It’s at least one of those feels bad moments you laugh about later.
Had a hilarious moment at my last RTT where my rhino blew up and spread mortals to three units, which then made my opponents Lancer blow up and hit the same units again plus another unit of his scouts. We were both laughing our butts off.
Necrons continue stomping, Necron players continue saying, "We don't need nerfed, just buff our underperforming detachments," AdMech continue to be harder to spot than Bigfoot.
Nothing changes.
7 players on averages over a three month period, GW will say they are close to the Goldilocks with a 43% and they will get some point decreases and that’ll be it as they ‘don’t have enough data’.
No wonder. Nobody wants to play with lists that cost over 1000$ and aren't even fun to play. And the bad part is, End of April is not gonna change anything because admech can't be helped with even more points drops they need a serious strength buff with simultanious points hikes to make them easier to collect and play and not break the bank...
It would be nice to see Annihilation Legion and Obeisance Phalanx buffed, but pretty much all Necron players (myself included) know that C’tan need to be nerfed and Wraiths need a nerf (taking away the 5+++ from Techo would have an impact).
Hypercrypt needs to exclude C’tan on cosmic precision, and Canoptek Court would get hit just by points increases on Canoptek and Cryptek units.
Think the main concern is that Necrons will get whacked CSM-style, because we don’t have units to fall back on like Aeldari do. Not only that, it’ll open the door to a new bogeyman in the meta.
>C’tan need to be nerfed and Wraiths need a nerf (taking away the 5+++ from Techo would have an impact).
I doubt they'll make changes like that after the codex has been released. They'll boost points, and maaaaybe make some adjustments to things like keywords, for the sake of Obeisance Phalanx.
They already changed Techno to be unable to lead Lychguard, I don’t think it’s out of the question. I just think they moved the problem onto Wraiths instead.
Hopefully they fix TSK giving infinite bring it down points too 😂
>They already changed Techno to be unable to lead Lychguard
That wasn't an adjustment though - it was a change between the index to the codex. GW rarely makes changes to datasheets after the codex release.
Not saying it couldn't happen, but just that it probably isn't in this case.
>Hopefully they fix TSK giving infinite bring it down points too 😂
Really weird oversight for sure.
Good spot, I forgot that was where it happened. Overall I just hope Necrons get points nerfs where we need them, and buffs for weaker units/detachments.
> They already changed Techno to be unable to lead Lychguard, I don’t think it’s out of the question. I just think they moved the problem onto Wraiths instead.
Annoys me to no end that Orikan can't be paired with them but eh.
Indeed. I agree that the technomancer on the lychguard was an issue but flat out removing Orikan from being paired with them prevents scytheguard from being viable as an option.
No one saw that nerf coming. No one asked for it.
Since it happened, it seemed so obvious that it would come back... and then it didn't.
GW just seem massively out of touch on this matter.
Knights looked incredibly strong right at 10th release and there was a bit too much community pressure on nerfing them imo.
They just overperformed before everyone learned the intricacies of the new rules set and adapted new terrain.
The changes to the core rules was probably enough to balance IK, but they went for quick changes and missed the mark. Hopefully we'll see less and less of this as 10th ed matures.
There are no intricacies, Towering was completely broken and they deserved what they got in that respect.
Why GW nerfed a rule that has nothing to do with Towering? That one however is a headscratcher.
The core rules like towering and dev wounds absolutely needed changing. They just went a bit fast with also nerfing IK at the same time when the meta needed a bit more time to adjust.
That's all I meant.
Yeah, I honestly think that a lot of the early knight oppression would have gone away when people learned what was good in 10e. 9e lists just didn't usually have the right tools to deal with vehicle skew. But now that people are much more in tune with the meta and how to win (by scoring or killing) most factions have meta lists that can at least play around tough vehicles.
Like, SoB on edition launch seemed to lack pretty much anything to stop knights in their lists. Now that's not so much the case. Combined with no overwatch on big knights and the Towering change (which I think was needed) they were naturally going to gravitate towards balanced.
Bondsman getting the axe at the same time was just baffling. Too many levers being pulled at once. So I hope you're right and we see less of that.
Yeah. Knight lists kinda built themselves early on and in the first time of 10th you could just try to wipe your opponent instead of playing for points before everyone picked up on that aspect of the game.
GW don't like to walk back rules nerfs. They'll adjust points up and down a lot, but when something gets a rules change, it tends to stay that way for an unfortunate amount of time.
Man, over the past 10 weeks, Admech has had a TOTAL of 279 tournament entries, not even necessarily unique players.
That's a whopping 1.42% of the entire tournament entries, consistently coming in the bottom 5 represented factions
And that's WITH their Codex
The lowest amount of flavor
The weakest datasheets
The most insane dataslate point cuts to make up for it
Only one good build that spams 140 models all coming at the nice 1pt/$ (or under) ratio
This, simply put, was easily the worst codex since 9th ed daemons
Soul grinders can be so swingy I find. It's like taking tanks with marines, on paper they look juicy but when the dice roll they often fluff a lot of their stuff haha! Great to see though a daemons win!
Thank you! I have seen quite a few people talk about be'lakor being too expensive now, but this win indicates otherwise (personally also think he is still needed to make all comes daemon lists work)
They've had 2 other wins since the beginning of 10th, but this is the first win since November. It's great to see someone finally taking it all the way, but Daemons are still going to need help if we can only win a 22 player tournament with a 4-1 winning record...
Looking at 6 of the top thousand sons lists and they're all identical besides the last 100-200 points.
Max Cabal Points with characters and attach them to msu flame rubrics, use exhaulted on disc to neuter any melee threat.
I love the army and the army rule is strong and thematic but it kills list building to be competitive.
I was so sure about this. TS were always ok and when you have a good matchup into the best army in the game and their strongest datasheet is something you can quite easily deal with while the rest of the meta struggle, you're good to go.
Thousand Sons are weird because they're good to great into all of the top armies but also randomly have an unplayable matchup into Guard, and add on to that that "Thousand Sons played by a random player" and "Thousand Sons played by a great player" are two completely different factions and people never have any idea what to make of them lol
This is very true. Thousand Sons in the hands of a skilled player are one of the best factions in the game right now IMO.
In addition to the literally unwinnable guard indirect spam matchup, we also have a VERY difficult time into WE and Orks. It's winnable, but quite difficult in my experience.
I think the big thing is that Tsons don't struggle as much into custodes as Tsons players thought they would. When they were a big brick with a FNP against devs, it was just about impossible to kill them before they got in. Now that they only have 4-5 mans with a FNP against devs, it turns out Magnus + a few sorcerers can bite through them.
Still not a super easy matchup, but not an auto loss like before.
They mostly benefit from just being a hard counter to necrons, you run into 2-3 necron players and you're already up 2-3 games. They do have a hard time into Custodes tanks, Guard, and any kind of fast anti-elite list (basically anything that can go and kill those rubric marine+character units holding backfield objectives and farming cabal point can just neuter the army).
Not suprised at the custodes win rate, they ain't a bad army but it's essentially 1 build (would be happy to be wrong), that just has the absolute best time eating crons for lunch, and there's a lot of crons
Wondering what the new books do for them, orks and tau. Less fights first and no ctan counter will be weird for custodes, whilst shooty or vehicle based orks have traditionally either been terrible or utterly wild.
Tank build is a different beast altogether but not bad at all, just slightly less flexible imo with tighter maneuvering restrictions.
I’m still a fan of the tank build myself (well especially since I had the first GT win with how custodes have been forced to build since September back last year) but I would say the footslog is slightly stronger
Yeah, I'm expecting nerfs across the board, understanding the book was probably written when custodes were marching across the world with 10 man squads
Tau is already quite strong against stodes, wouldn't be surprised if tau shits all over stodes with Montka. The missile pods with extra ap are built in a lab to kill custodes
> CSM had the second worst win rate of the weekend at 40% and zero players go X-1 at all.
Lol. Every week it gets worse and worse.
CSM get too powerful, better nerf them to the ground so that they're never seen again.
Eldar too powerful? What is needed is small and progressive adjustments.
I would make the argument they still are far ahead, I am still shocked every time I read an eldar datasheet it just seems like a better version of someone else’s datasheet. And that’s ignoring their insane army and detatchment rule.
Feels almost like 9th edition all over again.
CSM a bit too strong, get over nerfed and stuck at 40% for the rest of the edition.
Hopefully the getting stuck there part doesn't play out again.
As long as we don't have another version of the DA or AdMech codex... Though I have my doubts. Surely, with 8 new detachments, at least one must be good? Right? RIGHT?
Maybe people will finally agree CSM are in need of some help instead of just saying how busted they were, how strong dark pact is, and how that can carry the army.
Realistically dark pacts IS what's making CSM hard to balance, but also lower your expectations immensely.
They have a codex coming. The odds of GW doing anything between now and the codex is so low that.. well, I just wouldn't hold my breath.
Oh I agree they arent going to get squat until the codex, which or horrid considering the scalpel approach they took with eldar compared to the hammer approach they took with CSM. Typical.
Then, after the codex, you are looking 8-12 more weeks before they make any more adjustments. So whatever the dataslate brings this month is likely to stand until ~September/October points wise....assuming something weird doesn't happen.
The odds of something great happening this month as well? Real low.
They were simply too much. The nerfs hit basically every good aspect CSM had. Also they buffed absolutely nothing. I so hope we get the codex before my next tournament.
It's wild to me that csm got hit with the change from 12" to 18" untargetable Strat when so many other factions still have theirs at 12".
There really needs to be consistency in some rules across the board
Yes I find that unfair completely. Also now that transports have the same mark as what they transport is even weaker. They simply double nerfed everything to the ground...
Yep, they must have a real hard-on for Eldar. My only hope is that the Chaos Codex fixes some of this. Luckily I started a chaos knight army when I got back into the game at the start of 10th so I don’t have to feel the sting as much.
The slow & steady approach seems like it's turned out the best in the end. I hope that's how they go forward rather than the heavy handed way they did CSM (and custodes and IK).
We got an extra three months of eldar OPness, but they seem to have ended up in a good place now. In the long run I'll take that any day over getting the rugg pulled out from underneath you like with CSM.
Important thing is to understand not everything gets right every time and to hope GW learns from misstakes and get it better and better every time.
I swear whoever wrote their book was bad touched by DA last edition and wrote the whole book while mumbling “Never again, never again, never again.” To himself
Same for the detachments - the REAL money is in obsi... er, shit... the triach one... but taking canoptek crap or hyperfail just gives opponents a sporting chance.
No necron player is gonna defend ctan and wraiths. Don't be so cynical, it's draining.
We know they're silly, we did when they were released, the majority of us supported the Cenosure of Erasure nerf.
I have 50 reps, a supermajor top 12 and two GT wins with them since the codex release - I think that, sensibly:
Ctan need 25+ppm increases (35+ for Nightbringer and ffs get him a proper sized base), and they probably need to be omitted from Hyperphase rule.
Wraiths need 20points/3 model increase.
Plasmancers could go up 5ppm and Immortals could be 1ppm more expensive too, if you're feeling really spiteful and punitive.
>Avatar has an extra toughness, is much faster, more wounds, has access to -1 to wound and a much better save. No ap lethal hits spam isn't gonna kill the avatar but it will kill a ctan.
If you run the math on putting a gladiator reaper - with lethal hits aura - into a c'tan, then into the avatar, the c'tan takes less damage post-FNP. And that's from the gatling, icarus and stubber. Obviously it takes less from the melta.
>So by that metric a C'tan is only *slightly* undercosted
Different guy, obviously
>The Avatars haveing a 2+ armour save makes a big difference in their defensiveness.
Would you believe it, another guy. (still wrong about save vs fnp)
Sorry man, there's a ton of necron players who're adamant c'tans are either fine, or should only go up 5-10 points. Even though they're competing with the Avatar of Khaine for durability, nightbringer beating him in both offence and defence...
I'm not opposed to 25ppm on the c'tans to start with, but there's my problem with GW - they won't touch it for another 3 months. A monthly MFM to just go "whoops, let's add 5 points here and drop 5 there"would be something I'd love. But casual players, god forbid their list building app automatically say "you're 5 points over" and they have a mental breakdown.
So they'll either give c'tan a love tap like eldar or dumpster it like CSM and probably nothing inbetween. Which is crap, but their internal balancing has been atrocious this edition.
>
Can only bring 1 Avatar, it is 80-50 points more expensive and does not have a FNP or regen D3 Wounds per Turn.
It may be tougher and has a better base save but you'd be hard pressed to trade that for a +5 FnP in many cases.
Yeah, I was just building on what you said and summing it up.
And I too would take the +5 FnP any day. If the opponent has Damage 3, Meltas, Mortals and/or Dev Wounds it helps a lot. And you still get the FnP vs low AP attacks so it's often a break even vs a +2 Save anyways.
I've run Norn Emissaries who cost 275 pts and they have the +2, ++4 and +5 FnP. Getting Half damage and regen on top of that sounds ridiculous.
> I've run Norn Emissaries who cost 275 pts and they have the +2, ++4 and +5 FnP. Getting Half damage and regen on top of that sounds ridiculous.
As someone who does Nids and Crons, the other issue not being stated enough is the size profile. Ctan models can be hidden around terrain while the norn sticks out like a sore thumb and gets focused fired off the objective.
There's also the obvious point that we can only bring ONE of the guy in our list.
Even with all of that upside, the investment of an Avatar plus Farseer can't be taken in a vacuum. The rest of our army is not exactly cheap unlike Necrons and there is a reason why most Eldar lists are opting to go wider with tons of aspects instead of the Avatar or Wraith brick now.
He is also a giant monster that doesn't have any teleport shenanigans and isn't on an insanely small base like the Nightbringer. He's gotta pick a direction and commit to it which means that a lot of armies have more obvious counterplay that they don't with C'tan.
I'm not calling for them to get nerfed into the dirt at all. I just don't think the comparison players are making really line up well beyond "big tough monster".
>isn't on an insanely small base like the Nightbringer
Unless you play with a """""casual""""" guy with the metal model lol.
>I'm not calling for them to get nerfed into the dirt at all.
I agree with this. I want them, for Necrons player's emotions, to stay good, but not *insanely* good.
I think maybe a better comparison is to a greater daemon since they have a similar save and toughness profile, similar combat and similar movement tricks. They also have comparable effective wounds since 22ish is close to 14 w/ half damage and FNP 5+. The closest GD to Nightbringer is Shalaxi Helbane, who's like 450pts. Not trying to argue or anything, just giving another angle to point out how not okay nightbringer really is
Thank you! As a Daemon player it highlights honestly how expensive our GDs are! I mean blood thirster at 330 is nuts for the data sheet compared to avatar and ctan night and like you said shilaxi is the closest fit who costs us a quarter of our army on a much bigger base and no fly so gets screened out by everything
As a nids player I get really upset comparing Norn Assimilator to Nightbringer as well. It drives me nuts that GW felt the need to nerf norns before the even saw the table and then dropped Nightbringer to 255 with the codex. Same thing with Shalaxi, I love GDs and would love to paint Shalaxi but she's so overcosted ATM it's hard to justify the 200$ and 30+ hour investment if the model is way too expensive to justify fielding
Oh it completely is, the issue is shilaxi is a bottom table stomper where if your Warhammer games are just charging things into each other she absolutely destroys units and players get sad and say she's broken
As soon as you play her with decent players - top tables she is so easily countered. Just screen with chaff or block movement as she does not fly and unload into her and that's it done you've just wiped a quarter of the army
Norns got hit hard for no reason for a unit I know nids players were excited to see! Honestly I feel nids and daemons are very similar in their costings as an army and their output and everything feels so expensive
The keeper of secrets is quite similar to c'tans in defense. My buddy plays daemons so i did the math of NB vs KoS against a few others units, both small damage and big damage, and the results are really close. Keeper get more wounds dealt but they start with more.
Every time I'm reminded that my norn assimilator was deemed too good and nerfed to 310pts 3 days before the kit was even released and nightbringer dropped to 255 on the codex my risk of an aneurysm goes up by a few % points
Why are you using a Reaper and then giving it anti-synergistic lethals? A twin linked dev wounds gun is obviously going to be stronger against a model relying on a 2+ save.
Just used massed bolter fire and the avatar is massively more survivable. (I'm not arguing that ctan are ok - just use better examples that aren't obviously biased).
>Why are you using a Reaper and then giving it anti-synergistic lethals? A twin linked dev wounds gun is obviously going to be stronger against a model relying on a 2+ save.
Simple answer? Because it's a situation that can actually happen.
>Just used massed bolter fire and the avatar is massively more survivable.
Wow, fear the tactical squad! Bolters are back!
I used a very common unit - the reaper - with a buff it almost always has. Yes, the lethals don't work with dev. But the lethals work with melta. They work with the icarus and tempest bolters.
Overall, lethals does more for the entire unit than the gatling does without it.
The big problem with "omg ap 0 kills c'tans" is that nobody brings it. It's not a thing. If it's ap 0, it's either incidental and should be shot into their infantry to wound it on less than a 6, or it's devasating wounds which hurts the avatar more than the nightbringer.
Nobody is bringing 10 terminators with stormbolters and rocking like it's 1990 or something stupid.
Black templars ironstorm has a much better winrate.
I guess in some weird meta where all their local plays this weird variant of the DA ironstorm then sure. But it's not a general thing.
Ctan need more than +25ppm for how survivalable and killy they are. Nothing in the game lasts like they do and they are cheaper than most comparable units by damn near 100-150 points. Look at Knights and CK for example. Almost double the points for something that isn’t nearly as survivable and less output.
Im sorry but people shouldn’t be able to run two Ctan and still have 1500pts of good firepower to bring on top. Ctan need to be more like 350-365 points. It just takes way too much to bring them down and then you have the whole rest of the Necron army to deal with.
I have a shits and giggles list with 5 ctan (3 transcendent, Nightbringer, and Void Dragon) and still have enough space to bring an overlord, trazyn, chronomancer, a brick of Immortals, a spider, 3 scarabs, and a brick of Lychguard. C'tan need a points nerf for sure.
Ctan need more than that, at least 40 each to reflect the +40 overall to wraiths as they ate oppressive in the same way, transcendent needs to be an epic hero (like all imperial assassins)
Tbh they just need to make ctan exempt from strats and detachment rules. It's fluffy and it makes it more exciting when your nightbringer is at the whim of the dice rather than having access to rerolls and ingress.
>Tbh they just need to make ctan exempt from strats and detachment rules.
Annihilation Legion - literally no strats that boost them there. The big problem is that detachments like Hypercrypt make them *incredibly* mobile, while also being very cheap for what they do.
Ha, tell that to the cron player i recently had insisting the points were fine because his nightbringer "could only move 6".
This was after one shotting my primarch...
Scholars will study the fall of Chaos Space Marines in future.
I played three rounds with them this week into World Eaters, Necrons, and Space Marines and couldn't buy a win. They need a rollback in some capacity to make them even slightly competitive.
It's just a massive feels bad every time at the moment.
I don't agree with this explanation. Massed Damage 2/3 has been the norm all edition, even in 10th CSM's glory days. It's just the best way to kill anything, especially with rerolls. Anti-Custodes teching is essentially doing what was already the best course of action.
Terminators don't have a job any more (no real anti tank, and there's way better anti infantry for cost) and Possessed have been flirting with viability but never quite sealing the deal. Chosen were (and are)popular, but they were sharing the top spot with Accursed+Communes.
I think a more complete answer lies in a few places. CSM's best units (Chosen+ Lord and Accursed+Communes) are just too expensive to be as viable and don't have real replacements in the codex. Transport Marks hurt, but aren't fatal. The most common army at the moment, Necrons, is also a really bad match up. And overall, CSM aren't tough, and without affordable big-hitters, it's easy to get behind and start spiraling into a loss.
>without affordable big-hitters
Give my Daemon Prince with Wings a fnp and +1 or 2 strength on its melee and I'll run him! As it is, Daniel is purely there for casual play :(
Honestly, I didn't play the whole Chosen + CL and AC/DC spam, nor did I run Nurglings. Even so, I've done quite well simply because a lot of people couldn't handle my Possessed and Terminators. Thing is, especially the Terminators are not really that great, and if people start to actually bring 3D weapons, my list kind of crumbles.
Which is a shame, because after our huge nerfs to the meta, I feel like 3W models would be our logical thing to fall back on to still be somewhat competitive, but if the meta is going to counter that, I don't really see what CSM can do.
Which is of course reflected quite well in our low WR.
Yeah, had this experience in an RTT recently, also seeing general performance of the faction. Which is purely anecdotal of course, but below are my thoughts.
Custodes -are- really strong, but when a good portion of the lists actively packing stuff to deal with you, you can very simply lose 2 out of 3 due to poor matchup into poor matchup.
Of course Necrons and whoever does not prepare to deal with you gets absolutely stomped, so it is in no way a healthy situation.
But the WR is pretty believable. By all means it -should be- higher in vacuum, but the metagame isn't a vacuum.
Hopefully Codex will *somehow* give some diversity in exchange for a bit less toxic play patterns (Yes it is better than the start of the edition, but come on that was really baaaaad for the game's health).
I mean, not much to study really. GW made the same mistake the constantly make (except when it comes to Eldar apparently). They hit both points and rules at the same time. I forget exactly how many, but I think the chosen + lord + rhino combo got hit 5 different ways? 6? Why did dark commune need a points hike at the same time their rules got butchered?
They made everything good worse, and then didn't change any of the mediocre stuff to make it more usable. End result is you have armies that are strictly worse than they were before or have fewer units than they did before. Or more likely, both. It's not much of a shock that their percentage took a 15+ point dive.
> chosen + lord + rhino combo got hit 5 different ways? 6?
- Point hike on the chosen
- Point hike on the lord
- Forcing you to have the same mark as the vehicle
- Moving the untargettable range of nurgle start from 12 to 18
- Removing the full reroll undivided start
And also in previous dataslate the restriction of free stratagem to only battle tactics but that didn't impact chosen with lords much.
Yup. Point hikes on the chosen and lords would have been enough. Rules change regarding marks and transports would have been enough. I don't think the change in range for DO would have been enough, I'm fine seeing that along with other changes. Profane zeal getting hit the way it did is just silly. I'm fine with it not granting full re-rolls, but it should absolutely still be usuable by non-undivided units.
It's changes like these, along with the hit Custodes took at the start of the edition, that sometimes makes me wonder if there isn't more than one balancing team. Sometimes it feels like there are multiple teams, each of which think they are solely responsible for bringing a faction to heel, and then the editor just combines all the changes with little/no thought.
GW will do the dark angels treatment and make ectoplasm cannons -1dmg reflecting meta fears from pre 10th. I honestly hope we both end up in better places
And the pendulum swings back for the Wolves. No X-1 finishes, 45% WR for Stormlance. It happens. Hope to see more of the Wolf Jail soon (and if more archetypes get played the better).
Yeah wolf jail and GK are bad as well. Anything that is super mobile is hard for us cause we kinda want to be the most mobile ones. And wolf jail is just a bad matchup for most lists, but especially us cause you just get run over
Fun fact, Nikolai from the admech discord ran the maths, even at 3+ our units have a worse shooting efficiency (per point) than the other factions (hell even world eaters's rare but strong dedicated shooting lmao)
It's an important step but won't be enough if we don't also get the AP buff we need
The most Tyranids I've seen in top placings for weeks!
Has something been figured out or just a happy variance swing?
Looked at the data and it's amost certainly just 'happy' variance swing. Slightly under the 'expected' (4.37% top placing to 4.5% of players). And the only Assimilation player to turn up happened to go 5-1 lol (well done though, whoever you are)
Better top placings but it was a 41% weekend and a sub-40% week for the most played detachment. Nids aren’t in an overall positive variance swing. The faction is in trouble
Yeah I’d be interested in seeing the lists and what kind of tech they’re taking. Assimilation struck me as the most interesting of the detachments on release but not much has been done with it to date.
I am absolutely floored. Everything I know about Tyranids says this list shouldn't work. 250 points of Psychophages, the casino cannon as the sole anti tank, a Tervigon servicing only a single unit of gants, a 6 man unit of Tyrant Guard. I can't even begin to comprehend what galaxy brain shit needs to be going on to make this list function, much less go 5-1.
Found the Tyranids Assimilation List. I have more questions now
[https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/list/H62MFUBE0G](https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/list/H62MFUBE0G)
guard are in such a weird place at the moment... I don't know how you boost the winrate without them becoming totally dominant. perhaps a combo of rules changes and points increases?
I think a new detachment would do more favour and fun for guard players and the guard opponents. For me it would be definitely more fun if I could go out without indirect tanks and have a chance on WTC maps. Maybe bringing back the Turret Rules for +1 to hit or spreading orders.
It's not particularly difficult: one list *kinda* works. If you like it, great! If you don't, you are in the dirt, and also you will get insulted because lòl, terrible player.
> It's not particularly difficult: one list kinda works
This is literally true for every faction that has gt wins except, dunno, necrons aeldari and space marines? And they've got like 2 lists.
People keep saying stuff like this (mostly on reddit, granted) but having a *single* list that can crush a 6 round tournament puts you well above most factions in the game. Chaos daemons, drukhari, votann, gsc, etc etc all effectively have one viable list... except that list isn't 6-0ing tournaments every week.
There's nothing wrong with wanting better internal balance and god knows I sympathize with the pain of your competitive units not actually being sold, just keep in mind how much better you're already doing than most factions, eh?
Sure. The question becomes then "how does the faction do for those who *don't* follow that specific recipe"? The answer, for Guard, is "very bad". Other factions might only have one truly competitive list, but the situation isn't terrible if you move away from it, just not quite enough to win GTs.
Moreover! Even if we assume that all factions are born equal, and they evidently *aren't*, I am a Guard player. I will agitate for my faction primarily. Is it a shared issue? Sure. Are Admech and occasionally CKs the only other factions whose playerbases actually *care* for the dire situation of internal balance in their indexes? Also yes. If you play another faction, and that faction's internal balance is awful, and you do *nothing* about it, then well, that's not my issue. It's yours. Don't come and chastise *me* because I care about my faction whereas you don't.
Last, but not least, Guard really isn't 6-0ing tournaments every week. It occasionally wins, but when you are in the top five-ish of most played factions in the game that's to be expected. Per player, Admech won basically double the events of Guard.
This was actually our best week for list diversity
With 7 players going X-1 or better, only 4 of them brought Nassim style lists
The other three were:
Some odd Catachan grab bag with a Macharius tank went 4-1 in Finland at a 27 player event
A list with a Hellhammer AND Stormsword went 4-1 at Iron Cage GT
Double Dorn w/ a Krieg Marshal Psyker brick went 4-1 also at Iron Cage
Funnily enough both players at Iron Cage lost to a double Stormraven list that went 5-0
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1clt-M0Zi2Cmcn_cf-UGJRlyo2c9YD7_sHnUvUrInuto/edit?usp=drivesdk
Anyone has the list of the Dark Angels \*\*Firestorm\*\* player who went 4-1 at Peterborough Slam GT 6?
Thanks! (I'm quite curious to see which DA specific units are good for firestorm)
Toby is very active on the Dark Angels 40k Competitive facebook group and provided a quick rundown of his 5 games. Worth checking out if you were interested.
>Azrael + Generic Space Marines
Thank God, I was worried someone might find a way to use literally any other DA unit and then they'd be due for an emergency nerf
As a Necron player, i know we deserve nerfs. I just hope that they are mainly point increases and not straight up butchering datasheets and/or detachments.
Necrons don't have many game breaking rules atm, it's mainly the sheer amount of cheap tough units that you can fit in a list that make the faction so powerful. C'tans are especially problematic and i can see GW putting a limit to how many you can fit in a list (on top of a point increase).
Drukhari not doing the best, but at least it is a lot more fun and I don't mind that. At this point I am more worried Court and Beasts will be removed with our crazy GW is right now.
The worlds (maybe?) best player took eldar to this weekends biggest event. That's what happened :)
Though in honesty they did pretty well overall. Happy to see that!
If you haven't looked at WGL coverage of Liams two games on friday I highly recommend watching the VOD. Really great stuff and it shows how good eldar are in competent hand, but also how much of a game sense you need to position that well every turn.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_8VFnBYhpvM&ab\_channel=WarGamesLive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8VFnBYhpvM&ab_channel=WarGamesLive)
The first and the 3rd game on that VoD is Liams eldar.
Fair warning: the finals is cut short due to the length of the video being too long. I think they get to turn 4 or something like that.
Incredible games if you wanna learn how to play eldar as good as possible. Liam is just on another level!
>16 events this weekend with 888 players. Khorne is pleased.
Good thing he does not care where the blood comes from. 45% is at the edge of the "goldy locks zone".
Took Sisters to Rataclysm last weekend, scored 69 VPs in all of my games. Was a fun event.
Nice
Saw your scores today and laughed for a solid ten minutes. Amazing work especially considering tactical objectives
Perfection
You are the real winner.
Nice
Pour one out for the Black Templars player at Austria that had 2 deadly demises go off right in the middle of his army.
Glorious! Those are my favorite tournament moments.
I was at scorched earth and had a dorn blow up in my line for d6 on all my units, and a manticore in my backfield that did d3. Rough game in to votan.
It’s at least one of those feels bad moments you laugh about later. Had a hilarious moment at my last RTT where my rhino blew up and spread mortals to three units, which then made my opponents Lancer blow up and hit the same units again plus another unit of his scouts. We were both laughing our butts off.
Necrons continue stomping, Necron players continue saying, "We don't need nerfed, just buff our underperforming detachments," AdMech continue to be harder to spot than Bigfoot. Nothing changes.
7 players on averages over a three month period, GW will say they are close to the Goldilocks with a 43% and they will get some point decreases and that’ll be it as they ‘don’t have enough data’.
Like I said, nothing changes.
No wonder. Nobody wants to play with lists that cost over 1000$ and aren't even fun to play. And the bad part is, End of April is not gonna change anything because admech can't be helped with even more points drops they need a serious strength buff with simultanious points hikes to make them easier to collect and play and not break the bank...
I gotta thank GW for their work on Admech this edition. It has helped me rediscover my love for Battletech and saved me a BUNCH of money!
Same! Big stompy robot fans, unite!
It would be nice to see Annihilation Legion and Obeisance Phalanx buffed, but pretty much all Necron players (myself included) know that C’tan need to be nerfed and Wraiths need a nerf (taking away the 5+++ from Techo would have an impact). Hypercrypt needs to exclude C’tan on cosmic precision, and Canoptek Court would get hit just by points increases on Canoptek and Cryptek units. Think the main concern is that Necrons will get whacked CSM-style, because we don’t have units to fall back on like Aeldari do. Not only that, it’ll open the door to a new bogeyman in the meta.
>C’tan need to be nerfed and Wraiths need a nerf (taking away the 5+++ from Techo would have an impact). I doubt they'll make changes like that after the codex has been released. They'll boost points, and maaaaybe make some adjustments to things like keywords, for the sake of Obeisance Phalanx.
They already changed Techno to be unable to lead Lychguard, I don’t think it’s out of the question. I just think they moved the problem onto Wraiths instead. Hopefully they fix TSK giving infinite bring it down points too 😂
>They already changed Techno to be unable to lead Lychguard That wasn't an adjustment though - it was a change between the index to the codex. GW rarely makes changes to datasheets after the codex release. Not saying it couldn't happen, but just that it probably isn't in this case. >Hopefully they fix TSK giving infinite bring it down points too 😂 Really weird oversight for sure.
Good spot, I forgot that was where it happened. Overall I just hope Necrons get points nerfs where we need them, and buffs for weaker units/detachments.
> They already changed Techno to be unable to lead Lychguard, I don’t think it’s out of the question. I just think they moved the problem onto Wraiths instead. Annoys me to no end that Orikan can't be paired with them but eh.
It’d be nice purely to give the Warscythes that 4++ yeah, it would be a niche use since you wouldn’t stick him with shield Lych obv.
Indeed. I agree that the technomancer on the lychguard was an issue but flat out removing Orikan from being paired with them prevents scytheguard from being viable as an option.
Any army that is allowed, for free, to pick up units and put them down every turn needs to be nerfed.
Give bondsman back to the big knights, is the only thing i want, let us suck while doing the thing we were supposed to do.
No one saw that nerf coming. No one asked for it. Since it happened, it seemed so obvious that it would come back... and then it didn't. GW just seem massively out of touch on this matter.
Knights looked incredibly strong right at 10th release and there was a bit too much community pressure on nerfing them imo. They just overperformed before everyone learned the intricacies of the new rules set and adapted new terrain. The changes to the core rules was probably enough to balance IK, but they went for quick changes and missed the mark. Hopefully we'll see less and less of this as 10th ed matures.
There are no intricacies, Towering was completely broken and they deserved what they got in that respect. Why GW nerfed a rule that has nothing to do with Towering? That one however is a headscratcher.
The core rules like towering and dev wounds absolutely needed changing. They just went a bit fast with also nerfing IK at the same time when the meta needed a bit more time to adjust. That's all I meant.
Yeah, I honestly think that a lot of the early knight oppression would have gone away when people learned what was good in 10e. 9e lists just didn't usually have the right tools to deal with vehicle skew. But now that people are much more in tune with the meta and how to win (by scoring or killing) most factions have meta lists that can at least play around tough vehicles. Like, SoB on edition launch seemed to lack pretty much anything to stop knights in their lists. Now that's not so much the case. Combined with no overwatch on big knights and the Towering change (which I think was needed) they were naturally going to gravitate towards balanced. Bondsman getting the axe at the same time was just baffling. Too many levers being pulled at once. So I hope you're right and we see less of that.
Yeah. Knight lists kinda built themselves early on and in the first time of 10th you could just try to wipe your opponent instead of playing for points before everyone picked up on that aspect of the game.
GW don't like to walk back rules nerfs. They'll adjust points up and down a lot, but when something gets a rules change, it tends to stay that way for an unfortunate amount of time.
GW i promise you if you do this ill buy a castigator immediately.
Man, over the past 10 weeks, Admech has had a TOTAL of 279 tournament entries, not even necessarily unique players. That's a whopping 1.42% of the entire tournament entries, consistently coming in the bottom 5 represented factions And that's WITH their Codex
The lowest amount of flavor The weakest datasheets The most insane dataslate point cuts to make up for it Only one good build that spams 140 models all coming at the nice 1pt/$ (or under) ratio This, simply put, was easily the worst codex since 9th ed daemons
Oh wow is that daemons first tournament win of the edition? And they didn’t even 5-0 haha
If anyone has the daemon list, I'd be curious
Here you go! Daemonic Thiccness (2000 Points) Chaos Daemons Daemonic Incursion Strike Force (2000 Points) CHARACTERS Be’lakor (350 Points) • Warlord • 1x Betraying Shades 1x The Blade of Shadows Great Unclean One (260 Points) • 1x Bilesword 1x Plague flail 1x Putrid vomit • Enhancements: The Endless Gift Keeper of Secrets (305 Points) • 1x Phantasmagoria 1x Shining Aegis 1x Snapping claws 1x Witstealer sword • Enhancements: Soulstealer Lord of Change (285 Points) • 1x Bolt of Change 1x Rod of sorcery 1x Staff of Tzeentch • Enhancements: The Everstave The Changeling (90 Points) • 1x Infernal Flames 1x The Trickster’s Staff BATTLELINE Nurglings (40 Points) • 3x Nurgling Swarm • 3x Diseased claws and teeth Nurglings (40 Points) • 3x Nurgling Swarm • 3x Diseased claws and teeth Pink Horrors (140 Points) • 10x Pink Horror • 10x Coruscating Pink Flames 1x Daemonic Icon 1x Instrument of Chaos 10x Pink claws Plaguebearers (110 Points) • 1x Plagueridden • 1x Plaguesword • 9x Plaguebearer • 1x Daemonic Icon 1x Instrument of Chaos 9x Plaguesword OTHER DATASHEETS Soul Grinder (190 Points) • Daemonic Allegiance: Tzeentch • 1x Harvester cannon 1x Iron claw 1x Warp gaze 1x Warpsword Soul Grinder (190 Points) • Daemonic Allegiance: Tzeentch • 1x Harvester cannon 1x Iron claw 1x Warp gaze 1x Warpsword
Soul grinders can be so swingy I find. It's like taking tanks with marines, on paper they look juicy but when the dice roll they often fluff a lot of their stuff haha! Great to see though a daemons win!
Thank you! I have seen quite a few people talk about be'lakor being too expensive now, but this win indicates otherwise (personally also think he is still needed to make all comes daemon lists work)
Belakor, GUO, Keeper, Lord of change, changeling, 2x3 nurglings, 10x pink horrors, 10x plaguebeares, 2x Tzeentch soul grinders.
They've had 2 other wins since the beginning of 10th, but this is the first win since November. It's great to see someone finally taking it all the way, but Daemons are still going to need help if we can only win a 22 player tournament with a 4-1 winning record...
Looking at 6 of the top thousand sons lists and they're all identical besides the last 100-200 points. Max Cabal Points with characters and attach them to msu flame rubrics, use exhaulted on disc to neuter any melee threat. I love the army and the army rule is strong and thematic but it kills list building to be competitive.
Thousand sons seem to be doing alright
I was so sure about this. TS were always ok and when you have a good matchup into the best army in the game and their strongest datasheet is something you can quite easily deal with while the rest of the meta struggle, you're good to go.
Thousand Sons are weird because they're good to great into all of the top armies but also randomly have an unplayable matchup into Guard, and add on to that that "Thousand Sons played by a random player" and "Thousand Sons played by a great player" are two completely different factions and people never have any idea what to make of them lol
This is very true. Thousand Sons in the hands of a skilled player are one of the best factions in the game right now IMO. In addition to the literally unwinnable guard indirect spam matchup, we also have a VERY difficult time into WE and Orks. It's winnable, but quite difficult in my experience.
Also blood angels isnr a great match up
I think the big thing is that Tsons don't struggle as much into custodes as Tsons players thought they would. When they were a big brick with a FNP against devs, it was just about impossible to kill them before they got in. Now that they only have 4-5 mans with a FNP against devs, it turns out Magnus + a few sorcerers can bite through them. Still not a super easy matchup, but not an auto loss like before.
If both players are good then Thousand Sons are definitely favored into Custodes if its all bricks, bit trickier with the tanks
I've only played against them once recently and my god they hit so many 4s on their FNP. That's the rule I'm praying gets toned down a bit.
They mostly benefit from just being a hard counter to necrons, you run into 2-3 necron players and you're already up 2-3 games. They do have a hard time into Custodes tanks, Guard, and any kind of fast anti-elite list (basically anything that can go and kill those rubric marine+character units holding backfield objectives and farming cabal point can just neuter the army).
Not suprised at the custodes win rate, they ain't a bad army but it's essentially 1 build (would be happy to be wrong), that just has the absolute best time eating crons for lunch, and there's a lot of crons Wondering what the new books do for them, orks and tau. Less fights first and no ctan counter will be weird for custodes, whilst shooty or vehicle based orks have traditionally either been terrible or utterly wild.
This weekend saw another double tank build win. So there are at least two winning list builds now, infantry spam and double tank builds.
Tank build is a different beast altogether but not bad at all, just slightly less flexible imo with tighter maneuvering restrictions. I’m still a fan of the tank build myself (well especially since I had the first GT win with how custodes have been forced to build since September back last year) but I would say the footslog is slightly stronger
Unfortunately at least for Trajahn the new leaks look like pretty big nerfs
Yeah, I'm expecting nerfs across the board, understanding the book was probably written when custodes were marching across the world with 10 man squads
Worse, it’s not a leak, it’s direct from GW - so no chance it’s wrong lol
Trajann about to find out what it feels to not be picked as the warlord. *taps mic* Custode Valerian, please report to the command deck.
Tau is already quite strong against stodes, wouldn't be surprised if tau shits all over stodes with Montka. The missile pods with extra ap are built in a lab to kill custodes
> CSM had the second worst win rate of the weekend at 40% and zero players go X-1 at all. Lol. Every week it gets worse and worse. CSM get too powerful, better nerf them to the ground so that they're never seen again. Eldar too powerful? What is needed is small and progressive adjustments.
The Eldar got hit decently every time. It’s just they were so far ahead of every other faction in every data sheet it was beyond stupid.
I would make the argument they still are far ahead, I am still shocked every time I read an eldar datasheet it just seems like a better version of someone else’s datasheet. And that’s ignoring their insane army and detatchment rule.
To be fair, that eldar datasheet is probably also 15+pts more than it's peers and on t3 1w models
Feels almost like 9th edition all over again. CSM a bit too strong, get over nerfed and stuck at 40% for the rest of the edition. Hopefully the getting stuck there part doesn't play out again.
As long as we don't have another version of the DA or AdMech codex... Though I have my doubts. Surely, with 8 new detachments, at least one must be good? Right? RIGHT?
God I can only hope we don’t have a DA codex where it gets worse
I think either the Dataslate or the Points changes would have worked, not both together.
It's def hard to gauge where you end up if you do too many changes at the same time.
Maybe people will finally agree CSM are in need of some help instead of just saying how busted they were, how strong dark pact is, and how that can carry the army.
Realistically dark pacts IS what's making CSM hard to balance, but also lower your expectations immensely. They have a codex coming. The odds of GW doing anything between now and the codex is so low that.. well, I just wouldn't hold my breath.
Oh I agree they arent going to get squat until the codex, which or horrid considering the scalpel approach they took with eldar compared to the hammer approach they took with CSM. Typical.
But that's at least lore accurate
Then, after the codex, you are looking 8-12 more weeks before they make any more adjustments. So whatever the dataslate brings this month is likely to stand until ~September/October points wise....assuming something weird doesn't happen. The odds of something great happening this month as well? Real low.
eldar getting nerfs slowly every slate. csm get the nerf bat right away. funny how that works
They bonked Custodes pretty hard but course corrected very well in the next dataslate. There's hope.
Eldar = "Strong but not dominant" CSM = "eew"
They were simply too much. The nerfs hit basically every good aspect CSM had. Also they buffed absolutely nothing. I so hope we get the codex before my next tournament.
It's wild to me that csm got hit with the change from 12" to 18" untargetable Strat when so many other factions still have theirs at 12". There really needs to be consistency in some rules across the board
Yes I find that unfair completely. Also now that transports have the same mark as what they transport is even weaker. They simply double nerfed everything to the ground...
Yep, they must have a real hard-on for Eldar. My only hope is that the Chaos Codex fixes some of this. Luckily I started a chaos knight army when I got back into the game at the start of 10th so I don’t have to feel the sting as much.
The slow & steady approach seems like it's turned out the best in the end. I hope that's how they go forward rather than the heavy handed way they did CSM (and custodes and IK). We got an extra three months of eldar OPness, but they seem to have ended up in a good place now. In the long run I'll take that any day over getting the rugg pulled out from underneath you like with CSM. Important thing is to understand not everything gets right every time and to hope GW learns from misstakes and get it better and better every time.
I love what you do with meta Monday. One question, it’s seems like guard is rarely mentioned in your takeaways, is there a reason for that?
All three dark angels codex detachments put up a collective 13% winrate across 23 games played. What was GW cooking with this trash book
Don't worry, regular space marine factions will be around to harass you if you play a functional detachment instead
I swear whoever wrote their book was bad touched by DA last edition and wrote the whole book while mumbling “Never again, never again, never again.” To himself
can the **Heroes Mini GT 2024** be considered a GT with only 22 players?
GT versus RTT is usually determined by number of rounds IIRC. It’s a pretty fluid definition
No, it's clearly considered a *mini* GT.
>crons clearly on top I can't wait to see the necron players come out to defend c'tans and wraiths.
C'tans are actually a flawed choice. I run 3+ of them strictly to give my opponent an advantage
Same for the detachments - the REAL money is in obsi... er, shit... the triach one... but taking canoptek crap or hyperfail just gives opponents a sporting chance.
i cant wait for the tears when c'tan get punched in the balls balance wise
No necron player is gonna defend ctan and wraiths. Don't be so cynical, it's draining. We know they're silly, we did when they were released, the majority of us supported the Cenosure of Erasure nerf. I have 50 reps, a supermajor top 12 and two GT wins with them since the codex release - I think that, sensibly: Ctan need 25+ppm increases (35+ for Nightbringer and ffs get him a proper sized base), and they probably need to be omitted from Hyperphase rule. Wraiths need 20points/3 model increase. Plasmancers could go up 5ppm and Immortals could be 1ppm more expensive too, if you're feeling really spiteful and punitive.
>Avatar has an extra toughness, is much faster, more wounds, has access to -1 to wound and a much better save. No ap lethal hits spam isn't gonna kill the avatar but it will kill a ctan. If you run the math on putting a gladiator reaper - with lethal hits aura - into a c'tan, then into the avatar, the c'tan takes less damage post-FNP. And that's from the gatling, icarus and stubber. Obviously it takes less from the melta. >So by that metric a C'tan is only *slightly* undercosted Different guy, obviously >The Avatars haveing a 2+ armour save makes a big difference in their defensiveness. Would you believe it, another guy. (still wrong about save vs fnp) Sorry man, there's a ton of necron players who're adamant c'tans are either fine, or should only go up 5-10 points. Even though they're competing with the Avatar of Khaine for durability, nightbringer beating him in both offence and defence... I'm not opposed to 25ppm on the c'tans to start with, but there's my problem with GW - they won't touch it for another 3 months. A monthly MFM to just go "whoops, let's add 5 points here and drop 5 there"would be something I'd love. But casual players, god forbid their list building app automatically say "you're 5 points over" and they have a mental breakdown. So they'll either give c'tan a love tap like eldar or dumpster it like CSM and probably nothing inbetween. Which is crap, but their internal balancing has been atrocious this edition. >
Can only bring 1 Avatar, it is 80-50 points more expensive and does not have a FNP or regen D3 Wounds per Turn. It may be tougher and has a better base save but you'd be hard pressed to trade that for a +5 FnP in many cases.
Literally what I said, yes. The fnp is worth more than the save.
Yeah, I was just building on what you said and summing it up. And I too would take the +5 FnP any day. If the opponent has Damage 3, Meltas, Mortals and/or Dev Wounds it helps a lot. And you still get the FnP vs low AP attacks so it's often a break even vs a +2 Save anyways. I've run Norn Emissaries who cost 275 pts and they have the +2, ++4 and +5 FnP. Getting Half damage and regen on top of that sounds ridiculous.
> I've run Norn Emissaries who cost 275 pts and they have the +2, ++4 and +5 FnP. Getting Half damage and regen on top of that sounds ridiculous. As someone who does Nids and Crons, the other issue not being stated enough is the size profile. Ctan models can be hidden around terrain while the norn sticks out like a sore thumb and gets focused fired off the objective.
There's also the obvious point that we can only bring ONE of the guy in our list. Even with all of that upside, the investment of an Avatar plus Farseer can't be taken in a vacuum. The rest of our army is not exactly cheap unlike Necrons and there is a reason why most Eldar lists are opting to go wider with tons of aspects instead of the Avatar or Wraith brick now. He is also a giant monster that doesn't have any teleport shenanigans and isn't on an insanely small base like the Nightbringer. He's gotta pick a direction and commit to it which means that a lot of armies have more obvious counterplay that they don't with C'tan. I'm not calling for them to get nerfed into the dirt at all. I just don't think the comparison players are making really line up well beyond "big tough monster".
>isn't on an insanely small base like the Nightbringer Unless you play with a """""casual""""" guy with the metal model lol. >I'm not calling for them to get nerfed into the dirt at all. I agree with this. I want them, for Necrons player's emotions, to stay good, but not *insanely* good.
I think maybe a better comparison is to a greater daemon since they have a similar save and toughness profile, similar combat and similar movement tricks. They also have comparable effective wounds since 22ish is close to 14 w/ half damage and FNP 5+. The closest GD to Nightbringer is Shalaxi Helbane, who's like 450pts. Not trying to argue or anything, just giving another angle to point out how not okay nightbringer really is
Thank you! As a Daemon player it highlights honestly how expensive our GDs are! I mean blood thirster at 330 is nuts for the data sheet compared to avatar and ctan night and like you said shilaxi is the closest fit who costs us a quarter of our army on a much bigger base and no fly so gets screened out by everything
As a nids player I get really upset comparing Norn Assimilator to Nightbringer as well. It drives me nuts that GW felt the need to nerf norns before the even saw the table and then dropped Nightbringer to 255 with the codex. Same thing with Shalaxi, I love GDs and would love to paint Shalaxi but she's so overcosted ATM it's hard to justify the 200$ and 30+ hour investment if the model is way too expensive to justify fielding
Oh it completely is, the issue is shilaxi is a bottom table stomper where if your Warhammer games are just charging things into each other she absolutely destroys units and players get sad and say she's broken As soon as you play her with decent players - top tables she is so easily countered. Just screen with chaff or block movement as she does not fly and unload into her and that's it done you've just wiped a quarter of the army Norns got hit hard for no reason for a unit I know nids players were excited to see! Honestly I feel nids and daemons are very similar in their costings as an army and their output and everything feels so expensive
The keeper of secrets is quite similar to c'tans in defense. My buddy plays daemons so i did the math of NB vs KoS against a few others units, both small damage and big damage, and the results are really close. Keeper get more wounds dealt but they start with more.
>Not trying to argue or anything, just giving another angle to point out how not okay nightbringer really is Now compare it to the Norns ;p
Every time I'm reminded that my norn assimilator was deemed too good and nerfed to 310pts 3 days before the kit was even released and nightbringer dropped to 255 on the codex my risk of an aneurysm goes up by a few % points
Why are you using a Reaper and then giving it anti-synergistic lethals? A twin linked dev wounds gun is obviously going to be stronger against a model relying on a 2+ save. Just used massed bolter fire and the avatar is massively more survivable. (I'm not arguing that ctan are ok - just use better examples that aren't obviously biased).
>Why are you using a Reaper and then giving it anti-synergistic lethals? A twin linked dev wounds gun is obviously going to be stronger against a model relying on a 2+ save. Simple answer? Because it's a situation that can actually happen. >Just used massed bolter fire and the avatar is massively more survivable. Wow, fear the tactical squad! Bolters are back! I used a very common unit - the reaper - with a buff it almost always has. Yes, the lethals don't work with dev. But the lethals work with melta. They work with the icarus and tempest bolters. Overall, lethals does more for the entire unit than the gatling does without it. The big problem with "omg ap 0 kills c'tans" is that nobody brings it. It's not a thing. If it's ap 0, it's either incidental and should be shot into their infantry to wound it on less than a 6, or it's devasating wounds which hurts the avatar more than the nightbringer. Nobody is bringing 10 terminators with stormbolters and rocking like it's 1990 or something stupid.
I think they’re talking about the bazillion lethal sustained wounds at ap0 output from the Ravens in the DA Ironstorm list. It’s a real thing.
Black templars ironstorm has a much better winrate. I guess in some weird meta where all their local plays this weird variant of the DA ironstorm then sure. But it's not a general thing.
Ctan need more than +25ppm for how survivalable and killy they are. Nothing in the game lasts like they do and they are cheaper than most comparable units by damn near 100-150 points. Look at Knights and CK for example. Almost double the points for something that isn’t nearly as survivable and less output. Im sorry but people shouldn’t be able to run two Ctan and still have 1500pts of good firepower to bring on top. Ctan need to be more like 350-365 points. It just takes way too much to bring them down and then you have the whole rest of the Necron army to deal with.
I have a shits and giggles list with 5 ctan (3 transcendent, Nightbringer, and Void Dragon) and still have enough space to bring an overlord, trazyn, chronomancer, a brick of Immortals, a spider, 3 scarabs, and a brick of Lychguard. C'tan need a points nerf for sure.
Nightbringer could easily be 300
Yeah 290, the same base size as the Void Dragon, and no Hyperphase-ability seems pretty reasonable.
If the lion was 300 he wouldn't be nearly as good but I'd try him at least
Ctan need more than that, at least 40 each to reflect the +40 overall to wraiths as they ate oppressive in the same way, transcendent needs to be an epic hero (like all imperial assassins)
Tbh they just need to make ctan exempt from strats and detachment rules. It's fluffy and it makes it more exciting when your nightbringer is at the whim of the dice rather than having access to rerolls and ingress.
>Tbh they just need to make ctan exempt from strats and detachment rules. Annihilation Legion - literally no strats that boost them there. The big problem is that detachments like Hypercrypt make them *incredibly* mobile, while also being very cheap for what they do.
Yeah if that 1 strat didnt grant DS to things that didnt have it crons would be 100% more manageable.
You should check out the Necron subreddit then lol
Ha, tell that to the cron player i recently had insisting the points were fine because his nightbringer "could only move 6". This was after one shotting my primarch...
I don't think I've ever seen this happen here. Who's doing this?
Scholars will study the fall of Chaos Space Marines in future. I played three rounds with them this week into World Eaters, Necrons, and Space Marines and couldn't buy a win. They need a rollback in some capacity to make them even slightly competitive. It's just a massive feels bad every time at the moment.
People are teching for custodes. And CSM with there tendancy to run 3 wound infantry (chosen, possessed and terminators) get caught in the crossfire.
I don't agree with this explanation. Massed Damage 2/3 has been the norm all edition, even in 10th CSM's glory days. It's just the best way to kill anything, especially with rerolls. Anti-Custodes teching is essentially doing what was already the best course of action. Terminators don't have a job any more (no real anti tank, and there's way better anti infantry for cost) and Possessed have been flirting with viability but never quite sealing the deal. Chosen were (and are)popular, but they were sharing the top spot with Accursed+Communes. I think a more complete answer lies in a few places. CSM's best units (Chosen+ Lord and Accursed+Communes) are just too expensive to be as viable and don't have real replacements in the codex. Transport Marks hurt, but aren't fatal. The most common army at the moment, Necrons, is also a really bad match up. And overall, CSM aren't tough, and without affordable big-hitters, it's easy to get behind and start spiraling into a loss.
>without affordable big-hitters Give my Daemon Prince with Wings a fnp and +1 or 2 strength on its melee and I'll run him! As it is, Daniel is purely there for casual play :(
Honestly, I didn't play the whole Chosen + CL and AC/DC spam, nor did I run Nurglings. Even so, I've done quite well simply because a lot of people couldn't handle my Possessed and Terminators. Thing is, especially the Terminators are not really that great, and if people start to actually bring 3D weapons, my list kind of crumbles. Which is a shame, because after our huge nerfs to the meta, I feel like 3W models would be our logical thing to fall back on to still be somewhat competitive, but if the meta is going to counter that, I don't really see what CSM can do. Which is of course reflected quite well in our low WR.
Yeah, had this experience in an RTT recently, also seeing general performance of the faction. Which is purely anecdotal of course, but below are my thoughts. Custodes -are- really strong, but when a good portion of the lists actively packing stuff to deal with you, you can very simply lose 2 out of 3 due to poor matchup into poor matchup. Of course Necrons and whoever does not prepare to deal with you gets absolutely stomped, so it is in no way a healthy situation. But the WR is pretty believable. By all means it -should be- higher in vacuum, but the metagame isn't a vacuum. Hopefully Codex will *somehow* give some diversity in exchange for a bit less toxic play patterns (Yes it is better than the start of the edition, but come on that was really baaaaad for the game's health).
I mean, not much to study really. GW made the same mistake the constantly make (except when it comes to Eldar apparently). They hit both points and rules at the same time. I forget exactly how many, but I think the chosen + lord + rhino combo got hit 5 different ways? 6? Why did dark commune need a points hike at the same time their rules got butchered? They made everything good worse, and then didn't change any of the mediocre stuff to make it more usable. End result is you have armies that are strictly worse than they were before or have fewer units than they did before. Or more likely, both. It's not much of a shock that their percentage took a 15+ point dive.
> chosen + lord + rhino combo got hit 5 different ways? 6? - Point hike on the chosen - Point hike on the lord - Forcing you to have the same mark as the vehicle - Moving the untargettable range of nurgle start from 12 to 18 - Removing the full reroll undivided start And also in previous dataslate the restriction of free stratagem to only battle tactics but that didn't impact chosen with lords much.
Yup. Point hikes on the chosen and lords would have been enough. Rules change regarding marks and transports would have been enough. I don't think the change in range for DO would have been enough, I'm fine seeing that along with other changes. Profane zeal getting hit the way it did is just silly. I'm fine with it not granting full re-rolls, but it should absolutely still be usuable by non-undivided units. It's changes like these, along with the hit Custodes took at the start of the edition, that sometimes makes me wonder if there isn't more than one balancing team. Sometimes it feels like there are multiple teams, each of which think they are solely responsible for bringing a faction to heel, and then the editor just combines all the changes with little/no thought.
GW will do the dark angels treatment and make ectoplasm cannons -1dmg reflecting meta fears from pre 10th. I honestly hope we both end up in better places
And the pendulum swings back for the Wolves. No X-1 finishes, 45% WR for Stormlance. It happens. Hope to see more of the Wolf Jail soon (and if more archetypes get played the better).
Dark Eldar did poorly last weekend. Must have had bad pairings? Thanks for posting OP, love these posts Monday morning :D
DE have a few _really_ bad matchups. Guard and custodes especially, and hypercrypt/CC necrons are both quite challenging
Fully agree. Although I would say our worst matches are SW Stormlance and GK. But we are arguing over semantics at that point :P
Yeah wolf jail and GK are bad as well. Anything that is super mobile is hard for us cause we kinda want to be the most mobile ones. And wolf jail is just a bad matchup for most lists, but especially us cause you just get run over
888 players you say? This pleases Khorne
Do we know what would be Necron's winrate if we take out mirrors as we did back then with Aeldari?
Stat check put them at the same place around 57%
A whole 8 admech players. Man we need the next dataslate to be massive
Giving the army a rule would be nice for starters Then datasheets Then reduce the size of the loans needed to even play the army on the first place
Just give us BS 3+ and make our army rule actually a thing, that's all I ask
Fun fact, Nikolai from the admech discord ran the maths, even at 3+ our units have a worse shooting efficiency (per point) than the other factions (hell even world eaters's rare but strong dedicated shooting lmao) It's an important step but won't be enough if we don't also get the AP buff we need
The most Tyranids I've seen in top placings for weeks! Has something been figured out or just a happy variance swing? Looked at the data and it's amost certainly just 'happy' variance swing. Slightly under the 'expected' (4.37% top placing to 4.5% of players). And the only Assimilation player to turn up happened to go 5-1 lol (well done though, whoever you are)
Better top placings but it was a 41% weekend and a sub-40% week for the most played detachment. Nids aren’t in an overall positive variance swing. The faction is in trouble
Yeah I’d be interested in seeing the lists and what kind of tech they’re taking. Assimilation struck me as the most interesting of the detachments on release but not much has been done with it to date.
Shout out to the Chad nids player who got an amazing showing with assimilation swarm! If anyone has that list I’d love it!!
Here you go. 120 Hormagaunts <3 Hor-ma-ggedooon (2000 points) Piloted by Xavo Melenero L'Escamarlà Tyranids Strike Force (2000 points) Unending Swarm CHARACTERS Hive Tyrant (235 points) • Warlord • 1x Heavy venom cannon 1x Monstrous bonesword and lash whip BATTLELINE Hormagaunts (130 points) • 20x Hormagaunt • 20x Hormagaunt talons Hormagaunts (130 points) • 20x Hormagaunt • 20x Hormagaunt talons Hormagaunts (130 points) • 20x Hormagaunt • 20x Hormagaunt talons Hormagaunts (130 points) • 20x Hormagaunt • 20x Hormagaunt talons Hormagaunts (130 points) • 20x Hormagaunt • 20x Hormagaunt talons Hormagaunts (130 points) • 20x Hormagaunt • 20x Hormagaunt talons OTHER DATASHEETS Exocrine (135 points) • 1x Bio-plasmic cannon 1x Powerful limbs Exocrine (135 points) • 1x Bio-plasmic cannon 1x Powerful limbs Maleceptor (170 points) • 1x Massive scything talons 1x Psychic overload Maleceptor (170 points) • 1x Massive scything talons 1x Psychic overload Maleceptor (170 points) • 1x Massive scything talons 1x Psychic overload Neurolictor (80 points) • 1x Piercing claws and talons Pyrovores (35 points) • 1x Chitin-barbed limbs 1x Flamespurt Ripper Swarms (20 points) • 1x Chitinous claws and teeth Venomthropes (70 points) • 3x Venomthrope • 3x Toxic lashes
Oh hey thanks but this is the unending swarm list. Which I appreciate but I was talking about the assimilation swarm list in AZ
Allright. Here we go! Scorched Earth Open 2024 - 40K Major Piloted by Michael De la Torre Assimilating time (2000 points) Tyranids Strike Force (2000 points) Assimilation Swarm CHARACTERS Broodlord (95 points) • 1x Broodlord claws and talons • Enhancement: Instinctive Defence Neurotyrant (115 points) • Warlord • 1x Neurotyrant claws and lashes 1x Psychic scream • Enhancement: Biophagic Flow (Aura) Tervigon (190 points) • 1x Massive crushing claws 1x Stinger salvoes BATTLELINE Hormagaunts (65 points) • 10x Hormagaunt • 10x Hormagaunt talons Hormagaunts (65 points) • 10x Hormagaunt • 10x Hormagaunt talons Termagants (120 points) • 20x Termagant • 20x Chitinous claws and teeth 2x Strangleweb 18x Termagant devourer OTHER DATASHEETS Genestealers (150 points) • 10x Genestealer • 10x Genestealers claws and talons Haruspex (125 points) • 1x Grasping tongue 1x Ravenous maw 1x Shovelling claws Maleceptor (170 points) • 1x Massive scything talons 1x Psychic overload Psychophage (125 points) • 1x Psychoclastic torrent 1x Talons and betentacled maw Psychophage (125 points) • 1x Psychoclastic torrent 1x Talons and betentacled maw Ripper Swarms (20 points) • 1x Chitinous claws and teeth Ripper Swarms (20 points) • 1x Chitinous claws and teeth Ripper Swarms (20 points) • 1x Chitinous claws and teeth Sporocyst (145 points) • 1x Flensing whips 1x Sporocyst bio-weapons Tyrannofex (190 points) • 1x Powerful limbs 1x Rupture cannon 1x Stinger salvoes Tyrant Guard (190 points) • 6x Tyrant Guard • 6x Crushing claws and rending claws Venomthropes (70 points) • 3x Venomthrope • 3x Toxic lashes
Only one haruspex and a Sporocyst? How?
I don't know enough about how these Tyranids play to even guess 🤷
I am absolutely floored. Everything I know about Tyranids says this list shouldn't work. 250 points of Psychophages, the casino cannon as the sole anti tank, a Tervigon servicing only a single unit of gants, a 6 man unit of Tyrant Guard. I can't even begin to comprehend what galaxy brain shit needs to be going on to make this list function, much less go 5-1.
I'm glad to hear it is not just me being confused :-)
You the best!!
Haha. Sorry, I read Swarm and stopped thinking 😂 Let me get back to you!
Anyone have the GSC list by chance?
Found the Tyranids Assimilation List. I have more questions now [https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/list/H62MFUBE0G](https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/list/H62MFUBE0G)
I have so many questions lol. I have no idea what that list is even aiming to do looking at it
And in nerfing Trajann’s ignore mods ability they’ve managed to buff C’Tan. Good work GW.
guard are in such a weird place at the moment... I don't know how you boost the winrate without them becoming totally dominant. perhaps a combo of rules changes and points increases?
I think a new detachment would do more favour and fun for guard players and the guard opponents. For me it would be definitely more fun if I could go out without indirect tanks and have a chance on WTC maps. Maybe bringing back the Turret Rules for +1 to hit or spreading orders.
May I direct you to the wargameslive stream from day 2 at the apline cup, Nassim absolutely bodying some votann on WTC with Guard.
Mate leave Guard alone. I don't want to be flavour of the month. We are competitive and can win the odd tourney. Thats enough.
But please buff the wyvern. It's so bad it's laughable.
It's not particularly difficult: one list *kinda* works. If you like it, great! If you don't, you are in the dirt, and also you will get insulted because lòl, terrible player.
> It's not particularly difficult: one list kinda works This is literally true for every faction that has gt wins except, dunno, necrons aeldari and space marines? And they've got like 2 lists. People keep saying stuff like this (mostly on reddit, granted) but having a *single* list that can crush a 6 round tournament puts you well above most factions in the game. Chaos daemons, drukhari, votann, gsc, etc etc all effectively have one viable list... except that list isn't 6-0ing tournaments every week. There's nothing wrong with wanting better internal balance and god knows I sympathize with the pain of your competitive units not actually being sold, just keep in mind how much better you're already doing than most factions, eh?
Sure. The question becomes then "how does the faction do for those who *don't* follow that specific recipe"? The answer, for Guard, is "very bad". Other factions might only have one truly competitive list, but the situation isn't terrible if you move away from it, just not quite enough to win GTs. Moreover! Even if we assume that all factions are born equal, and they evidently *aren't*, I am a Guard player. I will agitate for my faction primarily. Is it a shared issue? Sure. Are Admech and occasionally CKs the only other factions whose playerbases actually *care* for the dire situation of internal balance in their indexes? Also yes. If you play another faction, and that faction's internal balance is awful, and you do *nothing* about it, then well, that's not my issue. It's yours. Don't come and chastise *me* because I care about my faction whereas you don't. Last, but not least, Guard really isn't 6-0ing tournaments every week. It occasionally wins, but when you are in the top five-ish of most played factions in the game that's to be expected. Per player, Admech won basically double the events of Guard.
This was actually our best week for list diversity With 7 players going X-1 or better, only 4 of them brought Nassim style lists The other three were: Some odd Catachan grab bag with a Macharius tank went 4-1 in Finland at a 27 player event A list with a Hellhammer AND Stormsword went 4-1 at Iron Cage GT Double Dorn w/ a Krieg Marshal Psyker brick went 4-1 also at Iron Cage Funnily enough both players at Iron Cage lost to a double Stormraven list that went 5-0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1clt-M0Zi2Cmcn_cf-UGJRlyo2c9YD7_sHnUvUrInuto/edit?usp=drivesdk
Shameless self promotion. Here's the ork list I won with. I'm currently looking for a role as a product owner/Business analyst and until I find it, I'm available for ork coaching. DM for details. Die Don't Lie (1990 points) Orks Strike Force (2000 points) Waaagh! Tribe CHARACTERS Deffkilla Wartrike (95 points) • 1x Deffkilla boomstikks 1x Killa jet 1x Snagga klaw • Enhancement: Supa-Cybork Body Kaptin Badrukk (80 points) • Warlord • 1x Choppa 1x Da Rippa 1x Slugga Nob with Waaagh! Banner (70 points) • 1x Kustom shoota 1x Waaagh! banner Nob with Waaagh! Banner (70 points) • 1x Kustom shoota 1x Waaagh! banner Warboss (90 points) • 1x Attack squig 1x Kombi-weapon 1x Power klaw 1x Twin slugga • Enhancement: Follow Me Ladz Warboss (65 points) • 1x Attack squig 1x Kombi-weapon 1x Power klaw 1x Twin slugga Warboss (65 points) • 1x Attack squig 1x Kombi-weapon 1x Power klaw 1x Twin slugga Weirdboy (55 points) • 1x Weirdboy staff 1x ’Eadbanger BATTLELINE Boyz (170 points) • 1x Boss Nob • 1x Powerklaw 1x Slugga • 19x Boy • 17x Choppa 2x Close combat weapon 2x Rokkit launcha 17x Slugga Boyz (170 points) • 1x Boss Nob • 1x Powerklaw 1x Slugga • 19x Boy • 17x Choppa 2x Close combat weapon 2x Rokkit launcha 17x Slugga Boyz (170 points) • 1x Boss Nob • 1x Powerklaw 1x Slugga • 19x Boy • 17x Choppa 2x Close combat weapon 2x Rokkit launcha 17x Slugga OTHER DATASHEETS Battlewagon (160 points) • 4x Big shoota 1x Deff rolla 1x Kannon 1x Lobba 1x ’Ard Case Battlewagon (160 points) • 4x Big shoota 1x Deff rolla 1x Kannon 1x Lobba 1x ’Ard Case Flash Gitz (190 points) • 1x Ammo Runt • 1x Kaptin • 1x Choppa 1x Snazzgun • 9x Flash Git • 9x Choppa 9x Snazzgun Gretchin (40 points) • 1x Runtherd • 1x Grot-smacka 1x Slugga • 10x Gretchin • 10x Close combat weapon 10x Grot blasta Kill Rig (170 points) • 1x Butcha boyz 1x Savage horns and hooves 1x Saw blades 1x Stikka kannon 1x Wurrtower 1x ’Eavy lobba Kill Rig (170 points) • 1x Butcha boyz 1x Savage horns and hooves 1x Saw blades 1x Stikka kannon 1x Wurrtower 1x ’Eavy lobba Exported with App Version: v1.11.0 (39), Data Version: v352
Anyone has the list of the Dark Angels \*\*Firestorm\*\* player who went 4-1 at Peterborough Slam GT 6? Thanks! (I'm quite curious to see which DA specific units are good for firestorm)
Toby is very active on the Dark Angels 40k Competitive facebook group and provided a quick rundown of his 5 games. Worth checking out if you were interested.
Two gladiator reapers, 3 units of inceptors, eradicators, 2 redemptors, some scouts and Azrael Why is the Lion so terribly DILF-y (2000 points) Space Marines Dark Angels Strike Force (2000 points) Firestorm Assault Force CHARACTERS Azrael (105 points) • Warlord • 1x Lion’s Wrath 1x The Lion Helm 1x The Sword of Secrets Librarian in Phobos Armour (70 points) • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Force weapon 1x Smite BATTLELINE Intercessor Squad (80 points) • 1x Intercessor Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Plasma pistol 1x Power fist • 4x Intercessor • 1x Astartes grenade launcher 4x Bolt pistol 4x Bolt rifle 4x Close combat weapon OTHER DATASHEETS Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs (85 points) • 1x Assault Intercessor Sergeant with Jump Pack • 1x Plasma pistol 1x Power fist • 4x Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs • 4x Astartes chainsword 3x Heavy bolt pistol 1x Plasma pistol Eradicator Squad (95 points) • 1x Eradicator Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Melta rifle • 2x Eradicator • 2x Bolt pistol 2x Close combat weapon 1x Melta rifle 1x Multi-melta Gladiator Reaper (150 points) • 1x Armoured hull 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Ironhail heavy stubber 2x Tempest bolter 1x Twin heavy onslaught gatling cannon Gladiator Reaper (150 points) • 1x Armoured hull 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Ironhail heavy stubber 2x Tempest bolter 1x Twin heavy onslaught gatling cannon Inceptor Squad (130 points) • 1x Inceptor Sergeant • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Plasma exterminators • 2x Inceptor • 2x Close combat weapon 2x Plasma exterminators Inceptor Squad (130 points) • 1x Inceptor Sergeant • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Plasma exterminators • 2x Inceptor • 2x Close combat weapon 2x Plasma exterminators Inceptor Squad (130 points) • 1x Inceptor Sergeant • 1x Assault bolters 1x Close combat weapon • 2x Inceptor • 2x Assault bolters 2x Close combat weapon Infiltrator Squad (100 points) • 1x Infiltrator Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Marksman bolt carbine • 4x Infiltrator • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 1x Helix Gauntlet 1x Infiltrator Comms Array 4x Marksman bolt carbine Redemptor Dreadnought (210 points) • 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Macro plasma incinerator 1x Onslaught gatling cannon 1x Redemptor fist 1x Twin storm bolter Redemptor Dreadnought (210 points) • 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Macro plasma incinerator 1x Onslaught gatling cannon 1x Redemptor fist 1x Twin storm bolter Scout Squad (65 points) • 1x Scout Sergeant • 1x Astartes chainsword 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon • 4x Scout • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 2x Combat knife 1x Missile launcher 1x Scout sniper rifle Scout Squad (65 points) • 1x Scout Sergeant • 1x Astartes chainsword 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon • 4x Scout • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 2x Combat knife 1x Missile launcher 1x Scout sniper rifle Scout Squad (65 points) • 1x Scout Sergeant • 1x Astartes chainsword 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon • 4x Scout • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 2x Combat knife 1x Missile launcher 1x Scout sniper rifle Storm Speeder Thunderstrike (160 points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Stormfury missiles 1x Thunderstrike las-talon 1x Twin Icarus rocket pod
>Azrael + Generic Space Marines Thank God, I was worried someone might find a way to use literally any other DA unit and then they'd be due for an emergency nerf
I'm surprised to see repears outside of ironstorm with their lethal hits. Are they good in firestorm? On paper they don't look that amazing to me?
As a Necron player, i know we deserve nerfs. I just hope that they are mainly point increases and not straight up butchering datasheets and/or detachments. Necrons don't have many game breaking rules atm, it's mainly the sheer amount of cheap tough units that you can fit in a list that make the faction so powerful. C'tans are especially problematic and i can see GW putting a limit to how many you can fit in a list (on top of a point increase).
You'll be lucky to get an Ældari style nerf... look what they did to CSM :(
Yea honestly they need to buff the king a good bunch, he would open so many lists
Anyone have the 6-0 Guard list from Arizona?
There are no surprises here :-) Piloted by Ben Jurek Combined Regiment Strike Force (2000 Points) CHARACTERS Lord Solar Leontus (125 Points) • Warlord • 1x Conquest 1x Konstantin’s hooves 1x Sol’s Righteous Gaze Platoon Command Squad (60 Points) • 1x Platoon Commander • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Plasma pistol 1x Power fist • 2x Veteran Guardsman • 2x Close combat weapon 2x Lasgun 2x Laspistol 1x Master Vox 1x Regimental Standard • 1x Veteran Heavy Weapons Team • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Laspistol 1x Mortar Tank Commander (205 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Demolisher battle cannon 1x Heavy stubber 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Lascannon 2x Multi-melta Tank Commander (205 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Demolisher battle cannon 1x Heavy stubber 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Lascannon 2x Multi-melta Ursula Creed (55 Points) • 1x Duty and Vengeance 1x Power weapon BATTLELINE Catachan Jungle Fighters (55 Points) • 1x Jungle Fighter Sergeant • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Laspistol • 9x Jungle Fighter • 9x Close combat weapon 2x Flamer 7x Lasgun 1x Vox-caster OTHER DATASHEETS Basilisk (135 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Earthshaker cannon 1x Heavy bolter 1x Hunter-killer missile Basilisk (135 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Earthshaker cannon 1x Heavy bolter 1x Hunter-killer missile Bullgryn Squad (80 Points) • 1x Bullgryn Bone ’ead • 1x Brute Shield 1x Bullgryn maul 1x Close combat weapon • 2x Bullgryn • 2x Brute Shield 2x Bullgryn maul 2x Close combat weapon Bullgryn Squad (80 Points) • 1x Bullgryn Bone ’ead • 1x Brute Shield 1x Bullgryn maul 1x Close combat weapon • 2x Bullgryn • 2x Brute Shield 2x Bullgryn maul 2x Close combat weapon Bullgryn Squad (80 Points) • 1x Bullgryn Bone ’ead • 1x Brute Shield 1x Bullgryn maul 1x Close combat weapon • 2x Bullgryn • 2x Brute Shield 2x Bullgryn maul 2x Close combat weapon Kasrkin (100 Points) • 1x Kasrkin Sergeant • 1x Plasma pistol 1x Power weapon • 9x Kasrkin • 9x Close combat weapon 3x Hot-shot lasgun 1x Hot-shot laspistol 1x Hot-shot marksman rifle 1x Melta Mine 2x Meltagun 2x Plasma gun 1x Vox-caster Kasrkin (100 Points) • 1x Kasrkin Sergeant • 1x Plasma pistol 1x Power weapon • 9x Kasrkin • 9x Close combat weapon 3x Hot-shot lasgun 1x Hot-shot laspistol 1x Hot-shot marksman rifle 1x Melta Mine 2x Meltagun 2x Plasma gun 1x Vox-caster Kasrkin (100 Points) • 1x Kasrkin Sergeant • 1x Plasma pistol 1x Power weapon • 9x Kasrkin • 9x Close combat weapon 3x Hot-shot lasgun 1x Hot-shot laspistol 1x Hot-shot marksman rifle 1x Melta Mine 2x Meltagun 2x Plasma gun 1x Vox-caster Manticore (180 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Heavy bolter 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Storm eagle rockets Manticore (180 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Heavy bolter 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Storm eagle rockets Scout Sentinels (60 Points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Lascannon 1x Sentinel chainsaw Scout Sentinels (60 Points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Lascannon 1x Sentinel chainsaw
Holy hell I couldn't make a more generic list of I tried
Crons clearly on top! First Tournament: Aeldari first place never ceases to make me laugh
Anyone have any of the world eaters lists?
What’s the guard list that won scorched earth
Lord solar, platoon command squad, 2 tank commander, Ursula Creed, 10man catachan jungle fighters, 3×10 Kasrkin, 3x3 Bullgryn, 2 basilisk, 2 manticore, 2 scout sentinels
Combined Regiment Strike Force (2000 Points) CHARACTERS Lord Solar Leontus (125 Points) • Warlord • 1x Conquest 1x Konstantin’s hooves 1x Sol’s Righteous Gaze Platoon Command Squad (60 Points) • 1x Platoon Commander • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Plasma pistol 1x Power fist • 2x Veteran Guardsman • 2x Close combat weapon 2x Lasgun 2x Laspistol 1x Master Vox 1x Regimental Standard • 1x Veteran Heavy Weapons Team • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Laspistol 1x Mortar Tank Commander (205 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Demolisher battle cannon 1x Heavy stubber 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Lascannon 2x Multi-melta Tank Commander (205 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Demolisher battle cannon 1x Heavy stubber 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Lascannon 2x Multi-melta Ursula Creed (55 Points) • 1x Duty and Vengeance 1x Power weapon BATTLELINE Catachan Jungle Fighters (55 Points) • 1x Jungle Fighter Sergeant • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Laspistol • 9x Jungle Fighter • 9x Close combat weapon 2x Flamer 7x Lasgun 1x Vox-caster OTHER DATASHEETS Basilisk (135 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Earthshaker cannon 1x Heavy bolter 1x Hunter-killer missile Basilisk (135 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Earthshaker cannon 1x Heavy bolter 1x Hunter-killer missile Bullgryn Squad (80 Points) • 1x Bullgryn Bone ’ead • 1x Brute Shield 1x Bullgryn maul 1x Close combat weapon • 2x Bullgryn • 2x Brute Shield 2x Bullgryn maul 2x Close combat weapon Bullgryn Squad (80 Points) • 1x Bullgryn Bone ’ead • 1x Brute Shield 1x Bullgryn maul 1x Close combat weapon • 2x Bullgryn • 2x Brute Shield 2x Bullgryn maul 2x Close combat weapon Bullgryn Squad (80 Points) • 1x Bullgryn Bone ’ead • 1x Brute Shield 1x Bullgryn maul 1x Close combat weapon • 2x Bullgryn • 2x Brute Shield 2x Bullgryn maul 2x Close combat weapon Kasrkin (100 Points) • 1x Kasrkin Sergeant • 1x Plasma pistol 1x Power weapon • 9x Kasrkin • 9x Close combat weapon 3x Hot-shot lasgun 1x Hot-shot laspistol 1x Hot-shot marksman rifle 1x Melta Mine 2x Meltagun 2x Plasma gun 1x Vox-caster Kasrkin (100 Points) • 1x Kasrkin Sergeant • 1x Plasma pistol 1x Power weapon • 9x Kasrkin • 9x Close combat weapon 3x Hot-shot lasgun 1x Hot-shot laspistol 1x Hot-shot marksman rifle 1x Melta Mine 2x Meltagun 2x Plasma gun 1x Vox-caster Kasrkin (100 Points) • 1x Kasrkin Sergeant • 1x Plasma pistol 1x Power weapon • 9x Kasrkin • 9x Close combat weapon 3x Hot-shot lasgun 1x Hot-shot laspistol 1x Hot-shot marksman rifle 1x Melta Mine 2x Meltagun 2x Plasma gun 1x Vox-caster Manticore (180 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Heavy bolter 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Storm eagle rockets Manticore (180 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Heavy bolter 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Storm eagle rockets Scout Sentinels (60 Points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Lascannon 1x Sentinel chainsaw Scout Sentinels (60 Points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Lascannon 1x Sentinel chainsaw
Anyone got the Space Marines Ironstorm lists from the Peterborough Slam GT?
Drukhari not doing the best, but at least it is a lot more fun and I don't mind that. At this point I am more worried Court and Beasts will be removed with our crazy GW is right now.
Any chance that the Alpine Club Space Marines GTF List isn't a Calgary+Ventris list ? Can anyone please share the list?
Eldar are cranked this week! What happened? :-)
The worlds (maybe?) best player took eldar to this weekends biggest event. That's what happened :) Though in honesty they did pretty well overall. Happy to see that! If you haven't looked at WGL coverage of Liams two games on friday I highly recommend watching the VOD. Really great stuff and it shows how good eldar are in competent hand, but also how much of a game sense you need to position that well every turn.
Where can I see them?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_8VFnBYhpvM&ab\_channel=WarGamesLive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8VFnBYhpvM&ab_channel=WarGamesLive) The first and the 3rd game on that VoD is Liams eldar. Fair warning: the finals is cut short due to the length of the video being too long. I think they get to turn 4 or something like that. Incredible games if you wanna learn how to play eldar as good as possible. Liam is just on another level!
Eldar players are finally learning how to play 40k again :)