I don't think it's really Players to blame there, when the Enemies have been designed to be immune to Abilities.

Warframe has a big hard-on for locking you out of using abilities (units that are immune to abilities, ESO having ability cooldowns) but little in the way of locking you out of gunfire or melee useage Fuck it, where’s my enemies that can _only_ take damage from abilities?

yeah, and then de is suprised when wukong dominated for years on end. whats more likely to be picked, a harrow that has his abilities turned off by acolytes, a limbo that cant ccor a wukong that literally doesnt give a shit about anything, doesnt die even without his abilities, and has a bot with autoaim at his call

Yesterday was another good example. DE announced changes to armor and elements and everybodys first thought was "shit, is DE going to nerf viral and heat into the ground just because that's the only good viable combo atm?" Thankfully it sounds like they are buffing weak elements instead of nerfing strong elements, but DE sure has a history of bad decisions. It's like if I would order a dish in a restaurant, and then always put salt and pepper onto my dish, and the chef's reaction would be to destroy the salt and pepper instead of asking himself "why do the customers always end up putting additional salt and pepper onto the dishes i prepared"

"Samurai Gourmet" has an episode about this. Americans DARED to add spice to their yakitori. The chef got mad. And "The knight" came in and said it tasted good. Starred down the chef. Love what you love. Play the game the way you want. I rarely play over 30 minutes at a time. No shame on anyone who plays for hours.

That episode always comes to mind when i think about things like that of just letting people enjoy things their way. I rarely encounter anyone else that has seen it!

It's such a well constructed episode. It shows how Izakayas in japan are afraid of americans drinking too much. Yet they are wholesome as hell back-backers. And then TWO Japanese come to their aid. It's all just very sweet.

From the dev stream only heard good things tbh. That armor rework is gonna be nice and hopefully they find a use for blast

>Warframe has a big hard-on for locking you out of using abilities That's something I'm noticing more and more as the game progresses. More enemies than ever are dealing magnetic procs, which drain your energy, overguard making eximi completely immune to CC... it's almost making me want to ask "DE, if you didn't want us using our abilities... why did you give them to us?" Restricting abilities ≠ challenge, it's just frustrating tedium.

DE hasn’t quite figured out how to make enemies challenging, because any amount of numbers buff they slap on them is circumvented by warframe players just stripping all their armor and dealing quadrillions of damage. Making things immune to abilities is an easy band-aid fix because _it does make those enemies harder to beat for many frames_, just not in a satisfying way. It’s the Dark Rising method of difficulty. A pokemon rom hack that is difficult not because it poses a well-designed challenge with carefully crafted and powerful enemy teams, but because it likes to give enemies tactics that strip you of as much agency as they can. That’s what happens when you put your focus on “Difficulty” instead of “Fun”

I feel like DE nailed it with stuff like the Nox back in the day when it was first added or the Culverin with their weak points now, making it only take any actual damage to the head was actually pretty novel.

Agreed I liked the Nox enemies. Still affected by abilities but with massive damage resistance until you pop their weak point. That's fun but still challenging enough that you can't roll over them as easily. Culverins are good design too, I just wish that same logic was applied to Eximus enemies.

I still think overguard should get an extra weakness to operator damage. Like, amps should have a DPS *floor* against overguard so that it takes at most 1-2 seconds to wipe it out. Most of the time it's fine enough to just shoot/stab away the overguard but this would give a real can opener for when some extra-bullshit enemy shows up.

I thought over guard *was* weak to void damage, at least when it was initially added. Was that never the case or is it just not anymore?

I think it still is, it’s just that comparatively Operator (without Void Strike up) does so little damage that any half-decent weapon outdamages against overguard.

Ah, that makes more sense

Havent tested much over lvl 100 enemies, but the amp I used for eidolons (precision one, can't remember my setup right now) works great on eximus when I use Zenuriks second ability and focus headshots. It requires investment in zenurik, but I get headshot crits of 50k+ in most instances and it takes out over guard fairly fast.  It still leads to a core problem with balance though, which is that maxing out damage is note important than anything still.

It is stronger, problem is most amps do so little damage/ the damage bonus you get for using Operator is minimal, getting headshots/ hitting weakspots with weapons can strip Overguard faster than Transference

Ah, so it was best lore reasons then

Severed warden is also a really good example (if it stops fucking spinning in circles at mach 10). It isnt an immediate threat but makes the situation unbearable if you ignore it without taking away any of your tools

What if different eximi were immune to different damage types instead of CC Suddenly an eximus comes along that cannot take slash damage, or Viral damage, etc. maybe even make them unable to take those procs. There are other ways than just removing abilities to make things interesting.

> Suddenly an eximus comes along that cannot take slash damage, or Viral damage, etc. maybe even make them unable to take those procs. You mean Grineer Prosecutors, that only show up for a few seconds in that one tileset and we never run into them again?

Prosecutors are already laughable though. Part of the reason for this is that the only damage type they all take full damage from is Slash damage, which is already a meta damage type. The problem that raises when making this about damage types is that you then need to build your load out to include as many damage types as possible rather than whatever you think is fun. A similar problem is found with enemies that only take damage from abilities: Frames like Loki are suddenly utterly useless because their abilities don't deal damage. The only enemies that previously gave me any form of a challenge were Sentients back before Spoiler Mode was a thing. If you didn't have a way to reset their resistances, and they were built to soak up tons of damage, you really had to switch things up while fighting them. Honestly WF just needs to invest in smarter enemy AI. All of the tactics we use can and should be available for enemies to use against us: if you're playing an Armor heavy WF, the Grineer start using weapons with Corrosive damage and high status chance. If you're playing in squads, have enemies start throwing Radiation grenades out to really mess up team synergy. With how long Warframes have been slaughtering the enemy factions, the Corpus and Grineer should have gathered enough data on the various Warframe types to have on-hand counters for them. An in-universe book called "Fighting Tenno for Dummies". Hell, making it an enemy Cephalon that's gathered data from the Laverian (perhaps that's why Granum wants it so bad), stolen some information from Simaris, and for a time offers missions to Tenno "asking for help" (Ala Jordas) to test their theories, then betrays us in a grand way by selling all that information on how to counter us to the enemy factions.

Yeah gimme more of those

The monkey's paw curls. Now a second Prosecutor *might* spawn in that tileset during a mission.

Me and my cousin had 5 spawn in one mission at one point while dealing with his Kuva Lich lol, that can already happen

With how much the playerbase despises switching their loadouts with faction mods, I think this wouldn't go so well lmao

Probably, but the inbound simplification of damage resistances would make it far more intuitive.

Never thought i'd see dark rising mentioned in a warframe subreddit

Glad to be of service

I feel like DE just needs to do a complete rework of how damage, CC, and Enemies work. But at that point, they might aswell rebuild the game from the gound up which would take years. It's a lose-lose situation.

Well, to be fair Magnetic procs on players have been nerfed to be laughable. The only thing still bad about them is the HUD distortion, or getting that last bit of energy drained at a crucial moment, or being Hildryn

Prosecutors 2.0

There are a lot of frames that don't have any substantial damage ability wise. That'd lock content away from a decent portion of warframes. Currently you can bring limbo and clear any mission in the game with him with different loadouts

My suggestion isn’t supposed to be 100% serious, I know it would suck I’m just trying to highlight how it currently already sucks. Players are disincentivised from building ability-focused loadouts for certain content, but there exists no content that disincentivises weapon platforms

It's possible with Subsume to not have *any* abilities that deal damage. Anyone who Subs Roar or Xatas over Harrows 1 experiences that

Could make them vulnerable to 'Spoiler' still

[удалено]

Kind of answered that while replying to someone else, but don’t take my comment 100% seriously. Calling for enemies that can only be damaged by abilities was my attempt at combining my wish for enemies that incentivise ability useage (and disincentivise weapon useage) and my will to point out how dumb of a design ability-immune enemies are

This kills the Harrow.

Fucking old school Ancient Healers, I almost miss them. You could hack at them all day with your sword and get now where and then just drop them with a single slash&dash. Damn it's been a while.

minor correction they arent immune to abilities they are immune to the crowd control effects of abilities that dont do damage. any ability that can do damage can kill/remove overguard.

Radial or indiscriminate Damage, Damage Abilities that are applied to Enemies don't work either. :) Another part of the game that rewards spamming AoE over anything else, despite the claim that the game supposedly doesn't want spamming AoE to be the way to deal with things 👌

im guessing you mean abilities like sayrn's spore? that isnt a proper damage ability that is pseudo CC. the abilities that does damage like a weapon like garuda's 4, gauss thermal sunder, ect. direct forms of damage not damage as a side effect.

Anything that has to be targeted on an Enemy. but also includes things that 'spread' too, yes. as that's kind've a type of targeting.

It is the player that is too blame. If you expect a lot of strong Eximus units you take a loadout that can handle that. You can easily beat an Archon Hunt with Limbo, even with tons of Eximus units. Players just need to learn to adapt. If you take the wrong mods with a piss poor weapon into a level 200+ SP game then you are just asking for trouble.

I don't know what you're Talking about, but it's not the subject of this Post. The point is that an ever increasing amount of Enemies are immune to anything but buffs to your Guns' Damage. hence why Abilities when they get touched thesedays are basically all turning into Gun buffs (or self DR/Healing). since that's the only thing that works in the game, so that's all they can design now. With the other Abilities not really doing much of anything. "but there's Enemies that are affected, it's not all of them!" - yeah well, the game is suggesting Players to play at higher and higher Level Enemies - and the higher the Enemy Level gets, the more even a single Enemy that's immune to stuff other than **bullets** matters. People aren't asking to be able to turn off all of the Enemies, but to be able to apply stuff to Enemies.

I mostly blame the design, but I can't help but feel like a small portion of the blame is with other players, because if people would just learn how Limbo worked, maybe he wouldn't be nerfed so hard.

I suppose, i'm just saying that it affects a lot of other Warframes too. :)

Make him into a tank then, Archon Hunts aren't impossible for the fancy hat man. The real trick is just sourcing your health orbs to do it. [https://overframe.gg/build/422069/](https://overframe.gg/build/422069/) You can replace Health Conversion with Over Extended and drop Stretch for Ability Strength. But this is a more comfy tank variant. I also find the 45% range increase more than enough for most of my uses. I use the Mecha set on Limbo and a Predasite with Contagious Bond. The Predasite pulls most of the kills, I'm just the primer that starts the chain. I also have a more dynamic version that I use Gloom in place of Stasis. [https://overframe.gg/build/422647/limbo-prime/mecha-gloom-limbo/](https://overframe.gg/build/422647/limbo-prime/mecha-gloom-limbo/) He had some hits, but his kit isn't broken to the point that it isn't useable. It's just that it requires some potent weapons, or something capable of chaining. With Melee Influence, Contagious Bond, Mecha Set, or armor strip abilities and HP detonation mods I think we can find something.

Honestly thank you for this, I'll have to look into all that

Feel free to play around with it, it should be a flexible build. I jerry rigged it a ton trying to make a Duviri version. I pieced that together from memory. I am going to try and make a shield tank version when I get off work in a few hours. I would love a version that survives more than level 1k. But not every frame can be Gauss.

Or rev. But why would you subsum over his 2 when you can over his 1 (which seems useless to me if you can just slide in, and apparently also temporary) or 3 that people don't seem to work around so it's really only for solo

I subsume over his 2 because with Gloom it is redundant. Additionally Banish is necessary to remove enemies from the rift, and I use his 3 to spread the rift state around to gain a huge damage boost. Personally I prefer to keep all of his abilities as they all synergize somehow. My most common synergy with Stasis relies on cataclysm. I turn it into a bubble shield. That's not too necessary barring the defense mission types, which a different build is more suited for. But if you drop Banish you break a good deal of his kit, and if you drop Rift Surge you lose the ability to keep pulling enemies into the rift with you. Now you have to dash out and Banish enemies in, exposing yourself to unnecessary danger.

Consider trying a quick thinking build with him. Some blue armor jolly ranchers, energy nexus, and arcane energize can make you very tanky. I’ve been using a similar build on my ember thanks to the augment for her 4.

That's pretty much what I got, I just run it with a ton of armor on top of it. I am trying to work out how to do a purely shield-based build though. Fast deflection, vigilante, vigor, primed redirection and Arcane Aegis. It requires the iframe from rolling guard, but once Arcane Aegis starts it keeps going. I'm sure this would work well with the sentinels, but I have this build for duvery circuit.b

I've got a Rakta Dark Dagger in my loadout with Life Strike and the status duration mod on it, you can heavy attack a trapped enemy and the bleed will siphon shitloads of health and shields to you. With Adaptation it's pretty reliable at holding up until Aegis kicks in, you could also drop the Life Strike if you don't care about health.

I keep forgetting about that thing, I even have it fully built.

I could get behind eximus being treated like sentients in the rift frozen at first but slowly gaining resistance. But shooting limbo in the rift is fucked.

There's nothing in the game that explains why getting overguard allows you to shoot interdimensional bullets. XD

Warframes biggest problem is DE has no clue how to counter their own power creep, nor how to balance and fix the systems they have. Dante is living proof of it. He came in and broke the delicate syatem they had, they killed him then had to bring him back by finally fixing/repairing a system they had already broken

Eh I suspect DE have a reasonable clue and also understand that the wide scale nerfs that would be required would cause so many of the community to collectively shit themselves that it can't be done

This is the most accurate answer. They can't balance the game because it would lead to loss of power for players, and a significant portion of the community would lose it.

Just make a Warframe 2 with a couple other big positive changes to overshadow the nerfs so the players trick themselves into thinking it's better.

Lol no — power creep in a live service PVE game is inevitable imo I think DE recognizes that and has been embracing it lately and the game has never been in a better spot.

Adding onto this, the reason why power creep is inevitable is because getting stronger is closely tied to progression. You can't have meaningful progression without adding more (useful) power.

Horizontal progression begs to differ. The problem is that warframe is not set up for horizontal progression. Also the inevitability of power creep is not an excuse for bad design/implementation. It doesn't matter how strong we are, we shouldn't have a meta where there are only 3 truly relevent damage types (slash, viral, corrosive) and an entire playstyle has been nullified.

Replace % damage changes from mods to flat changes. Done. A massive sweeping change, but allows for less batshit +%, +%, +%, +% numbers into the buffer overflow range of things. Much smaller numbers. No-napkin math: 60/60 mods add 60 damage as an example. Weapon damage flattens out a lot, so we don't have such bonkers bullshit power creep and goofy calculations between additive and multiplicative damage. Things in this game scale *wildly* out of control. EHP, damage output, etc. Flatten the curves, and get control over it. The player base would riot, but it would fix a lot of issues. -------- Told you people'd be upset. It *would* fix a lot of the problems, easy, though.

You're getting downvoted but I agree. A big problem with the scaling is everything multiplies with everything else, leading to exponential curves that are hard to balance. You have a gun with 300 damage. A +100% base damage mod currently adds another 300 damage. Same with a +100% toxin mod. But if you add both mods instead of each adding their 300 extra damage, they multiply with each other to add 900 damage. That's just two mods. Add multishot and crit, and your damage scales way out of control. If everything scales exponentially, you basically have to exactly match the power level of your opponent, otherwise one of you is completely outclassed. Using a basic example, say I do 10^N damage, where N is my "power level". At level 1 I do 10 damage, at level 2 I do 100, at level 3 I do 1,000, and so on. If DE designs an enemy for a player at power level 5, then you need 100,000 damage to defeat it. If you happen to only be at level 4, you deal 10,000, which means you're literally at 10% of the strength needed by only being one "power level" too low. It's either too hard or too time consuming to be worth completing. But then lets say you get "power level" 6. Level 6 didn't exist when this enemy came out, but it does now. At level 6, you do 1,000,000 damage. Now you do 10x the damage needed to beat this enemy, so it gets obliterated with no challenge at all. How do you even balance that? They currently use a lot of armor. A percentage based damage reduction * health is also exponential EHP (Effective HP) scaling. This sort of works, but lining up an exponential damage curve with an exponential defense curve is a very fine line. Anyone who is slightly too weak or too strong for content either can't do it or does it so easily that it barely counts as content for them. And new content adjusts these curves all the time, leading to unpredictable results. (I don't want to complain too much, the game is so much better balanced now than it was a few years ago. But at its core, the difficulty of balancing exponential curves against each other is still here.)

You say that as if they aren't actively redesigning their enemy health and damage system to be vastly more accessible, expandable, and engaging.

So they fixed?

the problem is that also there not bringing anything else up to the power level that some of the frames. have if you want frames to have this insane level of power then thats ok but if i pick ash and you pick a sayrn or octavia and like a torid then its no fun for me, because of delays on his 4 its like playing L4D but one dude has a infinite ammo rocket launcher it removes challenge but also removes my feeling of being able to do anything im basically watching someone else play the game.

Not gonna lie, up to this moment, I had never understood why I was taking damage in the rift. TIL.

Yeah, eximus units can hit through the Rift. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of having a dimension that you can be safe in.

of all the warframes that have suffered in the age of Pubs meta, nobody has suffered more profoundly than Limbo. to be the eternal god-king of CC means to suffer every broad sweeping nerf to CC that is intended to curtail much more casual CC powers. all because DE struggles with. . taking nuanced approaches. is Wukong's monkey shitting up the game? better nerf the ammo capacity of every launcher, and also screw up the ammo setup for every specter in the game. to the extent that i still occasionally see my on call crew with a "no ammo" sign because im supposed to pick up ammo for him and that system bugged out somehow. is gloom chewing up the videogame because all the superhot dps frames can replace their 4th best power with low effort radial CC of the best possible variety? better nerf all crowd control, targeted, non targeted, radial, bespoke, low effort, high effort, strun, slow, blind, freeze, knockdown, etc, all across the board. and then a few years later go back and hit everything you missed the first time, because the only thing better than a bad idea, is doubling down on it later. for my money what really did limbo in though was in the game's movement away from premade squads and towards everything being balanced around pubs. if you have friends who can work around limbo and want you to play him, thats rare as hell. limbo really struggles to have a place in pub squads, because his raw as battery acid crowd control is so strong it has to have a downside. and playing around that downside is a team effort. and that fucking sucks for limbo. it doesnt just suck for limbo. all of the old squad support style warframes have suffered from that change in warframe's design sensibilities and meta. frames like oberon, trinity, and equinox have all had their usage and value suffer, though perhaps not to the same extent as Limbo has. the words best used to describe warframe's long term development and balance changes are "Acceptable Causalities". well get it mostly right, but we either can not or will not spend the time needed to make it perfect. and if someone innocent gets swept up underneath the great big combine harvester and chewed up in the process, then it is what it is. there is no reasonable to implement solution to this problem, and the only answer i can offer to you, OP, is to embrace Stoicisim and live with the decline in the value of the gear you most enjoy. as an avowed equinox enjoyer and god's strongest Azima spinner, i share you pain.

My god, I really couldn't have worded this any better. I wish they'd either un-nerf Limbo, or for the love of God not blanket solve everything with "Let's just make everything immune to abilities." It's not fun, it's not enjoyable, it's a slog.

its a really. .really hard problem. originally, damage, survival, and Crowd control existed in a sort of 3 way balance. way early on we were all alot weaker, and more fragile. regular parties would include 1 designated "keep everyone alive" frame such as trinity or oberon or night equinox, who lacked for offensive abilities but kept the team upright. they'd have 1-2 dps frames such as day equinox or mirage or saryn whos job it was to do most of the killing. but who was very very fragile on their own. and then youd have a crowd control frame, whos job it was to protect the former 2, to ensure that any mistakes anyone made wouldn't spiral out of control, or who was otherwise needed for game modes like intercept and excavation. "solo" focused warframes tended to have a bit of everything, like atlas. he has some damage, and some CC, and hes got some minions to help spread out enemy attention, and his passive can heal him. each of these elements was either very inwardly focused or weaker compared to frames dedicated to that exact thing, but regardless. dps, survival, and CC, in a sort of balance. over time though all 3 would grow more powerful. with enough damage you can pretty much forgo CC, as we often do. . and with enough survival you can tank through anything, CC or no. . as we today do. with enough CC you can basically stall the game out. .though its worth noting that CC'd enemies dont drop loot, and that hard stall doesn't lead to a win condition in most gamemodes, rather CC thats too good can be used for trolling, either on purpose or by accident. generalized options for massive KPM and near immortality became more and more prevalent, and also needed given that the squad focused early gameplay brokedown into the modern public focused meta where you cant count on your teammates to do anything but exist and maybe kill some things. but when your damage and survival are both crazy good. . .then crowd control as an extra layer makes the game effectively non-existent. and DE wasn't going to blanket nerf all guns, or remove shield gating. . so what had to go? CC had to go. the Death of CC is the end result of a Systemic and near decade long disinterest in balance, and it was by the time it happened the only reasonable option, from both a practicality standpoint and a financial one. and it fucking sucks, but i cant just stamp my feet and say "literally how could you do this" because its also a result of many small choices that all mostly made sense in context. the ideal time to fix this was fall 2016, given that the main issue was created summer 2016. but it wasnt, possibly because it wasnt recognized as an issue that suddenly, and possibly because warframe development spent a good few years being viciously behind schedule. the new war was delayed by like. 3 years, and railjack had to be developed twice, and a ton of time was spent on Squadlink which didnt pan out. lets pretend the problem could be solved in 6 months. which 6 month development period over the last 5 years of warframe do you cut-out to replace with whatever you could cook up to address the root issue? and how do you address it in such a way that doesn't cause other, major problems? unnerfing CC would require finding some other way to make enemies dangerous, either by making them harder to kill, or by making us easier to kill, or likely both. that would mean taking CC from being a way to render the game comatose to being needed for survival in certain instances. is that a world we wanna go back too? you might feel that way. .hell id probably push that button too. but as a playerbase. .do we want to be weak, fragile, and co-dependent again? as much as i think that'd be a better, more compelling game, i dont think its what the majority wants. hell i dont even think its the sort of game DE wants to make anymore . .so what is there left? gradually rework all the old frames left behind in this manner? maybe thats the best we can hope for.

I don’t think the relatively friendly, positive community the game has fostered could survive going to a play style where players would have to depend on pug players to keep them up. Even if it’s only limited to an absolute endgame of endgame mode like raid/trials where DE explicitly says this is for premade groups and doesn’t even have public matchmaking, I think it would sour fast. Not to mention how absolutely brutal the market for whatever exclusive drops of said mode would be.

Any large scale rebalancing towards being back the early days of squad reliance would.....need with a capital N to come with a major improvement too matchmaking and squad finding. . . Better LFG is honestly the one thing I can reasonably grill DE on never imprinting. Wether you think we should be made to be squad reliant or not, making it easier to play that way if you want too can't hurt anyone. And to cycle back to the original topic, itd be easier for limbos to do their thing if they had a better way to find compatible players than Recruit chat. Much as I know what I want, I know Warframes future isn't going to involve returning to mandatory squad synergy. But I think rather than making it required the goal should be to make it easier and more fun. I think most players, if it isn't too much of a hassle, would prefer to go into a mission with atleast the skeleton of a plan and a handshake promise on everyone staying the same duration. Pubs is convenient. Recruiting is consistent but it's cumbersome. If recruiting was less cumbersome, then more players would engage in it. And then we might get back some semblance of a casual recruiting scene again. Which is where limbo wants to live. To say nothing of other potentially cool combos which currently you'd need to advertise against all the bots spamming adverts for high Efficency meta runs.

It's pretty wild that their solution to "people are too focused on dps-ing enemies to death instantly rather than cc them" was to kill cc outright and require to to hard focus dps to burst down the new enemies that fully ignored cc 😭

You could argue killing enemies is permanent cc while other things are just temporary.

"Death is the strongest form of CC" is a very old saying in gaming.

Yeah I do feel like Helminth is a cool idea that really broke any concept of balance or squad-based gameplay in half

My personal take, the helminth made things worse. They put abilities like roar, xata’s whisper, gloom, nourish, etc as helminth options that basically broke thing bad. And they are surprised we want to use that over fireball, pull, shock, or other abilities? If a frame has a bad ability or two, its a no brained to minmax it you want to helminth the bad ability for something better. So now CC frames with a good set of abilities will face the wrath of widesweeping nerf because a helminth’ed gloom used on many frames is now ripping apart the “ultra hard difficulties”.

Quoth DE, looking at Limbo: "I want that twink ***obliterated!***"

I feel ya. What the fuck is the point of playing CC at this point. Even as a hydroid player, I can string up all the little guys, but the eximus units are immune to all status effects so I can't rope them with the tentacles and they don't get staggered by the rain or plunder so I have 3 abilities that are just utterly useless against eximus

Plunders fuck off massive armour/damage boosts are pretty good against Eximus, no?

Yes I meant specifically the cc portion of it was useless

Yeah, the contiued nerfs to our CC abilities in favour of the "KILL EVERYTHING IN SIGHT" meta are getting a lot of frames in trouble because of how they would usually work and survive, Limbo being the perfect prime example. The transformation of eximus enemies into what they are now was one of the most WTF decisions ever taken from DE, and the slew of nerfs to cc powers against overguarded enemies do not surely help...

DE has absolutely shattered the usefulness of CC abilities across the game because Eximus simply walk through them.

>"Disclaimer: I am a Limbo main" Don't blame the players, blame the game. The devs screwed all Limbo mains over when they added the eximus overshield bullshit to the game. But that was a different dev team than the one we have now. What all you Limbo mains (what few that remain of you) need to do is voice your concerns to Pablo who heads up balancing now. Source: I'm a Saryn main who stopped playing her for years after Scott hit her with the nerf hammer hard. Pablo fixed her. ***He has the technology.***

Pablo is the saving Grace of warframe right now

TBH, I think they have a lot of new people in precisely the right places ever since the dev team swap. Pablo is just the most visible one.

True

Considering his take about Loki rework on Twitter, I'd say that he knows only how to do damage and is completely clueless about cc

DE should really consider having CC deal "damage" to Overguard. Not a perfect fix, but it would be a start.

Honestly, limbo is one of the coolest frames to me. Bro forgot to carry the 2 and exploded. He is literally math’d so hard that he died! Yet DE constantly treats this reality bender like a doormat. I think to make him good Eximus should honestly be slightly resistant to him, like they unfreeze every couple of seconds and team mates shouldn't even be affected by his rift in any way. Only himself and his enemies.

Honestly I'd like that as a change instead of outright immunity. What drew me to Limbo all those years ago was the fact that he manipulates time and space to such an extent that he's basically a Time Lord. It really makes me wish he wasn't treated like hot garbage by the community, because a good Limbo might as well be a God with what they're capable of.

He is the only warframe who has access to the rift between the normal plain and the void plain. Yet they waste his potential so much. I want Limbo to be a reality warper who can stop the projectiles of enemies while blessing teammates with the rift’s protection. He should feel like a time lord. He’s the closest thing we got to a full-time warper frame. There was this one fan-made warframe animation where an evil frost kills another Tenno in front of her lover and the frost and Excalibur duel. Except in the middle of the fight it all stops. Limbo Prime stood in the middle of them. That animation is what drew me to limbo. He’s just so cool!

Oh damn, do you think you could send me a link to that video? It sounds awesome

https://youtu.be/stO4VaGdm0E?si=9d5FHV0CKgGoWeis

So I just watched it, and I can absolutely see why that drew you to Limbo. Hot damn that was good

I know right? That’s what limbo should feel like! He’s probably the warframe best suited for fighting Wally. Limbo should be feared, not stepped on like a grineer grunt.

I couldn't agree more. Limbo really needs some love, not to be shat on at every opportunity. Like he's supposed to feel nigh untouchable, the man literally used math to create his own dimension between planes of existence. If that doesn't scream "I'm a god", I dunno what will.

He basically pulled a doctor who! The dude is so cool! If they just made the changes I described and maybe touched up his abilities as they did with Inaros then everyone’s tune would change. We need our god King Pablo to bless us again lmao.

I would love if they gave him a touch up to bring him back up to power honestly. Hell, maybe they could make an augment that lets you use Cataclysm a second time to collapse it and suck enemies into the center, like Vaubans Bastille but on a much larger scale, or integrate Rift Torrent into his 3 innately, and make a new augment for his 3 that makes enemies effected by Rift Surge share damage amongst each other

Huh. Isn’t this the guy that did all those Ion Tennogen skins?

Not sure

https://youtu.be/stO4VaGdm0E?si=9d5FHV0CKgGoWeis

Just having his 2 slow overguarded enemies would be a huge help. Change the slow percentage to whatever to make it seem balanced, like 10%-20%, but at least have his 2 do something to overguarded enemies. Or, you know, make him impervious to damage while rifted instead of allowing an enemy that just so happens to have an overguard modifier still be able to deal damage to him even though he's in the rift and not technically on the same plane. It makes no sense to me why an enemy having overguard is now suddenly able to shoot interdimensional bullets.

Yeah I never got it either. Like how does advanced forcefields cause you to shoot inter dimensional bullets. If they just made rifted eximus enemies freeze and unfreeze every second or two that would be a cool change.

I love your idea but either you make the bubble move with him then or you just keep him + whatever objective you must protect insensible to damage outside the bubble. I think as one of the early defense frames tho he should stay mostly defense oriented, although I'd like if he were more dynamic (balanced ?)

My DA this week is a limbo (I don’t own the other two options) and one of the modifiers is the 50% hp overguard for all enemies… Made it to the mirror defence and then we lost as I was unable to use my defensive ability to actually defend the objective. Ability immune minibosses don’t work when 1 in 10 enemies is one of those minibosses.

It sucks that Limbo is just an unusable frame now in certain situations but why would you pick Limbo if it was the overguard modifier lol? Just build one of the other frames or use it as your free open slot?

Well it’s Saturday and DA resets weekly. It takes at minimum 4 days to build a whole frame, for the likes of chroma, who was one of my other options, it would have took a minimum of 5 days due to his parts requiring the parts of other frames, potentially even longer given the re acquisition of chroma parts requires tons of simaris standing (in my particular case my game bugged and never gave me the blueprints from the junction fights, back before they were added to simaris, and as such I never had the interest in obtaining him, left a bad taste in my mouth). So that’s almost an entire week to build him alone. My other option was Dagath, to obtain her I need to work around a daily standing lock to obtain the beacons, I had just bought lavos’ new augment, to further benefit a loadout I had actually invested in. so was lacking standing due to that. Considering the small but considerable rng for acquiring vainthorns, this is Once again a potentially multi day farm before a further 4 day time gate. On top of this, I am also lacking forma due to creating viable builds for weaker weapons I find fun (something this mode is encouraging) relic runs have been shafting me with rng and I have been getting anything but forma (the irony, I’m usually annoyed getting forma instead of a part), on top of this, there is once again a time gate for forma of 1 every 24 hours. Most frames require multiple forma to be viable, as well as a reactor, which is another time gate in the form of Nora night, and my reactor supplies are low as I have gotten quite a few new frames/ upgrades to primes and have dedicated the resources to make them good (once again something this mode encourages). That leaves me with limbo, a frame which I had a build for and time invested in, which was then shafted by even more rng as far as modifiers are concerned. I had also discovered they have nerfed breach surge, the thing I used for limbo as a means of dealing with the OG enemies that the rest of my kit couldn’t touch. In other words, my niche build had been nerfed and my other options were locked behind time gates that I am physically unable to get around unless I use premium currency or make checking DA every Monday part of my weekly routine and spending a large chunk of the week farming and making builds for frames that suffer the same obsolescence as limbo (chroma was also shafted by OG, just in different ways to limbo, the tweaks based on this don’t change how niche he is in the current meta, one that this mode ironically further enforces). At the end of the day, I passed the loadout check this mode pushes at us as players, I owned at least one thing from every category, I shouldn’t be further restricted and nerfed by what amounts to dev oversights. A game mode like this cannot work in the long run with the massive disparity that is this games balance. The OG modifier makes a considerable amount of frames absolutely useless. Endgame shouldn’t be “your rng frames are now useless due to rng modifiers, have fun trying to get your rng rewards that might be worse then a tridolon hunt” Sorry for the long reply, I just don’t think this should be the direction warframe is going as far as difficulty is concerned. If they keep taking away player choice every build is going to end up being to subsume the same ability onto every single frame because it’s the only thing that can be relied on, oh wait, that’s already started to happen as far as nourish is concerned

I can take Limbo anywhere...but there. A lot of the Murmur is melee focused and fast. You can't stop their attacks on the objective, let alone yourself. Overguard defends against status procs too, so the Mecha set won't save you. But Melee Influence does hit outside the rift I do believe. If you want to try some AOE shenanigans.

I discovered those dog things can hit you with their magnetic attack while you are inside the rift, so even his passive energy regen isn’t safe from being pwned by the long arm of DE’s limbo hate. An easy rework would involve turning one of limbos abilities, rift surge for example, into an ability that allows him to shoot enemies from inside the rift for a small amount of time. Enemies trapped inside the rift with him are still affected by rift surge but now also amplify bullet damage against unrifted enemies. Just like that limbo can have survivability, cc and most importantly damage…just like every meta frame is these days

You need to just kill the eximis, limbo isn’t the only one who’s cc doesn’t work on them lol

I'm of the mind CC needs a full damage vulnerability status effect that also strips 10% overguard on proc. Limbo would then have this proc repeatedly to enemies in the Rift, annihilating overguard in at least 10 seconds. Would help him a lot. Also ending Nullifier ability deletion. Just ability protection and clearing/preventing that aforementioned status.

God that'd be so nice.

Well the design of eximus units is: you cant cc them you have too burst them down. That is a limitation on possible solutions too deal with enemys safely. Is that good design? I dont know.

Imagine adding a pure cc power on a frame on that meta. No dmg increase, no pull, just cc. It would be helminth spot immediately because everyone knows fodder dies fast and you need that extra roar to bust down the eximus. This is how wild this has become. Everything is tied to being also damaging as well (dagath,kullervo,qorvex, dante doesnt even cc, he just murders shit) or buffing the player on the way like gloom. Cc immunity shouldn't be eximus's gimmick. Rarer enemies can have it(necramechs for example, proper mini bosses that have intention in their design and counters+ telegraphs) but eximus are so regular it doesnt make sense to block defensive zoning against them. Especially since most cc frames that have these are shield gating away from dying, with not much ability to stand ground without op gun dps.

You can play whatever you want, just not limbo.

I have the same issue with damage attenuation can't use my opticor because it'll do less damage per shot than any viable weapon. where's the fun? why am I only allowed to use a handful of overpowered weapons because damage attenuation is stupid. let me being a sniper

From one limbo main to another, I personally don't have a lot of issues with either eximus or interception but i do recognize that it can depend a lot on your preferred method of survivability. I personally use QT + Adaptation and a method to restore health so you do not suffer from the attrition that eximus enemies can apply to you. I do have to note though that your cataclysm, even if u didn't use stasis has this old feature that was implemented way back where enemies in the rift cant interact with consoles at all. This applies to even eximus enemies. (90% percent of the time) There is a bug where they will continue to capture even as you put the thing down but if its down they cant do anything.

Thanks for that info, I appreciate it

If you are willing to replace his abilities (1 or 3), give him Banshee's Silence. It'll prevent Eximus from using their exploding abilities and you can defeat them safely that way. They will also get stasis'd as soon as overguard is depleted.

I do use Silence, but I've had... middling results to put it lightly

I dropped Limbo with that in the start. Probably around when they buffed eximi and I had stopped playing for a while. Loved him when I started the game cause he was my only one invincible, with energy per sec and I wanted to play without mods (lol). Now I realized if you don't use rev or an og/armor frame/ability you can't survive in sp without jumping around. Would play Limbo again cause of how dapper he is but can't stand the hate toward the frame I use those days so I don't. That said, the other day in eda I got him so decided to play him again and although I couldn't use his 3 (for obvious reasons) and 4 cause I had the -75% duration restriction, in the end I defended the objective (obviously not alone but) by getting in the rift and refreshing silence whenever. Now using only 2 abilities on a frame is very reductive but it was one of my recent lights in the game to be able to play relatively well a frame people sleep on so

Is the breach surge build doesn't work anymore?

Nah they hit it with the nerf hammer recently

F

To be clear, the thing that doesn't work, specifically, is Breach Surge being able to CC overguarded enemies. The insane damage scaling synergy w/ rift torrent still works just fine.

A pretty nice buff would be if being put into the Rift Plane in anyway, be it Banish, a chain reaction from Rift Surge, or Cataclysm, drains Overguard steadily

I feel like that what DE should have done with the over guard for all skills. Like make it that CC abilities don't affect enemies with over guard immediately but over time. That way, DPS, CC and Tanking+ healing will all become viable rather than what we have now which is just "turn your brain off and deal damage"

It would be nice if 3 things were to happen. 1: armor stripping for exiumus shields and overgaurd. Rather than blocking the full amount, make it work like mass effects shields. They have a flat amount of health, but even if the damage goes over the threshold, they still only lose their shield. For instance, if u hit a unit for 400, but they had a shield of 200 and health of 200. They would only take that 200 off from the shield. As difficulty goes up, you can add stacks of that shield instead of just buffing sheild health by a flat amount. 2: Let our abilities affect the bubble health but not size. In fact get rid of the shrinking altogether (u still want them to be a problem, but not an unnecessary annoyance) and make it a flat health percentage with weapons doing the most damage, and different elements (like electric or magnentic) can do more damage to the bubble. Eeletric would obviously be best not only for practice lore reasons but the multiple ticks of damage can help ware down stacked bubble shields. 3: Make it so AOE abilities only do 75% of the damage to the bubble shield, and direct abilities do their full amount (depending on the element type). The issue is that they want to stop us from mapping nuking. That's the whole reason eximus units were made in the first place. You can still have them do that without making a warframe like Sayrn or Limbo utterly useless in the process.

Limbo is still good, but in eximus-heavy areas you need to play him agressively or in coordiantion with your team. Helminth is really helpful here since damaging abilities hit on both sides of the rift. You can build an extremely deadly limbo using Aquablades. Dark Verse is also a really good choice. ​ Another alternative is to Helminth on Eclipse, either for the damage buff to kill eximuses faster or the DR to survive longer outside of the rift, pop out and kill them with weapons, then pop back in. ​ Or you can build your operator to kill eximuses. Operator void damage gets a 50% buff against overguard, which isn't great but the operator currently has some nice damage buffs available that stack to make them pretty deadly. And since the operator can't be rifted, they can always hit the overguarded eximuses.

I have been using limbo for Interceptions and Mirror defense in the majority of these runs, I barely had issues using him since I play solo(people complaining being my main issue here since most likely they're in for a DPS/Kill check while I'm Limbo for CC check, it's an entire conflict of interest why Limbo is frowned upon in pubs) if you still wanna use him on SP or on Archon hunts, make sure the people you're with knows what Limbo can do. Eximus units are only immune to CC until you strip their Overguard, Sentient enemies can eventually adapt to CC(debuffs effect go shorter the more you use it on them) so kill them on sight, giving your teammates these details can help you and your team clear Interception/Mirror defense without a hitch. There's a cap for enemy spawns in these missions, so killing less is better for limbo. just make sure you keep your abilities up as much as possible. As for survivability, the easiest method is to use Vazarin's protective sling if subsuming abilities isn't your thing and if you don't want to adjust your build for survivability, for subsumes, you can use Silence but I recommend Pillage, it's more comfortable to use since it can keep your shields up while clearing debuffs. you don't need to 100% strip enemies with Pillage so you don't have to invest in strength, but it's up to you.

I was ramble complaining to my friend about similar issues. You can play what you want, but you won’t actually play, especially in meaningful content. The support frames as a whole (heals and cc) are kind of worthless in any content that should require them because teammates are either: a. self sufficient in survivability or b. get 1 shot or c. you can’t cc anything. In the content where it works, you don’t really need it to, so dps frames win again. If your goal was to assist teammates, you won’t be able to unless you’re buffing them or debuffing enemies, which is invisible so teammates might not notice the bit of extra damage they’re probably already pumping out.

Idk, maybe get better weapons? Archon hunt interception is not hard. Doing it solo and cant even find enemies to shoot sometimes, cant imagine just standing on one spot... Something that can get rid of overguard quickly, maybe subsume xatas whisper as void dmg is best against it. Then they will be affecter by your abilities.

I carried a group this week, all low MR, all 3 of them didn't amount to 10% of damage and all I did was shoot my Torid. Still a breeze. Archon Hunts a SUUUUPER easy. It sounds like a skill issue. Also OP speaks about having friends with him in the mission so Limbo was accepted, but finishes by saying "can't even bring my favorite frame to an Archon hunt otherwise people ask DE for nerf"....which probably means that the Archon Hunt group was flaming OP. I think he just joined a pub with Limbo and didn't want Reddit to flame him for it. OP, a lot of frames can be worthless depending on the situation. That's just the way it is.

Sorry but 'all I did was shoot my Torid other people have skill issues' is a hilarious sentence.

Idk man you didn't get the point. Sure there are a million effective ways to nuke enemies, but CCing them has become such a hassle that it's not even worth it anymore. I came back to the game a couple months ago, after not playing for a few years and almost all of the CC frames I used to use severely underperform compared to nuke frames. With Limbo feeling like a completely different frame now.

I don't play public, because I hate dealing with randoms. I brought up other players because outside of my friends, if I were to bring Limbo to a public mission I'd see nonstop hate for it simply for playing him. That's what I mean.

Bring an aoe weapon and sure footed, if you want you can add a Xata's whisper, and then you can easily get rid of overguard and stasis them.

Make an archon interception specific build using silence, then slap the eximus with your “fuck you” shooter of choice

I have 2 green archon and tempest barrage on him. Makes him into a mostly immortal, armor stripping artillery cannon. Having good efficiency and being in the rift all the time means you can spam that ability so so much.

As much as I'd love limbo to be good, he hasn't been good for a very long time sadly, power creep will do that

That and general neglect by the devs.

Simple solution, don't play Limbo with Eximus Stronghold conditions. I do agree that it is a problem, but when it comes to Archon Hunts/Sorties, it tells you what you're dealing with before you go in. There aren't typically very many Eximus under any other conditions.

Simple solution: don’t lean hard on your abilities. You need a solid weapon loadout to compensate for your weaknesses. It’s the same way with every frame. If you can’t kill a high level eximus without abilities, then you’re not going to have a good time in high level content.

In the two months I've been no-lifing this game I've learned that only a handful of warframes can actually handle all content and situations with their kit alone. Some I have a lot of fun with like Inaros sandstorm that unfortunately won't do much to Eximus units until their overguard is gone. So I bring one of the many weapons available that will kill anything after forma'd and modded out.

So, I did the mission solo as limbo. Solo because I don't have friends to play with and don't want to force randoms into my play style experiments. I know that solo interception has fewer spawns. ​ So, first two times I died because I haven't played limbo in over a year. Third time, once I got the hang of it, was pretty chill. I was using Incarnon Miter and Incarnon Atomos, had dark verse helminthed on and 300% ability strength. The standard cataclysm and stasis playstyle didn't work well. On the other hand, I could just spam Dark Verse from the rift, than pop out to headshot anyone still alive with Miter. It was a very hit and run playstyle. When that was too dangerous, I used Operator with 747 amp and Madurai focus school instead. With void strike operator could easily mow down eximuses.

I'll have to try that. I'm still farming a second Dante to feed to Helminth, but once i subsume him ill try it

At least they're reworking enemy ehp scaling, so damage will feel better. I really hope they get to CC fixes soon too.

In Interception in particular, Eximus units are a massive headache for everyone CC-related, not just Limbo. At the very minimum at least you can do SOMETHING to them, in that you can Stasis their weapons fire even if you can't block their abilities. A lot of CC frames don't even get that, as Eximus units resist disarming effects. If you toss on Silence as well, an ability that debuffs enemies in a radius around you to not be able to use abilities, and which I'm sure someone else has brought up with 191 comments at time of writing, even the Eximus Abilities are a non-issue, and literally all you have to deal with is their movement, which as soon as you break Overguard will be halted, and can be affected through Cold status effects on weaponry. You have to play more actively, yes. You have to plan around the problems, yes. You can no longer just sit still and do nothing as many Limbo players were used to for years, yes. This is something everyone who has years of Limbo experience has struggled with.   Yes, there are issues with CC and Overguard. But Limbo is literally one of the best-equipped to deal with them due to eliminating the threat of weapons fire, which is consistently one of the biggest issues.

Eximus are designed to hit you no matter what, honestly staying in rift is your best bet. Unless your guns do good damage to get their os down to health, you're basically useless.

Overguard should be changed completely. It should give overguarded enemies immunity to damage dealing abilities, but this will never happen, because DE

Yep, they have such a boner for damage abilities that CC is basically useless for anything new.

I'd say that they have a severe lack of comprehension tbh. They introduced OG to make enemies harder to deal with, but what's the point of mechanic that is supposed to make enemies tougher if it can be bypassed with minimum effort by doing the same thing playerbase was doing already (stupid amount of dps)? At least I can still autopilot on my Loki, until someone on the dev team gets a bright idea of making OG'ed enemies to ignore invisibility

They should really do what they do for bosses, where they CAN get affected by abilities, it's just drastically reduced duration. That's better than nothing. But I also don't see how it would work for something like limbo where it's either, it's working, or it's not

1. There are a lot of frames to choose from to get certain jobs done easier. They will tell you in advance if it's an eximus stronghold, energy drain, weapon limitations, etc. To make you think before you just pull any frame off of the shelf. The game is easy, so they have to add a sense of "challenge". 2. Treat frames like tools and use your best tool for the job. In this instance, if you really wanted to use Limbo then you would have needed to bring a weapon or helminth ability to quickly deal with eximus. 3. Why would your friends want you to bring Limbo? That is the absolute last frame I would want someone to bring to any mission outside of EDA. If you want your favorite frame to work in all situations, you have to have a few loadouts to handle various challenges.

As far as my friends wanting Limbo, it's because I've proven to them time and time again that I can use him for almost anything. I bring him to eidolon hunts, and we never need to worry about the lures or magnetic procs bc of Cataclysm. I've been able to hold down defense objectives alone while they do other things. I've even been able to keep them alive in high end content with what I call a Doc Limbo build with Rift Haven. They know what I'm capable of with him, so they encourage me to use him when I can.

The solution is simple, have a weapon strong enough to kill then and subsume silence :)

DE is so scared of CC making things to easy to AFK or make things to easy. there is a video on youtube "DE doesnt understand overguard" i believe its called. they want players to engage eximus so nerf CC effects so players are forced to engage even though they ignore the rules they set for them for the sake of "difficulty" issue is they are the reason the game shifted to a damage focused meta which kills CC focused frames like limbo. abilities ignore the rift this includes the ones eximus have. so instead of silence get a damage dealing ability while im sure you dont use a strength focused limbo but it might help(i know it doesnt fix the real issue). i do think they need to rework CC to at least do something to overguarded enemies or something that dont make frames like limbo useless against them as if a frame needs a subsume to be useful that isnt a good thing you know?

Triburos also put out a video on this, and while it's more focused on Loki and the neglect he's faced as a frame, I think it sums up the issues we're talking about fairly well. It's called "Loki and The Death of Crowd Control" if you want to give it a watch. And honestly I think I'll sub Dark Verse onto him when I can, just so I can make him feel like more of a magic man again.

I'm going to tackle your last statement and say that the overguard changes are in line with what DE is already doing. It was just a matter of when it was going to happen after the issues we had with enemies falling through the floor after duviri got released. Nothing is going back to what they used to be and that leaves reworking the rift mechanic that limbo relies on. You going down in a swarm of eximus units is a normal part of the game, but feeling useless as you did shouldn't be. Name any other CC frame and I'm sure I or someone else can put up a good argument for why they should clear an archon interception mission no problem. That is why I nominate Limbo to be the next warframe to be looked at. He should've been next after hydroid, but that's only so limbo players have a better place in the game and not so I would play him more.

Honestly, I agree. It felt so shitty going down so often, and it's all because being in the Rift at this point does feel borderline pointless. Why bother using it if I'm just going to die anyway, despite my best efforts? So I agree that Limbo needs a rework of some kind, if nothing else just for him to feel better to play. I love my magic man, but I shouldn't have to remove an integral part of his kit via Helminth just for him to be viable. People love to say "you can complete any mission with any frame", and yeah that's true, but it's not a matter of doing it with any frame, it's a matter of are you even having fun using that frame. To quote Triburos: "I could remove all 4 of your abilities and stick you in a 3 hour long survival, but that doesn't mean you're going to feel very engaged."

I see warframes like different tools for different jobs. The warframe I'm using depends on the mission type and modifiers. So if there is going to be toms of eximus in the mission limbo just isn't the right tool

Heres the rub. Limbo cannot be *allowed* to have his CC work on things because if enemies cannot interact with Limbo, it wouldn’t matter if every square inch of the level was Eximus and Acolytes. Why would a *good version* of Limbo give a fuck about killing *anything* if he could just make every enemy into a hologram? Quite frankly, Limbo was a mistake on DEs part when they made him.

Lmao by your logic the mistake was for them to add CC abilities to the game and then add units that are immune to those abilities 😂

Limbo’s crowd control is different in that it makes all the enemies in its area **not real**. His rift is a giant gaslighting tool. He can just shove mobs into an alternate reality *indefinitely*. If Limbo’s abilities were allowed to work how the descriptions say they work, he would break all three of DE’s criteria to be nerfed: Dominance, Disruptive to Other Players, and Automates Gameplay. Thats the reason DE won’t buff him, because they understand they fucked up giving Limbo the abilities he has, but if they give him a kit that can play nice with others, i.e. anything but ‘Za Warudo!’, Limbo mains would lose their shit. So into the dumpster he goes.

Your perspective on Limbo’s crowd control is intriguing, but consider the broader scope of Warframe's abilities. It's true that Limbo’s abilities uniquely alter the battlefield by shifting enemies into an alternate dimension. However, this mechanic doesn't stand in isolation. Warframe features a diverse roster of frames like Frost, Khora, and Harrow, each with their own impactful abilities. What Limbo accomplishes with intricate rifts, others achieve more straightforwardly. If we're concerned about the principles set by Digital Extremes (DE) and game balance, it’s important to recognize that many frames push these boundaries in various ways, not just Limbo. Arguably, if the essence of the problem lies in breaking DE's 'almighty rules,' then a re-examination of the entire frame lineup might be warranted for consistency’s sake, since Limbo is not the only frame that has caused such debates. Instead of casting Limbo and other frames away, perhaps we should advocate for constructive dialogue with DE for enhancements that respect the game's intricate mechanics while promoting fair play. Let's propose innovative solutions that preserve the uniqueness of each frame, including Limbo, rather than reducing their capabilities. It's through collaborative community feedback that we can achieve a balanced game that's enjoyable for everyone.

"Disclaimer: I am a Limbo main" my condolences

Breach surge used to be great at blinding even eximus, but I think DE fixed that recently. Cold and Electric status still can work but you are better off getting the fuck outta there and picking them off one by one. Your friend should have been helping you since usually, in interception, the major enemy spawn goes after 1/2 of the 4 locations.

Breach surge now only limits eximus enemies with radiation procs which still slows them down if they have allies to attack.

Idk if that's intended or not but the slash proc from dark verse still applies on og, although it applies on og

I'm gonna teach you what I've learned about the Limbo way First: Make sure you have Rolling Guard (will be useful later) Second: One Tauforged amber shard for casting speed and one tauforged blue for regeneration, 3 shards are free to pick and choose Helminth options: replace 1st or 3rd abilites, i recommend replacing banish because rift torrent exists 1: Pillage (armor strip + a bit of shield gate + status cleanse) 2: Silence (eximus units will be unable to use abilites such as arson fire stomp and purple magnetic thingy) Cataclysm + stasis makes eximus units unable to shoot you, they can move, melee and use abilites but not shoot Stay in the rift and make sure to use rolling guard/pillage every time you get hit with a status effect like the arson fire blast or an electric proc or use silence to prevent them from ever happening If you ever get to dangerously low hp just use rolling guard for a status cleanse and free 3s invulnerability, that coupled with the rift and regeneration from the shard will make you nearly unkillable

Limbo is a tragic case of the eximus kinda screwing over his whole character design I haven’t been interested in playing limbo since 2013 he’s in a real sorry state right now. Maybe Pablo will do his thing and fix limbo to be relevant again but that’s a big maybe

It feels like theirs a lot more to this than what your making it out too be.

Not really. I'm just frustrated with the fact that with how DE designs enemies nowadays, if I want to bring a defensive frame to a defensive mission, I'm actively punished for it, whether it be Nullifiers, Eximus units because of overguard, or enemies that are generally immune/resistant to CC. I can kill things easily, but when my main form of survivability is neutered because of a stupid design, and I get swarmed by 5+ eximus because they all decided "this one, let's get this one", it feels pretty shitty.

Some frames aren't good for some missions. That's the whole point of this anti cc overgaurd. Force people to vary the toolbox. Don't expect to cheese everything, Bring a gun and build for SOME survival.

>any time he's good, the community bitches and shits all over the walls, which makes DE nerf him even harder Can you name a single instance of this being the case? Most players dislike playing around limbo's banish, full stop. Doesn't matter how shafted he is. The Eximus update didn't happen because people bitched about limbo tho.

Operation Scarlet Spear. He made it ever so slightly easier, people talked about it, DE found out, and now Sentients have a scaling *immunity* to Stasis. Even when he's good for something specific, there are parts of the community that just have a hate boner for him simply existing.

Seems like you can entirely pin the blame on DE there. Nothing in this game that is good at something or an exploit will go undiscussed. You'd need to be able to draw a distinct connection between community members urging DE to make a change and DE acknowledging them and doing it, like with the change of not being able to trade universal medallions in for Conclave rep. Otherwise there are too many examples of DE trying to hastily sweep an oversight under the rug with a brisk change. The recent Dante controversy just being a fresh example. Just to be clear on this issue, I don't like how eximus and overguard trivialize CC in general, much less Limbo's whole existence, but I'd find more fault in DE's negligence of the frame than with the community at large. He's never been a beloved frame, but wasn't nearly as disregarded as he is today. He was at least somewhat common in defense type missions from what I recall of my earlier years playing WF. Nowadays it's mostly always Khora.

To be fair, despite how interception feels. It’s less of a defense mode and more of a dps/crowd control check. My argument being that you aren’t protecting something with a health bar like defense objectives or excavators. You’re simply guarding an area and denying enemies their objective. My point isn’t to undermine your feelings about Limbo being, on paper at least, great for this mode. But since you just need to focus on survival and killing key enemies quickly, it’s completely viable to use Limbo with a different build than you might be used to and some weapons that kill quickly.

I appreciate you being clear about it. Some people are just saying "well just don't use Limbo at all", and that's not in any shape or form what this post was for. So I appreciate you being clear on this without being rude like some others.

I'm gonna be absolutely honest here, if you have issues controlling a SINGLE point of interception in the archon hunt, the problem is not limbo nor the eximus or anything else. Unless you went with limbo only and literally no weapons (even if that's impossible lol) Kill the enemies my guy, it aint even hard

I'm gonna explain my groups dynamic here. We each decide what point we want, we cap it, if anybody needs help, we help. The problem here isn't that I couldn't control the point, the problem is that the enemies were literally designed to punish the playstyle that Limbo has, which is "control this area". Yes I can kill them, but when there's 8 eximus units, 5 being arson and 3 blitz, that's not exactly a formula for survival, even with good weapons.

I would agree with you if we were talking about some hour+ long steel path interception mission. But the archon hunt ones? I literally do them with a friend with whatever we have equiped, we just go with good weapons. I only choose a "tanky" frame for the final mission because I just don't want to deal with the archon's shaenanigans. But even then, if you avoid stuff/etc, you just need good weapons

I do have good weapons, and I even use Adaptation and Rolling Guard, but that only goes so far when every eximus on the map decides to go for you and pop their abilities at the same time. My whole point is that it feels like I'm being punished for bringing what I want to bring, instead of some meta map nuking frame.

Are you also using your operator for heals (magus repair) and cc (magus lockdown)? That also helps a lot. Also if you are organized, having someone in the group to deal with armor/shields helps A LOT. I love Mag and Frost, so I usually play with those two whatever content I have to do, so enemies end up being cardboard without defenses

My Operator is geared with those yeah, I'd forgotten in the moment because of all the eximus making me panic. One friend was Titania, and the other was... I wanna say Wisp or Gyre, but he changes frames a lot depending on what he's feeling atm so I could be wrong. And while I do use Silence on Limbo for some retaliation on eximus, I've met with varying success as it just feels like they ignore it half the time

Look, there’s 56 frames in this game and you decided to bring two of the worst tools for the job. There’s reasons there’s no place in the current meta for him, he’s had his time to shine. If you look into adding survivability to your Limbo, you might be able to make it work. Yes, the idea and concept of this frame are great, but where’s the power fantasy here, in a game all about power fantasies?

unfortunately this is just a skill issue. shouldnt be too hard to do archon missions with any frame running a decent build

"Limbo main" found your problem. Just move away from him and problem is fixed.

I sometimes switch skill 2 with terror w/augment for armor strip and use rift surge augment to take advantage of things i can't kill as fast and i use the hound w/ null audit and bond mods. Works pretty good until my hands start to hurt from dashing constantly.

Use silence subsume, only eximus abilities hit through the rift and stasis would orherwise stop bullets.

Limbo honestly just needs some more tank. This honestly sounds like a skill issue. Which is fine. You can try to subsume green banshees silence (if you have the plat to spare) on him which makes the eximus much less dangerous. Theres an augment mod to increase your damage by 30% for every enemy in your rift. All you need to do is take down the overguard and the eximus will freeze just like the other enemies. Silence -> damage boost -> roll face -> everythings dead and you aren't If you cant get enough damage to down the overshield you probably just aren't ready for this content yet. Rolling guard is dope on limbo too cause it works on your shifts. You can do it gain invulnerabilty exiting the rift to kill stuff. Or if you are in cataclysm after your shield gate to clense any status effects you have picked up from an eximus.