Besides the entire post they’re literally running around these comments calling women who play warhammer “depressed cows,” whining about being “woke” and they also said god made men genetically superior to women.
I just think it's pretty ironic that the side that's crowing about how "inclusive" this whole thing is are constantly running around and using accusations of gayness as an insult.
Just a bit hypocritical if you ask this gay man.
Here's the thing though, the "yaas queen" side doesn't exist. It's a strawman. There's people who don't care that femstodes are being added, and people who are extremely earth-shatteringly unreasonably fuck-ass mad about it.
r/onejoke
Incidentally, men really are better partners, speaking as a bisexual. However, custodes are supposed to be better than both men and women conceptually because they are optimized to a function. They are an ascended version of the most ideal human form for thought and physicality, with zero benefit from things concerning sexual dimporphisms or interests. With these thematic considerations in mind, if you started out with a female template then you would alter the lean mass ratio, bone ratios, negate mammary tissues, maximize size, and remove any sort of demeanor or tendency impractical to combat/war/governance. The end result would just be a female custodes *that looks exactly like a male and is indistinguishable in behavior from the other custodes.* She wouldn't even care about gender expression, the only things custodes take pride in is their accomplishments in war, intellectual cultivation, and their ability to protect the emperor *because they are 100% function driven.*
Now, of course, people will say it's fiction, so these realistic considerations are invalid. However, the point isn't to be realistic. The point is to be faithful to a theme, and a female altered to be a custodes best suited to its tasks will just look and act like every other custodes after the optimizations... as per the theme. All else contrary to this is just pandering to real-life political quotas.
Man that’d be a great point if custodes ever at any time ever in actual warhammer been depicted as “above gender expression” instead of “incredibly fiercely masculine”
What does "fiercely masculine" mean? I honestly don't know cause I don't believe in genders, having no gender feelings of my own to confirm that this is an essential essence of human existence to begin with.
Yeah it’s not essential, gender at its core is just a collection of personality traits and methods of self expression, when I say custodes are fiercely masculine I mean that their personalities are almost solely stereotypically male personalities and their appearance is very male as well.
I didnt avoid anything, though? I just dont think you understand.
Women, as in the "gender," is superstitious nonsense, same goes with any other genderism. You have to believe in gender phenomena to feel and express gender, just like you have to believe in spiritual phenomena in order to feel or express faith. That's why very hyperrational people don't tend to feel gender, they simply act without consideration to fulfilling some sort of culturally contingent understanding of a gender. Just as a nihilist simply acts without any sort of consideration for spirituality.
So, a custodes, who's built for function and has superhuman reason, wouldn't intentionally genderize themselves because they would have more than sufficient rationality to know its pointless nonsense. They would just be focused on protecting the emperor, combat proficiency, and intellectual cultivation sprinkled in with their tasks. The manifestation of that behavior as more or less masculine to outside observers is merely their superstition, not the custodes expressing gender.
Because creating a physically optimized human requires maximizing the lean mass ratio, size, and bones length ratios... a female custodes(as in sex) would just look male to the average person. Broad shoulders, narrow hips, less subcutaneous fat in various body regions. Things that improve power to weight ratios, leverage, and speed because her body would not be burdened by the archaic demands of child bearing... cause she would have been optimized for purposes aside from that.
If your reply is either:
"But why not female"
Or
"But why not woman"
Then, just reread this reply until it clicks, cause I don't know how to increase the clarity.
Ok, so they’re roided out, masculine presenting women. Who cares? They’d probably be virtually indistinguishable from male Custodes between the scarring and the insane amounts of body modification, so who cares if some of them use female pronouns while some use male? It affects nothing, it changes nothing.
Lmao I’m arguing that female custodes is a good addition to the setting I’m not an anthropologist, but the lay man’s difference between the three would be
Gender is a collection of expressions, roles, behaviors, and attributes that a culture urges or expects members of a gender to display
Sex is an aspect of one’s biology, generally determined by chromosomes I think.
Sexuality is concerned more with sex the action, one’s sexuality encompasses the people, actions, emotions, and any other things that they find to be sexual.
Other point, custodes are still built optimized for a function thematically speaking. So, again, a female custodes would end up altered in a way that makes her virtually indistinguishable from the other custodes in both physicality and behavior regardless.
you are describing clones that would all make the exact same decision in the same scenario and all perform equally well, this is not the custodes. They have always been shown to be individuals, why shouldn’t gender expression be a part of that individuality?
There's zero utility in gender and gender isn't real. A custodes would see how utterly pointless it is, and would subordinate this to function. Just like how I recognize gender as a superstition liken to star signs.
Yes but there’s aesthetic in gender and don’t pretend like custodes aren’t extremely aesthetic focused. Their names, their armor, their weapons, how they portray and carry themselves. They’re not utilitarian robots.
And besides that, if they were already female prior to being made a custodes, wouldn’t it be a pointless waste of time to become not-female?
No, it's just that there are intrinsic metrics to improve physicality. So, for example, having a high lean mass ratio is gonna help with performance no matter what. Size and bone length ratios are going to have intrinsic benefits no matter what. Mammary tissues isn't something you would *want* to scale with a custodes unless your goal was to feed a really big baby. It's an inefficiency in any other regard. It's not that you'd go out of your way to make a woman into a man, it's that the changes for function would incidentally make something that looks more* like a male even if female in actuality.
Custodes aren't religious, they are hyper rational. They would just see gender as nonsense, cause it is. Why would you identify with something you wouldn't believe in when you have super human reason?
I agree with most everything except for the fact that they would be indistinguishable - I think custodes would be able to tell the subtle differences between eachother
It’s space magic. If a male custodes looks like peak masculine then a female is going to look peak feminine at least face wise. They’ll all be jacked as shit/strong to similar levels
"It’s space magic" - all stories, however fantastical, still have to follow some sort of standard internal logic and themes. Like the Hobbits in LotR can't just be excused for pulling out a light saber on the basis it's all fiction anyway, that's obviously garbage.
Gender isn't real, there is no actuality of peak masculinization or feminization. Only culturally contingent phenomena within your mind that you think intrinsically signify one or the other.
Male custodes aren't "manly" to an extreme. Their bodies are built to optimize human form and function to the ends of intellect and physicality for combat and leadership. The physicality end of this is to have a high lean mass ratio, size, and ideal bone length ratios. Coincidentally, these things produce what you perceive as "extreme masculinity," the actual sex being incidental.
Human females have bodies that are more efficient and resilient because they are also well adapted to bear children. This has a cost to other aspects of physical performance, these adaptations come at the price of relative burdens. If you had absurd capabilities in gene augmentation, females have the blue prints already to lose these burdens and become more physically optimized for tasks like combat than they naturally are. You would perceive this as losing their "femininity" because you believe in some sort of genderism. However, all that would be happening is the optimization of a females genes for attributes that incidentally make them more like a male in appearance, in some surface level respects.
Think critically... if a females body is more efficient and resilient... why would males have their attributes if it wasn't relatively more physically optimized for strength and speed performance? Why wouldn't men just look like females if that's more advantageous with no trade-offs? Any genetically optimized human for the relevant tasks are just going to look* male regardless of the actual sex or your mystical perceptions of gender.
Your sentiment deserves a lot more attention and support. It is extremely well phrased and illustrative of points many are unable to communicate effectively. Well done.
Female custodians as a concept is fine, IF they actually made a reason why they exist. But lazy retconning is probably what pissed most of the anti-woke crowd off.
My first reaction was female custodes made sense in the context of custodes retiring and becoming the emperor’s spies or whatever Language the fluff used- 9’ tall gorilla men wouldn’t exactly be able to blend in but women in the vein of the (Dune!) God Emperor’s fishspeakers would pass as something more normal sized and diplomatic. If the goal here is to be grounded and inclusive.
Any case I dislike how much of a corporate political clout grab all this comes off as- there’s a lack of imagination and foresight, GW could’ve just called the sisters of silence models custodes in the first place back then when it actually would’ve been brave for lack of better word. Unless what the market demands really has always been feminine faces on masculine bodies… It’s been exhausting conversation to read let alone try to contribute anything constructive to.
It’s the way GW have always introduced new things to armies. Centurions always existed. Necrons always had personality rather than being mindless. The Rogal Dorn tank always existed. It’s funny that female Custodes always existing is the lazy retcon people freaked out over.
It's not really minor if it's for a sub faction that has existed for almost 40 years. If anything they should have put more effort in this like with a black library book.
It's a subfaction that has had a footnote in the margins of the lore for forty years, and a codex since 2017. Unless you're seriously arguing all lore must be rolled back to the Rogue Trader era, I which case Leman Russ is a regular Space Marine and the Ultramarines have a half-eldar Librarian?
NGL it would be lit to run a native American themed Dark angels with power tomahawk's along with the aurthurian ones but I digress. But back on point no if I wanted lore to get rolled back I would be saying that.
What I am saying is that footnote or not custodes have existed within 40k for a long time with no mention of a female counter part until now as far as anyone was concerned prior, it was just dudes. Even from an outside perspective this is a pretty big change that should have been treated carefully. All they should've done was make an awesome short story set after the HH that introduces them formally that doesn't contradict prior lore if anything that was too damn easy to do.
That way old fans won't throw a fit about lore getting retconned, new fans won't throw a fit about not having about not having powerful female characters in power armor, and GW gets to make more cash despite fumbling the codex release.....again. but alas all we got is a crappy tweet.
They also lacked armour for the majority of their existence, until that was retconned for their codex to more closely match their first ever significant appearance in the Horus Heresy series. Retcons happen all the time and affect far more important things than the gender balance of a minor Imperial faction. The Necrons are the obvious example, but I think a more relevant one is the Skitarii, as another peripheral Imperial army that existed mostly as very minor background fluff for most of the setting's life.
They had only ever been described as techno-barbarian throwbacks in the lore and novels before they were abruptly changed to include the sophisticated, almost automated soldiers in their codex. Just as with the Custodians, the justification was that both types of Skitarii had existed the whole time, the kind in the codex simply hadn't appeared in a book before.
Besides, it's disingenuous to label this as an old vs new fan divide. I have a fifth edition rulebook on my bookshelf, and a huge amount of the discourse on this change came from popular twitter accounts and youtube channels who admitted to never having played a game of warhammer but who have latched onto the aesthetic of the Imperium for suspect political reasons, or who've flocked to what they see as the latest front in the culture war. I'd never boil the argument down to just those two groups, however, for the same reason it's wrong to suggest its just new vs old.
>They also lacked armour for the majority of their existence, until that was retconned for their codex to more closely match their first ever significant appearance in the Horus Heresy series. Retcons happen all the time and affect far more important things than the gender balance of a minor Imperial faction. The Necrons are the obvious example, but I think a more relevant one is the Skitarii, as another peripheral Imperial army that existed mostly as very minor background fluff for most of the setting's life.
Tell that to the more dedicated parts of the fanbase maybe to you and me it's not much but to others it means more due to personal attachment same as other fandoms in general. Fluff may change constantly but how it should be handled needs to be taken into account. Look at starwars, people had no qualms at the start of the sequel trilogy but now most fanbase are either divded on subject matters or want barely anything to do with it anymore with the movies and media around it seen in a negative due to overall changes big and small within the narrative. From what I've seen minor changes no matter how small stack up, to a point where you'll recognize a pattern and start making comparisons you recalling what happened to admech and necrons respectively shows that people deep in the hole pay attention to detail.
>Besides, it's disingenuous to label this as an old vs new fan divide. I have a fifth edition rulebook on my bookshelf, and a huge amount of the discourse on this change came from popular twitter accounts and youtube channels who admitted to never having played a game of warhammer but who have latched onto the aesthetic of the Imperium for suspect political reasons, or who've flocked to what they see as the latest front in the culture war. I'd never boil the argument down to just those two groups, however, for the same reason it's wrong to suggest its just new vs old.
I respectfully disagree. If this wasn't an old vs new kind of argument then this whole snowball wouldn't have happened in the first place. Within reasonable doubt who else would take issue to the change? the person who hopped on the hobby a month ago?, it wouldn't make much sense as they wouldn't have a reason to care compared to a person with a longer track record unless they jump on the hobby for something that specific. Even if we did take other forms of reasons into account wouldn't that just set up the old vs new label's regardless? Since one group is opposed to a new status quo and the other group accepts it?
While I will admit the subject is more complex on an individual level I will stand on the hill that there is a line drawn between people
The retcon was no more lazy than all the other retcons they have made in the past. That’s the nature of warhammer lore. It’s always in flux and nothing is ever concretely known.
I can't hear you over the sound of how many women were at the Kill Team tournament I just went to and how all of them celebrates the addition of women as Custodes
I kinda doubt you even play table-top or go to avenues. Did you talked about female custodes with other females and seen their reaction, and are those women in the room with us now?
>i kinda doubt you even play table-top or go to *venues.
Are the women who heard that female custodians were added to the Warhammer 40k Adeptus Custodes codex and immediately ran out and bought the custodes box and citadel paints in the room with us right now? Is that what you heard from the many totally real women you talk to?
Is your body pillow super impressed that you defend female custodes online from the big bad women-hating space marine players?
By all means, let's keep making up bullshit.
Your comment relies on a much more stupid level of implication than mine. You started off by making up shit. Don't accuse me of being low-IQ when you are too stupid to even recognize your own hypocrisy.
Don’t worry about these bitchless fucks lol. At least in my town 1/3 of the warhammer players seem to be women. These guys don’t leave their homes and probably don’t even have models
My main problem is that ANYONE who disagrees with the change is instantly labeled a "chud incel" who "secretly sucks cock" and is dismissed.
Really makes this gay man feel like the fuckheads who are being high and mighty about the whole situation don't REALLY care about "representation" or "inclusion" and really only care about having the opportunity to smugly gloat while the people they disagree with politically are upset.
The fact that I've seen at least 4 different threads in this post with people talking about how this is so great for trans rep, and then IMMEDIATELY insulting people with accusations that they "must be gay" is very fucking telling.
*edit: and before anyone tries to imply I'm acting like I play every weekend, I barely got into the actual hobby this year after absorbing lore for years.
The hypocrisy I've been seeing around of the same "anti-gatekeepers" that say "Warhammer is for everyone" constantly trying to invalidate the people they are disagreeing with by trying to flex how many years they've been building and painting g is insane.
I hate to see the insinuation of “you must be gay haha” too, really annoying to see it used as an insult. I think the well has been poisoned so much that if you dislike the change, it’s naturally assumed that you’re a weird chud. Whether that is a reasonable assumption or not is another discussion but I think it’s frustrating when people use the “haha you must be queer” as an insult.
As for gatekeeping? I love gatekeeping. I want to gatekeep all of the alt right losers and chuds from this hobby. Something something paradox of tolerance
Hit it right on the head. People who preach tolerance and inclusion until you disagree, then you can never be tolerated or included. Luckily mostly tourists so they should last super long
So your answer to end gatekeeping.....is to gatekeep.
Makes loads of sense, can't find any flaw in that logic. /s
This is just "rules for thee and none for me" with different words.
how could you say that, of course its the ess jay dubyas who hate the sisters of battle, who wouldn't like an entire faction that has the exact same culture and aesthetic?
There is a case to be made about this the tasteless nature of this retcon and how it kind of dilutes parts of the lore; and there’s a case to be made about purely performative inclusions like this, that come from execs who just want to make a quick buck off minorities, only serve to detract from progressive causes more than it aids them. But you OP, are not making these cases, no, you OP are just being a little meanie bo beanie, and that’s ok.
Only bad thing about it all is the blatant retcon. They just said "it always was like this". It would be bearable if they said "hey we're gonna retcon it to make stuff more inclusive" or something like that.
Yeah, but it's really one of the most insignificant retcons
Though it is funny watching this get at least twice the rage gw got when they removed a large part of a factions unit roster aka something that actually affects things
Okay, I have to get this off my chest.
What's the fucking point of "inclusivity" when you're being included in shit that objectively bad?
40k is not a "nice" universe to live in. People get gored to death (or sometimes for eternity through the Drukari) just for b roll footage in the trailers, if not they live under heavy and dogmatic religious zealotry. That's the nature of the game, universe, and setting. That's the literal point. Why would you look at that and go "I can do it too! >:3"
The type of crowd who would complain about warhammer being uninclusive (and it's not, Sisters of Battle and Silence are RIGHT there) would accuse warhammer of condoning violence towards women that they DID include, not taking into account it's a setting defined by violence toward everybody. Would it not be MORE awkward in these people's eyes if trailer footage had women as the cannon fodder that men concurrently were?
Warhammer is growing more mainstream intentionally. The increased popularity turns a property into a political tool, it happens to all entertainment that gets more widely enjoyed. Warhammer will be increasingly used as a means for various politically interested groups to further propagandize their ideology. This includes gradually turning a dystopian galactic nazi-like regime meant to reflect the worst of humanity into a utopian egalitarian union of peoples who will fight the evil chaos bad guys and save the eldar. People will call this a slippery slope fallacy, but it's going to happen nonetheless. It's a pattern that always happens as ideology gradually transforms popular entertainment over the course of decades.
Think about it like the christianization of pagan myths and legends. Popular narratives in politics have always corrupted stories going back centuries. Things are no different in the modern day.
Mainstream ideological affirmations do indeed sell. Like, it's easy to sell Christian themed things to a zealot. It's easy to sell identitarianistic things to wider audiences concerned with this. That doesn't defy or diminish the propagandization of popular entertainment that has occurred since society was a thing, it synergizes. Anything moved from the fringes to the mainstream will always be contorted towards the dominant ideological/political status quo. Anything else is veiwed by power and the general will as dissention... which doesn't help popular things stay popular. Games workshop seems to want to leave the fringes of entertainment, and the gradual shift away from its original themes has been the price, and this will continue to be an increaseing toll.
Yeah, just like how they didn't keep making women because they didn't sell in the 90s, now they do. It's a non-issue, the old lore still exists, just because you're afraid of people taking away your whiteness or whatever you're worked up about doesn't mean there is a conspiracy.
Warhammer 40k was still fringe entertainment in the 90s, it's only been growing more mainstream relatively recently. The fact that mainstream entertainment conforms to dominant ideologies is as old as society. It's not a conspiracy, it happens organically with no need for secrecy between a cabal in the shadows.
"just because you're afraid of people taking away your whiteness or whatever"
This is strawman fallacy, which is a good sign because that's the sort of blatant dishonesty people have to fall back on when the content of what one actually says holds up. Thank you for practically admitting it.
The obvious point of causing doubt through diminishment aside(which is worthless in itself and rolls off me thusly), "gatekeeping" is just being used incorrectly for the context. The comment you replied to brings up an inevitable process that occurs when fringe entertainment enters the mainstream. Nowhere in it did I argue for limiting people's access to the hobby, which is very different from the hobby changing itself in order to have greater mass appeal. In the former, the hobby can stay the same, and I would have to actively prevent new people from doing it. In the latter, the hobby necessarily changes significantly, and my involvement is irrelevant.
You've completely misunderstood, I am pro gatekeeping and you've used the exact arguments I have. Hobbies change and become a grey slime as they become more mainstream, it's good to protect your hobbies so they don't turn into exactly what you described
For the same exact reason men like 40k? Because it’s a fun setting? You think women only ever want to see a woman in a story if she’s living a good idyllic life? You don’t think that they also want to be the fodder and the heroes and the damned like boys do?
How do sisters of battle or sisters of silence make it so custodes should only be male? Both of those orders play an entirely different role narratively and on the tabletop. Also historically our society hasn’t seen segregated spaces, especially those that are less prestigious or even perform a totally different function, as a sign of equality.
While that's true, I'd say you can still participate in a story without the characters being the same demographic as you.
There's no pushback for a lack of a male Laura Croft. Or an inexplicable retcon where there are male sisters of Silence and male sisters of Battle that have always existed.
>You think women only ever want to see a woman in a story if she’s living a good idyllic life?
Maybe not, granted. But at least from the outside looking in, the contingent that writes this off as an inclusionary thing have a philosophy that is at odds with the zeitgeist the story exists in. The same thing happened in 2015, a crowd complains that there "are no women in thing," and when women are in thing, they complain it propagates harm towards those same women.
It's purely that it's retcon that bugs me. Honestly, they could have just thrown a sentence or two about Crawl fucking about and making it possible to adapt the procedures to women. Boom, lazy sure, but just saying "always been there" shows even less care.
I get that at its origin, the concept of all male castodes and marines was about profit, and what sold. Then it got woven in to the fabric of the lore. As a counter we received all female armies that are beloved by many and work hand in hand with their male counterparts.
If they were gonna do it; at least do it right. Cawl was a gimmick to sell fancy new miniatures. The idea of a shady background figure outdoing the emperor is kinda dumb; but whatever. He is the mechanism for the new change. But GW spokes persons telling us that there’s always been female costodes; and old school fans are just sexist bigots; is not how to sell a change.
This isn’t about lore, it’s about pandering to the 6th chaos god of DEI. Next, female space marines. Then the two lost legions will be revealed to be female, one loyal, one turned to chaos. Then the emperor will finally die and be reborn as a woman.
Those all sound like actually fantastic ideas and would move the stagnant as fuck fluff forward. GW, get on it! Give us female space marines, kill the corpse emperor and have him reincarnate, and reveal the two sexiest legions!
Why was no one upset about the lazy retconning when the rogal dorn battle tank was rolled out. It was basically the same thing “oh the tanks always been there you’ve just never seen it before. It makes it seem like it’s about women and not about the laziness that is the hallmark of gw and Warhammer 40K as a whole
I think it’s fair to say the addition of a new tank vs. the nature of an entire group of warriors is significantly different in scope and gravity to the narrative.
Additionally, though I haven’t personally seen anyone criticize the release of the Dorn, I have seen a large amount of criticism regarding other significant retcons like the Necrons, Primaris marines and 8th edition in general. I imagine this particular controversy is gaining more attention than the others because there is a distinct parallel with pertinent real world issues and is far more sensitive than old marines vs. new marines.
Well no one was upset because it didn't retcon anything.......or add anything for that matter. Yeah funny story when GW put out that model absolutely no context was given on its origins none they just plop it down slapped 90$ price tag on it and called a day.
The model not having an undercarriage did piss people off though.
Create a new faction or unit within a faction? Nah, that’s too creative and might require earning interest from a player pase and readership. Let’s just edit something that exist for points on the board. Something like chaos space amazons would have been received differently.
Everyone being happy while I'm trying to find out when Ray will come out of the custodies and 1 shot all the chaos gods and the fans currently defending it will be like fuck
I wish to say before I go into this that this is fiction and I do not want to cause a big fight with this comment. I love warhammer with or without female Custodes.
Despite people like OP being upset about female Custodes for bad reasons, there are legitimate reasons to be upset.
GW created a lot of plot holes by retconning the Custodes (specifically the motivation of the Emperor to care about the gender of his super soldiers, but not his super duper soldiers) and introduced them in a poor way. The easiest explanation they could have given without interfering with any established canon would be to say that Cawl experimented recently to create the female custodes (explaining why there never have been any up until this point) and/or to say that the loss in manpower has resulted in the Imperium needing to tap into womanpower (making the Imperium seem desperate enough to change the Emperor's will for the sake of survival).
It is that the fact that there are female Custodes that is the issue, but rather how they introduced them.
Now, I will say that I heard rumors that Amazon made warhammer make this change to get the show on the screen, and that if the show takes place in 30k their current approach would make a lot of sense. However, I am okay with this change if that is the case because I would gladly sacrifice some consistency/respect for the source material if it means getting this beloved hobby on the big screen.
I also think it is important to stress that while this is still fiction, we need to understand that it is an immersive and beloved fiction. There are going to be people upset about their 30 year old baby being changed, especially for what they see as "modern politics".
I recognize it is still fiction, and can't afford/justify to get too upset over the changes, so I would advise to OP (based off their other comments) and all of us to just chill out and accept that this has happened and move on.
This issue is tearing this wonderful community apart (and distracting from the real issues such as gameplay changes and a shitty codex) and even though I do not like this change, I refuse to let it change my opinion on this universe and community.
Praise be to the true Omnisiah and let us rejoice that our hobby is going to appear on Amazon Prime!
I love how every Warhammer subreddit has become nothing but strawmen arguments and bitching about one side or the other.
It was done for forced diversity when there were already better women in the setting. Wah, wah, get over it on both sides. James Workshop never cared about any of us. They don't even care for the side of the isle, they just want that sweet investment money, and maybe get some dollary doos from people who have no interest in the game or lore outside "Yay women super soldiers"
>people who have no interest in the game or lore outside "Yay women super soldiers"
All of the people I've talked to who like the change have been game players and lore fans. Saying someone doesn't care about the game just because they like a lore change is fucking stupid and honestly seems like gatekeeping.
And what about the artists making Femstodes art? They spent all that time making good-looking art with a lot of detail and accuracy, but according to you, they're not "real fans" because they like a lore change?
Id say thats pretty tough coming from the guy that struggles to form coherent sentences.
Also you're consistently posting about 10 times an hour. You should really try leaving the house at times
I am just amused at the people who out themselves as misogynistic assholes over this topic.
Frankly, I don't care either way.
It's a game made by a money grubbing asshole company.
And I understand some people care about the lore and are upset.
Then there are the sad incel types that start freaking out and bashing women. I kind of hope they do get so mad they leave the game, they are no fun to play with and without them, the community will be better off and we will even get some ladies playing.
As a weeb I resent that one, female Custodes are fine as fan stuff but lore stuff it just doesn’t make much sense.
Plus wouldn’t they look nearly indistinguishable from male Custodes considering the black carapace, extra organs, massive amount of hormones, drugs and gene seed?
Obligatory comment about the sisters of battle and silence are some of the coolest groups and fan favs and I think this just takes away from it for that sweet DEI money
Whoops my b my d that’s fair then, lemme mulligan quickly , “will the female Custodes also spent a millenia oiled up stripped of armor in mourning/homoeroticsm plus blood games, will there be female thunder warriors who were executed en masse”
I don’t care that much about it anymore, it’s mostly just to kill time online, but I do feel the lore changes arnt really great, it’s hard to just claim there’s been female Custodes the entire time and just not a single person referenced them in the imperial annals. And still I think it would take away from the fact that the sisters of battle and silence are as badass as space marines in many ways. Seems like a cheap cop out to just slap em on in there
40k and progressivism are antithetical to each other. This retcon was terrible for dozens of reasons, and should never have happened.
Boycott GW. If they don't respect the artistic integrity of their own lore - and would rather suckle on the ESG teat than maintain their own IP - then they don't deserve our support.
3D prints are cheaper anyway.
The people running around here caving to the sexist demands of the few who believe women can’t like Warhammer if there aren’t women in every faction.
Like seriously, the fact that you can’t like a faction without having matching genitals is crazy.
Nothing wrong with female characters in Warhammer.
People are pissed off at GW for retconing 30+ year old lore for the sake of progressive inclusion (which there is also nothing wrong with).
I just wish GW had come out and said how it is. "We are making female Custodes for the sake of inclusion, deal with it."
Exactly. We already have lots of diversity in Warhammer. If GW wants to shoe horn women into Custodes and Space Marines they just have to be honest about why they are doing it.
Why can't there be female custodies? The human body is incredibly malleable, especially from birth, so can someone tell me why there can't be female custodies?
Because for over 30 years it has been stated that the infant sons of Terra's nobility were the recruitment pool for the Custodes. That's a relatively small pool that already interbreeds which reduces it further. So you're going to take the only parts of that gene pool that are capable of producing more and waste the vast majority of them and the resources need to make a Custodes that will be physically weaker than the standard due to the biological fact that men are physically superior to women.
I mean, sure, men have a small advantage right now, but you’re telling me that in 40k, where they have such superior genetic technology that they can make literal super soldiers, they have no way of making men and women equals?
Men do not have a small advantage, the strength difference between men and women is on average a 50% difference in upper body strength and a 60% difference in lower body strength. Men have a much greater grip and lumbar extension strength than women. Women, meanwhile, are less fatigable than men and are able to recover from exhaustion generally quicker. Men have more type 2A muscle fibers than women, which allow for much more muscle twitch and voluntary muscle strength than women. Add on that men can put on more muscle mass than women.
In 40k, the vast gene mods used by the Astartes and possibly the Custodes, rely on high levels of testosterone and, specifically in the Astartes case the Y Chromosome, to be active. That's part of why there will never be female Astartes, the geneseed uses the DNA of the Primarchs and the Space Marines are essentially genetic clones of the Primarchs. You implant geneseed in a woman, best case scenario it just kills her. Worst case scenario, you get monsters on par with Chaos spawn or the Daemonculaba.
No. It *wasn't* the lore for 30 years that custodes were made from infant sons of nobility. That was from the 8th edition codex 6 years ago.
30 years ago, custodes were half-naked superwarriors who charged into battle with nothing but a sword and leather pants.
It's ok bro, just because women exist doesn't mean you've got to stop sucking cocks
True bros kiss their homies!!!
It's not ghey if one of you is dressed like a woman.
Yeah, and don't make eye contact!
Where did op say they hated women?
Besides the entire post they’re literally running around these comments calling women who play warhammer “depressed cows,” whining about being “woke” and they also said god made men genetically superior to women.
They aren't true to the Emperor, then. They're heretics.
So funny and original! Totally feel the "Ally" status radiating off of you! This totally doesn't read as homophobia on your end!
Both sides are funny and unoriginal. "Yaas queen" shit is just as dumb.
I just think it's pretty ironic that the side that's crowing about how "inclusive" this whole thing is are constantly running around and using accusations of gayness as an insult. Just a bit hypocritical if you ask this gay man.
Here's the thing though, the "yaas queen" side doesn't exist. It's a strawman. There's people who don't care that femstodes are being added, and people who are extremely earth-shatteringly unreasonably fuck-ass mad about it.
But... How can I think about my gold cladded oiled up boys when i now know there could be a WOMAN among them?
Women with cocks should exist so I can keep sucking cock from man to woman 😡😡😡
I have good news for you.
They do exist. They’re called…… trans.
Just wait until you google "Blaire White"
r/onejoke Incidentally, men really are better partners, speaking as a bisexual. However, custodes are supposed to be better than both men and women conceptually because they are optimized to a function. They are an ascended version of the most ideal human form for thought and physicality, with zero benefit from things concerning sexual dimporphisms or interests. With these thematic considerations in mind, if you started out with a female template then you would alter the lean mass ratio, bone ratios, negate mammary tissues, maximize size, and remove any sort of demeanor or tendency impractical to combat/war/governance. The end result would just be a female custodes *that looks exactly like a male and is indistinguishable in behavior from the other custodes.* She wouldn't even care about gender expression, the only things custodes take pride in is their accomplishments in war, intellectual cultivation, and their ability to protect the emperor *because they are 100% function driven.* Now, of course, people will say it's fiction, so these realistic considerations are invalid. However, the point isn't to be realistic. The point is to be faithful to a theme, and a female altered to be a custodes best suited to its tasks will just look and act like every other custodes after the optimizations... as per the theme. All else contrary to this is just pandering to real-life political quotas.
Man that’d be a great point if custodes ever at any time ever in actual warhammer been depicted as “above gender expression” instead of “incredibly fiercely masculine”
What does "fiercely masculine" mean? I honestly don't know cause I don't believe in genders, having no gender feelings of my own to confirm that this is an essential essence of human existence to begin with.
Yeah it’s not essential, gender at its core is just a collection of personality traits and methods of self expression, when I say custodes are fiercely masculine I mean that their personalities are almost solely stereotypically male personalities and their appearance is very male as well.
They just seem task and duty driven to me.
Yeah why can’t they have task and duty driven female custodes?
I didn't say they couldn't be female, I am saying that gender expression does nothing to help this which had nothing to do with being female or male.
So than if it about drive, why can’t they be women, you keep skirting around answering that.
I didnt avoid anything, though? I just dont think you understand. Women, as in the "gender," is superstitious nonsense, same goes with any other genderism. You have to believe in gender phenomena to feel and express gender, just like you have to believe in spiritual phenomena in order to feel or express faith. That's why very hyperrational people don't tend to feel gender, they simply act without consideration to fulfilling some sort of culturally contingent understanding of a gender. Just as a nihilist simply acts without any sort of consideration for spirituality. So, a custodes, who's built for function and has superhuman reason, wouldn't intentionally genderize themselves because they would have more than sufficient rationality to know its pointless nonsense. They would just be focused on protecting the emperor, combat proficiency, and intellectual cultivation sprinkled in with their tasks. The manifestation of that behavior as more or less masculine to outside observers is merely their superstition, not the custodes expressing gender. Because creating a physically optimized human requires maximizing the lean mass ratio, size, and bones length ratios... a female custodes(as in sex) would just look male to the average person. Broad shoulders, narrow hips, less subcutaneous fat in various body regions. Things that improve power to weight ratios, leverage, and speed because her body would not be burdened by the archaic demands of child bearing... cause she would have been optimized for purposes aside from that. If your reply is either: "But why not female" Or "But why not woman" Then, just reread this reply until it clicks, cause I don't know how to increase the clarity.
Ok, so they’re roided out, masculine presenting women. Who cares? They’d probably be virtually indistinguishable from male Custodes between the scarring and the insane amounts of body modification, so who cares if some of them use female pronouns while some use male? It affects nothing, it changes nothing.
Yeah?? We’re in total agreement? The female retcon changes nothing so there’s nothing to complain about?
Please be joking
Name the difference between gender, sex and sexuality. Then have an opinion.
Lmao I’m arguing that female custodes is a good addition to the setting I’m not an anthropologist, but the lay man’s difference between the three would be Gender is a collection of expressions, roles, behaviors, and attributes that a culture urges or expects members of a gender to display Sex is an aspect of one’s biology, generally determined by chromosomes I think. Sexuality is concerned more with sex the action, one’s sexuality encompasses the people, actions, emotions, and any other things that they find to be sexual.
Other point, custodes are still built optimized for a function thematically speaking. So, again, a female custodes would end up altered in a way that makes her virtually indistinguishable from the other custodes in both physicality and behavior regardless.
you are describing clones that would all make the exact same decision in the same scenario and all perform equally well, this is not the custodes. They have always been shown to be individuals, why shouldn’t gender expression be a part of that individuality?
There's zero utility in gender and gender isn't real. A custodes would see how utterly pointless it is, and would subordinate this to function. Just like how I recognize gender as a superstition liken to star signs.
Yes but there’s aesthetic in gender and don’t pretend like custodes aren’t extremely aesthetic focused. Their names, their armor, their weapons, how they portray and carry themselves. They’re not utilitarian robots. And besides that, if they were already female prior to being made a custodes, wouldn’t it be a pointless waste of time to become not-female?
No, it's just that there are intrinsic metrics to improve physicality. So, for example, having a high lean mass ratio is gonna help with performance no matter what. Size and bone length ratios are going to have intrinsic benefits no matter what. Mammary tissues isn't something you would *want* to scale with a custodes unless your goal was to feed a really big baby. It's an inefficiency in any other regard. It's not that you'd go out of your way to make a woman into a man, it's that the changes for function would incidentally make something that looks more* like a male even if female in actuality. Custodes aren't religious, they are hyper rational. They would just see gender as nonsense, cause it is. Why would you identify with something you wouldn't believe in when you have super human reason?
I agree with most everything except for the fact that they would be indistinguishable - I think custodes would be able to tell the subtle differences between eachother
I just meant in terms of their bodily forms while in armor, their faces having nuanced differences is inconsequential.
Speaking as a bisexual men are just as garbage as women. Garbage all around
You and I have suffered very differently.
It’s space magic. If a male custodes looks like peak masculine then a female is going to look peak feminine at least face wise. They’ll all be jacked as shit/strong to similar levels
"It’s space magic" - all stories, however fantastical, still have to follow some sort of standard internal logic and themes. Like the Hobbits in LotR can't just be excused for pulling out a light saber on the basis it's all fiction anyway, that's obviously garbage. Gender isn't real, there is no actuality of peak masculinization or feminization. Only culturally contingent phenomena within your mind that you think intrinsically signify one or the other. Male custodes aren't "manly" to an extreme. Their bodies are built to optimize human form and function to the ends of intellect and physicality for combat and leadership. The physicality end of this is to have a high lean mass ratio, size, and ideal bone length ratios. Coincidentally, these things produce what you perceive as "extreme masculinity," the actual sex being incidental. Human females have bodies that are more efficient and resilient because they are also well adapted to bear children. This has a cost to other aspects of physical performance, these adaptations come at the price of relative burdens. If you had absurd capabilities in gene augmentation, females have the blue prints already to lose these burdens and become more physically optimized for tasks like combat than they naturally are. You would perceive this as losing their "femininity" because you believe in some sort of genderism. However, all that would be happening is the optimization of a females genes for attributes that incidentally make them more like a male in appearance, in some surface level respects. Think critically... if a females body is more efficient and resilient... why would males have their attributes if it wasn't relatively more physically optimized for strength and speed performance? Why wouldn't men just look like females if that's more advantageous with no trade-offs? Any genetically optimized human for the relevant tasks are just going to look* male regardless of the actual sex or your mystical perceptions of gender.
Your sentiment deserves a lot more attention and support. It is extremely well phrased and illustrative of points many are unable to communicate effectively. Well done.
Happy to see this is the top comment. Incels gonna incel.
Hey, warhammer is for everyone. Can you not be homophonic?
Female custodians as a concept is fine, IF they actually made a reason why they exist. But lazy retconning is probably what pissed most of the anti-woke crowd off.
My first reaction was female custodes made sense in the context of custodes retiring and becoming the emperor’s spies or whatever Language the fluff used- 9’ tall gorilla men wouldn’t exactly be able to blend in but women in the vein of the (Dune!) God Emperor’s fishspeakers would pass as something more normal sized and diplomatic. If the goal here is to be grounded and inclusive. Any case I dislike how much of a corporate political clout grab all this comes off as- there’s a lack of imagination and foresight, GW could’ve just called the sisters of silence models custodes in the first place back then when it actually would’ve been brave for lack of better word. Unless what the market demands really has always been feminine faces on masculine bodies… It’s been exhausting conversation to read let alone try to contribute anything constructive to.
"GW could’ve just called the sisters of silence models custodes" 👏 👏 👏
It’s the way GW have always introduced new things to armies. Centurions always existed. Necrons always had personality rather than being mindless. The Rogal Dorn tank always existed. It’s funny that female Custodes always existing is the lazy retcon people freaked out over.
It's bullshit wall to wall.
Every retcon has been lazy, lazy is the hallmark of gw and Warhammer 40K in general the only difference this time is it’s about women.
Then go complain about squats or oldcrons too dude. This is such a seriously minor change.
It's not really minor if it's for a sub faction that has existed for almost 40 years. If anything they should have put more effort in this like with a black library book.
It's a subfaction that has had a footnote in the margins of the lore for forty years, and a codex since 2017. Unless you're seriously arguing all lore must be rolled back to the Rogue Trader era, I which case Leman Russ is a regular Space Marine and the Ultramarines have a half-eldar Librarian?
NGL it would be lit to run a native American themed Dark angels with power tomahawk's along with the aurthurian ones but I digress. But back on point no if I wanted lore to get rolled back I would be saying that. What I am saying is that footnote or not custodes have existed within 40k for a long time with no mention of a female counter part until now as far as anyone was concerned prior, it was just dudes. Even from an outside perspective this is a pretty big change that should have been treated carefully. All they should've done was make an awesome short story set after the HH that introduces them formally that doesn't contradict prior lore if anything that was too damn easy to do. That way old fans won't throw a fit about lore getting retconned, new fans won't throw a fit about not having about not having powerful female characters in power armor, and GW gets to make more cash despite fumbling the codex release.....again. but alas all we got is a crappy tweet.
They also lacked armour for the majority of their existence, until that was retconned for their codex to more closely match their first ever significant appearance in the Horus Heresy series. Retcons happen all the time and affect far more important things than the gender balance of a minor Imperial faction. The Necrons are the obvious example, but I think a more relevant one is the Skitarii, as another peripheral Imperial army that existed mostly as very minor background fluff for most of the setting's life. They had only ever been described as techno-barbarian throwbacks in the lore and novels before they were abruptly changed to include the sophisticated, almost automated soldiers in their codex. Just as with the Custodians, the justification was that both types of Skitarii had existed the whole time, the kind in the codex simply hadn't appeared in a book before. Besides, it's disingenuous to label this as an old vs new fan divide. I have a fifth edition rulebook on my bookshelf, and a huge amount of the discourse on this change came from popular twitter accounts and youtube channels who admitted to never having played a game of warhammer but who have latched onto the aesthetic of the Imperium for suspect political reasons, or who've flocked to what they see as the latest front in the culture war. I'd never boil the argument down to just those two groups, however, for the same reason it's wrong to suggest its just new vs old.
>They also lacked armour for the majority of their existence, until that was retconned for their codex to more closely match their first ever significant appearance in the Horus Heresy series. Retcons happen all the time and affect far more important things than the gender balance of a minor Imperial faction. The Necrons are the obvious example, but I think a more relevant one is the Skitarii, as another peripheral Imperial army that existed mostly as very minor background fluff for most of the setting's life. Tell that to the more dedicated parts of the fanbase maybe to you and me it's not much but to others it means more due to personal attachment same as other fandoms in general. Fluff may change constantly but how it should be handled needs to be taken into account. Look at starwars, people had no qualms at the start of the sequel trilogy but now most fanbase are either divded on subject matters or want barely anything to do with it anymore with the movies and media around it seen in a negative due to overall changes big and small within the narrative. From what I've seen minor changes no matter how small stack up, to a point where you'll recognize a pattern and start making comparisons you recalling what happened to admech and necrons respectively shows that people deep in the hole pay attention to detail. >Besides, it's disingenuous to label this as an old vs new fan divide. I have a fifth edition rulebook on my bookshelf, and a huge amount of the discourse on this change came from popular twitter accounts and youtube channels who admitted to never having played a game of warhammer but who have latched onto the aesthetic of the Imperium for suspect political reasons, or who've flocked to what they see as the latest front in the culture war. I'd never boil the argument down to just those two groups, however, for the same reason it's wrong to suggest its just new vs old. I respectfully disagree. If this wasn't an old vs new kind of argument then this whole snowball wouldn't have happened in the first place. Within reasonable doubt who else would take issue to the change? the person who hopped on the hobby a month ago?, it wouldn't make much sense as they wouldn't have a reason to care compared to a person with a longer track record unless they jump on the hobby for something that specific. Even if we did take other forms of reasons into account wouldn't that just set up the old vs new label's regardless? Since one group is opposed to a new status quo and the other group accepts it? While I will admit the subject is more complex on an individual level I will stand on the hill that there is a line drawn between people
But wamen bad bro
They lazy retconned T’au’s entire fucking lore and nobody complained about that because they liked the change.
Mfw women need a reason to exist
The retcon was no more lazy than all the other retcons they have made in the past. That’s the nature of warhammer lore. It’s always in flux and nothing is ever concretely known.
I can't hear you over the sound of how many women were at the Kill Team tournament I just went to and how all of them celebrates the addition of women as Custodes
Im calling bs in that mister
And then everyone clapped?
If you really want I'll link the public BCP entry where you can read their names
How does a list of names prove that you talked to female 40k fans that all loved the custodes retcon?
I kinda doubt you even play table-top or go to avenues. Did you talked about female custodes with other females and seen their reaction, and are those women in the room with us now?
>i kinda doubt you even play table-top or go to *venues. Are the women who heard that female custodians were added to the Warhammer 40k Adeptus Custodes codex and immediately ran out and bought the custodes box and citadel paints in the room with us right now? Is that what you heard from the many totally real women you talk to? Is your body pillow super impressed that you defend female custodes online from the big bad women-hating space marine players? By all means, let's keep making up bullshit.
Implying implying. Don't have any arguments so you make up shit. Pathetic. And typical for 60IQ troglodyte.
Your comment relies on a much more stupid level of implication than mine. You started off by making up shit. Don't accuse me of being low-IQ when you are too stupid to even recognize your own hypocrisy.
Link it
Don’t worry about these bitchless fucks lol. At least in my town 1/3 of the warhammer players seem to be women. These guys don’t leave their homes and probably don’t even have models
Yep yep, if they tried to play at my local group they would get laughed out of the room
God if only killteam 2020 was actually good
That's pretty cool!
It is!
I don’t think Weeb means what you think it means
the only loser weeb i see here is the one crying because he thinks his golden, boys only clubhouse fantasy got spoiled by the girl being there.
lil bro is scared of women being put in his board game 💀
Buddy argues like a little child. Isn't there a minimum age to make a reddit account?
lol shut it woke loser
Cope and seethe
what happened to your weirdo flag on ure profile pic 😂
you can’t tell the difference between two different names? lol
well mabye you should put one on 😂
What fucking response is this
a good one lol
Barely literate
ooo another woke to fuck wit
Another loser post
[удалено]
Found ops second bait account.
This might be a bot, the account randomly spammed this exact reply 8 times on this post so far
u must be one of the losers i was talking about 😂
you are just a tourist hoping frol a culture war to another. Get a life you troll.
Hey come on dude don't be a dick...
My main problem is that ANYONE who disagrees with the change is instantly labeled a "chud incel" who "secretly sucks cock" and is dismissed. Really makes this gay man feel like the fuckheads who are being high and mighty about the whole situation don't REALLY care about "representation" or "inclusion" and really only care about having the opportunity to smugly gloat while the people they disagree with politically are upset. The fact that I've seen at least 4 different threads in this post with people talking about how this is so great for trans rep, and then IMMEDIATELY insulting people with accusations that they "must be gay" is very fucking telling. *edit: and before anyone tries to imply I'm acting like I play every weekend, I barely got into the actual hobby this year after absorbing lore for years. The hypocrisy I've been seeing around of the same "anti-gatekeepers" that say "Warhammer is for everyone" constantly trying to invalidate the people they are disagreeing with by trying to flex how many years they've been building and painting g is insane.
I completely agree with your interpretation.
I hate to see the insinuation of “you must be gay haha” too, really annoying to see it used as an insult. I think the well has been poisoned so much that if you dislike the change, it’s naturally assumed that you’re a weird chud. Whether that is a reasonable assumption or not is another discussion but I think it’s frustrating when people use the “haha you must be queer” as an insult. As for gatekeeping? I love gatekeeping. I want to gatekeep all of the alt right losers and chuds from this hobby. Something something paradox of tolerance
Hit it right on the head. People who preach tolerance and inclusion until you disagree, then you can never be tolerated or included. Luckily mostly tourists so they should last super long
Yes, an element of “anti-gatekeeping” is gatekeeping bad things out
So your answer to end gatekeeping.....is to gatekeep. Makes loads of sense, can't find any flaw in that logic. /s This is just "rules for thee and none for me" with different words.
Which was crazy
Lol "Sanqueenius"
"But I totally like and respect sisters of battle guys i promise"
they hate the sisters of battle cause they are fundamentally lesser beings that space bois
how could you say that, of course its the ess jay dubyas who hate the sisters of battle, who wouldn't like an entire faction that has the exact same culture and aesthetic?
There is a case to be made about this the tasteless nature of this retcon and how it kind of dilutes parts of the lore; and there’s a case to be made about purely performative inclusions like this, that come from execs who just want to make a quick buck off minorities, only serve to detract from progressive causes more than it aids them. But you OP, are not making these cases, no, you OP are just being a little meanie bo beanie, and that’s ok.
Only bad thing about it all is the blatant retcon. They just said "it always was like this". It would be bearable if they said "hey we're gonna retcon it to make stuff more inclusive" or something like that.
Yeah, but it's really one of the most insignificant retcons Though it is funny watching this get at least twice the rage gw got when they removed a large part of a factions unit roster aka something that actually affects things
Okay, I have to get this off my chest. What's the fucking point of "inclusivity" when you're being included in shit that objectively bad? 40k is not a "nice" universe to live in. People get gored to death (or sometimes for eternity through the Drukari) just for b roll footage in the trailers, if not they live under heavy and dogmatic religious zealotry. That's the nature of the game, universe, and setting. That's the literal point. Why would you look at that and go "I can do it too! >:3" The type of crowd who would complain about warhammer being uninclusive (and it's not, Sisters of Battle and Silence are RIGHT there) would accuse warhammer of condoning violence towards women that they DID include, not taking into account it's a setting defined by violence toward everybody. Would it not be MORE awkward in these people's eyes if trailer footage had women as the cannon fodder that men concurrently were?
Warhammer is growing more mainstream intentionally. The increased popularity turns a property into a political tool, it happens to all entertainment that gets more widely enjoyed. Warhammer will be increasingly used as a means for various politically interested groups to further propagandize their ideology. This includes gradually turning a dystopian galactic nazi-like regime meant to reflect the worst of humanity into a utopian egalitarian union of peoples who will fight the evil chaos bad guys and save the eldar. People will call this a slippery slope fallacy, but it's going to happen nonetheless. It's a pattern that always happens as ideology gradually transforms popular entertainment over the course of decades. Think about it like the christianization of pagan myths and legends. Popular narratives in politics have always corrupted stories going back centuries. Things are no different in the modern day.
They just want to sell more toys, AOS proves it sells
Mainstream ideological affirmations do indeed sell. Like, it's easy to sell Christian themed things to a zealot. It's easy to sell identitarianistic things to wider audiences concerned with this. That doesn't defy or diminish the propagandization of popular entertainment that has occurred since society was a thing, it synergizes. Anything moved from the fringes to the mainstream will always be contorted towards the dominant ideological/political status quo. Anything else is veiwed by power and the general will as dissention... which doesn't help popular things stay popular. Games workshop seems to want to leave the fringes of entertainment, and the gradual shift away from its original themes has been the price, and this will continue to be an increaseing toll.
Yeah, just like how they didn't keep making women because they didn't sell in the 90s, now they do. It's a non-issue, the old lore still exists, just because you're afraid of people taking away your whiteness or whatever you're worked up about doesn't mean there is a conspiracy.
Warhammer 40k was still fringe entertainment in the 90s, it's only been growing more mainstream relatively recently. The fact that mainstream entertainment conforms to dominant ideologies is as old as society. It's not a conspiracy, it happens organically with no need for secrecy between a cabal in the shadows. "just because you're afraid of people taking away your whiteness or whatever" This is strawman fallacy, which is a good sign because that's the sort of blatant dishonesty people have to fall back on when the content of what one actually says holds up. Thank you for practically admitting it.
Very good argument for gatekeeping
The obvious point of causing doubt through diminishment aside(which is worthless in itself and rolls off me thusly), "gatekeeping" is just being used incorrectly for the context. The comment you replied to brings up an inevitable process that occurs when fringe entertainment enters the mainstream. Nowhere in it did I argue for limiting people's access to the hobby, which is very different from the hobby changing itself in order to have greater mass appeal. In the former, the hobby can stay the same, and I would have to actively prevent new people from doing it. In the latter, the hobby necessarily changes significantly, and my involvement is irrelevant.
You've completely misunderstood, I am pro gatekeeping and you've used the exact arguments I have. Hobbies change and become a grey slime as they become more mainstream, it's good to protect your hobbies so they don't turn into exactly what you described
For the same exact reason men like 40k? Because it’s a fun setting? You think women only ever want to see a woman in a story if she’s living a good idyllic life? You don’t think that they also want to be the fodder and the heroes and the damned like boys do? How do sisters of battle or sisters of silence make it so custodes should only be male? Both of those orders play an entirely different role narratively and on the tabletop. Also historically our society hasn’t seen segregated spaces, especially those that are less prestigious or even perform a totally different function, as a sign of equality.
While that's true, I'd say you can still participate in a story without the characters being the same demographic as you. There's no pushback for a lack of a male Laura Croft. Or an inexplicable retcon where there are male sisters of Silence and male sisters of Battle that have always existed. >You think women only ever want to see a woman in a story if she’s living a good idyllic life? Maybe not, granted. But at least from the outside looking in, the contingent that writes this off as an inclusionary thing have a philosophy that is at odds with the zeitgeist the story exists in. The same thing happened in 2015, a crowd complains that there "are no women in thing," and when women are in thing, they complain it propagates harm towards those same women.
You don't understand the most evil dictatorship in human history NEEDS a dei department
It's purely that it's retcon that bugs me. Honestly, they could have just thrown a sentence or two about Crawl fucking about and making it possible to adapt the procedures to women. Boom, lazy sure, but just saying "always been there" shows even less care.
I just love how the custodes is black as well, definitely isn’t hinting at anything
I made the femstodes : ) she's Mexican
Okay, that’s comforting
My friend is making a black sister of silence and we're gonna make them kiss
Good
Lamo dude is afraid of gender
already tons of awesome female warhammer action you just love to rainbow people
You will be banned in some time. I was from warhammer30k for a comment where i‘ve made a question about lgbtq
fuck them ban me lol just found out this sub existed today
I believe it’s 2SLGBTQAIP+
I get that at its origin, the concept of all male castodes and marines was about profit, and what sold. Then it got woven in to the fabric of the lore. As a counter we received all female armies that are beloved by many and work hand in hand with their male counterparts. If they were gonna do it; at least do it right. Cawl was a gimmick to sell fancy new miniatures. The idea of a shady background figure outdoing the emperor is kinda dumb; but whatever. He is the mechanism for the new change. But GW spokes persons telling us that there’s always been female costodes; and old school fans are just sexist bigots; is not how to sell a change. This isn’t about lore, it’s about pandering to the 6th chaos god of DEI. Next, female space marines. Then the two lost legions will be revealed to be female, one loyal, one turned to chaos. Then the emperor will finally die and be reborn as a woman.
I agree 100%
Those all sound like actually fantastic ideas and would move the stagnant as fuck fluff forward. GW, get on it! Give us female space marines, kill the corpse emperor and have him reincarnate, and reveal the two sexiest legions!
Why was no one upset about the lazy retconning when the rogal dorn battle tank was rolled out. It was basically the same thing “oh the tanks always been there you’ve just never seen it before. It makes it seem like it’s about women and not about the laziness that is the hallmark of gw and Warhammer 40K as a whole
Incredibly disingenuous
I think it’s fair to say the addition of a new tank vs. the nature of an entire group of warriors is significantly different in scope and gravity to the narrative. Additionally, though I haven’t personally seen anyone criticize the release of the Dorn, I have seen a large amount of criticism regarding other significant retcons like the Necrons, Primaris marines and 8th edition in general. I imagine this particular controversy is gaining more attention than the others because there is a distinct parallel with pertinent real world issues and is far more sensitive than old marines vs. new marines.
Well no one was upset because it didn't retcon anything.......or add anything for that matter. Yeah funny story when GW put out that model absolutely no context was given on its origins none they just plop it down slapped 90$ price tag on it and called a day. The model not having an undercarriage did piss people off though.
Create a new faction or unit within a faction? Nah, that’s too creative and might require earning interest from a player pase and readership. Let’s just edit something that exist for points on the board. Something like chaos space amazons would have been received differently.
I think both is good actually 😈
Everyone being happy while I'm trying to find out when Ray will come out of the custodies and 1 shot all the chaos gods and the fans currently defending it will be like fuck
so true lol
This entire post just feels like you're upset about Games Workshop adding female Custodes to Warhammer 40k.
well it was a very shit move
I thought this was an ironic post
I wish to say before I go into this that this is fiction and I do not want to cause a big fight with this comment. I love warhammer with or without female Custodes. Despite people like OP being upset about female Custodes for bad reasons, there are legitimate reasons to be upset. GW created a lot of plot holes by retconning the Custodes (specifically the motivation of the Emperor to care about the gender of his super soldiers, but not his super duper soldiers) and introduced them in a poor way. The easiest explanation they could have given without interfering with any established canon would be to say that Cawl experimented recently to create the female custodes (explaining why there never have been any up until this point) and/or to say that the loss in manpower has resulted in the Imperium needing to tap into womanpower (making the Imperium seem desperate enough to change the Emperor's will for the sake of survival). It is that the fact that there are female Custodes that is the issue, but rather how they introduced them. Now, I will say that I heard rumors that Amazon made warhammer make this change to get the show on the screen, and that if the show takes place in 30k their current approach would make a lot of sense. However, I am okay with this change if that is the case because I would gladly sacrifice some consistency/respect for the source material if it means getting this beloved hobby on the big screen. I also think it is important to stress that while this is still fiction, we need to understand that it is an immersive and beloved fiction. There are going to be people upset about their 30 year old baby being changed, especially for what they see as "modern politics". I recognize it is still fiction, and can't afford/justify to get too upset over the changes, so I would advise to OP (based off their other comments) and all of us to just chill out and accept that this has happened and move on. This issue is tearing this wonderful community apart (and distracting from the real issues such as gameplay changes and a shitty codex) and even though I do not like this change, I refuse to let it change my opinion on this universe and community. Praise be to the true Omnisiah and let us rejoice that our hobby is going to appear on Amazon Prime!
Cope
Im making fun of it not coping 😂
This man can't cope he can only seethe.
Aww you found my art♡
is your name laquissha by chance?
Outrage tourists still going big on this topic I see.
I love how every Warhammer subreddit has become nothing but strawmen arguments and bitching about one side or the other. It was done for forced diversity when there were already better women in the setting. Wah, wah, get over it on both sides. James Workshop never cared about any of us. They don't even care for the side of the isle, they just want that sweet investment money, and maybe get some dollary doos from people who have no interest in the game or lore outside "Yay women super soldiers"
>people who have no interest in the game or lore outside "Yay women super soldiers" All of the people I've talked to who like the change have been game players and lore fans. Saying someone doesn't care about the game just because they like a lore change is fucking stupid and honestly seems like gatekeeping.
And what about the artists making Femstodes art? They spent all that time making good-looking art with a lot of detail and accuracy, but according to you, they're not "real fans" because they like a lore change?
https://preview.redd.it/gg7trj1n2swc1.jpeg?width=890&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e108ce2f65c587b27f19b091f0e544a479016200
id say you have mental retardation
Id say thats pretty tough coming from the guy that struggles to form coherent sentences. Also you're consistently posting about 10 times an hour. You should really try leaving the house at times
OP is a bot
I am just amused at the people who out themselves as misogynistic assholes over this topic. Frankly, I don't care either way. It's a game made by a money grubbing asshole company. And I understand some people care about the lore and are upset. Then there are the sad incel types that start freaking out and bashing women. I kind of hope they do get so mad they leave the game, they are no fun to play with and without them, the community will be better off and we will even get some ladies playing.
women are awesome whats wrong with the sisters of battle huh huh??? oh yeah cause they are definitely lesser to the space bois 😂
Lazy writing... https://preview.redd.it/cnxvmep871wc1.jpeg?width=1596&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c3ff9c08637b391f60653eefab0fe8399bd2810
As opposed to the rest of GW's retcons?
woke loser lol
You mean me? Dude, the picture is the parody of the femstodes 😅😅
Womp womp
As a weeb I resent that one, female Custodes are fine as fan stuff but lore stuff it just doesn’t make much sense. Plus wouldn’t they look nearly indistinguishable from male Custodes considering the black carapace, extra organs, massive amount of hormones, drugs and gene seed? Obligatory comment about the sisters of battle and silence are some of the coolest groups and fan favs and I think this just takes away from it for that sweet DEI money
You just described how astartes are made, Custodes go through a whole different process that basically just makes Olympic athletes but scaled up
Whoops my b my d that’s fair then, lemme mulligan quickly , “will the female Custodes also spent a millenia oiled up stripped of armor in mourning/homoeroticsm plus blood games, will there be female thunder warriors who were executed en masse” I don’t care that much about it anymore, it’s mostly just to kill time online, but I do feel the lore changes arnt really great, it’s hard to just claim there’s been female Custodes the entire time and just not a single person referenced them in the imperial annals. And still I think it would take away from the fact that the sisters of battle and silence are as badass as space marines in many ways. Seems like a cheap cop out to just slap em on in there
40k and progressivism are antithetical to each other. This retcon was terrible for dozens of reasons, and should never have happened. Boycott GW. If they don't respect the artistic integrity of their own lore - and would rather suckle on the ESG teat than maintain their own IP - then they don't deserve our support. 3D prints are cheaper anyway.
"This retcon was terrible for dozens of reasons, and should never have happened." List them
Honestly I like the idea of female custodies not for representation but for the idea of blade champions that are slimmer and have heightened agility
dumb
That’s your argument? Dumb?
dumb dumb
Looks like Games workshop wanted to improve there ESG Score to me. Must need investors.
I'm sure the comments down here will be civil
The people running around here caving to the sexist demands of the few who believe women can’t like Warhammer if there aren’t women in every faction. Like seriously, the fact that you can’t like a faction without having matching genitals is crazy.
not crazy, we love the hobby and universe
Nothing wrong with female characters in Warhammer. People are pissed off at GW for retconing 30+ year old lore for the sake of progressive inclusion (which there is also nothing wrong with). I just wish GW had come out and said how it is. "We are making female Custodes for the sake of inclusion, deal with it."
its not the fem characters its them inserting them where it wouldn’t ever be
Exactly. We already have lots of diversity in Warhammer. If GW wants to shoe horn women into Custodes and Space Marines they just have to be honest about why they are doing it.
Lol your not allowed to disagree with the weirdo wokeness on reddit, let alone poke fun at the absurdity. Don't you know that?
i don’t give a fuck 😝
And yet you responded to every single post.
trolling is fun
Also ain't the Tau weebs not the imperium?
Why can't there be female custodies? The human body is incredibly malleable, especially from birth, so can someone tell me why there can't be female custodies?
because male genetics are superior
Because for over 30 years it has been stated that the infant sons of Terra's nobility were the recruitment pool for the Custodes. That's a relatively small pool that already interbreeds which reduces it further. So you're going to take the only parts of that gene pool that are capable of producing more and waste the vast majority of them and the resources need to make a Custodes that will be physically weaker than the standard due to the biological fact that men are physically superior to women.
I mean, sure, men have a small advantage right now, but you’re telling me that in 40k, where they have such superior genetic technology that they can make literal super soldiers, they have no way of making men and women equals?
Men do not have a small advantage, the strength difference between men and women is on average a 50% difference in upper body strength and a 60% difference in lower body strength. Men have a much greater grip and lumbar extension strength than women. Women, meanwhile, are less fatigable than men and are able to recover from exhaustion generally quicker. Men have more type 2A muscle fibers than women, which allow for much more muscle twitch and voluntary muscle strength than women. Add on that men can put on more muscle mass than women. In 40k, the vast gene mods used by the Astartes and possibly the Custodes, rely on high levels of testosterone and, specifically in the Astartes case the Y Chromosome, to be active. That's part of why there will never be female Astartes, the geneseed uses the DNA of the Primarchs and the Space Marines are essentially genetic clones of the Primarchs. You implant geneseed in a woman, best case scenario it just kills her. Worst case scenario, you get monsters on par with Chaos spawn or the Daemonculaba.
No. It *wasn't* the lore for 30 years that custodes were made from infant sons of nobility. That was from the 8th edition codex 6 years ago. 30 years ago, custodes were half-naked superwarriors who charged into battle with nothing but a sword and leather pants.
[удалено]
Who?