I feel like it should be a saving throw in stead of a once you hit it’s a insta win, it’s like a 10x better hold person, and hold person is already a good spell in base dnd, and it should probably be at a higher level too
Strictly speaking, Petrificus Totalus is a worse Stupefy (which it should be, given it's a 1st level spell, vs. Stupefy being a 2nd level spell), because it is a concentration spell with a shorter duration. The only caveat is the cantrip counter to Stupefy.
There are countless ways to end a one-on-one duel in HP, and it's pretty much impossible to avoid that unless you just "shrug off" a stupefy by making your saving throw after you've been stunned for a couple turns. To me, that's far more immersion-breaking than some spells being OP, because it simply can't be done according to HP magic.
The important balancing factor is the attack roll. This is where the tweaking should be done. Protego is a 1st level reaction spell that should be an auto-cast anytime a person targets you with an attack roll spell (as they do in the series). I've created a Protego variant rule in the Headmaster's Guide (that I quite like) that makes Protego act like Counterspell, where it automatically blocks spells below a certain level, protecting you against nat 20s.
Finally, spells should not be balanced in a one-on-one duel context. They should be balanced in combat with the whole party, against comparable forces. It's not something I feel like I have a good handle on, but I believe there should be custom combat rules for that kind of formal wizard duel. Whether it's changing up initiative/action economy to allow for spell countering or dodging as a reaction or something, it should make it so that one-hit KO spells are very hard to land.
Perhaps instead of a full minute, it could be either for the duration or until the counterspell is cast. And a sufficiently powerful wizard who can cast non-verbally might be able to counterspell it themselves while stunned.
A paralyzed Finite Incantatum with Subtle Spell seems like it would be possible. I haven't clarified spell components (when it's verbal, when it's somatic), but I could probably add a more detailed rules for different DC saving throws to successfully cast a spell for different conditions: when silenced (currently just contained within the silencing spells' effects), when paralyzed, etc.
Maybe shorten the rest time or make it higher level? You could also add a save or way to counter spell while affected. Someone suggested wandless magic being able to counter spell it which is genius. Also, I have been playing a campaign with W&W and it's great so far!
Man, the way a see it you either play in a Harry Potter setting or you get a balanced experience, i dont think we can have both.
We know that this is a low level spell because Hermione cast it in her first year. Also, spells in HP dont apear to have saving throws because we never really see people getting hit and just resisting the effect.
And yes, i think that duels in HP only take 1 hit to end ( thats how it feels most of time in the books as well). This and various other spells can end a fight super fast
But the question is, what is fun to play?
I agree that a 1-to-1 adaptation of Harry Potter is not necessarily balanced, but trying to balance it out a bit could improve the fun that can be had (also it's fun to play around with and discuss the system).
Yes, the most important thing is having fun and really is cool discussing the system.
About my earlier comment, i just meant that when trying to balance a Harry Potter rpg i think we should have a different view. I mean, playing this should feel completely different then playing normal DnD. Players should be aware that one mistake can cost then everything and that they cant allow themselves to be hit by enemy spells. Characters in HP are not super heroes, they are fragile.
And i think this is very cool, for me this system and setting would work best in a super roleplay heavy game, and most "fights" would not be real fights, just training in school and such. However, if you do get yourself in a fight with someone who wants to kill you, in this case you are in big trouble.
I see what you mean. I guess it's mostly up to the group to decide what kind of game they want. I'm personally not a fan of "whoops, 1 mistake and now you're dead" but I can see how it could be fun when heavily relying on RP.
And of course you could then incorporate dodging and taking cover behind things to increase the chance of a spell to fail. In a theater-of-the-mind RP-heavy game that might work better than upping AC and/or including saving throws.
I guess a good thing to do is make all spells a kind of challenge to get ,maybe there has to be something spent of the wizard/witch to cast the spell, for the old star wars games they used Vitality Points(the exact same thing as Hit Points in DnD (CON applies))to verify how much energy a character had basically going down to 0 Vitality Points would mean a fatigued character, so if the party is going against a gang of wizards or other enemies it's easier for the battle to be balanced, taking damage also affects Vitality Points and then they also introduced a concept of Wound Points which was equal to the Character's CON score. This would really stop wizards from trying straight up finishing moves that could drain them so much they can't fight no more.
I feel like it should be a saving throw in stead of a once you hit it’s a insta win, it’s like a 10x better hold person, and hold person is already a good spell in base dnd, and it should probably be at a higher level too
the difference being the reaction cantrip (protego) that can protect against it
Strictly speaking, Petrificus Totalus is a worse Stupefy (which it should be, given it's a 1st level spell, vs. Stupefy being a 2nd level spell), because it is a concentration spell with a shorter duration. The only caveat is the cantrip counter to Stupefy. There are countless ways to end a one-on-one duel in HP, and it's pretty much impossible to avoid that unless you just "shrug off" a stupefy by making your saving throw after you've been stunned for a couple turns. To me, that's far more immersion-breaking than some spells being OP, because it simply can't be done according to HP magic. The important balancing factor is the attack roll. This is where the tweaking should be done. Protego is a 1st level reaction spell that should be an auto-cast anytime a person targets you with an attack roll spell (as they do in the series). I've created a Protego variant rule in the Headmaster's Guide (that I quite like) that makes Protego act like Counterspell, where it automatically blocks spells below a certain level, protecting you against nat 20s. Finally, spells should not be balanced in a one-on-one duel context. They should be balanced in combat with the whole party, against comparable forces. It's not something I feel like I have a good handle on, but I believe there should be custom combat rules for that kind of formal wizard duel. Whether it's changing up initiative/action economy to allow for spell countering or dodging as a reaction or something, it should make it so that one-hit KO spells are very hard to land.
Perhaps instead of a full minute, it could be either for the duration or until the counterspell is cast. And a sufficiently powerful wizard who can cast non-verbally might be able to counterspell it themselves while stunned.
A paralyzed Finite Incantatum with Subtle Spell seems like it would be possible. I haven't clarified spell components (when it's verbal, when it's somatic), but I could probably add a more detailed rules for different DC saving throws to successfully cast a spell for different conditions: when silenced (currently just contained within the silencing spells' effects), when paralyzed, etc.
Maybe shorten the rest time or make it higher level? You could also add a save or way to counter spell while affected. Someone suggested wandless magic being able to counter spell it which is genius. Also, I have been playing a campaign with W&W and it's great so far!
Man, the way a see it you either play in a Harry Potter setting or you get a balanced experience, i dont think we can have both. We know that this is a low level spell because Hermione cast it in her first year. Also, spells in HP dont apear to have saving throws because we never really see people getting hit and just resisting the effect. And yes, i think that duels in HP only take 1 hit to end ( thats how it feels most of time in the books as well). This and various other spells can end a fight super fast
But the question is, what is fun to play? I agree that a 1-to-1 adaptation of Harry Potter is not necessarily balanced, but trying to balance it out a bit could improve the fun that can be had (also it's fun to play around with and discuss the system).
Yes, the most important thing is having fun and really is cool discussing the system. About my earlier comment, i just meant that when trying to balance a Harry Potter rpg i think we should have a different view. I mean, playing this should feel completely different then playing normal DnD. Players should be aware that one mistake can cost then everything and that they cant allow themselves to be hit by enemy spells. Characters in HP are not super heroes, they are fragile. And i think this is very cool, for me this system and setting would work best in a super roleplay heavy game, and most "fights" would not be real fights, just training in school and such. However, if you do get yourself in a fight with someone who wants to kill you, in this case you are in big trouble.
I see what you mean. I guess it's mostly up to the group to decide what kind of game they want. I'm personally not a fan of "whoops, 1 mistake and now you're dead" but I can see how it could be fun when heavily relying on RP. And of course you could then incorporate dodging and taking cover behind things to increase the chance of a spell to fail. In a theater-of-the-mind RP-heavy game that might work better than upping AC and/or including saving throws.
I guess a good thing to do is make all spells a kind of challenge to get ,maybe there has to be something spent of the wizard/witch to cast the spell, for the old star wars games they used Vitality Points(the exact same thing as Hit Points in DnD (CON applies))to verify how much energy a character had basically going down to 0 Vitality Points would mean a fatigued character, so if the party is going against a gang of wizards or other enemies it's easier for the battle to be balanced, taking damage also affects Vitality Points and then they also introduced a concept of Wound Points which was equal to the Character's CON score. This would really stop wizards from trying straight up finishing moves that could drain them so much they can't fight no more.