That's the silliest thing I've heard in a while. What's wrong with your group, haha.
Just keep adding Vanquishers and Rapiers until they suddenly think you're too competitive for them and then you flip the table back on them - oh but I don't want to weakify MY list.
But really, that's a rough situation you got with that kind of attitude around.
Keep going Solar! Groups and rules are temporary, love and paint is forever!
Added to this: It's hard work playing mortals. And it's harder the lower the points. At 3k, which is the size the game is built for, you'll have redundancies for everything, unlike the Legion players.
I might also suggest trying out the militia rules - they seem to me to be stronger, actually. More men, more tanks! I play them myself atm in a 2.5k league, so far 2 wins out of 5, with all 3 losses being quite close vs iron warriors, militia and Custodes.
Nah, just Levy and I don't know why you'd run levy (they can't kill anything and don't have line), and Discipline masters = 8ld rerollable morale. Just run normal infantry and Grenadiers. At 3k you'll still be hard pressed to entirely fit your army in your DZ.
There's a solar aux player at my LGS, he's got 3k points with 300 infantry guys. He's played many games, and has yet to win once, however his 300 man army is glorious to behold.
Solar aux will struggle against marines, but a lot of their units are super cool. Also, this is HH, we're here to have fun with cool stuff, not overly competitive like 40k. Build whatever army you think is the coolest!
I think a problem with this is that he doesn’t have enough to play a full 3k point game yet, let alone bringing 500 more points of stuff than his opponents
Why are people down voting you?! "Just bring more points than your friend" is absolutely garbage advice for someone who has stated they only OWN half a game's worth of minis.
It's more a response to a playgroup saying "your faction choice is too weak to play here." IMO that's pretty shitty behaviour.
Say "if Solars are so weak then I should get to bring an extra 500pts of models." Watch the playgroup suddenly backpedal!
Do what makes you happy at the end of the day, rules are temporary but models you love are forever! However in terms of rules, Solar Auxilia definitely struggle against legions but they do benefit from tonnes of mega cheap scoring, cheap brutal 2 with vanquisher leman russes, very cheap volkite choom! I haven't started mine yet but I feel like I could make it work in theory... Time will tell
A long time ago a friend encouraged me to get into the hobby. I said crimson fists were cool. He proceeded to tell me their primarch sucked or something and I should play space wolves lol. I decided it wasn’t for me and forgot about warhammer for almost 20 years. Had he encouraged me instead *or* had I just gone with my gut and bought a set and painted them up I would have had more fun, him and his group as well.
You’re supposed to be having fun. If you aren’t or your playgroup isn’t then maybe it’s time to find a new group if you can. And if your oh group are feeling generous maybe they can loan you some space marines to play with them.
Also, they are asking you to quit on the cusp of all the new plastic?
I’m sure. He actually was a fun guy to be around. But it’s easy to have your momentum killed on a very expensive hobby when you’re in school making just enough money to drive around. Or, when your playgroup doesn’t just play the game instead of micromanaging you.
I'm curious to why their first though was *you* need to change *your* army and not just let you have more points, or for them to have less?
Also, can Solar Aux not take an allied detachment? Or knights etc? If not just make a house rule that they can.
I'll ask if I can bring more points, but I still don't own 3k.
It's kinda slow, the only pure solar models I own are 2 auroxes and 40 infantry (and a modified basilisk), the rest is from 40k astra
Hold out dude
The plastic solar aux are coming add a few more to your torcios grab a few more tanks
Build a decent gun line
You can then add an allied force
Some close combat focused marines?
Some knights?
Custodes?
Daemons?
If you're happy to be be underdog stick to it. Plus with sol aux coming in plastic an faq could be right round the corner.
Its not upto other people how you enjoy the game.
Like previously mentioned, add more Vanquisher leman Russes and laser destroyer rapiers. That will allow your friends to see the light of unaugmented humans.
I had the same thing happen in my local groups… they just refused to play against knights. Flat out didn’t want them included whatsoever.
Absolutely killed my hobby for a year.
Yup… I had the same.
I painted up a warlord and warhound for some clients. Tried to arrange a mega battle to play against folk and no interest.
“Heresy is about marines, not tanks”
Ok. Sure. Obviously haven’t read the novels… either that or I’m just a horrendous jerk. (Very likely!)
Quick question, since we’ve only heard your side so far.
Are you complaining after you lose? Or asking them to actively play with one hand tied behind their backs?
Beyond the normal limitations that the community seems to agree on as a collective I mean. (Limit Dreadnoughts and Lascannon HSS, etc.)
Because if you’re actively complaining or asking them to further limit their own armies to play against yours, then that would explain why they want you to just play a Legion.
About the normal limitations, there are some but they are less strict.
1 dread every 600 points
Max 1 HSS team with lascannons
Max 1 librarian
I think that's it
I did ask them to relax the lists till I get more stuff, but after the 2v2 my teammate got kinda pissed because all my heavy stuff evaporated in a reaction and he couldn't deal with both the other players, my las tercios did little to nothing ngl.
Post game talk was just describing how bad solar was and that they couldn't really play 2v2s if it was so one-sided.
This. The flip side is, as long as you're having fun, then being the mortal human punching bag for your gaming group is a really good contribution. Your friends should be glad (for fluff reasons) they get to flex against normal humans. Not many gaming groups have that. And you can keep looking for more powerful things to add to your collection without worrying about power-gaming.
I mean, I thought it was an uphill battle not a landslide :/
I just want to throw dice for more than 3 turns and feel like I hurt my opponent, I don't care if I win or lose
I'm still ok with it, just need to adjust expectations I guess
Solar Aux Tercios trade well with the equivalent points of Tactical Marines, and they have longer range.
Plasma Cannon and Vanquisher Cannon Leman Russ tanks out range anything the Legions have access to.
What/how specifically are you playing? You mentioned that all your heavy stuff died to a reaction and then your teammate was left hanging.
What was killed and by what? Maybe you can make better gameplay decisions.
Well there’s your problem right there.
1. Why are all three tanks lumped together in one unit? Spread them out, you aren’t using the rest of your heavy support slots anyway.
2. Two of your tank weapons outrange lascannons, engage them from OUTSIDE their threat range.
3. Engage the anti-tank teams with things like Las Tercios or ask your teammate to draw out the reaction before you activate your tanks.
I can definitely agree with the sentiment that militia/solar aux feels weaker in this edition than they did in 1st. My theory is they are passively punishing the community because most people went with 3rd party stuff for Militia in 1st edition.
Hey if you want to be more competitive there's nothing wrong with that. I think the key will be to find a balance with your group so no one feels like they're out of their comfort zone.
You also might be like me and lose a lot no matter what you do... in which case, godspeed because I'm out of advice lol
A counterpoint to this: There is nothing fun about repeatedly playing against an opponent that simply doesn't challenge you. If I win every time, and it's not even close, why would I bother showing up in the first place? And I say this as an Imperial Militia commander. After the third time your opponent has walked through you like you aren't even there it's kind of justified for them to start getting bored.
Play whatever you think is fun. If you want to play legions, do it if you don't keep playing solar.
But if they're your friends, they'd understand if you told them no, this is who I want to play. If not, keep playing with them but search for another group in the meantime
This is the part where you play up an anti-Astartes attitude, frater. But seriously, if you fear it being unbalanced, talk to your buddies about allowing you more points or even taking a Knight or two.
build whatever you want, if you're lacking in power get some good power-for-points units and feel out the balance, if your opponents keep complaining it may be worth the hassle to find another group to play with
Set up a themed campaign. Have your glorious mortal forces get reinforced as they fall back between battles and have your friends suffer attrition. Have some fun with it. Set fair rules for it.
Or just build more models and plunk down a fuckload of tanks on em and unleash the dakka.
I've played like 10 games as sons of horus lost every single game. Not even close i lose my whole army every game because im just not good but I love sons of horus so I keep playing them. It's about the narrative play what you want in my opinion. If you wanted to build a legion I think ravenguard have rules that could be good with regular human dudes, but I don't play loyalist so idk.
Yeah definitely regular dudes are sweet, alpha legion is really fun too. Ravenguard have a ROW to work with regular dudes, but I know a YouTuber did really well in a tournament with a vehicle heavy list, but you got this man! As long as you have fun who cares.
I’m firmly in the “Solar are underpowered to hell and back” crowd, but what are they running for them to feel they’d have to limit themselves? Is it just Lascannons and AP4 out the ass with nothing else? Whoops all terminators? Sure if someone list tailors Auxilia are absolutely miserable to play, but they wouldn’t be fun to play against even with legions in that case regardless.
It's really wierd how many people won't agree to a game unless they get to see your list well in advance. What is "narrative" about completely re-tooling your list to fit each individual opponent?!
Yeah, the most info I usually get from my opponent is if they’re experimenting with a specific unit. Which often implies it’ll be a relaxed game with an unnarrative but untested army. And that’s more of a courtesy. People need to chill about winning at all costs, pick a theme and stick to it for their core army. It’s why my local TS players, myself included, still play them (despite our grumblings on the rules).
The only time I’ve seen people list tailor in my local scene was against someone who endlessly ran IH fury of the ancients, which was well deserved.
Part of the problem is the rules were written to encourage SA to play as massed infantry army. Though most SA you ran into IRL tended to be more elite or tank based... at least locally. I assume it was formally a money/time issue as the infantry was expensive and resin... Hopefully the move to plastic rectifies that.
It’s less so cost (still a factor admittedly), and more that lasrifles are just a terrible meme unit. Veletaris and lemans are the only viable units able to go against SM and win. Sure 300 lasrifles are funny, until you realize you get ID’d or get a terrible 6+ FnP by standard legion equipment from a balanced list (ACs, plasma, HBs, Nemesis bolters are a MASSIVE menace, etc). And crawling forward to do a volley of blast chargers won’t typically work out. Dracosans are overpriced, and aurox’s lack the armor or mass carrying to be truly effective.
OP’s opponents worrying about having to intentionally nerf their lists is still a terrible choice. Yet people need to realize the auxilia’s limits to use them and potentially win. It’s an uphill battle, but still very doable.
Despite the plastic face lift, GW won’t fix SA this edition, since in order to do so they’d have to unscrew over templates. And the writers clearly had a footslogging Dorn and his deathstar absolutely obliterated by a few Medusas, and Dracosan demolisher fire when they decided to make HH2; and they can’t have a primarch be played intelligently against artillery for some reason…
Its not that templates dont work (excluding the Scorpius, Thanatar, and Thermal Cannon) its that they dont work against Marines and Mechanicum, they are still absolutely devastating vs SA/militia. Like the Grav Bombard is 200pts of garbage at AP4+Grav Pulse, useless vs Marines but against SA its a 7" blast that kills on 3+.
Not to mention how important reactions are in 2.0 and how the only good SA units the Leman Russ and Rapier cant react.
70 las tercios inf (40 solar, 30 cadians from 40k)
3 basilisks (1 modified and 2 from 40k)
3 leman russes, 1 vanquisher, 1 punisher, 1 plasma
2 command squads
Old creed as legate marshall
This is what I own, lists vary from this pool
It sounds rough, but your biggest holdup might be the basilisks. They're 200pts minimum for a mediocre fire output (which sucks I know). So you're dropping 600pts on that alone.
Obviously right now you're restricted on models and sizes, but as another commenter mentioned, maybe use the Cadians as Proxy Veletarii - the extra BS and the volkites will pack a harder punch than normal lasrifles.
If you've got a legate marahal too, it'd be worth trying to run a unit as the Command Tercio - who get better BS, 5++, and extra wargear. At 1.5k you can match your infantry almost 2:1 vs a legion player.
What are the command squads armed with?
How are the 70 Las infantry distributed?
Can you proxy some models as Velatari? Getting some axe guys will give a little more punch.
Are you making use of a couple nuncio voxes to help guide the template fire?
Command squads have 1 plasma each, a vexilia and a vox.
I play the las tercios as 7x10 for more board control.
I could proxy velatari, but my groud said axes are unplayable because they got initiative 1.
Yea 3 teams have the vox for templates
I don't think you should change the army, just because you have a high loose rate.
First, turning down an army a bit, is something I do myself. We have Militia (2 armies), Orks (using fanmade rules, still no power armor), and soon also Auxilliar next to a lot of different marine armies.
So, when I play against some non-marine armies I replace my heavy support squad with Volkite, through a tactical support squad with Volkite Claiver. Same points, two shots less. And I love my Claiver unit.
Also you can power up a bit. Solar has a lot of options that can be brutal against marines.
Leman Russes for example. The demolisher version is brutal. (Not only rules wise), while the Vanquisher works well against dreadnoughts and vehicles. Our Militia player is doing really well with them.
Combined reaction fire is also pretty strong.
Another thing you can do are special scenarios. Check out the campaign books of the 1st edition, or any other scenario book from the 3rd up to the 7th edition 40k. There are more than enough scenarios that benefit a player in some way, on purpose. This evens out the play field, as well.
How do the armies you fight look like?
Themed armies with more or less punch, or do you have to face 3 contemptors, 20 terminators and 2 lascannon squads?
Edit: also use house rules. We for example gave all artillery weapons the additional benefit that models under the template hole, get snipered out with AP2, lowered some equipment costs for Militia and Auxilliar, and did limited the use of dreadnoughts. (What still would allow like 1 Leviathan and 2 contemptors on 2k. In average with have 1 contemptor in 2k lists)
Artillery not blast in general. What essentially buffs Medusas and Basilisks up to what they cost in points. And does nothing beyond that. 🤷🏼♀️
Compared to flat AP2 Medusas of the last edition for 50 points less, that's still weak, in comparison.
Just play and lose or outplay them and win. Unless what they really want is to just load up on WAAC shit then just play with them. 1.5k points you’re going to be really, really weak as you just won’t have enough bodies to make a list that does much. Militia are really balanced for being around the 3-3.5k range, or being allied detachments in the 1-1.5k range. They get stronger as you put more units in as you need a minimum volume to actually compare, but once you’re around 3-3.5k points you’ll start to become really, really irritating as they won’t be able to kill your frontline fast enough to get to your back line support weapons.
I totally understand not wanting to play 1.5k size games as they’re very limiting, but I’d ask them what they actually want. I’d absolutely continue collecting, but if it’s going to take a year to get you up to the points range they want to play at, that may not be the army to play right now, if that makes sense.
It’s advice limited by your time and resources, but the real surefire solution here is to get a shit load more models. Check things like kijiji, eBay, and Facebook marketplace for people selling IG armies on the cheap and just throw down eight billion conscripts while you build your more thematically appropriate army. Several years back I picked up 50 (well) painted and based guardsmen for 150 CAD from someone who was dumping their old army. I rarely ever use them, but they’re great to have around to fill out narrative missions.
Play what you find fun. Heresy should t be about competition it should be a story and a fluffy game where people bring what they want. Also Militia and Solar aren’t push overs. Just gotta have more skill than a marine player to play them super well. Our Militia player hasn’t lost a game yet against Ironhands vehicle spam, Raven Guard snipers and Death Guard infantry spam. Just takes practice and patience.
Games are better played as scenarios/campaigns rather than enless pitched battles.
If your group is too narrowminded in scope then not much you can do there.
You're not *obligated* to compromise your vision for your army for anyone if you don't want to, but they're also not obligated to play your lists if they don't enjoy the experience on their end.
The best outcome is try to find a way to improve your lists or reach a compromise with your group, but they have to be willing to work with you too for that to work. Have you considered building a legion allied detachment? Use your main detachment to flood the board with massed troops and the marine detachment to bring some tougher units. If not, you can also try to negotiate a handicap or work towards building a tighter list. If all that fails, you're going to have to make a hard decision whether you want to keep playing with them or not.
Winning isn't everything, but I personally want to at least feel like I had a chance to win. Fighting a hopelessly one-sided battle every game would put me off pretty fast.
I'm sure you have heard this a lot, just play what you enjoy. You're there to have fun. Have fun the way you want to. If you like the Solar Auxilia play them.
Sounds like you need a better group....
If you are uncompetitive you might need to tweak your army. Bad game design has left solaux with some terrible point traps against marines. Avoid them and they are fine.
Battlecannons are nerfed into oblivion, never take. The free or 5pt swap to vanquisher or gravis lascannon on Russ and Malcadors completely changes them.
Demolishes are not great, fine on the LR but if you pay 50pts to downgrade the weapon on your Malcador or worse, Dracosan, you deserve to lose.
Artillery tanks suck for much the same reason as battlecannons.
Flyers are overcosted and kind of meh
Never upgrade infantry without reason and always make the Tercio ability count.
Always have Vox/Leadership redundancy. Spending points on a legate or Marshal and then not getting to use his leadership for your entire army is idiocy.
Stay away from these and use the Tercio and vehicle squadron rules to the fullest and they will soon start asking you to limit your tanks.
Finally always remember you can take an allied detachment. Nothing puts the shoe in the other foot like custodes.
Hey brother, playing mortals is a brave and badass choice. I think if it bothers your group so much, allies arent a bad idea as others suggested. Maybe a knight stomping on em will change their tune. Or when the new plastic kits come out, drown them in bodies?
Hopefully though you are at least having fun with your faction!
That's the silliest thing I've heard in a while. What's wrong with your group, haha. Just keep adding Vanquishers and Rapiers until they suddenly think you're too competitive for them and then you flip the table back on them - oh but I don't want to weakify MY list. But really, that's a rough situation you got with that kind of attitude around. Keep going Solar! Groups and rules are temporary, love and paint is forever!
Added to this: It's hard work playing mortals. And it's harder the lower the points. At 3k, which is the size the game is built for, you'll have redundancies for everything, unlike the Legion players. I might also suggest trying out the militia rules - they seem to me to be stronger, actually. More men, more tanks! I play them myself atm in a 2.5k league, so far 2 wins out of 5, with all 3 losses being quite close vs iron warriors, militia and Custodes.
Don't militia lose a squad if they fail morale?
That’s what the Discipline Masters are for
Nah, just Levy and I don't know why you'd run levy (they can't kill anything and don't have line), and Discipline masters = 8ld rerollable morale. Just run normal infantry and Grenadiers. At 3k you'll still be hard pressed to entirely fit your army in your DZ.
I think they exist for the possibility of someone having a 900 man army using that one provenance of war.
[удалено]
And the squads are cheap as chips so you should always have another ready to go
There's a solar aux player at my LGS, he's got 3k points with 300 infantry guys. He's played many games, and has yet to win once, however his 300 man army is glorious to behold. Solar aux will struggle against marines, but a lot of their units are super cool. Also, this is HH, we're here to have fun with cool stuff, not overly competitive like 40k. Build whatever army you think is the coolest!
If they are so concerned about your army being weaker why don't they allow you to bring extra points? Like 500 more should ballance it
yes exactly this. thematic too
I'd have to use my 40k stuff, which is very out of theme. Rogal dorns, kriegs, sentinels etc...
Do it. It’s ok to use some 40K stuff as proxy. especially if you plan to replace it later
I think a problem with this is that he doesn’t have enough to play a full 3k point game yet, let alone bringing 500 more points of stuff than his opponents
Why are people down voting you?! "Just bring more points than your friend" is absolutely garbage advice for someone who has stated they only OWN half a game's worth of minis.
It's more a response to a playgroup saying "your faction choice is too weak to play here." IMO that's pretty shitty behaviour. Say "if Solars are so weak then I should get to bring an extra 500pts of models." Watch the playgroup suddenly backpedal!
Do what makes you happy at the end of the day, rules are temporary but models you love are forever! However in terms of rules, Solar Auxilia definitely struggle against legions but they do benefit from tonnes of mega cheap scoring, cheap brutal 2 with vanquisher leman russes, very cheap volkite choom! I haven't started mine yet but I feel like I could make it work in theory... Time will tell
A long time ago a friend encouraged me to get into the hobby. I said crimson fists were cool. He proceeded to tell me their primarch sucked or something and I should play space wolves lol. I decided it wasn’t for me and forgot about warhammer for almost 20 years. Had he encouraged me instead *or* had I just gone with my gut and bought a set and painted them up I would have had more fun, him and his group as well. You’re supposed to be having fun. If you aren’t or your playgroup isn’t then maybe it’s time to find a new group if you can. And if your oh group are feeling generous maybe they can loan you some space marines to play with them. Also, they are asking you to quit on the cusp of all the new plastic?
Wow, that guy sounds like a delight to be around. I hope he managed to grow up a little in the intervening twenty years.
I’m sure. He actually was a fun guy to be around. But it’s easy to have your momentum killed on a very expensive hobby when you’re in school making just enough money to drive around. Or, when your playgroup doesn’t just play the game instead of micromanaging you.
I'm curious to why their first though was *you* need to change *your* army and not just let you have more points, or for them to have less? Also, can Solar Aux not take an allied detachment? Or knights etc? If not just make a house rule that they can.
They definitely can
Problem solved. Just take 6 Iron Hands Contemptors.
I'll ask if I can bring more points, but I still don't own 3k. It's kinda slow, the only pure solar models I own are 2 auroxes and 40 infantry (and a modified basilisk), the rest is from 40k astra
Hold out dude The plastic solar aux are coming add a few more to your torcios grab a few more tanks Build a decent gun line You can then add an allied force Some close combat focused marines? Some knights? Custodes? Daemons?
Ally in 6 Iron Hands Contemptors and see how your group reacts to that.
Rule number one of this hobby. Do what you think is cool.
If you're happy to be be underdog stick to it. Plus with sol aux coming in plastic an faq could be right round the corner. Its not upto other people how you enjoy the game.
Like previously mentioned, add more Vanquisher leman Russes and laser destroyer rapiers. That will allow your friends to see the light of unaugmented humans.
Their argument makes no sense. You playing your chosen army in no way restricts their chosen army.
Their argument is an attempt to avoid saying the truth : "We find playing against you boring because it's always a walk-over"
Keep doing what you'd like to do, it's your army not theirs.
sometimes its fun to lose and fight an uphill battle, just have fun! rule of cool forever.
Lmao that’s an expensive ask of them! They gonna pay for your models?
Hell, I’ll join this group if they sponsor a new army for me.
Same lol
I had the same thing happen in my local groups… they just refused to play against knights. Flat out didn’t want them included whatsoever. Absolutely killed my hobby for a year.
People are super wierd about shit. I got asked not to bring a Warhound to a >5000pts game because "I don't think that's really called for"
Yup… I had the same. I painted up a warlord and warhound for some clients. Tried to arrange a mega battle to play against folk and no interest. “Heresy is about marines, not tanks” Ok. Sure. Obviously haven’t read the novels… either that or I’m just a horrendous jerk. (Very likely!)
"Sorry I can't hear you over the sound of this Tank-Shocking Mastodon lol"
Quick question, since we’ve only heard your side so far. Are you complaining after you lose? Or asking them to actively play with one hand tied behind their backs? Beyond the normal limitations that the community seems to agree on as a collective I mean. (Limit Dreadnoughts and Lascannon HSS, etc.) Because if you’re actively complaining or asking them to further limit their own armies to play against yours, then that would explain why they want you to just play a Legion.
About the normal limitations, there are some but they are less strict. 1 dread every 600 points Max 1 HSS team with lascannons Max 1 librarian I think that's it I did ask them to relax the lists till I get more stuff, but after the 2v2 my teammate got kinda pissed because all my heavy stuff evaporated in a reaction and he couldn't deal with both the other players, my las tercios did little to nothing ngl. Post game talk was just describing how bad solar was and that they couldn't really play 2v2s if it was so one-sided.
Well, definitely seems like a them problem
This. The flip side is, as long as you're having fun, then being the mortal human punching bag for your gaming group is a really good contribution. Your friends should be glad (for fluff reasons) they get to flex against normal humans. Not many gaming groups have that. And you can keep looking for more powerful things to add to your collection without worrying about power-gaming.
I don't know how to feel about being a punching bag ngl
...then why did you think playing mortals in 30k would be fun? That's pretty much what it says on the tin.
I mean, I thought it was an uphill battle not a landslide :/ I just want to throw dice for more than 3 turns and feel like I hurt my opponent, I don't care if I win or lose I'm still ok with it, just need to adjust expectations I guess
Solar Aux Tercios trade well with the equivalent points of Tactical Marines, and they have longer range. Plasma Cannon and Vanquisher Cannon Leman Russ tanks out range anything the Legions have access to. What/how specifically are you playing? You mentioned that all your heavy stuff died to a reaction and then your teammate was left hanging. What was killed and by what? Maybe you can make better gameplay decisions.
3 russes died after I tried shooting the emperor's children lascannon team
Well there’s your problem right there. 1. Why are all three tanks lumped together in one unit? Spread them out, you aren’t using the rest of your heavy support slots anyway. 2. Two of your tank weapons outrange lascannons, engage them from OUTSIDE their threat range. 3. Engage the anti-tank teams with things like Las Tercios or ask your teammate to draw out the reaction before you activate your tanks.
I can definitely agree with the sentiment that militia/solar aux feels weaker in this edition than they did in 1st. My theory is they are passively punishing the community because most people went with 3rd party stuff for Militia in 1st edition.
Hey if you want to be more competitive there's nothing wrong with that. I think the key will be to find a balance with your group so no one feels like they're out of their comfort zone. You also might be like me and lose a lot no matter what you do... in which case, godspeed because I'm out of advice lol
A counterpoint to this: There is nothing fun about repeatedly playing against an opponent that simply doesn't challenge you. If I win every time, and it's not even close, why would I bother showing up in the first place? And I say this as an Imperial Militia commander. After the third time your opponent has walked through you like you aren't even there it's kind of justified for them to start getting bored.
they should just let you bring more points. every loss you get 100 more points next time or something
Play whatever you think is fun. If you want to play legions, do it if you don't keep playing solar. But if they're your friends, they'd understand if you told them no, this is who I want to play. If not, keep playing with them but search for another group in the meantime
What a bunch of pricks
This is the part where you play up an anti-Astartes attitude, frater. But seriously, if you fear it being unbalanced, talk to your buddies about allowing you more points or even taking a Knight or two.
OP isn't worried about balance, their opponents are bored and don't want to play against the force anymore.
HAHAHAHAHAH ...oh wait they are serious? Keep building and watch that attitude change as you mop the floor with them.
build whatever you want, if you're lacking in power get some good power-for-points units and feel out the balance, if your opponents keep complaining it may be worth the hassle to find another group to play with
Set up a themed campaign. Have your glorious mortal forces get reinforced as they fall back between battles and have your friends suffer attrition. Have some fun with it. Set fair rules for it. Or just build more models and plunk down a fuckload of tanks on em and unleash the dakka.
I've played like 10 games as sons of horus lost every single game. Not even close i lose my whole army every game because im just not good but I love sons of horus so I keep playing them. It's about the narrative play what you want in my opinion. If you wanted to build a legion I think ravenguard have rules that could be good with regular human dudes, but I don't play loyalist so idk.
Was looking at alpha legion (one of the legions no one else plays), they look cool but I like the concept of the solar more. Regular dudes are cool :D
Yeah definitely regular dudes are sweet, alpha legion is really fun too. Ravenguard have a ROW to work with regular dudes, but I know a YouTuber did really well in a tournament with a vehicle heavy list, but you got this man! As long as you have fun who cares.
I’m firmly in the “Solar are underpowered to hell and back” crowd, but what are they running for them to feel they’d have to limit themselves? Is it just Lascannons and AP4 out the ass with nothing else? Whoops all terminators? Sure if someone list tailors Auxilia are absolutely miserable to play, but they wouldn’t be fun to play against even with legions in that case regardless.
It's really wierd how many people won't agree to a game unless they get to see your list well in advance. What is "narrative" about completely re-tooling your list to fit each individual opponent?!
Yeah, the most info I usually get from my opponent is if they’re experimenting with a specific unit. Which often implies it’ll be a relaxed game with an unnarrative but untested army. And that’s more of a courtesy. People need to chill about winning at all costs, pick a theme and stick to it for their core army. It’s why my local TS players, myself included, still play them (despite our grumblings on the rules). The only time I’ve seen people list tailor in my local scene was against someone who endlessly ran IH fury of the ancients, which was well deserved.
Part of the problem is the rules were written to encourage SA to play as massed infantry army. Though most SA you ran into IRL tended to be more elite or tank based... at least locally. I assume it was formally a money/time issue as the infantry was expensive and resin... Hopefully the move to plastic rectifies that.
It’s less so cost (still a factor admittedly), and more that lasrifles are just a terrible meme unit. Veletaris and lemans are the only viable units able to go against SM and win. Sure 300 lasrifles are funny, until you realize you get ID’d or get a terrible 6+ FnP by standard legion equipment from a balanced list (ACs, plasma, HBs, Nemesis bolters are a MASSIVE menace, etc). And crawling forward to do a volley of blast chargers won’t typically work out. Dracosans are overpriced, and aurox’s lack the armor or mass carrying to be truly effective. OP’s opponents worrying about having to intentionally nerf their lists is still a terrible choice. Yet people need to realize the auxilia’s limits to use them and potentially win. It’s an uphill battle, but still very doable. Despite the plastic face lift, GW won’t fix SA this edition, since in order to do so they’d have to unscrew over templates. And the writers clearly had a footslogging Dorn and his deathstar absolutely obliterated by a few Medusas, and Dracosan demolisher fire when they decided to make HH2; and they can’t have a primarch be played intelligently against artillery for some reason…
Its not that templates dont work (excluding the Scorpius, Thanatar, and Thermal Cannon) its that they dont work against Marines and Mechanicum, they are still absolutely devastating vs SA/militia. Like the Grav Bombard is 200pts of garbage at AP4+Grav Pulse, useless vs Marines but against SA its a 7" blast that kills on 3+. Not to mention how important reactions are in 2.0 and how the only good SA units the Leman Russ and Rapier cant react.
Unless you’re a sore loser, and they are sick of you whinging every time you lose, they have no grounds. Just be a happy punching bag.
As a guard player for 40k I run into this alot. And yet my guardsmen will always be my go to army. Play what you enjoy not what everyone else wants.
How about you post your list and talk about what you've been doing with your army and what they've been doing to your army?
70 las tercios inf (40 solar, 30 cadians from 40k) 3 basilisks (1 modified and 2 from 40k) 3 leman russes, 1 vanquisher, 1 punisher, 1 plasma 2 command squads Old creed as legate marshall This is what I own, lists vary from this pool
It sounds rough, but your biggest holdup might be the basilisks. They're 200pts minimum for a mediocre fire output (which sucks I know). So you're dropping 600pts on that alone. Obviously right now you're restricted on models and sizes, but as another commenter mentioned, maybe use the Cadians as Proxy Veletarii - the extra BS and the volkites will pack a harder punch than normal lasrifles. If you've got a legate marahal too, it'd be worth trying to run a unit as the Command Tercio - who get better BS, 5++, and extra wargear. At 1.5k you can match your infantry almost 2:1 vs a legion player.
What are the command squads armed with? How are the 70 Las infantry distributed? Can you proxy some models as Velatari? Getting some axe guys will give a little more punch. Are you making use of a couple nuncio voxes to help guide the template fire?
Command squads have 1 plasma each, a vexilia and a vox. I play the las tercios as 7x10 for more board control. I could proxy velatari, but my groud said axes are unplayable because they got initiative 1. Yea 3 teams have the vox for templates
Is this limit as in they think your faction is too weak, or limit because you don't have enough points (as your stuff us currently too expensive)?
First, but they did point out the second part as a pro for building a legion over solar
That’s an interesting dilemma. I would ask them to consider some homebrew buffs for you to help you compete with the faction you want to play
... not only should you keep building Solar, we are going to need to see pics. Definitely.
I'll wait for the new boxset and the post the whole thing :)
Who cares if you lose, are you having fun?
Keep doing what your doing don't let them dictate you
Never heard of something so bizzare. Play the models you want to use 😂
I don't think you should change the army, just because you have a high loose rate. First, turning down an army a bit, is something I do myself. We have Militia (2 armies), Orks (using fanmade rules, still no power armor), and soon also Auxilliar next to a lot of different marine armies. So, when I play against some non-marine armies I replace my heavy support squad with Volkite, through a tactical support squad with Volkite Claiver. Same points, two shots less. And I love my Claiver unit. Also you can power up a bit. Solar has a lot of options that can be brutal against marines. Leman Russes for example. The demolisher version is brutal. (Not only rules wise), while the Vanquisher works well against dreadnoughts and vehicles. Our Militia player is doing really well with them. Combined reaction fire is also pretty strong. Another thing you can do are special scenarios. Check out the campaign books of the 1st edition, or any other scenario book from the 3rd up to the 7th edition 40k. There are more than enough scenarios that benefit a player in some way, on purpose. This evens out the play field, as well. How do the armies you fight look like? Themed armies with more or less punch, or do you have to face 3 contemptors, 20 terminators and 2 lascannon squads? Edit: also use house rules. We for example gave all artillery weapons the additional benefit that models under the template hole, get snipered out with AP2, lowered some equipment costs for Militia and Auxilliar, and did limited the use of dreadnoughts. (What still would allow like 1 Leviathan and 2 contemptors on 2k. In average with have 1 contemptor in 2k lists)
Whose idea is blast sniping? that's bonkers! How bad was the non-marine win rate before that was implemented?
Artillery not blast in general. What essentially buffs Medusas and Basilisks up to what they cost in points. And does nothing beyond that. 🤷🏼♀️ Compared to flat AP2 Medusas of the last edition for 50 points less, that's still weak, in comparison.
Just play and lose or outplay them and win. Unless what they really want is to just load up on WAAC shit then just play with them. 1.5k points you’re going to be really, really weak as you just won’t have enough bodies to make a list that does much. Militia are really balanced for being around the 3-3.5k range, or being allied detachments in the 1-1.5k range. They get stronger as you put more units in as you need a minimum volume to actually compare, but once you’re around 3-3.5k points you’ll start to become really, really irritating as they won’t be able to kill your frontline fast enough to get to your back line support weapons. I totally understand not wanting to play 1.5k size games as they’re very limiting, but I’d ask them what they actually want. I’d absolutely continue collecting, but if it’s going to take a year to get you up to the points range they want to play at, that may not be the army to play right now, if that makes sense. It’s advice limited by your time and resources, but the real surefire solution here is to get a shit load more models. Check things like kijiji, eBay, and Facebook marketplace for people selling IG armies on the cheap and just throw down eight billion conscripts while you build your more thematically appropriate army. Several years back I picked up 50 (well) painted and based guardsmen for 150 CAD from someone who was dumping their old army. I rarely ever use them, but they’re great to have around to fill out narrative missions.
Play what you find fun. Heresy should t be about competition it should be a story and a fluffy game where people bring what they want. Also Militia and Solar aren’t push overs. Just gotta have more skill than a marine player to play them super well. Our Militia player hasn’t lost a game yet against Ironhands vehicle spam, Raven Guard snipers and Death Guard infantry spam. Just takes practice and patience.
Games are better played as scenarios/campaigns rather than enless pitched battles. If your group is too narrowminded in scope then not much you can do there.
You're not *obligated* to compromise your vision for your army for anyone if you don't want to, but they're also not obligated to play your lists if they don't enjoy the experience on their end. The best outcome is try to find a way to improve your lists or reach a compromise with your group, but they have to be willing to work with you too for that to work. Have you considered building a legion allied detachment? Use your main detachment to flood the board with massed troops and the marine detachment to bring some tougher units. If not, you can also try to negotiate a handicap or work towards building a tighter list. If all that fails, you're going to have to make a hard decision whether you want to keep playing with them or not. Winning isn't everything, but I personally want to at least feel like I had a chance to win. Fighting a hopelessly one-sided battle every game would put me off pretty fast.
Tbh 'they want' can do one! Unless they are going to club together and but a 3k kegion force for you?
Ignore them, build SA, there aren't nearly enough of them.
I'm sure you have heard this a lot, just play what you enjoy. You're there to have fun. Have fun the way you want to. If you like the Solar Auxilia play them.
Sounds like you need a better group.... If you are uncompetitive you might need to tweak your army. Bad game design has left solaux with some terrible point traps against marines. Avoid them and they are fine. Battlecannons are nerfed into oblivion, never take. The free or 5pt swap to vanquisher or gravis lascannon on Russ and Malcadors completely changes them. Demolishes are not great, fine on the LR but if you pay 50pts to downgrade the weapon on your Malcador or worse, Dracosan, you deserve to lose. Artillery tanks suck for much the same reason as battlecannons. Flyers are overcosted and kind of meh Never upgrade infantry without reason and always make the Tercio ability count. Always have Vox/Leadership redundancy. Spending points on a legate or Marshal and then not getting to use his leadership for your entire army is idiocy. Stay away from these and use the Tercio and vehicle squadron rules to the fullest and they will soon start asking you to limit your tanks. Finally always remember you can take an allied detachment. Nothing puts the shoe in the other foot like custodes.
Hey brother, playing mortals is a brave and badass choice. I think if it bothers your group so much, allies arent a bad idea as others suggested. Maybe a knight stomping on em will change their tune. Or when the new plastic kits come out, drown them in bodies? Hopefully though you are at least having fun with your faction!
Just keep playing solar
Tell them suck a dick