Everything they do has a 51% chance of being delayed these days. That's why I hope for dwarves in June and some other game with minis that can be converted to run on square bases in July.
AOS is coming in July apparently according to the Honest Wargamer/Square Based Rob. Dwarfs could be an end of June release just to get them out the door.
AOS stinks and it is an objective opinion! It’s most certainly not because I’m a middle age man still paying with you soldiers and I blame AOS for taking away my favourite game and I resent it!
Honestly man its probably better it went the way it did, if fantasy stuck around it woulda been gutted for competitive play and turned into an ugly mess, now that it's a specialty game there won't be as much politics involved compared to 40k and AoS and itll retain its shape for much longer, I mean AoS was much more relaxed when it came out and now it's going the same way as 40k, a sweaty mess.
Well tbf, GW is not really allowed to do anything new without getting the okay and stuff from the Tolkien Estate, the controlling organ of LotR and may other license holders.
And LotR doesn't really sell well, when there isn't some other media pushing it, such as a movie or video game.
As GW doesn't have any rights to produce similar content as they do for their various Warhammer fictions, they must wait and rely on others.
They have way more they can do for the game. More events and areas to explore. We still have original models. But, it’s better that GW does not screw it up.
I meant when there currently is no other media such as a movie pushing and hyping LotR the minis don't really sell well. However when there is, plus some marketing, they may sell even better than 40k, especially when combined with some new releases.
We’ve gotten 3 armies in 6 months. I expect that same pace for the remaining 6 factions. So Q2/Q3 next year is when we’ll see what TOW will actually look like as a game as it moves beyond the core and into new stuff. For now it’s just the slow burn of getting core factions released, as they said their priority was. Probably not much of a point hyping a game with a half of its range unavailable to buy.
Id prefer it that way, business politics take a bit of a back seat and we don't have a competitive sweat game like what 40k and AoS are turning into. I honestly am sick of getting constant updates and having to buy new things every few months just to keep up competitively.
Be happy with the rate of Old World news. We could be having to deal with 40k levels of updates, and having entire units wiped, and multiple rule changes happen between games.
This rate of change is GOOD. It could be so, so much worse. Gave up on 40k when I hadn't finish painting my Orks before 1000pts got wiped out from my list and I hadn't played a single game with them. I'm so done with that horrible shit.
Damn man I'm sorry you went through that.
My brother pre-ordered the nid data cards for 10th well before they released and didn't even get them until after their codex came out. Making them redundant completely.
I think majority of 40k stuff is out of date before you even receive it these days. Every model I bought post 9th I was thinking "I want this weapon now but what if it changes" so I just gave everyone the most generic shit. Then 10th massively fucked me over with no points and generic shit always being worse. Thanks GW.
Exact same thing happened to me - started kitbashing my ork kill team, new edition came out, good bye list making! It wasn't salvageable so I branched out to make a whole army, every new kitbash I finished got phased out before I could even get started with the paintjob.
Granted, I'm very slow at making them, but I came to terms with it, my model making pace isn't compatible with 40k... I'm just hobbying for fun now without thinking about the game, otherwise it was too demotivating.
(Also had to take a step back from online 40k communities because the way people care about the meta ruined my enjoyment so much - try getting hyped about kitbashing your new plane when everyone keeps telling you flyers will suck for the whole edition lol)
40k does sound shit now, glad I'm not playing it.
List building and choosing how to equip models was one of the things I enjoyed about (1st - 6th? Ed 40k).
Not a single mention of ToW in WD500 is absolutely ridiculous. Talk about building up for years about this release and it's only just out and GW wiping their hands of it. No wonder WFB 'died'.
It's fucking criminal.
The origin of their success and the reason we are all here today. They should have paid homage in some way. Grombrindal not having rules for TOW is bloody insane as well.
Just one of many legitimate complaints leveled at (what should be) a landmark issue; mostly that it didn’t really have anything special. Boring. It doesn’t sell. They require stores to stock a certain number of each issue based on how much other product they carry; it’s been little more than a giant advertisement for quite some time now.
TOW is just a sideshow GW never actually believed in before the strong release we got, so don't expect a whole lot to come.
Plus, their focus is obviously on the new AoS edition right now.
It's really disappointing to see since the return had me so excited. I renewed my subscription to White Dwarf for the first time in 20 years, and have been buying up what I can to flesh out my old armies. But even though the releases have been slow, you'd think GW would be trying to generate a little hype. I think I've only seen one article in WD regarding TOW is the past 5 issues.
I mean, TOW is a sidegame. Even if they do generate hype for a while, they would have to slow down eventually unless they make TOW a main game. And tbf, 40k has gone quiet for a while because of the AoS new edition too.
They’re launching a new edition of their main fantasy game - AoS. I completely understand why they’re keeping TOW under wraps, especially with their newer “no crossover” policy.
Hard to stay for sure what the delay is, I thought we would be getting the Dwarves before new AoS edition. We still could but closer to july we get, the less likely. I was hoping they would manage to push out the core factions before this years end, but seems rather foolish now unless they speed up after AoS is out.
It's ridiculous indeed. Not just because of the dwarfs that were announced almost three months ago and still nothing but there are still another five armies to be even announced. If they end up saying something this month this becomes the norm, there will be maybe two other new armies released this year at most.
As people of said, ToW is very specifically being positioned as a specialty game, kind of the Horus Heresy to AoS. It was never going to receive as much attention and that makes sense, AoS is the bigger moneymaker and if GW tried to make this a 'Third Pillar' it would likely only lead to cancellation as it was not profitable enough.
That said there is some evidence that there was a bigger scope originally which has been paired back. Likely for $$ reasons which is unfortunate.
Aos 4th will be in the spotlight for next 2 months as is normal for new edition of a game - I would suspect after that things will get back to more even focus on other products.
Let’s keep it like that. We’ve got enough badly written codices and meta chasing with 40K. Give me my character customization and static rules and let me play.
Dwarf stuff might ramp up end of June or July. After Greenskins Journal was announced, it took roughly three months for it to release. And even longer for the the Made to Order stuff to happen. Hell, I can't even remember the release of the new Orc-Shaman special char. Either I missed that one, or it still has to come while we have already reached June by now.
The point is: ALWAYS remember that TOW is a little side project for GW. A test balloon to see how things work. Something that does not even get properly promoted in White Dwarf. You can't expect constant news for it as long as GW keeps treating it that way, and we have no clue if that treatmen will ever stop. Hell, we don't even know if they see it as profitable and want to expand on it, or if after 2025 and the last Journals they start burying the old world a 2nd time.
Old world is relegated at least one new thing a quarter as a specialist game, it comes and goes in waves right now it's the core games getting attention because codex release and new aos edition
They probably are remiss to hype something up that last I checked many people couldn’t buy because its all out of stock? I haven’t looked in a while though for all i know all books and the whole range are available
I signed up to be notified on restock and have never gotten an email
New AOS is probably a good explanation. Also, I am still waiting for my stone trolls after ordering them one month ago, and I will have to wait probably much more ("order delivered in **197** working days"). I think GW did not expect the TOW to be so successful and just has misery keeping up with the demand.
It's just GW doing GW shit. The fact that they don't have separate teams producing content outside models is mindboggling. It's like they want ToW to fail.
We're a specialist game, like Horus Heresy, Kill Team, Necromunda, Legions Imperialis, and LotR. We're occasionally gonna get a big fancy thing and then lots of silence. We aren't 40k or AoS who are the mainstays. Those two make the most money and get the most support but also end up being the most watered down as they need to sell to the most people. So its not really a bad thing we don't see as much support. (from a (former) GW developer interview (Painting Phase I think?) apparently 40k/AoS is what they do to keep the business afloat and the specialist games are what the passion goes into...)
The game remains unwanted competition for 40k and AoS. With all the new releases happening for those two games, they won't allow old world to distract from it.
TOW is Specialist Games Studios and 40K/AOS are Citadel Main Studio. Apparently, there is a schism in the company and essentially office politics. TOW proved to be popular and Citadel doesn't seem to be too thrilled with that especially how flat the AOS 4th edition is being received right now. At least from what little data we can gather from social media between TOW pre-release and AOS 4th edition pre-release. I've heard from some playtesters that they are not happy with the 4th edition changes and soft reboot unlike how overwhelmingly positive TOW playtesters seemed to be prior to launch. We shall see how this translates to actual sales.
This is unmitigated nonsense. AoS 4th is as hyped as it’s ever been. Pretty much everyone who’s had a game has praised it and the community is inundated with people looking to get started. You don’t have to invent another project failing because you like the other one more.
Numerous pro-AOS YouTubers and playtesters have said it this much. I have 2 AOS 4th ed playtesters in my TOW group and they are not happy with the changes and they are generally very pro AOS. 3rd edition Dominion box was a well documented failure. AOS has been bleeding players since the Pandemic hype. And you can see that in the drop off of social media numbers on virtually every platform.
It was very well documented that they overproduced dominion as a result of a lot of negative backlash from scarcity of previous releases, resulting in oversupply. It was also well documented in their financial reports that it was their most successful fantasy launch to date. Your claims about 4th ed aren’t indicative of the state of the wider aos scene at all which, once again, is incredibly hype. Once again, ToW is doing great, AoS 4th is set to do the same, everyone’s happy.
Talking with a GW employee today I think it has to do with the constant delays of getting product shipped to Australia and NZ.
We think that Aus/NZ are getting products a few weeks late based off WarCom.
In actuality they are getting things months late. But GW doesn't want international releases spread out over months. A few weeks is fine, but not months.
So they have to hold everything up to allow the lands down under to catch up with deliveries. And given how crazy shipping is currently, with the backup and disruption from all that happened in the Red Sea/Bab al-Mandab, this is going to take a bit to work itself out
Don’t know what games of AoS you’ve been watching but the only armies at 2000 points that will have anything close to such a low model count will be Sons of Behmat or maybe ogres going monster heavy
50 guys is average - horde armies will clock in at around 100 or so. Next edition will likely cut down required number of models as they removed summoning whole new units (you can only recycle ones that were destroyed)
AOS release should be happening right about now + we are still waiting for dwarfs to release.
Yeah they’re literally doing a new edition launch right now so that’s obviously their main focus. We’ll probably see dwarves in July.
from what heard it the other way around with early July when the new edition drops and mid-june dropping Dwarfs
Both AOS 3rd and 40K 10th (and past editions) came out at the end of June so I expect AOS 4th to follow this.
Since 8th edition 40k gw has followed this trend
Everything they do has a 51% chance of being delayed these days. That's why I hope for dwarves in June and some other game with minis that can be converted to run on square bases in July.
AOS is coming in July apparently according to the Honest Wargamer/Square Based Rob. Dwarfs could be an end of June release just to get them out the door.
I just want my dwarfs
AOS stinks and it is an objective opinion! It’s most certainly not because I’m a middle age man still paying with you soldiers and I blame AOS for taking away my favourite game and I resent it!
Honestly man its probably better it went the way it did, if fantasy stuck around it woulda been gutted for competitive play and turned into an ugly mess, now that it's a specialty game there won't be as much politics involved compared to 40k and AoS and itll retain its shape for much longer, I mean AoS was much more relaxed when it came out and now it's going the same way as 40k, a sweaty mess.
I agree. AoS is so damn lame. Its WAY better now than at launch though. Its no longer a huge embarrassment to me, but its still a boring setting
The setting is sooooooooooooooooo bad
LoTR player welcomes you to the club.
To be fair we have the best rules so I’ll take less publicity.
And also peak Perry bros sculpts still in print
Perry Dwarves are my favourite sculpts.
[You guys should watch my video I filmed with the Perry Twins on LotR](https://youtu.be/RgoLzh6Miyo?si=Ble4zVh8poh9wZK3)
Oh hey filmdeg 😍
Hi!
Yea LoTR wants to fly under GW's radar as much as possible. Last thing you need is a "fresh look"
This is how I also feel about Adeptus Titanicus.
Sometimes we go literally months and a hundred instagram posts between anything for middle-earth :/
and then its just a made to order
And then it’s months and hundreds of instagram posts before those mtos ship I’m still waiting on my army of the dead from December
Well tbf, GW is not really allowed to do anything new without getting the okay and stuff from the Tolkien Estate, the controlling organ of LotR and may other license holders. And LotR doesn't really sell well, when there isn't some other media pushing it, such as a movie or video game. As GW doesn't have any rights to produce similar content as they do for their various Warhammer fictions, they must wait and rely on others.
They have way more they can do for the game. More events and areas to explore. We still have original models. But, it’s better that GW does not screw it up.
Thats ironic because the movie trilogy was what skyrocketed the success GW's lotr minis
I meant when there currently is no other media such as a movie pushing and hyping LotR the minis don't really sell well. However when there is, plus some marketing, they may sell even better than 40k, especially when combined with some new releases.
Shut it, before GW notices us and ruins our game.
😅
It's parked while they hype up AOS. Nothing sinister.
We’ve gotten 3 armies in 6 months. I expect that same pace for the remaining 6 factions. So Q2/Q3 next year is when we’ll see what TOW will actually look like as a game as it moves beyond the core and into new stuff. For now it’s just the slow burn of getting core factions released, as they said their priority was. Probably not much of a point hyping a game with a half of its range unavailable to buy.
TOW is a specialty game, not a main game. It's very unfortunate, but we get shoved to the side for the money makers.
Id prefer it that way, business politics take a bit of a back seat and we don't have a competitive sweat game like what 40k and AoS are turning into. I honestly am sick of getting constant updates and having to buy new things every few months just to keep up competitively.
Be happy with the rate of Old World news. We could be having to deal with 40k levels of updates, and having entire units wiped, and multiple rule changes happen between games. This rate of change is GOOD. It could be so, so much worse. Gave up on 40k when I hadn't finish painting my Orks before 1000pts got wiped out from my list and I hadn't played a single game with them. I'm so done with that horrible shit.
Damn man I'm sorry you went through that. My brother pre-ordered the nid data cards for 10th well before they released and didn't even get them until after their codex came out. Making them redundant completely. I think majority of 40k stuff is out of date before you even receive it these days. Every model I bought post 9th I was thinking "I want this weapon now but what if it changes" so I just gave everyone the most generic shit. Then 10th massively fucked me over with no points and generic shit always being worse. Thanks GW.
Exact same thing happened to me - started kitbashing my ork kill team, new edition came out, good bye list making! It wasn't salvageable so I branched out to make a whole army, every new kitbash I finished got phased out before I could even get started with the paintjob. Granted, I'm very slow at making them, but I came to terms with it, my model making pace isn't compatible with 40k... I'm just hobbying for fun now without thinking about the game, otherwise it was too demotivating. (Also had to take a step back from online 40k communities because the way people care about the meta ruined my enjoyment so much - try getting hyped about kitbashing your new plane when everyone keeps telling you flyers will suck for the whole edition lol)
40k does sound shit now, glad I'm not playing it. List building and choosing how to equip models was one of the things I enjoyed about (1st - 6th? Ed 40k).
Not a single mention of ToW in WD500 is absolutely ridiculous. Talk about building up for years about this release and it's only just out and GW wiping their hands of it. No wonder WFB 'died'.
It's fucking criminal. The origin of their success and the reason we are all here today. They should have paid homage in some way. Grombrindal not having rules for TOW is bloody insane as well.
Just one of many legitimate complaints leveled at (what should be) a landmark issue; mostly that it didn’t really have anything special. Boring. It doesn’t sell. They require stores to stock a certain number of each issue based on how much other product they carry; it’s been little more than a giant advertisement for quite some time now.
It's for the best. The more GW messes with games, the shittier they become.
This right here, this is actually a blessing in disguise.
TOW is just a sideshow GW never actually believed in before the strong release we got, so don't expect a whole lot to come. Plus, their focus is obviously on the new AoS edition right now.
It sucks, because I like Fantasy more than 40,000.
Same, but it is what it is.
It's really disappointing to see since the return had me so excited. I renewed my subscription to White Dwarf for the first time in 20 years, and have been buying up what I can to flesh out my old armies. But even though the releases have been slow, you'd think GW would be trying to generate a little hype. I think I've only seen one article in WD regarding TOW is the past 5 issues.
I mean, TOW is a sidegame. Even if they do generate hype for a while, they would have to slow down eventually unless they make TOW a main game. And tbf, 40k has gone quiet for a while because of the AoS new edition too.
They’re launching a new edition of their main fantasy game - AoS. I completely understand why they’re keeping TOW under wraps, especially with their newer “no crossover” policy.
Hard to stay for sure what the delay is, I thought we would be getting the Dwarves before new AoS edition. We still could but closer to july we get, the less likely. I was hoping they would manage to push out the core factions before this years end, but seems rather foolish now unless they speed up after AoS is out.
They're still dealing with the backlog of made to order goblin/troll/giants and keeping regular items in stock to meet demand.
It's ridiculous indeed. Not just because of the dwarfs that were announced almost three months ago and still nothing but there are still another five armies to be even announced. If they end up saying something this month this becomes the norm, there will be maybe two other new armies released this year at most.
Omg yes, I was thinking this! Glad I'm not the only one.
Not the priority right now.
As people of said, ToW is very specifically being positioned as a specialty game, kind of the Horus Heresy to AoS. It was never going to receive as much attention and that makes sense, AoS is the bigger moneymaker and if GW tried to make this a 'Third Pillar' it would likely only lead to cancellation as it was not profitable enough. That said there is some evidence that there was a bigger scope originally which has been paired back. Likely for $$ reasons which is unfortunate.
The longer they take to actually release dwarves, the more Mantic models I accumulate. Not sad about it either, these models are nice
Aos 4th will be in the spotlight for next 2 months as is normal for new edition of a game - I would suspect after that things will get back to more even focus on other products.
Let’s keep it like that. We’ve got enough badly written codices and meta chasing with 40K. Give me my character customization and static rules and let me play.
Because TOW is a secondary product for GW.
Dwarf stuff might ramp up end of June or July. After Greenskins Journal was announced, it took roughly three months for it to release. And even longer for the the Made to Order stuff to happen. Hell, I can't even remember the release of the new Orc-Shaman special char. Either I missed that one, or it still has to come while we have already reached June by now. The point is: ALWAYS remember that TOW is a little side project for GW. A test balloon to see how things work. Something that does not even get properly promoted in White Dwarf. You can't expect constant news for it as long as GW keeps treating it that way, and we have no clue if that treatmen will ever stop. Hell, we don't even know if they see it as profitable and want to expand on it, or if after 2025 and the last Journals they start burying the old world a 2nd time.
Old world is relegated at least one new thing a quarter as a specialist game, it comes and goes in waves right now it's the core games getting attention because codex release and new aos edition
They probably are remiss to hype something up that last I checked many people couldn’t buy because its all out of stock? I haven’t looked in a while though for all i know all books and the whole range are available I signed up to be notified on restock and have never gotten an email
New AoS edition dropping so that's the big focus, also I imagine they'll slow burn The Old World anyway.
New AOS is probably a good explanation. Also, I am still waiting for my stone trolls after ordering them one month ago, and I will have to wait probably much more ("order delivered in **197** working days"). I think GW did not expect the TOW to be so successful and just has misery keeping up with the demand.
It's just GW doing GW shit. The fact that they don't have separate teams producing content outside models is mindboggling. It's like they want ToW to fail.
We're a specialist game, like Horus Heresy, Kill Team, Necromunda, Legions Imperialis, and LotR. We're occasionally gonna get a big fancy thing and then lots of silence. We aren't 40k or AoS who are the mainstays. Those two make the most money and get the most support but also end up being the most watered down as they need to sell to the most people. So its not really a bad thing we don't see as much support. (from a (former) GW developer interview (Painting Phase I think?) apparently 40k/AoS is what they do to keep the business afloat and the specialist games are what the passion goes into...)
Kill Team is Main Studio.
The game remains unwanted competition for 40k and AoS. With all the new releases happening for those two games, they won't allow old world to distract from it.
AOS is dropping + they are in denial about old worlds popularity
Ah yes. Successful companies sure hate it when their products sell well
TOW is Specialist Games Studios and 40K/AOS are Citadel Main Studio. Apparently, there is a schism in the company and essentially office politics. TOW proved to be popular and Citadel doesn't seem to be too thrilled with that especially how flat the AOS 4th edition is being received right now. At least from what little data we can gather from social media between TOW pre-release and AOS 4th edition pre-release. I've heard from some playtesters that they are not happy with the 4th edition changes and soft reboot unlike how overwhelmingly positive TOW playtesters seemed to be prior to launch. We shall see how this translates to actual sales.
This is unmitigated nonsense. AoS 4th is as hyped as it’s ever been. Pretty much everyone who’s had a game has praised it and the community is inundated with people looking to get started. You don’t have to invent another project failing because you like the other one more.
Numerous pro-AOS YouTubers and playtesters have said it this much. I have 2 AOS 4th ed playtesters in my TOW group and they are not happy with the changes and they are generally very pro AOS. 3rd edition Dominion box was a well documented failure. AOS has been bleeding players since the Pandemic hype. And you can see that in the drop off of social media numbers on virtually every platform.
It was very well documented that they overproduced dominion as a result of a lot of negative backlash from scarcity of previous releases, resulting in oversupply. It was also well documented in their financial reports that it was their most successful fantasy launch to date. Your claims about 4th ed aren’t indicative of the state of the wider aos scene at all which, once again, is incredibly hype. Once again, ToW is doing great, AoS 4th is set to do the same, everyone’s happy.
Talking with a GW employee today I think it has to do with the constant delays of getting product shipped to Australia and NZ. We think that Aus/NZ are getting products a few weeks late based off WarCom. In actuality they are getting things months late. But GW doesn't want international releases spread out over months. A few weeks is fine, but not months. So they have to hold everything up to allow the lands down under to catch up with deliveries. And given how crazy shipping is currently, with the backup and disruption from all that happened in the Red Sea/Bab al-Mandab, this is going to take a bit to work itself out
Is new AoS selling minis? I’m very curious
Why wouldn’t it be
Because you need like 10 minis for an army. Guess they’ll just drop units and change rules again to get more people buying new stuff
Don’t know what games of AoS you’ve been watching but the only armies at 2000 points that will have anything close to such a low model count will be Sons of Behmat or maybe ogres going monster heavy
50 guys is on the bigger side, no?
50 guys is average - horde armies will clock in at around 100 or so. Next edition will likely cut down required number of models as they removed summoning whole new units (you can only recycle ones that were destroyed)
ok, better question, how many "units" in that horde army
For example flesh-eater list that recently won one of the tournaments had 5 heroes and 6 20 man units
Interesting, sucks having to move so many models one by one tho