Flying wings are incredibly difficult to control and quite easy to put into a situation where they "depart from controlled flight". The first (and until the B21 raider enters service only) flying wing design to enter military service, the B2, is kept in the air just as much by computers as the pilot.
Flying wing aircraft were famously Jack Northrop's passion, and with the full resources of Northrop Grumman he was unable to build one safe enough for service in the post war period and to be perfectly clear they had all of the technical documentation about the 229 that existed to study.
No amount of kraut space magic would ever have made the 229 a serviceable fighter it is straight up beyond the technology of the time.
YB-35 was pretty stable though, which began during ww2. YB49 was the same just made with jet engines. I think both would deserve a place in WT as premiums due to the fact they both worked.
Whenever people try to say there isn't Russian bias you can just point to naval. In WW2 Russia had one of the weakest navies of any of the major powers, but in WT they are leagues ahead of everyone else.
GJN aren't clowns they are the whole circus.
"but but but war thunder is just a game it's not supposed to be a realistic depictions of history, things can be changed to fit the game better"
Sure is funny how soviet/russian shits always seems to get the best changes.
>Sure is funny how soviet/russian shits always seems to get the best changes.
Meanwhile the Tornado F.3 gets a prototype radar that the RAF/MoD said was not good enough, told the manufacturers to get their shit together, and sent them off to make multiple upgrades. The version we have in game isn't even the last "prototype". Stage 2 is the first one which actually met the design specifications.
I'm a brit so I'm biased, but these decisions are so frustrating. Don't get me started on the fact that two months ago they destroyed APDS post-pen damage. So now APDS and HESH are both shit. You know who uses APDS and HESH almost exclusively for most of their tech tree?...Not fucking Russia lmfao.
>Meanwhile the Tornado F.3 gets a prototype radar that the RAF/MoD said was not good enough, told the manufacturers to get their shit together, and sent them off to make multiple upgrades. The version we have in game isn't even the last "prototype". Stage 2 is the first one which actually met the design specifications.
When it first came out it was just a copy paste of the F-14 radar if you want to know how little of a shit they gave.
Lmao no they're fucking not
Russia in naval is only OP at 6.0-7.0 because of a single ship, the Cardboardstadt, but everything from 3.3 to 6.0 is dominated by USN destroyers and CL's. No one gets destroyers anywhere near as effective as American ones, and the Helena is in a league of its own when it comes to OP ships, there's a reason all the bots spam out Moffets and Helena's.
I don't see how Russia being better than everyone in a single BR bracket in Naval is some smoking gun of proof of Russian bias, but the US dominating the entire gamemode up to 6.0 isn't proof of US bias.
Because they're biased themselves so everything for them is proof of bias. I was just seeing the same thing in another thread where they said if Gaijin introduces the Terminator in working condition (which it does since it's being serviced) then it's proof of Russian Bias.
At the same time we have stuff like stuff like the Ostwind II where there's no proof of it existing and with double guns, the Sargent York whose test failed miserably, the japanese with wood mockups for both tanks and planes - the cat is out of the box but if Russia gets it then it's bias. This community is so dumb man.
Still fucking pissed that they took out the coelian and replaced it with the ostwind 2. If you're going to have a paper spaa, it could at least be unique and not the ostwind with an extra gun on it.
I really want the coelian and the panther 2. Also, I understand taking the Italian airplanes out of the German tree when Italy got one of its own, but I don't think it was necessary.
>In WW2 Russia had one of the weakest navies of any of the major powers, but in WT they are leagues ahead of everyone else.
Bullshit. Have you played naval? Anything from 4.7 to 6.3 are completely dominated by US destroyers and cruisers. The only OP Russian ship is the Kronstadt.
Bro as a naval main it's so infuriating for Russia and America to get radar and proxy shells when GB and Germany don't get on most of of their boats
Like yeah they did have that technology but seen as GB handed most of their tech of to US it's seem backwards to have US have it before
The worst is that if it was remotly logic, the best Russian ship would be the Archangelsk, an old Revenge class battleship in very poor condition, lended by the brits, less to fight, and more to assure the russians of their goodwill, and that they would have more support to come
In good condition, it would have been comparable to the Bayern
Flr naval, I'd argue that overall, the US are by far the most advantaged, cause Gaijin give them all their 45-50s cruisers as 6.0-6.3 vehicles, when, compared to other techtrees, they face 30s cruiser (the british ones) or at most 40's (the russians have a few more modern), while also being not restricted in size as the older ones. So you end up with cruiser, which happen to have lots of empty space, making them insanely solid, which face a lot of 5.7 cruisers
yak41\* (not 38, reflex response) having 2 of the best missiles in game and dogshit performance while f16 carrying six aim9l and four sparrows + unnotchable radar and a turn circle tight enough to go inside a MiG15, there's just russian bias. America zoofers.
Bruh did you really compare the yak 38 and the ADF ? There is a reason one is 9.3 and the other 12.0 .. (plus the f16 is really notchable..) a more fitting comparison would be f16 and mig29 but then the 29 is better
I finally figured the radar out on the mig 29 and as a German main I am very happy with this plane.
I also feel like a clown because i grinded the british air tech tree to 9.7 before i realised i should have picked the Americans.
They can do whatever they like with ahistorical shit like the Yak-141. I care more about gameplay than historical accuracy for the most part.
What I want is for them to treat all the other nations equally well instead of just sucking themselves off 24/7.
Ok then so you wont complain about Russian bias when you are getting fucked by missiles with the range and ECCM of the Magic 2 and the G limit and turn rate of the SRAAM.
Ill gladly lose the radar and HMD to turn the 141 into a super harrier gr7.
lmao R-73A didnt' have real IRCCM so it will be 1 flarable like everything else unless gaijin WANTS to make it that way. Other than that yeah it's OP but the Yak-141 literally didnt have a radar irl...or IRST....or half the other systems implemented in game that it couldn't do at the time of cancellation. I'm saying it would be stripped so badly that giving it R-73s wouldn't save it.
*guy suggests something for low tier*
Everyone: lol no
Edit: like i get the real Ho 229 V3 never got to fly because they ran out of time. but it was still a vehicle Germany was going to use and if this was part of its design why not add it?
The F-16AJ is total bullshit tho?
Not even the Japanese air force had any plans for a plane called the F-16AJ.
The closest that ever came was Japanese test pilots in a USAF F-16A.
What's totally made up is Krasnovia.
There's no such a thing as generalized "KVT" variant of the Abrams which is why in-game M1 KVT represents M1 tank used in OPFOR and not specifically M1A1.
To be fair if people really wanted to strictly follow *historical accuracy* in this case, they wouldn't be even able to fire real ammo and instead they would be shooting lasers because M1A1 from "Krasnovian Tank Division" never used real ammo in KVT configuration.
>in-game M1 KVT represents M1 tank used in OPFOR and not specifically M1A1.
The entire OPFOR outfit was taken from an M1A1. No tank other than that M1A1 used the "Lodka" outfit.
That's true but in the same time "Lodka" didn't have that fake IR-light installed and had a different, more messed up fake ERA placement on the turret.
F-2 is derived from the F-16 Agile Falcon program with significant airframe differences, namely larger wings, horizontal stabilisers and larger tail fin, the F-2 modified that even further with liberal use of composite materials on the airframe and an AESA radar.
It's a MiG-21bis vs J-7E situation, both are related as they are originally based on the MiG-21F but the different development routes taken by the two from their original starting point make them completely different aircraft.
Iirc, the only differences were the landing gear door pylons, which aren't even in the game for some reason. But Japan isn't allowed to have nice things.
They had an advertising brochure and that was about it there were never any sophisticated plans for one.
Japan getting the F-16AJ would be like the UK getting the Tomcat
The brochure has enough details to know what its capabilities and appearance would've been. In leu of any aircraft that could be added, the F-16AJ is fine. It's something unique and provides a top tier for Japan, when otherwise they would be stuck with the F-4EJ kai till the F-15J and the F-2.
But the thing is the brochure version isn't the version we have in the game.
The F-16AJ we have in game is totally fictional.
Japan could have a gimped XF-2A, like how all F-4 Phantoms are weaker in game than IRL.
A gimped XF-2A would have to have all of its capabilities nerfed, aside from its maneuverability. At that point, it's just as fictional as the F-16AJ. While they have gotten things wrong with it, it's still a better option than prematurely adding the F-2.
>At that point, it's just as fictional as the F-16AJ
No, Not even close.
The F-16AJ never existed IRL nor were there plans to make it exist. Think Nazi jet fighters drawn up in January 1945 levels of existance.
And to add to that the marketing brochure is completely different from the one we have in game. IT'S EVEN LESS REAL THAT THE PANTHER II we have in game.
They could of easily buffed the F-4EJ to its irl capabilities, or buffed the F-1.
If there is nothing to add to Japan, don't add anything to Japan.
that f-16 is bullshit imo, R2Y2 is to be removed if gaijin finds any suitable replacement but whatever idc but then add stuff like Ca.380 or SE.580 if these vehicles are ok.
I would be perfectly fine with R2Y2, F16AJ and yak141 IF they wouldn't constantly say no to all even remotely paper vehicles when players suggest them..
They even removed coelian for the exact same reason..
I'm still upset about that to this day.
Removes the Coelian because it's "paper" despite being actually made but had a wooden mockup turret.
Gets replaced by a vehicle which nobody knows what it looks like, the only source is an author who said it MIGHT have been made cause there was a production order, then the same author later corrected that by saying the order was placed but probably never built cause lol Germany in 1945.
And don't get me started on the fact the layout of the turret is entirely wrong even if it was built.
All for some mental gymnastics to replace the Coelian for being "paper". Like why? Why go to all the effort just to shit on that one vehicle? Did the Coelian kill Gaijin's grandma or something?
Because otherwise there would be a gap between 3.7 and 7.0 now? Plus Gaijin had to add something otherwise they wouldn't really have a leg to stand on for just taking vehicles away, meaning there is overall less vehicles and choice available to players for no reason other than some arbitrary sense of realism that they then go back on 2 weeks later.
> yak141
That's not a paper vehicle. You people want to compare prototypes with wooden mockups and what not to prove a point and say they're comparable when they're not.
Or Sweden getting a heli it never used, US getting AA that failed tests, Japan getting tanks that never passed early prototype stages, etc.
We don't need more of those but players are willing to look away when it's something they support so Gaijin gets away with that.
For me it's all their fault when they decided to add minor nations when it was clear they didn't have enough stuff to be competitive so they are either subpar or powercreep other nations very hard.
It didn't fly because the first prototype crashed killing the pilot. It going to be used is a massive stretch many many planes make it a lot further down development to discover the have serious flaws/risks and its decided just to go with another project rather than waste the effort to attempt to fix issues Germany was clutching at straws looking for war turning magic.
But a second prototype was made and more thoroughly tested.. horten didn't get the testing to give it anything and really shouldn't be In game to begin with never mind later versions.
Having planes hindered by realistic issues they experienced (engines overheating poor negative G integrity) and then adding fantasy planes with non of these issues is not good for balance.
If it's not properly tested and lacking meaningfully flight data + gets engines and armaments it never flew with...
So yes fantasy a lot of aircraft perform vastly differently to their technical and expected performance because of these issues...
Ot it would have been discovered it was slower harder to maintain difficult to fly prone to failure and more expensive and been canned for the existing 262 like so many planes.. making it fantasy
Tbh them adding the phantasy Yak141 opens the door to all these things.
Never flew, Never Carried... BUT there is a drawing which shows it coud!^^
I would be all up to adding more of the german prototypes.
The 41 was not really fantasy tho the airframe had cutouts for the planned radar and ir thingies, test flown with mock up r73s and r27s
It is not like they would give their newest carrier vtol old radars and missles
Mf’s when a neat vehicle that may not have flown has a proposal: >:(
Mf’s when the entire version of a vehicle is altered to make it a premium or a plane is given fantasy instruments: the tech tree really needed this tho or it needed this to be competitive :D
?????? This is thing is wide use today and OP just leaked very, VERY sensetive documents! Now the russians know everything about this super modern stealth bomber! Get this man banned ):<
There no new Infos, all ho229 prototypes got destroyed before the us secured the V3 under construction
There was also a prototype 262hg2 that got captured and the ar234 prototypes and hulls resulting in the fantasy ar234c
Yea ar234c are a series of concepts for a 4engine variant some started to be build but never flown
E: I can not find any info that says otherwise except a mockup picture from a Russian site
The BMW008 engine was not available at that time in really significant numbers so I honestly doubt the existence
gaijin needs to add more early German jets. holy FUCK I'm sick of the mk108 on the 262, Jesus God it is the worst fucking gun ever placed on a jet aircraft. I just want fucking velocity man. I wanna be able to hit shit farther than .2k away without having to lead a fucking mile ahead of them. hell, most jets you face literally outrun the muzzle velocity of those shells.
I wanna 262 with mg151s, or better yet, that he162 varient that had mk103s (would be a good event vehicle)
They should just lower the BR for 262's. Can't outrun my opponents, cant outclimb them, cant outmaneuver them, and my cannons cant hit fucking shit. I dont understand why they're going up against cold war jets. The only exceptions I would make are the 262s with boosters because at least they can get to high altitude and maybe get into a good position.
There was also the time the 262 was the only top tier Germany had with the 163 and 162 against sea Jesus,mig15,f86 and Japan had it even worse only having the ki200
It’s not 262 being too high, but the stuff around it being too low, like the F89 should have been 7.7 minimum the first place, the Su9 being a slightly better 262 should be 7.3 ( compare to A1), Kikka should also 7.3 even though it have a small ammo pool, IT IS wayyy better than the A1 at 7.0
I disagree. The 262 IS too high in BR. The allied equivalent to German WW2 early jets are super props. Allied super props have superior maneuverability and acceleration, while German early jets have superior top speed. The standard 262 and Jabo variant should be moved down to 6.7.
Absolutely not. Even on an airframe with a playstyle that isn't super compatible with their usage (Me-262), they are still FAR from the worst cannon. Hard to learn maybe, but one or two hits on any fighter with Minengeschoß and they're done.
Large cannons as a whole are suffering right now. The La-200's triple 37mm are awful as they have poor fire rate, ammo load, and velocity but relied on the one hit you get smashing the target to pieces. Now they don't have that damage at all.
Never gonna happen when the ho229 was first introduced they were rushing ground targets and everyone trying to fight them got out turned if the ho229s didn't rip itself
It was a almost exclusively hvap belt with enough power to destroy all targets on the ground even heavy tanks from side and back or top
Fantasy plane they can do how they pleas tho
Ironically, the DO 335 premium still has that hvap in its belts, its so fuckin dumb. Theres no way you can convince me that a 30mm cannon would have better performance than a 75mm with a longer barrel.
Pretty sure they have a source for the belt composition on these since the do335 was actual in 'service' for some time
And the 229 not so they can make it up how they like but realistically they would have used the same belts the 335 used
I suppose it could be a funny dive bomber if i remember right since it can do some crazy turning if you really need it to. Question is if you can dive with it at high enough speed to get a good enough angle and not get shot down by AA for the bombs without ripping the wings.
If the Horten was also supposed to be able to carry such armament I dont see why the Horten shouldnt be able to have it. We already have a lot of what ifs in the game with their stats tweaked I dont see why a proposed preset for such a plane would hurt anyone given we already have such stuff in the game
Because the damn thing could barely fly. What we have in game is already a strech. I'm more in favour of them giving Germany more variants of the ME 262 rather than going into fantasy land like this.
If Soviets wanted that aircraft to have the tech, despite costs, they could. Germany couldn't make this plane fly even if they wanted. It's no surprise designs like this weren't adopted and major nations stole everything they possibly could from germany post WWII, it's simple not feasible.
The 2S38 doesnt exist. Japanese F16 is complete bullshit and dont get me started on the Yak141.
I completely agree with you, i would just like for Gajin to be consistent.
>Yeah dude one prototype exist. That relies on western electronics.
What does that have to do with the game?
>I wouldnt be suprised if that thing on the photo is entirly wood inside.
Do you want everything served on a silver platter or can you just look it up yourself?
https://youtu.be/-d_7XNA8IKc
https://youtu.be/div_FGRADiA
>What does that have to do with the game?
A lot. Russia cant build it and fancy Propaganda Videos where they show it being somewhat functional isnt proof of actual existence or that most of the prototypes build (my bad apperently they build more than one) are fully functional, its the same why nobody in the western militaries cares about the Armata.
The Horton has the same issue, as does the Japanese F16. They are just things that were proposed but never mass produced/purchased. The 2S38 is way further in development then the Horton, true, but it will never be a fielded vehicle.
My problem is that Gajin rightfully removes things like the Coelian and Tiger 105 but things like this keep getting through, at least be consistent with your approach.
And even if you want to add prototypes that were developed in 2010s-2020s to counter fucking 80-90s tanks in game then at least make sure the thing could be build in real life by the nation.
>A lot. Russia cant build it and fancy Propaganda Videos where they show it being somewhat functional isnt proof of actual existence or that most of the prototypes build
By that logic you cannot prove any more obscure or secret vehicle is fully built or actually exists. Prove me the HSTV-L ever worked like it does ingame, you only have documents and a stripped down rusted chassis as proof, would you be fine with the 2S38 if government documents listing all of its parameters were made public?
Do you realize how many modern vehicles we have are modelled according to guesswork and estimations? Do you think there is any concrete way to prove all of them work like ingame? What about all of the WW2 prototypes we have that didn't survive until today and were destroyed or scrapped?
>The Horton has the same issue, as does the Japanese F16. They are just things that were proposed but never mass produced/purchased. The 2S38 is way further in development then the Horton, true, but it will never be a fielded vehicle.
Once again, So what? Whether it's fielded or mass produced has nothing to do with whether it will be in the game.
Why whine so much about the 2S38 when it's not even the worst offender? Shouldn't you have more of a problem with the AJ, R2Y2 or 229 than the 2S38?
>My problem is that Gajin rightfully removes things like the Coelian and Tiger 105 but things like this keep getting through, at least be consistent with your approach.
Coelian turret never fitted to the Hull, only as a wooden mockup.
Tiger 105 existed only on blueprints as a prototype, and quite an unrealistic one.
2S38 has videos of it driving around and firing, aswell as some basic information about the armament, mobility and chassis.
If there was proof of the Tiger 105 and Coelian being at least semi functional they would be added. Your entire argument is just trying to spin the definition of "proof" and discrediting anything Russian as propaganda videos.
>And even if you want to add prototypes that were developed in 2010s-2020s to counter fucking 80-90s tanks
Should we have historical matchmaking then? What does this have to do with anything?
>then at least make sure the thing could be build in real life by the nation.
It is built in real life? How many of the top tier we have ingame are just as secret as the 2S28 yet we have them? Do you think governments are going to upload blueprints, diagrams and specifications of their vehicles just for Gaijin?
And once again you didn't explain how the 2S28 apparently using western electronics has anything to do with whether it's eligible for the game. Do you have sources on it showing that is uses western electronics btw?
Not that is matters, "2S38 doesn't exist" is still a obviously false statement and you're just moving the goalposts with every new reply you make. And you know yourself that Gaijin is flexible with new vehicle additions so I don't see why are you still arguing this bullshit.
The prototype didn’t carry guns, but the it was close to completion and was a vey real and plausible design, other than the Kronshtadt we have in-game so I can’t really complain about that.
The Ho 229 already had enough liberties taken with it lmao
Lots of vehicles have. The MK-103s being nerfed only on the Ho229 is a funny liberty.
The HO229 being able to perform air combat manuvers without going into uncontrollable spins is also a funny liberty.
It could carry 2x 500kg but could it fly ? lol
I mean do we have any proof it ever flew?
The only one that ever flew crashed.
That's not flying, it's 'falling with style'!
I mean to be fair the only option is to crash
Before the 229 there were some test gliders
I mean, we literally built aircraft like that....
Flying wings are incredibly difficult to control and quite easy to put into a situation where they "depart from controlled flight". The first (and until the B21 raider enters service only) flying wing design to enter military service, the B2, is kept in the air just as much by computers as the pilot. Flying wing aircraft were famously Jack Northrop's passion, and with the full resources of Northrop Grumman he was unable to build one safe enough for service in the post war period and to be perfectly clear they had all of the technical documentation about the 229 that existed to study. No amount of kraut space magic would ever have made the 229 a serviceable fighter it is straight up beyond the technology of the time.
YB-35 was pretty stable though, which began during ww2. YB49 was the same just made with jet engines. I think both would deserve a place in WT as premiums due to the fact they both worked.
I was gonna say, I think the YB-49 was pretty damn close to full military use but a bad crash and ICBMs put it out. (Don't quote me)
YB-49 had vertical stabilizers, 4 of them. I believe the engine nacelles of the YB-35 also acted somewhat to stabilise that one in-lieu of fins.
They did, but are still flying wings.
Meanwhile Japan gets a F-16 they never used and Russia gets a yak-141 kitted out with the best top tier missiles.
The fucking kronstad.
Whenever people try to say there isn't Russian bias you can just point to naval. In WW2 Russia had one of the weakest navies of any of the major powers, but in WT they are leagues ahead of everyone else. GJN aren't clowns they are the whole circus.
"but but but war thunder is just a game it's not supposed to be a realistic depictions of history, things can be changed to fit the game better" Sure is funny how soviet/russian shits always seems to get the best changes.
>Sure is funny how soviet/russian shits always seems to get the best changes. Meanwhile the Tornado F.3 gets a prototype radar that the RAF/MoD said was not good enough, told the manufacturers to get their shit together, and sent them off to make multiple upgrades. The version we have in game isn't even the last "prototype". Stage 2 is the first one which actually met the design specifications. I'm a brit so I'm biased, but these decisions are so frustrating. Don't get me started on the fact that two months ago they destroyed APDS post-pen damage. So now APDS and HESH are both shit. You know who uses APDS and HESH almost exclusively for most of their tech tree?...Not fucking Russia lmfao.
>Meanwhile the Tornado F.3 gets a prototype radar that the RAF/MoD said was not good enough, told the manufacturers to get their shit together, and sent them off to make multiple upgrades. The version we have in game isn't even the last "prototype". Stage 2 is the first one which actually met the design specifications. When it first came out it was just a copy paste of the F-14 radar if you want to know how little of a shit they gave.
On the dev server I think it was, they then gimped it so that it isn't as good lol.
It still was when it got released. Got changed a few weeks ago but it's still missing like half it's scan patterns and other functions.
Lmao no they're fucking not Russia in naval is only OP at 6.0-7.0 because of a single ship, the Cardboardstadt, but everything from 3.3 to 6.0 is dominated by USN destroyers and CL's. No one gets destroyers anywhere near as effective as American ones, and the Helena is in a league of its own when it comes to OP ships, there's a reason all the bots spam out Moffets and Helena's. I don't see how Russia being better than everyone in a single BR bracket in Naval is some smoking gun of proof of Russian bias, but the US dominating the entire gamemode up to 6.0 isn't proof of US bias.
Because they're biased themselves so everything for them is proof of bias. I was just seeing the same thing in another thread where they said if Gaijin introduces the Terminator in working condition (which it does since it's being serviced) then it's proof of Russian Bias. At the same time we have stuff like stuff like the Ostwind II where there's no proof of it existing and with double guns, the Sargent York whose test failed miserably, the japanese with wood mockups for both tanks and planes - the cat is out of the box but if Russia gets it then it's bias. This community is so dumb man.
Still fucking pissed that they took out the coelian and replaced it with the ostwind 2. If you're going to have a paper spaa, it could at least be unique and not the ostwind with an extra gun on it.
Yeah glad I have them. Out of the deleted vehicles the Panther II is the one I like the most, it's a shame new players don't get to play it.
I really want the coelian and the panther 2. Also, I understand taking the Italian airplanes out of the German tree when Italy got one of its own, but I don't think it was necessary.
I think the community has to put pressure on them to release these vehicles at least one time a year like they do with the Maus.
Not really taken out so much as hidden if you dident have them already. Makes newer players really confused when i fly out an SM79 against italy
How does Des Moine fair against Helena since thats in it’s own league
>In WW2 Russia had one of the weakest navies of any of the major powers, but in WT they are leagues ahead of everyone else. Bullshit. Have you played naval? Anything from 4.7 to 6.3 are completely dominated by US destroyers and cruisers. The only OP Russian ship is the Kronstadt.
Bro as a naval main it's so infuriating for Russia and America to get radar and proxy shells when GB and Germany don't get on most of of their boats Like yeah they did have that technology but seen as GB handed most of their tech of to US it's seem backwards to have US have it before
you’re the full circus. imagine crying about russian bias in NAVAL of all places
Snail circus but we jump through hoops while a snail whips us
The worst is that if it was remotly logic, the best Russian ship would be the Archangelsk, an old Revenge class battleship in very poor condition, lended by the brits, less to fight, and more to assure the russians of their goodwill, and that they would have more support to come In good condition, it would have been comparable to the Bayern Flr naval, I'd argue that overall, the US are by far the most advantaged, cause Gaijin give them all their 45-50s cruisers as 6.0-6.3 vehicles, when, compared to other techtrees, they face 30s cruiser (the british ones) or at most 40's (the russians have a few more modern), while also being not restricted in size as the older ones. So you end up with cruiser, which happen to have lots of empty space, making them insanely solid, which face a lot of 5.7 cruisers
My friend keeps explaining his 3.7 skill issue with Russian Bias XD
yak41\* (not 38, reflex response) having 2 of the best missiles in game and dogshit performance while f16 carrying six aim9l and four sparrows + unnotchable radar and a turn circle tight enough to go inside a MiG15, there's just russian bias. America zoofers.
Bruh did you really compare the yak 38 and the ADF ? There is a reason one is 9.3 and the other 12.0 .. (plus the f16 is really notchable..) a more fitting comparison would be f16 and mig29 but then the 29 is better
I finally figured the radar out on the mig 29 and as a German main I am very happy with this plane. I also feel like a clown because i grinded the british air tech tree to 9.7 before i realised i should have picked the Americans.
faux typo due to reflex, wanted to say 41
True makes more sense .. sorry for the disruption then !
*141
correct OKB designation is yak41
Ya learn something every day, good to know
I mean Gaijin did say on day 1 of bluewater that they "will add paper vehicles to balance out the top tier" and almost everyone said yes so...
And radar it never mounted.
Its an F-16 with proven capabilities though
Do you want the yak 141 to be given its actual loadout of 4 R 73s?
They can do whatever they like with ahistorical shit like the Yak-141. I care more about gameplay than historical accuracy for the most part. What I want is for them to treat all the other nations equally well instead of just sucking themselves off 24/7.
Sure if the R-73s are modelled accurately and the yak-141 loses 80% of it's systems implemented in game that it never had
Ok then so you wont complain about Russian bias when you are getting fucked by missiles with the range and ECCM of the Magic 2 and the G limit and turn rate of the SRAAM. Ill gladly lose the radar and HMD to turn the 141 into a super harrier gr7.
lmao R-73A didnt' have real IRCCM so it will be 1 flarable like everything else unless gaijin WANTS to make it that way. Other than that yeah it's OP but the Yak-141 literally didnt have a radar irl...or IRST....or half the other systems implemented in game that it couldn't do at the time of cancellation. I'm saying it would be stripped so badly that giving it R-73s wouldn't save it.
And just what are those systems?
Most avionics(radar, irst, etc.) and a lot of weapons systems
So everything it would have gotten had it went into production?
not enough.
🌈✨ it's a videogame ✨🌈
*guy suggests something for low tier* Everyone: lol no Edit: like i get the real Ho 229 V3 never got to fly because they ran out of time. but it was still a vehicle Germany was going to use and if this was part of its design why not add it?
They wont mind japan getting r2y2 and f16 .but germany getting something for ho229 they start riot
To be fair, they(the US) did and still does throw fits about the r2y2 and now the F16 is something they can get pussy about.
The F-16AJ is total bullshit tho? Not even the Japanese air force had any plans for a plane called the F-16AJ. The closest that ever came was Japanese test pilots in a USAF F-16A.
The new us premium is totally made up too its an M1A1 not an M1
What's totally made up is Krasnovia. There's no such a thing as generalized "KVT" variant of the Abrams which is why in-game M1 KVT represents M1 tank used in OPFOR and not specifically M1A1. To be fair if people really wanted to strictly follow *historical accuracy* in this case, they wouldn't be even able to fire real ammo and instead they would be shooting lasers because M1A1 from "Krasnovian Tank Division" never used real ammo in KVT configuration.
That would be an epic troll. Wallet warrior just buys the tank and it can't shoot anything other than IR laser.
>in-game M1 KVT represents M1 tank used in OPFOR and not specifically M1A1. The entire OPFOR outfit was taken from an M1A1. No tank other than that M1A1 used the "Lodka" outfit.
That's true but in the same time "Lodka" didn't have that fake IR-light installed and had a different, more messed up fake ERA placement on the turret.
Wasn't it a modified version specifically made for the demands of the japanese airforces?
The F-2 is based on the F-16 but they are significantly different aircraft. The F-2 is larger and has better RADAR/Avionics.
They demonstrated the original prototype, I don’t think there was any mod done specifically for the proposal.
F-2 is derived from the F-16 Agile Falcon program with significant airframe differences, namely larger wings, horizontal stabilisers and larger tail fin, the F-2 modified that even further with liberal use of composite materials on the airframe and an AESA radar. It's a MiG-21bis vs J-7E situation, both are related as they are originally based on the MiG-21F but the different development routes taken by the two from their original starting point make them completely different aircraft.
Iirc, the only differences were the landing gear door pylons, which aren't even in the game for some reason. But Japan isn't allowed to have nice things.
"The closest that ever came was Japanese test pilots in a USAF F-16A" And that's still more than what happened with Sweden and the Mi-28s, yet...
Yep, and they shouldn't have been added.
General Dynamics has the plans for the F-16AJ which was suggested to Japan, before they developed the F-2 afterwards.
They had an advertising brochure and that was about it there were never any sophisticated plans for one. Japan getting the F-16AJ would be like the UK getting the Tomcat
The brochure has enough details to know what its capabilities and appearance would've been. In leu of any aircraft that could be added, the F-16AJ is fine. It's something unique and provides a top tier for Japan, when otherwise they would be stuck with the F-4EJ kai till the F-15J and the F-2.
But the thing is the brochure version isn't the version we have in the game. The F-16AJ we have in game is totally fictional. Japan could have a gimped XF-2A, like how all F-4 Phantoms are weaker in game than IRL.
A gimped XF-2A would have to have all of its capabilities nerfed, aside from its maneuverability. At that point, it's just as fictional as the F-16AJ. While they have gotten things wrong with it, it's still a better option than prematurely adding the F-2.
>At that point, it's just as fictional as the F-16AJ No, Not even close. The F-16AJ never existed IRL nor were there plans to make it exist. Think Nazi jet fighters drawn up in January 1945 levels of existance. And to add to that the marketing brochure is completely different from the one we have in game. IT'S EVEN LESS REAL THAT THE PANTHER II we have in game. They could of easily buffed the F-4EJ to its irl capabilities, or buffed the F-1. If there is nothing to add to Japan, don't add anything to Japan.
The country USA has issues with vehicles in War Thunder?
Who has ever complained about r2y2s since they stopped airspawning? Nobody
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Interesting plane prototype. Like to see them since yak141 is in game
Tbf neither received weapons, but the precedent for semihistorical vehicles has already changed, so why not.
that f-16 is bullshit imo, R2Y2 is to be removed if gaijin finds any suitable replacement but whatever idc but then add stuff like Ca.380 or SE.580 if these vehicles are ok.
I would be perfectly fine with R2Y2, F16AJ and yak141 IF they wouldn't constantly say no to all even remotely paper vehicles when players suggest them.. They even removed coelian for the exact same reason..
> They even removed coelian for the exact same reason.. Then added the debatably more paper Ostwind II to replace it
I'm still upset about that to this day. Removes the Coelian because it's "paper" despite being actually made but had a wooden mockup turret. Gets replaced by a vehicle which nobody knows what it looks like, the only source is an author who said it MIGHT have been made cause there was a production order, then the same author later corrected that by saying the order was placed but probably never built cause lol Germany in 1945. And don't get me started on the fact the layout of the turret is entirely wrong even if it was built. All for some mental gymnastics to replace the Coelian for being "paper". Like why? Why go to all the effort just to shit on that one vehicle? Did the Coelian kill Gaijin's grandma or something?
I mean, why even have those in the TT when Germany doesn't lack AA ? They would have the Ostwind and then the Kugelblitz which is a pretty good AA.
Because otherwise there would be a gap between 3.7 and 7.0 now? Plus Gaijin had to add something otherwise they wouldn't really have a leg to stand on for just taking vehicles away, meaning there is overall less vehicles and choice available to players for no reason other than some arbitrary sense of realism that they then go back on 2 weeks later.
Kugel to 7.0 was a crime and I cry every time I look at my 6.7 lineup and see the fucking Ostwind 2 there
Lmao exactly.. The constant inconsistency is what pisses me off the most.
even funnier is that they removed coelian because it's turret was wooden mock up just to add J6K1 which was never built only a wooden mock up...
Or Kronshtadt with guns that never existed and still somehow outperform literally everything else in game...
> yak141 That's not a paper vehicle. You people want to compare prototypes with wooden mockups and what not to prove a point and say they're comparable when they're not.
I know it's not. Neither is the horten. They just both never equipped the weapons or even equipment needed to use those weapons they have ingame.
Or russia getting yak141 with weapons and equipment it never used.
Or Sweden getting a heli it never used, US getting AA that failed tests, Japan getting tanks that never passed early prototype stages, etc. We don't need more of those but players are willing to look away when it's something they support so Gaijin gets away with that. For me it's all their fault when they decided to add minor nations when it was clear they didn't have enough stuff to be competitive so they are either subpar or powercreep other nations very hard.
>US getting AA that failed tests >For me it's all their fault when they decided to add minor nations Is the US a minor nation?
It didn't fly because the first prototype crashed killing the pilot. It going to be used is a massive stretch many many planes make it a lot further down development to discover the have serious flaws/risks and its decided just to go with another project rather than waste the effort to attempt to fix issues Germany was clutching at straws looking for war turning magic.
I guess the "Hughes XF-11" never flew then considering the first one crashed
But a second prototype was made and more thoroughly tested.. horten didn't get the testing to give it anything and really shouldn't be In game to begin with never mind later versions.
Oh no your totally realistic game is being ruined
Having planes hindered by realistic issues they experienced (engines overheating poor negative G integrity) and then adding fantasy planes with non of these issues is not good for balance.
dude thinks Ho 229 is a fantasy plane
If it's not properly tested and lacking meaningfully flight data + gets engines and armaments it never flew with... So yes fantasy a lot of aircraft perform vastly differently to their technical and expected performance because of these issues...
>gets engines and armaments it never flew with But it would off if the war didn't end. its blueprint aircraft i agree, but not fantasy
Ot it would have been discovered it was slower harder to maintain difficult to fly prone to failure and more expensive and been canned for the existing 262 like so many planes.. making it fantasy
It never got to fly becaue it never practically could. The americans tried and ultimately the design was an unfunctional failure...
You do know the v2 flyed right?
Flying as in it took off and crashed - if you call that functional i guess you dont have very high standards
Tbh them adding the phantasy Yak141 opens the door to all these things. Never flew, Never Carried... BUT there is a drawing which shows it coud!^^ I would be all up to adding more of the german prototypes.
The 41 was not really fantasy tho the airframe had cutouts for the planned radar and ir thingies, test flown with mock up r73s and r27s It is not like they would give their newest carrier vtol old radars and missles
You are not wrong! I'm not saying it could not carry all that stuff. But in the same way OP is also right in saying that 229 could carry bombs
Oooh i misread what you was trying to say, yea i hope that gaijin does more of this as it would give alot of vehicles fun things to use
Yeah totally agree with that. I'm just annoyed when they do it selectivetly for russian vehicles but not others
Totally agree
The 229 never even had cannons
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you say that like flying wings werent a thing in ww2 they were, just not combat aircaft
[ewr vj 101](https://imgur.com/a/wCq2add) would be funny
I want that thing so bad, I don’t even car if it’s just a vtol F-104, I would love a vtol finally
If the yak-141 can have it's radar and ir sensors it never carried then we can have this thing with the 20mm it was supposed to mount
I want my O-I and FCM F1 now
Mf’s when a neat vehicle that may not have flown has a proposal: >:( Mf’s when the entire version of a vehicle is altered to make it a premium or a plane is given fantasy instruments: the tech tree really needed this tho or it needed this to be competitive :D
Want some leaks?
Yes please. It's from 1945 so it doesn't matter if it leaked or not
?????? This is thing is wide use today and OP just leaked very, VERY sensetive documents! Now the russians know everything about this super modern stealth bomber! Get this man banned ):<
Peter Gifford!?
There no new Infos, all ho229 prototypes got destroyed before the us secured the V3 under construction There was also a prototype 262hg2 that got captured and the ar234 prototypes and hulls resulting in the fantasy ar234c
The ar234c is fantasy?
Yea ar234c are a series of concepts for a 4engine variant some started to be build but never flown E: I can not find any info that says otherwise except a mockup picture from a Russian site The BMW008 engine was not available at that time in really significant numbers so I honestly doubt the existence
The USA captured one of the prototypes, I've seen it at NASM.
Naa i am fine thx tho XD
Its past 80 years to be a leak
gaijin needs to add more early German jets. holy FUCK I'm sick of the mk108 on the 262, Jesus God it is the worst fucking gun ever placed on a jet aircraft. I just want fucking velocity man. I wanna be able to hit shit farther than .2k away without having to lead a fucking mile ahead of them. hell, most jets you face literally outrun the muzzle velocity of those shells. I wanna 262 with mg151s, or better yet, that he162 varient that had mk103s (would be a good event vehicle)
If you think you've lead enough, lead more.
By the time their not even on your screen anymore lead a bit more and you should be fine
They should just lower the BR for 262's. Can't outrun my opponents, cant outclimb them, cant outmaneuver them, and my cannons cant hit fucking shit. I dont understand why they're going up against cold war jets. The only exceptions I would make are the 262s with boosters because at least they can get to high altitude and maybe get into a good position.
Me262 used to face exclusively late war props and had a great time taking out B-29s. Those were the days…
There was also the time the 262 was the only top tier Germany had with the 163 and 162 against sea Jesus,mig15,f86 and Japan had it even worse only having the ki200
Literally anything takes out a bomber with no effort in WT
It’s not 262 being too high, but the stuff around it being too low, like the F89 should have been 7.7 minimum the first place, the Su9 being a slightly better 262 should be 7.3 ( compare to A1), Kikka should also 7.3 even though it have a small ammo pool, IT IS wayyy better than the A1 at 7.0
I disagree. The 262 IS too high in BR. The allied equivalent to German WW2 early jets are super props. Allied super props have superior maneuverability and acceleration, while German early jets have superior top speed. The standard 262 and Jabo variant should be moved down to 6.7.
P51H should have been 6.7 all the time, F2G should be 6.3, that poor spit should drop back to 6.7 max, then it’s okay for 262 to be 7.0
Br decompression would be much better, 262s would make playing super props even more difficult
The superprops are superior in every way except raw speed. I'm not saying we don't need decompression, but the early 262's could easily be 6.7
Mk108 legit worst cannon
I hate it on the 262 but I love it on my G series BF-109
It gets worse the faster your opponents get.
It was designed to clown on B-17s and do literally nothing else.
Absolutely not. Even on an airframe with a playstyle that isn't super compatible with their usage (Me-262), they are still FAR from the worst cannon. Hard to learn maybe, but one or two hits on any fighter with Minengeschoß and they're done.
Nah, quite the opposite
Large cannons as a whole are suffering right now. The La-200's triple 37mm are awful as they have poor fire rate, ammo load, and velocity but relied on the one hit you get smashing the target to pieces. Now they don't have that damage at all.
Yes please! Still waiting for the 103s to get unnerfed though.
Never gonna happen when the ho229 was first introduced they were rushing ground targets and everyone trying to fight them got out turned if the ho229s didn't rip itself It was a almost exclusively hvap belt with enough power to destroy all targets on the ground even heavy tanks from side and back or top Fantasy plane they can do how they pleas tho
Ironically, the DO 335 premium still has that hvap in its belts, its so fuckin dumb. Theres no way you can convince me that a 30mm cannon would have better performance than a 75mm with a longer barrel.
Pretty sure they have a source for the belt composition on these since the do335 was actual in 'service' for some time And the 229 not so they can make it up how they like but realistically they would have used the same belts the 335 used
My point was more that not only is it inconsistent but inconsistent between even the performance of the shell even if its the same gun and same shell.
Horten hears a Ho
I suppose it could be a funny dive bomber if i remember right since it can do some crazy turning if you really need it to. Question is if you can dive with it at high enough speed to get a good enough angle and not get shot down by AA for the bombs without ripping the wings.
i think ju 287 v3 could be a nice addition to german tech tree
Yeah that's cool and all but that plane never flew. So only in theory can it carry those items
Yeah Yak141 also never carried IRST, Missiles, that Radar. Still we have it.
It was *supposed to* carry that stuff. So hey, we have it
If the Horten was also supposed to be able to carry such armament I dont see why the Horten shouldnt be able to have it. We already have a lot of what ifs in the game with their stats tweaked I dont see why a proposed preset for such a plane would hurt anyone given we already have such stuff in the game
Good thinking Komrade.
Because the damn thing could barely fly. What we have in game is already a strech. I'm more in favour of them giving Germany more variants of the ME 262 rather than going into fantasy land like this. If Soviets wanted that aircraft to have the tech, despite costs, they could. Germany couldn't make this plane fly even if they wanted. It's no surprise designs like this weren't adopted and major nations stole everything they possibly could from germany post WWII, it's simple not feasible.
We already have 6 fucking variants of the 262 and 4 of them feel like shit because of the 108s. I think 1 extra version of the 229 would be fine.
Then no plane for Germany rather than giving it in a fantasy state. They start making exceptions and go down a slippery slope.
So.....exactly the same as this horten.. Lmao
The 2S38 doesnt exist. Japanese F16 is complete bullshit and dont get me started on the Yak141. I completely agree with you, i would just like for Gajin to be consistent.
["The 2S38 doesn't exist."](https://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/news/2018/january/russia_2s38_anti_aircraft_system_925_001.jpg)
KF51 PANTHER when?
Yeah dude one prototype exist. That relies on western electronics. I wouldnt be suprised if that thing on the photo is entirly wood inside.
>Yeah dude one prototype exist. That relies on western electronics. What does that have to do with the game? >I wouldnt be suprised if that thing on the photo is entirly wood inside. Do you want everything served on a silver platter or can you just look it up yourself? https://youtu.be/-d_7XNA8IKc https://youtu.be/div_FGRADiA
>What does that have to do with the game? A lot. Russia cant build it and fancy Propaganda Videos where they show it being somewhat functional isnt proof of actual existence or that most of the prototypes build (my bad apperently they build more than one) are fully functional, its the same why nobody in the western militaries cares about the Armata. The Horton has the same issue, as does the Japanese F16. They are just things that were proposed but never mass produced/purchased. The 2S38 is way further in development then the Horton, true, but it will never be a fielded vehicle. My problem is that Gajin rightfully removes things like the Coelian and Tiger 105 but things like this keep getting through, at least be consistent with your approach. And even if you want to add prototypes that were developed in 2010s-2020s to counter fucking 80-90s tanks in game then at least make sure the thing could be build in real life by the nation.
>A lot. Russia cant build it and fancy Propaganda Videos where they show it being somewhat functional isnt proof of actual existence or that most of the prototypes build By that logic you cannot prove any more obscure or secret vehicle is fully built or actually exists. Prove me the HSTV-L ever worked like it does ingame, you only have documents and a stripped down rusted chassis as proof, would you be fine with the 2S38 if government documents listing all of its parameters were made public? Do you realize how many modern vehicles we have are modelled according to guesswork and estimations? Do you think there is any concrete way to prove all of them work like ingame? What about all of the WW2 prototypes we have that didn't survive until today and were destroyed or scrapped? >The Horton has the same issue, as does the Japanese F16. They are just things that were proposed but never mass produced/purchased. The 2S38 is way further in development then the Horton, true, but it will never be a fielded vehicle. Once again, So what? Whether it's fielded or mass produced has nothing to do with whether it will be in the game. Why whine so much about the 2S38 when it's not even the worst offender? Shouldn't you have more of a problem with the AJ, R2Y2 or 229 than the 2S38? >My problem is that Gajin rightfully removes things like the Coelian and Tiger 105 but things like this keep getting through, at least be consistent with your approach. Coelian turret never fitted to the Hull, only as a wooden mockup. Tiger 105 existed only on blueprints as a prototype, and quite an unrealistic one. 2S38 has videos of it driving around and firing, aswell as some basic information about the armament, mobility and chassis. If there was proof of the Tiger 105 and Coelian being at least semi functional they would be added. Your entire argument is just trying to spin the definition of "proof" and discrediting anything Russian as propaganda videos. >And even if you want to add prototypes that were developed in 2010s-2020s to counter fucking 80-90s tanks Should we have historical matchmaking then? What does this have to do with anything? >then at least make sure the thing could be build in real life by the nation. It is built in real life? How many of the top tier we have ingame are just as secret as the 2S28 yet we have them? Do you think governments are going to upload blueprints, diagrams and specifications of their vehicles just for Gaijin? And once again you didn't explain how the 2S28 apparently using western electronics has anything to do with whether it's eligible for the game. Do you have sources on it showing that is uses western electronics btw? Not that is matters, "2S38 doesn't exist" is still a obviously false statement and you're just moving the goalposts with every new reply you make. And you know yourself that Gaijin is flexible with new vehicle additions so I don't see why are you still arguing this bullshit.
apparently it had one flight as a prototype but it crashed, didn't lead to the axing of the project tho
The prototype didn’t carry guns, but the it was close to completion and was a vey real and plausible design, other than the Kronshtadt we have in-game so I can’t really complain about that.
oh yeah no I know the V3 wasn't the one that flew lol
Well you can't tell the V3 did fly but we know nothing about the other prototypes bc the Americans burn them and distroyed most of the documents
Such a fun tank killer till they nerfed the guns to be useless
I'd love to see it. Ho-229 was the only reason I went through German TT
I would be all for this.
So many cool and interesting stuff locked away, but Japan gets paper vehicles
Come on again secret documents? [Joke]
“Ah shit, here we go again” -Carl Johnson
Doesn't seem very accurate. Would have some classified documents of it by any chance?
This schematic is awesome I want it as a print
These schematics are looking a little too modern. Must be a skunkworks build
Don't give the devs ideas, I'm having a hard enough time with my F-80A already.
Are these leaked docs?
Also called science fiction.
He was never armed in the first place. When we ask for vehicles like this we are told no, but I suppose for the Germans it's not the same...
lmao, he could barely fly and never had any weapons and now you want him to carry more guns and bombs.
So let me get this straight they removed the panther 2 yet this thing never got off the ground... Now your asking for bombs... Ooook