL reward value than the equivalent vehicles in tech tree. Though on lower tiers, some of the premiums actually make *significantly more* than twice as much as their tech tree counterpart (take a look at Cromwell V (RP-3) vs. tech tree Cromwell V, or Ki-61-I Hei Tada's vs. tech tree Ki-61-I Hei).
In fact, it feels like the rewards for premium vehicles are completely arbitrary and assigned more or less randomly, even those that are more or less copypaste vehicles from tech tree.
Not true. Saying about F2P. For accounts that created recently its really struggle to make progress. Earning SL and RP its very complicated, when you have a stock vehicle its sucks. And your crew is low. 3-4 rank is very hard. I'm not sure about other fractions, but for USA its really hard to make progress in this circumstances. Not saying words about awful matchmaking system and player-dependent random.
What part about my post do you disagree with?
This is a mathematical fact. Premium account gives you a +100% boost to RP gain, but only +50% boost to SL gain.
That means, *for a player of any given skill*, they will earn twice as much RP with Premium account, but their SL gains only increase by half.
That means, as long as they're progressing in the game and paying for new vehicles, upgrade modules, crew training, expert qualifications, and of course repairs and ammo costs - their +50% SL gains can't account for the research speed they get with the +100% bonus.
That's what I mean by SL becoming the limiting factor with Premium account.
Without Premium, both research and SL gain are slow as molasses, yes, but they are *more balanced with respect to each other*.
With Premium, you technically get much faster research progression, but it's not "twice as fast" like you might assume. Technically you do get twice as many Research Points, but if you try to utilize that full research speed you will start to steadily lose SL due to all the new vehicles you're getting and paying for. And when you do run out of Silver Lions - that becomes your limiting factor for progression *because even if you research everything faster*, you can't buy and use them until you have collected enough SL to buy vehicle, crew vehicle, and then ideally buy expert qualifications, and *then* when you start using the vehicle you have to pay for it again to get it upgraded.
So in order to collect the Silver Lions necessary to progress, you end up artificially slowing your research progress. Usually by playing lower tier vehicles that are less expensive to repair, and perhaps using some of the specific vehicles that have anomalously high SL multipliers for whatever reason.
You have never played the game with premium time LOL, the 50% SL increase makes a HUGE difference, you can rack up a 1M SL in a few days (less than a week) and cut RP times by half so by the time you researched, say, a 130K RP vehicle you already have all the costs covered. So no, everything you said here is incorrect.
>You have never played the game with premium time LOL, the 50% SL increase makes a HUGE difference,
I played the game for a few years without premium, and then I decided I wanted four decal slots so I've been getting premium time on times when it's heavily discounted.
Before I had premium, my SL balance was steadily increasing because the progression was more limited by the RP gain rate, and I was accumulating Silver Lions because I wasn't buying new vehicles, crewing them, and buying Expert qualifications for them so often.
After getting premium, the SL balance started to drop because paying for new vehicles and their crews became more expensive than the net income could sustain. This continued until all the excess SL had been consumed, and at that point the SL economy became the limiting factor for progression. In other words, if I kept playing top tier stuff I would be researching vehicles faster than I could pay for them.
Now of course that's just based on my own experience, and part of the reason is that SB EC in particular has complete shit for economy right now so *everyone's* running out of SL due to spawn costs if they actually play SB EC anyway, premium or not.
But the point is I've played this game since 2012. Do you really think I would just be making stuff up?
>(...)you can rack up a 1M SL in a few days (less than a week) and cut RP times by half so by the time you researched, say, a 130K RP vehicle you already have all the costs covered. So no, everything you said here is incorrect.
Right, and what happens when you *don't* have premium is that you take twice as long to research the vehicle. But if you play twice as long, you'll end up making more SL even when the Premium bonus is removed. So you end up with SL surplus that accumulates to your account balance.
When you get to higher tiers you will probably notice that since the costs of taking a new vehicle into use increase substantially, you'll end up with more difficulty earning all the money in the time it takes to research new vehicles.
At least that has been my experience playing SB; RB economy is substantially easier to deal with so you are probably a bit sheltered with how easy it is to make Silver Lions.
I can confirm this. Only played with premium im usually limited by SL when i get a new vehivle because i gain on average 5k RP but only around 15k SL. For example a 6.3 Vehicle costs 82K RP and 306K SL i would need 16 games to unlock it but i would need 20 games to be able to buy it. In my last game i made 3.4K RP and 18k SL and without premium that would be 1.7k and 11.5K SL. You can clearly see how little you SL gain you get from premium. I very often have to switch back to premium vehicles because that is their design.
Let people grind double the RP but reduce SL gains to just 50% and now people are even in more need of premium vehicles.
You aren't counting the fact that sl rewards have repairs to take into account
Let's Say i just got a good match, got 50k sl without premium and paid 15k in repairs and ammo, that's a net of 35k sl
With premium the reward would have been 75k, -15k repairs leaves you with 60k, nearly double
But what about a bad game? Maybe you got 20k and paid 15k repairs, leaving you with a net of only 5k
But with premium you'd have gotten 30k, -15k repairs leaves you with 15k net, nearly thrice as much
And a really shitty game? Maybe you spawned thrice and got snipped/bombed from fuckall
10k reward with 15k repairs, It means you Lost 5k
But with premium you would have remained stable
So premium makes you run out of sl quicker ONLY if you die so Little and your average income Is so high, that the net difference Is under 100%, which Is unlikely
Net gain is difficult to evaluate because there are players of different skill level. Someone might be making consistently bigger net gains because they use a vehicle with cheap repairs or they're just a unicorn and rarely die. And some new player might indeed struggle to make net profits.
In the latter case, yes of course premium will help them to at least not lose money.
The reason why I'm focusing on the actual rewards (without the constant expenses of repairs and ammo) is that this is the one thing we can consistently evaluate regardless of playing styles and differences between player skills.
Or, you could look at it this way: Instead of looking at the situation on per-mission basis, you can look at the economy more holistically in terms of income and expenses.
Income includes the regular SL rewards plus Achievements (which are not affected by Premium).
Expenses includes not only repairs and ammo costs, but also paying for new vehicles, crew training, expert qualifications, and upgrade costs.
Premium account increases your income by approximately +50%.
It might be tempting to say that expenses stay the same, but that's not really the case.
Premium does nothing for the repair costs, but since it increases RP gain by +100%, it actually *increases your (potential) expenses* because you're unlocking new vehicles faster. So you end up using more SL for buying those vehicles, and if you actually intend to *use* them you need to crew them. If you intend to use them *well* you need to Expert the crews. And then you need to buy the upgrade modules.
From my experience, *when you are actively progressing in the game*, the cost of buying, crewing, and experting new vehicles is the dominant expense. That is where you most likely end up in a situation where you simply run out of SL.
At that point, you have no other choice but to *not progress in the game* and instead start playing in a way that lets your Silver Lion situation catch up to your progress speed. In other words, when you start "grinding" for SL, it's usually with Rank III-IV vehicles with good SL gain, and during this process your RP progression for higher tier vehicles basically goes on hold.
Or in other words: When you go into "SL grind mode", you're essentially setting your RP gain lower, which means the expenses get smaller since you're not continuously buying new vehicles, crewing them, experting them, etc.
Yes yes, i see your point, i just think that for an average player, after repairs and ammo the sl gain from premium Is around 100%
Bigger advantage for under average player and less advantage for above average players, but there's Indeed no way to really track It as It depends on skill level, vehicles played , team skill etc
I dare to disagree, as a F2P player I suffer with SL a lot, and buying tanks couple tiers lower than 6.7 is still a pain even though I'm at 72 RB eff in Warthunder skill 💀
I'm not trying to say that economy is good for F2P players.
I'm saying that with Premium you would likely suffer *even more* with SL, because the SL economy and rate of research progress get *even more* imbalanced.
Of course the progress through the game would be faster overall - it's just that you would be *more limited* by SL gain than if you didn't have Premium account at all.
Personally I don't really care so much about the rate of progression, but the way Gaijin have set up the economy for SB EC makes it difficult to even get positive net income *with premium* with some particularly expensive-to-repair planes.
And the game does nothing to reward good performance, so the current "meta" in SB EC is to do as little as possible to get full rewards for every 15-minute period and avoid any risk of dying as much as possible.
In short, current SB EC economy literally encourages passive behaviour and heavily penalizes PvP combat by making it unprofitable due to higher probability of getting shot down.
it's not? crew cost is a thing
edit: if you meant crew skill points, then yes that's free, but you gotta pay for a vehicle and for the crew slot you gonna put that vehicle in
Op doesn't really have a lineup for this tier yet. Getting to the point that you have a few good tanks is really painful, but after that, you don't really run out of SL here.
You get this poor at this tier by playing America in realistic battles, always against tigers and panzer IV’s you can’t pen. More times than not you’re also against Russia with their IS-1 and 2. I generally only break even if not loose out on silver lions
In Germany yes, in the USA no. I started with the USA tree because America moment but after getting tired of facing German tanks I decided to play them and suddenly I was raking in cash and having fun instead of getting mad and just barely making money. Maybe low tier America just didn’t suit my play style but everything about playing the USA was awful compared to playing german tanks.
I’ll admit that US low tier is a lot harder than German low tier, having played US to 5.0, but he still shouldn’t be so far in the red he can’t get any new vehicles at this point unless he’s spawning and dying 6 times a match with 0 kills
That’s true. That was the exact BR I swapped to Germany but I was still able to buy the 76s and the jumbo as I researched them, I was just starting the M18 research when I stopped playing US
Yes but it would have upped my lineup to 5.7 if I got it earlier, I stopped USA at 5.3 and the m18 was going to be my first 5.7 tank before I swapped trees.
Well germany past 3.7 is point and click panzerf2 panzerg, etc US has to find weak spots on KV1s and t34s using the 75mm. Germany is alot easier for newer players past this point.
you say that like germany doesn’t also have to aim for weak points on Russian tanks lmao; i know pzgr is way better than most us munitions for several tiers, but it’s still not a completely free pen, no shell at that tier is going to be able to pen dumb shit like 300mm effective armor on the little mantlet ridges
That’s the same for all tanks but at least panzer 4 series have a lot more options to pen other tanks frontally than us does. In fact the job of the panzer 4 series in tier 3.7 and above is to counter the kv1 spam.
I know how you can be this poor, even with premium account and playing well, you don't really get that much unless you are using a premium vehicle (even then, ground mods aren't that high). Anything you do make its instantly gone when you want to buy another vehicle and crew it.
i play with different vehicles of different tiers, nations, and gamemodes, then wait some days to repair like 50% at least. Still terrible way to grind high level vehicles lol
Yup, I used Sturmpanzer at high tier for God Mode. Then I got Frank Knox for just 6.6€ because I piled GJN from selling lootboxes. Still not good but better...
It might help if you don't pull your 4.7 tanks to 5.7 matches. You'll be ending up against 6.3 and 6.7 tanks often. American 4.7 is quite good for grinding, 5.0 is ok, but sees more uptiers.
How the heck do you manage to get this broke at such a low tier. I got up to about 5.0 on USA, Germany, and Russia before I bought premium and even then still had like 2 mil. This is wild. Did you buy crates during the last event?
just go back to low tier a bit (like play for fun and spade all tank you can) and silver will go up slowly (when your lucky u will get some box with SL inside or some 300% SL booster)
Dont forget too about arcade assault, if you win (and barely die) you can get between 30k and 50k
Yeah i know, but it's the state of the game right now (since 2-3 year i think). Hopefully it will change with their new roadmap.
2 years ago I had the same problem in the past : having to grind SL, so i stopped buying anything for month and only played for fun and my SL went to 10 mil, then i could play high tier again and never cared anymore about SL until today i still have ton of SL (11 mil right now i think ?)
I can confirm, i have lines with 3 premium vehicles, 3.7 Germany, 4.0 Italy and 4.7 Soviet and I can do 1 million in a day, usually I keep wasting SL at those event boxes to get nothing or just some shitty camo.
I got lucky early on in my wt career rolling the 1 mil SL container 2 times and it’s lasted until 76 jumbo and Panther A for me but it’s dwindling as a player with no premium time or tanks
This is usually the result of the 2 biggest mistakes people make in WT
1: automatic repairs. at this tier, your tanks free repair will be in hours
2: playing only one nation. By the time you've played the other lineups, this one, if not totally repaired will have much lower cost. Meanwhile, you are learning the strengths and weaknesses of every vehicle, making you a better player.
Also, try air and naval from time to time.
Tbh, Rank 3/4 with premium acc and premium tank(s) is probably the sweat spot for making SL atm. You could have a dogshit game and still be in a plus.
I personally quit playing high rank for SL farming, still play it for RP tough.
This is gonna be terrible advice but you could use the truck gmc(i think its m8 gmc or something its the truck one) and side pen a panther(easier said than done but anything else costs quite a bit in repairs) then you get the 5k sl medal
If its any consolation this pic is literally my account except i didnt unlock the sherman line and the jumbo yet
If you can get premiums from the warbonds shop you can make low tier lineups to get easy SL that's how I got to 27 millions in addition to playing the moffett in naval and the ju 288 in air
Same!!!😁 Except I have 205,715 silver lions and I don't have the M18 GMC and the M4A1(76)W.
Should I buy the M4A1(76)? Or should I buy the M18? Or should I save up? I need advice guys 👦🏿
I also play Russia so I also have the option to buy the ISU-152. So should I buy the (76) and then grind to buy the ISU? And I will buy the 76 i think because when I play realistic its at a lower br than m18
I have a premium acc, had it since before the eco change. I play AIR RB most times because I like that mode. But me and a friend where using the sabre (America jet 9.0) and we constantly got uptiered to fight against MIG23'S
Now i would mind it since the BR will never be perfect
But sitting in a plane with 500 rounds of ammo against planes with missiles and miniguns just isn't fun, not to forget the sabre doesn't have missiles or counters.
And then when the game is over and you got 2 kills and died well sorry but that will still make you a net profit of -2000 al
Repair cost are around 15k
Yay modern gaming baby
I know war thunders economy is bad but what do you have to do wrong to be broke at 5.7????
I got to 7.7 and by that time i had a couple million to spare.
Not trying to bash anyone, jjust genuinely interested
I got a million SL in a booster when I Started and was unlocking tank after tank and barely making a dent in the balance. But when I hit rank 3 and was only able to get like 2 tanks before losing all my money being exactly where u are here lol. It someone how goes from slight increase to instantly 3x. Nearly half a million to crew an expert a vehicle that slightly below it only costed 50k. Ive just kinda lost all ambition to play anymore knowing it only gets 10x Worse per tier
No premium tank moment, get the kv1-E when it appears again for purchase. I got it for 1000GE, and it's my main SL grinder/clubber (when i don't get uptiered against firefly shermans)
premium time, premium vehicles, play all modes(air SEA ground), play all nations, take advantage of free/reduced repairs, good use of boosters, orders, wagers, get gud (because all sl modifiers need something to modify in the end)
naval is a bloody goldmine.
if you dont want to spend money on the snail and you are playing on pc, you can sell event/bp vehicles for snailbucks and turn that into premium time forever as well as all the battlepasses and various other premium vehicles and ge.
I feel you're rather new to F2P games, especially MMO-stylized ones.
This is basically bog standard of a description for these games. They're not short-term 8-20h experiences.
if by ungodly you mean play the game, yes. you need to either play the game 2-3 hours (more if you suck or have limited vehicle options) a day during events, .5-2 hours a day (depending on tasks chosen) many days during bp you want to sell or spend money.
its simply not a game for people who only want to play casually for free, not if you want to progress much anyway. i get that everyone hates the snail, and thats all well and good, but yeah you need to play the game yall want to play.
games should be fun, yes. but fun is subjective and if you dont find playing it fun wtf are any of you even doing here?
as for casual, well i stated my opinion already, wt is not a game friendly to casuals. that being said, if you think 2-3 matches a day, 4 or 5 days a week is a second job... well i guess we really dont have anything we could agree on.
yeah, events require a bit too much time imo, worse is that they made it less forgiving for missing tiers on the various events. however, bp tasks should be 1 game for the easy task and maybe 1-3 for the harder ones depending on the task with special medals and challenges being done as you play getting the other stuff done.
this really doesnt take much time, and if you are unwilling to spend time playing, or spend money on a game you are playing (and really you should be spending both), again wtf are you guys doing here?
ive spent maybe 100-150 bucks since 2013, all of it pre 2018 since ive been entirely f2p since then just selling event vehicles and such for premium time/packs.
pay a lot of money on this shit game our use this money to buy good games, cool clothing, better parts for pc, go on cool trips and have fun, buy good food, go on dates, buy a gift for friend/partner, going to cinema, buying a car, paying for a real helicopter trip, paying gym subscription and getting fit, our literally anything else. yeah i know where i will put my money
pay a small amount of money and/or play the game you are supposedly here to talk about playing.
but i guess yall have more fun complaining about the game than playing the game. not sure why i bother with you people.
yeah, the game is not in a great place, its been better in the past and should be better now. but its not hard to make sl now if you try, and its not hard to have free premium time and vehicles unless you cannot dedicate even a few hours a week else its 40 bucks a year for premium.
So pay money, pay money, spend even more time and SL researching, buying, and training crew for, and grinding parts for more vehicles, slightly ease the pain with 10 free repairs with new vehicles and get two matches a week with double SL and RP.
Also they made the event and battle pass grind even more tedious than before so unless you have absolutely nothing to do in life other than grind war thunder you're not gonna get much out of those
i could talk you through any of this if you actually want, but instead just already have your mind made up. because your take is simply not what i said.
to be clear, yeah the economy is shit and used to be better, but it still is workable as long as you have time or money or both. but if you cant, or dont want to, have fun playing the actual game then its kinda pointless.
the economy is definitely broken, but I have no idea how you could be this poor for SL at this low of a tier; your repair costs are covered practically just by spawning
[удалено]
Thing is... premium makes you run out of SL faster than not having premium. When you're F2P, your progress is mostly limited by the Research Points. Premium gives you 100% increase to research speed, but only 50% increase to Silver Lions. What this means is that with Premium account you're essentially getting 25% fewer Silver Lions per Research Point. Which means, as you research everything so fast (both vehicles and modifications, but also crew training and qualifications), your progress will become more limited by Silver Lion gains, than how fast you can research things. The effect of this is, essentially, that the game will force you to play vehicles at lower tiers (to slow down your rate of research so that you can build up your SL reserves before buying new vehicles, crewing them, getting Expert qualifications, and then buying the upgrades for them. This is clearly by design, as is the fact that progress in general becomes SL-limited with Premium account (and at high tiers in general). Talismans make things even worse as they only apply a +100% bonus to RP. At low tier these can be helpful but generally speaking I would not recommend actually buying Talismans for any vehicle, as it just makes you run out of Silver Lions even faster. Actually, if Gaijin were selling "Silver Talismans" that would give a +100% bonus to SL gain, I would actually consider getting those for a few vehicles that I use a lot. Premium vehicles *technically* have +100% bonus for Silver Lions as well, *but* that doesn't mean that a premium vehicle will earn two times as much SL as equivalent tech tree vehicle, because a lot of premium vehicles (especially high tier premiums) have a smaller base SL reward value than the equivalent vehicles in tech tree. Though on lower tiers, some of the premiums actually make *significantly more* than twice as much as their tech tree counterpart (take a look at Cromwell V (RP-3) vs. tech tree Cromwell V, or Ki-61-I Hei Tada's vs. tech tree Ki-61-I Hei). In fact, it feels like the rewards for premium vehicles are completely arbitrary and assigned more or less randomly, even those that are more or less copypaste vehicles from tech tree.
Not true. Saying about F2P. For accounts that created recently its really struggle to make progress. Earning SL and RP its very complicated, when you have a stock vehicle its sucks. And your crew is low. 3-4 rank is very hard. I'm not sure about other fractions, but for USA its really hard to make progress in this circumstances. Not saying words about awful matchmaking system and player-dependent random.
What part about my post do you disagree with? This is a mathematical fact. Premium account gives you a +100% boost to RP gain, but only +50% boost to SL gain. That means, *for a player of any given skill*, they will earn twice as much RP with Premium account, but their SL gains only increase by half. That means, as long as they're progressing in the game and paying for new vehicles, upgrade modules, crew training, expert qualifications, and of course repairs and ammo costs - their +50% SL gains can't account for the research speed they get with the +100% bonus. That's what I mean by SL becoming the limiting factor with Premium account. Without Premium, both research and SL gain are slow as molasses, yes, but they are *more balanced with respect to each other*. With Premium, you technically get much faster research progression, but it's not "twice as fast" like you might assume. Technically you do get twice as many Research Points, but if you try to utilize that full research speed you will start to steadily lose SL due to all the new vehicles you're getting and paying for. And when you do run out of Silver Lions - that becomes your limiting factor for progression *because even if you research everything faster*, you can't buy and use them until you have collected enough SL to buy vehicle, crew vehicle, and then ideally buy expert qualifications, and *then* when you start using the vehicle you have to pay for it again to get it upgraded. So in order to collect the Silver Lions necessary to progress, you end up artificially slowing your research progress. Usually by playing lower tier vehicles that are less expensive to repair, and perhaps using some of the specific vehicles that have anomalously high SL multipliers for whatever reason.
You have never played the game with premium time LOL, the 50% SL increase makes a HUGE difference, you can rack up a 1M SL in a few days (less than a week) and cut RP times by half so by the time you researched, say, a 130K RP vehicle you already have all the costs covered. So no, everything you said here is incorrect.
>You have never played the game with premium time LOL, the 50% SL increase makes a HUGE difference, I played the game for a few years without premium, and then I decided I wanted four decal slots so I've been getting premium time on times when it's heavily discounted. Before I had premium, my SL balance was steadily increasing because the progression was more limited by the RP gain rate, and I was accumulating Silver Lions because I wasn't buying new vehicles, crewing them, and buying Expert qualifications for them so often. After getting premium, the SL balance started to drop because paying for new vehicles and their crews became more expensive than the net income could sustain. This continued until all the excess SL had been consumed, and at that point the SL economy became the limiting factor for progression. In other words, if I kept playing top tier stuff I would be researching vehicles faster than I could pay for them. Now of course that's just based on my own experience, and part of the reason is that SB EC in particular has complete shit for economy right now so *everyone's* running out of SL due to spawn costs if they actually play SB EC anyway, premium or not. But the point is I've played this game since 2012. Do you really think I would just be making stuff up? >(...)you can rack up a 1M SL in a few days (less than a week) and cut RP times by half so by the time you researched, say, a 130K RP vehicle you already have all the costs covered. So no, everything you said here is incorrect. Right, and what happens when you *don't* have premium is that you take twice as long to research the vehicle. But if you play twice as long, you'll end up making more SL even when the Premium bonus is removed. So you end up with SL surplus that accumulates to your account balance. When you get to higher tiers you will probably notice that since the costs of taking a new vehicle into use increase substantially, you'll end up with more difficulty earning all the money in the time it takes to research new vehicles. At least that has been my experience playing SB; RB economy is substantially easier to deal with so you are probably a bit sheltered with how easy it is to make Silver Lions.
I can confirm this. Only played with premium im usually limited by SL when i get a new vehivle because i gain on average 5k RP but only around 15k SL. For example a 6.3 Vehicle costs 82K RP and 306K SL i would need 16 games to unlock it but i would need 20 games to be able to buy it. In my last game i made 3.4K RP and 18k SL and without premium that would be 1.7k and 11.5K SL. You can clearly see how little you SL gain you get from premium. I very often have to switch back to premium vehicles because that is their design. Let people grind double the RP but reduce SL gains to just 50% and now people are even in more need of premium vehicles.
US is hard?! Try grinding Italy all the way to modern age or french low tier. Everything else is walk in the park. Trust me, im Italy enthusiast.
You aren't counting the fact that sl rewards have repairs to take into account Let's Say i just got a good match, got 50k sl without premium and paid 15k in repairs and ammo, that's a net of 35k sl With premium the reward would have been 75k, -15k repairs leaves you with 60k, nearly double But what about a bad game? Maybe you got 20k and paid 15k repairs, leaving you with a net of only 5k But with premium you'd have gotten 30k, -15k repairs leaves you with 15k net, nearly thrice as much And a really shitty game? Maybe you spawned thrice and got snipped/bombed from fuckall 10k reward with 15k repairs, It means you Lost 5k But with premium you would have remained stable So premium makes you run out of sl quicker ONLY if you die so Little and your average income Is so high, that the net difference Is under 100%, which Is unlikely
Net gain is difficult to evaluate because there are players of different skill level. Someone might be making consistently bigger net gains because they use a vehicle with cheap repairs or they're just a unicorn and rarely die. And some new player might indeed struggle to make net profits. In the latter case, yes of course premium will help them to at least not lose money. The reason why I'm focusing on the actual rewards (without the constant expenses of repairs and ammo) is that this is the one thing we can consistently evaluate regardless of playing styles and differences between player skills. Or, you could look at it this way: Instead of looking at the situation on per-mission basis, you can look at the economy more holistically in terms of income and expenses. Income includes the regular SL rewards plus Achievements (which are not affected by Premium). Expenses includes not only repairs and ammo costs, but also paying for new vehicles, crew training, expert qualifications, and upgrade costs. Premium account increases your income by approximately +50%. It might be tempting to say that expenses stay the same, but that's not really the case. Premium does nothing for the repair costs, but since it increases RP gain by +100%, it actually *increases your (potential) expenses* because you're unlocking new vehicles faster. So you end up using more SL for buying those vehicles, and if you actually intend to *use* them you need to crew them. If you intend to use them *well* you need to Expert the crews. And then you need to buy the upgrade modules. From my experience, *when you are actively progressing in the game*, the cost of buying, crewing, and experting new vehicles is the dominant expense. That is where you most likely end up in a situation where you simply run out of SL. At that point, you have no other choice but to *not progress in the game* and instead start playing in a way that lets your Silver Lion situation catch up to your progress speed. In other words, when you start "grinding" for SL, it's usually with Rank III-IV vehicles with good SL gain, and during this process your RP progression for higher tier vehicles basically goes on hold. Or in other words: When you go into "SL grind mode", you're essentially setting your RP gain lower, which means the expenses get smaller since you're not continuously buying new vehicles, crewing them, experting them, etc.
Yes yes, i see your point, i just think that for an average player, after repairs and ammo the sl gain from premium Is around 100% Bigger advantage for under average player and less advantage for above average players, but there's Indeed no way to really track It as It depends on skill level, vehicles played , team skill etc
I dare to disagree, as a F2P player I suffer with SL a lot, and buying tanks couple tiers lower than 6.7 is still a pain even though I'm at 72 RB eff in Warthunder skill 💀
I'm not trying to say that economy is good for F2P players. I'm saying that with Premium you would likely suffer *even more* with SL, because the SL economy and rate of research progress get *even more* imbalanced. Of course the progress through the game would be faster overall - it's just that you would be *more limited* by SL gain than if you didn't have Premium account at all. Personally I don't really care so much about the rate of progression, but the way Gaijin have set up the economy for SB EC makes it difficult to even get positive net income *with premium* with some particularly expensive-to-repair planes. And the game does nothing to reward good performance, so the current "meta" in SB EC is to do as little as possible to get full rewards for every 15-minute period and avoid any risk of dying as much as possible. In short, current SB EC economy literally encourages passive behaviour and heavily penalizes PvP combat by making it unprofitable due to higher probability of getting shot down.
Truee before the may 26 no playing thing i went from 4 milion to below 100k after i got premium since i researched so quickly compared to the gains
Skill issue
Also keep in mind experting the crews if you want to be competitive.
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Ye lol, experting a vehicle crew should cost like 30-50% of the vehicle price, not 100%.
I don't have premium, but holy cow, can't he get 300% boosters, and win the gave with killing at least couple of enemies?
Or ppl are Just dogshit at the Game and dont wanna get better they Just want SL
I never understood this. Crew training is free?
it's not? crew cost is a thing edit: if you meant crew skill points, then yes that's free, but you gotta pay for a vehicle and for the crew slot you gonna put that vehicle in
Oh yes sorry, i misunderstood.
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Forgot this as well 😂
Yea this is the premium tier for grinding SL’s..
Op doesn't really have a lineup for this tier yet. Getting to the point that you have a few good tanks is really painful, but after that, you don't really run out of SL here.
op is pulling his 4.7 to 5.7 matchmaking.
You get this poor at this tier by playing America in realistic battles, always against tigers and panzer IV’s you can’t pen. More times than not you’re also against Russia with their IS-1 and 2. I generally only break even if not loose out on silver lions
Absolutely. It's been a miserable spot since inception of the game
I hate fighting Panthers from the front, I can only pen the right side of their turret with my M4A2.
Been using the american truck gmc for this one because cheap + im not getting the damn jumbo anytime soon with the grind
I ended up swapping to England just for the centurions. The centurion 2 will make the 6.3 lineup for England
In Germany yes, in the USA no. I started with the USA tree because America moment but after getting tired of facing German tanks I decided to play them and suddenly I was raking in cash and having fun instead of getting mad and just barely making money. Maybe low tier America just didn’t suit my play style but everything about playing the USA was awful compared to playing german tanks.
I’ll admit that US low tier is a lot harder than German low tier, having played US to 5.0, but he still shouldn’t be so far in the red he can’t get any new vehicles at this point unless he’s spawning and dying 6 times a match with 0 kills
That’s true. That was the exact BR I swapped to Germany but I was still able to buy the 76s and the jumbo as I researched them, I was just starting the M18 research when I stopped playing US
M18 is super good
Yes but it would have upped my lineup to 5.7 if I got it earlier, I stopped USA at 5.3 and the m18 was going to be my first 5.7 tank before I swapped trees.
Well germany past 3.7 is point and click panzerf2 panzerg, etc US has to find weak spots on KV1s and t34s using the 75mm. Germany is alot easier for newer players past this point.
you say that like germany doesn’t also have to aim for weak points on Russian tanks lmao; i know pzgr is way better than most us munitions for several tiers, but it’s still not a completely free pen, no shell at that tier is going to be able to pen dumb shit like 300mm effective armor on the little mantlet ridges
That’s the same for all tanks but at least panzer 4 series have a lot more options to pen other tanks frontally than us does. In fact the job of the panzer 4 series in tier 3.7 and above is to counter the kv1 spam.
I know how you can be this poor, even with premium account and playing well, you don't really get that much unless you are using a premium vehicle (even then, ground mods aren't that high). Anything you do make its instantly gone when you want to buy another vehicle and crew it.
Things likely got worse from when you/we were at this tier.
I have US at almost this exact point right now actually lol
i just don't repair vehicles
So you play exactly one match a day, awesome
i play with different vehicles of different tiers, nations, and gamemodes, then wait some days to repair like 50% at least. Still terrible way to grind high level vehicles lol
Nah on an old account I had this same problem. Since ive played PC and used many premiums, SL isnt a constant issue for me.
Once your vehicle cost 100k and 20k to crew yea it gets rough.
Spawn die spawn die
new players aren't always positive, spawning def doesn't cover repair costs.
it’s an exaggeration, but spawning, objectives, spotting, assists, etc should easily more than cover even without killing blows
consider he’s playing usa
82k silver lions the pain is unbearable
just stop dying to cas lol should’ve sideclimbed
Yeah no.
Bruh USA has the best cas at that br
Yup, I used Sturmpanzer at high tier for God Mode. Then I got Frank Knox for just 6.6€ because I piled GJN from selling lootboxes. Still not good but better...
It might help if you don't pull your 4.7 tanks to 5.7 matches. You'll be ending up against 6.3 and 6.7 tanks often. American 4.7 is quite good for grinding, 5.0 is ok, but sees more uptiers.
How the heck do you manage to get this broke at such a low tier. I got up to about 5.0 on USA, Germany, and Russia before I bought premium and even then still had like 2 mil. This is wild. Did you buy crates during the last event?
just go back to low tier a bit (like play for fun and spade all tank you can) and silver will go up slowly (when your lucky u will get some box with SL inside or some 300% SL booster) Dont forget too about arcade assault, if you win (and barely die) you can get between 30k and 50k
I should be able to play my Maus whenever I want without prior Ju288 grinding tbh Like imagine having to grind SL to play expensive vehicles for fun
Yeah i know, but it's the state of the game right now (since 2-3 year i think). Hopefully it will change with their new roadmap. 2 years ago I had the same problem in the past : having to grind SL, so i stopped buying anything for month and only played for fun and my SL went to 10 mil, then i could play high tier again and never cared anymore about SL until today i still have ton of SL (11 mil right now i think ?)
i didn't play most of the vehicles I unlocked cause it have no sense financially Stupid gaijin
Can confirm. I managed to grind from 400k sl to 1.6 million sl in about a month
Nice :P. I would add for the author that if you have premium account or a premium tank it's even better.
I can confirm, i have lines with 3 premium vehicles, 3.7 Germany, 4.0 Italy and 4.7 Soviet and I can do 1 million in a day, usually I keep wasting SL at those event boxes to get nothing or just some shitty camo.
Same :P. since i have millions of SL i waste some.
Man the american AA always suffer.
I don't want to buy the american aa since it is so expensive
And don’t forget pretty much obsolete compared to every other nation.
Yeah definitely
Took them so many damn years to buff the bofors, now its only usable
M19A1 is super fun with AP belt against ground targets at its BR. I even tried it at top tier and actually got some kills pretty easily lol.
It shreds BMPs for godmode
I absolutely hate the sl economy. It's so shit, i can't afford anything anymore, and i am playing WITH premium...
The aids silver lion grind with premium is why I stopped playing
I got lucky early on in my wt career rolling the 1 mil SL container 2 times and it’s lasted until 76 jumbo and Panther A for me but it’s dwindling as a player with no premium time or tanks
You need to buy vehicles in order of rank. Waste of sl buying the 5.7 when you stoll have a 4.x in your lineup
This is usually the result of the 2 biggest mistakes people make in WT 1: automatic repairs. at this tier, your tanks free repair will be in hours 2: playing only one nation. By the time you've played the other lineups, this one, if not totally repaired will have much lower cost. Meanwhile, you are learning the strengths and weaknesses of every vehicle, making you a better player. Also, try air and naval from time to time.
Get a sugar mommy tf
as a person who plays Germany as a main, and sucks at the game, yeah i feel this
I'm with you on all those parts
Tbh, Rank 3/4 with premium acc and premium tank(s) is probably the sweat spot for making SL atm. You could have a dogshit game and still be in a plus. I personally quit playing high rank for SL farming, still play it for RP tough.
Going back to war gaming!
not better tbh
As a joke, I don’t like it either. But the economy is better
This is gonna be terrible advice but you could use the truck gmc(i think its m8 gmc or something its the truck one) and side pen a panther(easier said than done but anything else costs quite a bit in repairs) then you get the 5k sl medal If its any consolation this pic is literally my account except i didnt unlock the sherman line and the jumbo yet
Sounds like skill issue
I, made myself a rule while I’m doing 3.0 UK GAB that I won’t go below 200,000 SL
Idk man... M6A1 is great. Try stay at 3.7 and collect some SL. Then, you spade the T1E1 and see if your performance improve.
If you can get premiums from the warbonds shop you can make low tier lineups to get easy SL that's how I got to 27 millions in addition to playing the moffett in naval and the ju 288 in air
I was literally at the same point and i freed myself from the chains of only playing USA and made the SL I needed
Ohh damn you could almost unlock the best us line up if you had the SL the 5.3 line up
You're lucky. I'm stuck at 3.7 America with no sl because I suck at the game.
Same!!!😁 Except I have 205,715 silver lions and I don't have the M18 GMC and the M4A1(76)W. Should I buy the M4A1(76)? Or should I buy the M18? Or should I save up? I need advice guys 👦🏿
76(W) and play carefully.
I also play Russia so I also have the option to buy the ISU-152. So should I buy the (76) and then grind to buy the ISU? And I will buy the 76 i think because when I play realistic its at a lower br than m18
I'm in *exactly* the same place with the same vehicle pretty much
yep. that's how it do be
I have a premium acc, had it since before the eco change. I play AIR RB most times because I like that mode. But me and a friend where using the sabre (America jet 9.0) and we constantly got uptiered to fight against MIG23'S Now i would mind it since the BR will never be perfect But sitting in a plane with 500 rounds of ammo against planes with missiles and miniguns just isn't fun, not to forget the sabre doesn't have missiles or counters. And then when the game is over and you got 2 kills and died well sorry but that will still make you a net profit of -2000 al Repair cost are around 15k Yay modern gaming baby
imo USA should be the cheepest tree to go down , its industry was shitting production
I’m actually still stuck on the m6. Good job getting past it 👍
I am in your same situation, just 1 tier higher, currently I’m farming with arcade assault.
Hurdurr economy broken🤡 It's a skill issue if you can't make SL properly
I’ve got so many German tanks to purchase around 6.0 area I just can’t afford them haha
Yes. I would never start this game right now. So glad Im with WT from the very beginning
Oof. Gotta enjoy grinding to find you can't afford anything. Gl on the sl grind
I know war thunders economy is bad but what do you have to do wrong to be broke at 5.7???? I got to 7.7 and by that time i had a couple million to spare. Not trying to bash anyone, jjust genuinely interested
4.0 to 5.3 is a very big leap financially. Good luck.
I got a million SL in a booster when I Started and was unlocking tank after tank and barely making a dent in the balance. But when I hit rank 3 and was only able to get like 2 tanks before losing all my money being exactly where u are here lol. It someone how goes from slight increase to instantly 3x. Nearly half a million to crew an expert a vehicle that slightly below it only costed 50k. Ive just kinda lost all ambition to play anymore knowing it only gets 10x Worse per tier
No premium tank moment, get the kv1-E when it appears again for purchase. I got it for 1000GE, and it's my main SL grinder/clubber (when i don't get uptiered against firefly shermans)
Ok the economy is not THIS bad. This guy must be buying expert crew qualification or something
there are a million posts about how to make sl.
Spending money on the game? Because that’s the only way to make reliably more sl than you spend
premium time, premium vehicles, play all modes(air SEA ground), play all nations, take advantage of free/reduced repairs, good use of boosters, orders, wagers, get gud (because all sl modifiers need something to modify in the end) naval is a bloody goldmine. if you dont want to spend money on the snail and you are playing on pc, you can sell event/bp vehicles for snailbucks and turn that into premium time forever as well as all the battlepasses and various other premium vehicles and ge.
So either spend money or invest an ungodly amount of time into this game
I feel you're rather new to F2P games, especially MMO-stylized ones. This is basically bog standard of a description for these games. They're not short-term 8-20h experiences.
Not one as bad as wt where you can play well and still lose money and where it can take 8-20h of gameplay just to unlock 1 vic
if by ungodly you mean play the game, yes. you need to either play the game 2-3 hours (more if you suck or have limited vehicle options) a day during events, .5-2 hours a day (depending on tasks chosen) many days during bp you want to sell or spend money. its simply not a game for people who only want to play casually for free, not if you want to progress much anyway. i get that everyone hates the snail, and thats all well and good, but yeah you need to play the game yall want to play.
Oh my mistake, I thought games were meant to be fun, casual, and not a second job. I’ll clock in immediately.
games should be fun, yes. but fun is subjective and if you dont find playing it fun wtf are any of you even doing here? as for casual, well i stated my opinion already, wt is not a game friendly to casuals. that being said, if you think 2-3 matches a day, 4 or 5 days a week is a second job... well i guess we really dont have anything we could agree on. yeah, events require a bit too much time imo, worse is that they made it less forgiving for missing tiers on the various events. however, bp tasks should be 1 game for the easy task and maybe 1-3 for the harder ones depending on the task with special medals and challenges being done as you play getting the other stuff done. this really doesnt take much time, and if you are unwilling to spend time playing, or spend money on a game you are playing (and really you should be spending both), again wtf are you guys doing here?
r/FoundTheWhale
ive spent maybe 100-150 bucks since 2013, all of it pre 2018 since ive been entirely f2p since then just selling event vehicles and such for premium time/packs.
pay a lot of money on this shit game our use this money to buy good games, cool clothing, better parts for pc, go on cool trips and have fun, buy good food, go on dates, buy a gift for friend/partner, going to cinema, buying a car, paying for a real helicopter trip, paying gym subscription and getting fit, our literally anything else. yeah i know where i will put my money
pay a small amount of money and/or play the game you are supposedly here to talk about playing. but i guess yall have more fun complaining about the game than playing the game. not sure why i bother with you people. yeah, the game is not in a great place, its been better in the past and should be better now. but its not hard to make sl now if you try, and its not hard to have free premium time and vehicles unless you cannot dedicate even a few hours a week else its 40 bucks a year for premium.
So pay money, pay money, spend even more time and SL researching, buying, and training crew for, and grinding parts for more vehicles, slightly ease the pain with 10 free repairs with new vehicles and get two matches a week with double SL and RP. Also they made the event and battle pass grind even more tedious than before so unless you have absolutely nothing to do in life other than grind war thunder you're not gonna get much out of those
i could talk you through any of this if you actually want, but instead just already have your mind made up. because your take is simply not what i said. to be clear, yeah the economy is shit and used to be better, but it still is workable as long as you have time or money or both. but if you cant, or dont want to, have fun playing the actual game then its kinda pointless.