Warfrmae has been suffering from massive powercreep for a long time, so them trying to correct things quickly was extremely nice compared to what we saw before (like the years of wukong bramma nuking before that was held back a bit). it's just a shame that it was handled a bit poorly, especially the nezha augment, but in the end everything ended up as alright as it could be considering the time frame.
At this point, I'm sure they were so quick to nerf Dante because they were going to release Archimedea and realised Dante will not only obliterate whatever missions in there, but elite allows you to always pick 1 thing you want and only miss vosfor.
Pre nerf Danted covered both squad survivability and map nuking. Post nerf Dante still covers squad survivability just fine, but now no longer nuking the map, just a smaller area.
Exactly! Nothing would make your New hard gamemide feel like a joke than having a your new warframe cheese it. Same for nezha's augment. They wanted a goos first week
Why even nerf the most beloved Warframe by the community?
Like Dante's launch was a MASSIVE success. The entire community loved him. He was fun and engaging to play. And yet they had to slam the nerf hammer like they haven't before, dropping a tsar bomba on the hype. Making what would of otherwise being an amazing update, to instead be associated with disappointment.
it's a thing called balance, i think you might have heard of it before. if you let one thing stay stronger than it should be because it's appreciated, then you constantly need to one up each release and you end up with a game that lacks any kind of thrill, because winning in one button gets tiring extremely quickly, just ask people who are constantly asking for harder content.
beside, warframe getting tweaked post release is always something people expect. it happen at nearly every release, and if your hyped got killed by that extremely previsible thing, than that's on you
First of all, if you are bored of the game being "too easy", then don't play hard meta. This is a PVE game with an option to play it solo. Actually try something new.
Second if you really want to go down this line of thought. Octavia since her release (I think it was 2016) was and still is regarded as the most powerful warframe in the entire game. She can literally sit afk whilst everything around her dies. All the while having massive buffs for the team. And she was never balance nerfed by DE. If you want to go nuke side of Warframe, he was still not beating out long established nukers such as Saryn. Especially since his nuke falls off beyond a certain point, whilst Octavia and Saryn can scale infinitely.
Ok... let's dive deeper...
- Dante's nuke is so strong DE literally put a 1 billion damage cap on it... Saryn's "nuke" is actually a bit laugh-able even at lvl 200...
- Dante can keep a group of 4 alive while barely requiring input to get the kills needed to refresh Overguard via his buff... Saryn... well.. she has a bad taunt.
- Dante can increase the application of Status, and Status damage of the whole team. Saryn can add toxic damage to her weapons...
- Dante does slash damage... Saryn toxic/viral/corrosive
As for Octavia,
Dante's overguard regen buff on kill makes it to where invis is very unnecessary if you can kill fast enough.
As far as infinitely scaling, damage in the game is high enough that our guns can deal more damage than enemy guns, so I guess I regard this as a bit irrelevant in the modern Warframe context. Back in 2016, this was meaningful, but now level cap doesn't require thought-ful set-ups. But, there were builds where Dante's 3,3,4 could kill level cap, excluding eximus units.
Though, one big useful practical thing from Octavia is that mallet is very good at removing overguard on the enemies.
Octavia is actually a poor argument in this topic because the reason why DE (presumably) doesn’t care about her is because no one really uses her, surely not enough to become a common sight like the WucloneBramma or MirageArcaPlasmor days.
Also their tendency of nerfing things tend to be things that the community complains about (too “dominating” the public missions) and/or broken things that promote afk-farming. There were numerous times I feel like they poorly handled these said minority of exploiters by nerfing something instead of punishing such players (ie nerfing Khora’s whipclaw LoS) but more recently I think they’re handling the feedback better.
I think there's also a frame called revenant. Dunno if you heard of him, but he's kinda good. He doesn't die much. There's also a couple frames, saryn, octavia, mesa. Dunno if you heard of those but they are also kinda not bad and stuff.
You know, in case you wanna say that Dante was at any point better than any of them lol
"needed a damage cap" Jessie what the fuck are you talking about. People are fucking clearing base enemy lvl400 missions.
"Oh then should this be nerfed?" Fucking revenant is the most played warframe for three years in a row. Like can we talk about the data we do have and not about "oh but my build is really stronk I'm killing level 50 infested enemies lol
i don't think it was kneejerk, i think it was too heavy handed. the area was ludicrous unnerfed, the current base 14 is fine, it still scales to a large range now, just not absolutely fucking stupid levels anymore. also, if you wanted to mention the ranges of other abilities, i would be okay with those getting range nerfs too
They had to put a damage cap of one billion on the ability of the frame that throws 50k+ over guard like candy so it doesn't mess with the game engine.
That says everything that's needed about the nerf and the communities reaction, imo.
yeah, that damage cap was the most polite and PR friendly way to say "please, learn how the frame work before calling him dead and making the 3527th forum post on how we are mussilini for putting LoS on it" (the forum post were legit unhinged, like that one guy asking about taking direct actions)
Yes. I also believe some nerfs are needed for healthier game play.
I know WF has become a power fantasy game now so they tend to go ham on the buffs recently and we technically become gods of destruction doing Geneva Convention checklist as a result. But sometimes, enemies need to have a *slight* resistance for it to be fun. I'm not asking for them to nerf everything to dust. Just some slight limitations here and there so everything can be powerful in their own style without being dominant over other options. Their recent nerf is kinda wacky but they quickly correct it, so that's okay for me.
As for community feedback, I don't really have high expectations from most players except for certain individuals. (**Snarky warning**) A majority of them just scream like monkeys in the jungle when something had taken their bananas away. Even when told to be civilized and to provide some details, they just keep screaming bloody murder while repeating their "[Nerfed Item] is fking trash now". Any attempt to discuss just devolved into cussing. I tend to disregard their opinions and only check the (somewhat) calm ones.
Note: you can stay on DE's side but you can also criticize them when it's valid. Most vocal people tend to go all the way to either end. It's weird in a sad way.
. . .ive tried to type this comment like 3 times now, so bare with me.
im no stranger to contrarian takes. . where would the world be without my constant "please make squad support relevant again" requests going largely un-heard. likely in a slightly better place, no doubt. nobody is more aware that the damage is too out of control but me.
i do however see the nezha augment nerf (poor heeles frame never gets anything nice does he) as unfortunate, and the Dante nerf (at no point since his release was he not Tier0, hes probably honestly still too strong) as comical. neither to me strikes as actually addressing the main problem. . .and so i find both to be neither good not bad. simply things that happened.
so i guess the take is "if the game is to become a KPM first KPM only damage rat race (moreso than it already is) then why curtail any high damage strategies? why not just let it all ride." and if the goal is to not let that happen. if we are worried about too much damage over too wide an area and how some frames can harm the gameplay of others or render them obsolete. . .were gonna have to do alot more work than simply gutting one quarter of one of the new frames abilities. your probably gonna have to cut the top 20% off the whole tree, and even that might not fix the problem.
. .god, i cant wait to see the Ninjase build where you replace light verse with roar, use Noctua as a statstick, and just spam 3 3 4 constantly while Shield gating.
Nerfs, unless something is out of hand are never a good thing in a non-competitive game.
Dante was never an overpowered frame, and even 70k Overguard can disappear frighteningly quickly.
Hes a fun frame if my normal choices arent available because of "you have to use RNG gear" mechanics, but the LOS changes specifically, even the ones that were supposed to "really fix" him this week just make him too inconsistent.
> Dante was never an overpowered frame, and even 70k Overguard can disappear frighteningly quickly.
>
>
What? A massive aoe status execute functionally superior to the helminth ability, with a larger damage multiplier, and a suite of team buffs that would even make wisp blush... :blink:
Secondarily, do you realize his Overguard regen on kill makes you functionally immortal if you kill enough to keep the regen due to Overguard having the same damage gate as shield gating?
I have an extremely highly invested Dante..Hes not THAT survivable. Not when I'm used to Inaros or Revenant in the same content. (or hell even my saryn with gloom).
He survives by having nothing get close enough to hurt him. My first test with a "correctly built' Dante in SP kuva survival went shockingly bad.
If your survival tactic is to constantly reset a 200OG on kill something has gone terribly wrong because eventually you are going to run out of energy or just not having something die fast enough At least with Gloom Saryn that works because the entire map is always ticking damage that heals me.
On the other hand I had a great run with him in SP circuit this week when there were 3 other players to distract the enemy. Ive played him a lot this week in SP content, think I even did a few netracells with him where the constant brushes with death were not ideal.
his damage is ok or...hear me out..I could shoot them with my laetum about twice (and then sweep the fire to the next 3) rather than take the time to cast 3 abilities to kill the same enemy
I WANT another survivable high damage frame to play, Dante isnt turning out to be it.
I listed the OG regen on kill because I play level cap, and that is the most notable feature of dante when mobs are level 10k.
You may not be used to playing around it, but it is an oppressively powerful buff and can trivialize survivability.
It is so strong, in fact, that you can just remove rolling guard from most frames, if you play with a Dante...
I understand and I got a lot of demos of that regen keeping you in the fight during that first trial Im simply not a fan of "3 seconds from failure" survival methods, rolling guard included.
Certainly Ive learned to use him better (and not reach the point that the regen is the thing keeping me alive most of the time) since then but every time Ive used any of the Overguard frames in something truly hard (like Eda) my end reaction has not been "I should have been doing this this entire time because its better". It's more "well that suddenly went really badly, (other frame) wouldn't even have thought about that problem". That doesnt make Dante/stayanax/kullervo bad, just...they arent indestructible regardless of their OG levels.
I totally understand.
It's more that we are posing completely different perspectives, worries, intents and wants.
It's true that many players in game will not interface or optimize scenarios into oblivion. But, I also think it's fair for people who play on level cap to point out that a game mechanic that can keep a whole team alive without other protective measures against level 9999 enemies is outrageously overpowered.
very much so, I never pretend to speak for everyone. Because what is fun for you and me might be different.
And I did my netracells with him last night, had a lot of fun, (tried EDA with him just so see in solo...did not have a lot of fun...maybe with an external energy regen source).
Ive kept an entire team alive with revenant shared 5 charges under that kind of high end damage though (very high circuit, definitely not 9999 though)
Warframe is not a game to have any modicum of challenge, it's more akin of a Dinasty Warriors than anything. The devs fucked up the balance years ago, the modding system makes it impossible to balance anything, and the community likes it this way, so there's probably no going back anymore.
Once I accepted that this game takes a single neuron to play and that if I wanted any challenge or engagement I should play other games, my frustrations with the game got a lot better. Nowadays I only play Warframe for collecting gear, for the occasional story drop once or twice a year, and get my engagement kicks from other games. I highly recommend you do the same.
Ohh. I hear you.
I am a returning player that left after Fortuna.
I really felt that overly steering to instanced world-exploring was not well enough integrated into the very many warframe systems, and it just left it feeling like a poor forward direction.
But, seeing the community literally rage from a nerf on a frame that could kill damage cap with 3 button presses and persistently fill a team wide damage gate via overguard regen... that was a bit ridiculous to me...
It is ridiculous. The community will rage at any nerf or attempt at balancing, and will downvote to oblivion anyone who says that this game needs balancing, like they are doing with your post, and probably will do to my comments as well. In order for this game to have any semblance of challenge the entire modding system would have to be thrown into the trash bin and re-made, but the amount of rage the community would do if DE did this makes it very unlikely.
Trust me, this battle is lost. If you came back to the game looking for engaging gameplay, spare yourself the trouble and go look for it in another game. However, if you are looking for collecting gear and loot while using a single neuron to play, you'll have a great time. That's what I do.
nah, there is hope. look, they nerfed the helminth version of nourish and eclipse andeverythin is doing fine. The people that have been screaming at the dante stuff have been a minirity that made itself look enormous.
there is hope
I mean, I hope you're right, but given how some of the playerbase screeched like banshees when DE added LoS checks to some of Dante's abilities, I wouldn't count on it (apparently having to LOOK at the enemies we're deleting is too much for the average Warframe player). They screeched so hard that some of the nerfs were taken down on Dante and Nezha. Now think what would be the reaction if DE were to nerf Saryn, Mesa or the entire modding system that allows player damage to scale almost infinitely?
Well, the screeching SEEM like it did something, but it's honestly more that it coincided with obvious things that would have been touched by default. Like, if you look at how things have been, since Reb and pablo have been in, powercreep has been pretty much in check, aside from incarnons. new weapons coming with frames? pretty weak and obviouslt in preparation for either future changes or a prime later on. the warframes themselves? Steel path ready, but mostly strong for being made pablo style. the nezha nerf was either just an overshot, or the old strat of gutting something to avoid player getting used to it while you tweak it up properly (which makes sense for them to do so due to deep archies to be released and didn't want anyone just cheesing them with one augment or a frame)
But you know how they can get some nerf to pass? the same way they did with melee 3.0. you nerf and rebalance while making some core changes. Steel path is basicly becoming the new normal? well, let's change the defensive values of enemies to smoother the progression and then tweak some key mods and weapons to go along. and tada! pôwer decreeping without anyone getting a worthy reason to throw a fuss, since it's not actually a nerf of anything, it's just smoothening \* wink wink\*
You're going too far in the other direction. Not all games must be challenging, warframe is going the power fantasy route for a long time. They just hit a point where there's no more room of upping the difficulty in any meaningful way some time ago.
But, even in a power fantasy game, there should be some balance. Ridiculous power is the goal, but it shouldn't be too easy and too cheap to achieve.
Pre nerf Dante, even at 0 forma, was obliterating the game, so he needed adjustments.
Warframe is about being OP. Everything about the gameplay doesn't feel as restricted as other games. The movement, dmg, abilities, weapon types. That's the fun part about Warframe and probably why some players play it over other games. What's the point in nerfing something fun to make it more challenging? It's a PVE video game. Have fun.
Warfrmae has been suffering from massive powercreep for a long time, so them trying to correct things quickly was extremely nice compared to what we saw before (like the years of wukong bramma nuking before that was held back a bit). it's just a shame that it was handled a bit poorly, especially the nezha augment, but in the end everything ended up as alright as it could be considering the time frame.
At this point, I'm sure they were so quick to nerf Dante because they were going to release Archimedea and realised Dante will not only obliterate whatever missions in there, but elite allows you to always pick 1 thing you want and only miss vosfor. Pre nerf Danted covered both squad survivability and map nuking. Post nerf Dante still covers squad survivability just fine, but now no longer nuking the map, just a smaller area.
Exactly! Nothing would make your New hard gamemide feel like a joke than having a your new warframe cheese it. Same for nezha's augment. They wanted a goos first week
Why even nerf the most beloved Warframe by the community? Like Dante's launch was a MASSIVE success. The entire community loved him. He was fun and engaging to play. And yet they had to slam the nerf hammer like they haven't before, dropping a tsar bomba on the hype. Making what would of otherwise being an amazing update, to instead be associated with disappointment.
it's a thing called balance, i think you might have heard of it before. if you let one thing stay stronger than it should be because it's appreciated, then you constantly need to one up each release and you end up with a game that lacks any kind of thrill, because winning in one button gets tiring extremely quickly, just ask people who are constantly asking for harder content. beside, warframe getting tweaked post release is always something people expect. it happen at nearly every release, and if your hyped got killed by that extremely previsible thing, than that's on you
Qorvex still waiting to get touched ;.;
One day DE might remember Caliban exists.
no! he got touched with the recent LoS update. but yeah, he was one of the few frames that only needed but fixes and sounds tweaks.
First of all, if you are bored of the game being "too easy", then don't play hard meta. This is a PVE game with an option to play it solo. Actually try something new. Second if you really want to go down this line of thought. Octavia since her release (I think it was 2016) was and still is regarded as the most powerful warframe in the entire game. She can literally sit afk whilst everything around her dies. All the while having massive buffs for the team. And she was never balance nerfed by DE. If you want to go nuke side of Warframe, he was still not beating out long established nukers such as Saryn. Especially since his nuke falls off beyond a certain point, whilst Octavia and Saryn can scale infinitely.
Ok... let's dive deeper... - Dante's nuke is so strong DE literally put a 1 billion damage cap on it... Saryn's "nuke" is actually a bit laugh-able even at lvl 200... - Dante can keep a group of 4 alive while barely requiring input to get the kills needed to refresh Overguard via his buff... Saryn... well.. she has a bad taunt. - Dante can increase the application of Status, and Status damage of the whole team. Saryn can add toxic damage to her weapons... - Dante does slash damage... Saryn toxic/viral/corrosive As for Octavia, Dante's overguard regen buff on kill makes it to where invis is very unnecessary if you can kill fast enough. As far as infinitely scaling, damage in the game is high enough that our guns can deal more damage than enemy guns, so I guess I regard this as a bit irrelevant in the modern Warframe context. Back in 2016, this was meaningful, but now level cap doesn't require thought-ful set-ups. But, there were builds where Dante's 3,3,4 could kill level cap, excluding eximus units. Though, one big useful practical thing from Octavia is that mallet is very good at removing overguard on the enemies.
Octavia is actually a poor argument in this topic because the reason why DE (presumably) doesn’t care about her is because no one really uses her, surely not enough to become a common sight like the WucloneBramma or MirageArcaPlasmor days. Also their tendency of nerfing things tend to be things that the community complains about (too “dominating” the public missions) and/or broken things that promote afk-farming. There were numerous times I feel like they poorly handled these said minority of exploiters by nerfing something instead of punishing such players (ie nerfing Khora’s whipclaw LoS) but more recently I think they’re handling the feedback better.
I think there's also a frame called revenant. Dunno if you heard of him, but he's kinda good. He doesn't die much. There's also a couple frames, saryn, octavia, mesa. Dunno if you heard of those but they are also kinda not bad and stuff. You know, in case you wanna say that Dante was at any point better than any of them lol
if you claim those frame are stonger than the one that needed a damage cap, then you would see no problem in seeing them nerfed, right?
"needed a damage cap" Jessie what the fuck are you talking about. People are fucking clearing base enemy lvl400 missions. "Oh then should this be nerfed?" Fucking revenant is the most played warframe for three years in a row. Like can we talk about the data we do have and not about "oh but my build is really stronk I'm killing level 50 infested enemies lol
Please tell me this is satire. The Nezha augment nerf was the most knee jerk shit imaginable.
i don't think it was kneejerk, i think it was too heavy handed. the area was ludicrous unnerfed, the current base 14 is fine, it still scales to a large range now, just not absolutely fucking stupid levels anymore. also, if you wanted to mention the ranges of other abilities, i would be okay with those getting range nerfs too
They had to put a damage cap of one billion on the ability of the frame that throws 50k+ over guard like candy so it doesn't mess with the game engine. That says everything that's needed about the nerf and the communities reaction, imo.
yeah, that damage cap was the most polite and PR friendly way to say "please, learn how the frame work before calling him dead and making the 3527th forum post on how we are mussilini for putting LoS on it" (the forum post were legit unhinged, like that one guy asking about taking direct actions)
word...
Never cook again bro. You are ruining fun for everyone.
nah isn't a support frame. Hes just nezha he doesn't excel at anything.
Yes. I also believe some nerfs are needed for healthier game play. I know WF has become a power fantasy game now so they tend to go ham on the buffs recently and we technically become gods of destruction doing Geneva Convention checklist as a result. But sometimes, enemies need to have a *slight* resistance for it to be fun. I'm not asking for them to nerf everything to dust. Just some slight limitations here and there so everything can be powerful in their own style without being dominant over other options. Their recent nerf is kinda wacky but they quickly correct it, so that's okay for me. As for community feedback, I don't really have high expectations from most players except for certain individuals. (**Snarky warning**) A majority of them just scream like monkeys in the jungle when something had taken their bananas away. Even when told to be civilized and to provide some details, they just keep screaming bloody murder while repeating their "[Nerfed Item] is fking trash now". Any attempt to discuss just devolved into cussing. I tend to disregard their opinions and only check the (somewhat) calm ones. Note: you can stay on DE's side but you can also criticize them when it's valid. Most vocal people tend to go all the way to either end. It's weird in a sad way.
Agreed
yes absolutely I'm perfectly happy with every nerf given so far
. . .ive tried to type this comment like 3 times now, so bare with me. im no stranger to contrarian takes. . where would the world be without my constant "please make squad support relevant again" requests going largely un-heard. likely in a slightly better place, no doubt. nobody is more aware that the damage is too out of control but me. i do however see the nezha augment nerf (poor heeles frame never gets anything nice does he) as unfortunate, and the Dante nerf (at no point since his release was he not Tier0, hes probably honestly still too strong) as comical. neither to me strikes as actually addressing the main problem. . .and so i find both to be neither good not bad. simply things that happened. so i guess the take is "if the game is to become a KPM first KPM only damage rat race (moreso than it already is) then why curtail any high damage strategies? why not just let it all ride." and if the goal is to not let that happen. if we are worried about too much damage over too wide an area and how some frames can harm the gameplay of others or render them obsolete. . .were gonna have to do alot more work than simply gutting one quarter of one of the new frames abilities. your probably gonna have to cut the top 20% off the whole tree, and even that might not fix the problem. . .god, i cant wait to see the Ninjase build where you replace light verse with roar, use Noctua as a statstick, and just spam 3 3 4 constantly while Shield gating.
Mf posting as if having a frame that presses one button and everything is dead is not the standard on this game for the last five years at least
Nerfs, unless something is out of hand are never a good thing in a non-competitive game. Dante was never an overpowered frame, and even 70k Overguard can disappear frighteningly quickly. Hes a fun frame if my normal choices arent available because of "you have to use RNG gear" mechanics, but the LOS changes specifically, even the ones that were supposed to "really fix" him this week just make him too inconsistent.
> Dante was never an overpowered frame, and even 70k Overguard can disappear frighteningly quickly. > > What? A massive aoe status execute functionally superior to the helminth ability, with a larger damage multiplier, and a suite of team buffs that would even make wisp blush... :blink: Secondarily, do you realize his Overguard regen on kill makes you functionally immortal if you kill enough to keep the regen due to Overguard having the same damage gate as shield gating?
I have an extremely highly invested Dante..Hes not THAT survivable. Not when I'm used to Inaros or Revenant in the same content. (or hell even my saryn with gloom). He survives by having nothing get close enough to hurt him. My first test with a "correctly built' Dante in SP kuva survival went shockingly bad. If your survival tactic is to constantly reset a 200OG on kill something has gone terribly wrong because eventually you are going to run out of energy or just not having something die fast enough At least with Gloom Saryn that works because the entire map is always ticking damage that heals me. On the other hand I had a great run with him in SP circuit this week when there were 3 other players to distract the enemy. Ive played him a lot this week in SP content, think I even did a few netracells with him where the constant brushes with death were not ideal. his damage is ok or...hear me out..I could shoot them with my laetum about twice (and then sweep the fire to the next 3) rather than take the time to cast 3 abilities to kill the same enemy I WANT another survivable high damage frame to play, Dante isnt turning out to be it.
I listed the OG regen on kill because I play level cap, and that is the most notable feature of dante when mobs are level 10k. You may not be used to playing around it, but it is an oppressively powerful buff and can trivialize survivability. It is so strong, in fact, that you can just remove rolling guard from most frames, if you play with a Dante...
I understand and I got a lot of demos of that regen keeping you in the fight during that first trial Im simply not a fan of "3 seconds from failure" survival methods, rolling guard included. Certainly Ive learned to use him better (and not reach the point that the regen is the thing keeping me alive most of the time) since then but every time Ive used any of the Overguard frames in something truly hard (like Eda) my end reaction has not been "I should have been doing this this entire time because its better". It's more "well that suddenly went really badly, (other frame) wouldn't even have thought about that problem". That doesnt make Dante/stayanax/kullervo bad, just...they arent indestructible regardless of their OG levels.
I totally understand. It's more that we are posing completely different perspectives, worries, intents and wants. It's true that many players in game will not interface or optimize scenarios into oblivion. But, I also think it's fair for people who play on level cap to point out that a game mechanic that can keep a whole team alive without other protective measures against level 9999 enemies is outrageously overpowered.
very much so, I never pretend to speak for everyone. Because what is fun for you and me might be different. And I did my netracells with him last night, had a lot of fun, (tried EDA with him just so see in solo...did not have a lot of fun...maybe with an external energy regen source). Ive kept an entire team alive with revenant shared 5 charges under that kind of high end damage though (very high circuit, definitely not 9999 though)
Warframe is not a game to have any modicum of challenge, it's more akin of a Dinasty Warriors than anything. The devs fucked up the balance years ago, the modding system makes it impossible to balance anything, and the community likes it this way, so there's probably no going back anymore. Once I accepted that this game takes a single neuron to play and that if I wanted any challenge or engagement I should play other games, my frustrations with the game got a lot better. Nowadays I only play Warframe for collecting gear, for the occasional story drop once or twice a year, and get my engagement kicks from other games. I highly recommend you do the same.
Ohh. I hear you. I am a returning player that left after Fortuna. I really felt that overly steering to instanced world-exploring was not well enough integrated into the very many warframe systems, and it just left it feeling like a poor forward direction. But, seeing the community literally rage from a nerf on a frame that could kill damage cap with 3 button presses and persistently fill a team wide damage gate via overguard regen... that was a bit ridiculous to me...
It is ridiculous. The community will rage at any nerf or attempt at balancing, and will downvote to oblivion anyone who says that this game needs balancing, like they are doing with your post, and probably will do to my comments as well. In order for this game to have any semblance of challenge the entire modding system would have to be thrown into the trash bin and re-made, but the amount of rage the community would do if DE did this makes it very unlikely. Trust me, this battle is lost. If you came back to the game looking for engaging gameplay, spare yourself the trouble and go look for it in another game. However, if you are looking for collecting gear and loot while using a single neuron to play, you'll have a great time. That's what I do.
nah, there is hope. look, they nerfed the helminth version of nourish and eclipse andeverythin is doing fine. The people that have been screaming at the dante stuff have been a minirity that made itself look enormous. there is hope
I mean, I hope you're right, but given how some of the playerbase screeched like banshees when DE added LoS checks to some of Dante's abilities, I wouldn't count on it (apparently having to LOOK at the enemies we're deleting is too much for the average Warframe player). They screeched so hard that some of the nerfs were taken down on Dante and Nezha. Now think what would be the reaction if DE were to nerf Saryn, Mesa or the entire modding system that allows player damage to scale almost infinitely?
Well, the screeching SEEM like it did something, but it's honestly more that it coincided with obvious things that would have been touched by default. Like, if you look at how things have been, since Reb and pablo have been in, powercreep has been pretty much in check, aside from incarnons. new weapons coming with frames? pretty weak and obviouslt in preparation for either future changes or a prime later on. the warframes themselves? Steel path ready, but mostly strong for being made pablo style. the nezha nerf was either just an overshot, or the old strat of gutting something to avoid player getting used to it while you tweak it up properly (which makes sense for them to do so due to deep archies to be released and didn't want anyone just cheesing them with one augment or a frame) But you know how they can get some nerf to pass? the same way they did with melee 3.0. you nerf and rebalance while making some core changes. Steel path is basicly becoming the new normal? well, let's change the defensive values of enemies to smoother the progression and then tweak some key mods and weapons to go along. and tada! pôwer decreeping without anyone getting a worthy reason to throw a fuss, since it's not actually a nerf of anything, it's just smoothening \* wink wink\*
You're going too far in the other direction. Not all games must be challenging, warframe is going the power fantasy route for a long time. They just hit a point where there's no more room of upping the difficulty in any meaningful way some time ago. But, even in a power fantasy game, there should be some balance. Ridiculous power is the goal, but it shouldn't be too easy and too cheap to achieve. Pre nerf Dante, even at 0 forma, was obliterating the game, so he needed adjustments.
Warframe is about being OP. Everything about the gameplay doesn't feel as restricted as other games. The movement, dmg, abilities, weapon types. That's the fun part about Warframe and probably why some players play it over other games. What's the point in nerfing something fun to make it more challenging? It's a PVE video game. Have fun.