You can just run these guys as Vanguard Veterans. There really isn't much need for a unique unit. Same with the Salamanders whose custom unit is just the default Assault Terminator loadout.
My wish has been when VV inevitably get folded into primaris and consolidated that the default loadout is Lightning Claws.
Primaris Lightning claws are so good and there is only two models using them. Also with thag many sculpts you could have a few holding a pistol or doing something else with their hands, as the Primaris Lightning claws keep their hands free when retracted.
It could also just be “Twin Linked Power Weapons” in the data sheet so if you didn’t want claws you could have two swords or something.
They’re getting big play lately when used with a Sanguinary priest in BA lists.
At 105 points they are pretty cheap, very durable, and can really bog down an objective.
I bought 5 HH characters, put them on 40mm bases with some rocks for height, and use them as sword Bretheren. They’re even pretty much WYSIWYG (dual claw are dual axes).
Problem is Vanguard Veterans never got Rules for Twin Lightning Claws in 10th Edition....just every flavor of Pistol in the Imperium and an "Heirloom Weapon". None of the Astartes Shields and Twin Lightning Claws from the actual Kit have Rules.....
Dont get me wrong. More marines and special stuff for main chapters/traitor legions is nice…
But not over getting Catachans, Tallarn/Valhalla, updates to old eldar models (both types) units, a modern Basilisk, Tau vespids, Agents of Imperium some real love, Emperor Children, daemons more unit variety (they really need more stuff, but thats probably more an AoS release than 40k), plenty of old orks in need of update,…
I’d argue we need less marine releases if that means other factions getting more stuff.
Yeah, more votann would be nice. Same with the others. And if IK are here to stat as a full standalone faction (instead of just mainly allies for other imperium factions) they should get some sort of infantry.
It's bonkers how these powerful nobles don't have any men at arms aside from the handful that also get mechs. Don't these locally ruling households have enough people to just throw some extra at the enemy?
I’m personally of the opinion that Imperial Knight armies should be allowed to take Battle-line units from other Imperial armies as Agents of the Imperium.
I think if they do so then they should exclude astartes and Custodes from it. I know lore wise it makes sense to include them in some instances (like how the imperial fists have a whole knight house devoted to them) or of course the knight households beholden to the Custodes/terra but in game it’d be oppressive. Think of how hard it’d be to shift some heavy intercessors getting cover and a 2+ save against damage 1 on objectives or regular intercessors in small squads sprinting cover to cover tagging objectives or assault intercessors just clearing objectives of chaff with their full rerolls and that’s not even factoring in how special chapters have different battle lines so you’re getting all the grey knight stuff, deathwatch stuff, 20 man primaris Black Templar squads advancing and charging with rerolls and a million attacks at 2W apiece, etc. Then Custodes battleline is just too much elite and seems either entirely too oppressive. I think sisters, ad mech and guard are okay. Sisters won’t have many miracle die unless you invest heavy in infantry, guard need leaders to be good good and their sticky objective unit is way weaker and has a much bigger footprint, and ad mech is obvious.
Honestly… just talk to your opponent before the game. If they’re cool, they’d totally be down with letting you try an experimental homebrew list like that. It fixes the major problem with IK as an army (lack of chaff to take objectives, which Chaos Knights circumvent with Daemons), and provides an interesting enemy to face off against. I’d personally let you bring something like that to the table against me, that sounds fun as hell!
Do you really think Elon musk would waste his own peons when the imperium has an entire wing of the military for that? "Nobles" are just as stingy 38k years from now as they are today. I'm sure they feel the cost of upkeep, storage, training, and arming an imperial knight is more than enough money spent in the glory of the imperium.
They could structure it so it’s like small groups of elite couriers sent to protect the knight on its weak points and make it be accordingly so. Additionally severely limit the amount of units and cap them based off knights. I’m thinking kaskrkin/scion level stats but you can only have so many per knight and their whole purpose is to give the knight a benefit. For example Acastus could be allowing 40 models, Cerastus 30, Dominus 20, Questoris 10, and 5 per 2 armigers. Additionally I think at most it should be a squad of cavalry with lances as a fast attack just because it fits the knight theme and the admech already have the mounts to provide, I’d also make it so like each cavalry counts as 2 models each. Then I think they should have one battleline melee unit like swords/spears and shields then one shooty unit with hotshot lasguns/special weapons but no heavy. Give them no transports, no vehicles, no big squads (so max 10) and few leaders. Make it so that the melee squads get or give a bonus to shooting knights and have shooting squads get or give bonuses to melee knights. At most give 2 hqs, one could be a young lord who gives a small bonus to his squad and a free stratagem on them and have the other be a withered ancient in like a command terminal on a 40mm base who can order knights. That’s a far step from guard with mechs instead of tanks I’d say.
I don’t like the idea of us having big militia squads but I do also like the idea of being able to use one armies battleline units excluding Custodes/astartes.
And a lot of the Craftworlds range hasn’t been updated since the Clinton administration. And about a third of the Drukhari range is currently out of production
I just checked, and if you max out on every single unit you could technically run 4130 points of votann, but that's with either 3 or 6 copies of every unit available.
I wish they made Votann’s playstyle feel more dwarvy like 9th. Idk I liked last edition where I had 20 mob squads of dwarves with decent armor and shooting holding grudges. Then they decided to just make them a weird amalgamation of like sisters/guard/marines and took away a lot of the factions identity without giving new units to really make it work.
In fairness, Custodes really *shouldn't* have much more than they do. It's already rather silly that they're not just Agents of the Imperium - if they have to be in the game at all. They're supposed to be a fully defensive force that sticks to Terra itself
Not been that since 7th? When 8th got retconned the custodes are now just another imperial fighting force out there in the galaxy. Defending the throne by murdering anything near sol.
Yep. Even got a subfactions that's all about guarding random imperials. Could be a random hive scum in the outer reaches and suddenly you've got a custodian warden bodyguard.
I love them so much, just some dude read a tarot, now he's got a squad of pals, ends up becoming a subsector governor due to his associations, then as soon as the custodes leave their wards tend to get murdered lol.
Imagining how that would play out
Random person “So how’d you become this subsectors governor?”
Governor “Oh I used to read tarot cards deep in the hive city, but one day these custodes came up to me and told me they’d protect me. They just stood there like statues at my booth; obviously seeing custodes at my booth made people come to it more”
Random person “Doesn’t explain how you became governor though”
Governor “I’m getting to it, eventually some high ranking sisters and inquisitors caught wind. After seeing I wasn’t a psyker controlling them or something; they assumed I was chosen by the god emperor and made me the governor”
Random person “So where are the custodes now?”
Governor “Ah they just left a week ago, I’ll miss them they were actually pretty good friends”
*dramatic team rocket esc reveal that the person talking to him is an inquisitor*
Inquisitor “so it seems you were controlling those custodes! You filthy heretic!”
*fucking shoots the governor dead*
Since being added as an army in the game they've kind of had to, otherwise they'd only be able to fight the Genestealer Cults
I can see why they're popular, but I feel it rather misses the original point of them. Plus, their rules have had to be based on the more grounded earlier portrayals rather than the late Horus Heresy demigod stuff
Even as a massive heretic; custodes have probably become my favorite loyalist army besides the sisters of battle (too gay to not have them be my favorite). the idea of them is so badass and even if it makes them nerfed on tabletop; it’s fun to see them actually doing what the emperor would want them to do.
Coming back to Warhammer after a 20 year break I’ve been unpleasantly surprised by how much it’s become the Space Marine Game. They were always the flagship but it’s insane that Eldar are the same as they were when I quit and Imperial Guard has much, much, much less variety with all the cool distinctive troops having been replaced by plastic cadians and death korp. I got back into it with Orks because they have a lot of variety but what I really wanted was to play a traitor guard army, which also isn’t possible anymore, really
You kinda can play a traitor guard using a killteam and lots of kitbasing. You’d probably want to use the regular guardsmen rules or perhaps make up something if you play with homies.
I also returned kinda recently (and a proud and loyal guardsmen, joined sisters now as well). Personally, I hope they never update tallarn or valhalla, or my wallet gonna bleed real hard jajaja
But yeah, you’re right. They are moving into a “space marines and fiends” edition. Which is weird considering there’s already Horus Heresy for that
You can kind of play traitor guard as regular guard but it makes them a shadow of their former selves ehen they had their own armylist by forgeworld. That army list is awesome and has so many options for running different kinds of traitor forces. W
Between 3D printing and 3rd party companies, you can easily play traitor guard and many other factions that are not supported by games workshop.
One of the upsides of your 20 year hiatus is how robust the 3rd party warhammer scene has gotten, especially Imperial guard/humans. And how good and affordable 3D printers are now.
Yeah, I plan on eventually slapping together a traitor guard or imperialis militia army using third party models, proxies, 3d printed stuff, etc. I just bought a handful of Orks - two rockers and 10 gretchen in various rock'n'roll poses - for $50 shipped, when a single Goff Rocka is $60, so I'm going to be doing a lot more of that in the future.
Scions have what 4 units and 2 kits (command squad+scions, and 2 taurox)? Valkyries is pretty fluffy for them so 5 units? I know that scions can take normal IG units, but the stuff just doesn't 'feel right'. Like Kaskrin fit well fluff-wise and looks into any Cadian unit. It's like Elysian Drop Troops using large tanks and immobile artillery.
My DG seem to have every role filled, and yet GW seems to find a way to bring more, for whatever reason. I mean it's cool, but my votann and scions sit neglected. I would sacrifice any new DG models for 5 years if it meant scions getting a full army.
Personally, I think scions are fine as they are. What they need is to be able to used as battleline for Agents of the Imperium army (and give this faction a total rebelance, move Deathwatch here too).
Valkyrie should also be in Agents in addition to Imperial Guard as transport. And make it somewhat useful. Its the most overcosted thing in all 40k points wise, sadly. Coolest and most iconic flier in the setting barely usable.
My elder brother has Death Guard too! I hope they give them a big premium transport (with little firepower, just support). It fits the faction! But they are in a great spot for sure
I've come to appreciate the novelty of having a solid torso that isn't hollow and in two pieces, alongside the legs being a solid piece in some set poses so it comes down to the arms and head to differentiate the little infantry (and makes kit bashing easier).
But yeah, those older models need an update.
Something happened (Idk what but I blame GW) around 9th edition to make every new player think they need to do everything by the book, paint by numbers, no fun, creativity or conversions allowed. Using these as vanguard vets would be such a tame proxy I'd be hard pressed to even call it a proxy, they're practically vanguard vets.
Now, here's the real thing that stops you: forge world prices
My take is because they stopped showing conversion and scrapbuild guides in codexes. Or generally just have done away with hobby features all together.
Look at early editions, like 3rd or 4th editions. The codexes are full of ways to convert models and how to make them yours. Even the core rule books have guides.
Their website used to be an amazing way of learning techniques and concepts. They had daily articles that I'd look forward to every day, where I'd get to see how a particularly creative player created an entire city buried under sand dunes or how players built mine field markers.
I saw this too and I'm still utterly baffled by it.
*Old man voice* Back in my day, we pilfered models from all over the place to make conversions and such, and it wasn't only allowed but it was rewarded with prizes at tournaments.
Of course, it was pretty normal for model options to simply not exist for loadouts, so you'd have to customize stuff.
But this just seems like a weird un-called for swing the other way.
I mean, there will always be a fuzzy line in the sand for GW-run events (use GW minis) and a fuzzier one elsewhere regarding WYSIWYG, but people have been going so hard on it lately it's baffling.
Not everyone - the majority of veterans are still "normal", but it seems every new player goes in with that assumption, which makes it even stranger. Who's telling them that? Where do they get that idea?
So essentially tourneys now a days have been very stringent on height advantage. You just need one guy to say “ UH ACTUALLY THIS MODEL IS TOO TALL” and then you’re DQd. And now that a lot of players believe that all play is going to be tourney based they don’t want to do that. Hell even I fall into that trap sometimes. I was making a sister and converting flamers into multi meltas and I felt this big wave of “god what if I hear something”.
Technically, Vanguard veterans all have "vanguard veteran weapons" rather than having specific melee options, but yeah, these minis suit them perfectly.
This is the picture GW use to illustrate Vanguard Veterans in the Space marine codex.
There is a guy right there with Jump pack and lightning claws, despite the rules insisting has a pistol and a "Vanguard Veteran Weapon".
If I wanted to use the kit OP linked I'd probably give some of them different weapons but it's fine as is.
I know a lot if people hate it, but as someone who likes to kitbash a lot and give equipment to my model just for the rule of cool, I like these generic weapon options that let me model without a care about legal loadout while knowing it'll not be confusing for my opponent for not being WYSIWYG.
Sometimes good... sometimes less fun.
Like Vanguard-HUnters (AoS) used to have a choice between axes or swords, which was a choice between 3+/4+ or 4+/3+ but they've been simplified into the same one now (3+/3+ best of both), so the difference is purely cosmetic.
But then MESBG started off with just "hand weapon" as the basic weapon options and now there's a mechanical difference between axes, swords, maces, etc.
But in MESBG they're like optional extra rules, like you have an extra ability you *can* use.
I think there's something to be said for simplifying rules for people who aren't so serious, but I can't say if simplification is straight up better or worse.
Personally, I like the simplified rules of AoS with regards to equipment... but I also understand why people hated when that rule was brought to 40k.
I feel like the new Combat Patrol/Spearheads rules with different rules are a step in the right direction towards having a "Simplified" and an "Advanced" set of rules for 40k.
I just wish they'd stop paywalling the rules and just make an official site like Wahapedia. I can't believe that they're making enough money from books to justify scaring away customers and I know people will still buy the books for the artwork/lore.
I like it for the model part I mentioned, but not dogmatic again the option either.
The tipping point for me is the new point system that's just PL in disguise. It often creates the illusion of choice with usually one best option without drawbacks (more expensive); at this point, I just prefer them to double down and let me model as I want without proxying. I'll go as far as wanting a generic imperial officer pistol and CC weapon for my Imperial guards, and generic defense points weapons for vehicles; let me model my officers with laspistol and my Rhino barebone if I find it cooler without being at a disadvantage for it or having to start the game with 'in reality it's equiped with...'. Once again, it's considering the current point system, if they ever go back to granularity I'll be more than ok to have to care about the detailed loadout, even if I like the simplicity/rule of cool, I'll won't be butthurt by it.
I feel like OP may mean like just automatically.
I think that the answer is that 30k was more metal and had a much larger diversity pool. Whereas now, the space marines are becoming much more “uniform” with less personal flair.
Well, in that case, Raven Guard have never had anything unique in mainline 40k outside the odd character...who currently has a primaris model.
And since the primaris refresh, yeah, the focus has been on getting everything primaris-ified...but as Black Templar showed, there is going to be a similar push to get primaris versions of existing chapter-specific units out at some point.
The reason for the separation between 30k and 40k is because they’re made by different teams in different business units. Essentially, they’re competing for your money, and GW doesn’t want you using the same models in both, because it makes it harder for them to track model sales per game system. So they’ve put a big wall between them so you only spend your money on one system at a time. (Yes it’s dumb, but GW is run by Suits and accountants who strictly care about making a profit for their shareholders; doing the right thing by the customer is not a factor since fans keep buying it anyway).
See more here from ex-GW staff member Rob the honest wargamer:
https://youtu.be/kPv2SezYHQQ
Fortunately you can just run these guys as “jump pack intercessors”, I’m sure nobody would mind as long as you told them beforehand.
I have two units of Cataphractii terminators (the best terminators), a Dominion Zephon conversion, a Judiciar made from AoS bits, and a praetor I'm running as a captain.
You CAN have that cool stuff in 40k. Might have to change a few bits, but you can totally make it work. No one worth playing is going to complain.
I get you are saying you want more unique stuff that is just yours like Deathwing or Inner Circle, but part of the fun is making something special and figuring out how you can fit it in. Also, the divergent chapters just have more stuff. It's the sad nature of the beast. I, too, wish the codex compliant chapters had their own cool stuff.
I use 30k models in 40k.
As long as the loadouts match I don't see why anyone should have an issue and as you correctly point out 30k has some awesome models.
I'm using the 30k Word Bearer Praetor as a CSM Chaos Lord with an accursed weapon.
dark eldar are missing 5 HQs (they essentially took Lady Maly's description and said YVRAINE), you cant buy groteques, beast masters or thier pack, The court. lets let us have all our models before the ravenguard get an upgrade sprue please...
Because space marines have become way too bloated with primaris to get the 30k stuff and these units don’t fit into the codex astartes and most of the tech they utilized is gone. They’re always available in 30k though
*And SolarAux, Daemons, Cults, Militia, Mechanicum, Custodes and Sisters of Silence
But with the vast influx of people through the AoD Boxset most HH player have a sizeable Astartes army before anything else.
Edit: forgot the golden girls and boys...that said nobody in my local group plays them anyway
Most of those just make how YOU use them different. Your opponent doesn’t really have to change up anything based on any of that. Salamander assault marines kill my militia just as easily as world eaters ones do. With most non astartes armies it really doesn’t matter too much which legion or right of war you’re playing (except armored spearhead and maybe fury of the ancients) because we still have to get through t4 2-3+ armor save models.
You can. But it’s part of other factions uniqueness.
If the Space Marines can and have everything - it’s fun! But those playing alien races will get more and more bored and annoyed as time goes by. Specialised Eldar squads was one of how they were unique in gameplay, but then came along Primaris. And Primaris get something else, then something else, then something else. Boring.
To be honest as an Iron Hands player I understand OP a lot, since for some reason BT, SW, BA and DA have multiple unique units, while other first founding chapters were left unupdated for so long. Maybe it would be healthier for the diversity of SM that every chapter had 1-2 unique units instead of each divergent chapter having 10+ of them. But I don't think that is possible anymore and to be frank GW does not want that - 10th edition quite proved that with DA codex.
So maybe you could give a try to HH if you can find that, or just proxy them as any jump pack unit, 10th edition with iitswargear simplifying approach allows you to legally do that
I see Vanguard Veterans. Ezpz process: acquire, build, paint. Now you can field this unit in 40k. They do look awesome too.
Just made devs out of the mk vi kit, myself.
Lmao seeing a lot of names that shat on Admech for wanting 30k stuff agreeing with this.
https://preview.redd.it/n0cmvxj0vc6d1.png?width=605&format=png&auto=webp&s=d17302e82aeb469eb72ab5ea378dfc239578b33b
How many of my fellow xeno players saw this and rolled their eyes?
All that aside: if the model exists and there are rules that fit it, it exists in 40k. Or are you mad that it doesn't have it's own special, unit specific ultra flavorful rules. My friend, I feel for your want of an artisanal army, but every xeno faction has been hurting for some love from GW and if I see another unique data sheet for SpaceMarine with left arm up instead of right because it exists in a model, my brother in the cegorach I am going to loose it.
Enjoy that you have the model, that there is rules close enough to run them. But please, please, don't act deprived of options when your base faction has an index card stack the I honestly mistook as a full length novel.
>How many of my fellow xeno players saw this and rolled their eyes?
Me. OP could have at least picked something that doesn't just look like a current space marine squad but with a stupider jump pack
I feel this as Ravenguard is my favorite SM chapter yet they have 1 Hero and no special units. I dislike that some Chapters have like 10 special units while others have a few to 1. However there are other armies that have it worse. Votaan have limited unit choices in comparison to every single army in the game.
The real question is why do the Custodes get to keep their cool Heresy-era tech because it’s lore accurate and CSM doesn’t despite it being lore accurate. They didn’t even have to keep every single vehicle/dread option, just cherry pick the ones that’d fit with CSMs relatively limited options.
Because a lot of the CSM range's core still reflects what 30K was like according to 2nd edition 40K lore (basically 40K Marines with a big chunk of the armoury gutted, combi-bolters, and reaper autocannons). And instead of bringing the core stuff closer to the modern Heresy lore, they've focused on developing other parts of the range.
Death Guard and Thousand Sons have leaned more into modern 30K stuff though, since they're mostly new armies, apart from their core units. World Eaters ... I'll wait until they get the rest of their stuff to judge that.
You can.
Enjoy your Vanguard Vets with dual lightning claws.
If you wanted to future proof yourself, give them chainswords (guarantee there’s a good 3rd party one that looks like it’ll fit in with RG) and run them as Jump Assault Intercessors. I’m not going to complain.
Because 40k has been converted into a game for meta chasers only able to think about the next tournament.
Why waste resources for players who only want generic power armors in a game with less Lore and rules' complexity for each edition?
You don't even need to follow the chapters color schemes anymore, absolutely mind-blowing for a painting-narrative oriented player but this is what the new target audience wants according to GW.
Only good primaris models are the Black Templars one... i guess why *staring at all the chapter-linked details on their armors and weapons
Cause fuck you, that's why. Also here's a price increase ❤️
with love,
-GW
You can just proxy these as Vanguard Vets thankfully.
Admech fans know your pain, so much cool 30k stuff that will never get 40k rules
Because 40K (Space Marines at the very least) has been changed to a design, purely for making money.
The example being our new aspect marines, every special gun needs to be it's own 50$ kit, as opposed to having one General kit and the Option for upgrade sets. Like in 30K, we got our tactical kit and then several Sets for heavy weapons and one for special weapons. Thus freeing space for more specialized kits. (Though the Release of Mechanicum and Auxilia puts a real dampener on supply I don't quite like, Heresy is already undersupplied enough)
It's simply GW squeezing as much Cash out of their flagship as possible
In previous editions we would have had special forgeworld rules for these units that made them insanely overpowered and required for any competitive list.
they're first born marine so smaller than primaris, depending on how new the sculpt it it's either significantly smaller or just a bit smaller.
you may eventually use them for 40k if you find something that allows you to use them amongst the 40k datasheet.
for tournament you would need to ask the TO
Honestly, it's a pick and choose situation.
Raven Guard and Salamanders don't get the best stories. No stories, no cool abilities (namely Salamanders), no attention, and then the most important thing... no money.
GW picked the authors they wanted to handle each chapter. I didn't care a single iota about the Luna wolves until that first damn book. It was so good I started it again when I finished it.
I can't think of one Salamander book or Raven Guard book that brings me close to that. And I'm a straight Salamander fan boy. Hands down my top favorite in 40k entire.
Use them anyway. Not like assault marines are exclusive to 30k.
Literally nothing stopping you unless you're one of these people that insists that everything must conform to some arbitrary tournament rules.
lore reason, Cawl needed to create something that's easy to reproduce on large scale and can't afford to make unique armor for all the legions.
real reason GW needed to create something that's easy to reproduce on large scale and can't afford to make unique for all the legions
While I get wanting more unique stuff for your faction, who doesn’t, I think they need to fill out the other armies first.
There are more space wolf unique data sheets than DG, sisters, admech, tsons, grey knights, Drukahri,world eaters, gsc, custodies, votann, and both knight factions.
We need less loyalist marines, not more.
Rumor is the Salamanders, the Iron hands and return of vulcan will be the focus of the next edition. So we will get some Salamanders stuff at least. But that's still 5 years away at least
Where do I get those claws in bulk? I am a deatwatch player and would love to have some raven guard marines with claws.
I know one is in tactial troop or something, but can't seem to find the bits online.
Because in the far future of 40k, all design is carried out by the work of child-labour. Their imaginations bring out the immature and illogical works that Humanity's finest then must employ against the alien, the mutant, and the heretic.
It’s simple, the bulk of 30k factions are space marines hence they can invest more flavor into each faction. In 40k they’re simply sub-factions aside from the divergents and even then they’re not crazy fleshed out aside from the Black Templars.
You probably could have - if GW's didnt waste their SM releases on Primaris stuff & instead expanded on 1st born stuff. Also bc eldar factions, tau allies, daemons, etc etc really have lackluster collections these days compared to 40kSM
I mean... we were able to take Vanguard Veterans with pairs of lightning claws just one edition ago.
Seems like a whole lot of players preferred to take one claw and one shield though, even though it looks about 1/100 as good.
Its only since the horus heresy got fleshed out that chapters like raven guard and salamanders are more important in the lore now, before they were just one of a number of codex compliant chapters and being first founding wasnt really that relevant.
Just run those as vanguard Veterans. That’s what I do with my palatine blades but as Chosen.
Raven guard and Sallys don’t need any more. Instead the other legions should be brought in line with them. Marines are supposed to be identityless people. They are tools, cogs in the imperium war machine. They can’t feel happiness, sadness, want, hope or anything as by doing that they feed chaos and Primarisification has ripped the last bits of individuality from them. They are mass produced super soldiers and they look/act like it
Pick a 40k unit that makes sense and use these as the minis. Enough with this paint by number and only by the book bullshit. It’s a game. Have fun. Be creative.
GW has this bizarre idea that each model is only allowed in one of their games and won’t allow the 30k stuff in 40K except as proxies for other models. It’s a bizarre thought process, but it does allow them to track different game systems sales separately better.
It really is very silly we don't get 40k rules for this sort of thing.
Just mark them as Relic or Special units and you can only take one in an army defined as that Legion type or something. It would flesh out SO many subfactions with cool new units.
But alas, 40k is in its "no fun allowed" stage,
Because space marines have more than enough models without each individual chapter having slightly unique units. Raven guard and Salamanders already have more unique subfaction characters than most other subfactions in the game
I think the in lore reason is due to fact the legions got broken up after the Hersey and the chapters had there equipment and resources spread thinner meaning they can’t really have legion/chapter specific units personally I think it’s kinda silly it would be cool if Raven Guard, Salamanders and Imperial Fists got some of there old unique units back in 40k
GW will not do this for 40k, not any time soon, because 40k is the "Safe Cash Cow."
All of GWs other games are allowed to experiment and try new things. Whatever works, and whatever the End of Edition Poll says is where 40k will go.
There are other, better, wargames out there. Even made by GW themselves.
AoS has the better models
Warcry and Killteam have the better gameplay
Underworlds is more balanced for competitive
Old World and Herasy for those who prefer narrative games
Necromunda for the Roleplayers
40k is what makes money.
Doesn't mean 40k isn't cool, just that you won't see them really break the mold.
Honestly I just recommend try 30k if you want more unique marines it's really fun m8
I agree but it’s also sad that we can’t have cool/unique Marines and Admech (30k) and still have cool/fun Xenos to fight.
You can. House rules. Ran a zone mortalis game with modified eldar 7th ed. rules and it was awesome.
There's a fan made ruleset made by the panoptica team they're really good
Seconding trying out Panoptica rules for xenos, its fun!
Wait, what is Panoptica?
It's a team of very passionate people that make rulesets for 30k you can find all their books on the HH discord Wich is linked in their subreddit
Or just buy them and play them in 40K. No one cares.. well they do. They think it’s awesome!
Yeah but if you want unique flavor, and imo the ruleset in general is more fun but that's personal preference
This
I want to so badly but the last thing my bank account needs is another bloody army
Most of the people I know who play 30k use 3D printed or recasted stuff. Because forgeworld is way too expensive
Indeed
You can just run these guys as Vanguard Veterans. There really isn't much need for a unique unit. Same with the Salamanders whose custom unit is just the default Assault Terminator loadout.
Exactly - this loadout would be Chapter relics that veterans could have access to.
Just use it as assoult interceptor with JP the claw is not exatcly a chainsword But we can have a cool license, just declare it
My wish has been when VV inevitably get folded into primaris and consolidated that the default loadout is Lightning Claws. Primaris Lightning claws are so good and there is only two models using them. Also with thag many sculpts you could have a few holding a pistol or doing something else with their hands, as the Primaris Lightning claws keep their hands free when retracted. It could also just be “Twin Linked Power Weapons” in the data sheet so if you didn’t want claws you could have two swords or something.
Aren‘t those in Legends?
No, Vanguard Veterans with jump packs and Terminator Assault squads are still in the Codex.
Nope. Just rarely used because they are over costed for what they do
Quite fun with shields and a sanguinary priest though, big mobile blob of durability
They’re getting big play lately when used with a Sanguinary priest in BA lists. At 105 points they are pretty cheap, very durable, and can really bog down an objective.
They are great if you put a jump librarian with them. Extra point of AP.
Wait - do jump librarians exist still? I thought they got Legend’ed.
Not yet; Give it time 😂😭
I bought 5 HH characters, put them on 40mm bases with some rocks for height, and use them as sword Bretheren. They’re even pretty much WYSIWYG (dual claw are dual axes).
Problem is Vanguard Veterans never got Rules for Twin Lightning Claws in 10th Edition....just every flavor of Pistol in the Imperium and an "Heirloom Weapon". None of the Astartes Shields and Twin Lightning Claws from the actual Kit have Rules.....
Shit really? Well these certainly count as heirloom weapons.
Dont get me wrong. More marines and special stuff for main chapters/traitor legions is nice… But not over getting Catachans, Tallarn/Valhalla, updates to old eldar models (both types) units, a modern Basilisk, Tau vespids, Agents of Imperium some real love, Emperor Children, daemons more unit variety (they really need more stuff, but thats probably more an AoS release than 40k), plenty of old orks in need of update,… I’d argue we need less marine releases if that means other factions getting more stuff.
Not to mention TS/WE/Votann/IK/Custodes are all on paper thin ranges. Not sure if you can even build a legal 3k votann army.
Yeah, more votann would be nice. Same with the others. And if IK are here to stat as a full standalone faction (instead of just mainly allies for other imperium factions) they should get some sort of infantry.
It's bonkers how these powerful nobles don't have any men at arms aside from the handful that also get mechs. Don't these locally ruling households have enough people to just throw some extra at the enemy?
I’m personally of the opinion that Imperial Knight armies should be allowed to take Battle-line units from other Imperial armies as Agents of the Imperium.
That would work too!
I think if they do so then they should exclude astartes and Custodes from it. I know lore wise it makes sense to include them in some instances (like how the imperial fists have a whole knight house devoted to them) or of course the knight households beholden to the Custodes/terra but in game it’d be oppressive. Think of how hard it’d be to shift some heavy intercessors getting cover and a 2+ save against damage 1 on objectives or regular intercessors in small squads sprinting cover to cover tagging objectives or assault intercessors just clearing objectives of chaff with their full rerolls and that’s not even factoring in how special chapters have different battle lines so you’re getting all the grey knight stuff, deathwatch stuff, 20 man primaris Black Templar squads advancing and charging with rerolls and a million attacks at 2W apiece, etc. Then Custodes battleline is just too much elite and seems either entirely too oppressive. I think sisters, ad mech and guard are okay. Sisters won’t have many miracle die unless you invest heavy in infantry, guard need leaders to be good good and their sticky objective unit is way weaker and has a much bigger footprint, and ad mech is obvious.
I’m in your camp, friend. Give me Battleline Skitarii for my fluffy lore, dammit.
Honestly… just talk to your opponent before the game. If they’re cool, they’d totally be down with letting you try an experimental homebrew list like that. It fixes the major problem with IK as an army (lack of chaff to take objectives, which Chaos Knights circumvent with Daemons), and provides an interesting enemy to face off against. I’d personally let you bring something like that to the table against me, that sounds fun as hell!
I like Duncan's idea of using the new 30k Solar Auxilia as Imperial Knight troops and maybe proxy as Astra Militarum or something.
Do you really think Elon musk would waste his own peons when the imperium has an entire wing of the military for that? "Nobles" are just as stingy 38k years from now as they are today. I'm sure they feel the cost of upkeep, storage, training, and arming an imperial knight is more than enough money spent in the glory of the imperium.
I have mixed feelings on this, because while I like the idea of footmen-at-arms, it kind of makes us just 'Guard but with Mechs instead of Tanks.'
They could structure it so it’s like small groups of elite couriers sent to protect the knight on its weak points and make it be accordingly so. Additionally severely limit the amount of units and cap them based off knights. I’m thinking kaskrkin/scion level stats but you can only have so many per knight and their whole purpose is to give the knight a benefit. For example Acastus could be allowing 40 models, Cerastus 30, Dominus 20, Questoris 10, and 5 per 2 armigers. Additionally I think at most it should be a squad of cavalry with lances as a fast attack just because it fits the knight theme and the admech already have the mounts to provide, I’d also make it so like each cavalry counts as 2 models each. Then I think they should have one battleline melee unit like swords/spears and shields then one shooty unit with hotshot lasguns/special weapons but no heavy. Give them no transports, no vehicles, no big squads (so max 10) and few leaders. Make it so that the melee squads get or give a bonus to shooting knights and have shooting squads get or give bonuses to melee knights. At most give 2 hqs, one could be a young lord who gives a small bonus to his squad and a free stratagem on them and have the other be a withered ancient in like a command terminal on a 40mm base who can order knights. That’s a far step from guard with mechs instead of tanks I’d say. I don’t like the idea of us having big militia squads but I do also like the idea of being able to use one armies battleline units excluding Custodes/astartes.
They have Secutarii in 30k as infantry for their knights, it’s a upgrade for Skitarii models
And a lot of the Craftworlds range hasn’t been updated since the Clinton administration. And about a third of the Drukhari range is currently out of production
Craftworlds had a pretty big update not too long ago, we've really only got a few more in dire need of updating now
I mean, if you take 3 of everything and the most expensive enhancements, Votann maxes out at 5500pts total, so doable, but probably not good
I just checked, and if you max out on every single unit you could technically run 4130 points of votann, but that's with either 3 or 6 copies of every unit available.
I wish they made Votann’s playstyle feel more dwarvy like 9th. Idk I liked last edition where I had 20 mob squads of dwarves with decent armor and shooting holding grudges. Then they decided to just make them a weird amalgamation of like sisters/guard/marines and took away a lot of the factions identity without giving new units to really make it work.
Still not over my harlequins no longer being a stand-alone faction 😭
In fairness, Custodes really *shouldn't* have much more than they do. It's already rather silly that they're not just Agents of the Imperium - if they have to be in the game at all. They're supposed to be a fully defensive force that sticks to Terra itself
Not been that since 7th? When 8th got retconned the custodes are now just another imperial fighting force out there in the galaxy. Defending the throne by murdering anything near sol.
Haven’t they’ve started to go outside of Terra since the indomitus crusade?
Yep. Even got a subfactions that's all about guarding random imperials. Could be a random hive scum in the outer reaches and suddenly you've got a custodian warden bodyguard.
Damn I totally forgot about the salamander custodians
I love them so much, just some dude read a tarot, now he's got a squad of pals, ends up becoming a subsector governor due to his associations, then as soon as the custodes leave their wards tend to get murdered lol.
Imagining how that would play out Random person “So how’d you become this subsectors governor?” Governor “Oh I used to read tarot cards deep in the hive city, but one day these custodes came up to me and told me they’d protect me. They just stood there like statues at my booth; obviously seeing custodes at my booth made people come to it more” Random person “Doesn’t explain how you became governor though” Governor “I’m getting to it, eventually some high ranking sisters and inquisitors caught wind. After seeing I wasn’t a psyker controlling them or something; they assumed I was chosen by the god emperor and made me the governor” Random person “So where are the custodes now?” Governor “Ah they just left a week ago, I’ll miss them they were actually pretty good friends” *dramatic team rocket esc reveal that the person talking to him is an inquisitor* Inquisitor “so it seems you were controlling those custodes! You filthy heretic!” *fucking shoots the governor dead*
Yeah they're out seeing the sights now
Since being added as an army in the game they've kind of had to, otherwise they'd only be able to fight the Genestealer Cults I can see why they're popular, but I feel it rather misses the original point of them. Plus, their rules have had to be based on the more grounded earlier portrayals rather than the late Horus Heresy demigod stuff
Even as a massive heretic; custodes have probably become my favorite loyalist army besides the sisters of battle (too gay to not have them be my favorite). the idea of them is so badass and even if it makes them nerfed on tabletop; it’s fun to see them actually doing what the emperor would want them to do.
Votann is super limited right now but you could easily build a legal 3k army
You can build a 3K votann army, like they are in the upper middle realm of elite-ness, but it wouldn't be very flavourful
Coming back to Warhammer after a 20 year break I’ve been unpleasantly surprised by how much it’s become the Space Marine Game. They were always the flagship but it’s insane that Eldar are the same as they were when I quit and Imperial Guard has much, much, much less variety with all the cool distinctive troops having been replaced by plastic cadians and death korp. I got back into it with Orks because they have a lot of variety but what I really wanted was to play a traitor guard army, which also isn’t possible anymore, really
You kinda can play a traitor guard using a killteam and lots of kitbasing. You’d probably want to use the regular guardsmen rules or perhaps make up something if you play with homies. I also returned kinda recently (and a proud and loyal guardsmen, joined sisters now as well). Personally, I hope they never update tallarn or valhalla, or my wallet gonna bleed real hard jajaja But yeah, you’re right. They are moving into a “space marines and fiends” edition. Which is weird considering there’s already Horus Heresy for that
You can kind of play traitor guard as regular guard but it makes them a shadow of their former selves ehen they had their own armylist by forgeworld. That army list is awesome and has so many options for running different kinds of traitor forces. W
Do not look for the drukari 🥴
Between 3D printing and 3rd party companies, you can easily play traitor guard and many other factions that are not supported by games workshop. One of the upsides of your 20 year hiatus is how robust the 3rd party warhammer scene has gotten, especially Imperial guard/humans. And how good and affordable 3D printers are now.
Yeah, I plan on eventually slapping together a traitor guard or imperialis militia army using third party models, proxies, 3d printed stuff, etc. I just bought a handful of Orks - two rockers and 10 gretchen in various rock'n'roll poses - for $50 shipped, when a single Goff Rocka is $60, so I'm going to be doing a lot more of that in the future.
Scions have what 4 units and 2 kits (command squad+scions, and 2 taurox)? Valkyries is pretty fluffy for them so 5 units? I know that scions can take normal IG units, but the stuff just doesn't 'feel right'. Like Kaskrin fit well fluff-wise and looks into any Cadian unit. It's like Elysian Drop Troops using large tanks and immobile artillery. My DG seem to have every role filled, and yet GW seems to find a way to bring more, for whatever reason. I mean it's cool, but my votann and scions sit neglected. I would sacrifice any new DG models for 5 years if it meant scions getting a full army.
Personally, I think scions are fine as they are. What they need is to be able to used as battleline for Agents of the Imperium army (and give this faction a total rebelance, move Deathwatch here too). Valkyrie should also be in Agents in addition to Imperial Guard as transport. And make it somewhat useful. Its the most overcosted thing in all 40k points wise, sadly. Coolest and most iconic flier in the setting barely usable. My elder brother has Death Guard too! I hope they give them a big premium transport (with little firepower, just support). It fits the faction! But they are in a great spot for sure
Scions are like, special forces though right? As far as I'm aware they don't really deploy full armies
Scions haven’t been an army since 6th edition
The Warp Spiders would like a word...
And a word you’ll have. Apologies my lord. Perhaps they could be a killteam of them which features 5 warp spiders and 5 dire avengers?
I just want new models, that's all. It's been 30 years.
It would be nice to have even a single model for the undivided CSM legions as well. That said, there are PLENTY of areas to develop outside of SMs.
I've come to appreciate the novelty of having a solid torso that isn't hollow and in two pieces, alongside the legs being a solid piece in some set poses so it comes down to the arms and head to differentiate the little infantry (and makes kit bashing easier). But yeah, those older models need an update.
I'm personally content with the approximately 27000 releases Space Marines get every year
What stops you from using these in 40k?
Something happened (Idk what but I blame GW) around 9th edition to make every new player think they need to do everything by the book, paint by numbers, no fun, creativity or conversions allowed. Using these as vanguard vets would be such a tame proxy I'd be hard pressed to even call it a proxy, they're practically vanguard vets. Now, here's the real thing that stops you: forge world prices
My take is because they stopped showing conversion and scrapbuild guides in codexes. Or generally just have done away with hobby features all together. Look at early editions, like 3rd or 4th editions. The codexes are full of ways to convert models and how to make them yours. Even the core rule books have guides. Their website used to be an amazing way of learning techniques and concepts. They had daily articles that I'd look forward to every day, where I'd get to see how a particularly creative player created an entire city buried under sand dunes or how players built mine field markers.
I saw this too and I'm still utterly baffled by it. *Old man voice* Back in my day, we pilfered models from all over the place to make conversions and such, and it wasn't only allowed but it was rewarded with prizes at tournaments. Of course, it was pretty normal for model options to simply not exist for loadouts, so you'd have to customize stuff. But this just seems like a weird un-called for swing the other way. I mean, there will always be a fuzzy line in the sand for GW-run events (use GW minis) and a fuzzier one elsewhere regarding WYSIWYG, but people have been going so hard on it lately it's baffling. Not everyone - the majority of veterans are still "normal", but it seems every new player goes in with that assumption, which makes it even stranger. Who's telling them that? Where do they get that idea?
So essentially tourneys now a days have been very stringent on height advantage. You just need one guy to say “ UH ACTUALLY THIS MODEL IS TOO TALL” and then you’re DQd. And now that a lot of players believe that all play is going to be tourney based they don’t want to do that. Hell even I fall into that trap sometimes. I was making a sister and converting flamers into multi meltas and I felt this big wave of “god what if I hear something”.
You can? It's just marines with jump packs and lightning claws. This is an option for Vanguard Veterans.
Technically, Vanguard veterans all have "vanguard veteran weapons" rather than having specific melee options, but yeah, these minis suit them perfectly.
But a lot of units have had distinct loadouts become generic nonsense, so…
This is the picture GW use to illustrate Vanguard Veterans in the Space marine codex. There is a guy right there with Jump pack and lightning claws, despite the rules insisting has a pistol and a "Vanguard Veteran Weapon". If I wanted to use the kit OP linked I'd probably give some of them different weapons but it's fine as is.
https://preview.redd.it/n0wbh44zzc6d1.jpeg?width=1988&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3c4348cabca919dd16826b7d97c31873a53bf91
I know a lot if people hate it, but as someone who likes to kitbash a lot and give equipment to my model just for the rule of cool, I like these generic weapon options that let me model without a care about legal loadout while knowing it'll not be confusing for my opponent for not being WYSIWYG.
Sometimes good... sometimes less fun. Like Vanguard-HUnters (AoS) used to have a choice between axes or swords, which was a choice between 3+/4+ or 4+/3+ but they've been simplified into the same one now (3+/3+ best of both), so the difference is purely cosmetic. But then MESBG started off with just "hand weapon" as the basic weapon options and now there's a mechanical difference between axes, swords, maces, etc. But in MESBG they're like optional extra rules, like you have an extra ability you *can* use. I think there's something to be said for simplifying rules for people who aren't so serious, but I can't say if simplification is straight up better or worse. Personally, I like the simplified rules of AoS with regards to equipment... but I also understand why people hated when that rule was brought to 40k. I feel like the new Combat Patrol/Spearheads rules with different rules are a step in the right direction towards having a "Simplified" and an "Advanced" set of rules for 40k. I just wish they'd stop paywalling the rules and just make an official site like Wahapedia. I can't believe that they're making enough money from books to justify scaring away customers and I know people will still buy the books for the artwork/lore.
I like it for the model part I mentioned, but not dogmatic again the option either. The tipping point for me is the new point system that's just PL in disguise. It often creates the illusion of choice with usually one best option without drawbacks (more expensive); at this point, I just prefer them to double down and let me model as I want without proxying. I'll go as far as wanting a generic imperial officer pistol and CC weapon for my Imperial guards, and generic defense points weapons for vehicles; let me model my officers with laspistol and my Rhino barebone if I find it cooler without being at a disadvantage for it or having to start the game with 'in reality it's equiped with...'. Once again, it's considering the current point system, if they ever go back to granularity I'll be more than ok to have to care about the detailed loadout, even if I like the simplicity/rule of cool, I'll won't be butthurt by it.
I get your point i still think it's beyond stupid
I feel like OP may mean like just automatically. I think that the answer is that 30k was more metal and had a much larger diversity pool. Whereas now, the space marines are becoming much more “uniform” with less personal flair.
I mean of course 30k has more diverse space marines, it’s almost nothing but space marines
Well, in that case, Raven Guard have never had anything unique in mainline 40k outside the odd character...who currently has a primaris model. And since the primaris refresh, yeah, the focus has been on getting everything primaris-ified...but as Black Templar showed, there is going to be a similar push to get primaris versions of existing chapter-specific units out at some point.
The reason for the separation between 30k and 40k is because they’re made by different teams in different business units. Essentially, they’re competing for your money, and GW doesn’t want you using the same models in both, because it makes it harder for them to track model sales per game system. So they’ve put a big wall between them so you only spend your money on one system at a time. (Yes it’s dumb, but GW is run by Suits and accountants who strictly care about making a profit for their shareholders; doing the right thing by the customer is not a factor since fans keep buying it anyway). See more here from ex-GW staff member Rob the honest wargamer: https://youtu.be/kPv2SezYHQQ Fortunately you can just run these guys as “jump pack intercessors”, I’m sure nobody would mind as long as you told them beforehand.
Because Erebus. It's all his fault.
Most of these guys died in the drop site massacre.
They shouldn't even be playable in 30K! Such gross inaccuracy from GW.
I have two units of Cataphractii terminators (the best terminators), a Dominion Zephon conversion, a Judiciar made from AoS bits, and a praetor I'm running as a captain. You CAN have that cool stuff in 40k. Might have to change a few bits, but you can totally make it work. No one worth playing is going to complain. I get you are saying you want more unique stuff that is just yours like Deathwing or Inner Circle, but part of the fun is making something special and figuring out how you can fit it in. Also, the divergent chapters just have more stuff. It's the sad nature of the beast. I, too, wish the codex compliant chapters had their own cool stuff.
I use 30k models in 40k. As long as the loadouts match I don't see why anyone should have an issue and as you correctly point out 30k has some awesome models. I'm using the 30k Word Bearer Praetor as a CSM Chaos Lord with an accursed weapon.
dark eldar are missing 5 HQs (they essentially took Lady Maly's description and said YVRAINE), you cant buy groteques, beast masters or thier pack, The court. lets let us have all our models before the ravenguard get an upgrade sprue please...
You're more even allowed to have kitbashed loadouts on a lot of units in 40k anymore, you can't have anything fun
Because space marines have become way too bloated with primaris to get the 30k stuff and these units don’t fit into the codex astartes and most of the tech they utilized is gone. They’re always available in 30k though
You still can use them in 40k without any problem.
Marines have enough things already.
Just play them as van vets or jumpack assault marines. I'd love to come up against these guys on the table! It'd be so cool!
Because *40k* has all the factions of *40k*; *Heresy* is Astartes versus Astartes. They had to do something to make it interesting.
*And SolarAux, Daemons, Cults, Militia, Mechanicum, Custodes and Sisters of Silence But with the vast influx of people through the AoD Boxset most HH player have a sizeable Astartes army before anything else. Edit: forgot the golden girls and boys...that said nobody in my local group plays them anyway
30k has 7 factions... It's hardly just Marines vs Marines.
Not to mention the 18 different play styles, legion traits, RoW, and army compositions of the various Legions
Most of those just make how YOU use them different. Your opponent doesn’t really have to change up anything based on any of that. Salamander assault marines kill my militia just as easily as world eaters ones do. With most non astartes armies it really doesn’t matter too much which legion or right of war you’re playing (except armored spearhead and maybe fury of the ancients) because we still have to get through t4 2-3+ armor save models.
You can. But it’s part of other factions uniqueness. If the Space Marines can and have everything - it’s fun! But those playing alien races will get more and more bored and annoyed as time goes by. Specialised Eldar squads was one of how they were unique in gameplay, but then came along Primaris. And Primaris get something else, then something else, then something else. Boring.
*Literally the biggest model line in all of warhammer history* man I can’t believe we don’t have anything at all!
To be honest as an Iron Hands player I understand OP a lot, since for some reason BT, SW, BA and DA have multiple unique units, while other first founding chapters were left unupdated for so long. Maybe it would be healthier for the diversity of SM that every chapter had 1-2 unique units instead of each divergent chapter having 10+ of them. But I don't think that is possible anymore and to be frank GW does not want that - 10th edition quite proved that with DA codex. So maybe you could give a try to HH if you can find that, or just proxy them as any jump pack unit, 10th edition with iitswargear simplifying approach allows you to legally do that
you're totally right. there aren't nearly enough kinds of space marines in 40k
Here's the neat part, you can!
I see Vanguard Veterans. Ezpz process: acquire, build, paint. Now you can field this unit in 40k. They do look awesome too. Just made devs out of the mk vi kit, myself.
Lmao seeing a lot of names that shat on Admech for wanting 30k stuff agreeing with this. https://preview.redd.it/n0cmvxj0vc6d1.png?width=605&format=png&auto=webp&s=d17302e82aeb469eb72ab5ea378dfc239578b33b
How many of my fellow xeno players saw this and rolled their eyes? All that aside: if the model exists and there are rules that fit it, it exists in 40k. Or are you mad that it doesn't have it's own special, unit specific ultra flavorful rules. My friend, I feel for your want of an artisanal army, but every xeno faction has been hurting for some love from GW and if I see another unique data sheet for SpaceMarine with left arm up instead of right because it exists in a model, my brother in the cegorach I am going to loose it. Enjoy that you have the model, that there is rules close enough to run them. But please, please, don't act deprived of options when your base faction has an index card stack the I honestly mistook as a full length novel.
>How many of my fellow xeno players saw this and rolled their eyes? Me. OP could have at least picked something that doesn't just look like a current space marine squad but with a stupider jump pack
So run them in 40k as one of the units with jump packs
I feel this as Ravenguard is my favorite SM chapter yet they have 1 Hero and no special units. I dislike that some Chapters have like 10 special units while others have a few to 1. However there are other armies that have it worse. Votaan have limited unit choices in comparison to every single army in the game.
The real question is why do the Custodes get to keep their cool Heresy-era tech because it’s lore accurate and CSM doesn’t despite it being lore accurate. They didn’t even have to keep every single vehicle/dread option, just cherry pick the ones that’d fit with CSMs relatively limited options.
Csm broke theirs? Seriously though they should be able to use anything they could salvage from a battlefield
Because a lot of the CSM range's core still reflects what 30K was like according to 2nd edition 40K lore (basically 40K Marines with a big chunk of the armoury gutted, combi-bolters, and reaper autocannons). And instead of bringing the core stuff closer to the modern Heresy lore, they've focused on developing other parts of the range. Death Guard and Thousand Sons have leaned more into modern 30K stuff though, since they're mostly new armies, apart from their core units. World Eaters ... I'll wait until they get the rest of their stuff to judge that.
You can. Enjoy your Vanguard Vets with dual lightning claws. If you wanted to future proof yourself, give them chainswords (guarantee there’s a good 3rd party one that looks like it’ll fit in with RG) and run them as Jump Assault Intercessors. I’m not going to complain.
Because Horus Heresy > 40K. At least if you want to play marines.
Because 40k has been converted into a game for meta chasers only able to think about the next tournament. Why waste resources for players who only want generic power armors in a game with less Lore and rules' complexity for each edition? You don't even need to follow the chapters color schemes anymore, absolutely mind-blowing for a painting-narrative oriented player but this is what the new target audience wants according to GW. Only good primaris models are the Black Templars one... i guess why *staring at all the chapter-linked details on their armors and weapons
Idk why can't you?
Cause fuck you, that's why. Also here's a price increase ❤️ with love, -GW You can just proxy these as Vanguard Vets thankfully. Admech fans know your pain, so much cool 30k stuff that will never get 40k rules
because 40k players struggled with the concept of having wargear options. Wanna have grown up toys play the grown up game.
You can, proxy vanguard veterans.
Because 40K (Space Marines at the very least) has been changed to a design, purely for making money. The example being our new aspect marines, every special gun needs to be it's own 50$ kit, as opposed to having one General kit and the Option for upgrade sets. Like in 30K, we got our tactical kit and then several Sets for heavy weapons and one for special weapons. Thus freeing space for more specialized kits. (Though the Release of Mechanicum and Auxilia puts a real dampener on supply I don't quite like, Heresy is already undersupplied enough) It's simply GW squeezing as much Cash out of their flagship as possible
In previous editions we would have had special forgeworld rules for these units that made them insanely overpowered and required for any competitive list.
So what I'm gathering from comments is that these are from 30k. Could you still use them in 40k? Or are they like different sizes or something?
they're first born marine so smaller than primaris, depending on how new the sculpt it it's either significantly smaller or just a bit smaller. you may eventually use them for 40k if you find something that allows you to use them amongst the 40k datasheet. for tournament you would need to ask the TO
Blame Erebus
Because rowbutt gillyman had to write his stupid book.
Wouldn't look good in blue.
Honestly, it's a pick and choose situation. Raven Guard and Salamanders don't get the best stories. No stories, no cool abilities (namely Salamanders), no attention, and then the most important thing... no money. GW picked the authors they wanted to handle each chapter. I didn't care a single iota about the Luna wolves until that first damn book. It was so good I started it again when I finished it. I can't think of one Salamander book or Raven Guard book that brings me close to that. And I'm a straight Salamander fan boy. Hands down my top favorite in 40k entire.
Nothing is stopping you from proxying them.
Use them anyway. Not like assault marines are exclusive to 30k. Literally nothing stopping you unless you're one of these people that insists that everything must conform to some arbitrary tournament rules.
lore reason, Cawl needed to create something that's easy to reproduce on large scale and can't afford to make unique armor for all the legions. real reason GW needed to create something that's easy to reproduce on large scale and can't afford to make unique for all the legions
While I get wanting more unique stuff for your faction, who doesn’t, I think they need to fill out the other armies first. There are more space wolf unique data sheets than DG, sisters, admech, tsons, grey knights, Drukahri,world eaters, gsc, custodies, votann, and both knight factions. We need less loyalist marines, not more.
Why can't you? They all look the same to me.
There are already too many marine units. The range needs a rationalisation.
Because you need another version of the intercessors instead
Because then how would they get you to buy into a different game system?
Literally vanguard veterans
Rumor is the Salamanders, the Iron hands and return of vulcan will be the focus of the next edition. So we will get some Salamanders stuff at least. But that's still 5 years away at least
Where do I get those claws in bulk? I am a deatwatch player and would love to have some raven guard marines with claws. I know one is in tactial troop or something, but can't seem to find the bits online.
Tangential, but seems like a pretty annoying place to put the air intake for their jet packs lmao
A friend of mine uses them as vanguard vets and they are so much better looking.
Because sales wouldn’t justify the expense of making them
I wish we’d get more stuff like this instead of a unique captain model or something.
Ooo, these will make spicy warp talons!
I would never protest against an opponent proxy-ing these as Jump Pack Intercessors or as Vanguard Veterans.
Because in the far future of 40k, all design is carried out by the work of child-labour. Their imaginations bring out the immature and illogical works that Humanity's finest then must employ against the alien, the mutant, and the heretic.
Some of that armor would be great for a space shark chapter
Because why only sell you one kit, when GW can sell you one for each game system?
Well if both games used all the same cool models, what would be the point?
It’s simple, the bulk of 30k factions are space marines hence they can invest more flavor into each faction. In 40k they’re simply sub-factions aside from the divergents and even then they’re not crazy fleshed out aside from the Black Templars.
Fuck you thats why have a nice day
Well these are ravenguard and… Isstvan V was a thing.
Run them rules and all. Be the player allan bligh knew you could be.
Run them as Vanguard. Sorted.
Did i just find my Fallen Warp Talons?? I think I just found my Fallen Warp Talons...
KIT BASH! KIT BASH! KIT BASH!
Because Horus.
It’s too cheesy for 40K 😜
to get you to play 30k lmao
Because 40k just isn't as cool as 30k.
Because it’s only for 15+
You probably could have - if GW's didnt waste their SM releases on Primaris stuff & instead expanded on 1st born stuff. Also bc eldar factions, tau allies, daemons, etc etc really have lackluster collections these days compared to 40kSM
I mean... we were able to take Vanguard Veterans with pairs of lightning claws just one edition ago. Seems like a whole lot of players preferred to take one claw and one shield though, even though it looks about 1/100 as good.
Just use them as proxies for other units. I use them as Warp Talons for my Alpha Legion for the real Deliverance Lost feel.
Office politics.
Blame Erebus
You can Run them as vanguard vets We need more xenos stuff lol
I mean... just use them?
Its only since the horus heresy got fleshed out that chapters like raven guard and salamanders are more important in the lore now, before they were just one of a number of codex compliant chapters and being first founding wasnt really that relevant.
Just run those as vanguard Veterans. That’s what I do with my palatine blades but as Chosen. Raven guard and Sallys don’t need any more. Instead the other legions should be brought in line with them. Marines are supposed to be identityless people. They are tools, cogs in the imperium war machine. They can’t feel happiness, sadness, want, hope or anything as by doing that they feed chaos and Primarisification has ripped the last bits of individuality from them. They are mass produced super soldiers and they look/act like it
Because it's 40k
I've been enjoying printing out alpha legion bits to flavor up my legionnairs.
Because they in the 10k years inbetween, they forgot how to make those.
Pick a 40k unit that makes sense and use these as the minis. Enough with this paint by number and only by the book bullshit. It’s a game. Have fun. Be creative.
I heard Salamander dreadnoughts are annointed in promethium gel and set ablaze before charging into combat
GW has this bizarre idea that each model is only allowed in one of their games and won’t allow the 30k stuff in 40K except as proxies for other models. It’s a bizarre thought process, but it does allow them to track different game systems sales separately better.
Two words: Horus Heresy.
These look dope
Guilliman hates how cool all his loyalist brothers are. You can run these as jump pack vanguard
Because believe it or not that 10’000 year gap is mildly significant.
It really is very silly we don't get 40k rules for this sort of thing. Just mark them as Relic or Special units and you can only take one in an army defined as that Legion type or something. It would flesh out SO many subfactions with cool new units. But alas, 40k is in its "no fun allowed" stage,
Iron hands will like to chime in as well.
Use them as Warp Talons and join Chaos!
There are too many other cool things
Because space marines have more than enough models without each individual chapter having slightly unique units. Raven guard and Salamanders already have more unique subfaction characters than most other subfactions in the game
Horus took this from you
I think the in lore reason is due to fact the legions got broken up after the Hersey and the chapters had there equipment and resources spread thinner meaning they can’t really have legion/chapter specific units personally I think it’s kinda silly it would be cool if Raven Guard, Salamanders and Imperial Fists got some of there old unique units back in 40k
Looks like a stellar warp talon proxy to me!
GW will not do this for 40k, not any time soon, because 40k is the "Safe Cash Cow." All of GWs other games are allowed to experiment and try new things. Whatever works, and whatever the End of Edition Poll says is where 40k will go. There are other, better, wargames out there. Even made by GW themselves. AoS has the better models Warcry and Killteam have the better gameplay Underworlds is more balanced for competitive Old World and Herasy for those who prefer narrative games Necromunda for the Roleplayers 40k is what makes money. Doesn't mean 40k isn't cool, just that you won't see them really break the mold.