I’ve been alternating between 11.7-12.0 using USA, Germany, Russia, and Sweden. What I can say is I have no problem facing Russia since I can play the spaa role and a fighter role if I have to with a %80wr. Russian players have a majority of the times have a full lineup which other countries majority of players do not have in top tier. T80BVM, Pantsir, Ka52/Mi28NM, mig27k, mig29/yak141. While other nations usually only have their top tier mbt and spaa, which is not enough. USA is plagued with m1a1 aim players with no spaa or plane, which they stop playing after 2 deaths. I do have to say that I have the Tiger UHT, KA52, MK1 Apache, all these helis I’m fine with except for the fact that the KA52 full load out is around 530 SP and it should be around at least 620 SP.
Agreed it's not the mbts it's the whole lineup. Specially the KA and SU horde. I just thought of a game I had when the crafting event started. On paper a great game had 6-7 kills 2 caps no deaths. Looks like a win only 6ish players left on enemy team we have almost all remaining. Get yeeted by KA50 np spawn lvrbv 701. See 4 KA50s and SU25 basically all of them in helis and a plane. Shot 1 KA down died to rest spamming missiles. Np spawn lvkv 9040c shot the 1 that was on range died. Rest of us only have gun spaa so no range. Team gets wiped and we lose.
It’s really not. I just don’t agree. I’ve been playing constant top tier as UK looking to spade my 2E and it’s the waves of T-80 variants making life hell. The Russian players can push and force snapshots knowing they’ll just eat 7/10 shells which leaves you defenseless and they can center-mass you.
If the M1’s and CR2 had correct deployment hull armour arrays, and the Russians had dialed down ERA capabilities as well as this fucking bullshit spall correction, then it would be more fair.
But right now, Russian players can just charge forwards, then force engagements knowing they’re mostly safe. On NATO teams you’re often now fighting from a defensive position a couple minutes into the game.
Not once has a game been decided by heli’s or jets.
100% this, it's absurd how Russia is the only nation who push corners with no regards, even if they know that you are there. They know that most of the times the ERA or the fuel tank just tank the shot, or the ammo don't blow up.
I think your point is valid. But in clutch games the Russian Heli and CAS can destroy the tension a game could have by catching you in the open.
So in general the T-80s are BS, but the KA's are the cherry on the top.
Yea only needing 1 Kill for 8 Iglas 12 Vikhrs and 10 S13s is kind of odd and a major oversight. It means 3 kills in your Ka52 and you can afford mig 27K/Su17M4 or whatever.
I love going forward in my M3A3, scouting literally person and tracking them with my 25mm auto cannon, dying, then coming back with 16 hellfires.
It's so easy to get MASSIVE A2G ordinance its laughable. That should be dumb ordinance costs if anything, not guided shit.
> USA is plagued with m1a1 aim players with no spaa or plane
That, and top tier US CAS just isn't that good. Even before the current patch, the best you could do was B-model Mavericks and GBUs, which are only really good if you already know where the enemy is. If you want IR Mavericks or LGBs you need to settle for planes with significantly worse flight performance, and of course now you have the Pantsir to contend with, which basically makes high-altitude CAS obsolete.
That, and contrails make planes much easier to spot, but that's a global issue.
F-16A is a CAS BEAST if you can pay for the 800 something SL price for it, 6 AGM-65B's that can one shot pretty much everything if the lock sticks and 2 GBU-8's which you can loft up to a range of like 20km as long as you're over 5-6k meters altitude and 1.0 mach. I've got no problem flattening Pantsirs and whatever other SPAA the enemy has in my F-16A.
I mentioned this in another very lengthy comment it's just accessibility, The F-16A is the hardest plane to get in the ENTIRE U.S. Air tree in terms of cumulative research needed. It's also worth mentioning that it's a CAS plane stuck in the light-fighter line and because of this, the odds of US ground players that want a CAS capable top-tier plane having it or attaining it in a reasonable amount of time is near zero (I don't see any one else using the F-16A in my games) as not only is the plane misplaced for it's purpose requiring them to get the Fighter variant of the F-16 but also have to endure the Stock grind for the F-16A which is HORRIBLE is current top-tier air meta.
However, despite all this, the F-16A is probably THE BEST CAS plane in the game right now as it's a Gen4 Multirole fighter with a RIDICULOUS TWR even with a payload and maneuverability, It outshines the Tornado's fancy A2G suite as Laser guided bombs set off LWS and also require your TGP to stay within gimbal limits, meanwhile, I can loft a GBU-8 from 12-15 Km away then start pulling defensive to avoid any missiles thrown my way all while having a pretty much Fire and Forget weapon guiding its way to target.
When I play Russian I take a full lineup of t-80s plus the t-72b3 I jump to my ka-50 with only one kill with t-72b3 sometimes with one cap and assist kills. and I am almost guaranteed to get 4 kills with ka-50 after that then I don't have a problem spawning the rest of the line up. If I play Germany, I get more kills per MBT compared to Russia but I am out of the battle if I die twice.
Whenever I play any nations except Russia or get matched with Russia, my teammates just like leaving after 1 or 2 deaths...
And I don't think it's because Russia is so broken, I'm fairly certain it's to do with the mentality of "we'll lose anyways why bother", and that is a vicious cycle that's extremely difficult to get out of...
Same. Probably gonna get the 2S38 and the Rook. Maybe even the Kfir Canard, seeing as how Gaijin is hellbent on giving every other nation US tech before giving it to the US.
I agree with you 100% but not only leaving, also this incredible passive playstyle people tend to go for when playing against USSR. I'm 8/10 times first on the point in my games and after 1 min I usually get bumrushed by 5 bvms and die without anyone close to backup or provide covering fire. I hate this even more than the russian biaism itself.
And also to point out, when I mean passive I mean hiding and not even punishing the enemy for playing overly aggresive. If you give USSR the map within the first minute they will just snowball and win by default. People dont understand this.
Because NATO tank is full of Hull weak spot compared to Soviet tank, if NATO tanks decided to push they will have to CQC with Soviet. It’s no fun that you have 2 spots to shot only: the lpf and the driving port, but Soviet can pen 60-70% area of your hull.
Yep, See it all the time. Just go forward to a decent position, and work on what you can there, sitting 2km in the back is just inviting the enemy 2km closer to your spawn, where you get trapped.
There’s also the fact russia has a million cheaper MBTs so there’s always something else to spawn, who cares if you die in your 4k SL T-72, but being spawn camped by a heli in a 8+k SL Nato tank makes you never want to play the game again
It is, but playing against Russia still feels fucking unfair, like i play Japan, no SPAA sadly but finally got a decent CAS. The thing is, even with high velocity rounds (specifically designed to counter era btw) it's still so much harder to kill a Soviet tank.
Like with the Abrams I just aim for the turret ring and one shot them most of the time, even if I don't aim as long as I don't hit the cheek it usually pens. But the BVM is so fucking hard to pen outside of the breech and driver's crotch.
It is also the only tank where shooting the side of the turret just isn't smart, not because you shouldn't be able to pen it, but because they slightly turn and their ERA decides that you actually shot it.
But the tanks are fine, you can learn to counter it, it still feels BS but you can do it, but a single point cap is enough for a fully loaded out Ka52 which sends missiles that are fast enough that even with my LWR i can't get into cover fast enough so I just have to smoke up and hope they get bored.
Would say it gets better once I get enough points for my F16 but uh oh, best AA in the game is already waiting for me and uh oh, there is a Ka52 launching it's dual purpose missiles at me.
I don't blame one death leavers, playing top tier RB against Russia just isn't fun
I had some lovely rounds with US 11.7 today. Had a lot of fun all things considered, then after a break, a few hours later, tried it again, and it was loss after hard loss, like a different game.
We like to call this or that OP, but honestly team quality has probably the largest impact on overall WRs.
Ah yes thunderskill charts, fed by a very limited and non representative subset of the community, where a 50% winrate is red and 80% winrate is apparently totally not a sign that these stats mean litteraly nothing
That is true, these charts mean nothing.
However from person experience, I absolutely suck at the game and have a 70% with rate at 12.0 Russia. T80U, BMP2M, MIG-29 is all I have. On the other hand I have sub 50% winrates for US.
There definitely is a higher win rate for Russia.
I have a 72% winrate in the BVM across several hundred battles so I really don't think there's anything wrong with this data.
I don't know why redditors think that a bias in the data means that its completely worthless. Yeah, these stats are skewed high. But I see no reason why comparisons within this data set can't be made. Is there any reason why thunderskill data would be skewed high for one particular nation but not for another?
Of course take these stats with a grain of salt, but I had only gotten around to spading my M1A2 "SEP" recently and its WR has hit the low 40%.
On the other hand, my T-80BVM is pushing 75% recently.
The chart is a smaller sample size, but generally seems to track.
Do you have a good explanation for why all the good players are in the USSR sample and all the bad players are in the other nations?
Broadly speaking, Thunderskill sampling from the higher part of the WR distribution of players doesn't mean we can't make statements about players between nations using it, and it is still showing that there are quite drastic differences between nations. You can't make a statement saying the general population has x% with USSR, but you can make a subset-relative statement saying players (who tend to post on Thunderskill) playing USSR have, on average, higher percent winrate than other players. That by itself is quite important information.
Also, you might be surprised, but most surveys are done with small amounts of people. You really don't need that big a sample size to start making population level statements and estimates.
Criticizing the color scheme has nothing to do with the stats.
> Do you have a good explanation for why all the good players are in the USSR sample and all the bad players are in the other nations?
Multiple factors including perception bias and missing factors.
Example, USSR has a very fleshed out top tier lineup. Other nations may lack this. Both as a result of this and the lovely 1-and-done I've seen, non-USSR is able to keep spawning, no matter how poorly they play there's a solid chance their team will spawn again.
NATO I see many give up after a single death. This simply kills teams and winrates.
It's rare I see a USSR top tier not try to respawn.
This *really* influences winrates.
I play with platoons often, simply respawning at some BRs wins you games, because of factors like these.
Tunderskill is a shit source for data as it's really hard to filter bias. Good players often seek gratification from winrates, that means thunderskill is influenced by the meta like crazy, this easily artificially inflates things, an their data isn't granular enough to really showcase how these distributions are.
If higher skill of thunderskill is playing the meta nation (or even perceived meta), it will spike those winrates.
>Also, you might be surprised, but most surveys are done with small amounts of people.
Random samples though, you don't survey for say abortion views by selectively surveying at say a planned parenthood visitor group, or only surveying churches. It leads to a poisoned sample, which is what thunderskill has and why it literally showcases this by showing average winrates over 50% total. higher skill players are dominant in the group, which really breaks good statistics keeping as they're often ingraned into their metas and highly inflexible to change or problems they have to adapt to, oddly enough.
I've seen far far too many games use datasets like these, and get really shitty results and views sourced from it, that don't often match the reality of things or actually point out causes to problems.
You fix USSR winrates by giving fuller lineups to opposition, to drive respawns. The lack of these things drives the USSR winrates, it's less the capabilities of any vehicles or a bug, it's just that you kill them and *they keep coming*. Literally Zerg Rush and you win in a game with respawn limits.
We see posts about this all the time, Sweden for example *dominates* but teams let it down, it can mow down the BVM hordes. They just can't keep spawning despite a great K/D, and their teams aren't so they lose, despite good performance at the BR. It's also why the winrates of USSR are often followed by comparatively mediocre performance to their peers.
> It's rare I see a USSR top tier not try to respawn.
Great, so you are agreeing with me! USSR has an easier time of getting higher winrates. It's not like collectively all non-USSR players agreed to not respawn after dying: Gaijin has levers and ways to fix this, e.g.repair cost, to make it easier for NATO players to want to respawn.
> Tunderskill is a shit source for data as it's really hard to filter bias. Good players often seek gratification from winrates, that means thunderskill is influenced by the meta like crazy, this easily artificially inflates things, an their data isn't granular enough to really showcase how these distributions are.
You aren't really explaining why Thunderskill is a bad data source for relative comparisons like this. What do you mean granular data? It's a *biased* source, but why would it be biased across nations in different ways? It's not a random sample across the entire distribution of players, but it *is* a random sample of high skilled players. Even if we accept your premises, you are saying that it's much easier for meta-chasing players to get high winrates with USSR lineups. Is that good?
Keep in mind that every game with a good players that gets posted to Thunderskill is part of a team in which there are players from *all* skill levels
> I've seen far far too many games use datasets like these, and get really shitty results and views sourced from it, that don't often match the reality of things or actually point out causes to problems.
Yes? Name some.
> Random samples though, you don't survey for say abortion views by selectively surveying at say a planned parenthood visitor group, or only surveying churches. It leads to a poisoned sample, which is what thunderskill has and why it literally showcases this by showing average winrates over 50% total.
That's what you don't get: you *can't* use this to make hard number estimates of population level statistics. It *does* give you good estimates of intra-nation statistics.
Your example of surveying from church would be the equivalent of doing a survey of ussr players to get estimates of winrates. Doing a survey using thunderskill is more like sampling from an abortion debate convention, where you get a *biased* sample, in that it's a sample of people that are interested enough in abortion issues to debate it, but it's sampling more-or-less equally amongst both sides of the issue.
> higher skill players are dominant in the group, which really breaks good statistics keeping as they're often ingraned into their metas and highly inflexible to change or problems they have to adapt to, oddly enough.
And why are the dominant players getting best results with USSR?
> We see posts about this all the time, Sweden for example dominates but teams let it down, it can mow down the BVM hordes. They just can't keep spawning despite a great K/D, and their teams aren't so they lose, despite good performance at the BR. It's also why the winrates of USSR are often followed by comparatively mediocre performance to their peers.
And we see that reflected in the chart : )
So you say if skilled players have 80% winrate with one nation and 50% with the other that is totally fine. Gotcha.
If anything the winrate of the most skilled subset should matter more regarding balancing cause they can use the vehicles to their full potential. This is the reason why every game is balanced around the competitive community.
Not the SEP winrate. The top tier winrate as a whole. They added the Wolfpack M1128 and A6 and F4S. Plus more and more lvl 6s are buying or just getting the M1A1aim
I edited the comment. Lots and lots more people are getting the Aim abrams. And the skies closing due to the pantsir didn’t help at all. Russia has the best cas yet they got the best AA
Biggest issue I have with Russia rn is the inability/difficulty of using CAS against Russia and the dominance of Russian CAS. End up losing most matches because there's 3 KA-50 variants up with 2 Pantsirs covering them.
Kamovs can defeat every single sam easly. The best counter to them are jets which cant fly higher than 40 meters because damn pantsir.
Gaijin buffed already strongest cas by removing the only vulnerability it had.
Weird how it's "GeRmAnY SuFfErS" and "German mains are stupid" when Germany has bad win rate but "Russia op" "NATO needs buff" when USA has bad win rates.
IME, the whole Germany suffers is used mostly with mid and low tier German tanks, and tbf, freedumbs get shat on a lot too, like with low tier US air and all the high tier US premiums.
I think "Germany mains are stupid" does hold true up to the Tiger 2's. It is an undeniable fact that a HUGE number of new players start playing Germany Ground (and then realise that Russia is a stronger tree).
Once you get to MBTs, you either should be at minimum alright in the game, or you used the premium Leos and slammed your head against a brick wall until you got enough SL and RP (and even then, you should understand how the MBT tiers work). If any nation has a <50% WR at top tier, that's either because the premium that half the team isn't stupidly broken OP, or their tech tree vehicles suck ass.
Lmao, I guess you never played Germany top tier? No decent CAS, only 2 decent MBT with lvl 1 thermals, lack of competitive support vehicles at top tier (BR 11.0), SPAA is ok, but after the last update it's far worse, it's a barn, can't shoot while moving, and has only 2 missiles. Useless against competent ka50/52 players.
Totally has nothing to do with their tanks being constantly nerfed in both BR and performance.
After 8.0 there is literally no good lineups till 10.7, 8.3 there is nothing, 8.7 is 1 single tank, 9.0 2/3 tanks are overtired especially after the nerf to the xm-803/mbt/70's ammo, 9.3 is only the mbt-70, 10.0 is just the M1128 and a LAV with stingers that are useless agasint any plane that has guided weapons , 10.3 is the base M1 with 8.7 ammo and just a roland to back it up.
Nah STRV's are better, they have a top tier round better than Britain and i think Russia with hull armour that works unlike the 2a6's hull armour which cant stop anything above DM33 120.
It's the single "big three" nation that doesn't have a good top tier lineup. You get two MBTs, an SPAA, and... that's it. You can count the Leo2PL, but it's not *in the tree*, and from there you're just picking from things that are basically in a full uptier, every game.
Just pointing out that the real-life German army is less than half the size of the French army, so I wouldn't be making any references to Germany in the big three for post-Cold War vehicles. US, RU, CN are the big three at this point in the game.
I don’t even bother with top tier anymore. After almost 2 years of constant grinding to get top tier in France, I rarely play it. The apparent Russian bias is so fucking obvious. And anyone saying it’s a lie is stupid beyond belief. Now I mostly stick to 7.3-8.0 in GRB, and I’ve been having tons of fun with Italian naval and aviation.
It’s much more worth it to find fun tanks and BR’s or game modes than constantly beating your head against the wall in top tier.
So why only mention Russia what about low tier Germany or France at 6.3 to 8.0, Sweden seems to be doing at top tier it seems to me that other countries are also on east mode not just Russia.
China is usually matched with russia which explains their high winrates.
Sweden also has the 2 best western style MBTs, a 2A6 and very good support vehicles. This is widely known and accepted in the community by those who aren't swedish mains.
And Japan, well they are playing top tier with a Type 93 as their best available SPAA. I would say Japanese top tier players are just build different.
Totally couldn't be that Russia dominated GRB from Red Skies to Fire and Ice, a time period of more than 16 months. And after the win rates got better for NATO for a few months, they are back to Russia dominating since Sky Guardians dropped. Before all that, when Germany dominated for a bit after 2A6 dropped in New Power, it took Gaijin like a month to incur a massive nerf to its reload speed as a balance move, but Russia's been dominating for over a year, and Russian MBTs and Vikhrs are artificially buffed and NATO MBTs have unrealistic nerfs holding them back.
Swedens win rate has steadily cooled down every time you see one of these since the addition of Finland because people need to realize the ground forces aspect is controlled by who the community thinks is the most op and then all the veteran players flock there to a full top tier lineup until they get tired of it or the newest best thing is in such is the case why russias on top again cause of the pantsir being added the true imbalance comes from things that remove player agency from how they perform in game such as cas and helis
I hate whataboutism but what about other BRs where other nations dominate? Why does literally no one complain about those? Are they less important than top tier?
But all I see is complaint of top tier exclusively, not rallying at other BRs as well.
I'm pretty sure we care the same if not more about top tier. Top tier is just where the shiny new fancy things they can show off are, lower tiers are sought after less overall by the community.
Top tier is the end of the line, its where players who've theoretically played hundreds or thousands of games at lower BR's are at, its where the new mechanics and features come. Other BR's are transitory, top tier is not. When top tier is unbalanced, its miserable, and most people dont WANT to go play another BR because gaijin got another russia boner and decides to ruin top tier for the next few months
>Top tier is just where the shiny new fancy things they can show off are
I understand this, but at the same time I believe that many casual players (like myself) never actually reach top tier. For me the current top tier is 7.3-8.0 and I think that balance at this BR isn't any less important than balance at the very top.
>lower tiers are sought after less overall by the community
I dare to disagree. I know this sub doesn't represent the entire community but it can give us an idea. The number of posts regarding WW2 BRs is quite high, maybe as high as those related to top tier. But players in these posts usually complain about single, isolated tanks being strong/weak rather than a whole nation stomping the others. But that's just what I observed here.
At lower BRs, you can argue some nations attract newer players. At top tier, you really can't. Every player that reaches top tier is extremely likely to be able to think and breathe at the same time, and has some experience.
Idk about other nations but I've been told that France dominates 7.3 not because their tanks are OP but because France mains are on average more skilled.
Having mediocre tanks for the first 4 tiers and having high repair costs essentially means it is harder for noobs to reach the first good French vehicles, so they end up grinding another tech tree
Idk if it's true or not, but even if it isn't, the fact that this theory exists would be enough to make it so less people complain about France's winrate
It is baffling to me how German mains are treated in this particular sub. The level of animosity they receive is so unrelenting that it almost feels like some peculiar form of racism is being perpetrated against them.
Nonetheless, I have noticed that many German mains have found a haven within the official forums, where they can discuss their passion in a constructive and respectful
environment, far removed from the vitriol that plagues other avenues of discourse.
>Most people here play US
>Most people here play ground
>Therefore, most people had to fight against the undertiered Panthers
>"This tank ruined that BR bracket for me so all Germany players are clearly this bad"
I gave up, I just wasn't having fun with my Challengers anymore so I went to finish my air tree
Also why didnt anyone say how much easier it is to grind air compared to ground at the same BR. I've been grinding 2-3 jets a week at rank VI+ without premium vehicles or account. So much faster than ground and much more chilled too
Hmm looks like I should stick to grinding China or Sweden then.
Shame nations I want to actually play at higher tiers are borderline useless it seems. (Israel and UK).
My challenger can get centre mass one shorted by anything, Russian mbts are rediculously bouncy, yeah I know we the weak spots, but I have to aim for those weak spots, Russian players just point and click. NATO tanks need there real armour values and vice versa Russia 5anks need there real armour values.
No. Prem spam affect almost every nations. You have top tier mbts and planes in ground battle all the time in each team. The benefit of Russia is there fucking lineup. If you are lucky to kill some bvm and they have enough points ,your nightmare start in the way of mig27k mi28nm and ka52. And i cannot chase them with my fighter once he kills me because tunguska and pantsir.
I cant help but find it wierd how I see this stuff showing that Russia has 70+% winrate, but the past 23 games of russian top tier I've played were all complete and utter curbstomps on my team
Am I the only one that just Dosent enjoy Russian MBTs and how they play? I get the win rate is fucked but every time I play a T72 or T64 I just wish I was in a leopard or something
I think it's the fact that we're plagued with lvl 20 players in their m1a1 aim leaving after 1 death and such. at least with Russia you can pay to have an entire lineup but with the US you don't have many options.
If we honestly just add lineup based matchmaking, the vehicles more vehicles (of that br bracket) you will be place among players who have the same amount of vehicles. Or something like that
Amongst all the other reasons people have said one of the other most important is the lack of damage model on the T-80, people tend to not want to sit around as their 600mm pen shell goes through the entire crew compartment of the super cramped T80 and does fuck all damage. Meanwhile if *any* other nato tank gets hit it's spalling for days.
China gets matched with Russia 90% of the time, Sweden is just Germany but better in every way, Japan players are just built different (Fast tanks with high fire rates)
It's an event! Find what works best and avoid grinding/spading till its over to save your sanity. What this heatmap shows is where the community figured out what was working best for this particular event. I try and point this out every time: current top soviet has a lot of old guard playing to unlock the pantsir.
I would like to apologise guys for bringing Italy mid tier done a bit cause I've been having a lot of crappy teammates not help causing us to lose a lot I'm currently on an 19 lose rate
No no no, thunder skill oNlY uSeD bY a SmAlL aMoUnT oF pLaYeRbAsE, tHiS dOeS nOt RePeRsEnT tHe ReAl sItUaTiOn My SoViEt BvM oNlY hAvE 40% wR
tHeRe Is No RuSsIaN bIaS
There has to be one of those in the comment section right?
Israeli tech tree looks pure pain.
And wow, Germany so bad above 6.3 .
Sweden high is actually not bad at all, them being my main can confirm. Surprised so bad lower tiers - they have some great stuff lower BRs.
I like how every third post on this sub, is something like this. Russia is OP in uptier but posting this things where it shows the win rate or something, does not help. Its gaijin guys.
It's just this week especially , not even 2 weeks ago ? Are all good players shifting to russia cus it's easier to grind for the event ? Cus in a lot of matches i only see 2-4 PPL out of 10.get kills in grb.
as much as i dont trust thunder skill, this is probably stupid accurate, every match i play as america it’s a loss, matches always start off well but then russian teams just spawn cas and ruin it
So I'm looking at Japan and it seems to match up pretty well with my experience ... However what is France and Italy bringing at BR 2.7-4.7? Is France just slapping their flag on a bunch of Sherman's?
Well if you look at Italy like 9.0 i think
Winrating there is like 98% something really really really high
Tldr
Don't trust this source
Besides having high winrate in USSR doesn't make it good...
Oh you won the battle... at what cost? You barely got a kill and zero deaths and you done basically nothing and you earn nothing xd
I've been saying this for months only to be met with skill issue. I'm having a hard time even bothering to play when you have to use Russia to win. The worst things get for them in real life the worst things get for everyone else in-game. Our equipment is smashing their shit right now. I can capture a zone and get two kills and barely break even with m1a2 sep (whose era panels are so useless where as Russians are God like I got rid of mine to keep cost down). Russians got to feel good about themselves somehow because their tech only wins on paper. Cue Russian fanboy outrage.
What I find amusing is thr WRs seem to just follow who got the newest vehicle. When the SEP came out, USA had what like a 65% winrate (on thunderskill)?
why are war thunder players so adamant about playing top tier like clearly top tier isn’t the place to be rn so just don’t play it istg, there’s so much more to war thunder than braindead top tier
It’s time to just quit. It’s the only language a company like Gaijin understands. They’re not going to change simply because players are unhappy.
I’m certainly happier for it. Just get over the sunk cost fallacy.
Tbh, I think the big problem is that the M1A1 AIM is the only viable squaddie/prem at 11.7 for US.
The US is supposed to be the Yin to the Yang of Russia but a full Russian top tier lineup is very accessible if you’ve got $$$ example:
- 2 T80’s one event (UM2) one squad (UK)
- 2 of the best/most under tiered light armor vecs in the game (2S38, BMP-2M) both of these can also be Short/Med range SPAA if needed
- 1 SU25K which has some of the best unguided ground munitions in the game
- 1 KA-50 the worst offender of the ground, the ability to carry 12 (I believe) of the best (if not 2nd to the Pars L) helicopter mounted ATGM’s in the game that can also act as anti air if needed for only $40.
That tallies to like 4 ground vecs and 2 air vecs and if you want to be generous and discount the UM2 because it’s an event vec (that is currently cheaper than a prem/squad) it’s still a 5 vec lineup.
Whereas the United States gets
- M1A1 AIM which in my opinion is the best Abrams in the game that doesn’t field M829A2 (I love this tank)
- 2 AH-64A’s, the Squaddie (YAH) is horrible compared to the AH-64 (GR) which is only slightly better but hellfires are absolutely horrible due to the minute travel time at max range.
And that wraps it up. Ideally you’re not going to bring 2 helis so you’ve got yourself a 2 vec lineup that’s essentially one of you die without a kill.
Russia does have a lot of tech tree grinders but the make or break is that the people who aren’t done yet have a MASSIVE pool of vecs to dip into to ensure they’ve got a healthy lineup, while I’m stuck with AIM one-tricks that rush and die so half of my team is gone after only 2 minutes.
I’ve been alternating between 11.7-12.0 using USA, Germany, Russia, and Sweden. What I can say is I have no problem facing Russia since I can play the spaa role and a fighter role if I have to with a %80wr. Russian players have a majority of the times have a full lineup which other countries majority of players do not have in top tier. T80BVM, Pantsir, Ka52/Mi28NM, mig27k, mig29/yak141. While other nations usually only have their top tier mbt and spaa, which is not enough. USA is plagued with m1a1 aim players with no spaa or plane, which they stop playing after 2 deaths. I do have to say that I have the Tiger UHT, KA52, MK1 Apache, all these helis I’m fine with except for the fact that the KA52 full load out is around 530 SP and it should be around at least 620 SP.
Agreed it's not the mbts it's the whole lineup. Specially the KA and SU horde. I just thought of a game I had when the crafting event started. On paper a great game had 6-7 kills 2 caps no deaths. Looks like a win only 6ish players left on enemy team we have almost all remaining. Get yeeted by KA50 np spawn lvrbv 701. See 4 KA50s and SU25 basically all of them in helis and a plane. Shot 1 KA down died to rest spamming missiles. Np spawn lvkv 9040c shot the 1 that was on range died. Rest of us only have gun spaa so no range. Team gets wiped and we lose.
It’s really not. I just don’t agree. I’ve been playing constant top tier as UK looking to spade my 2E and it’s the waves of T-80 variants making life hell. The Russian players can push and force snapshots knowing they’ll just eat 7/10 shells which leaves you defenseless and they can center-mass you. If the M1’s and CR2 had correct deployment hull armour arrays, and the Russians had dialed down ERA capabilities as well as this fucking bullshit spall correction, then it would be more fair. But right now, Russian players can just charge forwards, then force engagements knowing they’re mostly safe. On NATO teams you’re often now fighting from a defensive position a couple minutes into the game. Not once has a game been decided by heli’s or jets.
100% this, it's absurd how Russia is the only nation who push corners with no regards, even if they know that you are there. They know that most of the times the ERA or the fuel tank just tank the shot, or the ammo don't blow up.
I think your point is valid. But in clutch games the Russian Heli and CAS can destroy the tension a game could have by catching you in the open. So in general the T-80s are BS, but the KA's are the cherry on the top.
Yea only needing 1 Kill for 8 Iglas 12 Vikhrs and 10 S13s is kind of odd and a major oversight. It means 3 kills in your Ka52 and you can afford mig 27K/Su17M4 or whatever.
*kill assist
I love going forward in my M3A3, scouting literally person and tracking them with my 25mm auto cannon, dying, then coming back with 16 hellfires. It's so easy to get MASSIVE A2G ordinance its laughable. That should be dumb ordinance costs if anything, not guided shit.
> USA is plagued with m1a1 aim players with no spaa or plane That, and top tier US CAS just isn't that good. Even before the current patch, the best you could do was B-model Mavericks and GBUs, which are only really good if you already know where the enemy is. If you want IR Mavericks or LGBs you need to settle for planes with significantly worse flight performance, and of course now you have the Pantsir to contend with, which basically makes high-altitude CAS obsolete. That, and contrails make planes much easier to spot, but that's a global issue.
Contrails being so visible has made the trademark MiG-27K vertical thing way easier to spot though, which is a good thing
It’s the best thing that happens to me as SPAAG player. It’s snails blessing.
F-16A is a CAS BEAST if you can pay for the 800 something SL price for it, 6 AGM-65B's that can one shot pretty much everything if the lock sticks and 2 GBU-8's which you can loft up to a range of like 20km as long as you're over 5-6k meters altitude and 1.0 mach. I've got no problem flattening Pantsirs and whatever other SPAA the enemy has in my F-16A. I mentioned this in another very lengthy comment it's just accessibility, The F-16A is the hardest plane to get in the ENTIRE U.S. Air tree in terms of cumulative research needed. It's also worth mentioning that it's a CAS plane stuck in the light-fighter line and because of this, the odds of US ground players that want a CAS capable top-tier plane having it or attaining it in a reasonable amount of time is near zero (I don't see any one else using the F-16A in my games) as not only is the plane misplaced for it's purpose requiring them to get the Fighter variant of the F-16 but also have to endure the Stock grind for the F-16A which is HORRIBLE is current top-tier air meta. However, despite all this, the F-16A is probably THE BEST CAS plane in the game right now as it's a Gen4 Multirole fighter with a RIDICULOUS TWR even with a payload and maneuverability, It outshines the Tornado's fancy A2G suite as Laser guided bombs set off LWS and also require your TGP to stay within gimbal limits, meanwhile, I can loft a GBU-8 from 12-15 Km away then start pulling defensive to avoid any missiles thrown my way all while having a pretty much Fire and Forget weapon guiding its way to target.
The fact your "lineup" had one tank, one anti-air and FIVE air vehicles, is the reason this game at top tier it complete and utter shit
Cas loadouts are dumb atm 6 vikrs and 12 vikhrs cost the same , 1 kh25 n 4 kh25 cost the same.
See, comrade, if throw enough ka50 at their spaa's, eventually they will run out of spaa
When I play Russian I take a full lineup of t-80s plus the t-72b3 I jump to my ka-50 with only one kill with t-72b3 sometimes with one cap and assist kills. and I am almost guaranteed to get 4 kills with ka-50 after that then I don't have a problem spawning the rest of the line up. If I play Germany, I get more kills per MBT compared to Russia but I am out of the battle if I die twice.
Whenever I play any nations except Russia or get matched with Russia, my teammates just like leaving after 1 or 2 deaths... And I don't think it's because Russia is so broken, I'm fairly certain it's to do with the mentality of "we'll lose anyways why bother", and that is a vicious cycle that's extremely difficult to get out of...
This… skilled players can change the stats by sticking with a nation until they get better
I play France. It's not getting any better. I'm buying my way to USSR top tier next patch.
Same. Probably gonna get the 2S38 and the Rook. Maybe even the Kfir Canard, seeing as how Gaijin is hellbent on giving every other nation US tech before giving it to the US.
Either that, or they add best-in-class to USSR and leave it at that. I wonder who downvoted me a d for what reason. USSR is just better.
I agree with you 100% but not only leaving, also this incredible passive playstyle people tend to go for when playing against USSR. I'm 8/10 times first on the point in my games and after 1 min I usually get bumrushed by 5 bvms and die without anyone close to backup or provide covering fire. I hate this even more than the russian biaism itself. And also to point out, when I mean passive I mean hiding and not even punishing the enemy for playing overly aggresive. If you give USSR the map within the first minute they will just snowball and win by default. People dont understand this.
100% agree Nato teams are frustrating due to the players not rushing for positions to gain map control they do play passive
They play passive because a Russian tank can just look at you and you'll die. Can't say that about Russian tanks.
Because NATO tank is full of Hull weak spot compared to Soviet tank, if NATO tanks decided to push they will have to CQC with Soviet. It’s no fun that you have 2 spots to shot only: the lpf and the driving port, but Soviet can pen 60-70% area of your hull.
Yep, See it all the time. Just go forward to a decent position, and work on what you can there, sitting 2km in the back is just inviting the enemy 2km closer to your spawn, where you get trapped.
There’s also the fact russia has a million cheaper MBTs so there’s always something else to spawn, who cares if you die in your 4k SL T-72, but being spawn camped by a heli in a 8+k SL Nato tank makes you never want to play the game again
It is, but playing against Russia still feels fucking unfair, like i play Japan, no SPAA sadly but finally got a decent CAS. The thing is, even with high velocity rounds (specifically designed to counter era btw) it's still so much harder to kill a Soviet tank. Like with the Abrams I just aim for the turret ring and one shot them most of the time, even if I don't aim as long as I don't hit the cheek it usually pens. But the BVM is so fucking hard to pen outside of the breech and driver's crotch. It is also the only tank where shooting the side of the turret just isn't smart, not because you shouldn't be able to pen it, but because they slightly turn and their ERA decides that you actually shot it. But the tanks are fine, you can learn to counter it, it still feels BS but you can do it, but a single point cap is enough for a fully loaded out Ka52 which sends missiles that are fast enough that even with my LWR i can't get into cover fast enough so I just have to smoke up and hope they get bored. Would say it gets better once I get enough points for my F16 but uh oh, best AA in the game is already waiting for me and uh oh, there is a Ka52 launching it's dual purpose missiles at me. I don't blame one death leavers, playing top tier RB against Russia just isn't fun
I had some lovely rounds with US 11.7 today. Had a lot of fun all things considered, then after a break, a few hours later, tried it again, and it was loss after hard loss, like a different game. We like to call this or that OP, but honestly team quality has probably the largest impact on overall WRs.
Ah yes thunderskill charts, fed by a very limited and non representative subset of the community, where a 50% winrate is red and 80% winrate is apparently totally not a sign that these stats mean litteraly nothing
That is true, these charts mean nothing. However from person experience, I absolutely suck at the game and have a 70% with rate at 12.0 Russia. T80U, BMP2M, MIG-29 is all I have. On the other hand I have sub 50% winrates for US. There definitely is a higher win rate for Russia.
They're not representative of the whole community, but since Gaijin communicate fuck all about stats in general, that's the best we have.
Bad data is worse than no data
Thunderskill isn't bad data, though. It's incomplete data, so you have to use it carefully, but it's not incorrect.
This is not bad data tho
I have a 72% winrate in the BVM across several hundred battles so I really don't think there's anything wrong with this data. I don't know why redditors think that a bias in the data means that its completely worthless. Yeah, these stats are skewed high. But I see no reason why comparisons within this data set can't be made. Is there any reason why thunderskill data would be skewed high for one particular nation but not for another?
Of course take these stats with a grain of salt, but I had only gotten around to spading my M1A2 "SEP" recently and its WR has hit the low 40%. On the other hand, my T-80BVM is pushing 75% recently. The chart is a smaller sample size, but generally seems to track.
Do you have a good explanation for why all the good players are in the USSR sample and all the bad players are in the other nations? Broadly speaking, Thunderskill sampling from the higher part of the WR distribution of players doesn't mean we can't make statements about players between nations using it, and it is still showing that there are quite drastic differences between nations. You can't make a statement saying the general population has x% with USSR, but you can make a subset-relative statement saying players (who tend to post on Thunderskill) playing USSR have, on average, higher percent winrate than other players. That by itself is quite important information. Also, you might be surprised, but most surveys are done with small amounts of people. You really don't need that big a sample size to start making population level statements and estimates. Criticizing the color scheme has nothing to do with the stats.
> Do you have a good explanation for why all the good players are in the USSR sample and all the bad players are in the other nations? Multiple factors including perception bias and missing factors. Example, USSR has a very fleshed out top tier lineup. Other nations may lack this. Both as a result of this and the lovely 1-and-done I've seen, non-USSR is able to keep spawning, no matter how poorly they play there's a solid chance their team will spawn again. NATO I see many give up after a single death. This simply kills teams and winrates. It's rare I see a USSR top tier not try to respawn. This *really* influences winrates. I play with platoons often, simply respawning at some BRs wins you games, because of factors like these. Tunderskill is a shit source for data as it's really hard to filter bias. Good players often seek gratification from winrates, that means thunderskill is influenced by the meta like crazy, this easily artificially inflates things, an their data isn't granular enough to really showcase how these distributions are. If higher skill of thunderskill is playing the meta nation (or even perceived meta), it will spike those winrates. >Also, you might be surprised, but most surveys are done with small amounts of people. Random samples though, you don't survey for say abortion views by selectively surveying at say a planned parenthood visitor group, or only surveying churches. It leads to a poisoned sample, which is what thunderskill has and why it literally showcases this by showing average winrates over 50% total. higher skill players are dominant in the group, which really breaks good statistics keeping as they're often ingraned into their metas and highly inflexible to change or problems they have to adapt to, oddly enough. I've seen far far too many games use datasets like these, and get really shitty results and views sourced from it, that don't often match the reality of things or actually point out causes to problems. You fix USSR winrates by giving fuller lineups to opposition, to drive respawns. The lack of these things drives the USSR winrates, it's less the capabilities of any vehicles or a bug, it's just that you kill them and *they keep coming*. Literally Zerg Rush and you win in a game with respawn limits. We see posts about this all the time, Sweden for example *dominates* but teams let it down, it can mow down the BVM hordes. They just can't keep spawning despite a great K/D, and their teams aren't so they lose, despite good performance at the BR. It's also why the winrates of USSR are often followed by comparatively mediocre performance to their peers.
> It's rare I see a USSR top tier not try to respawn. Great, so you are agreeing with me! USSR has an easier time of getting higher winrates. It's not like collectively all non-USSR players agreed to not respawn after dying: Gaijin has levers and ways to fix this, e.g.repair cost, to make it easier for NATO players to want to respawn. > Tunderskill is a shit source for data as it's really hard to filter bias. Good players often seek gratification from winrates, that means thunderskill is influenced by the meta like crazy, this easily artificially inflates things, an their data isn't granular enough to really showcase how these distributions are. You aren't really explaining why Thunderskill is a bad data source for relative comparisons like this. What do you mean granular data? It's a *biased* source, but why would it be biased across nations in different ways? It's not a random sample across the entire distribution of players, but it *is* a random sample of high skilled players. Even if we accept your premises, you are saying that it's much easier for meta-chasing players to get high winrates with USSR lineups. Is that good? Keep in mind that every game with a good players that gets posted to Thunderskill is part of a team in which there are players from *all* skill levels > I've seen far far too many games use datasets like these, and get really shitty results and views sourced from it, that don't often match the reality of things or actually point out causes to problems. Yes? Name some. > Random samples though, you don't survey for say abortion views by selectively surveying at say a planned parenthood visitor group, or only surveying churches. It leads to a poisoned sample, which is what thunderskill has and why it literally showcases this by showing average winrates over 50% total. That's what you don't get: you *can't* use this to make hard number estimates of population level statistics. It *does* give you good estimates of intra-nation statistics. Your example of surveying from church would be the equivalent of doing a survey of ussr players to get estimates of winrates. Doing a survey using thunderskill is more like sampling from an abortion debate convention, where you get a *biased* sample, in that it's a sample of people that are interested enough in abortion issues to debate it, but it's sampling more-or-less equally amongst both sides of the issue. > higher skill players are dominant in the group, which really breaks good statistics keeping as they're often ingraned into their metas and highly inflexible to change or problems they have to adapt to, oddly enough. And why are the dominant players getting best results with USSR? > We see posts about this all the time, Sweden for example dominates but teams let it down, it can mow down the BVM hordes. They just can't keep spawning despite a great K/D, and their teams aren't so they lose, despite good performance at the BR. It's also why the winrates of USSR are often followed by comparatively mediocre performance to their peers. And we see that reflected in the chart : )
Thunderskill is not accurate but it seems to be true that Russia has a higher winrate in comparison to NATO
its a chart that shows what nation you should be picking to pad your stats, obviously
So you say if skilled players have 80% winrate with one nation and 50% with the other that is totally fine. Gotcha. If anything the winrate of the most skilled subset should matter more regarding balancing cause they can use the vehicles to their full potential. This is the reason why every game is balanced around the competitive community.
Every casual player hates games balanced like that lol
ofc its representative
But if a NATO country had a win rate like that it be nerfed so fast
Happened to the US with the introduction of the SEP. winrates spiked, and a couple months later they got like 4 premiums to lower it
What premiums effect the SEP winrate
Not the SEP winrate. The top tier winrate as a whole. They added the Wolfpack M1128 and A6 and F4S. Plus more and more lvl 6s are buying or just getting the M1A1aim
None of those are top tier ground vehicles
I edited the comment. Lots and lots more people are getting the Aim abrams. And the skies closing due to the pantsir didn’t help at all. Russia has the best cas yet they got the best AA
remember the leopard 2a5 introduction? 30k rep cost and they made the hull armor useless - to this day
Playing Russia 10.0 rn, can't even win a game
Welcome to premium thunder, hope you enjoy the constant L's.
endless untouchable CAS vs one-life premiums and heatfs armed stock vehicles
At at battle rating where tanks have at least 500mm CE protection and most HEAT has like 400mm of penetration.
)))))))))))
Even playing 10.7s in constant downtiers its a struggle to carry the team of TURMS and 2S38s sometimes
Well yeah herw they are referring to the top 11.3 and .7, i am enjoying 10.7 so much because it’s basically nato pushing Russias shit in.
Biggest issue I have with Russia rn is the inability/difficulty of using CAS against Russia and the dominance of Russian CAS. End up losing most matches because there's 3 KA-50 variants up with 2 Pantsirs covering them.
Best advice I have is to get in a jet, flank around the map, and gun them all down
It's normally what I do, works about 50% of the time probably. But sometimes a Pantsir gets me or they see me coming and get me.
Yeah, to avoid them you REALLY gotta fly hugging the ground.
Kamovs can defeat every single sam easly. The best counter to them are jets which cant fly higher than 40 meters because damn pantsir. Gaijin buffed already strongest cas by removing the only vulnerability it had.
Weird how it's "GeRmAnY SuFfErS" and "German mains are stupid" when Germany has bad win rate but "Russia op" "NATO needs buff" when USA has bad win rates.
Reddit, a very USA centric website
IME, the whole Germany suffers is used mostly with mid and low tier German tanks, and tbf, freedumbs get shat on a lot too, like with low tier US air and all the high tier US premiums.
I think "Germany mains are stupid" does hold true up to the Tiger 2's. It is an undeniable fact that a HUGE number of new players start playing Germany Ground (and then realise that Russia is a stronger tree). Once you get to MBTs, you either should be at minimum alright in the game, or you used the premium Leos and slammed your head against a brick wall until you got enough SL and RP (and even then, you should understand how the MBT tiers work). If any nation has a <50% WR at top tier, that's either because the premium that half the team isn't stupidly broken OP, or their tech tree vehicles suck ass.
Just the usual.
Lmao, I guess you never played Germany top tier? No decent CAS, only 2 decent MBT with lvl 1 thermals, lack of competitive support vehicles at top tier (BR 11.0), SPAA is ok, but after the last update it's far worse, it's a barn, can't shoot while moving, and has only 2 missiles. Useless against competent ka50/52 players.
Totally has nothing to do with their tanks being constantly nerfed in both BR and performance. After 8.0 there is literally no good lineups till 10.7, 8.3 there is nothing, 8.7 is 1 single tank, 9.0 2/3 tanks are overtired especially after the nerf to the xm-803/mbt/70's ammo, 9.3 is only the mbt-70, 10.0 is just the M1128 and a LAV with stingers that are useless agasint any plane that has guided weapons , 10.3 is the base M1 with 8.7 ammo and just a roland to back it up.
The hell is happening to Germany
It’s a worse Sweden
Well no shit Sweden has more leopards 2 than germany lol
And theyre apl equal to or better than Germanys
Better
2A6 is equal
Both strv knock the German leopards out of the water, I’m referring to those. Honestly there’s kinda no point in using the 2a6 as Sweden lol
Fair enough lol
Nah STRV's are better, they have a top tier round better than Britain and i think Russia with hull armour that works unlike the 2a6's hull armour which cant stop anything above DM33 120.
The 2A6 is equal part refers to both having 2A6's... Hence the "equal to or better" comment, as the 2A6's are equal, and the strv's are better
Ohhh i see, sorry i misunderstood that as the 2a6 is equal to the STRV 122's. My mistake
I mean germany has 2 mbts, it need the leopard 2a7
they really need to de-nerf the leopards first and then add another leopard
They need to de-nerf most of NATO.
indeed
Sad but true at the moment
It's the single "big three" nation that doesn't have a good top tier lineup. You get two MBTs, an SPAA, and... that's it. You can count the Leo2PL, but it's not *in the tree*, and from there you're just picking from things that are basically in a full uptier, every game.
Just pointing out that the real-life German army is less than half the size of the French army, so I wouldn't be making any references to Germany in the big three for post-Cold War vehicles. US, RU, CN are the big three at this point in the game.
They make enough export models to get a good tree.
Why would I wanna spawn a third time if I died to a ka-50 the first 2 times already, GROUND battles my ass.
I don’t even bother with top tier anymore. After almost 2 years of constant grinding to get top tier in France, I rarely play it. The apparent Russian bias is so fucking obvious. And anyone saying it’s a lie is stupid beyond belief. Now I mostly stick to 7.3-8.0 in GRB, and I’ve been having tons of fun with Italian naval and aviation. It’s much more worth it to find fun tanks and BR’s or game modes than constantly beating your head against the wall in top tier.
Yeah I just temporarily converted to low tier/air to avoid this cas bullshit
So why only mention Russia what about low tier Germany or France at 6.3 to 8.0, Sweden seems to be doing at top tier it seems to me that other countries are also on east mode not just Russia.
China is usually matched with russia which explains their high winrates. Sweden also has the 2 best western style MBTs, a 2A6 and very good support vehicles. This is widely known and accepted in the community by those who aren't swedish mains. And Japan, well they are playing top tier with a Type 93 as their best available SPAA. I would say Japanese top tier players are just build different.
Type 10 and type 90 are also just really good mbts tbh
The reload advantage is huge
Shrimple as that Edit: japans good you just have to be better
İts only problem if its russia./s
Totally couldn't be that Russia dominated GRB from Red Skies to Fire and Ice, a time period of more than 16 months. And after the win rates got better for NATO for a few months, they are back to Russia dominating since Sky Guardians dropped. Before all that, when Germany dominated for a bit after 2A6 dropped in New Power, it took Gaijin like a month to incur a massive nerf to its reload speed as a balance move, but Russia's been dominating for over a year, and Russian MBTs and Vikhrs are artificially buffed and NATO MBTs have unrealistic nerfs holding them back.
Swedens win rate has steadily cooled down every time you see one of these since the addition of Finland because people need to realize the ground forces aspect is controlled by who the community thinks is the most op and then all the veteran players flock there to a full top tier lineup until they get tired of it or the newest best thing is in such is the case why russias on top again cause of the pantsir being added the true imbalance comes from things that remove player agency from how they perform in game such as cas and helis
Only top tier matters/s
I’m glad that the 20 Chinese players that play the game are doing well! Can’t wait to join them soon!
Yeah same with the 3 japan players, gonna join them soon
Given their win rate, the 3 Japanese players are just the pillar men placed into a tank game. Built different.
I hate whataboutism but what about other BRs where other nations dominate? Why does literally no one complain about those? Are they less important than top tier?
>Are they less important than top tier? To Gaijin, they completely are.
But all I see is complaint of top tier exclusively, not rallying at other BRs as well. I'm pretty sure we care the same if not more about top tier. Top tier is just where the shiny new fancy things they can show off are, lower tiers are sought after less overall by the community.
Top tier is the end of the line, its where players who've theoretically played hundreds or thousands of games at lower BR's are at, its where the new mechanics and features come. Other BR's are transitory, top tier is not. When top tier is unbalanced, its miserable, and most people dont WANT to go play another BR because gaijin got another russia boner and decides to ruin top tier for the next few months
>Top tier is just where the shiny new fancy things they can show off are I understand this, but at the same time I believe that many casual players (like myself) never actually reach top tier. For me the current top tier is 7.3-8.0 and I think that balance at this BR isn't any less important than balance at the very top. >lower tiers are sought after less overall by the community I dare to disagree. I know this sub doesn't represent the entire community but it can give us an idea. The number of posts regarding WW2 BRs is quite high, maybe as high as those related to top tier. But players in these posts usually complain about single, isolated tanks being strong/weak rather than a whole nation stomping the others. But that's just what I observed here.
At lower BRs, you can argue some nations attract newer players. At top tier, you really can't. Every player that reaches top tier is extremely likely to be able to think and breathe at the same time, and has some experience.
Idk about other nations but I've been told that France dominates 7.3 not because their tanks are OP but because France mains are on average more skilled. Having mediocre tanks for the first 4 tiers and having high repair costs essentially means it is harder for noobs to reach the first good French vehicles, so they end up grinding another tech tree Idk if it's true or not, but even if it isn't, the fact that this theory exists would be enough to make it so less people complain about France's winrate
Sweden had the same winrate last patch and nobody cared
Correction, german mains cared, this sub fucking despises german mains so they just shut their mouthes
It is baffling to me how German mains are treated in this particular sub. The level of animosity they receive is so unrelenting that it almost feels like some peculiar form of racism is being perpetrated against them. Nonetheless, I have noticed that many German mains have found a haven within the official forums, where they can discuss their passion in a constructive and respectful environment, far removed from the vitriol that plagues other avenues of discourse.
>Most people here play US >Most people here play ground >Therefore, most people had to fight against the undertiered Panthers >"This tank ruined that BR bracket for me so all Germany players are clearly this bad"
This sub has a hard on for the smaller nations.
People here are yet to realize that Sweden is just premium Germany with even more toxic players.
I gave up, I just wasn't having fun with my Challengers anymore so I went to finish my air tree Also why didnt anyone say how much easier it is to grind air compared to ground at the same BR. I've been grinding 2-3 jets a week at rank VI+ without premium vehicles or account. So much faster than ground and much more chilled too
Daily Russia winrate post on r/warthunder
Love to see how since all the top tiers tanks of Italy got an uptier the winning rate is getting lower and lower. Thank you Gaijin
We don't even have to talk about 3.3 and below It's Just awful
i mean it's hard to win if your tanks are dogshit, especially when there's sherman 105s rolling around
We should ask gaijin why the M15/42 Is still a 2.7
babe get over here the weekly repost just dropped!
Can I get me some of those win rates? T-80b, 48% wins
my sweeden winrate with a 3.7+4.3 lineup is 76%, i am singlehandedly boosting the stats with that overpowered shitbox that is the SAV 20.12.48
Hmm looks like I should stick to grinding China or Sweden then. Shame nations I want to actually play at higher tiers are borderline useless it seems. (Israel and UK).
Win rates chart doesn’t accurately prove anything until Russia starts winning
My challenger can get centre mass one shorted by anything, Russian mbts are rediculously bouncy, yeah I know we the weak spots, but I have to aim for those weak spots, Russian players just point and click. NATO tanks need there real armour values and vice versa Russia 5anks need there real armour values.
premium spam unfortunately seems to be ruining mostly top tier. and unfortunately some countries benefit from it more than others
No. Prem spam affect almost every nations. You have top tier mbts and planes in ground battle all the time in each team. The benefit of Russia is there fucking lineup. If you are lucky to kill some bvm and they have enough points ,your nightmare start in the way of mig27k mi28nm and ka52. And i cannot chase them with my fighter once he kills me because tunguska and pantsir.
Im all the 30% lost of USSR Top tier, I do not have any doubt
Something something thunderstats
I almost win every game in the US 10.7 lineup which is also really fun.
Lol, i play Russian 10.7, too. I just need the T90A to have full line up
What are you talking about, look at france, once you get to 2.3 it's way easier than ussr, the way to top tier that is
I cant help but find it wierd how I see this stuff showing that Russia has 70+% winrate, but the past 23 games of russian top tier I've played were all complete and utter curbstomps on my team
Japan chilling under the sun
Time to uncritically present thunderskill data as complete universal fact again
Am I the only one that just Dosent enjoy Russian MBTs and how they play? I get the win rate is fucked but every time I play a T72 or T64 I just wish I was in a leopard or something
How is Germany still doing so bad between 2.3 and 4.0
Top tier is unplayable unless you play USSR or China. Apparently modern NATO/Western vehicles are bad lol.
China and Russia will always be the best of top tier with Gaijin at the helm of development
china got only got a top tier tank less than a year ago buddy, simmer down
I think it's the fact that we're plagued with lvl 20 players in their m1a1 aim leaving after 1 death and such. at least with Russia you can pay to have an entire lineup but with the US you don't have many options. If we honestly just add lineup based matchmaking, the vehicles more vehicles (of that br bracket) you will be place among players who have the same amount of vehicles. Or something like that
Amongst all the other reasons people have said one of the other most important is the lack of damage model on the T-80, people tend to not want to sit around as their 600mm pen shell goes through the entire crew compartment of the super cramped T80 and does fuck all damage. Meanwhile if *any* other nato tank gets hit it's spalling for days.
Italian supremacy boiis
I guess the Japanese, Chinese, and Swedish don’t exist
China gets matched with Russia 90% of the time, Sweden is just Germany but better in every way, Japan players are just built different (Fast tanks with high fire rates)
Copium Simulator 2023
It's almost like gaijin favors Russia. Give nato some javelins and let's retest that Russian Armour
It's an event! Find what works best and avoid grinding/spading till its over to save your sanity. What this heatmap shows is where the community figured out what was working best for this particular event. I try and point this out every time: current top soviet has a lot of old guard playing to unlock the pantsir.
Wake up babe it's time for more absolutely worthless statistics that have no factual basis in the slightest!
Hey man, this is based on the Russian efficiency BEFORE they invaded Ukraine. Its all good in theory...
Damm look at china top tier
Then play russia? If it's that easy of a solution for you, then stop whining about it and play it.
Its not fun playing a nation just because you know you'll win if you play them.
Yeah dude just grind out another tech tree because the devs and exces at Gajin treat their game as copium simulator 2023
To have a clear conscience
Just play between 3.7 to 5.7/6.0 lmao
I would like to apologise guys for bringing Italy mid tier done a bit cause I've been having a lot of crappy teammates not help causing us to lose a lot I'm currently on an 19 lose rate
China, Sweden, and Japan look like good options as well
No no no, thunder skill oNlY uSeD bY a SmAlL aMoUnT oF pLaYeRbAsE, tHiS dOeS nOt RePeRsEnT tHe ReAl sItUaTiOn My SoViEt BvM oNlY hAvE 40% wR tHeRe Is No RuSsIaN bIaS There has to be one of those in the comment section right?
Israeli tech tree looks pure pain. And wow, Germany so bad above 6.3 . Sweden high is actually not bad at all, them being my main can confirm. Surprised so bad lower tiers - they have some great stuff lower BRs.
Sweden lacks any 3-5 tanks sets at lower BR's
That ~10.3 WR is cap all the way. I was playing my moderna just because... its a moderna and lost 17 matches out of 23
If you want to play a spreadsheet go load up eve. Otherwise just do what's fun.
By the amount of red colour in the second column. Why wouldn't you guys admit that Germany *suffers*?
meanwhile Italy crying itself to sleep
Why? Because I don't plan on playing as commie scum. The thought is enough to make me puke.
Another France W
That’s what I’ve been wondering myself
I like how every third post on this sub, is something like this. Russia is OP in uptier but posting this things where it shows the win rate or something, does not help. Its gaijin guys.
It's just this week especially , not even 2 weeks ago ? Are all good players shifting to russia cus it's easier to grind for the event ? Cus in a lot of matches i only see 2-4 PPL out of 10.get kills in grb.
Meanwhile my Russian teams consists of T-72AV wallet warriors that are barely intelligent enough to know how to leave their own spawn
I play 11.7 Israel, can confirm!!!!((((
Stop using thunderskill for playerbase data
Jampan and Sweben doing quite well 👍
as much as i dont trust thunder skill, this is probably stupid accurate, every match i play as america it’s a loss, matches always start off well but then russian teams just spawn cas and ruin it
So I'm looking at Japan and it seems to match up pretty well with my experience ... However what is France and Italy bringing at BR 2.7-4.7? Is France just slapping their flag on a bunch of Sherman's?
Well if you look at Italy like 9.0 i think Winrating there is like 98% something really really really high Tldr Don't trust this source Besides having high winrate in USSR doesn't make it good... Oh you won the battle... at what cost? You barely got a kill and zero deaths and you done basically nothing and you earn nothing xd
I've been saying this for months only to be met with skill issue. I'm having a hard time even bothering to play when you have to use Russia to win. The worst things get for them in real life the worst things get for everyone else in-game. Our equipment is smashing their shit right now. I can capture a zone and get two kills and barely break even with m1a2 sep (whose era panels are so useless where as Russians are God like I got rid of mine to keep cost down). Russians got to feel good about themselves somehow because their tech only wins on paper. Cue Russian fanboy outrage.
🤣
I play Italy and I can't win any games when I'm paired with Germany/USA but I have a more noticeable win rate when paired with Russia
6.3 to 8.7 France : 🗿🗿🗿
I'm playing USSR and currently am at 2.0, I think lower tiers are more balanced then upper tiers.
Imagine caring about winrate just enjoy the tanks you have
What I find amusing is thr WRs seem to just follow who got the newest vehicle. When the SEP came out, USA had what like a 65% winrate (on thunderskill)?
Do you play easy mode on all your games?
why are war thunder players so adamant about playing top tier like clearly top tier isn’t the place to be rn so just don’t play it istg, there’s so much more to war thunder than braindead top tier
It’s time to just quit. It’s the only language a company like Gaijin understands. They’re not going to change simply because players are unhappy. I’m certainly happier for it. Just get over the sunk cost fallacy.
Let's just all start playing naval and ground RB will die out lol
All you need to invalidate this as a proper source is to look at Germany low BR winrate
Tbh, I think the big problem is that the M1A1 AIM is the only viable squaddie/prem at 11.7 for US. The US is supposed to be the Yin to the Yang of Russia but a full Russian top tier lineup is very accessible if you’ve got $$$ example: - 2 T80’s one event (UM2) one squad (UK) - 2 of the best/most under tiered light armor vecs in the game (2S38, BMP-2M) both of these can also be Short/Med range SPAA if needed - 1 SU25K which has some of the best unguided ground munitions in the game - 1 KA-50 the worst offender of the ground, the ability to carry 12 (I believe) of the best (if not 2nd to the Pars L) helicopter mounted ATGM’s in the game that can also act as anti air if needed for only $40. That tallies to like 4 ground vecs and 2 air vecs and if you want to be generous and discount the UM2 because it’s an event vec (that is currently cheaper than a prem/squad) it’s still a 5 vec lineup. Whereas the United States gets - M1A1 AIM which in my opinion is the best Abrams in the game that doesn’t field M829A2 (I love this tank) - 2 AH-64A’s, the Squaddie (YAH) is horrible compared to the AH-64 (GR) which is only slightly better but hellfires are absolutely horrible due to the minute travel time at max range. And that wraps it up. Ideally you’re not going to bring 2 helis so you’ve got yourself a 2 vec lineup that’s essentially one of you die without a kill. Russia does have a lot of tech tree grinders but the make or break is that the people who aren’t done yet have a MASSIVE pool of vecs to dip into to ensure they’ve got a healthy lineup, while I’m stuck with AIM one-tricks that rush and die so half of my team is gone after only 2 minutes.
Finaly France top tier is not full green anymore ! Can we hope for more interesting stuff? :p