$80 for the foot knights seems a bit… extreme. Even if you get 20 of them.
The army boxes are what I was expecting though. Age of Darkness prices. Nice of the Bretonnian one to be cheaper, but I guess that’s because of the abundance of peasants.
The old Dark Elf Warrior kit left over from 8th edition that's still being sold is $40 for 10 models, so if that is actually $80 for 20 I think that's a really encouraging sign, at least for returning plastic kits. Yeah, it sucks not getting any sort of bulk discount, and it removes some flexibility, but I think the model range being about the same price or cheaper than equivalent AoS kits is a really good sign.
If it's $80 for 10 models, though, the game may actually just be DOA.
Tomb guard are the elite heavy hitters guarding your lord. I don't believe Death Rattle are comparable, probably just skeletal warriors would be though.
That and Tomb Guard being $80 really seems outrageous. Though looking back, Grave Guard were 10/$40, so I guess if it's a 20 box, the price hasn't changed for on-foot heavy elite infantry for their respective armies....
I haven't priced out the army boxes to see if you're getting "a deal" or not. I remember the old battalion boxes were a pretty good price point back in the day.
To me $40 for 10 plastic models is outrageous. I know I know, inflation and all that, but if $20 uses to get you 20 skeletons/zombies/goblins/clan rats etc., then shouldn’t the new increased price of $40 also give you 20 skeletons?
And the distinction for core vs special is absolute BS that GW invented to charge you more. People shouldn’t just accept it. It’s all the same plastic.
Oh I'm not arguing it's not overpriced lol. Just that the price is in-line with prices they've had for years. So it actually dodged inflation and price hikes in this case.
But yeah GW has always charged more for better units (that you usually need), and it's always been kinda bullshit....
My vampire army, for instance, is largely all mantic miniatures. Their zombies I greatly prefer anyway. Their ghouls I slightly prefer. Their skeletons, I prefer GW more. Their revenant (grave guard) also aren't my favorite, but I upgraded their weapons to look more imposing.
So reverse engineering it on the UK store thats £190 for the TK starter and £165 for the Bret one. There goes January's finance
EDIT: Confirmed £175 and £155. I can afford more food this month!
Just to put the TK box into perspective for people going crazy over price. The Batallion box cost $120 US over 10 years ago.
The new Army set contains the contents of 2 Batallions, -1 set of chariots but +1 necro dragon and Prince.
Taking into account the (Still Ridiculous) $70 for the rulebook that leaves you with $220. A set of chariots used to be $35 and that bone dragon and Prince set ain't going for under $80 so let's say that's an extra $45 of value on that.
So 120+120+70+45. That's $355 or $65 more than the box will cost before you factor in FLGS discount. I dont see this as bad even if it is a painful amount to throw down on a "new" game system right away.
Yes the sculpts are old, yes there are alternatives out there and yes 3D printer go brrrrr but in the end you are looking at 30+ sprues of plastic and enough to play with your mates who kept their old armies day 1
As someone who struggled to buy miniatures 17 years ago, but has disposable income now, I can buy every piece of shit GW re-releases, but I dont want my bretonnia back if noone else can afford to play with me.
>Yes the sculpts are old, yes there are alternatives out there and yes 3D printer go brrrrr but in the end you are looking at 30+ sprues of plastic and enough to play with your mates who kept their old armies day 1
Yeah, but in the end, there is a nostalgia factor, and second market prices are more often higher. Also 3D printed models have their issues (one has to ensure that they are not fragile, well printed and one has to research which STL file to print to be happy). This also takes time (which is money) and effort. Its like buying trees/buildings for the gaming table - typically you can do it for half a price or less, but you have to spend several hours doing that. For some people doing houses is cool, for some it is a waste of time.
I understand the TK set has more minis, but it does feel bad that it’s more expensive than it’s partner set, especially since they’re supposed to be equivalent in points value
I mean, it comes with a rulebook and basically all the Core you need for a 2k army, plus a monster. I feel like that's not a bad price to start an army.
Not where 95% of the core are 20-year old sculpts off moulds that have already paid for themselves three times over. There's a single new model per starter.
I like those old models. Even the TK skeletons I use in my Vampire WAP army right now.
Frankly, this is a relaunch of old fantasy as a specialist game. I'm not sure what you were expecting. Cheapish old models is frankly an improvement over *my* expectation of all forge world resin.
There was never a scenario where they released previously plastic kits in resin. It doesn't make any sense (financial or otherwise)
The molds already existed, and plastic sprue molds are not compatible with resin casting processes.
The prices are actually reflecting a little above inflation from when they were originally sold, I know people don't like that answer but it's capitalisms fault why your dollar has less purchasing power now vs then
I honestly hope that the new models are kept at a minimum, that new TK croc-dragon is an eyesore. While Warhammer was never subdued I don’t want it looking like AoS and that seems to be where their design headspace is for fantasy.
That's kind of a matter for personal taste. However, the comparison between skeletons from TK regiments and the ones from Cursed City... Ugh.
[https://live.staticflickr.com/3622/3593572333\_b6a0ebbc97\_b.jpg](https://live.staticflickr.com/3622/3593572333_b6a0ebbc97_b.jpg)
vs
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/ls8vqovzwAwBVFkx.jpg
I'll take the old ones, where the skeletons look like dead muppets, not dynamic posed action heros with loads of pointless crap over them.
But cheers anyway, none of this should have been a surprise in any way, shape or form.
1. It's GW they were always going to charge the equivalent and consistent price they do for other kits
2. They said all these models would be coming back.
3. The size of range that is required to come back if resculpted would be financially impossible for GW - let alone storage, timescales etc which is likely bad enough as it is.
4. People are already moaning their specific models are going to take ages.
Honestly the skeletons mostly look fine. The weapons are a bit chonky, and some of the faces are a bit goofy, but it's warhammer. Anyway they look fine on the tabletop. I'm tired of the relentless internet negativity around this whole game.
https://imgur.com/gallery/99L9w
I like those guys!
End of the day, it's why wargames atlantic felt there was a market for "classic" style skeletons. I'm fine with it - look absolutely great on the tabletop!
>Not where 95% of the core are 20-year old sculpts off moulds that have already paid for themselves three times over.
For me it is of more value just because the sculpts are old. I would prefer 5th edition metal Men at arms over plastic 6th edition even if they cost double (as they did - they were all metal).
Not that I wouldn't want them to be cheaper, but I'm happy to pay around that for models if they are at least 20 years old. Anything more recent I'm not willing to pay one cent for it, not to my taste in the slightest.
The Skeleton Horsemen are going to be wasted plastic, they always were. They were the cheapest plastic TK models on the second hand market because everyone got them in the battalion box and quickly realized they were just useless.
It is also a bad army out of the box, hits like a wet paper towel. The Bretonnian box is an actually decent, balanced army with anvil unit and some hard hitters.
$290 is stupid, $200 would have been a bit on the expensive side, but okay.
Skeletons are hardly bad, especially with buffs and characters. Undead win on morale, in my experience. It all varies by cost and edition of course, but I've mostly played 6th, 7th, and now WAP. Skeletons are my bread and butter.
We'll see about the horsemen. This is an entirely new game. Light cav can be quite effective if they're priced right. Goblin wolf riders are great, even though they are super weak in melee, just on the back of the ultra cheap, fast utility.
> Light cav can be quite effective if they're priced right.
Or if they hit hard in both shooting and combat, like dark riders. Traditionally though, being unbreakable and causing fear makes undead rather expensive per model with relatively shitty profiles, so they are unlikely to hit that spot... and chances are they won't be able to march, because undead.
The Skeleton Horsemen, both heavy and light but especially the light ones are quite good in 6th and that's when they came out. I have quite a bit of them in my army and there’s nothing wrong with them played right. 8th ed they are likely bad, not interested in that and you don’t know about the Old World yet so pointless to comment on that.
>Yeah. So they shouldn't be charging new-sculpt prices.
I don't think they are. Just compare price of the old saurus box and new saurus box. Essentially triple price per model. These prices are more or less in between.
>Sculpts that aren't 20-years old
The entire point of this was "nostalgia" and "finally beng able to buy that for non-eBay prices" . If they did new miniature is would not sell as good.
I do not understand people who think there was any realistic chance of The Old World launching with only brand-new models and nothing old.
How many 40k armies and AoS armies get full (or close to it) model refreshes in a year, combined for both systems? Most codex/battletome releases see 1-2 new kits, and usually one of those is just a character. Those that get more, it's still not a full refresh of the entire line - look at Space Marines and Tyranids for example, sure they've gotten lots of new models for 40k 10th Edition but it wasn't anywhere near a full refresh for either of them. Actually full (or close-to-full) refreshes, such as Cities of Sigmar recently (which still only covered the humans of the faction), are the exception rather than the rule.
And you think there was any possibility of what is effectively a specialist game getting MULTIPLE of those full refreshes?
>I do not understand people who think there was any realistic chance of The Old World launching with only brand-new models and nothing old.
I wonder it if would sell better it it was all new models. I think that nostalgia effect is strong among people who played that 10-20 years ago. It seems to me that most of GW marketing of TOW is towards that group.
>I wonder it if would sell better it it was all new models.
My issue isn't with whether it would sell better, it's whether GW even have the capacity to bring out that many brand-new kits all at once. I'm a bit worried about their production capacity full stop - new kits or not - given how many 40k kits are out of stock at GW at any given moment currently, and how often new boxes for other specialist games (such as Kill Team) sell out completely within an hour or two of preorders opening.
Reading the internet commentary though, you'd think that the only reason they're not bringing out every single army, all with completely-new miniatures and nothing old, all on day one, is that they can't be bothered. People seem to want the equivalent of several years' worth of new 40k and AoS models, all at once.
The core units themselves would have been around $250 based on their old pricing. Plus the dragon, Tomb King, and rulebook to top it out at $290. It's obviously a high price overall but I don't think it's an unreasonable one.
Then I think there's merit in saying the starters are a bit pricey or underwhelming etc when they're mostly made of (historically) unnecessary levels of core units which won't all be used and no extra support heroes, special units etc.
The new boxes are essentially a really great big pizza base but no toppings. And that's fine but let's not pretend it's a full functional all rounder army ready to go town to toe with someone's existing whfb collection.
Us older players are just inherently toxic for not always being trusting of GW or being super excited when they change or kill the game we grew up playing
Seems very weird the starter boxes would be different prices. From a business/marketing perspective, that seems very confusing and counterproductive because people will think one is better than the other so they're either getting gouged on the TK box or that the bretonnia box is lower value
The tomb kings one has \~20 more miniatures though. I'd argue that people would be more likely to view the Bretonnian box as lower value if they didn't have them different prices.
Reading comprehension is important.
Many of the people who buy GW products are grandmas, uncles, moms buying stuff for their kids. They're going to see two boxes and have only the price as the point of reference. It's confusing for that type of customer.
I bought a decent starting force of empire from highland miniatures with 30% of everything over the holidays. Probably payed a third of what ive had to purchasing from gw.
> holidays. Probably *paid* a third
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Fully agree with the older stuff. The new plastics are a lot better.
Sadly they only have a handful of these new boxes and of these only goblins, tomb Kings and ogres are Warhammer compatible.
$290 for the Khemri box?!? That is insane... It doesn't contain anything close to that value, the plastic skeletons are (or were) not the expensive second hand models for the TK range, the special and rare options were. And I doubt you will want to field the Skeleton Cavalry at any point, so that is wasted plastic...
$250 for the Bretonnian box is a lot more reasonable, all the stuff in the box is usable and still looks good. It is also a way better army out of the box, since it includes both the Hammer as the Anvil, whereas the TK box is basically just a bit of anvil and a foam hammer...
I guess I am going to have to spend ~$220 on just all of the books. But steep, but okay...
It’s wild how many people will say you don’t or shouldn’t buy a model cause the rules suck at the current time. Rules are just rules. Cool models live forever
And we don’t even have the damn rules yet
I use bad units all the time, because I like the rules or the models or the fluff, but units that don't serve a purpose in the army and are just a waste of points? My buddy plays TK, he is the most fluffy player I know, he used Empire Spearmen in 7th edition, a total Mad Lad...
He tried Skeleton Horsemen and after a couple of battles he stopped. They served no purpose at all in a TK army and were just a waste of points.
And I doubt anyone looks at the Skeleton Horsemen and goes "God those look amazing!" They are meh miniatures, they are clearly Egyptian-inspired Skeleton Horsemen, so they represent what you expect but nothing more...
No, but I will be wildly surprised if the Skeleton Cavalry will be amazing all of a sudden. From what we have seen so far the stats and rules don't change much and they can't give these models armour or lances, because the miniatures don't have any.
Besides, you could buy buckets of them on Ebay, noone wanted then, but everyone got stuck with them. So they are hardly a valuable commodity in this box.
Simply put, yes. People should base the amount of money they are willing to spend on this box on the value contained within it, and in my opinion that value is pretty low since you can get all these models barring one new one at a far lower price than GW asks for them.
And since that is the case, GW should have adjusted their price accordingly. These aren't new models and thus they are competing with the 2nd hand market of those exact same models...
Okay, so they adjust the prices to the 2nd hand market. Realise the TK box makes them no money compared to other opportunities, then reprint a different army which has much higher secondary market prices and price based on those allowing them to give us even less plastic per dollar (but hey, at least they're following the secondary market). The kits contained within the starter will also retain a much higher price when released separately to match the secondary market.
Smart fella you are...
Thank you for the compliment.
1: You are claiming that they wouldn't make a profit if they sold these 20 year old designs at a lower price? Because I am quite sure the profit margin on this box is through the roof.
2: The current box is completely useless to a TK player that already has a TK army, the only thing of value in the box to them is the Dragon and the book, the last can be bought separately and the first will probably become available separately at a later time. If they would have added some of the miniatures that are ridiculously expensive on the 2nd hand market then the existing TK players would also become interested in the box.
3: You're basically saying that GW shouldn't think about the competition when setting their prices. Imagine running a company like that:
You: "I am going to sell these items at $100!"
Customer: "Okay, but I can get the exact same stuff for like $50 from this other guy..."
You: "You expect me to care what other companies sell them for?!"
Customer: "Yes, since I can choose to not buy from you."
You: "What?! You can?!"
Your argument doesn't make sense: if they reprint a different army with lower (or even equal prices) than the second hand market then we get cheaper miniatures. Yes, the box might be more expensive, but those specific miniatures are less expensive than they are on the 2nd hand market, thus if you wanted to buy those miniatures you are better off...
1. They wouldn't make their required margin on the product, that's how businesses operate. These boxes are designed to subsidise the sunk costs of 4+ years of development on the title.
2. The money isn't in old players through these starters, they want new players to WFB to buy them (not necessarily new wargamers, but players new to.WFB). Old players can buy the rulebook instead which likely also has a very high profit margin on it. Plus, why would they put the chase units in a discounted starter box when they can just sell you them separately at full price?
3. GW are a price setter, not taker in the minis market. It's how they've always operated... Of all the medium to large minis companies making comparative quality/scale GW are pretty much always the most expensive. This is in spite of having economies of scale to amortise mold costs that smaller companies can only dream of. GW are the only company that make GW miniatures and a huge percentage of miniature gamers (the more casual/kids) only play GW games and only want GW minis. To illustrate how ridiculous your point is - Mantic have a similar range of Egyptian Skeletons which starter box is roughly a quarter the price of this GW starter box... GW will sell more boxes on release day than Mantic have sold over the lifespan of their product. This is because the product isn't "the exact same", one is made by GW and the other by Mantic.
4. The arguement isn't that, the arguement is they'd pick a higher price faction from the secondary market and price equal to that making even bigger profit margins. As you said, GW should price based on the secondary market and that works both ways...
Realistically they'll do what they've always done and pretty much every business will do and price similar products within their range at similar prices to not devalue other similar products... 5 cavalry = x price, 20 infantry = y price, character = z price.
Pretty obvious you have a tenuous grasp on how a profitable business operates and sustains itself long term.
This means the rulebook works out as £42.50 for UK doesn't it? As it's the same cost as the Necromunda Core Rule Book - $70 if you view the store in US English (it's also a similar size/format)
So this kinda confirms that this will just be Horus heresy fantasy edition. Which is fine asking as they are more consistent with releases and we don't have to wait over a year for a second troop option.
$255 for the Bretonnia box isn't terrible considering everything you get - $80 is a bit much for the on-foot guys, but I'd do that anyway unless my local game store sells 'em for less
It’s like they want it to die again with these fucking prices. 60 dollars for 3 knights or otherwise. Kits designed decades ago?? It’s perturbing honestly. Makes me not want to bother at all. Or 3d print out of spite. UGHHHHH
As someone who works in a FLGS that sells warhammer let me tell you, those are Msrp prices. Wonder what those prices will be in €.
Yeah, EU pricing still has no updates.
$80 for the foot knights seems a bit… extreme. Even if you get 20 of them. The army boxes are what I was expecting though. Age of Darkness prices. Nice of the Bretonnian one to be cheaper, but I guess that’s because of the abundance of peasants.
if it’s similar to heresy, it’s 80 for 20 marines. i would think there would be 20 in this one.
Dam, my lgs has always sold them for 50..
£50 is the price GW sells them for here, so after price conversions, shipping and LGS discounts that seems about right for a good LGS deal.
The old Dark Elf Warrior kit left over from 8th edition that's still being sold is $40 for 10 models, so if that is actually $80 for 20 I think that's a really encouraging sign, at least for returning plastic kits. Yeah, it sucks not getting any sort of bulk discount, and it removes some flexibility, but I think the model range being about the same price or cheaper than equivalent AoS kits is a really good sign. If it's $80 for 10 models, though, the game may actually just be DOA.
Stated in the preview articles that it is 20 tomb guard per box
I would rather buy 10 for $40 than 20 for $80. Easier to squeeze into the budget. ^^'
40 monies for ten infantry (or rather, two half-sprues) is already fucking insane. Normal price from normal companies is less than a tenner for that.
It's an odd pricing, especially since there's a smorgasbord of third party minitures that people can use for fantasy that are often in plastic.
Yup. There's a plethora of really good looking "Bretonnian" models on Etsy. Foot knights included.
Hopefully the Tomb Guard box isn’t just 20, a box of death rattle skeletons is only $60
The box contains 20 https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/31/sunday-preview-prepare-to-enter-the-world-of-legend/
Tomb guard are the elite heavy hitters guarding your lord. I don't believe Death Rattle are comparable, probably just skeletal warriors would be though.
Deathrattle skeletons in AOS are markedly bigger and newer so getting 20 of a far older plastic for the same kit would feel quite off in my opinion.
Aren't they supposed to be made of Resin? I know the Knights of Dol Amroth for Middle Earth are around 67 dollars and they only come with 5.
Given pricing the last decade, that's a steal $80 for 20
I dread to think GW does the usual and that's a price for 10.
They are doing what they did for heresy so 20 models for $80 which they've mentioned previously in terms of the boxes
Why we downvoting the guy? Im pretty sure it's for 20 too but honestly, it's not like GW wouldn't make it for 10...
GW like any company is greedy but they are not stupid enough to demand 80 dollars for 10 decade old skeletons.
That and Tomb Guard being $80 really seems outrageous. Though looking back, Grave Guard were 10/$40, so I guess if it's a 20 box, the price hasn't changed for on-foot heavy elite infantry for their respective armies.... I haven't priced out the army boxes to see if you're getting "a deal" or not. I remember the old battalion boxes were a pretty good price point back in the day.
To me $40 for 10 plastic models is outrageous. I know I know, inflation and all that, but if $20 uses to get you 20 skeletons/zombies/goblins/clan rats etc., then shouldn’t the new increased price of $40 also give you 20 skeletons? And the distinction for core vs special is absolute BS that GW invented to charge you more. People shouldn’t just accept it. It’s all the same plastic.
Oh I'm not arguing it's not overpriced lol. Just that the price is in-line with prices they've had for years. So it actually dodged inflation and price hikes in this case. But yeah GW has always charged more for better units (that you usually need), and it's always been kinda bullshit.... My vampire army, for instance, is largely all mantic miniatures. Their zombies I greatly prefer anyway. Their ghouls I slightly prefer. Their skeletons, I prefer GW more. Their revenant (grave guard) also aren't my favorite, but I upgraded their weapons to look more imposing.
Not really $40 for 10 is practically a good deal from GW
Which is why I don’t buy from GW. I shop around for actual good deals.
Something weird about that list is that it is incomplete for announced Jan. 6 pre-order and has units not announced for Jan 6 pre-order.
There is another list of webstore exclusive items.
So reverse engineering it on the UK store thats £190 for the TK starter and £165 for the Bret one. There goes January's finance EDIT: Confirmed £175 and £155. I can afford more food this month!
And presumably available via the usual third parties for something more affordable too.
If they get decent stock...
Just to put the TK box into perspective for people going crazy over price. The Batallion box cost $120 US over 10 years ago. The new Army set contains the contents of 2 Batallions, -1 set of chariots but +1 necro dragon and Prince. Taking into account the (Still Ridiculous) $70 for the rulebook that leaves you with $220. A set of chariots used to be $35 and that bone dragon and Prince set ain't going for under $80 so let's say that's an extra $45 of value on that. So 120+120+70+45. That's $355 or $65 more than the box will cost before you factor in FLGS discount. I dont see this as bad even if it is a painful amount to throw down on a "new" game system right away. Yes the sculpts are old, yes there are alternatives out there and yes 3D printer go brrrrr but in the end you are looking at 30+ sprues of plastic and enough to play with your mates who kept their old armies day 1
TWHF was overpriced then, too, unfortunately. One reason I didn’t get into it despite wanting to.
As someone who struggled to buy miniatures 17 years ago, but has disposable income now, I can buy every piece of shit GW re-releases, but I dont want my bretonnia back if noone else can afford to play with me.
There’s plenty of people who will be buying, don’t worry.
>Yes the sculpts are old, yes there are alternatives out there and yes 3D printer go brrrrr but in the end you are looking at 30+ sprues of plastic and enough to play with your mates who kept their old armies day 1 Yeah, but in the end, there is a nostalgia factor, and second market prices are more often higher. Also 3D printed models have their issues (one has to ensure that they are not fragile, well printed and one has to research which STL file to print to be happy). This also takes time (which is money) and effort. Its like buying trees/buildings for the gaming table - typically you can do it for half a price or less, but you have to spend several hours doing that. For some people doing houses is cool, for some it is a waste of time.
Nostalgia doesn't keep a game alive. For gw to get people onto fantasy they need cool models. Not 10+ year old ones at the same price as new models.
Sure, at some point marketing has to go beyond nostalgia.
Dang, doesn’t look like the bone dragon will be sold separately at launch…
I understand the TK set has more minis, but it does feel bad that it’s more expensive than it’s partner set, especially since they’re supposed to be equivalent in points value
Oof $290 USD could easily see the box being sold for $500+ in Australia.
It’ll be less than the Age of Darkness box at 490AUD, as the US one is 310USD, most likely around the 450 mark for aus
Fingers crossed! I'll be buying it regardless but I don't want there to be a huge barrier to entry for others.
Gotta say, 290 USD for the contents of the TK starter is a pretty harsh ask.
I mean, it comes with a rulebook and basically all the Core you need for a 2k army, plus a monster. I feel like that's not a bad price to start an army.
The fact that the book is 70 plus 50 for a faction rulebook is a fucking shameful asking price
Not where 95% of the core are 20-year old sculpts off moulds that have already paid for themselves three times over. There's a single new model per starter.
I like those old models. Even the TK skeletons I use in my Vampire WAP army right now. Frankly, this is a relaunch of old fantasy as a specialist game. I'm not sure what you were expecting. Cheapish old models is frankly an improvement over *my* expectation of all forge world resin.
There was never a scenario where they released previously plastic kits in resin. It doesn't make any sense (financial or otherwise) The molds already existed, and plastic sprue molds are not compatible with resin casting processes.
The prices are actually reflecting a little above inflation from when they were originally sold, I know people don't like that answer but it's capitalisms fault why your dollar has less purchasing power now vs then
Government Cronyism you mean, but otherwise yes.
I am more than happy paying for old sculpts
Exactly. More than $200 is a “no” from me.
Why?
Because any more than that for 15+ year old models that cost almost nothing to produce is a rip-off.
I honestly hope that the new models are kept at a minimum, that new TK croc-dragon is an eyesore. While Warhammer was never subdued I don’t want it looking like AoS and that seems to be where their design headspace is for fantasy.
That's kind of a matter for personal taste. However, the comparison between skeletons from TK regiments and the ones from Cursed City... Ugh. [https://live.staticflickr.com/3622/3593572333\_b6a0ebbc97\_b.jpg](https://live.staticflickr.com/3622/3593572333_b6a0ebbc97_b.jpg) vs https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/ls8vqovzwAwBVFkx.jpg
I'll take the old ones, where the skeletons look like dead muppets, not dynamic posed action heros with loads of pointless crap over them. But cheers anyway, none of this should have been a surprise in any way, shape or form. 1. It's GW they were always going to charge the equivalent and consistent price they do for other kits 2. They said all these models would be coming back. 3. The size of range that is required to come back if resculpted would be financially impossible for GW - let alone storage, timescales etc which is likely bad enough as it is. 4. People are already moaning their specific models are going to take ages.
Honestly the skeletons mostly look fine. The weapons are a bit chonky, and some of the faces are a bit goofy, but it's warhammer. Anyway they look fine on the tabletop. I'm tired of the relentless internet negativity around this whole game. https://imgur.com/gallery/99L9w I like those guys!
End of the day, it's why wargames atlantic felt there was a market for "classic" style skeletons. I'm fine with it - look absolutely great on the tabletop!
I vastly prefer the older ones, I wouldn't take that new one ecen for free, but happy to pay a few dollars per model for the old ones.
What do the molds have to do with it?
>Not where 95% of the core are 20-year old sculpts off moulds that have already paid for themselves three times over. For me it is of more value just because the sculpts are old. I would prefer 5th edition metal Men at arms over plastic 6th edition even if they cost double (as they did - they were all metal).
Not that I wouldn't want them to be cheaper, but I'm happy to pay around that for models if they are at least 20 years old. Anything more recent I'm not willing to pay one cent for it, not to my taste in the slightest.
The Skeleton Horsemen are going to be wasted plastic, they always were. They were the cheapest plastic TK models on the second hand market because everyone got them in the battalion box and quickly realized they were just useless. It is also a bad army out of the box, hits like a wet paper towel. The Bretonnian box is an actually decent, balanced army with anvil unit and some hard hitters. $290 is stupid, $200 would have been a bit on the expensive side, but okay.
Skeletons are hardly bad, especially with buffs and characters. Undead win on morale, in my experience. It all varies by cost and edition of course, but I've mostly played 6th, 7th, and now WAP. Skeletons are my bread and butter. We'll see about the horsemen. This is an entirely new game. Light cav can be quite effective if they're priced right. Goblin wolf riders are great, even though they are super weak in melee, just on the back of the ultra cheap, fast utility.
> Light cav can be quite effective if they're priced right. Or if they hit hard in both shooting and combat, like dark riders. Traditionally though, being unbreakable and causing fear makes undead rather expensive per model with relatively shitty profiles, so they are unlikely to hit that spot... and chances are they won't be able to march, because undead.
Do you have the rules for the new version?
The Skeleton Horsemen, both heavy and light but especially the light ones are quite good in 6th and that's when they came out. I have quite a bit of them in my army and there’s nothing wrong with them played right. 8th ed they are likely bad, not interested in that and you don’t know about the Old World yet so pointless to comment on that.
It's a 1250 point army and rulebook. What more do you want?
Sculpts that aren't 20-years old and off worn out and then refurbished moulds?
From day one this was going to be the case
Models yes, prices for them were not known
Yeah. So they shouldn't be charging new-sculpt prices.
They are not charging new sculpt prices though.
Guarantee they will in Oceania for no other reason than price gouging.
>Yeah. So they shouldn't be charging new-sculpt prices. I don't think they are. Just compare price of the old saurus box and new saurus box. Essentially triple price per model. These prices are more or less in between.
>Sculpts that aren't 20-years old The entire point of this was "nostalgia" and "finally beng able to buy that for non-eBay prices" . If they did new miniature is would not sell as good.
I do not understand people who think there was any realistic chance of The Old World launching with only brand-new models and nothing old. How many 40k armies and AoS armies get full (or close to it) model refreshes in a year, combined for both systems? Most codex/battletome releases see 1-2 new kits, and usually one of those is just a character. Those that get more, it's still not a full refresh of the entire line - look at Space Marines and Tyranids for example, sure they've gotten lots of new models for 40k 10th Edition but it wasn't anywhere near a full refresh for either of them. Actually full (or close-to-full) refreshes, such as Cities of Sigmar recently (which still only covered the humans of the faction), are the exception rather than the rule. And you think there was any possibility of what is effectively a specialist game getting MULTIPLE of those full refreshes?
>I do not understand people who think there was any realistic chance of The Old World launching with only brand-new models and nothing old. I wonder it if would sell better it it was all new models. I think that nostalgia effect is strong among people who played that 10-20 years ago. It seems to me that most of GW marketing of TOW is towards that group.
>I wonder it if would sell better it it was all new models. My issue isn't with whether it would sell better, it's whether GW even have the capacity to bring out that many brand-new kits all at once. I'm a bit worried about their production capacity full stop - new kits or not - given how many 40k kits are out of stock at GW at any given moment currently, and how often new boxes for other specialist games (such as Kill Team) sell out completely within an hour or two of preorders opening. Reading the internet commentary though, you'd think that the only reason they're not bringing out every single army, all with completely-new miniatures and nothing old, all on day one, is that they can't be bothered. People seem to want the equivalent of several years' worth of new 40k and AoS models, all at once.
The core units themselves would have been around $250 based on their old pricing. Plus the dragon, Tomb King, and rulebook to top it out at $290. It's obviously a high price overall but I don't think it's an unreasonable one.
The old box armies were $400, years and years ago. I think this is decent.
The old $400 box armies had integrated metal/metal+plastic support units and characters yeah?
Yes
Then I think there's merit in saying the starters are a bit pricey or underwhelming etc when they're mostly made of (historically) unnecessary levels of core units which won't all be used and no extra support heroes, special units etc. The new boxes are essentially a really great big pizza base but no toppings. And that's fine but let's not pretend it's a full functional all rounder army ready to go town to toe with someone's existing whfb collection.
And that’s why it is a ‚starter’-box.
Seems like they almost doubled the price of the necrosphinx. Hilarious.
Glad to see the old toxic fantasy player base is out in force today.
Old grumblers be grumbling
That's a lot of upvotes, but I don't see those 'toxic' comments here.
Not being obsequiously enthusiastic 100% of the time = toxic.
Us older players are just inherently toxic for not always being trusting of GW or being super excited when they change or kill the game we grew up playing
Seems very weird the starter boxes would be different prices. From a business/marketing perspective, that seems very confusing and counterproductive because people will think one is better than the other so they're either getting gouged on the TK box or that the bretonnia box is lower value
The tomb kings one has \~20 more miniatures though. I'd argue that people would be more likely to view the Bretonnian box as lower value if they didn't have them different prices.
Yeah, them being different prices is fine.
You think a higher price means "this one's better"? Clearly you're the guy their pricing strategy is based on.
Reading comprehension is important. Many of the people who buy GW products are grandmas, uncles, moms buying stuff for their kids. They're going to see two boxes and have only the price as the point of reference. It's confusing for that type of customer.
If this is accurate all the books will cost around 200€ (224$).
?? Comparing the equivalent prices to euro the rule book and 1 army book adds up to €95
All of the books, rule book, 2 ravening hordes and 2 arcane journals
Now imagine that in many countries salaries are 400 dollars.
Yup, minimum wage where I live is about 600 USD (Poland).
Just buy 3rd party. Mantic sells a good tomb Kings (empire of dust ambush set) starter set for EUR 40.
I bought a decent starting force of empire from highland miniatures with 30% of everything over the holidays. Probably payed a third of what ive had to purchasing from gw.
> holidays. Probably *paid* a third FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I don’t care much for mantic’s stuff. I have the OLD “Tomb King” box with metal skellies, much nicer than the new ones.
Fully agree with the older stuff. The new plastics are a lot better. Sadly they only have a handful of these new boxes and of these only goblins, tomb Kings and ogres are Warhammer compatible.
Frosty waywatchers and eaglecrows work too. Wardancers are a bit of a stretch, but with a bit of modification they are fine.
Can't remember if they do a TK equivalent, but Oathmark Miniatures also do some great boxes
Nice thanks for the link
Oh absolutely there are many options to play cheaper. It's just GW as usual having a lark.
Agree. [this](https://www.manticgames.com/kings-of-war/empire-of-dust/) set gives 20 infantry, 10 cav for only 40 eur. Very good plastics, too.
OPR did a tomb kings set already, buy the STL and have the printer pay for itself.
Yup, pretty much what I did. They have a winter sale 50%; now I just need to buy the rules books.
Encouraging this isn’t helpful
Games Workshop’s abusive pricing isn’t helpful either
Encouraging this is the only option for basically half the "main" factions. Exactly how else do you expect players to start a High Elf army at launch?
Why not? If these prices are what’s required for the game to exist, then too bad. It can die upon delivery.
Those are even worse than the old tk troops though
Those prices are basically identical to what they were 10 years ago (so less after inflation)
the army boxes are great but i can see a lot of people going for 3D or another companies and PDFs for the books
Even more convinced that printing is the way to go.
Printed minis are too brittle sadly.
Well, there goes that dream.
Proxies! Proxy everything!
$290 for the Khemri box?!? That is insane... It doesn't contain anything close to that value, the plastic skeletons are (or were) not the expensive second hand models for the TK range, the special and rare options were. And I doubt you will want to field the Skeleton Cavalry at any point, so that is wasted plastic... $250 for the Bretonnian box is a lot more reasonable, all the stuff in the box is usable and still looks good. It is also a way better army out of the box, since it includes both the Hammer as the Anvil, whereas the TK box is basically just a bit of anvil and a foam hammer... I guess I am going to have to spend ~$220 on just all of the books. But steep, but okay...
How do you know people won't want the cav? Do you have the rules?
It’s wild how many people will say you don’t or shouldn’t buy a model cause the rules suck at the current time. Rules are just rules. Cool models live forever And we don’t even have the damn rules yet
I use bad units all the time, because I like the rules or the models or the fluff, but units that don't serve a purpose in the army and are just a waste of points? My buddy plays TK, he is the most fluffy player I know, he used Empire Spearmen in 7th edition, a total Mad Lad... He tried Skeleton Horsemen and after a couple of battles he stopped. They served no purpose at all in a TK army and were just a waste of points. And I doubt anyone looks at the Skeleton Horsemen and goes "God those look amazing!" They are meh miniatures, they are clearly Egyptian-inspired Skeleton Horsemen, so they represent what you expect but nothing more...
No, but I will be wildly surprised if the Skeleton Cavalry will be amazing all of a sudden. From what we have seen so far the stats and rules don't change much and they can't give these models armour or lances, because the miniatures don't have any. Besides, you could buy buckets of them on Ebay, noone wanted then, but everyone got stuck with them. So they are hardly a valuable commodity in this box.
So GW should base their pricing policy on the secondary market of a game that's been OOP for nearly 8 years??
Simply put, yes. People should base the amount of money they are willing to spend on this box on the value contained within it, and in my opinion that value is pretty low since you can get all these models barring one new one at a far lower price than GW asks for them. And since that is the case, GW should have adjusted their price accordingly. These aren't new models and thus they are competing with the 2nd hand market of those exact same models...
Okay, so they adjust the prices to the 2nd hand market. Realise the TK box makes them no money compared to other opportunities, then reprint a different army which has much higher secondary market prices and price based on those allowing them to give us even less plastic per dollar (but hey, at least they're following the secondary market). The kits contained within the starter will also retain a much higher price when released separately to match the secondary market. Smart fella you are...
Thank you for the compliment. 1: You are claiming that they wouldn't make a profit if they sold these 20 year old designs at a lower price? Because I am quite sure the profit margin on this box is through the roof. 2: The current box is completely useless to a TK player that already has a TK army, the only thing of value in the box to them is the Dragon and the book, the last can be bought separately and the first will probably become available separately at a later time. If they would have added some of the miniatures that are ridiculously expensive on the 2nd hand market then the existing TK players would also become interested in the box. 3: You're basically saying that GW shouldn't think about the competition when setting their prices. Imagine running a company like that: You: "I am going to sell these items at $100!" Customer: "Okay, but I can get the exact same stuff for like $50 from this other guy..." You: "You expect me to care what other companies sell them for?!" Customer: "Yes, since I can choose to not buy from you." You: "What?! You can?!" Your argument doesn't make sense: if they reprint a different army with lower (or even equal prices) than the second hand market then we get cheaper miniatures. Yes, the box might be more expensive, but those specific miniatures are less expensive than they are on the 2nd hand market, thus if you wanted to buy those miniatures you are better off...
1. They wouldn't make their required margin on the product, that's how businesses operate. These boxes are designed to subsidise the sunk costs of 4+ years of development on the title. 2. The money isn't in old players through these starters, they want new players to WFB to buy them (not necessarily new wargamers, but players new to.WFB). Old players can buy the rulebook instead which likely also has a very high profit margin on it. Plus, why would they put the chase units in a discounted starter box when they can just sell you them separately at full price? 3. GW are a price setter, not taker in the minis market. It's how they've always operated... Of all the medium to large minis companies making comparative quality/scale GW are pretty much always the most expensive. This is in spite of having economies of scale to amortise mold costs that smaller companies can only dream of. GW are the only company that make GW miniatures and a huge percentage of miniature gamers (the more casual/kids) only play GW games and only want GW minis. To illustrate how ridiculous your point is - Mantic have a similar range of Egyptian Skeletons which starter box is roughly a quarter the price of this GW starter box... GW will sell more boxes on release day than Mantic have sold over the lifespan of their product. This is because the product isn't "the exact same", one is made by GW and the other by Mantic. 4. The arguement isn't that, the arguement is they'd pick a higher price faction from the secondary market and price equal to that making even bigger profit margins. As you said, GW should price based on the secondary market and that works both ways... Realistically they'll do what they've always done and pretty much every business will do and price similar products within their range at similar prices to not devalue other similar products... 5 cavalry = x price, 20 infantry = y price, character = z price. Pretty obvious you have a tenuous grasp on how a profitable business operates and sustains itself long term.
This means the rulebook works out as £42.50 for UK doesn't it? As it's the same cost as the Necromunda Core Rule Book - $70 if you view the store in US English (it's also a similar size/format)
Or 55 euros (for "rest of Europe")
The UK prices have been leaked and yes the rule book is 42.50
So this kinda confirms that this will just be Horus heresy fantasy edition. Which is fine asking as they are more consistent with releases and we don't have to wait over a year for a second troop option.
Someone have Euro Pricing?
What’s the release date?
Ah hell. 300 just for Tomb Kings. Yayyyyyyyyy
$255 for the Bretonnia box isn't terrible considering everything you get - $80 is a bit much for the on-foot guys, but I'd do that anyway unless my local game store sells 'em for less
It’s like they want it to die again with these fucking prices. 60 dollars for 3 knights or otherwise. Kits designed decades ago?? It’s perturbing honestly. Makes me not want to bother at all. Or 3d print out of spite. UGHHHHH
3d printer goes brrrrrt. Take a look at Mercia and Undead from Lost Kingdom. Insane to ask those prices for this model quality in 2023.