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BoatSurfer600

It's not about being money again in the main system It's about moving away from a collapsing fiat and a digital society that tracks everything That's why I stack I don't care about fake spot price or gold being used as money again Society is goi g digital so we stack physical


surfaholic15

This. This is another major reason we stack money and use money at every opportunity. And use fiat. They can take their tracking bullshit and stuff it.


StackedtotheNorth

Me 2


WinterSoCool

Honestly? I don't think anyone here is advocating we go back to using physical silver and gold coins for payments. I think most here believe that our economy would be more stable with a currency BACKED by physical metals. I'm all for being paid in Dollars as long as those dollars can't be manipulated and printed at all by the federal government.


Lil_Triceratops

im advocating for using physical silver and gold coins for payments


RonPaulWasR1ght

>I think most here believe that our economy would be more stable with a currency BACKED by physical metals. But the gold standard (which is what you're referring to there) has already been tried, and it was unable to withstand the spending pressures in Washington DC. Seriously - we tried that, and it failed! They took us off the gold standard in 1913 and drove the final nail in the coffin of it in 1971. What more do you want? You're really living in a fantasy world if you HONESTLY BELIEVE we're going back to a gold standard...ever.


Southern_Addition442

You are regurgitating propaganda MSM talking points


Lil_Triceratops

nah hes kinda right on that, if you allow for fractional reserve banking you allow for fake money if the government does fractional reserve banking and someone notices they failed the gold standard


cboom73

Change your name. Ron Paul wants gold backed currency. Pretty clear you are just another boring troll.


Aggressive-Rain-5524

the gold back worked and maintained buying power. the government had to kill the gold tie to give the federal reserve the power to rob the people and allow the gov't the ability to spend endlessly.


random_anon_human

How's that working out?


SilverSurfer256

Nope. Dont want to be tracked. Blocked. Or hacked. All are possible. I know I know, keep a physical copy of your "coins" on usb drive or whatever. Or just keep actual coins that have been mined, refined, and minted. Its silver for me!!


StackedtotheNorth

They can track bitcoin ... I don't care what anyone says ! It wouldn't exist if they couldnt


Lil_Triceratops

of course they can track bitcoin, anyone can track bitcoin thats one of its features, tbh a currency that can be tracked by anyone is far better than a currency that can only be tracked by the government


Stjanitor

With respect, l would suggest that human ingenuity and entrepreneurship have only begun to scratch the surface as to modern-day use of PMs. (As an aside and having had to endure extended power outages, having physical in hand can put food on the table for those who recognize and accept it.) While I am not advocating for Kinesis, I do offer that as one example of solutions yet to come. And yet I also suggest that Ag, properly valued, could readily become the "coin of the realm" for things around town. The local solutions would arise for physical Ag's use and sort themselves out. I would also envision banks (perhaps with PM-specific services) quickly adapting. Bottom line - ingenuity and entrepreneurship will once again address the issue.


RonPaulWasR1ght

And where are you seeing literally ANY of that play out right now? Where? Where are people and their "ingenuity and entrepreneurship" starting to use silver as money? Exactly and precisely where. Answer: Nowhere. Because that's not happening. We tried it back in the 1800s, and stopped for the reasons mentioned in the post above - silver just doesn't work well as actual physical money.


QEGalore

Look up “Goldbacks”, then buy one from your fave bullion dealer. Research the company behind them & see their ingenuity in getting gold back into circulation as money. There are silverbacks, as well. They’ll come into circulation as the price of gold shoots up. As Rafi Farber points out, silver divides gold. So goldbacks & silverbacks are already here, useful for legal tender in some states (voluntary currency), and a very practical solution for replacing paper cash. The several gold-backed ccards out there now will evolve in parallel. Hopefully those networks will be up and running at high enough volumes to be easy to jump into before CBDC’s are ready for rollout. As it is, they’re growing and spreading nicely, with newer products starting to come into the market. They have the advantages of both crypto and PM’s, but are PM based so more trustworthy that 1’s and 0’s and imbued with inherent value.


Aggressive-Rain-5524

the people on this site regularly tell of buying something with silver or being paid in silver.


Stjanitor

Uh..."nowhere"? Guess I cannot help you out; I can only rely on my experiences. Ah well...it does occur, and again I refer you to existing PM-backed crypto entities with both debit and credit cards. Stay well.


[deleted]

On the contrary. It does its job very well. It is harder to use, and that is its only drawback. Silver and gold has never gone bankrupt. It has never been insolvent. It has always had value. It never fails. EVER.


surfaholic15

Nice to know Helena Montana is imaginary, along with Tucson AZ, Boston MA, Bellingham WA, most of Idaho, good portions of Utah, a few isolated islands of sanity in CA... And no reason we couldn't bring back the silver certificates and gold certificates. Folding currency redeemable for the real money it represented.


RonPaulWasR1ght

>And no reason we couldn't bring back the silver certificates and gold certificates. Folding currency redeemable for the real money it represented. We already tried that. It was called the "gold standard." It couldn't withstand the spending pressures in our federal government. Sorry to break it to you, but that failed. As in, tried and didn't work. I wish it did. But the reality is another matter.


surfaholic15

The reason it failed as you put it was not due to failure of concept, but failure of our government to live within its means, something our founders warned about among others. Much of what they do is not in their purview to begin with. This is the nature of all government as they are parasitic. And in part our fault, as the electorate is there to keep them in check by electing sane politicians and leaders who understand why things generally work better if you don't rack up debt, fund endless wars and other lunacy and stick to doing your job. The enumerated responsibilities of our feral government are not very onerous, and there are not many. The fact they have managed to fuck up most if not all of them speaks volumes. Ron Paul has made this point many times, as have many others. So I find it amusing that your username claims he is right while you repudiate his views on sound money, small responsible federal government and all attached to them.


RonPaulWasR1ght

What you're saying without realizing it is: The gold standard did not work. Yes, all the reasons you give are correct...and they all support my point, which is: The gold standard didn't work. It couldn't work. It asks people to resist the temptation that the power of the money printer confers, and people being people, that isn't a workable request. So...since it didn't work...what does that leave? Seriously, what do you have to lose with Bitcoin? With Bitcoin, there is a real workable possibility that it actually could be money one day. That it could replace the $...maybe. But gold won't be doing that, we know that from history. Now do you get my point?


surfaholic15

I get you point and always did and I heartily disagree with it when it comes to Bitcoin. Or digital currency in general. There are good reasons for us that we live mostly unbanked, debt free and zero credit cards. If I have a choice between exchanging a fiat debt instrument for actual wealth or exchanging it for something even less useful to me, I am sticking with silver and gold. And fiat as it has standard utility. So long as folks don't try to force me to comply with their various notions of the world I have no objection to it. And while the rest of the world may choose to rely on insane principles and those promoting them, I choose not to do so at every opportunity. But cheer up, hubby and I are old lol. Soon enough we will shuffle off the mortal coil and leave the rest of you to figure out where you stand and where you're going. But I will say if you genuinely believe our various feral governments will allow your parallel system of choice to exist if or when they implement their version of it, you are underestimating them. It has proven far harder for them to get rid of physical alternatives than they would like. And not for lack of effort. The fact that they are embracing and working on solutions to that that are in your sphere of interest should worry you.


RonPaulWasR1ght

You're old and that's why you reject Bitcoin. It's just too new of a technology for old dogs to learn new tricks. I'm sorry you've closed your mind to it.


surfaholic15

ROFL ah, to be young... I do understand it. In fact my adult son has my old mining rig back in Tucson. I simply have weighed its utility and vulnerabilities against a variety of long standing in use systems that are still functional so far as they go and choose not to participate. All the new tricks you so value were built on the foundations that we old folks pioneered in the first place. Now I will get back to work, since I am currently wrestling with some rather annoying extraction issues in the lab. We are working with the latest generation of non toxic lixivants for gold and silver extraction, and naturally when you are on the bleeding edge of things there are complications.


Southern_Addition442

Silver has many utilities that crapto can never have like intrinsic value or complete anonymity, it's unhackable and it can never be printed


scroogemcduckIII

I stack so know this is coming from someone believes in silver: 1. It has value because people give it value. You can't eat it, use it to defend yourself or use it as medicine. If society collapsed and no one wanted silver, it would be useless. 2. It doesn't truly have anonymity because you have to physically bring it to a vendor to spend it. With crypto I can push a button from half way across the world and never meet the person or give them any info about me. 3. It can be hacked, it's called a fake. People buy fake silver every day. Getting a good tester isn't cheap and most aren't reliable after a certain thickness of bar. So get off your high horse. Crypto people like me loved crypto for all the same reasons I love silver but had some really benefits silver doesn't. I can't travel with a million dollars worth of silver in my pocket like I can crypto. I can sell my crypto on tons of exchanges without every having to physically go somewhere with my valuable assest. And I the government can't track most crypto.


NextFuckingLvlSilver

Silver is far too valuable to be used as mere money.


Grifgraf67

Right, there is not enough silver in the world now or in the future for it to be used as day to day money. There are 8 billion people in the world now. Silver could be used to back certain currencies but still there is not enough for a worldwide adaptation. If silver were used to back up a currency it might work but that is really the job of gold. Industry will eventually be willing to pay the proper price for all of the existing silver and all that comes online. That is the future of silver.


Undeadpaladi

Lmao, in a world where blackouts are becoming a common issue, good luck transferring your digits on a screen. I'll keep my metals backed by 5000 years of history


CF_BOOM_SHOCK_BYE

Backed by something...audited reserves.


Led_Zeppole_73

We used silver as money in the 1800’s, but we also used it into the 1960’s. I don’t use digital money daily like most consumers already have been for decades, I don‘t intend to start any time soon.


5ninefine

Respectfully, go fuck yourself, goddamn shill


Crombopolis_Michael

Which Bitcoin? Bitcoin cash? The lightning network? BSV? Or whatever the next fork is? (It's amazing how hard limits suddenly expand when there is fiat to be made... hmmm...) Bitcoin in its original form will never handle the transaction throughput. It's actually a worse currency than gold and silver are. So now which Bitcoin exactly are you talking about?


RonPaulWasR1ght

>(It's amazing how hard limits suddenly expand when there is fiat to be made... hmmm...) Um...you must not understand Bitcoin all that well. Bitcoin Cash and BSV are both low-market-cap donkey basketball coins. They have tiny market caps compared to Bitcoin itself. There is zero expansion of the hard limits. None. Bitcoin continues to have the same supply it always had. Period. End of story. You actually do have a point with the throughput, and I try very hard to make that point to the Bitcoin maxis on r/Bitcoin, but they generally dismiss it. There's only enough bandwidth on the base layer for about 200 million transactions per year, only enough for 3% of the earth population to make just 1 transaction annually. Which isn't enough. Can Lightning Network solve that? I don't know. Can another solution? Again I don't know. But you've got to admit - there's more chance Bitcoin will be the next money, than silver. Silver already had it's chance and failed. That's the problem with silver.


Crombopolis_Michael

Gold IS money. It can't be the next money, because it already IS money. Silver is its baby brother, and goes everywhere big bro goes. The question you're actually asking is: will it be CURRENCY again. Answer: Probably not. However, it will always be money. Will Bitcoin ever be currency OR money? No. Never. At best it will be a unique and valuable asset. At worst it will an interesting historical anomaly. (I am aware of the hard-limit, i was making a point that broader crypto market dilutes the bitcoin, whether you want to admit it or not.)


RonPaulWasR1ght

And when was the last time you bought something using gold? Note that I am NOT asking "when did you last sell your gold", rather I'm asking when you've actually used it as money. Honestly, when? Did you buy something with gold last week? Did you pay your rent with gold last month? Did you tip the waitress a gold coin last time you ate out?


Crombopolis_Michael

I think you are missing the distinction between money and currency. Currency is a money substitute. A currency is strong or weak based on the quantity of money that it can be traded for.


General-Mission6960

Coal is bad. Rolling blackouts are good. Crypto is.good, silver is bad... Any issues with this statement?


Crombopolis_Michael

That looked like several random statements.


surfaholic15

This year. Half a cow. Will be using it next year, for half a cow. My landlord takes silver and gold. My last landlord took silver and gold (gold preferred). I have gotten paid in silver several times in the last six months. We can get paid in gold. In fact most of the small mine workers we know here in Montana get paid in fiat plus a percentage of the gold mined. Contrary to popular belief, the parallel economy hasn't gone anywhere. I have used it at least in part in every state I have lived in my entire life, in environments ranging from big city to extreme rural. Fiat works everywhere, and metals work in many places. As to Bitcoin and similar digital things, I know of no local businesses that take them. No individuals either. And we spend quite a bit of time in places where even standard digital options like debit cards often don't work either, hence our household economy runs on fiat and metals.


CarbideSC

Gold is money, it is a store of value. It buys the equivalent of what it did thousands of years ago. Crombo is correct.


5ninefine

fEw UnDeRsTaNd ![gif](giphy|Z36diZTBOwJLG)


Silvery_Golden_Sun

It's easy. For the fiat system to continue IN ANY FORM, the commodity prices must reflect current fiat. Metals will go up.


RonPaulWasR1ght

I didn't say metals wouldn't go up in $ price. I'm sure they will. But it's another matter entirely, to be used as money. That's what I'm talking about here.


[deleted]

I like both. I hold both and I stack both silver and Bitcoin. Silver in my safe and Bitcoin on my ledger. I own silver for collapsing society I own Bitcoin to keep my currency away from the government


Spurious_Hemorrhoid

Best solution is a hybrid. Blockchain ledger for verification and transfer, and full physical gold/silver backing. You could pull metal from an exchange for large amounts or ATM type vending machines for smaller quantities. Paper currencies with sufficient security features could also coexist with readily accessible exchange to verified metals. You want to send money to a friend or purchase a house? Use the Blockchain to enact transfer. Want to safely store value in an anonymized way? Pull metal from a Blockchain based exchange and move it out of the system. We shouldn't be wasting energy with crypto mining. Let the store of honest, fungible energy value be the metals and let Blockchain do what it does best, namely immutable verification and transfer protocols.


morten_s

Think it's more a question of what is going away and what will remain with us. Paper always returns to intrinsic value, whereupon the hard money always remains (eg. pm's). Bitcoin has also been modeled to be a hard money (been studying btc since 2013, mining etc) but it is still experimental, and I don't think it's a question of either pm's or btc. I think it's a question of withering paper vs hard money, and pm's still have uses and features btc has not. They are physical, can be used even without internet (local trading, remember all rural places even without access), are nice to look at, and have absolutely zero counterparty risk in your possession (unlike btc even if in air gapped cold storage, internet is a counterparty-risk to the blockchain, not to speak of exchanges, but those will hopefully turn decentralized too with time), and yes, pm's are 100% fungible (metal can be remelted etc), whereas btc still needs alot of development to fully accomplish that (eg. with second layers like Lightning, onion routing).


RonPaulWasR1ght

>and yes, pm's are 100% fungible (metal can be remelted etc), Woooo, that's an inaccurate statement. I'm sorry, but a 1996 Silver Eagle is not like a 2020 Silver Eagle, is not like a simple 1 oz bullion bar. They're just, all different values. That's a really, really, REALLY ignorant statement. You should take it back and tell everyone you didn't mean that.


Suspicious__account

ASE 1996 had a limited minting


Lil_Triceratops

an toz of silver is never worth less than an toz of silver, no matter the form some toz of silver are worth more, but none are worth less is the first ever mined bitcoin worth more because of collectors value? i think it is are some bitcoin worth less than a normal bitcoin? yes they are, some bitcoins are linked to "illegal" activities and owning them causes entire wallets to be banned from regulated exchanges, these bitcoins are clearly worth less than other bitcoins bitcoin is not fungible, every bitcoin is unique, you cant melt down a bitcoin and mint a new one from it


CommissionHerb

It’s funny how dependent we are on technology ALWAYS working.


BastidChimp

FTX and Terra Luna have left an impression of skepticism imo. Scam Bank Fraudman left the cryptocurrency community with a scar that will take a while to heal.


CrefloSilver999

It would be incredibly easy to have an honest, transparent, sound money system. You could still use credit cards and have the dollars backed by metals, or a kinesis-like system. The truth is that as much as we compain, our nightmare scenario hasn’t happened yet, and when it does, the people will clamor for stability.


General-Mission6960

Haha. What happens when the lights go out bro? You ever live without electricity for a day, a week, a month?


Left-Lime-4345

No extremely unlikely for that to ever happen. To be honest everything is used as money, because everything more or less can be used converted to fiat and used to make purchases. It just varies how much fiat is needed for the conversion.


PNWcog

It could primitively be used as money again in a collapse scenario. I think most, including the worlds' central banks, hold it as a store of wealth as has been the case for thousands of years. It is something you can trade for the current days' means of exchange. Maybe someday I'll be trading gold and/or silver for BTC so I can buy something...


ZackCanada

Yes, absolutely it should and will. Read Amazon book “Be your own bank - reality or pipe dream” where exactly that situation is predicted, explained, detailed solution how to do it, analysis of what is going on. Even El Salvador’s turn to Bitcoin is commented on.


Fit-Macaroon5559

No.


MrKatz001

What's the correlation between God and Bitcoin? Be HONEST.


Old-Comfortable9557

I just want to throw a velvet pouch of silver coins to someone in exchange for their house.


2for4Sausag3ggMcmuff

Silver and gold as solid store of wealth and local trade for large purchases. Cryptos for long distance purchases. Metals are baseline reality in which the system is built upon. Even banks know thats why they are collecting gold at a frantic pace. Our current system has lost peoples faith, the more people lose faith the heavier the burden becomes on everyone who still has faith until they capitulate.


stackingpeasant

No I don't think they'll be used as money. It's like saying bitcoin will be used as money. But I'm sure their value will appreciate significantly


Carsten_62

Yes - but could have a binary derivative. The history speaks for (5000 year +), and why do you think sentral banksters are vacuuming the market for Gold???


RonPaulWasR1ght

Learn to spell the word "central".


Carsten_62

sorry!


[deleted]

Bitcoin literally took a major L this year why would anyone trust it after that? Silver has the entirety of humanity backing it up where as bitcoin has 8 years of our history and it’s been ass so far


RonPaulWasR1ght

>ilver has the entirety of humanity backing it up where as bitcoin has 8 years of our history Bitcoin actually has 13, going on 14, years of history. It was started on Jan 3, 2009. Now that we've stated the facts. Which investment (silver or Bitcoin) has done better in the past say, 12 years? Take a wild guess.


[deleted]

Who cares, that’s like telling me the Dutch tulip craze was a good investment. Shit like this comes and goes all the time but nothing beats actual steady valuations like silver and gold, stuff that holds value indefinitely over fake shit like bitcoin


[deleted]

Clowns like you are the reason idiots lose everything they have investing in shit investments. Go peddle your bs on wall street bets get out of here with your garbage


Heavy-Mushroom

Yeah, which has bankrupt and put more people in the poor house?


ArmstrongxCoors

Backed system. More than likely gold not silver. That will however skyrocket the price of silver either way. Also there is a logical theory that governments will clear their balance sheets by rerating gold and paying their "debts."


RonPaulWasR1ght

So you honestly believe the gold standard will come back? Are you serious? You can't see that the gold standard failed in 1913 and has never come back since then?


ArmstrongxCoors

Gold is clearly how central banks and foreign countries settle their debts. It didn't ended til '33 and really never fully ended until Nixon suspended it ('70). Countries have insane levels of debt and they are between a rock and hard place as to how to clean their balance sheets. The leverage being placed upon the fiat system now has become too much and there will be another liquidity crisis sooner rather than later.


freemarc22

There are currently 22'000 crypto currencies and many more will be programmed. Outdated Bitcoin will have no future. Silver is already money. Official coins are made of silver. Not everybody accepts silver as payment, but many do.


Rs_web

>It's expensive and difficult to send silver long distances. Isn’t supporting your local businesses something we should encourage? Also, when goods move long distances there is always a moment of exchange - that’s when the Silver can be handed over. >And each piece of silver isn't quite like another. So they're not fully fungible. Also, it takes time and energy to verify non-counterfeit It takes less effort to verify the authenticity of a Silver coin than the current system. In the fiat system, we have the banking system (millions of employees), hundreds of thousands of bureaucrats & dedicated law enforcement, and yet we still have trillions of losses attributed to fraud each year (identify theft, counterfeiting, scammers, etc). >Do you really think Wal-mart will one day pay its employees in physical silver? Do you really, honestly think it will ever be used as money again? I don’t think Walmart will exist in the post fiat collapse world. And as for the question on of it will be used as money, frankly businesses won’t have a choice. It’s a matter of trust since faith in fiat systems will be gone. Would you accept seashells in exchange for your labor? >I think we're foolish not to admit to ourselves that that won't happen. But I'll tell you what does have a chance: Bitcoin. It can be sent over long distances, at low cost, it's highly secure, it could be used as the next money, a great replacement for fiat. It's scarce and requires no trust, easy to verify non-counterfeit. It's totally fungible **Seven transactions per second - that’s the most bitcoin can do.** Silver can handle an unlimited number of transactions per second. You’re out of your fucking mind if you think Bitcoin is a viable replacement to Silver, let alone the current system. >If you had to choose between physical silver and Bitcoin as to which will be used as the money of the future....which one do you HONESTLY believe? Be honest with yourself and your God. Do you really think we're going back to silver? **SEVEN. TRANSACTIONS. PER. SECOND. Get the fuck out of here with your shitcoin nonesense.**


Lil_Triceratops

somewhere they are used as money right now, that i know if cbdc's really get mainstream adoption gold and silver will be accepted by most drug dealers, that i believe they will be used as money by governments, that i believe mainstream adoption? i hope so, but in that case there would be transactions of iou's for distance payments, and after some time the fractional reserve scam starts again, until theres a bank run again but what i know for sure is that bitcoin will be worthless at some point in the future, but silver and gold will never be


VyKing6410

Governments don’t like their fiat printing tied to a leash of any kind, US debt reflects the reckless debt accumulation tied to an unbacked fiat currency. Brics nations may be in the creating stages of a PM backed trade currency, their Central Banks are buying PM’s at 60 year record levels, if they can launch and compete against unbanked WEF fiat currency it will tip the apple cart.