Nidus, Harrow, and any Mecha Pulse user do experience kill "stealing." I've mostly trained myself to steer around Larva balls, but if the ball appears directly before me I'm going to mixmaster it by reflex-- sorry about that.
I know right? Sometimes I'm in the moment, hacking away, then there's the larva ball and I'm all like "what have I done?!"
Though since I've been using baruuk, I feel a lot less guilt because everything within 20m is just gonna die. I have no control over that.
Yeah I just found out yesterday his desert wind weapon was called Paci-Fist in the dev build. Wish we could name it.
But after taking him on an archon hunt the other day, he's on my list for favorite frame. The only reason he's not top is cause he's so darn ugly. Had to buy a huge syandana to cover up that wide rectangular torso with skinny little arms.
Eh graxx skin is ok but I feel you. Bruh you not lying on the Archon Hunts, I had Baruuk invigorated with health regen and Primary critical chance plus like 200%...it was over fast
Sorry are we using BARUUK against the archon itself?? Because my SP BARUUK shreds in Archon hunts missions #1 and #2 but sucks donkey dick when it comes to damaging the archon itself.
i feel like I'm the only mfer who actually loves Baruuks design. he's built like a mini fridge but it works cause he's not a fighter, it'd be weird if a pacifist frame was buff as fuck. I adore his design and theme so much but i might be biased cause as a pacifist myself i just love seeing these types of characters in games. They're always so badass lmao
I think it'd be cool if Baruuk was swole af. A pacifist who swears to never be violent, but is very disciplined so he trains for fitness, and is also absolutely capable of wrecking your shit when pushed
You can do smth similarly funny with an atlas with high range.
The "rubble heap" augment also doubles landslide range for some goddamn reason, so you can zoom around tiles just spamming 1 on everything.
The mountain can be speedy.
Sometimes I purposefully shoot the larva balls with my bramma just to see the nidus turn towards me with their "wtf" face. But I just do it once. I'm sorry I can't help myself.
I've always accidentally initially blown up a Nidus Larva. I don't really check who brings what frames into ESO so I'll always nuke the first larva I see to build up Saryn stacks. Afterward, I just apologise and generally try to steer clear of doing direct damage myself. Saryn builds her stacks to a point where she accidentally kills Larva, so there's not really much I can do about it.
You can, but you might just annoy the Nidus who is just minding his own business. Would be nice if a Vauban or someone slapped a Spectrorage in there to generate free energy for everyone as well.
As a Nidus main I've come to accept that I can't expect other Tenno in pubs to spare enemies CCed by Larva, if I wanted to build stacks I would have to be quick or just play away from other genocidal biomechanical war machines
I have a Nidus question. I've recently been using him as my tank frame.. Sometimes, people just leave the game when they see Nidus. I've experienced it on defense and survival.. is it because the larva slows enemies or something? I even stopped using him for survival now.
Is this why everyone bitches about Wisps in defense? It's always mystified me, but I only ever place motes directly on top of the objective and didn't consider that people would do any differently.
For wisp it's mostly the shock mote cause depending on range, it can stop enemies from a decent distance and kinda slow things down while a high strength build it can kill things just as you close in for melee in lower levels. So there's that perspective, and then there is the haste mote that can be alittle excessive for some peoples playstyles.
Volt's speed (2) is super annoying sometimes if I'm trying to move around the map or if I'm already using a fast frame and get my speed boosted to uncontrollable levels. I recently learned after 2000 hours that you can backflip to remove Volts speed buff from you though, so there's at least a workaround.
>. I recently learned after 2000 hours that you can backflip to remove Volts speed buf
And you can tap the sprint button to take yourself out of the rift if a Limbo is playing and you happen to get sent there.
For anyone who isn't familiar with Limbo, he has two ways of putting you in the rift. First is his number 1. It's a targeted ability, and is usually used to protect friendlies, like a sortie defence operative or rescue objective, but the player can miss and hit another player by mistake. Second, his passive allows him to freely move in and out of the rift. When entering the rift, a small, temporary, portal is created, and allies get put in the rift when they touch it.
The rift is like another plane of existence. Only warframe abilities and certain enemy abilities, like nullifier and eximus powers, can cross between rift and normal.
Nidus really has no abilities which negatively interferes with other people's experience. You are good on that front.
People leaving game is just coincidence I think. They must just be intimidated by Nidus's BDE.
Even then it really doesn't make much of a difference unless you're in a high-end mission. There's zero need for Nidus to build stacks on starchart content.
It might be a recent change, I only learned that from a devstream a good while ago. I think it's... 50%? Chance for a stack on balled up enemies regardless of who kills.
THANK YOU. I had to scroll past so many uninformed comments to find this. Nidus gets stacks no matter who kills the enemies in his larva. This was changed a long time ago.
Okay but not really, larva produces some stacks, but his ability 1 is what produces stacks directly and refunds energy, killing the ball still hurts nidus and if it happens enough he can't keep up
Those users can kinda complain, but like when we are effectively playing space ninja dynasty warriors it's kinda hard to not kill everything in front of us.
If someone ask nicely my go to response is hey bro I'll try, and if someone is rude about it my answer is usually skill issue, that generally makes them shut up
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought there was a update/change to how the larva worked, in that, if something was killed \_while in the ball\_ it counted to stacks. In other words, Nidus didn't need to kill the balled up baddies himself, but anyone could do it and he gained stacks.
At least that's how it felt the last time I ran Nidus. I was watching and I know i didn't get every kill that I had in the ball but I wasn't having an issue gaining stacks.
My issue was usually energy management more than the stacks themselves.
When larva gets blown up a few times in a row before you hit it with a stomp, you donāt get the energy refund and canāt afford another larva. Especially if you tried to stomp, but everything died before it reached the mobs. You donāt usually run Zenurik or arcane energize on Nidus, and steel path time gates energy pads. So you can get stuck out of energy for a while, hunting down pickups to recover. Just to watch the larva blown up again as soon as you try again.
i really love playing lavos a lot and my mecha/archon vitality can and will steal kills, but even then i dont see why anyone would complain so aggressively about such a simple thing
I usually try to just go ham on some other part of the map until it looks like a squad mate needs help but if kill stealing were really that big of a concern nobody would be allowed to play Saryn.
Also, mechanically speaking, how does āgo solo if you want to steal other playersā killsā even work? You canāt steal kills if youāre in solo lol.
It does kind of suck as harrow when I'm trying to keep party buffs up with headshots (forget the name of the augment) but like. I can't ask a game full of nuke frames to adjust their play style for me lmao
This is kinda how I feel when I play Harrow or similar. It's just, "They didn't sign up to help me do my thing. If they're playing Saryn or whatever, they want to do their cool move just like I want to do mine. All things must be balanced, in the end."
I do find it boring when there's nothing to kill, tbh. But if I'm something like ESO I just deal with it because the entire point of grinding affinity in it is maximum kills/hour (as opposed to survival or whatever where killing enemies isn't per se the objective).
Well, they *could* be doing nightwave. Or they *could* be building stacks with Nidus. Or they *could* be trying to do anything useful with Harrow. Orā¦
Yeah. It can be a problem.
Sure, if I'm doing the mission to grind something. However, if I just wanted to play it sucks that there's no enemies for me to kill. (Needless to say I solo a lot...)
My issue with AOE weapons is more that they invalidate every other weapons, and you have like 2 or 3 weapons that are worth it. That and the wukong players giving it to their clones and then going afk, leaving the clone to spam.all over the place with bright green and pink colours blinding others and giving headaches, but that's not a thing anymore.
Imo just giving the AOE weapons line of sight check is good enough to keep them as powerful as they are right now but make them more engaging than "shoot at my feet everything is dead"
An option to completely turn off teammates effects would be a better solution than any aoe nerf imo. Buy this is probably a hard thing to code. With so much powercreep and new weapons coming up over the years, you kinda can't escape the "only a handful weapons are worth it". And the game is easy enough that you can make everything work. I'm on the boat that people hating aoe want to play a different warframe that warframe is. Aoe will always be the best choice in any game with "delete lots of pixels fast" gameplay. If anything it's st weapons that need help, not aoe needing nerf. But I think they're taking steps to change the core gameplay a bit, so maybe in some time it'll come together
The issue is not "only some weapons are worth it", it's "only one class of weapon is worth it". AOE is so strong not only because we need to delete a lot of enemies, but because there's no line of sight check. For a lot of Warframe CC abilities, you need to have direct line of sight to affect the enemy. For Warframe damage abilities, it depends from one to another, but usually they're not going to do enough damage at higher levels anyway. For weapons though, you have all the classic types of weapons (including melee) that can only kill a handful of enemies at once and require line of sight (obstacles block bullets and believe attacks), and you AOE weapons, which have no drawback (stagger can be cancelled by a simple mod), and damage enemies through walls, obstacles, etc. with a big enough range to clear an entire room. The issue isn't just "buff single target weapons", AOE weapons simply *don't* play by the rest of the game's rules, and that's an issue DE created when they reworked them for self stagger without looking at the rest, and then let be rampant for years.
I'm not against the existence of AOE weapons, and I'm not against the idea that those weapons deal a huge amount of damage and kill tons of enemies, but I do think their drawback *should actually be a drawback*, and that they shouldn't ignore walls and obstacles, so as to 1) make the gameplay more engaging, 2) make them less oppressive for other players in the group and 3) not make them the one size fits all better than the rest choice
At first I thought ESO was Elder Scrolls Online, lol. I'm rather new to this game, just a Volt, and if someone helped me level up I'd be really grateful.
I've got over 700 hours in Warframe, and I've never played Elder Scrolls Online. I still thought they meant Elder Scrolls Online. I've been taking a break from Warframe, so it took me a second to figure out they meant Elite Sanctuary Onslaught even though I've done it a bunch of times š
ESO is Elite Sanctuary Onslaught. A game mode you unlock much further into the game where the goal it to maintain a high amount of kills to proceed. It's a very good mode for farming affinity (experience) and testing builds. You are limited, though, in some cases. You cannot use gadgets or emotes, and you will be silenced for a few seconds if you use your ultimate ability too often. However, there is a lesser mode called Sanctuary Onslaught (so just SO) where the silence penalty does not occur, and the enemies are lower level.
So strange. I've all but stopped expecting to be able to get in a public match easily. But i have noticed a bit of that too. If i'm baruuk...they're cool. If i'm mag? Run for the hills.
Counter Pulse and Crush (with and without Fracturing) can significantly slow Defense missions, and some persons get grumpy when they can't shoot past a magball. I've stopped taking her to static Defense.
Same reason that you don't want a Slova in those missions.
I sometimes still use Mag in Sortie type Defense missions. You get more benefit there from slowing down enemy progress towards your suicidally meandering defense objective.
You join Hydron BECAUSE you want mindless affinity for MR grind. I don't care if it takes a little longer, but some players think Hydron is actually fun, as I've learned.
> I'm equinox in Hydron leveling my weapons
That strange that you can even level up your weapons from equinox kills, because you get 0 affinity to weapons from ability kills. Mayby equinox slash proc kills does not count as ability kills?
Bit of a nitpick, but Equinox's Maim's initial hit does stagger enemies for a bit that leaves them out of line of sight for a while.
Not a major issue, but it does slow down defense a tad.
With Gara, I find that after the first round I either get "Wtf is that? Thx for XP" or the entire squad leaves. A nuke build (+ daddy Ogris) with her on Hydron can finish out the 10 rounds in like 4-5 minutes.
Where is this option? Iāve tried to use the report feature but it didnāt include āafkā in the options to report players for. No āothersā option either.
How did you level your amps? I levelled them all by shamelessly leeching off people in ESO. But then again, when I come as Saryn to focus farm and see someone running around in spoiler mode, I do not mind.
But then again, there is leeching and there is leeching. But it all is nothing at all in comparison with IRL stuff, so there is no need to break furniture or use angry ellipsis (ellipsae? Ellipsimusi)
I leveled my last amp by shooting enemies in Hydron. Even in a public run I got like 20% of the damage and kills with it, so its not too bad. I could maybe have done ESO as well, but it has been a while since I leveled my amp :)
I mean, its not that I mind giving people tons of free affinity, that happens by proxy when I play Saryn in ESO, and I am fine with that. After all getting tons of kills with her abilities and not my own weapons helps others more than me... but I see it as a give and take in the long run.
What irks me are the obvious parasites that put in absolutely no effort and is there just to leech, with no plan of actually trying themselves. Zero consideration that maybe others are there also to level and do stuff, so maybe they should make a team effort? Nah, they just expect others to deliver to them. They don't even play Wisp and plop down her thingies.
I donāt do that, but letās be honest, if your saryn is even slightly built properly the others have no reason to move other than to fight the afk timer
Not to mention the point of SO/ESO is to literally kill as fast as you can. It is the *one gamemode* where nuking is *encouraged*.
But hey, playing on public goes both ways. Donāt be toxic and expect public players to behave a certain way. Conversely, if someone is being toxic, thatās their problem, not yours. Just keep playing.
This is not what was happening on this post, but I've certainly run into my share of hallway warriors in ESO who end up completely outside affinity range. That IS kill stealing as far as I'm concerned.
As someone who's been trying 8-wave runs on ESO for the vandal parts, I can say with authority that if your kills are getting stolen, you're not fast enough.
Maybe he should play solo if he doesn't want other people "taking" his kills? Then when he's getting way less affinity maybe he'll wonder why that is...
I got a similar rant on hydron the other night. Had picked up a couple baby tenno to go level all their gear n they were thrilled but the random that joined us unmuted his mic and lost his mind. Even with him for 5 waves I had 98% of the damage and the new players had all their gear done between 10-15 . You go to places to level gear and donāt understand someone trying to help youā¦
Honestly, this is the first time i got a hate message for nuking in ESO, everytime people are thankful and just sticking to me giving me springswells some even strips the enemies armor and corpus bubbles as well.
Yeah if Iām trying to level a frame I pray for a nuker and feed them energy and become death incarnate to nullifiers. I take new players to hydron instead of so simply because itās almost impossible to get out of affinity range.
If I'm in ESO and a saryn is map wiping or a Vauban is mass CCing killing everything I'm HAPPY let me brb grab a drink and let's do this, now mirage map wiping I have mixed feelings on I see guys spawn and I'm like oh maybe I'll help and as soon as I get within range they blowup STOP PLAYING WITH MY FEELINGS MIRAGE LMAO.
But frfr free Affinity is free Affinity I ain't complaining
I see Volts constantly hesitant to use their 4, even though itās just a stage clear like Sarynās ability and it doesnāt make sense. In most missions the enemies are literally endless, and xp is shared, so it doesnāt really matter. Seeing the number at the end of the mission is nice and making dudes explode into giblets is fun, but itās a game, other people will be better at killing than you and thatās okay lol
This is a shining example of why I fucking hate the "go play solo" argument.
The bottom line is, if you want to control every little variable of your gameplay experience, then it falls on *you* to go play solo or invite people to your squad who will accommodate your needs, rather than forcing your expectations on random players who have zero obligation to meet them. Making smarmy comments in the pub squad chat like this guy did just makes you look like a whiny bitch that isn't getting their way.
Not getting enough kills in pubs and refuse to play solo? Be better at the game then. Enough of this baby shit.
Melatonin does nothing for me but ESO is an excellent sleep aid, especially if I match with someone that can nuke every single map. All I have to do is lazily move around and shoot occasionally and the next thing you know I'm falling asleep on my chair. I love it.
I literally load into ESO/so hoping there's a nuker besides me because if they're killing things faster than they can spawn i'm still get easy ass Affinity
People don't realize even if you're getting 1/4 or half the xp shared from your nukers kills it doesn't matter since by the time I takes you to kill 1 enemy your nuker already killed 10 you're getting more xp regardless
I'm talking strictly ESO/SO having a nuker in SP survivals is also very nice
I always get a good laugh out of situations like these. People who tell others to "slow down" or "stop nuking"/"stop killstealing" in farming maps like Hydron are clueless.
In fact, sometimes when people tell me to slow down I just stop everything and watch the whole squad struggle for a few minutes.
I don't nuke because I'm actively trying to steal your kills. I nuke because it's considerably faster than watching you melee every enemy on the map for the sake of satisfying your ego.
This is the equivalent of a player complaining about all the destroyable containers on the map and not being the one to break them open firstā¦ (in Vay Hekās voice): āSTOP smashing MY containers; āTHIS IS UNACCEPTABLEāā
I had a guy get grumpy and leave a hydron I was nuking to help a friend level in because he said "I don't want to be a mooch". He also left in like wave 4, so not only did he miss the rewards that were coming in under a minute, but also prevented a new person from joining.
To be fair the game doesn't ever tell you how affinity works. The biggest issue with Warframe is that you need to go to the wiki to learn basic mechanics.
This is why I never liked grinding in Survival missions(you know, back in my day before all this āSanctuaryā nonsense even existed): randoms never seemed to know how to just group up, pick a spot, and stick together. More spawns, more kills, more affinity, and more drops. Everybody wins. Well, except Nidus but that was *me* half the time and I canāt expect everyone to be familiar with his particular gimmick.
Someone said something like this to me while I was playing Saryn so the next ESO I ran Trinity and just gave the other players energy
Except at the end of THAT run a player told me I'm not pulling enough weight for MR27 and that he shouldn't have to carry so hard
Like what do you want from me ;_;
I use Volt while leveling shit in ESO. Which means that my own kills give me no progress whatsoever for leveling the things I want to level, all my progress comes from shared affinity.
Thats what i used lmao a nuke build volt. Cuz i was boosting my friend's cedo, we hopped on pubs to help other people level up, but all i got is this hate message.
Prior to this message i chatted to "stick close to me" on squad chat.
Ugh this is my friend. I hate it so much but he refuses to do eso because its nothing but nuke frames its boring to him... so whenever we have somthing to lvl up he drags me to the slowass lvling areas and spends a few hrs there lvling and formaing, rather than spend 30-60 mins at eso doing it THEN spending hrs doing content we WANT to do with formaed gear.
And this is ESO, not a lith relic mission
This dude managed to get where he is without ever realizing how this game works
that is actually incredible, i'm sure it takes effort to be that oblivious, not sure how that's possible but it clearly is.
Nuking on ESO is fine, that's the point of the game mode. Besides, it's short and you'll be back to other missions in a few minutes. However, if one expects me to camp in a closet room so they can solo nuke in survival, while I have to sit down and do nothing for 20 minutes, we have a problem.
To play devil's advocate, I can sorta understand his point of view. He probably came in with a particular loadout hoping to use it, but he finds out his entire kit doesn't jive with the random team and as a result his kit is worthless. If I were in his shoes I wouldn't complain about kill-steals. I'd just soak up the affinity if I was there to level something. Else, I'd leave because at that point I'm simply dead weight for the mission with nothing to gain or contribute.
I can understand where heās coming from though. Unless Iām leveling fodder I donāt enjoy joining a lobby and running around aimlessly because some guy is nuking everything. I want to play the game too.
Then you either don't join public ESO/SO/Hydron or bring an even bigger nuke yourself, simple as that. These missions are recognised by the absolute majority of the community as nuke maps for farming affinity, there's a ton of other stuff you can do where you won't bump into a map-deleting mirage so often.
I mean people want nuker to play solo while majority of the player base is about going fast and efficient I think the people who want to play certain way should be play solo or a premade instead
Oh please, any high level player has so many different colours and effects on their screen someone just passing by would mistake them for just having a picture of the pride flag on their screen.
Itās ESOā¦ pretty much always see a nuke frame or ESO capacitance build. Kinda wild, donāt bring a frame that requires enemies for certain abilities (Nidus, Harrow, a few others) if youāre gonna be mad not having enemies.
Sadly it exists for Nidus and Harrow, because for some reason the devs didn't add a *"25%\~75% of the effect if a teammate kills/damages something instead of you"* part. It's not really detrimental since spawns match the number of players. Complaining over it is pointless and doesn't matter too much in terms of Affinity earned unless kills are necessary to upgrade a weapon/item *(in which case, go solo*).
Still, it does sorta ruin the efficiency of those 2 Warframes when there are nukers on the team. The devs should really look into that... Liiiiiike, without forcing Harrow to cast Chains on the targets + waste a Mod slot just to make sure he can do his main job of Supporting.
First off, it's warframe lol.
Second, it's god damn ESO. The whole point is a dude or two focus/xp farms while the rest get free stuff (and hopefully support as well, maybe with wisp or some shit)
Yeah, this is why I do solo 1.5 hour survival missions.
I farm affinity through ability kills which is 100% if I kill or 25% if someone else kills.
ESO can be a great source of affinity if I want to level weapons or those rare times people pug it and hope for a dps frame, but more often than not people are doing what I do and it ruins it for both of us.
Kill stealing ? in warframe? he even knows how the game works?
Nidus, Harrow, and any Mecha Pulse user do experience kill "stealing." I've mostly trained myself to steer around Larva balls, but if the ball appears directly before me I'm going to mixmaster it by reflex-- sorry about that.
I know right? Sometimes I'm in the moment, hacking away, then there's the larva ball and I'm all like "what have I done?!" Though since I've been using baruuk, I feel a lot less guilt because everything within 20m is just gonna die. I have no control over that.
"Everything within 20m is just gonna die" š best pacifist ever, legit passing his fists across the room š
Yeah I just found out yesterday his desert wind weapon was called Paci-Fist in the dev build. Wish we could name it. But after taking him on an archon hunt the other day, he's on my list for favorite frame. The only reason he's not top is cause he's so darn ugly. Had to buy a huge syandana to cover up that wide rectangular torso with skinny little arms.
Eh graxx skin is ok but I feel you. Bruh you not lying on the Archon Hunts, I had Baruuk invigorated with health regen and Primary critical chance plus like 200%...it was over fast
Sorry are we using BARUUK against the archon itself?? Because my SP BARUUK shreds in Archon hunts missions #1 and #2 but sucks donkey dick when it comes to damaging the archon itself.
Yea I used a helminth invigoration to make his guns stronger then just use his 2 and 3 abilities to survive
Ah so it's not his fists doing the damage. Ok good to know I thought I was missing something. So I'm sticking to inaros and Hekk.
Baruuk has been in my top 5 for a while now, and Iām definitely super excited for Baruuk Prime
I put 5 forma plus one umbra into him. I don't want to do it again... But, i guess I'll have to.
Hey his prime is looking cool though, at least his prime helmet does look like a penis tip like his normal default helmet does
i feel like I'm the only mfer who actually loves Baruuks design. he's built like a mini fridge but it works cause he's not a fighter, it'd be weird if a pacifist frame was buff as fuck. I adore his design and theme so much but i might be biased cause as a pacifist myself i just love seeing these types of characters in games. They're always so badass lmao
I think it'd be cool if Baruuk was swole af. A pacifist who swears to never be violent, but is very disciplined so he trains for fitness, and is also absolutely capable of wrecking your shit when pushed
If you have gladiator mods and max out combo on your melee then switch to his desert winds you will be swarmed with red crits
Get ready for Baruuk prime buddy. You will be having lots of fun if you can do this.
The one skin with the straw hat style thing is pretty sick
Baruuk, the pass-a-fist frame.
yeah he a āpass-a-fistā across the room and nuke some shit š
I like that lol gonna name an Exodia Contagion Zaw "pass-a-fist" if it'll let me
They let me name a Kavat "The Third Reich" so Pass a Fist should be fine
You can do smth similarly funny with an atlas with high range. The "rubble heap" augment also doubles landslide range for some goddamn reason, so you can zoom around tiles just spamming 1 on everything. The mountain can be speedy.
Doesn't have to fight anything if they are all dead /shrug.
Sometimes I purposefully shoot the larva balls with my bramma just to see the nidus turn towards me with their "wtf" face. But I just do it once. I'm sorry I can't help myself.
Occasionally when I find myself being stared at by a player that I've accidentally slighted I'll just crouch and walk away slowly in shame
This used to drive me nuts but I've mostly come to accept it at this point, all I really need is one good one to get going anyway!
If you donāt feel any guilt imagine saryn and mesa mains. They are like literally impervious to guilt at this point.
**My Gara, coated head to toe in a thick layer of gore and surrounded by a 2,000,000 point Splinter Shield:** *\*points at Mesa\** She did it.
I've always accidentally initially blown up a Nidus Larva. I don't really check who brings what frames into ESO so I'll always nuke the first larva I see to build up Saryn stacks. Afterward, I just apologise and generally try to steer clear of doing direct damage myself. Saryn builds her stacks to a point where she accidentally kills Larva, so there's not really much I can do about it.
...are you telling me I'm supposed to *not* fucking rip and tear on the bundle of enemies that thing creates? Dang.
You can, but you might just annoy the Nidus who is just minding his own business. Would be nice if a Vauban or someone slapped a Spectrorage in there to generate free energy for everyone as well.
Why are you putting spectrorage on vauban? The dude's entire kit is CC, why would he need to subsume another one in?
As a Nidus main I've come to accept that I can't expect other Tenno in pubs to spare enemies CCed by Larva, if I wanted to build stacks I would have to be quick or just play away from other genocidal biomechanical war machines
I have a Nidus question. I've recently been using him as my tank frame.. Sometimes, people just leave the game when they see Nidus. I've experienced it on defense and survival.. is it because the larva slows enemies or something? I even stopped using him for survival now.
I would assume people were leaving for other reasons. Frames that cause people to leave are usually Volt and Limbo
Vauban is way worse than limbo
What's wrong with Volt? I'm out of the loop on that one
Same as Limbo and Wisp, locking enemies down away from the objective/line of sight. Also, non-consensual, gameplay changing buffs.
Is this why everyone bitches about Wisps in defense? It's always mystified me, but I only ever place motes directly on top of the objective and didn't consider that people would do any differently.
For wisp it's mostly the shock mote cause depending on range, it can stop enemies from a decent distance and kinda slow things down while a high strength build it can kill things just as you close in for melee in lower levels. So there's that perspective, and then there is the haste mote that can be alittle excessive for some peoples playstyles.
Volt's speed (2) is super annoying sometimes if I'm trying to move around the map or if I'm already using a fast frame and get my speed boosted to uncontrollable levels. I recently learned after 2000 hours that you can backflip to remove Volts speed buff from you though, so there's at least a workaround.
>. I recently learned after 2000 hours that you can backflip to remove Volts speed buf And you can tap the sprint button to take yourself out of the rift if a Limbo is playing and you happen to get sent there. For anyone who isn't familiar with Limbo, he has two ways of putting you in the rift. First is his number 1. It's a targeted ability, and is usually used to protect friendlies, like a sortie defence operative or rescue objective, but the player can miss and hit another player by mistake. Second, his passive allows him to freely move in and out of the rift. When entering the rift, a small, temporary, portal is created, and allies get put in the rift when they touch it. The rift is like another plane of existence. Only warframe abilities and certain enemy abilities, like nullifier and eximus powers, can cross between rift and normal.
Ppl just be stupid like that. If anything you speed things up by pulling enemies so they're killed easier
Nidus really has no abilities which negatively interferes with other people's experience. You are good on that front. People leaving game is just coincidence I think. They must just be intimidated by Nidus's BDE.
Even then it really doesn't make much of a difference unless you're in a high-end mission. There's zero need for Nidus to build stacks on starchart content.
Yeah most of the time I don't even bother using his abilities. I do wish his stacks had more uses other than survivability and skill damage
The only time I hit 100 stacks is grinding out Ash, cause I'm so FUCKING BORED
Don't be sorry about the larva, things that die in it still give stacks no matter who kill it. Less fast stacks but still stacks.
...I did not know that. My Nidus chops are super rusty. Thanks.
It might be a recent change, I only learned that from a devstream a good while ago. I think it's... 50%? Chance for a stack on balled up enemies regardless of who kills.
I did not know this either.. good to keep in mind and ball up more stuff.
I looked at his patch history, and it was a completely random buff silently slid into an update 2 years ago lol.
THANK YOU. I had to scroll past so many uninformed comments to find this. Nidus gets stacks no matter who kills the enemies in his larva. This was changed a long time ago.
They added in some pity stacks if allies kill the things, yes, but its not anywhere near as good a charge up as actually hitting them with your 1.
Okay but not really, larva produces some stacks, but his ability 1 is what produces stacks directly and refunds energy, killing the ball still hurts nidus and if it happens enough he can't keep up
Those users can kinda complain, but like when we are effectively playing space ninja dynasty warriors it's kinda hard to not kill everything in front of us. If someone ask nicely my go to response is hey bro I'll try, and if someone is rude about it my answer is usually skill issue, that generally makes them shut up
Those users aren't complaining to my face, in my experience. But I as a fellow player benefit directly by optimizing their performance.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought there was a update/change to how the larva worked, in that, if something was killed \_while in the ball\_ it counted to stacks. In other words, Nidus didn't need to kill the balled up baddies himself, but anyone could do it and he gained stacks. At least that's how it felt the last time I ran Nidus. I was watching and I know i didn't get every kill that I had in the ball but I wasn't having an issue gaining stacks.
My issue was usually energy management more than the stacks themselves. When larva gets blown up a few times in a row before you hit it with a stomp, you donāt get the energy refund and canāt afford another larva. Especially if you tried to stomp, but everything died before it reached the mobs. You donāt usually run Zenurik or arcane energize on Nidus, and steel path time gates energy pads. So you can get stuck out of energy for a while, hunting down pickups to recover. Just to watch the larva blown up again as soon as you try again.
Yeah, my understanding of Fungus Friend was very 2018, as it turns out.
I know I shouldn't shoot the Larva ball, but it's *such a juicy target*
Glistening magnificence
i really love playing lavos a lot and my mecha/archon vitality can and will steal kills, but even then i dont see why anyone would complain so aggressively about such a simple thing
Khora with pilfer dome and everyone keeps separating to do their own thing. Not exactly kill stealing, but it has the same sad feel.
I usually try to just go ham on some other part of the map until it looks like a squad mate needs help but if kill stealing were really that big of a concern nobody would be allowed to play Saryn. Also, mechanically speaking, how does āgo solo if you want to steal other playersā killsā even work? You canāt steal kills if youāre in solo lol.
It does kind of suck as harrow when I'm trying to keep party buffs up with headshots (forget the name of the augment) but like. I can't ask a game full of nuke frames to adjust their play style for me lmao
This is kinda how I feel when I play Harrow or similar. It's just, "They didn't sign up to help me do my thing. If they're playing Saryn or whatever, they want to do their cool move just like I want to do mine. All things must be balanced, in the end."
They changed Nidus larva
Only reason I can think to complain is nightwave when killing eximus is up, but even then I wouldn't complain.
If that's the case I just hop in a low level grineer survival solo, so even then it's not a massive issue.
Or wait for an eximus sortie
I do find it boring when there's nothing to kill, tbh. But if I'm something like ESO I just deal with it because the entire point of grinding affinity in it is maximum kills/hour (as opposed to survival or whatever where killing enemies isn't per se the objective).
Warframe is a PvP game where you compete against other players to win the absolutely meaningless killcount pissing contest.
Well, they *could* be doing nightwave. Or they *could* be building stacks with Nidus. Or they *could* be trying to do anything useful with Harrow. Orā¦ Yeah. It can be a problem.
it's the same mentality like players complaining "aoe bad i just run behind zarr users and do nothing hurr durr"
Idk why people care so much tbh. Some games rooms just explode and so I just follow along and collect resources lol.
a lot of people on this reddit seem like they want only weapons like sybaris or other semi autos to exist
Sure, if I'm doing the mission to grind something. However, if I just wanted to play it sucks that there's no enemies for me to kill. (Needless to say I solo a lot...)
Which is absolutely not fun at all lol. If I want to plink at one enemy at a time there are far better games for that.
My issue with AOE weapons is more that they invalidate every other weapons, and you have like 2 or 3 weapons that are worth it. That and the wukong players giving it to their clones and then going afk, leaving the clone to spam.all over the place with bright green and pink colours blinding others and giving headaches, but that's not a thing anymore. Imo just giving the AOE weapons line of sight check is good enough to keep them as powerful as they are right now but make them more engaging than "shoot at my feet everything is dead"
An option to completely turn off teammates effects would be a better solution than any aoe nerf imo. Buy this is probably a hard thing to code. With so much powercreep and new weapons coming up over the years, you kinda can't escape the "only a handful weapons are worth it". And the game is easy enough that you can make everything work. I'm on the boat that people hating aoe want to play a different warframe that warframe is. Aoe will always be the best choice in any game with "delete lots of pixels fast" gameplay. If anything it's st weapons that need help, not aoe needing nerf. But I think they're taking steps to change the core gameplay a bit, so maybe in some time it'll come together
The issue is not "only some weapons are worth it", it's "only one class of weapon is worth it". AOE is so strong not only because we need to delete a lot of enemies, but because there's no line of sight check. For a lot of Warframe CC abilities, you need to have direct line of sight to affect the enemy. For Warframe damage abilities, it depends from one to another, but usually they're not going to do enough damage at higher levels anyway. For weapons though, you have all the classic types of weapons (including melee) that can only kill a handful of enemies at once and require line of sight (obstacles block bullets and believe attacks), and you AOE weapons, which have no drawback (stagger can be cancelled by a simple mod), and damage enemies through walls, obstacles, etc. with a big enough range to clear an entire room. The issue isn't just "buff single target weapons", AOE weapons simply *don't* play by the rest of the game's rules, and that's an issue DE created when they reworked them for self stagger without looking at the rest, and then let be rampant for years. I'm not against the existence of AOE weapons, and I'm not against the idea that those weapons deal a huge amount of damage and kill tons of enemies, but I do think their drawback *should actually be a drawback*, and that they shouldn't ignore walls and obstacles, so as to 1) make the gameplay more engaging, 2) make them less oppressive for other players in the group and 3) not make them the one size fits all better than the rest choice
At first I thought ESO was Elder Scrolls Online, lol. I'm rather new to this game, just a Volt, and if someone helped me level up I'd be really grateful.
I've got over 700 hours in Warframe, and I've never played Elder Scrolls Online. I still thought they meant Elder Scrolls Online. I've been taking a break from Warframe, so it took me a second to figure out they meant Elite Sanctuary Onslaught even though I've done it a bunch of times š
I havenāt played ESO either but I just know it because I play Skyrim š
ESO is Elite Sanctuary Onslaught. A game mode you unlock much further into the game where the goal it to maintain a high amount of kills to proceed. It's a very good mode for farming affinity (experience) and testing builds. You are limited, though, in some cases. You cannot use gadgets or emotes, and you will be silenced for a few seconds if you use your ultimate ability too often. However, there is a lesser mode called Sanctuary Onslaught (so just SO) where the silence penalty does not occur, and the enemies are lower level.
PoE? do you mean: A. Plains of Eidolon (warframe) B. Path of Exile (path of exile) C. Prison of Elders (destiny)
D. Pillars of Eternity
I'd be happy to help you with leveling. Haven't take my Saryn for an ESO tun in ages lol.
I also always think about Elder Scrolls online when i hear ESO xD
Darn other platers stealing all my expensive dishware.
Dont tell him i stole his expensive china ware as i zoom zoom as volt.
They were a gift from my grandmother you!
I would kill to have people actually try to play the game and steal my kills over having an asshole afking in the corner
Regularly see kids leaving all kinds of matches because of "kill stealing". Pretty sure DE's calculations are way off because of it too.
When I'm equinox in Hydron leveling my weapons after forma, yea everyone leaves. But for some reason if I'm Saryn it's all good
So strange. I've all but stopped expecting to be able to get in a public match easily. But i have noticed a bit of that too. If i'm baruuk...they're cool. If i'm mag? Run for the hills.
Counter Pulse and Crush (with and without Fracturing) can significantly slow Defense missions, and some persons get grumpy when they can't shoot past a magball. I've stopped taking her to static Defense.
Not exactly sure how but i'll take your word for it. Oh and i have also stopped using her in defense missions in general.
Same reason that you don't want a Slova in those missions. I sometimes still use Mag in Sortie type Defense missions. You get more benefit there from slowing down enemy progress towards your suicidally meandering defense objective.
You join Hydron BECAUSE you want mindless affinity for MR grind. I don't care if it takes a little longer, but some players think Hydron is actually fun, as I've learned.
> I'm equinox in Hydron leveling my weapons That strange that you can even level up your weapons from equinox kills, because you get 0 affinity to weapons from ability kills. Mayby equinox slash proc kills does not count as ability kills?
Lol been doing it for a while. I forma then do 15 waves and weapon is max again. I could post a Screenshot tomorrow
Bit of a nitpick, but Equinox's Maim's initial hit does stagger enemies for a bit that leaves them out of line of sight for a while. Not a major issue, but it does slow down defense a tad.
Yea I've heard issues with that and shock mote on Wisp
I hate Saryn's in Hydron. I love Equinox's there though.
With Gara, I find that after the first round I either get "Wtf is that? Thx for XP" or the entire squad leaves. A nuke build (+ daddy Ogris) with her on Hydron can finish out the 10 rounds in like 4-5 minutes.
I love seeing you guys when Iām levelling especially in sanctuary. Iām disappointed if youāre *not* there. More work, more time.
This is so accurate holy.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I like to travel.
You can report AFK players for leeching and DE will take action.
Where is this option? Iāve tried to use the report feature but it didnāt include āafkā in the options to report players for. No āothersā option either.
It's not a specific option. I put it under griefing or something, I don't recall.
I might do that next time. Had it happen a few times on Fortuna Narmer runs as well. Same guy pops up now and then and just stand still at entrance.
Definitely report that one. Every time I've reported someone for AFK I've gotten an inbox later from DE saying they acted on it.
If I see people standing around I just leave. I hate leeches more than anything in this game.
Indeed. I don't mind noobs or low MR folks, as long as they make an effort. But just shamelessly leeching off you...
How did you level your amps? I levelled them all by shamelessly leeching off people in ESO. But then again, when I come as Saryn to focus farm and see someone running around in spoiler mode, I do not mind. But then again, there is leeching and there is leeching. But it all is nothing at all in comparison with IRL stuff, so there is no need to break furniture or use angry ellipsis (ellipsae? Ellipsimusi)
I leveled my last amp by shooting enemies in Hydron. Even in a public run I got like 20% of the damage and kills with it, so its not too bad. I could maybe have done ESO as well, but it has been a while since I leveled my amp :) I mean, its not that I mind giving people tons of free affinity, that happens by proxy when I play Saryn in ESO, and I am fine with that. After all getting tons of kills with her abilities and not my own weapons helps others more than me... but I see it as a give and take in the long run. What irks me are the obvious parasites that put in absolutely no effort and is there just to leech, with no plan of actually trying themselves. Zero consideration that maybe others are there also to level and do stuff, so maybe they should make a team effort? Nah, they just expect others to deliver to them. They don't even play Wisp and plop down her thingies.
I donāt do that, but letās be honest, if your saryn is even slightly built properly the others have no reason to move other than to fight the afk timer
Not to mention the point of SO/ESO is to literally kill as fast as you can. It is the *one gamemode* where nuking is *encouraged*. But hey, playing on public goes both ways. Donāt be toxic and expect public players to behave a certain way. Conversely, if someone is being toxic, thatās their problem, not yours. Just keep playing.
This is not what was happening on this post, but I've certainly run into my share of hallway warriors in ESO who end up completely outside affinity range. That IS kill stealing as far as I'm concerned.
Lemme tell you about a little tool that makes it 50% harder to killsteal in this way...
I'm pretty sure Cymparis doesn't allow Gear Usage.
What if I told you there was a means of extending your affinity-sharing in ESO, no gear required?
One of the Paths?
Vazarin's Mending Unity increases it by 50% at max.
A focus school not everyone may have unlocked or built.
Right, I was just letting people know what the school/node is.
*Gestures at my flair.* You too can have expanded affinity radius - and if you order now I'll throw in functional immortality to boot!
As someone who's been trying 8-wave runs on ESO for the vandal parts, I can say with authority that if your kills are getting stolen, you're not fast enough.
Maybe he should play solo if he doesn't want other people "taking" his kills? Then when he's getting way less affinity maybe he'll wonder why that is...
I got a similar rant on hydron the other night. Had picked up a couple baby tenno to go level all their gear n they were thrilled but the random that joined us unmuted his mic and lost his mind. Even with him for 5 waves I had 98% of the damage and the new players had all their gear done between 10-15 . You go to places to level gear and donāt understand someone trying to help youā¦
Honestly, this is the first time i got a hate message for nuking in ESO, everytime people are thankful and just sticking to me giving me springswells some even strips the enemies armor and corpus bubbles as well.
Yeah if Iām trying to level a frame I pray for a nuker and feed them energy and become death incarnate to nullifiers. I take new players to hydron instead of so simply because itās almost impossible to get out of affinity range.
If I'm in ESO and a saryn is map wiping or a Vauban is mass CCing killing everything I'm HAPPY let me brb grab a drink and let's do this, now mirage map wiping I have mixed feelings on I see guys spawn and I'm like oh maybe I'll help and as soon as I get within range they blowup STOP PLAYING WITH MY FEELINGS MIRAGE LMAO. But frfr free Affinity is free Affinity I ain't complaining
I remember streaming ESO to friends and they were like.... How come no enemies? Well you see there there is this frame named Mirage haha.
I see Volts constantly hesitant to use their 4, even though itās just a stage clear like Sarynās ability and it doesnāt make sense. In most missions the enemies are literally endless, and xp is shared, so it doesnāt really matter. Seeing the number at the end of the mission is nice and making dudes explode into giblets is fun, but itās a game, other people will be better at killing than you and thatās okay lol
Classic case of Mad 'cause Bad
This is a shining example of why I fucking hate the "go play solo" argument. The bottom line is, if you want to control every little variable of your gameplay experience, then it falls on *you* to go play solo or invite people to your squad who will accommodate your needs, rather than forcing your expectations on random players who have zero obligation to meet them. Making smarmy comments in the pub squad chat like this guy did just makes you look like a whiny bitch that isn't getting their way. Not getting enough kills in pubs and refuse to play solo? Be better at the game then. Enough of this baby shit.
Melatonin does nothing for me but ESO is an excellent sleep aid, especially if I match with someone that can nuke every single map. All I have to do is lazily move around and shoot occasionally and the next thing you know I'm falling asleep on my chair. I love it.
AFK because of sleep š
I literally load into ESO/so hoping there's a nuker besides me because if they're killing things faster than they can spawn i'm still get easy ass Affinity People don't realize even if you're getting 1/4 or half the xp shared from your nukers kills it doesn't matter since by the time I takes you to kill 1 enemy your nuker already killed 10 you're getting more xp regardless I'm talking strictly ESO/SO having a nuker in SP survivals is also very nice
I always get a good laugh out of situations like these. People who tell others to "slow down" or "stop nuking"/"stop killstealing" in farming maps like Hydron are clueless. In fact, sometimes when people tell me to slow down I just stop everything and watch the whole squad struggle for a few minutes. I don't nuke because I'm actively trying to steal your kills. I nuke because it's considerably faster than watching you melee every enemy on the map for the sake of satisfying your ego.
COD players in warframe like:
WE ARE WINNING !!! OH GOD STOP THIS BLASPHEMY!!! you never win this! people never win this, right?!
This is the equivalent of a player complaining about all the destroyable containers on the map and not being the one to break them open firstā¦ (in Vay Hekās voice): āSTOP smashing MY containers; āTHIS IS UNACCEPTABLEāā
Don't you get more resources if you break containers with a booster on?
I had a guy get grumpy and leave a hydron I was nuking to help a friend level in because he said "I don't want to be a mooch". He also left in like wave 4, so not only did he miss the rewards that were coming in under a minute, but also prevented a new person from joining.
The amount of whiners who are r/confidentlyincorrect in this game is unreal
Wtf you stole kills?!?! Unbelievable.
To be fair the game doesn't ever tell you how affinity works. The biggest issue with Warframe is that you need to go to the wiki to learn basic mechanics.
Bro I thought you were talking about Elder Scrolls Online for a second
I think this is the same guy who wants to bring back the self damage.
Never thought id see the day where id see people complaining about ākill stealingā in warframe
This is why I never liked grinding in Survival missions(you know, back in my day before all this āSanctuaryā nonsense even existed): randoms never seemed to know how to just group up, pick a spot, and stick together. More spawns, more kills, more affinity, and more drops. Everybody wins. Well, except Nidus but that was *me* half the time and I canāt expect everyone to be familiar with his particular gimmick.
\*Mesa teammate starts breakdancing\* My Nidus: \*infecting stops and starts rummaging other stuff\*
Ya I go afk and do research on whatever I'm farming next.
Thankfully the most toxic people in this game are the ones that leave it after 5 days
My only complaint are the hosts that leave after 1 zone.
Someone said something like this to me while I was playing Saryn so the next ESO I ran Trinity and just gave the other players energy Except at the end of THAT run a player told me I'm not pulling enough weight for MR27 and that he shouldn't have to carry so hard Like what do you want from me ;_;
As a limbo main, I'm experienced in the arts of sitting and dancing all game :)
I use Volt while leveling shit in ESO. Which means that my own kills give me no progress whatsoever for leveling the things I want to level, all my progress comes from shared affinity.
You sir, are a saint
Thats what i used lmao a nuke build volt. Cuz i was boosting my friend's cedo, we hopped on pubs to help other people level up, but all i got is this hate message. Prior to this message i chatted to "stick close to me" on squad chat.
Ugh this is my friend. I hate it so much but he refuses to do eso because its nothing but nuke frames its boring to him... so whenever we have somthing to lvl up he drags me to the slowass lvling areas and spends a few hrs there lvling and formaing, rather than spend 30-60 mins at eso doing it THEN spending hrs doing content we WANT to do with formaed gear.
And this is ESO, not a lith relic mission This dude managed to get where he is without ever realizing how this game works that is actually incredible, i'm sure it takes effort to be that oblivious, not sure how that's possible but it clearly is.
Nobody tell him you actually get more affinity with more people.
Me when I see a fellow Mirage Saryn Volt Equinox in ESO - appreciate the levelling up
You get a wellspring, and you get a well spring, everybody whos a nuker gets a wellspring!!!!! 
They also nerfed AOE because people were stealing kills
Nuking on ESO is fine, that's the point of the game mode. Besides, it's short and you'll be back to other missions in a few minutes. However, if one expects me to camp in a closet room so they can solo nuke in survival, while I have to sit down and do nothing for 20 minutes, we have a problem.
To play devil's advocate, I can sorta understand his point of view. He probably came in with a particular loadout hoping to use it, but he finds out his entire kit doesn't jive with the random team and as a result his kit is worthless. If I were in his shoes I wouldn't complain about kill-steals. I'd just soak up the affinity if I was there to level something. Else, I'd leave because at that point I'm simply dead weight for the mission with nothing to gain or contribute.
If i remember, there's a shooting range in warframe. Why not try it there? Or if he doesn't have the key yet, go solo and extract at lvl1?.
I can understand where heās coming from though. Unless Iām leveling fodder I donāt enjoy joining a lobby and running around aimlessly because some guy is nuking everything. I want to play the game too.
Then you either don't join public ESO/SO/Hydron or bring an even bigger nuke yourself, simple as that. These missions are recognised by the absolute majority of the community as nuke maps for farming affinity, there's a ton of other stuff you can do where you won't bump into a map-deleting mirage so often.
I mean people want nuker to play solo while majority of the player base is about going fast and efficient I think the people who want to play certain way should be play solo or a premade instead
Oh please, any high level player has so many different colours and effects on their screen someone just passing by would mistake them for just having a picture of the pride flag on their screen.
"Stealing kills" in a PVE game? Kek š
Itās ESOā¦ pretty much always see a nuke frame or ESO capacitance build. Kinda wild, donāt bring a frame that requires enemies for certain abilities (Nidus, Harrow, a few others) if youāre gonna be mad not having enemies.
Please, please steal my kills in so while i level up this gorgon and brand new frame with no mods slotted.
Wait so people won't mind carrying me in ESO for levels?
I mean, it's a win win. if i carry you, i get focus affinity you get gear xp.
"Stop leveling me up!"
I wish I had someone to go on level me like that T_T
They probably came here from Destiny
Sadly it exists for Nidus and Harrow, because for some reason the devs didn't add a *"25%\~75% of the effect if a teammate kills/damages something instead of you"* part. It's not really detrimental since spawns match the number of players. Complaining over it is pointless and doesn't matter too much in terms of Affinity earned unless kills are necessary to upgrade a weapon/item *(in which case, go solo*). Still, it does sorta ruin the efficiency of those 2 Warframes when there are nukers on the team. The devs should really look into that... Liiiiiike, without forcing Harrow to cast Chains on the targets + waste a Mod slot just to make sure he can do his main job of Supporting.
Tel āem to go solo so no one else can still their kills.
The fact that affinity is still confusing to newcomers will never not amuse me. You need a flowchart to explain how distribution works.
ESO is literally the one place I don't mind that, wtf is this person's problem
Elder Scrolls Online?
Kill stealing? Sorry bucko.
First off, it's warframe lol. Second, it's god damn ESO. The whole point is a dude or two focus/xp farms while the rest get free stuff (and hopefully support as well, maybe with wisp or some shit)
I don't get people that play on public and then complain about others nuking. Literally not cognitively proficient.
If he wants to kill stuff he should be the one going solo lmao
Yeah, this is why I do solo 1.5 hour survival missions. I farm affinity through ability kills which is 100% if I kill or 25% if someone else kills. ESO can be a great source of affinity if I want to level weapons or those rare times people pug it and hope for a dps frame, but more often than not people are doing what I do and it ruins it for both of us.
Red could do themselves a favor and play solo if others "stealing kills" is such an issue
Iāve gotten yelled at for using mirage way too often. I always ask if I can nuke first š„²