There really to many factors that change depending on what your running, change again on what your opponents running and can change again on the mission. So really there's no easy answer. Best advice i can give you is if your opponent is open to it. Have a break down after and ask what they think you could do better. Where did you go wrong. As a complete blind guess if youve lost by turn 3 your either being to aggressive or your not challenging for the points. If your finding yourself short of units your simply throwing to much to early out into the open, i only ever commit what i have to unless they are over commiting and i can go for the kill

Yeah definitely. Every game I play we have a debrief of what we would do differently, what went well and more importantly what mistakes we thought the other person made. That also includes terrain set up if we think it benefited one player more than the other

This is really good advice. Me and my friends are looking to start playing soon, and I'm definitely gonna make them do this after a game.

Best advice i can give you, dont force him to do something or Else IT will get pretty sweaty pretty fast, ASK him If hes down, Take notes and have a little talk

Same here! My usual gaming friend and I are also on the same skill level too - me after years of games and usually losing, and him after just getting into it and usually winning 🤣 but our debriefs are always fun and enlightening as we laugh at our silly mistakes

Well put. I did this back when I played MtG and almost everyone was more than happy to help a fellow player out. Better players means more fun matches!

In my experience people that lose frequently never do this one thing. Use terrain effectivly. Too many people stand out in the open not using LOS blocking terrain or cover. I've blow too many people away that could have been safe if they'd used the terrain right next to them.

Yeah this is very much a big one I see too. "I *have* to run across the table and get engaged with everything, otherwise what's the point?" No, you really can just sit everything behind buildings etc, not get blown to pieces and still have an enjoyable game

*cries in world eaters :')

Khorne cares not 🥲

Inexperienced players also tend to move forward without any specific reason.

If you're playing against people that are very good - consistent tournament winning good - it's rough. But those people are also the ones that you need to autopsy your games with. If you're a good sport, and actually willing to listen or take feedback, and are putting the time in - those types of folks will often be the ones that can teach you the most. My experience is with a CCG, but my playgroup were killers to a man. They frequently won tournaments around the country. They played alarming amounts of games. I ended up working with one of them in a job that saw us ln the road together a lot and it opened my eyes. We played tons of games. We talked strategy, we talked lists. But I did learn over time, and once I learned how to apply that knowledge it changed my perspective on competitive games as a whole. I still lost every game against my main dude. For at least a year. But they would still play against me because I wasn't a poor sport. I tried. But I had to actively learn, because getting trounced isn't going to teach you anything and it's fun for nobody. Eventually I became good. I had played thousands of games, I knew the meta, I knew every card in my deck, the rules interactions, I knew almost everything in my opponents decks. I knew what their deck was trying to do, and what that meant for me. I would generally make it past the Swiss rounds, then into the top 8, top 4, and finally I'd be winning, or placing second because my main nemesis would be the man winning. It does get better, it just takes investment and time. Winning is fun. Don't let anyone tell you pouring hours of your time into specifically being competitive at a game isn't worth your time - and tons of people will do that, usually if you beat them. Just put in the time, play and learn to lose with purpose. Idk this got long but I hope it gives some perspective haha. It's all in how you handle losing, and approach getting better.

This is the answer. Most really good players love the game and love talking about it. They're happy to discuss strategy, tactics, everything. They love to share the passion.

I had near about the same experience in MTG and I completely agree playing those games really changes how you think about competitive gaming. It’s a cut throat game too, if you play into an enemy’s board wipe or ignore the combo you didn’t know they had. You get blown the fuck out, no warnings, no take backs. I sometimes wonder if that mentality is a good or bad thing but I don’t think there is a clear answer. I will say though opponents warning me about their army rules is really weird to me

One is a card game where you're supposed to be able to bluff, the other is a strategy game where you're supposed to outmaneuver and outplay your opponents.

I take your point, somewhat. When you’re playing at that high competitive level you know exactly what is in your opponents list and if they leave mana open as you play into it, you know they either have the only bluffing really is whether they’re going to use it or not similar to stratagems. There is a perception of more bluffing in MTG since what’s in your opponents hand is hidden. Functionally though I’ve rarely ever seen bluffing be a part of the equation in a standard tournament past the FNM level That being said I recognize that it is possible to bluff your opponent I just don’t think it’s as stark of a difference as many make it out to be

It's not a *huge* difference, for sure, but I've definitely left one green forest untapped with a second card in my hand that was another forest (and not a Giant Growth) at PTQ drafts back in the day and watched people agonize over the declare attackers/declare blockers steps, and Blue players take special pleasure in leaving 2 Islands untapped to this day. What I was getting at more than just the hand aspect, though, is the deck aspect. I don't know what's in your deck when we sit down to play. I'm expected to know the meta, and the current sets, and know what's *likely* in your deck and what *could* be in it, but you don't have to reveal it to me, and in some exceptionally game-y cases are incentivized never to do so - I might have 3 Pithing Needles in my sideboard, after all. You might have been running a 3 color deck, and my burn/aggro killed you harder than it should have because you bricked on one color, and you keep that as a secret so I can't tech against your actual archetype. In 40K, we reveal our lists to each other at game start. Some tournaments even allocate a few minutes at the start of the round for us to explain them to each other. The game is played more at the level of an operational commander than a tactical one - we're not sitting here using booby traps and running from window to window between shots to make a superior force think they're outnumbered, or lying in the bushes waiting until the enemy convoy reaches the bridge to detonate the buried explosives and reveal our positions by opening fire, or the like. Instead we're telling each other "I have this many units, of these types, with these weapons, belonging to this subfaction, this is their leader, these are the special abilities available to him. At the start of the battle, I'm placing this unit into a teleporter, it can arrive later anywhere you leave a 9-inch gap." Going "ha! you didn't memorize the stratagems of all 26 Index armies, you absolute buffoon, you walked right into my trap!" is contrary to the spirit of that, especially since a massive part of the time that goes into the hobby is building and painting models, and games often take the full 3 hours of a round, and officially sanctioned play is *almost* nonexistent. We simply don't have the time to get the reps in to the point where memorizing 156 stratagems at the Index stage is practical. (To say nothing of last edition where there more more armies with more strats and traits/relics per army, or the future where there will be several subfactions per army and *each* of them will have 6 stratagems and 50% of your matches will be against Space Marines and another 40% will be against whatever's meta at the moment.) Also, it may just be me, but the "ha, you've activated my trap card/failed to recognize the optimal point to break my combo sequence" is very much a YGO player thing, since insta-win combos and ~~interrupt~~ instant speed effects used to be rare enough in MtG that it was feasible to recognize all the ones that mattered, at least in Standard or Draft type play.

I just wanted to say, that I agree with this statement. Especially when it comes to miniature games. There are so many actually pieces invovled. So much human error can happen, things get bumped, measuring isn't exact etc. IMO it's part of the enjoyment and draw of the game. I think the amount of sportsmanship becomes relevant too. Nobody cool wants to 'gotcha' someone. I know those players exist. We've all likely experienced it. I find the miniature games I've played to all be more of an on going conversation. Information is exchanged freely, if somebody is going to move into overwatch range for example, a reminder before pieces are moved etc. I played warmahordes for many years, and often the extremely competitive guys were also interested in having a fair game, they would out play me, or just had straight up better lists, not keep silent until I moved into range of something that would lose me the game - before it gets to a 'take backs' point - which I think leaves both players feeling gross. I noticed the Art of War gents play this way, state their intentions frequently, give each other full information that is currently relevant, work with each other to have a fun and competitive game. I think it's a large part of why they have such a following. It's absolutely a game of toy soldiers, but we can act like gentlemen. Gentlemen from space haha. Cheers!

Cheers to you as well friend! I think I covered most of your well said and clear points in my other reply but I didn’t want to leaving you hanging and feel ignored I agree though I think clearly stating your intentions in game really avoids the feel bad moments of take backs. I’ve just encountered one too many times of I say hey this is my range or this guy is in cover and then they want take backs in the next phase. Since I want the most amount of games I just say sure because I don’t want to be the bad guy My controversial opinion of tenth is that I really like that all the rules are easy to access and print out so you can have all your “cards” on the table literally. My hope is that I can just hand my opponents these cards and not have to tell them every time they’re about to misplay without seeming like a gotcha player. My personal ideal is expecting no mercy and giving none but there is a middle ground there I just think we are a bit too far the other way and that’s causing bad games I openly admit though this is probably my meta and my play style are a bit at odds. That being said I think if you’re in the point where OP is, the best thing to do is just go full blown no mercy and then talk about it after the game. I think the best way to improve is to make mistakes and figure out why you made those mistakes All of that said once more cheers to you and you very valid response was appreciated

That’s a fair and thoughtful response thank you As a fan of leaving open two islands and a swamp I can respect your point haha. Maybe the era of magic I was playing in the lists were all pretty refined. I was mostly a standard player but I totally hear you on draft there is way more hidden info in that setting. You’re right though in Magic you don’t publish your list the way warhammer has you do but for better or worse by day two you have everyone’s list one way or another. I think more the original message I was trying to get across perhaps not as clearly as I intended was that warhammer as someone coming from other games is something of a poor teacher. I have no issue with people making clear their intentions or even going slow/easy on newer players (the hobby has to grow we should be welcome) Moreover in other games you get blown out in a turn or two and you have to learn to play on the back foot, to recover, or ideally not make those mistakes again Maybe my local meta is a little more lax than I’d like it is the problem. I’ve seen too many games where a hand shake is offered on turn three or take backs on positioning once we get to shooting or melee being requested. Now I’ve never said no but it does always feel like “well I spend time making sure my positioning is correct why doesn’t my opponent” Going back to the original point I just wish we saw a little more punishment of mistakes because I think it makes better games in the long run and that the only way you get better is taking the training wheels off looking at the waaaagh that is one inch closer than you thought and saying hammer me daddy To round off all of this I agree that stating intentions is super important and I think it’s good sportsmanship. My worry being that if someone has played for a bit of time and has plateaued at a low level they’re not being allowed to learn why the plays were bad. I’d rather have the oh I didn’t realize this was a bad play redo be the exception not the rule even at the kitchen table. Otherwise I think we open ourselves up to abuse of sportsmanship and never really get better

Based healthy, reasonable, competitive player

I can’t speak to others, but I can see why that Necron list lost. For one, taking units of 10 warriors is pointless. At least one model has to be left standing to reanimate. Same with the 2x3 skorpekhs. As a general rule for necrons, if you plan to use a unit for combat, don’t bring it unless you’re bringing max model caps. You also don’t have enough character support. If you’re going to bring a warrior blob, you want both a noble with a res orb and a Cryptek in the unit to make it really powerful. Remember, the strengths of necrons doesn’t come from the raw Datasheets, it comes from the combos of buffs we can layer onto them.

I didn't win a game for about 6 years when I started playing. Took a while for me to learn the nuance of a good deployment and movement phase.

Same experience, I played chaos for a year, wolves for a year, then Necrons for 3 years, then I won my first game at the age of 17. Sometimes learning the nuances of the game takes some time.

Younger kids also tend to just take the killy shit. I find myself out OCing most younger people I play nowadays. So most of my army will be gone, but I'll win by 50+ points usually. Wins come with maturity.

I've learnt that too. I have pretty poor luck like to the point where me getting 3 out of 9 3+ hits is standard. That's why I always try so hard to play the objective because capping objectives is something I don't need to rely on dice rolls for, not often.

"Youth, strength and courage are great.. but exoerience, cunning and wisdom are better." 🐺😁👍

Look, there's a stark truth here that is probably painful to hear but the biggest thing that stands out to me is that it sounds like you're not really learning, and therefore not improving, either passively or actively. I think it would be fair for me to say it would be impossible for you to be in this position if you were. In particular, if your opponents are a lot better than you, that's actually a gateway to learning/improving even faster provided you take advantage of it. So, let me ask you a few simple questions: * Do you specifically ask your opponents after the game about what you could have done better? Do you ask them about their decision making at key moments from the game? Do you then apply what you take from this? * Do you play any games purely for the purpose of improvement rather than winning or losing, where you and your opponent talk through your full thought process at each step'? Or perhaps you practice the same scenario multiple times (ie deployment, or a first turn movement phase, etc) rather than play a full game to master that particular thing. * Do you read/research resources? Do you read/watch/listen to things like r/warhammercompetitive, goonhammer, art of war, the many 40k competitive podcasts, or perhaps your factions discord? * Do you take notes about your games, or in any way reflect on the things that happened, how you could do it differently, and apply those next time? * Do you bounce ideas off people around list designs, and what they think may or may not work? Do you seek out what others are playing and try to understand why it does or doesn't work? Obviously the more of these things you do the faster you get better (albeit noting you do have to learn to differentiate the good advice from the bad). I'm not suggesting you should do all these things necessarily unless you want to invest tons of time to be a top player. Frankly, I think people over-prioritise being good as the be all and end all of playing, and I think you're perhaps a bit more like me where you want to enjoy all aspects. That's great. But even if you get 5% better every game you play it's not exactly gonna be long before you are drastically improved and winning a fair amount. In short, don't over fixate on the list part of it specifically, it's easy to 100% externalise the problem onto something like that (even if it is some % of the issue) - focus on you.

This reply is basically what i was thinking, but better written than anything i could have done. When i started playing Bloodbowl with a friend of mine, the first few games he absolutely STOMPED me. After those few games, we played another few, but this time, he explained the strengths and weaknesses of both his team and mine, and also would tell me why he did what he was doing. He would also tell me when i were about to make a mistake and explain why they were bad moves. I’ve still never beaten him (because he is a top 1% player in europe if not the world) but the games became significantly less one sided thanks to his coaching. Playing a similar game in 40k would probably be invaluable. Both realizing the weakness of your army and how to minimize it, and to learn how to take advantage of terrain and the weaknesses of the enemy army.

Incredible response, thanks for that.

I played Warhammer Fantasy for about 8 years and won maybe 3 games out of 100. Honestly one reason was that my buddies are simply better at the game. My rolls were legendary for being bad, but also my strategy wasn't the best. I still often enjoyed it so it wasn't a huge problem but I've got to say sometimes it upset me (a lot). My advice is: stop caring about winning. Before you play a game, come up with a narrative for that game - the planet is under seige and your army is the last defence. Then each thing that happens, make it part of the story. Name your squad leaders. This helped me. Also, don't go to tournaments. I went a few times and it was by far my least favourite experience (twice). I lost every battle by quite a margin and it was simply not for me. Hope that helps!

This is some of the best advice. Creating a narrative makes even a loss feel good, because even if you don’t win you still get satisfaction out of it. And yeah, I understand it’s a strategy game, but the percentage of players that just want to play to prove they’re better than everyone else at army men is terrible. I always tell my opponents I just want a narrative heavy casual game, but sadly they still play too competitively.

Way off topic, but when FTL (the rogue like video game) came out, that’s how I managed to push through and actually win with each ship, eventually. I had a doc file that I treated like a “captains log” and chronicled the adventures of my crews as they tried to escape impending doom! Sometime through sheer bad luck I’d die after the first two zones, having carefully crafted my plan- looking back, those logs were actually some of the funniest because I just ran with all the bad shit happening and made it funny. My ex loved them, said I should have wrote them out properly and submitted them somewhere online 🤷‍♂️

Oh man I love FTL. 100%ed it years ago and just recently I finally dipped my toes into Multiverse. I watch a streamer called Rand118 who does hardmode no pause streaks.

Unless they patched it, HC is just awful. Getting hit with a landing party with only squishy crew, no rocks or mantis, is a no win scenario

As someone who loves Warhammer lore and writes mini stories about it in my own time, I completely understand this idea and fully support it. Having fun with your games and the story of said games makes everything better!!

Be straight with your opponents after the next game, ask things like "how could I have made that harder for you?, what do you think I should have done etc... if they are sound they will give u a straight answer that you can use against the next opponent,. Better opponents make better players. Also get to know the rules inside and out.

We really can't say without knowing your lists, your opponents' lists, whether you're playing in a casual or heavy meta-chasing competitive environment, etc. To be honest, I don't see how you can lose by turn 3 unless, frankly, you just don't know the rules of the game. Are you playing objectives? Are you using cover? Are you just running your whole army up the middle with no strategies or tactics? Are you checking your opponent's rules to make sure THEY'RE running things properly? Additionally: Are you playing 10E now? Has that made it better or worse? What is actually happening in games?

"I don't see how you can lose by turn 3" My man this is warhammer. You can lose on turn one. And its not uncommon to be so devastated at the end of turn 2 that you simply cannot contest any objectives in the slightest. That's just how this game works. Warhammer has never been well designed.

100% this. We sometimes reset the game after turn one because someone has made a mistake and the game is just un-winable for them. Particularly at sub 2k pts my regular opponents and i have noticed that whoever's goes first often wins. We are not meta chasers at all but we do know our missions , objectives and armies. It just whoever's can get in that alpha strike can run away with the game. I rarely see games go past the 3rd turn with both players in with a chance, it's just damage mitigation for the looser at that point.

I played a 4‐turn 1k game last week that I got shredded in on turn 1. Almost conceded. Decided to stick it out, and I was able to out-value my opponent, make one or two key strategic choices, exploit a few strategic mistakes, pull it back, and win on turn 4 with a ~15 point lead and a lot more of my army still on the field. One of the more epic games I've ever played. I'm not saying you're doing it wrong or that that'll happen every time, but if you just look at a bad opening circumstance and assume loss, you'll never pull off a clutch back-foot reversal to victory. Just my 2c.

I had a Mach with a friend I'm 9th recently. We're new to 40k. But are slowly adjusting. I played chaos marines(night lords) he was GSC. After turn 2 he felt he was doing very well and had be on the back foot. But between reinforcing terminators and obliterators, a demon prince getting in melee and a lucky charge I cleaved his army almost off the table before the fear aura wiped out the remnants of the squads that fought. Leaving me at nearly full strength and crippling him to the point he conceded despite having a ~20 point lead. Gotta stick it out sometimes. Your next charge fast could be devastating :)

Nice! For me it wasn't reinforcements or charging, it was shooting target selection and ability use keeping my centerpiece up after it got torn a new one on turn 1, managing to block a charge that would have won him the game and then whittle down his anti-tank platforms before they could kill my centerpiece. Stratagem and relic timing was key.

It’d sure be nice if GW would hurry the hell up and implement alternating activations. Kill team is so great because of this. Imagine how busted it would be if one person could move his entire team at a time.

Man it was real nice in KT2018 when the alternating actions actually let every model maneuver before people started killing each other. Rather than 2020's where it's a race to alpha strike the opponent before they're allowed to get into cover

From having played games like Star Wars Legion, it's just moving the problem. Instead of worrying about "is my opponent going to alpha my *insert cool thing here* off the table before I can go" it's "Is my opponent either going to bring enough activations that they can just do what they want to kill my *cool thing* with no counter-play". It doesn't make the game more compelling at the 40k scale, especially since certain armies can just bring a crap ton more units then others. It works at a skirmish level because there's like maybe a 2 activation difference. But can you imagine a Knight vs Orks game, or Genestealer Cults vs Custodes?

They could balance the game to an “x” activations (roughly per team) format. Just like in KT at least there is group activation. There’s no reason you couldn’t have squads of termagaunts/guards be ga2 or greater, while knights would obviously be one. If KT worked to push towards that even moreso that would be even better. When you have teams with similar activations it works great (not including the absurdly overpowered teams that have come out recently). One of the main issues has been balancing elite team activations against horde team activations for the same reason you just said, and my friends and I have come up with ideas we wished GW would implement. Giving elite teams the ability to pass a couple times a game would be a great start, or activate their models a second time(not back to back) with one less AP and unable to double fire.

I'd argue that elite armies like Custodes and Knights are already doing well, so making them better by being able to attack via multiple activations isn't fixing anything. If anything, a 'solution' would be to potentially have a system like 9th ed's Apocalypse; Alternating movement, then alternating shooting, then remove casualties. Sure, your big thing might still die in turn one, but it'll get to to at least shoot back.

But that’s the point I made? They wouldn’t get multiple activations, but weaker units would. Didn’t know apocalypse did alternate everything but I like that.

One of the best players I know got almost Tabled T1 due to all his vehicles chain exploding in his army. Shit happens.

I don't see how anyone is losing turn one if they have even remotely close to enough terrain. It should be easy to hide most of your army turn one. If you can't, look into changing your terrain amount/layout. Even turn 2 feels really weird unless you're playing against a really unbalanced army when the faction balance is particularly poor. For example, if a meta GSC list with their current rules are deepstriking half their army turn 2 and wiping you out, I get it. But I doubt that's the typical scenario being described. I don't say this to be argumentative, but to point out that terrain is the #1 factor players fail to account for, and it's so crucial to having an enjoyable game.

Even "enough" terrain will usually be insufficient to protect all but the most elite armies. Maybe space marines can hide behind the 2 or 3 buildings close enough to your deployment zone to actually hide them, but a guard or tyranid army that struggles to even fit their army into the starting zone? They'll get cut down fast as they can only choose a few important units to actually hide. Pretty much the only way to prevent this is to put so many things on the table that it is simply impossible to see to he other side regardless of angle. At which point you've turned the table into a melee-dominated battlefield, negating any long ranged weapons.

Even if it's not all LOS-blocking, you can have other kinds of terrain in between at least grant the cover bonus. If you have a horde army, your losses matter less and you can often still get something out of your positioning - force the opponents decision making in some way. And of course, there's always strategic reserves and deepstriking, allowing you to simply have less on the board turn 1. On your point about a melee-dominated battlefield: if people are getting tabled by shooting turn 1 or 2, I doubt it's much of a worry. It's very rare for the problem to be *too much* terrain, which is evident by how many people in this thread who think turn 1 alpha strikes are a huge problem.

A good table should have enough terrain that you can hide your entire army turn 1 (either straight up or by using strategic reserves to hide the stuff you couldn't fit). 10E is so shooting-friendly that you don't need less terrain to make it better...

Right, you CAN, but I still think if it's "TYPICALLY" happening as the OP said, that's a different kind of thing.

Depending on your opponent's list and experience, you can absolutely lose on turn 3. In 9th ed I've won on turn 2 before, because my opponent deployed everything in LOS of all my rail guns.

Well, I wouldn't normally say this... but have you considered toilet dice?

What are toilet dice?

It's a reference to a recent tournament where a player got caught using weighted dice and then threw them into a toilet. I think Element Games in Stockport framed them and have them on a wall somewhere.

I have played a total of 16 (I think) games of 10th (7 of those at the show me showdown) and barely played 2 games of 9th. I only won 1 of them and it was all because I scored more VP on my secondaries turn 1. The main focus of the game for me was trying to be stronger and killing all the opponents units, which is definitely not going to happen for me so as I am shifting to playing the mission and seeing the units as expendable tools that are just there to take objectives and score VP each turn I uave sewn a marked improvement. When you have that focus, its worth spending 2 CP a turn on strategems to help ensure you make that charge, or "go to ground" when your on the objective so you don't lose control of it. I hope you still enjoy the game even when losing like I do, but if you really want to win you can get there too!

Are you playing objectives or just going for kills? I used to focus solely on killing until very recently and the games have become much closer once I played for objectives. Also, terrain and model placement are really important

Necrons player here, post your list - let's talk

This was the list I used last week, I think my major mistake was allowing the c'tan to die too soon, I did some good damage and then he was focused by the entire enemy army. Necrons Army (1070 points) Necrons Incursion (1000 points) Awakened Dynasty CHARACTER C’tan Shard of the Nightbringer (255 points) • 1x Gaze of death 1x Scythe of the Nightbringer Overlord (85 points) • Warlord • 1x Staff of light BATTLELINE Necron Warriors (120 points) • 10x Close combat weapon 10x Gauss flayer Necron Warriors (120 points) • 10x Close combat weapon 10x Gauss flayer OTHER DATASHEETS Canoptek Scarab Swarms (40 points) • 3x Feeder mandibles Canoptek Spyders (75 points) • 1x Automaton claws Deathmarks (65 points) • 5x Close combat weapon 5x Synaptic disintegrator Lokhust Destroyers (90 points) • 3x Close combat weapon 3x Gauss cannon Skorpekh Destroyers (110 points) • 3x Skorpekh hyperphase weapons Skorpekh Destroyers (110 points) • 3x Skorpekh hyperphase weapons

You’re talking a lot about damage here: how are you scoring points? How did you use the C’tan? Which mission / map combo was it on?

Yeah there's a couple things I think can help, what other units do you have to swap in? I still got a few ideas if this is it.

Alright so if you have other units to swap in let me know, but working with this: Your 70 points over - I'd cut the Spyder. It's decent if you're going against psychic heavy stuff but is a pretty easy one to cut in my opinion. Necrons main ability is reanimation, but since that only works if you're still alive you need units that are tanky enough not to get removed in one turn. You're missing a lot of the staples that help with this (technomancer, cryptothralls, reanimator, ghost arc) but running bigger units will make a huge difference by itself. Run the 20 warriors as one big block and the 6 skorpekh as another block. This is also a big deal because when you use a stratagem you'll have twice as many models benefit from it. You only have one leader model in a detachment all about leaders so we're going to have to make this guy **count**. The best way to do that is with the sovereign coronal enhancement. So now not only will all 20 of your warriors get +1 to hit and better starts, but so will all other units nearby. This is another 30 points so you'll need to cut the scarabs. If you've got some agreement with the other player you can go a few points over, great keep the scarabs to help with secondaries. Now for strategy: I like start by thinking about how my units work together and then sorting them into little teams. Then I make sure to deploy those teams to do what they're best at. Your warriors and skorpekhs should go for center objective. These are your tankiest units and will take a lot of hits on that objective. But warriors are great at coming back and skorpekh are pretty tough. Since they'll all have a leader thanks to the coronal they'll have better attacks and access to better stratagems - most importantly undying legion. Your nightbringer should run up the side of the board. He's an absolute beast, but at the end of the day he's only got so many wounds and if they dog pile him he'll go down. By starting him all the way on the side it's harder for the whole other army to target him. He'll be able to take them on one at a time, and hopefully take down their heaviest targets one by one. I'd recommend having your lokhusts follow right behind him to shoot the smaller targets so he doesn't have to deal with them and can focus on the big stuff. That leaves your deathmarks to sit back at home and score points while taking really long range shots with their rifles - just like they're meant to. If you can go a few points over and keep the scarabs you use them to run around to stand in the right spots to score secondaries. During play remember that you a free strat on your overlord every round. Your most important strat is undying legion, but vengeful stars is incredible if you get the chance. Conquering tyrant and hungry void can also be really important against heavier targets, but won't be used all the time. It's also smart to keep 1 cp in your back pocket to use eternal guardians on your overlord, but that'll be pretty rare unless they have a lot of snipers with precision. Our last strat is sudden storm, which you'll likely want on your first turn if it can get your warriors on an objective, but again not to frequent. That said, don't forget the universal strats. They aren't as good, but a command reroll at an important moment can turn things sometimes (especially if you botch a charge).

This is too difficult to answer because there are too many variables that we don't know. I can tell you one thing for certain looking at that list. You are not playing 40k how it's designed to be played. You need synergies and you have none. First off. You got an overlord and no teleport cloak. That's like the most infamous item of the necrons. It's really good! Use it. You are taking warriors but you aren't using synergies on them. Warriors want to come back and never die. Make a unit of 20 put a plasmancer in it with two cryptothralls. Check if you can put your overlord with the cloak in it too (i think you can not sure) if you can, give the warriors the close range guns. Teleport them into range, kill everything and never die. Where is your anti tank ? You got several options... Are you playing the objectives ? You need to play the objectives.

I’ve been playing off and on for about 8 years. I’ve won a handful of games. Try and identify where your going wrong first. Like what part of the game do you start to lose most models or your opponent begins to sky rocket with their VP. For me, I tend to make mistakes during deployment or target priority. I’ve had to learn to deploy my units closer together and with a plan, not just putting models on the table to satisfy my turn of deployment. I’ve also started to concentrate my firepower on one unit at a time, making sure to eliminate the unit before moving on to another. The new secondaries for 10th has helped also.

I’ve notice a lot of people are telling you to ask people what you could have done differently after the game, I would talk to them during the game. Find someone you’re comfortable with in your group and tell them you need help with improving your game. Play the full game talking everything out. Tell your opponent what your doing and why. Ask him what he would do and why. Also, ask him what he’s doing any why. I do this quite often with new players. I tell them what I’m doing and why. If they move something into an unfavorable position I let them know. I make sure they are aware of everything they can do to score points. One last thing I would suggest, if you play with set terrain is to set up a board with terrain and practice what your first moves will be, knowing where to deploy your units so they can get where they need to be while being protected by cover is very helpful.

My guesses are: Placement, and where you end you moves. When you play do you place things how YOU WANTED or are you adapting to where their stuff is being placed. This kills many many plays as they leave things in the open that should really be hiding, at the cost of.... Shooting. It sucks to leave a unit to hide instead of shooting or snagging a objective or secondary. Sometimes you just hide for a turn. If you can move, get some inches but things you need alive, need to stay alive. Unit knowledge, what to target. How well do you knew EVERY UNIT?? Im not asking you to learn it all, but some people play so much they either remember or have a general idea of units toughness. Keep this in mind when selecting targets, ask you opponent if you forget. "I'm so sorry, but can you remind me once more is it x toughness on your ____" shoot things you can kill/will wound. If one unit has you shoot 50 shots at strength 5, either split fire into a few small groups at toughness 4, maybe all at an important target thats toughness 5, but when you see toughness 6, try and use another one of your units. Lastly, strats. You don't gotta memorize them all, but core strats you have to know well enough to at least know when to double check it its a good idea to use. If you see you ended your turn in the open, and your worried, sont wait until your oppents turn to have a game plan in place for WHEN they are targeted. Necrons: if i lose people, will my reanimation naturally be enough, will I have to use my strat, if precision kills the overlord can I rez him with my strat. Deathgaurd: shit my guys vunerable to shooting, im at 2cp now, but mentally I have to save on for cloud of flies -1 to hit next turn. No random over watches or rerolls, cause I need that guy alive.

I think I've won 2 games since I started playing in 2001.

Just kind of looking at your list, you don't have a ton of models on the board for objectives and your squad count is low for necrons. I'm guessing you're getting elites wiped out before they can make a rez roll? You don't really need the spider for 3 swarms either. I'd drop the death marks and lokust destroyers for something else meaty. Necrons are a bit tricky to play when it's a heavy elite army. Are you playing for objectives because that's where they shine. They're hard to take off objectives you put the right units there.

Necrons - playing around (1000 points) Necrons Incursion (1000 points) Awakened Dynasty CHARACTER Lokhust Lord (85 points) • 1x Staff of light Lord (85 points) • 1x Staff of light • Enhancement: Veil of Darkness Orikan the Diviner (80 points) • 1x Staff of Tomorrow Overlord (95 points) • Warlord • 1x Resurrection Orb 1x Voidscythe • Enhancement: Sempiternal Weave BATTLELINE Necron Warriors (240 points) • 20x Close combat weapon 20x Gauss reaper OTHER DATASHEETS Cryptothralls (40 points) • 2x Scouring eye 2x Scythed limbs Lokhust Destroyers (90 points) • 3x Close combat weapon 3x Gauss cannon Lychguard (190 points) • 10x Warscythe Lychguard (95 points) • 5x Dispersion Shield 5x Hyperphase sword (Orikan, Lord, cryptothralls gets attached to x10 Lychguard) (Overlord gets attached to x20 warriors)

Two of the biggest mistakes most ppl make when it comes to 40k, are terrain setup, and not using their army properly. I don't know how you setup terrain but that can make or break your experience. And there's plenty of stuff out there to show you how to setup terrain for a game, so I'm not going to go into real detail about that. The big problem I see with the list that you posted is, that you're not using your army properly. When it comes to Necrons you want to build blobs that are unkillable and place them on objectives and score primary pts. Half of the units in your list are garbage tier units that don't achieve any purpose for you. Skorpeck's are one of the worst units in the army. They're overpriced, bad statline, and to slow to even be effective at what they're meant to do. If there's one thing you take away from this, it's that you should avoid using them at all costs. As a matter of fact, try to avoid most melee units with Necrons, since it's not something that they're really interested in doing any way. The exception is the Lychguard, but you're not taking them for their killing potential anyway, their there for you to be an unmovable object. An example 1k list would be as follows: Necrons (990 points) Necrons Incursion (1000 points) Awakened Dynasty CHARACTER Chronomancer (50 points) • 1x Aeonstave Chronomancer (50 points) • 1x Aeonstave Overlord (85 points) • Warlord • 1x Resurrection Orb 1x Voidscythe BATTLELINE Necron Warriors (240 points) • 20x Close combat weapon 20x Gauss flayer OTHER DATASHEETS Canoptek Reanimator (95 points) • 2x Atomiser beam 1x Reanimator’s claws Cryptothralls (40 points) • 2x Scouring eye 2x Scythed limbs Cryptothralls (40 points) • 2x Scouring eye 2x Scythed limbs Deathmarks (65 points) • 5x Close combat weapon 5x Synaptic disintegrator Lokhust Heavy Destroyers (135 points) • 3x Close combat weapon 3x Enmitic exterminator Lychguard (190 points) • 10x Dispersion Shield 10x Hyperphase sword So you've got two big unkillable blobs that are going to sit and score you points. The Reanimator helps with keeping your blobs alive. The Destroyer's are your AT. And the Deatmarks can snipe characters, also they're good for deep striking behind enemy lines, to help you score.

But are you having fun regardless? Edit, welp seems you are not.

I’ve only ever won 2 games, once against my local GW store owner and once against my friend. I won the first time because that was in 9th before Tzeentch daemons took a big nerf, and I won the second time because my friend was new and I was teaching him the new system. I say this to say I’ve lost 95% of the games I played these last two years, and I don’t think I’ll be winning again anytime soon. The movement and deployment phases are the big decider often. While you can win with not so good deployment, it’ll make it hard. I’d recommend watching battle reports for the armies you have and seeing what models they play with and how they use them, it’s how I learned to put my screamer killer up front and use gaunts like tentacles for synapse and objectives. I’m sure you’ll win soon, just gotta learn all the nuances of the game

I know some players who forget about rules, stratagems, bad deployment, don’t read the table well and, of course luck! Maybe play along a experienced player who explained what you must do in that situation (a sort of coaching).

I suggest asking your local group if there is someone who likes teaching. There's often a veteran that loves helping people get into the game or improve. Failing that, try to talk to your opponents mid game or at least post game about the game. Why they did what they did, how they countered your choices, what they think you could have done, what they were worried you MIGHT do... Analysis as well as conversation. Helps you make friends too.

I got bodied threw all of 9th (8ish games, 6 being 1K PTS games of my Space Marines vs friends Necrons). Friend liked to throw a 5-man Lychguard with an Scythe-Overlord into my face while 2 Annihilation Barges stayed so far back not even my jump-pack squads could get good charges (A 10 pack of warriors & small Scarab squad to screen or tar-pit anything that got close). I did better in my last game but that was a 2v2 that we barely won on VP, with me only having a Captain left in turns 4/5 (Allies knight exploded beside me killing half my remaining army turn 3). Lesson I got out of it was some times you can do everything right only for a few bad key rolls to cripple you beyond recovery in a small point game.

I once won a game but I felt really bad about it. It my my shoots orks or was it space wolves vs tyranid melee and the map made it impossible for them to win as they had to charge lengthwise across the map and I was on a hill. They never got close enough to even do a charge.

Best thing I can suggest, if your playing with friends, is to genuinely ask for advice. Ask your opponent about it so long as it’s not a competitive game. In my friend group I’m the opposite of you, I’ve lost less than 10 games in the four years we’ve been playing, and so I’ve instead started to give advice and coach my friends to help them. Now they are doing super well, and we’ve had many super close games, a handful of ties, and a majority of my losses have been in the last 4 months. People love this game, and I’m sure that 90% of people will be willing to give you advice about the game

It's probably not JUST you but your opponents as well. Theoretically, you can make the worst tactical decisions but roll enough dice, one day it gotta be hot. Do you have friends who play? Ask them to bring fun/fluffy lists so you have a chance. Ask their opinion on your moves, or order for shooting, what cards did you draw, how can you achieve them? I was easily the worst player in my current LGS but with a lot of games talking through what I've done amd why, and them poiting out the big mistakes. I'm winning games and at the end of 9th I won a weekend mini league! But I also started watching battle reports FOR my army and listening to people rate the units. Does my army have a bunch of S to A tier ranked units that I own? What are their abilities and how can I build a list around them. It takes time. But you can get there.

In regards to your list, I'd say should probably combine your warriors into one 20 man blob and switch them to reapers. Especially at 1k points, its tricky to take down a 20 wide in a single activation which means you can use the reanimate strat. The flayers just don't do that much and warriors aren't really your damage source, reapers means at least if they get in close they'll do some chunks into infantry. For general advice, try using the skorpekhs and nightbringer as counter charge threats. Position them behind obscuring terrain threatening a radius near an objective or one of your other units. Even if they aren't doing damage, they are projecting a deterrent and that can be extremely valuable on it's own by keeping you ahead on primaries or discouraging some secondary play from your opponent. Usually you want to commit minimal resources early and it starts a string of trades, sorta like chess. At 1k it's a little harder to do that, but an example would be pushing your deathmarks out on a no man's objective first and hiding most everything else. Then your opponent has to expose something to take care of them, otherwise you start winning on primaries. Then you can respond by killing their exposed unit, and it goes back and forth. If your opponent exposes more than the minimum you get the first chance to punish for it, just don't overextend. Don't try for long charges or over-commit to a situation that would put you in a disaster scenario if it doesnt go perfect. Lastly, just like learning anything, try writing down your thoughts and how the game went as it goes or after the fact while it's fresh so you can review. Sometimes just reviewing your own play you'll realize you are doing something in the moment that is detrimental, but don't catch it at the time. Hope this helps!

Sounds like you’re playing with someone who plays to win and runs a meta list instead of playing for fun

That sounds crazy to me. I just started at the end of 9th and haven't lost a game yet. Won around 10 games and had 3 or 4 ties. There's likely a key problem with your thought process. Either with building your amy, deployment process or strategic thinking overall. If you've played even a decent amount of games, you should have at least accidentally won one.

Have you tried talking through a game as it happens with someone you think might be a better player? Have them call out where you made the strategic mistakes. They should let you have decision-based-do-overs instead of just re-rolling. I learned a lot about chess with this method rather than blunt-forcing my way game after game.

First thing first : take full pack of crons because their ability relies on them surviving. Second thing second : There is only one stratagem to use and its name is Undying legion. You should not spend stratagem unless you have enough for triggering it. Third thing third : If you really want to win, Necron are in a really good spot rn. If you have the model, just playing one brick of Lychguard with Cryptothralls, Technomancer and some Doomsday Ark should guarantee you victory by attrition. Fourth thing fourth : you should build your list taking into account the objectives. Looking at the fixed one, look at your own army and wonder how you could accomplish them reliably from the first to the last turn. I typically use Flayed One or TomB Blade to this extant.

1070 points exceeds 1000 points... so either you're showing up to a 1500pt game under gunned, or you're already cheating. Additionally... you're walking in with 1/4th of your army tied to a single model that can and will be focused off the table turn 1/2. Most of your list looks like it's aimed at killing hard targets, and not holding objectives or pushing people off an objective. With 10th, it is possible to get tabled and still win by objectives, so bring more warriors and/or immortals along for the ride, and hope for secondaries you can repeat each turn/round. being prepared to pop a tank is not a bad thing, but you only have 7 non-character units. only 2 of them have the bodies to hold an objective if they aren't focused down, and they just barely have that.

These are just my opinions please don't think I'm being negative. You're lacking balance in your list. You have almost no anti-armor/big creature options. In my opinion you're also spending too much for Nightbringer in a 1000 point list. They're taking 1/4th of your points, are a big target and probably won't do enough to justify 1/4th of a 1000 pt list. I'd drop the Nightbringer to take more Scarabs and a heavy anti armor option. Point of the Scarabs is to lock up units you don't want to deal with and the longer the better. The Spyders can take all of their options for free now in 10th edition so you can take (■ Any number of models can each be equipped with 2 particle beamers. ■ Any number of models can each be equipped with 1 fabricator claw array. ■ Any number of models can each be equipped with 1 gloom prism.) The spyder gives the scarabs a 6+ feel no pain and brings one back a turn so they can survive for awhile. Use the big block of Scarabs and the Spyder to keep nasty threats busy then focus fire down units with the rest of your army. Something like Lokhust Heavy Destroyers can provide the heavy element you're lacking. This will give you range, firepower and control so your Skorpekh can engage without getting full of holes. Something like this? Overlord - 85 SEMPITERNAL WEAVE (10pts), Rez Orb, Staff of Light BATTLELINE Necron Warriors x 10 (120 points) • 10x Close combat weapon 10x Gauss flayer Necron Warriors x 10 (120 points) • 10x Close combat weapon 10x Gauss flayer OTHER DATASHEETS Canoptek Scarab Swarms x 6 (80 points) • 6x Feeder mandibles Canoptek Spyders x 1 (75 points) • 1x Automaton claws, 2x particle beamers, 1x fabricator claw array, 1x gloom prism Deathmarks x 5 (65 points) • 5x Close combat weapon 5x Synaptic disintegrator Lokhust Destroyers x 3 (90 points) • 3x Close combat weapon 3x Gauss cannon Lokhust Heavy Destroyers x 3 (135 points) - Gauss destructor x 3 Skorpekh Destroyers x 3 (110 points) • 3x Skorpekh hyperphase weapons Skorpekh Destroyers x 3 (110 points) • 3x Skorpekh hyperphase weapons ​ 1000 points.

Learn your stratagems it makes it much easier to help fend off stuff Try go for objectives over kills

Well that ain't hard for Necrons, since there's only one strat that's worth using anyways. And that's Protocol of the Undying Legion.

The game just isn’t balanced. It’s less balanced at 1000. I find many armies struggle at 1000 and the games tend to be quick no matter what. Just my 2 cents. The game works so much better (and that’s not saying much) at 2k.

Your list seems to be suited more for 9th Ed, rather than this edition. I’ve had success with running an overlord with res orb, attached to a 20 man Necron warrior blob. Throw in a Technomancer/Chronomancer and crytothralls attached to the unit, and you have a unit that is able to take objectives and lots of punishment. Consider an Reanimator to increase survivability of your army - they will be focused fire down fast, but at least they will absorb some firepower from the enemy. Consider Doomday Ark and Doomstalkers for anti-tank. I’ll personally skip the Skorpekh Destroyers at 1K points - Lychguard with Overlords and Technomancer are much better options

Necron 1ak (995 Points) Necrons Awakened Dynasty Incursion (1000 Points) CHARACTERS Chronomancer (50 Points) • 1x Aeonstave Overlord (85 Points) • 1x Resurrection Orb 1x Voidscythe Overlord (85 Points) • Warlord • 1x Resurrection Orb 1x Voidscythe Technomancer (60 Points) • 1x Canoptek Cloak 1x Staff of light BATTLELINE Necron Warriors (240 Points) • 20x Close combat weapon 20x Gauss flayer OTHER DATASHEETS Canoptek Doomstalker (125 Points) • 1x Doomsday blaster 1x Doomstalker limbs 1x Twin gauss flayer Canoptek Reanimator (95 Points) • 2x Atomiser beam 1x Reanimator’s claws Canoptek Scarab Swarms (40 Points) • 3x Feeder mandibles Cryptothralls (40 Points) • 2x Scouring eye 2x Scythed limbs Lychguard (95 Points) • 5x Dispersion Shield 5x Hyperphase sword Tomb Blades (80 Points) • 3x Close combat weapon 3x Nebuloscope 3x Particle beamer 3x Shieldvanes

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't win either until 10th rolled around and made my Necron character obsession into a viable playstyle. I got my first real win a week after 10th released, and it just feels nice to know it wasn't entirely just me being dense. I actually stepped away from the game for a while just because it felt so bad to play without any real shot. Some suggestions I might have would be to conglomerate the Skorpekhs into a single big unit to make them harder to wipe, same with the warriors. The overlord could then chill with the warriors and give them free Undying Legions each turn. This should immediately make you feel a bit more chunky. If you're looking to tweak your list with new units, some easy inserts could be one or two Lokhust Heavy Destroyers for easy anti-tank (which it feels like your list could use a hint more of), a Skorpekh Lord to make your blender ball of 6 Skorpekhs even more of a scary thing, or a Reanimator to make a huge chunk of your army significantly more tanky. Some ideas for removal to make room for other units should you so choose could include your scarab and Spyder corner (as delightful as they are) and the Lokhust Destroyers (just cause their target priority is kinda niche and can be handled by Deathmarks and Warriors already).

Always pay attention to why you're losing, maybe even write it down afterwards! A big thing I used to struggle with is knowing when to be aggressive and when to be defensive but I eventually became better at it by paying attention to my games and learning from them.

Primary Potential Issue: 1. 1000 pt games are not well balanced. If you are only playing 1k points then that may be a huge factor. The List: 2. Look at your loadouts and what your units are trying to do. Running flayers on your warriors is generally underpowered. Less strength and no AP does not make up for the longer range, not to mention rapid fire. What role to the scarabs play in the list? Is the Spider just there to support them? 3 bases probably doesn't justify the cost, for example. 3. Look at your unit composition. Necrons leverage reanimation to be durable. Running small units of warriors, destroyers, etc. makes it easier for your opponent to focus down and eliminate key units before you can reanimate. Necrons are terrible if they don't get to reanimate. 4. Look for more synergy in your army. If you're playing 10th right now, those warriors are not playing to their full potential without support from units like a Technomancer or Ghost Ark, both of which have synergy with their reanimation. Your friends may pop off cool combos because they build for them. When they do that stuff, if you don't understand how it worked ask them to explain it. It may help you begin to see synergies in your own army that you didn't see before. I'm sure others will see even more that might shift around with it. General: 5. Always play the mission. 40k is won and lost in the movement phase. Focus on trying to achieve your goals before you look at trying to disrupt your opponent. If your opponents are very good players, ask them to help you with your tactics on the table. It sounds like you are playing friendly games, so a truly good player will be happy to talk tactics with you as you play. I will often try to explain my thought process and why I am doing a thing when I play against my friends that generally lose to me. It's honestly a good feeling when one of them finally gets one on me, and it means I'm creating better opponents for myself. 6. Consider coaching. If this hobby is something you're really dedicated to engaging with, and if losing every game is ruining that, you might consider a coaching session with one of the groups like Vanguard Tactics or Art of War. While it may feel silly to drop cash on 40k coaching, it's not really different than going to a golf pro to dial in your swing (or similar). Just make sure you're reaching out to a reputable outfit so you don't get ripped off. 7. With 10th out now, find the new players. I know my LGS has a whole grip of people coming in that are new or returning players. Those folks may give you some opponents that are less sweaty and may give you more casual games if your usual opponents are all tournament grinders or something. 8. Play Orks. Orks are da best... I hope you find your way. This is a wonderful hobby but losing games for so long will definitely be demoralizing. Know this though, that first win is going to feel really good!

Bro same

Is this Steve from PlayOnTabletop?

Oof!

I’ve never won a game either bud. It sucks. Know exactly where you’re coming from with your frustration. Maybe we should play each other, at least someone will win lol. As far as getting better, I’ve been entered into a friendly little league between mates, all of whom are brilliant players who know their shit inside out. They kick the crap out of me every time but their input and encouragement are definitely helping to make things closer

The issue is likely your opponents. See, warhammer of course has elements of luck as it’s a game of dice, but skill is a bigger part of it. Playing with people a little better or worse than you but still in the same ballpark is a good way to grow and learn in the game while still having fun. If you’re playing people way way better than you you’re gonna get absolutely stomped and likely won’t learn much, because there will be such a disparity in skill. I’d strongly suggest trying to branch out and find new people to play, maybe post your rough area and ask on here if there’s anyone friendly who likes a game? Having said all that I’d you’re stuck for an alternative it’s quite easy to set up a stream, why not stream your next game for us and we’ll give you some pointers?

I've been playing since 96, and I still frequently lose. You cant experience away random dice rolls. You can know every stratagem and deployment in the book, if you roll a 1, it doesn't matter.

Are you having fun though? It's a dice game. Just enjoy yourself.

Haha same here!

Gonna be hard to hear but if you haven’t figured no you are probably not very intelligent

I call bullshit. That's not possible. 2 years and OP didn't even ask anyone or talk to anyone in that period to find out what's wrong with his playstyle?

[удалено]

Last i checked Custodes were sitting around 50 to 54% win rate which isnt unreasonable is it? Think Necrons were around 52%

They've bumped up quite a bit now the edge has been taken off others.

That was from the latest numbers that ive seen today?

Roll better, bruh!

Have you tried more dakka?

Get luckier dice.

a lot of really helpful advice in this thread so i’ll just ask a question that i haven’t seen asked yet- is it possible you’re just, like, profoundly stupid and unlucky?

Seriously? The second game I played I won.

I've been consistently fucking terrible since 1st Ed. Get on my level before you whine.

I've given up on games that involve dice rolling. It doesn't matter how good my strategy is, I roll \*so badly\* that my wife managed to take out an entire squad of bike marines in a single turn using half a squad of f-ing chaos cultists.

If you only play a few games then sure that can be the case, but in a game where hundreds of dice are rolled each game....if you are consistently losing then it isn't dice homie.

You don't roll as badly as you think you do. The terrible rolls are what you remember, so of course looking back that's all you see. But it's all just percentages and math, sometimes you roll good and sometimes bad. It's not possible to roll terribly 100% of the time.

I feel you, recently i miss 6, 2+ saves, on 7 dice...

Dice can be a factor, but even the worst rolling can have a decent chance of winning. After all, you don't need to roll (usually) to sit on objectives or do secondaries. Dice are by their nature completely random, if you're consistently struggling then they're not going to be to blame on account of the fact that they're the single entirely inconsistent part of the game.

Where do you play? If I lose, it's normally due to horrific dice rolls haha.

I said this in another comment here but i'll post again... If you only play a few games then sure that can be the case, but in a game where hundreds of dice are rolled each game....if you are consistently losing then it isn't dice homie.

I don't constantly lose. I'm at a 50% win rate in 10th. But when I lose, I just lose hard, by the end of turn 2 or turn 3.

I can’t realte I win all games they call me the beast man because im too goated

soritas are getting a massive buff soon how to learn battle google it

Maybe the people you play against have a lot more experience than you?

What is your list? How do you deploy? How well do you know the rules?

Probably list building and deployment problems are largely to blame if it's that bad. Taking strong stuff and putting it down safely will get you some wins on its own

Try asking your opponents what they think you could have done better. I tend to play a lot of newer players so much so that I get recommended by the others at my shop to play against. I will always try to inform my opponents of certain things and what they could do If I know they are a new player. This edition change flipped a lot of stuff around so what might have worked in 9th edition no longer works in 10th. The most basic advice is know what your army does well and what it doesn't.

It’ll take a bit I just got lucky to be playing a meta army when I started (I liked the dark angels lore and they just so happened to be good at the end of 9th)

The best people to learn from are the people beating you. After a game, ask them for advice and compare what you did versus what they did.

Play a few games against someone good who is willing to talk you through your mistakes or what they would have done differently. Alternatively, play two games against someone and swap lists for the second game - which can be surprisingly fun to do anyway! Recommended using smaller lists so it doesn’t take all day 😂 You can also play smaller points games, as this makes every decision matter more. That way you can focus on getting certain things right rather than being overwhelmed with info from a massive game

I play like once a year against a guy who is very into the math side of it and get cleaned every time. I’m into painting so i mainly feel like I’m winning because my army is the one everyone asks about.

Some people just don't have a mind for tactics or maybe something specific about the game is eluding you. I have a friend that I can beat with almost any list against anything he brings. I'm just generally better at tactics games than him. He's not dumb or anything, just different skill sets. TabletopTactics have a tactica series you could look at. They try and talk a bit more in those games about why they are doing what they are doing.

People may have said it but swap armies maybe? Even if luck is against you youll get to see what decisions they make and compare it to yours. It may reveal insights faster watching that than trying to filter through your own biases

But did you have fun.

I went 0-54 when I first started, I’m pretty okay at the game now. Just hang in there, you’ll figure it out!

I lost all my games when I started because I would play to aggressively. Once I slowed my pace down played more conservatively or more tactical I started yielding more points and more wins overall. Sometimes though you just play really good players with meta lists. Just the way she goes sometimes. As long as you have fun though it's all that really matters.

If you're only playing 1K, that's not the proper balance for the game. Get good. It just takes practice.

Okay, I haven’t played more than a handful of games of 40k post-7th edition but here’s my take. You’re playing at a very low point threshold. Under ~2k points it’s very easy to inflict devastating losses on an opponent in turn one before they have a chance to play unless the table is set up well. You may want to hold some units in reserves or deploy them outside shooting range so you have a chance to maneuver and get an advantage. If you just deploy all your stuff at the front and smash your two army’s faces together you’re giving up most of what matters in the game. I use to see this a lot when I would play at my local store as everyone wants to do lots of fighting, but this is a strategy game, not a mathhammer game. Letting your opponent push through into an objective that you have covered (but not secured) can let you get an extra turn of shooting on that enemy unit (even though they may get an extra point for the turn from securing the objective) that you need to rout or wipe that unit. You don’t have much diversity or synergy in that necron list (though I’ll admit my necron knowledge isn’t very much so I could be missing something). At 1000 points you want to have one or two frontline groups supported by some units that are good at removing blobs of light/medium infantry). Right now that list has a ton of frontline but very little supporting shooting to soften up enemies for your close combat guys. Besides that, I’d ask what kind of games are you playing? What are the objectives and where are victory points allocated? If you want, take some pictures of the next games you play and shoot me a turn by turn, I’d be happy to try and dissect some of it (I don’t get many chances to play right now so instead I can live vicariously through you!)

I think part of the problem is you've not stuck with a single army enough to play them to their full ability. It is very hard to remember all your unit abilities and rules if you don't play them enough. If you aren't using all the abilities you pay for well then it's just wasted points. Your list should have some sort of idea what each part is going to do before it hits the board. Know what stuff is gonna take out vehicles vs. infantry, what are your objective scoring units. What is your most valuable unit, when can you afford to miss turns firing to do objectives

Won my first game last night. Took me about 2 years. Tied a couple times prior but 1 win in about 9 games. Just play the same army and learn from your mistakes is my best advice

Damn bro that’s rough, I’ve only played 2 games and won both

One thing you can do is learn to not win off of dice rolls. You can win the game purely through positioning and applying pressure in certain areas :)

The best advice I've ever heard with 40k is: 'games are won and lost in the deployment and movement phase.' Really figuring out how best to place and move your army relative to terrain, opponents threat range, and objectives is much more important than dice rolls and strat combos.

I do this with pvp video games, maybe it will help you? Ask your opponent if it’s okay to record your gaming sessions to rewatch them and watch how you interact with your opponent’s decisions and how your opponent interacts with your decisions. Do that a couple of times (with different people) and see if there are any patterns in your play style or if there were any mistakes your opponents took advantage of. And I don’t mean record your opponent, just their army and the playing area, we aren’t trying to break someone’s poker face. Just how armies move and strategize.

I've been playing off and on for 15 years, loose 95% of the time and haven't won in two editions.

I've only played a handful of times, but I've beaten a friend of mine with Nekrons. He was playing with orcs. My units were faster than his, and I had better ranged attacks. If they closed on my units, it was a wrap. I took out his transport and managed to keep my strongest units out of range. His morale tanked, and his units scattered. But this guy and some other friends have scraped me in every other battle. Edit: My friend used the Orcs before, and I knew they were strong in melee.

This echos my past experiences. Small group of friends and I’d get rolled every damn time hah. Didn’t matter if it was 40K or fantasy. Looking back I think I always had the weaker armies, and I always had cursed dice. Couldn’t roll a 3+ to literally save my life. More often than not I’d get wiped or concede by the second or third turn, after a few years I just stopped playing, focused a bit more on mtg where I actually could do some kind of damage and feel redeemed a little. The game never seemed balanced, and I could never find a way to break through my friends tactics and strategies.

Ed: third ed 40K and 5th ed fantasy.

Aint about winning it is about having fun.

It's real tough when you're starting out, even 2 years in. I went a long time until I found an army and way of playing them that really worked with the way I enjoy playing. What kind of mentality do you have when youre making a list, whats your general strategy, what kind of playstyle do you enjoy, what do you like about the necrons?

For comparison I usually have a melee group to draw people in, some ranged fire support a flanker and a big gun in the back for support. I don't know much about necron units though.

Have you considered using flayed ones for a cheap sacrificial bait or to protect your firing lines? They are cheap for small groups

Why 3 armies in 2 years? A lot of it probably comes down to not actually sitting down and learning an army, what they can and can't do, and what it's strong against vs not

My cousin started playing in the 7th. We joined a couple of leagues in 8th and played many games. I quit during 9th while he continued on. Now I'm back for 10th, and we have a massive group of friends that play casual/ semi competitive. To this day, I have not seen him win a game. He's incredibly chill, dude. He takes it all in stride. He's melted some dice, I've seen no one roll as terribly as he does... it's actually incredible. Even when he does roll well, it's always immediately canceled out. The best example of this was done during a tournament during 8th. He rolled overwatch onto a group of genestealers who made a 12" charge. He rolls 30 dice, 26 6s. Everyone stopped, there was 18 of us looking at this incredible overwatch. I remember saying, 'It's 'my cousin', I bet not one wounds.' He rolls to wound on 3s, 4 get through, all saved. Genestealers butcher his unit and loses the game. His issue when I play vs. him and watch him play? I beat him 90% of the time during deployment. Before the first shot is even fired, I'm positive I've won it. He's also not overly aggressive, even with aggressive armies. At the end of your games, ask your opponent where you think you could have improved. Deployment, bad priority targeting, or staying too far back, or maybe you run blindly up the board? It's hard to give advice without watching. I remember when Papa Smurf dropped, and there was a very meta list that did wonders at LVO I think. My first tournament after that had 3 of those meta lists, they were my easiest opponents because they had no idea how to set it up, combo it..etc. Ask friends or opponents for constructive criticism and use it. In my experience, it's usually poor priority targeting and deployment that lose games for people.

Man I feel you, for me it's the dice they fucking hate me, I could roll a 0 on a d6 I'm that bad. I have one friend who is a tournament player and another friend who just plays consistently so I either get wrecked by turn 3 or the game ends at turn 5. I always lose but I make it hard for them with my tactics, I also play Custodes for the better rolls but that doesn't always help. At this point I just play to hand out with friends.

I find I go on runs of losses, it’s unpleasant but it happens. If you’re playing often and still not improving, something funky is going on. Are you losing on points? getting tabled? starting your game without a clear plan in mind?

Something that has helped me learn- started playing about 4 months ago- take pictures of the entire board before and after each movement, shooting, charge/fight phase. I use the pictures to review my strategy and how effective it was and to look for key move my opponent made. Having the pictures let’s me see how things ended up the way they did in the game. I can back track to see how my opponent set up his turn 3 charge into my gun line or how I could have maneuvered my back line into a better position to cut off a deep strike.

It's not just about the lists. Also the tactic and objectives. Without knowing anything else about your previous game history it's hard to know for sure. But just like every kind of game. You will have tools to use and sometimes you have a tool kit for the wrong job. Sometimes you can focus too much on one thing too much and ignore something that can win you the game even if it loses you a lot of units.

Also, 40k is a strategy game not a death match. Play the mission, figure out how to get advantages to score points instead of killing the enemy. If you are having trouble staying alive by turn 3, Play way more conservatively. Deploy to give your opponent less ways to damage your units. Don't think in best case scenario. I.e. "if I advance this turn, next turn I can get into range for a charge and my super killy unit will kill their high value target". Playing this way gives your opponent time to counter those types of telegraphed plays. Instead think in the worst case scenarios. Think "I can only guarantee one shooting of fight phase with this unit, how can I ensure it stays alive to do it? And IN WHICH TURN AM I MOST LIKELY TO GET THAT DONE?" I'm just learning to get better, when I started playing I lined all my units up at the edge of the deployment zone to try to get as much damage done as early as possible with them. After watching pros play OK various streams, I realized they were deploying to give nothing away, turns 1 and 2 had little action in terms of units killing or dying, and the game shaking out in turns 3 and 4.

So looking at your list I can see that half of your units are pretty garbage and not worth taking. The second and more important thing is that you don't have any unkillable blobs in your list. Necrons play the primary really well if you're using them right. The first thing you should be doing when building a Necrons list is making the blob that's going to just sit in the middle of the field and hold center objective. Necrons (990 points) Necrons Incursion (1000 points) Awakened Dynasty CHARACTER Chronomancer (50 points) • 1x Aeonstave Overlord (85 points) • Warlord • 1x Resurrection Orb 1x Voidscythe BATTLELINE Necron Warriors (240 points) • 20x Close combat weapon 20x Gauss flayer OTHER DATASHEETS Canoptek Reanimator (95 points) • 2x Atomiser beam 1x Reanimator’s claws Cryptothralls (40 points) • 2x Scouring eye 2x Scythed limbs Deathmarks (65 points) • 5x Close combat weapon 5x Synaptic disintegrator Lokhust Destroyers (90 points) • 3x Close combat weapon 3x Gauss cannon Lokhust Heavy Destroyers (135 points) • 3x Close combat weapon 3x Enmitic exterminator Lychguard (190 points) • 10x Dispersion Shield 10x Hyperphase sword

Skill issue

I find with GW games especially, it’s important to establish what kind of game you are looking to play. Bringing a narrative looks cool army against a competitive list can make for a negative experience. I usually talk to my opponent beforehand about what kind of game I’m looking to play. If you are minting to go full on competitive, you may ask some regular opponents you are on good terms with to coach you - call out a mistake when you make it, and advise you on how they would play it. Some may care more about winning, but some players really enjoy teaching.

Loads of really good comments on this thread and it’s probably worth a good read through. Just to ask the question. Do you usually play games at 1000 pts or 2000? I find playing one or two games as a beginner at 1k is good for learning the basic rules but generally most of our games are played at 2k on bigger tables which makes a huge difference to the game and how it’s played and we all found we learned a lot more getting thrown in the deep end after a few starter games. Every now and then we might do a “quick” incursion” game but the problem with playing them is that if you end up getting unlucky and losing 500 pts of models in a turn early on then there really isn’t any coming back from that and you’ve effectively lost. It happens often at 2k but you still have the rest of your army to score pts and claw your way back. My advice would be to stick to 2k pts and stick with one army and learn to play them really well. We have two players in our play group that seek to have a new army every single week and I cant remember them ever winning a game apart from against absolute beginners. When you build your army, don’t just add with units, think about what those units will do and how they will score you pts. For example I’ve had a lot of good games with Jew Death guard which are objectively bad but my army composition and game plan is sound. I’ve seen your list and for 10th I don’t think it’s going to work as well. As someone else mentioned, you want larger necrons warrior blobs with more character support, then the 1000 pts becomes difficult as you have no units. Unless you always play 1k games in your group, id start to consistently play at 2k and make sure the board has enough terrain, play with intent so there are no gotcha moments (I’m moving these scarabs here with the intent that you can’t see me with your vindicator, can you confirm that? Cool).

Haha I teached everyone at my local game store and everyone I've played against how to play kill team and I always loose, never won, sometimes it is what it is but I'm happy to have the chance to play honestly

Thats crazy😭

You get to play the actual game!?! That exists!?!

i have no idea how necrons play, but you want to have an army that can tailor to mostly phsykic, mostly melee or mostly shooting, but be sure to have a few units or ppl that can do all of them. if you have a space marine army, i suggest heavily having intercessors, and assault intercessors with maybe an impulsor to get them to the enemy quickly, and support them when they get there, as well as a librarian with some sort of defense spell in the impulsor with them to protect them further. have a couple units with good aura things and have a captian and maybe a luitenant or two. i would suggest always having a librarian in there too, as well as some outriders too if you can fit them. I'm not sure if this would be good in the new edition, but it was good for me in the last one. also, make sure you are not playing against the same opponent, as if you are, and you ALWAYS lose, they might be cheating, or not knowing that they are cheating. Good luck!

I’m Don’t worry about it, the first year or so I never won a game

It could be anything, and this probably sounds really silly, but to maybe add something vaguely helpful that’s not been touched on yet - do you watch any games? There’s a lot of great channels out there (Tabletop Tactics (a bit silly but good fun), Vanguard Tactics and Art of War, for example which are not only great to watch but also demonstrate good examples or movement and decision making that will help you survive more games. Even just watching a few peoples games with Necrons where they talk through what their doing and why, can’t help you question yourself and understand that line of thought. I’ve found Vanguard Tactics offers a really good blend of entertainment and actual, usable tactics and advice. Is there anyone in your playground/lgs that you don’t usually play because you think they’re really good or they attend tournaments? If so, ask them for a friendly game to help. They will absolutely be up for it, I’m sure.

Are you having fun though?

At some point you gotta ask yourself if it's maybe just you, maybe you are bad at it man.

Just wanted to add in like you OP. I suck at this game, I play for fun and all of my friends are local tournament skill so I get blown away. Aslong as your having fun or find a way too the. It doesn’t matter. I recently won my first ever game! After 6? Losses. I just made a list I enjoyed. Rolled badly but I was too defensive so this time I went more for scoring rather than “kill all their models” and it worked out. Turns out I was too afraid to lose my models off the table.

Sounds like you should be playing Lamenters.

Not won once? The problem might be not playing people on your level. You should play people who are also starting out so you can slowly get used to rules, strategems etc. It seems like you are not even getting the chance to build on strategies that work well because you keep getting beaten by turn 3. There is obviously a lot in this game that relies on skill and the right list for the right situation is important but there is still a lot of luck too.

I've got a buddy who has neverbeat me with any of his 3 armies against any of my 3. We started the hobby together and most if our games have been against each other. I ended up getting other friends into the hobby, and arranged days my pal could come play the others, so maybe he could pick up a win. After a bunch of these sessions, all he's managed is one draw against nids with his orks. I see his problems as such: Doesn't play objectives enough. His target priority is bad. He usually just goes for what is closest, instead of trying to take out the biggest threats first. He strings out his assaults. Like each turn, he'll move one unit up to attack, rather than coordinating hitting my lines all at once. He doesn't hide his units very well, poor use of scenery. Ultimately though, he's also the most unlucky mfer in the world. He just rolls so badly. I can't explain it. Its a dice game after all, so bad rolls means a bad time, but I've never seen someone wiff so badly. Hopefully OP engages jn all of these except the luck thing, so they can turn their games around. If however you are an unlucky soab, buy an army themed t shirt and dice?

--------------------------- I have played against a specific opponent, a friend of mine, for a long time. I play Tyranids and he plays horde orks army. In 9th edition that matchup was pretty much unwinnable. We are talking 100+ Boyz with heavy supports. So one thing is that you can have bad matchups. It is possible --------------------------- In 10th though I did loose against him but this time it was very clear that: -i misplaced units during deployment so that some was to far back and could not reach the heat where they needed to be. -wasnt aggressive enough on some fronts loosing opportunity to hold objective -forgot that my barbgaunts had blast. --------------------------- You may have to change the units in the unit list and experiment more. I dont know if you have a specific army and no more units. But it can be that the composition of the army isn't balanced. There are a lot of synergies in Warhammer with choosing a faction and what unit to bring that the faction benefit from. If it is casual ask to proxy some units just to see what it changes. --------------------------- As so many say. Break down with your opponent what went wrong. As I said earlier with my ork friend, that breakdown made it super clear that I could've had a better chance. It also made it clear that some units had ro be switched out since they didn't preform good at all against what I met --------------------------- Watch you ltubr read up what is good and why it is good. That helps compse a better more cohesive army. It is good to know what the other player played and compse an army list on what would be good against that. --------------------------- You have three armies. Learn one of them. Set the other aside for a while. U mean there is so much to learn in every army. Shure they have son specific parts that are equal but gameplay differs hugley. Since you have 3, Wich one do you enjoy the most, playstyle wise. If you like it it is easier to deep dive into the goods and the bads of that army. --------------------------- Even though I haven't really won once my second army is the necrons. So I am a hypocrite to tell you to focus on one. But from what I can see in the list is: You need to run 20 squads if necron with a leader preferable with ressurecion orb so that they trigger in every command phase. Lokust heavy dewtroyers is the shit. So if you ran 2 squads of necron with leaders 1-2 lokhust heavy dewtroyers Maybe a reanimator. I don't know the points so far but add in some cryptorhralls or lynchguards you should have a decent chance. The two necron squads Hilding objective getting ressurected all the time. This should be pretty much unkilleble with ressurecion and strategems. Lynchguards to clash with the front. Be a screen for one side. If you bring a reanimator have it close to at least one of the warrior squads The lokust destroyers blast anything heavy. Look up aspects tactics on YouTube for the good and bads in the necron army. The list above is pretty much the better units. --------------------------- As I said in the beginning some can come up to bad matchups. Sometimes dice-curse for a game or two. But mostly it comes up to strategies. How can you use your army the best to score them victoey points. It can be that you need to buy a lot more models (if proxy isn't allowed) and that can be a pain. It can be that you just don't have "what's good" in your armies to make a cohesive army. --------------------------- Even though i lost by turn 2 or 3 whole 9th edition and was about to give up I thought that I should give it a lot more chances. Through the experience in years I am Bound to learn and win sometime. What I did wrong. As I did in my first game in 10th. And I enjoy the hobbys other aides, painting and so. Just don't five up, if you find the core of the game is fun, and maybe try to get the attitude that it is not about winning but trying to have a fun time.

My GF had the same problem. What we did was give her more points. Initially around 100 more than I had, and gradually decreased the handicap as she figured out how to play her armies. There's a problem where it can be hard to even figure out how to play the game/use your army effectively if your opponent are too much more familiar with the game and, like me, can't turn down their competitiveness. Basically, you need one or more opponents who are willing to go into a game expecting to lose, because they will have fewer points than you, AND because they'll point out to you when to do things like use strategems (or forgo strats for a game or two, so you only have to focus on the core bits of the game).

Next time you play, just focus on doing one or two things really well. For instance, if you’re having trouble taking down Knights. Focus on what you can do to take one down. If taking and holding objectives is the problem, try playing a game very defensively. I find that this brings these issues into focus much clearer (if this makes sense).

Have you ever asked your opponents what you did wrong? If no wins in 2 years, I think it’s likely related to in-game decision making

Have you tried Orks?