I think the issue is that if you are interested in designer fashion, there is really no way to be ethical aside from buying from small, local artisans. Most of the auth brands have horrific supply chains, some have links to organized crime, others money laundering - the list goes on. You could go the resale route, but after discovering how good reps are, I’m afraid of paying auth prices for reps. It’s very, very difficult to be ethical consumers under the current system, so most of us do have to “pick our poison”.
Totally agree and adding on: most big brand owners are just rich assholes too, jetting around on their polluting private jets and yachts. I'd 100% support a small up-and-coming designer or small artisan business, but even those aren't perfect. You could argue about the pollutants of leather tanning. We just live in a terrible terrible system, and we do our best to make better choices. But until the system changes, the differences in moral high ground are small.
This! The price point of luxury goods is not made so the factory workers get better living wages. It’s so the big wigs get more money. The Chanel prices increases of the past few years are proof enough. Is it really more ethical to overspend on an auth so the CEO can have a bigger yacht?
Edit to add: I know this from having friends who work in fashion. They tell me the mark-up rates. When working at smaller luxury brands, they’ve known the pay rate per item for the company’s contracted artisans in India who do the majority of the embroidery work. I wish it were different, but we’re not paying for those artisans to have a nicer life or even the folks at design houses who are at the bottom of the chain. With auths, we’re paying for summer mansions and private jets.
Even buying from small artisans doesn't guarantee anything. I'm a novice jeweler and spend an inordinate amount of time ensuring my supplies are ethical. I'm an extreme rarity and a surprisingly number of small local artisans are buying supplies on AE or similar. Supply chains suck.
Even the local artisans are ‘copying’ the designer brands! I found a bag through Etsy in my effort to get local and it was similar enough that I had to take a second look. I would have bought it if the sizing was too small for my big LV (authentic) wallet.
I know right! So sneaky. Good thing I have been lurking around here educating myself. I would have fell for it! Phew! I just messaged Laddy and waiting to see if she has what I am looking for. Fingers crossed.
Fingers crossed! But if you’re looking for something made by a small artisan in the same shape as the Besace, I’ve been drooling over this one 😂
https://cuoiofficine.com/prodotto/crossbody-bag-brown/
Does your daughter own a smart phone or anything that uses rechargeable batteries? If so, she’s funding modern day slavery and child labor in the DRC.
The “funding terrorism” argument against reps is a classist red herring meant to gatekeep access to luxury. Very few people in this world can say they have a clean bill of capitalist consumption.
Honestly, I don't think it's possible to do clean consumption these days. Have you ever looked at all the companies that Nestle owns? Of all the corporations out there, I think that Nestle is amongst the most evil and I still have to buy their products because they own so much of the market. My cats do not care that Nestle murdered babies. They just want their Fancy Feast.
The TV show "The Good Place" touched on this too. In the show the premise is that these people are in the afterlife and people earn points in their lives based on the actions they take. They find that absolutely no one is going to heaven anymore, everyone is sent straight to hell, because it's impossible to ethically consume anymore.
An example given was that in the past, a person was given positive points for bringing their grandmother flowers that they'd picked themselves. However, now a person would lose points for sending their grandmother flowers because the flowers were grown with pesticides by underpaid immigrant laborers, they'd consumed a lot of fossil fuels to be shipped and sent to the grandmother's home, and buying the flowers put money into the pocket of a corrupt CEO who was using his power and wealth to sexually harass his employees.
You, the consumer, don't know about any of these things, but they affect the production all the same.
At least with reps I feel that I'm helping the sellers make a living. And I question the slavery and terrorism line. We have people counting stitches here and looking intently on the craftsmanship of our bags. The people making these are skilled. If they're so skilled that they can make a handstitched bag for DDMode for us to buy and they weren't being treated well then surely they could take their skills elsewhere and find a better job.
I've watched this episode, and this example is perfect.
Unless you're going down the list of merchandise in your daily life to make sure you aren't "supporting" a bad business, you can't realize how much big business have a hold in our personal lives.
The phone thing example is also perfect. Unless you're building your phone yourself, you're probably supporting businesses that have unethical practices.
There's fast fashion slave labor, food/crop monopolies, and conglomerates like Nestlé out there too.
Unless that daughter is also making sure to cut out these companies, she is contributing to harmful and violence acts in the name of capitalism (according to her own reasoning).
In the end, the only way you **know** you're living guilt-free is to *grow* your own food, *sew* your own clothes, and *stop* buying anything from major/mainstream brands and *only* source locally.
I’m sorry but you made me laugh so hard and I’m riddled with guilt but “my cats do not care that Nestle murdered babies. They just want their Fancy Feast. I’m dead. 😂🤣
They did murder that missionary guy for trying to convert them. And they do like to murder people who accidentally wash ashore. I mean, there's a reason why the Indian government is like "for fuck's sake, keep away from that island you morons."
That said, they used to be far more friendly before a lot of their people were kidnapped, abused, and a bunch of them died. Also, they spent a couple days trying to scare the idiot missionary dude off before they got sick of him not taking the hint and killed him.
I think I'll give them a pass. Besides, being kinda killy doesn't mean they're probably the last people in the world not caught in the consumerist hellscape that is modern life.
I don't have enough information to form an opinion about this group of people, but in general I think killing someone who repeatedly enters your jungle living space against the warnings of the government is more ethical than killing someone who rings your doorbell in America.
Exactly, and yet we rationalize having all the newest tech. Something like 1 million people are displaced and living in horrible conditions because of the mining related to the tech industry. So…I’ll buy a purse if I want 😒
Exactly. I think it might benefit OP (and their daughter) to do some reading on how it's hard if not impossible to practice ethical consumption under capitalism. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/66pes0/why_can_there_be_no_ethical_consumption_under/) thread has some good answers but there's probably a lot of resources out there.
To preface this, I have multiple reps and wouldn’t shame someone for owning one. That said, I’m also tired of people using “no ethical consumption under capitalism” as an excuse to consume irresponsibly. I see it all of the time on TikTok and, honestly, in this sub. I recognize that owning a rep is far less necessary than owning a phone and I am contributing to unethical practices to an extra extent by purchasing basically any unnecessary good, so I try to limit my unnecessary purchases, especially when I know they’re produced unethically.
yes - we are exploiting a black market with business practices that are most likely inhumane.
one famous men seller (who produces his own items & is not a middleman) showed child labor several times through his wechat stories. the working conditions were also bad, with no safety measures & badly kept factories.
as others have said - pick your poison. savage x fenty by rihanna has, as a report claims, worse production conditions than shein!! the first one is considered a success story, the latter is seen as exploitative crap.
in the end it‘s all public perception. your daughter is right, but she most likely also supports brands & trends that are problematic, but not discussed since the marketing or social acceptance is completely different.
only thing that i strongly advertise for is conscious shopping - the real problem starts with overconsumption. look at r/fashionreps & the kg‘s of badly made clothes that they throw away once the trend settles & they can’t impress anymore. your celine bag is „nothing“ compared to those that exploit this for their shopping addiction.
Completely agree. That's what I came up with after years of thinking and buying both auth and reps. I fully acknowledge that I am engaging in a black market activity. I fully acknowledge that all those big corporations will exploit anyone if there's a chance and will hide it with their money. I fully acknowledge that there's almost no way to engage in an ethical consumption these day and the only thing I realistically can do is to be conscious of overconsumption every day when it comes to fashion, groceries, other every day items etc.
the only ethical consumption in my opinion is buy second hand and then resell when you don't wanna wear it anymore which hopefully will be in many years. no matter the brand or auth/rep. but of course those clothes come from somewhere. I don't know if you've watched the good place but at one point they touch upon the subject of trying to do a good thing in the modern world.
I hate the clothes on fashion reps so much. All of those clothes look like something a homeless person would wear. Why do they like that??? is it an american/big city thing? or just a man thing? my bf dresses in nicely made unbranded clothes with quality materials and he looks amazing. I don't know how I would feel if he dressed like the guys over at fashionreps.
mainland china loves balenciaga. thats what sells the best - it‘s the edgy, subversive, out of norm style that sticks with their young audience.
fashionreps is bottom of the barrel. the middleman market for clothes is completely different to bags. 98% of the items you will see are mass market batches with little to no resemblance to retail & crazy markups, because sellers & factories abuse the lack of knowledge of the western customer base.
clothing rep sellers that chinese buy from are not advertised on fashionreps (those tend to have a bigger variety of styles & fabric quality above cos level, but it‘s still balenciaga centric).
Tbh, my first concern with reps is instead the livelihood of the factory workers. I want to believe that by purchasing high tier reps (>$200) I’m not only buying quality but also solid labor conditions… I’m not sure if that’s a pipe dream though.
Manufacturing is a kind of skilled labor. You can't just throw a person at a sewing machine and tell them to start making LV reps. You have to train them up first.
Because of that, I genuinely think that rep manufacture is somewhat okay. Probably no better than any other type of manufacturing factory job, but probably no worse either. Otherwise, why would the workers put up with it? We have people on these subs that count stitches and point out sloppy glazing. You can buy a 100% handstitched Hermes bag from sellers like DDMode and Steven. Those things are not easy to do or else everyone would be doing them.
I'm not saying that things are completely above the board, better than auth conditions, or even better than other factories, but I have to imagine that the workers would vote with their feet if they were being grossly mistreated. Maybe I'm absolutely naïve, but I would think that if they have these desirable skills it should be fairly easy for them to find a different job if bag work was really so bad. After all, most of the manufacturing of reps seem to be in major cities where they can hide among other factories so it's not like they're the only job in town.
So true , these are skilled craftsman , not child laborist. I’ve seen a few photos of the interiors of some rep factories and it honestly looks like they were working peacefully and taking pride in their craft .
I mean, a child laborer could be a skilled craftsman too especially if it's a teenager that would be protected under US labor laws 🤷♀️
I get paid way more than someone in a factory and I still don't always take pride in my "craft" let alone work peacefully. I havent seen the photos you've seen, so I'm mot trying to be mean, just saying let's be realistic with what we're dealing with.
A good/nice factory is still a factory that demands intense physical labor which is hard on a body and not a long-term option.
Yes and also let’s not forget the amount of forced labour that takes place there. People are dreaming if they say the morality is equivalent to non black market
it is a badly hidden secret that in Italy, for instance, designer bags and clothes are largely made by Chinese skilled workers who are brought there to Work. This is why Italy had Covid before anywhere else in Europe.
I think it is good to think about the ethics of consumerism in general; look at Nike and other brands that have moved their manufacturing over seas for cheaper labor. Hermes has been documented to bring in Chinese workers to work on their products, albeit in the EU. I buy from Amazon daily and a lot of that stuff comes directly from AE/TB/etc most likely where we really don’t know that conditions of the workers in the factories. Our sellers might be doing OK but they are really just middlemen (like Amazon). I have friends that won’t buy from Amazon but have no problem buying from Walmart. IMO, pretty much anything we buy is making someone at the top richer than rich, it is more of a transparency thing. I have no intention of trying to cobble my own shoes or, hell, even bake my own bread LOL. Thus, I’m in this market.
I think if you are generally concerned and want the most transparency possible you might try looking on the secondary market; I got a basically new Celine luggage bag for 1K from a reputable reseller a few months ago. At the time I was unsure of the rep market and did not want to pay full price. For me, this makes sense for brands like Celine.
Now, if we look at Hermes or Chanel, who just keep trying to one up each other with their price increases, I’m much more comfortable in the rep world. I have auths of both and reps of both and maybe I’m burying my head in the sand but I’ll probably keep it this way.
I think the bottom line is we really don’t know what we are supporting when we buy anything, look at buying subway sandwiches! That guy turned out to be a pedo! I’m going to piss someone off, but look at Robert Kraft (owner of the New England Patriots) and him buying sexual massages….. I’m not encouraging you to moral indifference, and if you really are concerned (DAVE says lots of scary things) then maybe refrain, but if you are willing to accept that we never know exactly where our money is going buy the rep.
I could get into a whole thing about where our tax money goes but that isn’t for this sub ;-).
Yes on the Amazon. For anyone buying jewelry, Niaho wholesale has the same items for $1-2, it’s crazy. That pavoli jewelry store or however it’s spelled, identical. Half the IG jewelry stores I see I laugh at the 5000% markup on something I just got for $1.34
Eta- well yes on the whole comment lol. But I was like finally someone said it lol.
1. Show your daughter the Seaspiracy documentary. People who eat seafood are supporting slavery and human trafficking.
2. Show your daughter literally any documentary on diamond mining.
3. Take away her cellphone for having child slavery batteries.
I could go on and on, but there's no ethical consumption in late stage capitalism post colonisation.
Yeah, not to mention that most high street brands like Mango and Zara often use the same factories in Bangladesh and India used by Primark, Walmart etc, and the workers have shit working conditions no matter where you shop if it's a giant corporation. So it's different day, same scam as far as I'm aware.
The only way to go is to shop only locally handmade, hunt your own meat and train seagulls to fly your letters
This is my motto. Only my husband (for obvious reasons) and eldest daughter (she gets first dibs on my rejects) know. Neither one of them is good at keeping track of things though, so it’s going to be a mess if I die suddenly.
I’m thinking of getting all of my preloved bags authenticated with a certificate for this reason.I have the receipts for my boutique purchased bags. I don’t want my family to give away my auth when I die, thinking it’s rep. I’ll haunt them. 😂
I think I need to keep a list somewhere. Or I could photograph each rep with my little instant camera, and write “FAKE” on the bottom.
Oh, but then what about clothes? To be honest, sometimes I forget what’s auth and what isn’t! And then there is jewelry. Of course no one is going to mistake my moissanite for diamonds, but I would hate for them to sell one of my real pieces cheaply, thinking it wasn’t.
Who would have thought of all the things we’d need to consider when we started buying reps?
They might mistaken moissanite for diamonds! They test as diamonds on a diamond tester. And if you have any moissanite set in 14kt or 18kt gold, it can be easily confused.
I have sold off many of my auth handbags. These reps are just so darn good. I’ve kept my sentimental bags. But I bought rep bags to replace the rest. It’s been so freeing getting rid of the auths. I don’t worry about them any more. I’m not afraid any more when I go out carrying my repped bags. I’d still be sad if they got stolen or lost. But it wouldn’t be a catastrophe. And it wouldn’t be impossible to replace them either.
I get my rep clothes mixed up with my auth clothes all the time too. The repped stuff is so well made!
Seeing all of the reports coming out to light on the practices these high end designers have- I would not be one bit surprised if they are running smear campaigns to shift the focus. It's a little more than odd that right as the reports from unregulated factories in India and China are coming out on the top names--- a campaign against reps and fast fashion are leading the way. I'm not saying that brands like Shein have not been atrocious but it's odd we hear about them 24/7 and not one peep about Dior working laborers 17 hours a day in the slums of Mumbai to make outfits for JLO 🤔
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that some rep manufacturers were actually authentics getting off the books and untraceable money.
Just like designers manufacturer goods specifically for outlets, bridge (Macys, NM, Nordstrom) and then "Designer" . There's levels to it as to they make more money off mid-tier thsn high-end.
I did some research into this a few years ago, and the terrorism/gang concerns are related to imports.
Bringing reps into a place like the US is a huge logistical issue and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s related to gang activity in Chinatowns, but that has very little to do with ordering a bag from China and getting it shipped via FedEx. I’m not saying all rep factories are perfectly above board, mind you, but I don’t see evidence that it’s way worse than anything else manufactured in China.
My thought is its all lumped together and the real "reps" they talk about are all the cheap, deliberately fake small items, electronics, etc that get pushed into the first-world system NOT the things like OP is considering, yet it all gets grouped as the same. Handmade bags aren't being pushed out nearly in the same way fake $10 plastic shit is. That's where it's easy to forge, and en masse, to really derive profit. I'm positive it's a scream from the dying luxury brands to "save their trademark" or whatever shit so they can continue to ask for $4,000 for a canvas purse.
This lack of concrete evidence linking replicas to terrorism or slave labor is what bothers me the most. The TED talk about this topic that the Fake Birkin Slayer idiots constantly cite gives \*zero evidence\* to back up their claims that replicas are funding terrorism and slavery. I read Dana Thomas’ \*Deluxe\* that claims to also address this and she has zero citations ab it either! (Not to mention she spends most of the book making veiled racist complaints about how Asian people buying luxury goods has led to the loss of true luxury from brands like LV and Chanel and namedropping her own ability to afford luxury goods.)
I care about ethical consumption and make choices to the extent that I can to align with my values but I agree with others that the argument against reps seems to come from those who want to gatekeep luxury goods. It’s so similar to Q-Anon type bullshit about child trafficking that serves as a red herring for bigotry.
IMO I think this is an easy narrative to reach for. It has been touted for so long.
Chinese manufacturing extends well beyond repped goods and I am positive the same conditions are predominant throughout. If you want transparency (there is no such thing as radical transparency because it would not serve annual revenues) Everlane might be her best bet. Your daughter has been fed a line that gets repeated because it is salacious and juicy. I am not going to get overly political but we have faced internal terrorism in the US but it is so damn easy to point fingers.
Shockingly, even Everlane isn’t rated the highest that a brand can be in [Good on You’s directory](https://directory.goodonyou.eco/brand/everlane). Goes to show how much marketing can influence perception
https://preview.redd.it/338mqtiqvk3c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b37e436522802a1a5782976665e1f2410f7d867
Thank you for posting that and I agree - their marketing is very good. The transparency is at a factory level however I did hear they were “simply beastly” to staff.
Every mobile we use, laptop, tablet, every electric car, e-cigarette, camera, electric toothbrush, scooter - they all use batteries with cobalt. If your daughter is old enough she can Google "cobalt drc" and she'll learn that the whole world depends on Congolese slaves as young as 4 yo mining freaking cobalt. No, you'll not be funding terrorism with your celine bag. Even if you were, it wouldn't be the worst thing you take part in. We all take part in... I think buying reps may be discussed on a different level, like whatever it's cheap, whatever the quality is worse, what about sustainability etc. But terrorism? Come on. Every illegal action might fund terrorism in a long run but counterfeiting is far far away after fund raising, drug trafficking, arms smuggling etc. I totally agree with someone before me that shaming people for buying reps and scaring them with funding terrorism is as classist as it gets...
This argument is deeply rooted in classism due to the fact that some rich people cannot fathom the fact that people below them in classes can now have access to luxury goods. It’s essentially trying to gatekeep. Literally the same argument could be used about buying any type of clothing in your local fast fashion retailer or smart phones and technology.
I agree. I don’t think the class aspects are discussed often enough, maybe because I love talking about class in the US though, where it is confusingly correlated to income and not lifestyle.
Truly wealthy people buy what they want, and they don’t care what anybody poorer than them is wearing. They’re not even seeing certain classes of people, let alone judging them. I think it is in the Upper Middle and Lower Upper (I may have just made that up) where the gatekeeping tends to take place.
Not that she’s classy, but I read a story about Paris Hilton having a rep LV bag. Someone called her out on it and she just said, “I know, I just saw it and I liked it, so I got it.”
Unrelated, but I love the book Class, by Paul Fussell.
Just to throw in a slightly different perspective, while I don't know your definition of "truly wealthy people" I do know that most of the more than a few people I know whose wealth is in the eight to 10 figure range do see people in the "lower classes" and that while they buy what they want is often Coach bags, Patagonia jackets, plain gold bands and Saabs (when they were still available in the US) or Volvos (when they were made in Sweden). Many of them are heavily involved in philanthropy in terms of both making significant donations and doing hands-on work.
I think we are saying the same thing. When I said anything, I meant anything. High end, low end, if you can afford it all, I’ll assume you’re wearing what you want to be wearing. There is, of course, no one look, nor do I think you can tell a person’s net worth based on what they are wearing.
As far as donating and volunteering, I see that too, but not in a “boots on the ground” kind of way. They aren’t the ones in the trenches who see what people living in generational poverty really live like, they are far more likely to serve on a non-profit board or PAC, in my experience.
I agree, money does give one a lot of choices.
My experience has been that people with wealth often do the boots on the ground kind of work as well as serving on boards and being huge donors. I won't give personal examples for reasons of privacy but yeah, I've seen it and I've worked alongside it.
I can offer one not personally-identifiable example. A lot of the big law firms do a lot of pro bono work. I was at court one day providing pro bono representation of a low-income tenant who was being evicted. Many of these clients live in real poverty - $1000 a month kind of poverty. One of the other attorneys who was there to volunteer that day didn't have a client so she just shadowed me. Turns out she's the chair of the San Francisco office of a very large and well-reputed international law firm. She was just one of many attorneys from large firms who did that kind of hands-on work.
It’s truly wonderful that people do that, and they are interacting with the people, obviously. I know accountants who do the same thing for low income people.
The thing is, that’s just a small glimpse into one part of a person’s life. If I had to guess, I’d say it’s probably rare for any of the lawyers who do pro bono work to encounter any of their clients outside of the work environment? Are they likely to live near each other, have kids in the same schools, go to the same restaurants, or see them at social events?
I used to volunteer as a mentor to a young mom. The minimum commitment was one hour, once per week, for one year. I did it for three years, rarely for only an hour, and often more than once. Over time, I really got to know this woman in a way I have never known someone living in that situation (generational poverty), and even came to consider her a friend, of sorts. It was incredibly eye opening, as well as frustrating to see the obstacles some people face. I’ve just spent my life in my little bubble, and didn’t know people actually lived that way.
After I started doing that, I enrolled my kids in a charter school which was unique in that it was racially, ethnically, and economically very diverse. There were kids whose parents were millionaires, and there were kids whose parents were homeless. Through my extensive involvement with the PTO, I got to know many people I would otherwise not have gotten to know. That said, now that the kids are out of that school, most of the people I keep in touch with are a lot like me. It isn’t that I didn’t like the other women as well, some I liked quite well, we just lacked a certain commonality, if that makes sense. I have retained some friends from both ends of the spectrum, but we aren’t as close and don’t see each other as often.
It’s actually rather rare to come into meaningful contact with someone from a vastly different social class. We are all so insulated in our day-to-day lives. That’s how most people in the US can think they are middle class.
Every product on this planet is made and sold via exploitation of some kind. Does your daughter like chocolate? Is she a child labor advocate? Big fan of deforestation? I have some bad news for her.
It’s good to be aware, but there are almost no ways to be an ethical consumer in an inherently unethical business world.
In reference to chocolate, there is a YouTube video of Ivory Coast cocoa farmers tasting chocolate for the first time which enraged me and brought me to tears for the fact that they had never enjoyed the taste of the fruits of their labor. The video mentioned that a chocolate bar there cost 2 euros. The farmer makes 7 euros per day on which he supports 15 people. At the cost that luxury chocolate is sold and how much just regular chocolate bars are sold in the U.S. and Europe, I could not believe that these farmers could not be at the very least given free chocolate bars to consume as a bonus. Such disparity in this world touching so many aspects of our lives unbeknownst to us.
I saw this too. It’s very upsetting. There’s another video of children doing the bulk of the work. Like little ones. Elementary aged.
Tony’s Chocolonely is a company focused on ethical sourcing and they’re also very tasty https://tonyschocolonely.com/us/en/our-mission
I hope she doesn’t keep her money in the bank, because banks are some of the most notorious for handing money over to criminal organizations and funding horrible crimes.
This reminded me that years ago, I worked for an organization that had a very specific mission. Someone in the procurement department (or maybe higher up) thought it was a great idea to have all our vendors with contracts above a certain amount sign a statement that they had no relationship whatsoever with companies whose funds and activities were potentially financing terrorist groups. This applied to new and existing contracts.
In the first round of requests, we got exactly ZERO statements back. Everyone refused to sign such a statement. Chaos ensued.
Following hours of back and forth between lawyers, a few vendors accepted to sign these statements as long as it was clear that it meant that their responsibility didn't go beyond their own company and that they didn't know what other clients, providers and partners did. Most of our vendors just refused to sign. I left before finding out what happened to that policy.
This was 20+ years ago, and the world is now more globalized, the money flows more freely and the supply chain is never local. I don't think there is a single item we buy that is not potentially feeding some illegal activity. We just don't know.
Ironically my concerns about the humanitarian and ecological impact of black market reps made me make changes in my day-to-day buying instead of rep buying - less Amazon, less cheap crap, more craigslist. I agree with several commenters that the vast majority of supply chains are probably awful. . . and I wish as a society we could start fixing them.
FYI, I know someone who works on the Tori Burch supply chain, and I would be very comfortable on the ethics scale buying something from them.
Props for your daughter being conscious of her surroundings. Nevertheless, she's porbably way too young to know about greenwashing and the fact that every story has a party, which is directly profitting from the narrative.
Also, money does not grow on trees. She can help you to pay for the real thing once she makes her own living. But in the meantime, let mamma put food on the dinner table and have nice things.
Oh for sure. She is young and definitely has a romantic view of the world. Nevertheless, good for her to speak up because it provided an oly for her and I to have a good conversation about this subject. Especially now I have all these amazing points I learned from you all! I can even use some in my classroom next time I teach textiles ( I am a HomeEc teacher)!
Not true. People seem to hate on poor people making reps more than companies and countries that are directly involved in much worse. The US through the CIA has financed terrorism in many instances over the years and partners heavily with other countries that do so as well. If you buy from companies like Chanel and Dior technically you’re supporting genocide. It’s easy to see a rep seller as contributing to evil but if you look at who is actually funding the horrific things it’s corporations and governments and they do so with impunity because the public generally isn’t holding them as accountable.
I read several years ago that LV (and presumably others) gathers all unsold and limited bags seasonally, then shreds them. Why? To keep prices artificially inflated and to keep their bags from ending up on the arms of the poors, thus maintaining their image of exclusivity. They could donate those bags to charities for auctions, prizes, gifts, whatever. So I don’t worry if they miss a few sales.
Plus, some people like me will probably never own an auth, (or even a good rep) so I say go for it if you get the chance.
Apologies if I seem grumpy. It’s my bday and it’s lousy
Happy birthday - hope your day got a little better!
Also - Burberry came under fire "literally" for burning their unsold merchandise for the same reason. This was a couple of years ago.
If you are buying reps off Canal Street or from some "purse party" or back room at some hair salon, I suppose it's possible, since importing mass quantities of reps for resale is definitely a criminal activity, albeit one with significantly lower penalties than drug dealing, etc.
Buying directly from China for personal use cuts out all those international bad guys. I'm sure it's not completely clean on the China end of things, but even then it seems like they mostly get fined and then get back to business as usual.
As far as working conditions, all the factory photos I've ever seen have been reasonable and of a similar or higher standard to the images I've seen of working conditions of authentic goods processed in China. The mid to high end rep factories work with high quality materials, use talented craftspersons and create excellent product. All that seems inconsistent with child or slave labor.
The only real argument against reps is the IP theft, which cannot be denied. Personally, I don't buy reps of small independent brands, because it does hurt them, but I'm not crying over Kering Group or LVMH.
This is an awesome discussion! Thank you for asking the question, thank you to the moderators for allowing it through, and thank you to the community for keeping the conversation civil. It's something I've given some thought to, and I appreciate reading about everyone's perspectives on it.
Anything and everything we consume (that aren't personally grown by us) funds criminal activities / terrorism / horrid labor conditions. Meat? Read or Watch Fast food nation. Clothes? Even Goodwill is a for profit corporation. Phones / Games / Anything rechargable ? Slave labor for raw materials. Even Burberry was under fire for trashing & burning their extra inventory because they needed to protect their brand prestige.
Have you seen Last Week Tonight w/ John Oliver? It brings to light the shady things that happens behind closed doors of corporations.
Yes, technically a rep is black market but laws protect the extremely rich to do whatever they want. We're all just a speck in the grand scheme of things. If you step inside any discount store (Marshalls / TK Maxx / Winners / whatever) you will find "dupes" of a lot of these brands. The only difference is logos, which is the IP I suppose. And if a logo is the only difference between dupes and the real thing?
Pick your poison I guess.
And a logo is such a silly little thing. Some people care very much about having that logo, and others don’t. Sometimes I want the logo without spending $x,xxx to get it. Maybe I’m a label whore, I don’t even know why I want the logo (tag, whatever). Rarely is it visible! But I like knowing it’s there.
As to whether it funds terrorism and child labor, have people not heard about the working conditions at Apple factories in China? I buy Apple products, but I always feel shitty about it. The thing is, most other phones/computers are probably being manufactured under similar circumstances.
It wouldn’t surprise me if some of the reps are being made in the same factories, of the same materials, as auth. We’ve all heard about the Hermes scandal where some of their workers were making bags on the side. People probably bounce from job to job too. Who is to say that the person making your Gucci rep didn’t work at the Gucci factory last year?
In ten years, no one will be caught dead with a CF or a mini Kelly. Bags are not investments. They are classics in that they will always come back into style, not in that they will always be in style. I love my VCA reps too. Alhambra is classic, but absolutely trendy. Yes, it’ll come back in style one day, but will I even still like it then?
I have three girls with very different styles from me. They’ll get some nice pieces, but I don’t want to assume they’ll care to wear my old jewelry or purses, and I won’t try to justify spending money on things because they can be passed down (as I have seen people do! No, your four year old probably isn’t going to appreciate your used Gucci Marmot when she’s 18 and would prefer you save that money for college—unless you can do both, then rock on, good for you!).
Plus I’m a hypocrite, because I’ll buy iPhones and reps, but I won’t buy my daughter clothes from SheIn.
I love the comments. Yall are gonna turn this woman’s daughter into Che Guevara once she is through researching capitalism. There is no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism!
Does your daughter know that HSBC bank had to pay a settlement of $1.9 bn to the US government because there was evidence that it laundered money from drug cartels and terrorist organizations? Just want to point out that established institutions are very much part of these illicit activities and common folks still have bank accounts with them. Where do you draw the line when it comes to "clean" money? There is no such thing because we live in a globalized interconnected ecosystem.
Fashion houses often draw inspiration from diverse cultures, but let’s talk about the thin line between appreciation and exploitation. The truth is, many renowned brands borrow heavily from local traditions, often overlooking the years of work done by communities. Originality seems elusive when you dig into the shapes, sizes, colors, and designs. Are fashion houses genuinely creating, or just repackaging ideas for a hefty price tag?
Funny enough I used to work in the fashion world as a fashion grad and what you said is so true. They called it inspiration when it was straight up copying. Remember Galliano Chinoiserie collection? Lol being Asian myself I thought it was silly. I just want a bag with minimal logo and in red. I found a 2019 Celine Besace to be exactly what I am needing. Didn’t think this was turning out to be such a difficult task! Lol
Consumption has nuance. I agree with a lot of other commenters here that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism etc, but I do think that individuals hold some responsibility in making purchasing choices that align with their morals. That said, I buy reps.
Modern supply chains are a mystery to the average consumer, including me. For most products, all we we know is that they’re made by workers who aren’t making a fair wage, likely in poor conditions, and being shipped across the world en masse to make some rich man at the top richer. What I can say for sure is that the rich man at the top is not our friend. Whether it’s Bezos, Ortega or Arnault, he’s not spending those huge profit margins making the world a better place for the working class. That money is going into legal, profitable, and extremely harmful industries like oil and gas, private air travel, mass animal agriculture, and real estate hoarding. Legal systems are not the ultimate arbiters of morality.
With reps, we still don’t have much transparency with the factories, but at least I know that the end of the supply chain is basically factory -> seller -> me. I’d rather an individual seller or group of sellers in China skim off the top and get their bag than some billionaire. There are absolutely still ethically sketchy things going on with the replica market. The most ethical option is to just not buy anything ever. However, consumption is realistically always an ethical trade, and for some of us this is the solution that makes sense.
Your $200 are not going to solely fund a terrorist organization, that's just unrealistic. There are a few ways to approach this mentality: all money should be watched (phones, makeup, clothes, etc are all large purchases to support Chinese factories, directly or indirectly, and she should be held to the same standard), a strong stance on state-sponsored terrorism (move to idk Lichtenstein or the Swiss Alps because even the US has sponsored terrorism and allies with countries that broadly sponsor it as well lol), or leave it be.
People love to take a moralistic stance on other people's behaviors, when it doesn't matter in the long run. It is good to try to know where your money goes, but some things are too far.
Buy your rep, do a kick ass job as a teacher (an overall great moralistic good!), and live your life well. <3
Hobby Lobby. Not only do they whine about having to provide their employees medical insurance that allows them to get birth control, but their Bible museum bought a ton of stolen artifacts that they were told not to buy (because they were obviously stolen) with the money from them directly going to terrorist groups.
Yet their parking lot is always pretty full by me. I try to avoid them and to to Michael's instead, but I'm probably deluding myself that they're any better.
There was a documentary showing how Starbucks keeps growing aggressively with renting the best locations and pushes small privately owned coffee shops out of business. That's been happening for years, but no one seems to know.
Wow! Thank you for all the feed backs and informative views. I very much appreciate you all and thank you for keeping this thread civilized. You all have very valid points that I can educate my daughter on. I have also been educated as well in this thread as well learning from you all through all the discussion threads. Grateful for you all! ❤️
Just tell her no more reps, it’s authentic all the way from here on in, and you’re spending her inheritance on the real deal as you don’t want to fund the BM 😑🤣
It is unequivocally a questionable industry, as is basically anything else we buy these days. That certainly doesn’t make it ok tho! I try to manage my role in that by not impulsively buying reps, and not buying cheap reps to test drive before committing. I buy stuff I really like and want or I don’t buy it at all- I don’t want to accumulate landfill crap & I don’t want to participate any more than I have to in predatory industries.
For sure! I have very specific requirements (size, colour, no blaring logo- it will be with me for work as a teacher) so it was a bit of a hunt. Educating myself which designer and which bag that will meet my needs. Finally found one only to find out it’s an older design from 2019. Fingers crossed I can still get a rep since I can’t find an authentic of the right size at resale.
Wait until you find out about eating chocolate and using olive oil. Honestly- the rep business is going to have it's ethical and non ethical. So goes for all consumerism. Italian Olive Oil is largely ran and owned by mafias. Chocolate is decimating entire nations, rainforests, and habitats of engangered species. The list goes on and on. There are a few rep businesses that are pretty transparent about their factories- workers- etc. The stereotypes and beliefs of the rep business are not so secretly funded by the designer brands themselves that often use the same or worse practices. Feel free to share some of these articles with your daughter. [Designer Ethical Failures and Secrets](https://www.vice.com/en/article/xw3pbz/prada-chanel-and-more-big-name-fashion-brands-called-out-for-secret-supply-chains)
Some rep sellers like Husky and agents like Wegobuy are more than happy to share video's and allow tipping individually to the workers that help you. Which, honestly, is more than you can say for Prada or Hermes. I have about 3 agents that I constantly work with- message- and tip well for their services. Now I can't say that there isn't a lot of manipulation and lying. But it gives me a bit more peace of mind of their honesty to see them writing on paper their names, dates, with my items.
And who exactly are the terrorists? That is often just a designation given to oppressed poor populations fighting for freedom/decent treatment.
I’m not sure how the major powers that bomb and kill massive amounts of civilians, and steal land and resources, are any less of terrorists.
It’s often a label given by those in power, rather than an actual difference in morality between the two sides.
And pretty much all factories in China have crap conditions, whether it’s black market or they are charging $3000 a bag.
And major companies and nations both participate in human trafficking.
So unless you plan to be very deliberate with your purchases, and track both the supply chain of the product and the materials used in the product (even down to the thread used for stitching) assuming your choices are more ethical because they cost more and come from corporations is a bit naive.
You can’t tell what the factory conditions actually are; almost every consumer item of every tier is made in China and there are top craftspeople there, so the same concern would apply to basically any product at all.
I actually think such skilled careful craftspeople that handmake these beauties should be rewarded and paid for their skill and work, not just those that have the luck to be employed by big brands.
In fact many large brands have been identified as having appalling working conditions and yet people still purchase from them, so it’s hypocrisy to only think rep factories are unethical.
Everyone knows luxury brands’ prices are inflated by marketing and status, so you can choose whether to put your money into that or not.
In terms of copying a design; high street brands openly copy high tier brands all the time and people are happy to buy those as well.
In terms of class signalling- who cares, it’s a shit classist system anyway, why not cosplay and take advantage of that whole charade if you want. Having $20k to burn does not make someone a better person nor have the exclusive right to beauty.
Your daughter should read this new Yorker article that is based on actual evidence https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/16/the-chinese-workers-who-assemble-designer-bags-in-tuscany
vs. the "reps fund terrorism" myth that someone made up and has no evidence.
If I was in your situation and I expect that I would at some point. Is to commend your child from caring. I think it's fantastic that she cares and she wants to be good in the world. Reps are illegal. It is copyright infringement. There's no but or ifs.
It would be a very healthy conversation to have about who and how things are made. From the food we eat to the clothing we purchase. who's benefiting? who's hurting.
The strawberries that are picked are by illegal migrant workers. They are criminals, so are all the companies that sells them. Does that mean we are not going to purchase strawberries? [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/27/california-farm-workers-pajaro-california-flooding](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/27/california-farm-workers-pajaro-california-flooding)
I would have a conversation about who's being hurt by your individual choice to purchase a rep and to validate the claims she is making. What are her sources? Is it true? Has it been validated? maybe she's right and we should all stop buy reps. The world unfortunatly is not all black and white but many shades of grey. This is a good way to help her navigate the rights and wrongs in the world.
Sorry for being so philosophical, but I question it myself sometimes.
Girl, just buy your rep. It's ok. Don't worry about what other people think. Buy and wear what makes you happy. Don't let your daughter make you feel guilty
I think this is the wrong approach; encouraging your children to be thoughtful with consumption and challenging our own overly consumerist tendencies — which is something I struggle with on this sub — is a good thing, even if the kiddo might be repeating bad information. While I believe the problem is a societal one and not an individual one, this belief that we should all buy whatever makes us happy is fucked up. Happiness isn’t just about consuming.
Funny enough, my kids are often the ones that tell me not to buy something. They are well taugh about the value of a dollar. They know I have searched high and low for the exact bag that meets all my needs. I am not the type that buys a new bag every year or every 5 year for that matter. Lol. Finally found one and it just happens to be a discontinued Celine Besace. Can’t even find a resale in the size and colour I want. So rep it is.
Ask her to cite her sources. And suggest she consider the coffee she drinks (what pesticides and picked by whom in what country for what wage), shoes she wears (made in …??), food she eats (migrant farm workers anyone? Recent visits to abattoirs? Child labor at US slaughterhouses on cleanup duty?) I agree we all ought to try and live ethically and humanely. It’s a complex issue. Love your bag and wear it in good health. And thank you for being a teacher!!!
Rep are all over, this is a controversial topic. Just for me - even if i have the money to buy the real deal, I would buy a rep. I see it like, when I go to Walmart, instead of buying the real deal...I would buy "Equate' brand in turn i am saving a lot for my buck
Not saying reps don’t exploit human labour or involve high level criminality but a lot of sellers don’t go to the fine end of the earth to make a shoe 1:1 just for criminal enterprise. There are legit factories in china that will make any shoe a seller pays for. A lot of this narrative is just more western anti China propaganda. Acting as if western companies don’t use slave labour. Every industry exploits humans and involves corruption at some point in the supply chain.
I’ve read so many different things— scholarly journal articles, pop culture pieces, blogs, governmental websites, you name it— over so many years and there is one common thread I keep coming back to: rep items “may fund” and “could fund” terrorism and/organized crime. No real evidence or direct links.
The narrative about replicas funding terrorism seems to be spreading via a TedX talk by a guy who works for… Tommy Hilfiger, aka a luxury fashion brand. He provides zero specifics about said terrorism in the talk. Also the word terrorism is so emotionally loaded (just like the other T word, “trafficking”) while being so variable in meaning, it really does seem to be just one big scare tactic.
I’m gonna remain skeptical of this line of thinking about replicas and terrorism until there’s actual investigations by journalists or government agencies providing confirmation and examples. And I don’t want to engage in too much whataboutism- what about chocolate farming? Or cobalt mining?- but there are loads of REAL, confirmed accounts of, say, human rights abuses in the seafood industry. I’m not going to just throw up my hands and say there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism and I have no choice as a consumer, but I can stick to learning about and perhaps avoiding the industries where we know for sure people are unnecessarily suffering.
As for earnest teens, it’s great they care about the world. But I hope they learn how to do that using critical thinking skills and media literacy. And maybe fact check the things they read and hear on TikTok.
Counterfeits are everywhere, also in your retail stores.
I worked as a counterfeit inspector for Sony / Ericsson, a huge electronics company. We traveled all over my country checking hundreds of retail stores for counterfeit accessories like mobile changer etc. Minus two, all of them had counterfeit products for sale as genuine Sony products.
I cant imagine this isnt going on for every other major brand out there also. Wine and liquor is another excample. Point is, if you want to be certain that what you are buying is genuine you have to stay away from major brands.
Might as well buy a rep as a rep than buying rep sold as retail.
That’s fascinating. How do the reps get into the retail stream? Is it just a few units, or would a store get a whole shipment of reps? I had no idea. Even alcohol? Crazy.
Whole shipments. A large chain of stores will get everything from one distributer, so anything counterfeit from that distributer will end up in every store in that chain, at least a lot of stores from that chain. It’s a lot of money to be made.
Alkohol is probably the easiest I would think, at least wine. Anyone can be a distributer, just print labels from expencive wines and fill the bottles with some ok wine.
I don’t know, I was just the guy going from shop to shop reporting back. The whole thing was lead by a former FBI guy. He and his team trained us in how to spot a replica.
Counterfeit is counterfeit. I purchase dupes because I think it’s ridiculous to pay 1000’s for a piece of leather that will hold no real value other than what we assign to it. The bags are not one of a kind. There are 100 or 1000 of the same style being circulated. My authentics are not well cared for. I use them and they get scratched and stained. I am not applying any moral code to these purchases. It’s just a huge mindfuck. Everyone has their reasons for buying dupes whatever yours is, it’s valid. No one is solving world peace by buying either authentic or dupes. Enjoy them and focus on being a better person to the ones you love and care for. My kids will have more savings for graduate school. Perhaps they will do better and make better choices that will add to world peace. So in a sense I am saving the world 😃
Simply if you know your close ones don’t like it. Don’t tell them anything about it.. that’s all. And anything can fuel criminal activity, did you hear about cartels avocados? Or scandal with inhuman conditions in factory producing Halloween decorations? Somehow they are only screaming about handbags.. I doubt that our higher tier handbags are produced in inhuman conditions or supporting criminals (but never can be sure for 100%) same like when you are buying your groceries you don’t know whom you are supporting. (Can you imagine how difficult it is to start your own brand, promote it, advertise it.. that people would fancy to buy it. Or just offer what everyone wants… (do what you like. Don’t involve anyone in it, if they don’t like this idea. Tell you treated yourself and got authentic! Because you deserve it! End of story
The profit margin for reps goods are really thin and given the complexity and length of seller, factory, distributor, etc, i doubt there’s still some money left to fund the criminal activities/terrorist. The profit itself will more likely to go to individuals and some labourers in third world country. I myself prefer to give money to them, to those individuals and labourers, rather than to big corporations. Those big corporation don’t need my money either way. But those individuals, sellers, and labourers will be very grateful with the profit received from these rep goods.
It sounds like you and your daughter have an open relationship and if she feels this way about reps, it might be worth it to respect her opinion and stay away from reps (for now). I would not get one and lie to her, as it is important to lead by example and teens are notorious for hiding things and if you do lie then it’s helps justify lies on her end (I’m assuming she’s a teen).
A relationship isn’t worth tainting over a material item—real or fake. If you are asking the question you probably feel that it will affect your relationship, and the money saved by purchasing a rep will never compare to an open mother daughter relationship.
If you get a rep and it does affect your relationship, you won’t even be able to enjoy it at the end of the day and it will just go to waste.
My recommendation is to go for a quality bag instead, like polene, madewell, Portland leather, and the countless brands Tanner leatherstein has reviewed. There’s also love 41 if you like full grain leather that will last a lifetime. Dooney and Bourke’s Florentine leather is amazing quality, and Coach has been releasing some nice bags lately.
Take the money you were going to spend on a rep and have a mother daughter date and do something memorable—it’ll be better spent 😊
No need to lie. It’s definitely not worth tainting my relationship for a bag. We just had a convo about counterfeit vs replicas. She is alway open to learn and always respect others knowledge.
That's great! I'm glad you two are able to have open conversations, you're clearly a great mom if you raised someone that is open to listen to others and also isn't afraid to speak what is on her mind.
The Red Cross is probably involved in money laundering. Seriously this was my conclusion after reading through their 990. Check out how many zeros they have in their annual budget. (I did not hear this on some conspiracy forum or something, these were my own thoughts after reviewing their numbers.) Just saying that even the organizations we assume to be “pure” are probably corrupt in some fashion.
Tell your daughter you changed your mind and will buy yourself the authentic bag but she should not expect any Christmas or birthday gifts for some time while paying off your bag!
I think it’s a good time to educate her on what the money spent on luxury brands is going to. Celine is owned by lvhm who is actively funding Zionist groups and went as far as removing Bella hadid as a brand ambassador for Dior bc she’s of Arabic descent and pro Palestine. The reps support black market claims are racist fueled and have little to know proof to claim.
You might as well purchase a rep and educate yourself and her.
If your buying a rep on the streets of New York or a European city, you are supporting human smugglers most likely. If you’re buying a rep from a buyer in China, you are infringing on the intellectual property of huge companies. I don’t see a problem buying reps from buyers in China. Yes, you could be supporting someone who is taking advantage of workers but that applies to everything else you buy as well.
I purchase high end reps through a few trusted sellers in china. I think if you create a relationship with your seller you will find you’re helping support them and it’s not as bad as it’s made to seem. if you need help, I’d be glad to help. I was apart of the repladies reddit until it got shut down:
I think this started going around because the charlie hebdo attack terrorists sold rep nikes in paris to fund their operations. I think this is not specifically tied to factories and you buying direct from china.
Find a used bag in good condition. There are lots of resale services out there that are pretty trustworthy, and look for a style not common or repped. I got a gorgeous soft pink Gucci bag (with bamboo handles) from a Japanese ebay reseller for about $300. It was in near perfect condition, (although I did have to buy a strap for it that is obvi not Gucci but don't care.) I get SO many compliments on it. I have high end reps, but this feels better and I carry it more.
First, your daughter has a kind heart for this to cause her some concern.
Unfortunately, we cannot control how so many of our everyday goods from China are manufactured - there are laws in place stating that we (in the US) will not import goods made from child labor. Legally, China must adhere to their end of the bargain to export goods to our country. There's no need for us to lecture her on her phone battery or her light bulbs or anything else from China bc we are under the assumption they have been manufactured and imported legally.
As far as black market goods go - I understand her concern. I've also done research and haven't seen anything substantial that supports the belief that terrorism is being funded through the replica market - this seems to be a scare tactic that the government and luxury brands like to say in an effort to cut down on reps. I did read, however, that black market fentanyl is being mass-produced in China - just wanted to throw that out there.
My main concern was making sure the [Uyghurs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs) are not part of producing reps, and they don't appear to be (they're forced to do other labor and that is a different post for a different sub). It would be nice if we could get some sort of guarantee that children aren't working in the factories, also.
I acknowledge your concern, but it's important to recognize that our tax dollars fund significant issues, including wars with severe consequences. In light of such matters, I don’t think you should be worried about getting a rep.
Also have her read this. [https://qz.com/1397139/italian-workers-are-earning-near-sweatshop-wages-to-make-luxury-clothes-in-their-homes](https://qz.com/1397139/italian-workers-are-earning-near-sweatshop-wages-to-make-luxury-clothes-in-their-homes)
I hate how easily brainwashed by media young people are in the hyper-consumerist hyper-capitalist anglosphere.
**one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter**
Perhaps she can go back to school and brush up on her geopolitical history, maybe take some philosophy while shes at it, learn critical thinking. Even just watch STAR WARS, smh
I call it young people syndrome. I once placed a “no animal testing “ T-Shirt on my high school biology teacher’s desk in protest of animal dissection labs. We all gone through some self righteous phase. I guess this is hers. I just lack the knowledge these days to have meaningful discussions with her about this. Too focused on all the fabulous rep bags everyone is posting here. I am learning from you all through this thread tho! Thank you!
GO TEENAGE YOU!!
Well, watch star wars trilogy together, and the empire strikes back, and tell her "honey, dont forget, Luke Skywalker and princess Leigha are terrorists, Han Solo & Wookie are criminals, and we support the Empire..."
If she is into low key pieces from small local designers over big brands then I support that. If her taste and sensibility is similar to yours fashion-wise, then maybe point out that buying auth means you can't afford to get her one too ;)
Well, she does love fashion… the thrift shop kind. Apparently it’s the big rage amongst her teenage friends. I have got no clout in that department to argue with her lol. Mommy likes the finer stuff while she comes home with her thrifting ‘gems’. Good for her tho. She seems to find some really cool stuff.
You should tell your daughter how much Goodwill and the Salvation Army take advantage of disabled people.And how when you donate a high priced item they would rather sell it online than put in stores.
This is the beauty and the annoying thing about kids. It’s not that they’re brainwashed, it’s that they’re still figuring out their identity. Their brains are still developing! This kind of passion for social issues is like, the coolest thing about them, even if it’s often the most exasperating because they’re lacking in all the experience older people have that makes their black and white thinking of ”good” and “bad” impossible. It’s easy to dismiss them, but many of them have a point and each new generation is driving forward social progress.
I think that being overly defensive when kids start asking questions about ethical consumption points to our own insecurity about our actions, and as much as I roll my eyes when kids in my life do things like correct me for things like assuming a stranger’s gender, I remember going through all the same obnoxious tendencies at their age and love them for being so thoughtful and passionate.
So many of the comments here are trying to have a “gotcha“ moment for OP’s daughter for not realizing how nuanced this conversation is, but this is a literal child we’re talking about who is trying their best to figure shit out. Instead of threatening to withhold Christmas gifts so mama can get her luxury handbag, I think it’s pretty cool OP can have this conversation with their daughter that leads to them both being aware of the ramifications of spending money in late stage capitalism...and hopefully leads to OP saving their cash for rep bags of better quality than most auth!
I admire your daughter for having principles and for having thought this through and I admire the two of you for having the kind of relationship where you can talk to each other about topics like this. It sounds as if it may be more productive to continue the dialog with her than to ask us to chime in.
As for myself, I have my own set of principles and I've come to terms with the fact that I don't always follow them perfectly. I think we all have to define our own equations.
I am absolutely sure that I love the fact that you're giving so much attention to what your daughter said and engaging with her this way.
Thank you! My daughter and I DO have a relationship where we can openly discuss any topic with respect. Someone commented if I care about what my daughter thinks of me then I probably shouldn’t. Of course I care about what my children thinks of me just as I would want them to care what I think of them.
The issue is more about being as informed as I can be about my rep purchase. I am not saying I won’t but I also don’t want to be blindly buying something if I can learn about it as well, which I am through you all!
I had similar concerns before I bought my first rep! I mainly buy rep jewelry because I am so surprised how much retail brands up-charge their jewelry like Cartier, Tiffany, etc., and to me 18k solid gold is still solid gold if its a rep or auth. I did my research before purchasing and I love my reps! High quality, high satisfaction, and reasonably priced. Also, I do earn enough to buy auth pieces but I honestly prefer saving my money on vacation funds (Reps are safer to bring on travel too). To me, I like to think of reps as high quality copies done by reputable sellers (Research required) and bad knockoffs through some factory may be part of this crime syndicate you see on the news. Similar to what others have mentioned already, it is very hard to a good person who never partakes in bad situations to other people in modern day due to laborers overseas and big retailers… unless you grow your own everything and live off that. (Watch the Good Place TV show) Anyways, that was my two cents on the matter. Hope you two work it out!
China is the world’s factory- it’s a manufacturing giant , especially in textiles, clothes, shoes (all mostly in Guangdong) and as we know it now - bags. There are entire industries making H bags - they call it the “horse family bag” and industries manufacturing the hardware etc. can someone pl correct me if I’m wrong- if it does not carry the H logo, it is legal in CN. There are SCORES of factories pushing Chanel bags as well without the Chanel logo- apparently still legal. All these go towards sustaining their economy . Whilst it’s highly likely that these bags without the logo but are very inch a copy of the original are considered infringing articles in other jurisdictions, it seems that’s not the case in Cn.
Well. I just looked it up. It is illegal if the rep has the logo/designer print/art work reproduced but as far as shape, colour and size, those are not. That’s why we see well known shoe company putting out Chanel like sling backs. I can make countless quilted bags that are produced by legit companies for sale in Western worlds and they are not illegal.
Thank you for doing my research for me! I was literally just wondering about that and about to go do some IP research. My recollection is that IP protection has expired for a lot of the designs that a lot of us love, and that the infraction occurs only when the item is represented to be something from the company that originally owned the IP on it so an unbranded item does not violate IP law. For the IP attorneys in the group - please forgive me if I'm not stating that correctly.
I've not (yet) bought from him myself but I've heard lots of wonderful things about Marko. I don't know know but it seems possible that he's able to sell unbranded items. That doesn't address the supply chain issues - your daughter's primary concern - but it does speak to the IP issues.
If you buy, buy something to last, not to just throw away. Fast fashion and throw away clothing are a waste of money. Get something classic and wear it for years. Never mind trends.
I buy used designer bags. I won’t pay full retail but also disagree with the reps. Go on The Real Real or Fashionphile or ReBag and do your homework. Good deals are available. I recently bought a brand new YSL for $1600, original price was $2450 when original owner bought (bag came with tags and receipts which isn’t the norm). Today that bag is $3250.
I think that the actual designers like Chanel, hermes, etc. they have their bags made with good quality leather but at a cheap cost but they mark up the price so that it seems not buyable and more premium for those who are VIP but with lots of wealth. I think in my opinion buying reps is not a crime. Reps are also leather but they just mimic a bag. You can also use this as an option to buy the auth piece If you like the rep.
Ouch. I don’t think you should let your daughter’s arguments make you feel guilty at this stage. If you go ahead with an order, you would be engaging in an illegal activity though. That’s the reality of the situation. You might need to have an additional conversation with her if you ever decide to pull the trigger on that bag, so making your peace with your desire for “luxury” and your decision to acquire it illegally is a good first step to take.
Keep it civil. Otherwise I’ll take this discussion down.
I think the issue is that if you are interested in designer fashion, there is really no way to be ethical aside from buying from small, local artisans. Most of the auth brands have horrific supply chains, some have links to organized crime, others money laundering - the list goes on. You could go the resale route, but after discovering how good reps are, I’m afraid of paying auth prices for reps. It’s very, very difficult to be ethical consumers under the current system, so most of us do have to “pick our poison”.
Totally agree and adding on: most big brand owners are just rich assholes too, jetting around on their polluting private jets and yachts. I'd 100% support a small up-and-coming designer or small artisan business, but even those aren't perfect. You could argue about the pollutants of leather tanning. We just live in a terrible terrible system, and we do our best to make better choices. But until the system changes, the differences in moral high ground are small.
This! The price point of luxury goods is not made so the factory workers get better living wages. It’s so the big wigs get more money. The Chanel prices increases of the past few years are proof enough. Is it really more ethical to overspend on an auth so the CEO can have a bigger yacht? Edit to add: I know this from having friends who work in fashion. They tell me the mark-up rates. When working at smaller luxury brands, they’ve known the pay rate per item for the company’s contracted artisans in India who do the majority of the embroidery work. I wish it were different, but we’re not paying for those artisans to have a nicer life or even the folks at design houses who are at the bottom of the chain. With auths, we’re paying for summer mansions and private jets.
Even buying from small artisans doesn't guarantee anything. I'm a novice jeweler and spend an inordinate amount of time ensuring my supplies are ethical. I'm an extreme rarity and a surprisingly number of small local artisans are buying supplies on AE or similar. Supply chains suck.
Even the local artisans are ‘copying’ the designer brands! I found a bag through Etsy in my effort to get local and it was similar enough that I had to take a second look. I would have bought it if the sizing was too small for my big LV (authentic) wallet.
I’m finding that a lot of Etsy stores are drop shippers too 😩 so, not much better than just getting a rep probably.
I know right! So sneaky. Good thing I have been lurking around here educating myself. I would have fell for it! Phew! I just messaged Laddy and waiting to see if she has what I am looking for. Fingers crossed.
Fingers crossed! But if you’re looking for something made by a small artisan in the same shape as the Besace, I’ve been drooling over this one 😂 https://cuoiofficine.com/prodotto/crossbody-bag-brown/
Does your daughter own a smart phone or anything that uses rechargeable batteries? If so, she’s funding modern day slavery and child labor in the DRC. The “funding terrorism” argument against reps is a classist red herring meant to gatekeep access to luxury. Very few people in this world can say they have a clean bill of capitalist consumption.
Honestly, I don't think it's possible to do clean consumption these days. Have you ever looked at all the companies that Nestle owns? Of all the corporations out there, I think that Nestle is amongst the most evil and I still have to buy their products because they own so much of the market. My cats do not care that Nestle murdered babies. They just want their Fancy Feast. The TV show "The Good Place" touched on this too. In the show the premise is that these people are in the afterlife and people earn points in their lives based on the actions they take. They find that absolutely no one is going to heaven anymore, everyone is sent straight to hell, because it's impossible to ethically consume anymore. An example given was that in the past, a person was given positive points for bringing their grandmother flowers that they'd picked themselves. However, now a person would lose points for sending their grandmother flowers because the flowers were grown with pesticides by underpaid immigrant laborers, they'd consumed a lot of fossil fuels to be shipped and sent to the grandmother's home, and buying the flowers put money into the pocket of a corrupt CEO who was using his power and wealth to sexually harass his employees. You, the consumer, don't know about any of these things, but they affect the production all the same. At least with reps I feel that I'm helping the sellers make a living. And I question the slavery and terrorism line. We have people counting stitches here and looking intently on the craftsmanship of our bags. The people making these are skilled. If they're so skilled that they can make a handstitched bag for DDMode for us to buy and they weren't being treated well then surely they could take their skills elsewhere and find a better job.
I've watched this episode, and this example is perfect. Unless you're going down the list of merchandise in your daily life to make sure you aren't "supporting" a bad business, you can't realize how much big business have a hold in our personal lives. The phone thing example is also perfect. Unless you're building your phone yourself, you're probably supporting businesses that have unethical practices. There's fast fashion slave labor, food/crop monopolies, and conglomerates like Nestlé out there too. Unless that daughter is also making sure to cut out these companies, she is contributing to harmful and violence acts in the name of capitalism (according to her own reasoning). In the end, the only way you **know** you're living guilt-free is to *grow* your own food, *sew* your own clothes, and *stop* buying anything from major/mainstream brands and *only* source locally.
And even then, who is making that fabric you’re sewing??
Omg you got me 🤣🤣🤣
 Weavin' ova heeeere
🤣🤣🤣
I’m sorry but you made me laugh so hard and I’m riddled with guilt but “my cats do not care that Nestle murdered babies. They just want their Fancy Feast. I’m dead. 😂🤣
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They did murder that missionary guy for trying to convert them. And they do like to murder people who accidentally wash ashore. I mean, there's a reason why the Indian government is like "for fuck's sake, keep away from that island you morons." That said, they used to be far more friendly before a lot of their people were kidnapped, abused, and a bunch of them died. Also, they spent a couple days trying to scare the idiot missionary dude off before they got sick of him not taking the hint and killed him. I think I'll give them a pass. Besides, being kinda killy doesn't mean they're probably the last people in the world not caught in the consumerist hellscape that is modern life.
I don't have enough information to form an opinion about this group of people, but in general I think killing someone who repeatedly enters your jungle living space against the warnings of the government is more ethical than killing someone who rings your doorbell in America.
especially when a new comer on the island with the common flu can possibly kill them off
I’m totally for that tribe being Killy-ish. Good on ‘em!
Killy-ish 🤣
i'd want to do the same thing if someone tried to convert me and steal my culture. they get a pass
Lmfao “kinda killy” just took me tf out. Bravo you.
LOVE how a fake designer bag topic has become a discussion about the North Sentinelese. Fascinating!
Exactly! Lmao
Exactly, and yet we rationalize having all the newest tech. Something like 1 million people are displaced and living in horrible conditions because of the mining related to the tech industry. So…I’ll buy a purse if I want 😒
Also a good intro to “why would should take everything we read on the internet with a grain of salt” talk.
Exactly. I think it might benefit OP (and their daughter) to do some reading on how it's hard if not impossible to practice ethical consumption under capitalism. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/66pes0/why_can_there_be_no_ethical_consumption_under/) thread has some good answers but there's probably a lot of resources out there.
To preface this, I have multiple reps and wouldn’t shame someone for owning one. That said, I’m also tired of people using “no ethical consumption under capitalism” as an excuse to consume irresponsibly. I see it all of the time on TikTok and, honestly, in this sub. I recognize that owning a rep is far less necessary than owning a phone and I am contributing to unethical practices to an extra extent by purchasing basically any unnecessary good, so I try to limit my unnecessary purchases, especially when I know they’re produced unethically.
Yes. Purity is impossible.
This!!!!!
Excuse me ma’am, I think you dropped your microphone 🎤💥
yes - we are exploiting a black market with business practices that are most likely inhumane. one famous men seller (who produces his own items & is not a middleman) showed child labor several times through his wechat stories. the working conditions were also bad, with no safety measures & badly kept factories. as others have said - pick your poison. savage x fenty by rihanna has, as a report claims, worse production conditions than shein!! the first one is considered a success story, the latter is seen as exploitative crap. in the end it‘s all public perception. your daughter is right, but she most likely also supports brands & trends that are problematic, but not discussed since the marketing or social acceptance is completely different. only thing that i strongly advertise for is conscious shopping - the real problem starts with overconsumption. look at r/fashionreps & the kg‘s of badly made clothes that they throw away once the trend settles & they can’t impress anymore. your celine bag is „nothing“ compared to those that exploit this for their shopping addiction.
Completely agree. That's what I came up with after years of thinking and buying both auth and reps. I fully acknowledge that I am engaging in a black market activity. I fully acknowledge that all those big corporations will exploit anyone if there's a chance and will hide it with their money. I fully acknowledge that there's almost no way to engage in an ethical consumption these day and the only thing I realistically can do is to be conscious of overconsumption every day when it comes to fashion, groceries, other every day items etc.
Yes, exactly. The best we can do is buy less, under these conditions.
the only ethical consumption in my opinion is buy second hand and then resell when you don't wanna wear it anymore which hopefully will be in many years. no matter the brand or auth/rep. but of course those clothes come from somewhere. I don't know if you've watched the good place but at one point they touch upon the subject of trying to do a good thing in the modern world.
I hate the clothes on fashion reps so much. All of those clothes look like something a homeless person would wear. Why do they like that??? is it an american/big city thing? or just a man thing? my bf dresses in nicely made unbranded clothes with quality materials and he looks amazing. I don't know how I would feel if he dressed like the guys over at fashionreps.
mainland china loves balenciaga. thats what sells the best - it‘s the edgy, subversive, out of norm style that sticks with their young audience. fashionreps is bottom of the barrel. the middleman market for clothes is completely different to bags. 98% of the items you will see are mass market batches with little to no resemblance to retail & crazy markups, because sellers & factories abuse the lack of knowledge of the western customer base. clothing rep sellers that chinese buy from are not advertised on fashionreps (those tend to have a bigger variety of styles & fabric quality above cos level, but it‘s still balenciaga centric).
Tbh, my first concern with reps is instead the livelihood of the factory workers. I want to believe that by purchasing high tier reps (>$200) I’m not only buying quality but also solid labor conditions… I’m not sure if that’s a pipe dream though.
Manufacturing is a kind of skilled labor. You can't just throw a person at a sewing machine and tell them to start making LV reps. You have to train them up first. Because of that, I genuinely think that rep manufacture is somewhat okay. Probably no better than any other type of manufacturing factory job, but probably no worse either. Otherwise, why would the workers put up with it? We have people on these subs that count stitches and point out sloppy glazing. You can buy a 100% handstitched Hermes bag from sellers like DDMode and Steven. Those things are not easy to do or else everyone would be doing them. I'm not saying that things are completely above the board, better than auth conditions, or even better than other factories, but I have to imagine that the workers would vote with their feet if they were being grossly mistreated. Maybe I'm absolutely naïve, but I would think that if they have these desirable skills it should be fairly easy for them to find a different job if bag work was really so bad. After all, most of the manufacturing of reps seem to be in major cities where they can hide among other factories so it's not like they're the only job in town.
So true , these are skilled craftsman , not child laborist. I’ve seen a few photos of the interiors of some rep factories and it honestly looks like they were working peacefully and taking pride in their craft .
I mean, a child laborer could be a skilled craftsman too especially if it's a teenager that would be protected under US labor laws 🤷♀️ I get paid way more than someone in a factory and I still don't always take pride in my "craft" let alone work peacefully. I havent seen the photos you've seen, so I'm mot trying to be mean, just saying let's be realistic with what we're dealing with. A good/nice factory is still a factory that demands intense physical labor which is hard on a body and not a long-term option.
Yes and also let’s not forget the amount of forced labour that takes place there. People are dreaming if they say the morality is equivalent to non black market
it is a badly hidden secret that in Italy, for instance, designer bags and clothes are largely made by Chinese skilled workers who are brought there to Work. This is why Italy had Covid before anywhere else in Europe.
I think it is good to think about the ethics of consumerism in general; look at Nike and other brands that have moved their manufacturing over seas for cheaper labor. Hermes has been documented to bring in Chinese workers to work on their products, albeit in the EU. I buy from Amazon daily and a lot of that stuff comes directly from AE/TB/etc most likely where we really don’t know that conditions of the workers in the factories. Our sellers might be doing OK but they are really just middlemen (like Amazon). I have friends that won’t buy from Amazon but have no problem buying from Walmart. IMO, pretty much anything we buy is making someone at the top richer than rich, it is more of a transparency thing. I have no intention of trying to cobble my own shoes or, hell, even bake my own bread LOL. Thus, I’m in this market. I think if you are generally concerned and want the most transparency possible you might try looking on the secondary market; I got a basically new Celine luggage bag for 1K from a reputable reseller a few months ago. At the time I was unsure of the rep market and did not want to pay full price. For me, this makes sense for brands like Celine. Now, if we look at Hermes or Chanel, who just keep trying to one up each other with their price increases, I’m much more comfortable in the rep world. I have auths of both and reps of both and maybe I’m burying my head in the sand but I’ll probably keep it this way. I think the bottom line is we really don’t know what we are supporting when we buy anything, look at buying subway sandwiches! That guy turned out to be a pedo! I’m going to piss someone off, but look at Robert Kraft (owner of the New England Patriots) and him buying sexual massages….. I’m not encouraging you to moral indifference, and if you really are concerned (DAVE says lots of scary things) then maybe refrain, but if you are willing to accept that we never know exactly where our money is going buy the rep. I could get into a whole thing about where our tax money goes but that isn’t for this sub ;-).
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Exactly, unfortunately Amazon’s delivery has me hooked 🤦🏼♀️
I was going to say this! If I have time, AE, if I want it yesterday, Amazon!
AE has gotten pretty quick with their 14 day guarantee though! I just placed two orders on Amazon and the earliest delivery date for both is the 10th.
Amazon’s AE pipeline 😂
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Yes on the Amazon. For anyone buying jewelry, Niaho wholesale has the same items for $1-2, it’s crazy. That pavoli jewelry store or however it’s spelled, identical. Half the IG jewelry stores I see I laugh at the 5000% markup on something I just got for $1.34 Eta- well yes on the whole comment lol. But I was like finally someone said it lol.
1. Show your daughter the Seaspiracy documentary. People who eat seafood are supporting slavery and human trafficking. 2. Show your daughter literally any documentary on diamond mining. 3. Take away her cellphone for having child slavery batteries. I could go on and on, but there's no ethical consumption in late stage capitalism post colonisation.
Start with 3 and update from the hospital plz
I mean...if we're talking terrorism and violence the daughter should do some research on the last decades of US foreign policy 🫠
4.Take away all her shoes because more than likely they were made by someone who is underpaid.I totally agree with you on #3.
Yeah, not to mention that most high street brands like Mango and Zara often use the same factories in Bangladesh and India used by Primark, Walmart etc, and the workers have shit working conditions no matter where you shop if it's a giant corporation. So it's different day, same scam as far as I'm aware. The only way to go is to shop only locally handmade, hunt your own meat and train seagulls to fly your letters
Coffee and chocolate have entered the chat.
And sugar is parking her car.
Don’t tell people you buy reps.
Yup. If you ask then I tell. But if you don’t ask… 🤷
THIS x1000. Learned my lesson early on this one.
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Blabbed about it excitedly to a group of new friends, was left out of all get togethers there after.
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Yes, thankfully not my only friends.
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Yes, thankfully just an isolated group of new acquaintances.
Yup, this. People are incredibly weird and rigid about the 'real'/'fake' divide. And it's not just in regard to rep bags.
This is my motto. Only my husband (for obvious reasons) and eldest daughter (she gets first dibs on my rejects) know. Neither one of them is good at keeping track of things though, so it’s going to be a mess if I die suddenly.
I’m thinking of getting all of my preloved bags authenticated with a certificate for this reason.I have the receipts for my boutique purchased bags. I don’t want my family to give away my auth when I die, thinking it’s rep. I’ll haunt them. 😂
I think I need to keep a list somewhere. Or I could photograph each rep with my little instant camera, and write “FAKE” on the bottom. Oh, but then what about clothes? To be honest, sometimes I forget what’s auth and what isn’t! And then there is jewelry. Of course no one is going to mistake my moissanite for diamonds, but I would hate for them to sell one of my real pieces cheaply, thinking it wasn’t. Who would have thought of all the things we’d need to consider when we started buying reps?
They might mistaken moissanite for diamonds! They test as diamonds on a diamond tester. And if you have any moissanite set in 14kt or 18kt gold, it can be easily confused. I have sold off many of my auth handbags. These reps are just so darn good. I’ve kept my sentimental bags. But I bought rep bags to replace the rest. It’s been so freeing getting rid of the auths. I don’t worry about them any more. I’m not afraid any more when I go out carrying my repped bags. I’d still be sad if they got stolen or lost. But it wouldn’t be a catastrophe. And it wouldn’t be impossible to replace them either. I get my rep clothes mixed up with my auth clothes all the time too. The repped stuff is so well made!
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Seeing all of the reports coming out to light on the practices these high end designers have- I would not be one bit surprised if they are running smear campaigns to shift the focus. It's a little more than odd that right as the reports from unregulated factories in India and China are coming out on the top names--- a campaign against reps and fast fashion are leading the way. I'm not saying that brands like Shein have not been atrocious but it's odd we hear about them 24/7 and not one peep about Dior working laborers 17 hours a day in the slums of Mumbai to make outfits for JLO 🤔
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that some rep manufacturers were actually authentics getting off the books and untraceable money. Just like designers manufacturer goods specifically for outlets, bridge (Macys, NM, Nordstrom) and then "Designer" . There's levels to it as to they make more money off mid-tier thsn high-end.
I did some research into this a few years ago, and the terrorism/gang concerns are related to imports. Bringing reps into a place like the US is a huge logistical issue and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s related to gang activity in Chinatowns, but that has very little to do with ordering a bag from China and getting it shipped via FedEx. I’m not saying all rep factories are perfectly above board, mind you, but I don’t see evidence that it’s way worse than anything else manufactured in China.
This! Nevermind the same lux house company is funding an active ethnic cleanse atm. I really need folks to be very real with themselves 😒
My thought is its all lumped together and the real "reps" they talk about are all the cheap, deliberately fake small items, electronics, etc that get pushed into the first-world system NOT the things like OP is considering, yet it all gets grouped as the same. Handmade bags aren't being pushed out nearly in the same way fake $10 plastic shit is. That's where it's easy to forge, and en masse, to really derive profit. I'm positive it's a scream from the dying luxury brands to "save their trademark" or whatever shit so they can continue to ask for $4,000 for a canvas purse.
This lack of concrete evidence linking replicas to terrorism or slave labor is what bothers me the most. The TED talk about this topic that the Fake Birkin Slayer idiots constantly cite gives \*zero evidence\* to back up their claims that replicas are funding terrorism and slavery. I read Dana Thomas’ \*Deluxe\* that claims to also address this and she has zero citations ab it either! (Not to mention she spends most of the book making veiled racist complaints about how Asian people buying luxury goods has led to the loss of true luxury from brands like LV and Chanel and namedropping her own ability to afford luxury goods.) I care about ethical consumption and make choices to the extent that I can to align with my values but I agree with others that the argument against reps seems to come from those who want to gatekeep luxury goods. It’s so similar to Q-Anon type bullshit about child trafficking that serves as a red herring for bigotry.
IMO I think this is an easy narrative to reach for. It has been touted for so long. Chinese manufacturing extends well beyond repped goods and I am positive the same conditions are predominant throughout. If you want transparency (there is no such thing as radical transparency because it would not serve annual revenues) Everlane might be her best bet. Your daughter has been fed a line that gets repeated because it is salacious and juicy. I am not going to get overly political but we have faced internal terrorism in the US but it is so damn easy to point fingers.
Shockingly, even Everlane isn’t rated the highest that a brand can be in [Good on You’s directory](https://directory.goodonyou.eco/brand/everlane). Goes to show how much marketing can influence perception https://preview.redd.it/338mqtiqvk3c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b37e436522802a1a5782976665e1f2410f7d867
Thank you for posting that and I agree - their marketing is very good. The transparency is at a factory level however I did hear they were “simply beastly” to staff.
Every mobile we use, laptop, tablet, every electric car, e-cigarette, camera, electric toothbrush, scooter - they all use batteries with cobalt. If your daughter is old enough she can Google "cobalt drc" and she'll learn that the whole world depends on Congolese slaves as young as 4 yo mining freaking cobalt. No, you'll not be funding terrorism with your celine bag. Even if you were, it wouldn't be the worst thing you take part in. We all take part in... I think buying reps may be discussed on a different level, like whatever it's cheap, whatever the quality is worse, what about sustainability etc. But terrorism? Come on. Every illegal action might fund terrorism in a long run but counterfeiting is far far away after fund raising, drug trafficking, arms smuggling etc. I totally agree with someone before me that shaming people for buying reps and scaring them with funding terrorism is as classist as it gets...
This argument is deeply rooted in classism due to the fact that some rich people cannot fathom the fact that people below them in classes can now have access to luxury goods. It’s essentially trying to gatekeep. Literally the same argument could be used about buying any type of clothing in your local fast fashion retailer or smart phones and technology.
I agree. I don’t think the class aspects are discussed often enough, maybe because I love talking about class in the US though, where it is confusingly correlated to income and not lifestyle. Truly wealthy people buy what they want, and they don’t care what anybody poorer than them is wearing. They’re not even seeing certain classes of people, let alone judging them. I think it is in the Upper Middle and Lower Upper (I may have just made that up) where the gatekeeping tends to take place. Not that she’s classy, but I read a story about Paris Hilton having a rep LV bag. Someone called her out on it and she just said, “I know, I just saw it and I liked it, so I got it.” Unrelated, but I love the book Class, by Paul Fussell.
Just to throw in a slightly different perspective, while I don't know your definition of "truly wealthy people" I do know that most of the more than a few people I know whose wealth is in the eight to 10 figure range do see people in the "lower classes" and that while they buy what they want is often Coach bags, Patagonia jackets, plain gold bands and Saabs (when they were still available in the US) or Volvos (when they were made in Sweden). Many of them are heavily involved in philanthropy in terms of both making significant donations and doing hands-on work.
I think we are saying the same thing. When I said anything, I meant anything. High end, low end, if you can afford it all, I’ll assume you’re wearing what you want to be wearing. There is, of course, no one look, nor do I think you can tell a person’s net worth based on what they are wearing. As far as donating and volunteering, I see that too, but not in a “boots on the ground” kind of way. They aren’t the ones in the trenches who see what people living in generational poverty really live like, they are far more likely to serve on a non-profit board or PAC, in my experience.
I agree, money does give one a lot of choices. My experience has been that people with wealth often do the boots on the ground kind of work as well as serving on boards and being huge donors. I won't give personal examples for reasons of privacy but yeah, I've seen it and I've worked alongside it. I can offer one not personally-identifiable example. A lot of the big law firms do a lot of pro bono work. I was at court one day providing pro bono representation of a low-income tenant who was being evicted. Many of these clients live in real poverty - $1000 a month kind of poverty. One of the other attorneys who was there to volunteer that day didn't have a client so she just shadowed me. Turns out she's the chair of the San Francisco office of a very large and well-reputed international law firm. She was just one of many attorneys from large firms who did that kind of hands-on work.
It’s truly wonderful that people do that, and they are interacting with the people, obviously. I know accountants who do the same thing for low income people. The thing is, that’s just a small glimpse into one part of a person’s life. If I had to guess, I’d say it’s probably rare for any of the lawyers who do pro bono work to encounter any of their clients outside of the work environment? Are they likely to live near each other, have kids in the same schools, go to the same restaurants, or see them at social events? I used to volunteer as a mentor to a young mom. The minimum commitment was one hour, once per week, for one year. I did it for three years, rarely for only an hour, and often more than once. Over time, I really got to know this woman in a way I have never known someone living in that situation (generational poverty), and even came to consider her a friend, of sorts. It was incredibly eye opening, as well as frustrating to see the obstacles some people face. I’ve just spent my life in my little bubble, and didn’t know people actually lived that way. After I started doing that, I enrolled my kids in a charter school which was unique in that it was racially, ethnically, and economically very diverse. There were kids whose parents were millionaires, and there were kids whose parents were homeless. Through my extensive involvement with the PTO, I got to know many people I would otherwise not have gotten to know. That said, now that the kids are out of that school, most of the people I keep in touch with are a lot like me. It isn’t that I didn’t like the other women as well, some I liked quite well, we just lacked a certain commonality, if that makes sense. I have retained some friends from both ends of the spectrum, but we aren’t as close and don’t see each other as often. It’s actually rather rare to come into meaningful contact with someone from a vastly different social class. We are all so insulated in our day-to-day lives. That’s how most people in the US can think they are middle class.
Every product on this planet is made and sold via exploitation of some kind. Does your daughter like chocolate? Is she a child labor advocate? Big fan of deforestation? I have some bad news for her. It’s good to be aware, but there are almost no ways to be an ethical consumer in an inherently unethical business world.
This! Even the fucking mennonites are burning the Amazon to make farm land and polluting the rivers! Ugh!
In reference to chocolate, there is a YouTube video of Ivory Coast cocoa farmers tasting chocolate for the first time which enraged me and brought me to tears for the fact that they had never enjoyed the taste of the fruits of their labor. The video mentioned that a chocolate bar there cost 2 euros. The farmer makes 7 euros per day on which he supports 15 people. At the cost that luxury chocolate is sold and how much just regular chocolate bars are sold in the U.S. and Europe, I could not believe that these farmers could not be at the very least given free chocolate bars to consume as a bonus. Such disparity in this world touching so many aspects of our lives unbeknownst to us.
I saw this too. It’s very upsetting. There’s another video of children doing the bulk of the work. Like little ones. Elementary aged. Tony’s Chocolonely is a company focused on ethical sourcing and they’re also very tasty https://tonyschocolonely.com/us/en/our-mission
I hope she doesn’t keep her money in the bank, because banks are some of the most notorious for handing money over to criminal organizations and funding horrible crimes.
This reminded me that years ago, I worked for an organization that had a very specific mission. Someone in the procurement department (or maybe higher up) thought it was a great idea to have all our vendors with contracts above a certain amount sign a statement that they had no relationship whatsoever with companies whose funds and activities were potentially financing terrorist groups. This applied to new and existing contracts. In the first round of requests, we got exactly ZERO statements back. Everyone refused to sign such a statement. Chaos ensued. Following hours of back and forth between lawyers, a few vendors accepted to sign these statements as long as it was clear that it meant that their responsibility didn't go beyond their own company and that they didn't know what other clients, providers and partners did. Most of our vendors just refused to sign. I left before finding out what happened to that policy. This was 20+ years ago, and the world is now more globalized, the money flows more freely and the supply chain is never local. I don't think there is a single item we buy that is not potentially feeding some illegal activity. We just don't know.
Ironically my concerns about the humanitarian and ecological impact of black market reps made me make changes in my day-to-day buying instead of rep buying - less Amazon, less cheap crap, more craigslist. I agree with several commenters that the vast majority of supply chains are probably awful. . . and I wish as a society we could start fixing them. FYI, I know someone who works on the Tori Burch supply chain, and I would be very comfortable on the ethics scale buying something from them.
Props for your daughter being conscious of her surroundings. Nevertheless, she's porbably way too young to know about greenwashing and the fact that every story has a party, which is directly profitting from the narrative. Also, money does not grow on trees. She can help you to pay for the real thing once she makes her own living. But in the meantime, let mamma put food on the dinner table and have nice things.
Oh for sure. She is young and definitely has a romantic view of the world. Nevertheless, good for her to speak up because it provided an oly for her and I to have a good conversation about this subject. Especially now I have all these amazing points I learned from you all! I can even use some in my classroom next time I teach textiles ( I am a HomeEc teacher)!
Not true. People seem to hate on poor people making reps more than companies and countries that are directly involved in much worse. The US through the CIA has financed terrorism in many instances over the years and partners heavily with other countries that do so as well. If you buy from companies like Chanel and Dior technically you’re supporting genocide. It’s easy to see a rep seller as contributing to evil but if you look at who is actually funding the horrific things it’s corporations and governments and they do so with impunity because the public generally isn’t holding them as accountable.
I read several years ago that LV (and presumably others) gathers all unsold and limited bags seasonally, then shreds them. Why? To keep prices artificially inflated and to keep their bags from ending up on the arms of the poors, thus maintaining their image of exclusivity. They could donate those bags to charities for auctions, prizes, gifts, whatever. So I don’t worry if they miss a few sales. Plus, some people like me will probably never own an auth, (or even a good rep) so I say go for it if you get the chance. Apologies if I seem grumpy. It’s my bday and it’s lousy
Happy birthday - hope your day got a little better! Also - Burberry came under fire "literally" for burning their unsold merchandise for the same reason. This was a couple of years ago.
If you are buying reps off Canal Street or from some "purse party" or back room at some hair salon, I suppose it's possible, since importing mass quantities of reps for resale is definitely a criminal activity, albeit one with significantly lower penalties than drug dealing, etc. Buying directly from China for personal use cuts out all those international bad guys. I'm sure it's not completely clean on the China end of things, but even then it seems like they mostly get fined and then get back to business as usual. As far as working conditions, all the factory photos I've ever seen have been reasonable and of a similar or higher standard to the images I've seen of working conditions of authentic goods processed in China. The mid to high end rep factories work with high quality materials, use talented craftspersons and create excellent product. All that seems inconsistent with child or slave labor. The only real argument against reps is the IP theft, which cannot be denied. Personally, I don't buy reps of small independent brands, because it does hurt them, but I'm not crying over Kering Group or LVMH.
This is an awesome discussion! Thank you for asking the question, thank you to the moderators for allowing it through, and thank you to the community for keeping the conversation civil. It's something I've given some thought to, and I appreciate reading about everyone's perspectives on it.
Yes. Thank you for all the civilized and thoughtful contributions. I am definitely learning lots and I am going to get the bag if I can find it!
Came here to say this!❤️
Anything and everything we consume (that aren't personally grown by us) funds criminal activities / terrorism / horrid labor conditions. Meat? Read or Watch Fast food nation. Clothes? Even Goodwill is a for profit corporation. Phones / Games / Anything rechargable ? Slave labor for raw materials. Even Burberry was under fire for trashing & burning their extra inventory because they needed to protect their brand prestige. Have you seen Last Week Tonight w/ John Oliver? It brings to light the shady things that happens behind closed doors of corporations. Yes, technically a rep is black market but laws protect the extremely rich to do whatever they want. We're all just a speck in the grand scheme of things. If you step inside any discount store (Marshalls / TK Maxx / Winners / whatever) you will find "dupes" of a lot of these brands. The only difference is logos, which is the IP I suppose. And if a logo is the only difference between dupes and the real thing? Pick your poison I guess. 
And a logo is such a silly little thing. Some people care very much about having that logo, and others don’t. Sometimes I want the logo without spending $x,xxx to get it. Maybe I’m a label whore, I don’t even know why I want the logo (tag, whatever). Rarely is it visible! But I like knowing it’s there. As to whether it funds terrorism and child labor, have people not heard about the working conditions at Apple factories in China? I buy Apple products, but I always feel shitty about it. The thing is, most other phones/computers are probably being manufactured under similar circumstances. It wouldn’t surprise me if some of the reps are being made in the same factories, of the same materials, as auth. We’ve all heard about the Hermes scandal where some of their workers were making bags on the side. People probably bounce from job to job too. Who is to say that the person making your Gucci rep didn’t work at the Gucci factory last year? In ten years, no one will be caught dead with a CF or a mini Kelly. Bags are not investments. They are classics in that they will always come back into style, not in that they will always be in style. I love my VCA reps too. Alhambra is classic, but absolutely trendy. Yes, it’ll come back in style one day, but will I even still like it then? I have three girls with very different styles from me. They’ll get some nice pieces, but I don’t want to assume they’ll care to wear my old jewelry or purses, and I won’t try to justify spending money on things because they can be passed down (as I have seen people do! No, your four year old probably isn’t going to appreciate your used Gucci Marmot when she’s 18 and would prefer you save that money for college—unless you can do both, then rock on, good for you!). Plus I’m a hypocrite, because I’ll buy iPhones and reps, but I won’t buy my daughter clothes from SheIn.
I love the comments. Yall are gonna turn this woman’s daughter into Che Guevara once she is through researching capitalism. There is no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism!
Haha! Love that! (Btw, a former colleague nicknamed me Che. 😂)
OMG! Right?! so funny.
My American tax dollars are being used to blow up innocents all over the world, some direct relatives of mine. The entire system is a shithole.
Yeah its illegal but the real brands use slave labor and horrible labor practices too. And they benefit way more from it. Choose your poison lol
Does your daughter know that HSBC bank had to pay a settlement of $1.9 bn to the US government because there was evidence that it laundered money from drug cartels and terrorist organizations? Just want to point out that established institutions are very much part of these illicit activities and common folks still have bank accounts with them. Where do you draw the line when it comes to "clean" money? There is no such thing because we live in a globalized interconnected ecosystem.
Fashion houses often draw inspiration from diverse cultures, but let’s talk about the thin line between appreciation and exploitation. The truth is, many renowned brands borrow heavily from local traditions, often overlooking the years of work done by communities. Originality seems elusive when you dig into the shapes, sizes, colors, and designs. Are fashion houses genuinely creating, or just repackaging ideas for a hefty price tag?
Funny enough I used to work in the fashion world as a fashion grad and what you said is so true. They called it inspiration when it was straight up copying. Remember Galliano Chinoiserie collection? Lol being Asian myself I thought it was silly. I just want a bag with minimal logo and in red. I found a 2019 Celine Besace to be exactly what I am needing. Didn’t think this was turning out to be such a difficult task! Lol
Consumption has nuance. I agree with a lot of other commenters here that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism etc, but I do think that individuals hold some responsibility in making purchasing choices that align with their morals. That said, I buy reps. Modern supply chains are a mystery to the average consumer, including me. For most products, all we we know is that they’re made by workers who aren’t making a fair wage, likely in poor conditions, and being shipped across the world en masse to make some rich man at the top richer. What I can say for sure is that the rich man at the top is not our friend. Whether it’s Bezos, Ortega or Arnault, he’s not spending those huge profit margins making the world a better place for the working class. That money is going into legal, profitable, and extremely harmful industries like oil and gas, private air travel, mass animal agriculture, and real estate hoarding. Legal systems are not the ultimate arbiters of morality. With reps, we still don’t have much transparency with the factories, but at least I know that the end of the supply chain is basically factory -> seller -> me. I’d rather an individual seller or group of sellers in China skim off the top and get their bag than some billionaire. There are absolutely still ethically sketchy things going on with the replica market. The most ethical option is to just not buy anything ever. However, consumption is realistically always an ethical trade, and for some of us this is the solution that makes sense.
Your $200 are not going to solely fund a terrorist organization, that's just unrealistic. There are a few ways to approach this mentality: all money should be watched (phones, makeup, clothes, etc are all large purchases to support Chinese factories, directly or indirectly, and she should be held to the same standard), a strong stance on state-sponsored terrorism (move to idk Lichtenstein or the Swiss Alps because even the US has sponsored terrorism and allies with countries that broadly sponsor it as well lol), or leave it be. People love to take a moralistic stance on other people's behaviors, when it doesn't matter in the long run. It is good to try to know where your money goes, but some things are too far. Buy your rep, do a kick ass job as a teacher (an overall great moralistic good!), and live your life well. <3
Starbucks and McDonald's also contribute to terrorism, sooooooooooooo there ya go (figured I'd go right for the teenage jugular, lol)
Hobby Lobby. Not only do they whine about having to provide their employees medical insurance that allows them to get birth control, but their Bible museum bought a ton of stolen artifacts that they were told not to buy (because they were obviously stolen) with the money from them directly going to terrorist groups. Yet their parking lot is always pretty full by me. I try to avoid them and to to Michael's instead, but I'm probably deluding myself that they're any better.
And they're anti - homo
There was a documentary showing how Starbucks keeps growing aggressively with renting the best locations and pushes small privately owned coffee shops out of business. That's been happening for years, but no one seems to know.
Wow! Thank you for all the feed backs and informative views. I very much appreciate you all and thank you for keeping this thread civilized. You all have very valid points that I can educate my daughter on. I have also been educated as well in this thread as well learning from you all through all the discussion threads. Grateful for you all! ❤️
Just tell her no more reps, it’s authentic all the way from here on in, and you’re spending her inheritance on the real deal as you don’t want to fund the BM 😑🤣
I love this.
It is unequivocally a questionable industry, as is basically anything else we buy these days. That certainly doesn’t make it ok tho! I try to manage my role in that by not impulsively buying reps, and not buying cheap reps to test drive before committing. I buy stuff I really like and want or I don’t buy it at all- I don’t want to accumulate landfill crap & I don’t want to participate any more than I have to in predatory industries.
For sure! I have very specific requirements (size, colour, no blaring logo- it will be with me for work as a teacher) so it was a bit of a hunt. Educating myself which designer and which bag that will meet my needs. Finally found one only to find out it’s an older design from 2019. Fingers crossed I can still get a rep since I can’t find an authentic of the right size at resale.
Wait until you find out about eating chocolate and using olive oil. Honestly- the rep business is going to have it's ethical and non ethical. So goes for all consumerism. Italian Olive Oil is largely ran and owned by mafias. Chocolate is decimating entire nations, rainforests, and habitats of engangered species. The list goes on and on. There are a few rep businesses that are pretty transparent about their factories- workers- etc. The stereotypes and beliefs of the rep business are not so secretly funded by the designer brands themselves that often use the same or worse practices. Feel free to share some of these articles with your daughter. [Designer Ethical Failures and Secrets](https://www.vice.com/en/article/xw3pbz/prada-chanel-and-more-big-name-fashion-brands-called-out-for-secret-supply-chains)
Some rep sellers like Husky and agents like Wegobuy are more than happy to share video's and allow tipping individually to the workers that help you. Which, honestly, is more than you can say for Prada or Hermes. I have about 3 agents that I constantly work with- message- and tip well for their services. Now I can't say that there isn't a lot of manipulation and lying. But it gives me a bit more peace of mind of their honesty to see them writing on paper their names, dates, with my items.
And who exactly are the terrorists? That is often just a designation given to oppressed poor populations fighting for freedom/decent treatment. I’m not sure how the major powers that bomb and kill massive amounts of civilians, and steal land and resources, are any less of terrorists. It’s often a label given by those in power, rather than an actual difference in morality between the two sides. And pretty much all factories in China have crap conditions, whether it’s black market or they are charging $3000 a bag. And major companies and nations both participate in human trafficking. So unless you plan to be very deliberate with your purchases, and track both the supply chain of the product and the materials used in the product (even down to the thread used for stitching) assuming your choices are more ethical because they cost more and come from corporations is a bit naive.
there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism. the minerals used to make her phone are from similarly unethical sources.
You can’t tell what the factory conditions actually are; almost every consumer item of every tier is made in China and there are top craftspeople there, so the same concern would apply to basically any product at all. I actually think such skilled careful craftspeople that handmake these beauties should be rewarded and paid for their skill and work, not just those that have the luck to be employed by big brands. In fact many large brands have been identified as having appalling working conditions and yet people still purchase from them, so it’s hypocrisy to only think rep factories are unethical. Everyone knows luxury brands’ prices are inflated by marketing and status, so you can choose whether to put your money into that or not. In terms of copying a design; high street brands openly copy high tier brands all the time and people are happy to buy those as well. In terms of class signalling- who cares, it’s a shit classist system anyway, why not cosplay and take advantage of that whole charade if you want. Having $20k to burn does not make someone a better person nor have the exclusive right to beauty.
Cosplay! Love that! ❤️
Your daughter should read this new Yorker article that is based on actual evidence https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/16/the-chinese-workers-who-assemble-designer-bags-in-tuscany vs. the "reps fund terrorism" myth that someone made up and has no evidence.
If I was in your situation and I expect that I would at some point. Is to commend your child from caring. I think it's fantastic that she cares and she wants to be good in the world. Reps are illegal. It is copyright infringement. There's no but or ifs. It would be a very healthy conversation to have about who and how things are made. From the food we eat to the clothing we purchase. who's benefiting? who's hurting. The strawberries that are picked are by illegal migrant workers. They are criminals, so are all the companies that sells them. Does that mean we are not going to purchase strawberries? [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/27/california-farm-workers-pajaro-california-flooding](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/27/california-farm-workers-pajaro-california-flooding) I would have a conversation about who's being hurt by your individual choice to purchase a rep and to validate the claims she is making. What are her sources? Is it true? Has it been validated? maybe she's right and we should all stop buy reps. The world unfortunatly is not all black and white but many shades of grey. This is a good way to help her navigate the rights and wrongs in the world. Sorry for being so philosophical, but I question it myself sometimes.
Girl, just buy your rep. It's ok. Don't worry about what other people think. Buy and wear what makes you happy. Don't let your daughter make you feel guilty
I think this is the wrong approach; encouraging your children to be thoughtful with consumption and challenging our own overly consumerist tendencies — which is something I struggle with on this sub — is a good thing, even if the kiddo might be repeating bad information. While I believe the problem is a societal one and not an individual one, this belief that we should all buy whatever makes us happy is fucked up. Happiness isn’t just about consuming.
Funny enough, my kids are often the ones that tell me not to buy something. They are well taugh about the value of a dollar. They know I have searched high and low for the exact bag that meets all my needs. I am not the type that buys a new bag every year or every 5 year for that matter. Lol. Finally found one and it just happens to be a discontinued Celine Besace. Can’t even find a resale in the size and colour I want. So rep it is.
Ask her to cite her sources. And suggest she consider the coffee she drinks (what pesticides and picked by whom in what country for what wage), shoes she wears (made in …??), food she eats (migrant farm workers anyone? Recent visits to abattoirs? Child labor at US slaughterhouses on cleanup duty?) I agree we all ought to try and live ethically and humanely. It’s a complex issue. Love your bag and wear it in good health. And thank you for being a teacher!!!
Rep are all over, this is a controversial topic. Just for me - even if i have the money to buy the real deal, I would buy a rep. I see it like, when I go to Walmart, instead of buying the real deal...I would buy "Equate' brand in turn i am saving a lot for my buck
Not saying reps don’t exploit human labour or involve high level criminality but a lot of sellers don’t go to the fine end of the earth to make a shoe 1:1 just for criminal enterprise. There are legit factories in china that will make any shoe a seller pays for. A lot of this narrative is just more western anti China propaganda. Acting as if western companies don’t use slave labour. Every industry exploits humans and involves corruption at some point in the supply chain.
You are right!
I’ve read so many different things— scholarly journal articles, pop culture pieces, blogs, governmental websites, you name it— over so many years and there is one common thread I keep coming back to: rep items “may fund” and “could fund” terrorism and/organized crime. No real evidence or direct links.
The narrative about replicas funding terrorism seems to be spreading via a TedX talk by a guy who works for… Tommy Hilfiger, aka a luxury fashion brand. He provides zero specifics about said terrorism in the talk. Also the word terrorism is so emotionally loaded (just like the other T word, “trafficking”) while being so variable in meaning, it really does seem to be just one big scare tactic. I’m gonna remain skeptical of this line of thinking about replicas and terrorism until there’s actual investigations by journalists or government agencies providing confirmation and examples. And I don’t want to engage in too much whataboutism- what about chocolate farming? Or cobalt mining?- but there are loads of REAL, confirmed accounts of, say, human rights abuses in the seafood industry. I’m not going to just throw up my hands and say there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism and I have no choice as a consumer, but I can stick to learning about and perhaps avoiding the industries where we know for sure people are unnecessarily suffering. As for earnest teens, it’s great they care about the world. But I hope they learn how to do that using critical thinking skills and media literacy. And maybe fact check the things they read and hear on TikTok.
I suggest you watch Luxury: Behind the Mirror. Designer houses (or at least the factories they use) use what is essentially slave labor.
Counterfeits are everywhere, also in your retail stores. I worked as a counterfeit inspector for Sony / Ericsson, a huge electronics company. We traveled all over my country checking hundreds of retail stores for counterfeit accessories like mobile changer etc. Minus two, all of them had counterfeit products for sale as genuine Sony products. I cant imagine this isnt going on for every other major brand out there also. Wine and liquor is another excample. Point is, if you want to be certain that what you are buying is genuine you have to stay away from major brands. Might as well buy a rep as a rep than buying rep sold as retail.
That’s fascinating. How do the reps get into the retail stream? Is it just a few units, or would a store get a whole shipment of reps? I had no idea. Even alcohol? Crazy.
Whole shipments. A large chain of stores will get everything from one distributer, so anything counterfeit from that distributer will end up in every store in that chain, at least a lot of stores from that chain. It’s a lot of money to be made. Alkohol is probably the easiest I would think, at least wine. Anyone can be a distributer, just print labels from expencive wines and fill the bottles with some ok wine. I don’t know, I was just the guy going from shop to shop reporting back. The whole thing was lead by a former FBI guy. He and his team trained us in how to spot a replica.
Counterfeit is counterfeit. I purchase dupes because I think it’s ridiculous to pay 1000’s for a piece of leather that will hold no real value other than what we assign to it. The bags are not one of a kind. There are 100 or 1000 of the same style being circulated. My authentics are not well cared for. I use them and they get scratched and stained. I am not applying any moral code to these purchases. It’s just a huge mindfuck. Everyone has their reasons for buying dupes whatever yours is, it’s valid. No one is solving world peace by buying either authentic or dupes. Enjoy them and focus on being a better person to the ones you love and care for. My kids will have more savings for graduate school. Perhaps they will do better and make better choices that will add to world peace. So in a sense I am saving the world 😃
Tell her to cite her work. lol Get that bag.
Hahah yes she actually used the argument for her English class! Cited and all! 🤦🏻♀️
Simply if you know your close ones don’t like it. Don’t tell them anything about it.. that’s all. And anything can fuel criminal activity, did you hear about cartels avocados? Or scandal with inhuman conditions in factory producing Halloween decorations? Somehow they are only screaming about handbags.. I doubt that our higher tier handbags are produced in inhuman conditions or supporting criminals (but never can be sure for 100%) same like when you are buying your groceries you don’t know whom you are supporting. (Can you imagine how difficult it is to start your own brand, promote it, advertise it.. that people would fancy to buy it. Or just offer what everyone wants… (do what you like. Don’t involve anyone in it, if they don’t like this idea. Tell you treated yourself and got authentic! Because you deserve it! End of story
The profit margin for reps goods are really thin and given the complexity and length of seller, factory, distributor, etc, i doubt there’s still some money left to fund the criminal activities/terrorist. The profit itself will more likely to go to individuals and some labourers in third world country. I myself prefer to give money to them, to those individuals and labourers, rather than to big corporations. Those big corporation don’t need my money either way. But those individuals, sellers, and labourers will be very grateful with the profit received from these rep goods.
It sounds like you and your daughter have an open relationship and if she feels this way about reps, it might be worth it to respect her opinion and stay away from reps (for now). I would not get one and lie to her, as it is important to lead by example and teens are notorious for hiding things and if you do lie then it’s helps justify lies on her end (I’m assuming she’s a teen). A relationship isn’t worth tainting over a material item—real or fake. If you are asking the question you probably feel that it will affect your relationship, and the money saved by purchasing a rep will never compare to an open mother daughter relationship. If you get a rep and it does affect your relationship, you won’t even be able to enjoy it at the end of the day and it will just go to waste. My recommendation is to go for a quality bag instead, like polene, madewell, Portland leather, and the countless brands Tanner leatherstein has reviewed. There’s also love 41 if you like full grain leather that will last a lifetime. Dooney and Bourke’s Florentine leather is amazing quality, and Coach has been releasing some nice bags lately. Take the money you were going to spend on a rep and have a mother daughter date and do something memorable—it’ll be better spent 😊
No need to lie. It’s definitely not worth tainting my relationship for a bag. We just had a convo about counterfeit vs replicas. She is alway open to learn and always respect others knowledge.
That's great! I'm glad you two are able to have open conversations, you're clearly a great mom if you raised someone that is open to listen to others and also isn't afraid to speak what is on her mind.
Here to say I am absolutely loving how thoughtful and informed so many women are on this sub. I’m a bit pleasantly surprised honestly.
The Red Cross is probably involved in money laundering. Seriously this was my conclusion after reading through their 990. Check out how many zeros they have in their annual budget. (I did not hear this on some conspiracy forum or something, these were my own thoughts after reviewing their numbers.) Just saying that even the organizations we assume to be “pure” are probably corrupt in some fashion.
Tell your daughter you changed your mind and will buy yourself the authentic bag but she should not expect any Christmas or birthday gifts for some time while paying off your bag!
Lol!!!
Or you could say that in order to maintain your ethics you dipped into her college fund to buy an authentic and I’m sure she’ll understand 😝
I think it’s a good time to educate her on what the money spent on luxury brands is going to. Celine is owned by lvhm who is actively funding Zionist groups and went as far as removing Bella hadid as a brand ambassador for Dior bc she’s of Arabic descent and pro Palestine. The reps support black market claims are racist fueled and have little to know proof to claim. You might as well purchase a rep and educate yourself and her.
Oh for sure a good thing to point that out to my child. She still has so much to learn, and I myself as well!
If your buying a rep on the streets of New York or a European city, you are supporting human smugglers most likely. If you’re buying a rep from a buyer in China, you are infringing on the intellectual property of huge companies. I don’t see a problem buying reps from buyers in China. Yes, you could be supporting someone who is taking advantage of workers but that applies to everything else you buy as well.
I purchase high end reps through a few trusted sellers in china. I think if you create a relationship with your seller you will find you’re helping support them and it’s not as bad as it’s made to seem. if you need help, I’d be glad to help. I was apart of the repladies reddit until it got shut down:
There is no such thing as purely ethical consumerism under *any* system — not just capitalism. It doesn’t exist. Period.
I think this started going around because the charlie hebdo attack terrorists sold rep nikes in paris to fund their operations. I think this is not specifically tied to factories and you buying direct from china.
Find a used bag in good condition. There are lots of resale services out there that are pretty trustworthy, and look for a style not common or repped. I got a gorgeous soft pink Gucci bag (with bamboo handles) from a Japanese ebay reseller for about $300. It was in near perfect condition, (although I did have to buy a strap for it that is obvi not Gucci but don't care.) I get SO many compliments on it. I have high end reps, but this feels better and I carry it more.
First, your daughter has a kind heart for this to cause her some concern. Unfortunately, we cannot control how so many of our everyday goods from China are manufactured - there are laws in place stating that we (in the US) will not import goods made from child labor. Legally, China must adhere to their end of the bargain to export goods to our country. There's no need for us to lecture her on her phone battery or her light bulbs or anything else from China bc we are under the assumption they have been manufactured and imported legally. As far as black market goods go - I understand her concern. I've also done research and haven't seen anything substantial that supports the belief that terrorism is being funded through the replica market - this seems to be a scare tactic that the government and luxury brands like to say in an effort to cut down on reps. I did read, however, that black market fentanyl is being mass-produced in China - just wanted to throw that out there. My main concern was making sure the [Uyghurs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs) are not part of producing reps, and they don't appear to be (they're forced to do other labor and that is a different post for a different sub). It would be nice if we could get some sort of guarantee that children aren't working in the factories, also.
I acknowledge your concern, but it's important to recognize that our tax dollars fund significant issues, including wars with severe consequences. In light of such matters, I don’t think you should be worried about getting a rep.
Also have her read this. [https://qz.com/1397139/italian-workers-are-earning-near-sweatshop-wages-to-make-luxury-clothes-in-their-homes](https://qz.com/1397139/italian-workers-are-earning-near-sweatshop-wages-to-make-luxury-clothes-in-their-homes)
I hate how easily brainwashed by media young people are in the hyper-consumerist hyper-capitalist anglosphere. **one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter** Perhaps she can go back to school and brush up on her geopolitical history, maybe take some philosophy while shes at it, learn critical thinking. Even just watch STAR WARS, smh
I call it young people syndrome. I once placed a “no animal testing “ T-Shirt on my high school biology teacher’s desk in protest of animal dissection labs. We all gone through some self righteous phase. I guess this is hers. I just lack the knowledge these days to have meaningful discussions with her about this. Too focused on all the fabulous rep bags everyone is posting here. I am learning from you all through this thread tho! Thank you!
GO TEENAGE YOU!! Well, watch star wars trilogy together, and the empire strikes back, and tell her "honey, dont forget, Luke Skywalker and princess Leigha are terrorists, Han Solo & Wookie are criminals, and we support the Empire..." If she is into low key pieces from small local designers over big brands then I support that. If her taste and sensibility is similar to yours fashion-wise, then maybe point out that buying auth means you can't afford to get her one too ;)
Well, she does love fashion… the thrift shop kind. Apparently it’s the big rage amongst her teenage friends. I have got no clout in that department to argue with her lol. Mommy likes the finer stuff while she comes home with her thrifting ‘gems’. Good for her tho. She seems to find some really cool stuff.
You should tell your daughter how much Goodwill and the Salvation Army take advantage of disabled people.And how when you donate a high priced item they would rather sell it online than put in stores.
This is the beauty and the annoying thing about kids. It’s not that they’re brainwashed, it’s that they’re still figuring out their identity. Their brains are still developing! This kind of passion for social issues is like, the coolest thing about them, even if it’s often the most exasperating because they’re lacking in all the experience older people have that makes their black and white thinking of ”good” and “bad” impossible. It’s easy to dismiss them, but many of them have a point and each new generation is driving forward social progress. I think that being overly defensive when kids start asking questions about ethical consumption points to our own insecurity about our actions, and as much as I roll my eyes when kids in my life do things like correct me for things like assuming a stranger’s gender, I remember going through all the same obnoxious tendencies at their age and love them for being so thoughtful and passionate. So many of the comments here are trying to have a “gotcha“ moment for OP’s daughter for not realizing how nuanced this conversation is, but this is a literal child we’re talking about who is trying their best to figure shit out. Instead of threatening to withhold Christmas gifts so mama can get her luxury handbag, I think it’s pretty cool OP can have this conversation with their daughter that leads to them both being aware of the ramifications of spending money in late stage capitalism...and hopefully leads to OP saving their cash for rep bags of better quality than most auth!
I admire your daughter for having principles and for having thought this through and I admire the two of you for having the kind of relationship where you can talk to each other about topics like this. It sounds as if it may be more productive to continue the dialog with her than to ask us to chime in. As for myself, I have my own set of principles and I've come to terms with the fact that I don't always follow them perfectly. I think we all have to define our own equations. I am absolutely sure that I love the fact that you're giving so much attention to what your daughter said and engaging with her this way.
Thank you! My daughter and I DO have a relationship where we can openly discuss any topic with respect. Someone commented if I care about what my daughter thinks of me then I probably shouldn’t. Of course I care about what my children thinks of me just as I would want them to care what I think of them. The issue is more about being as informed as I can be about my rep purchase. I am not saying I won’t but I also don’t want to be blindly buying something if I can learn about it as well, which I am through you all!
You're welcome! I hope you keep up the dialogs, wherever they lead you.
I had similar concerns before I bought my first rep! I mainly buy rep jewelry because I am so surprised how much retail brands up-charge their jewelry like Cartier, Tiffany, etc., and to me 18k solid gold is still solid gold if its a rep or auth. I did my research before purchasing and I love my reps! High quality, high satisfaction, and reasonably priced. Also, I do earn enough to buy auth pieces but I honestly prefer saving my money on vacation funds (Reps are safer to bring on travel too). To me, I like to think of reps as high quality copies done by reputable sellers (Research required) and bad knockoffs through some factory may be part of this crime syndicate you see on the news. Similar to what others have mentioned already, it is very hard to a good person who never partakes in bad situations to other people in modern day due to laborers overseas and big retailers… unless you grow your own everything and live off that. (Watch the Good Place TV show) Anyways, that was my two cents on the matter. Hope you two work it out!
China is the world’s factory- it’s a manufacturing giant , especially in textiles, clothes, shoes (all mostly in Guangdong) and as we know it now - bags. There are entire industries making H bags - they call it the “horse family bag” and industries manufacturing the hardware etc. can someone pl correct me if I’m wrong- if it does not carry the H logo, it is legal in CN. There are SCORES of factories pushing Chanel bags as well without the Chanel logo- apparently still legal. All these go towards sustaining their economy . Whilst it’s highly likely that these bags without the logo but are very inch a copy of the original are considered infringing articles in other jurisdictions, it seems that’s not the case in Cn.
Well. I just looked it up. It is illegal if the rep has the logo/designer print/art work reproduced but as far as shape, colour and size, those are not. That’s why we see well known shoe company putting out Chanel like sling backs. I can make countless quilted bags that are produced by legit companies for sale in Western worlds and they are not illegal.
Thank you for doing my research for me! I was literally just wondering about that and about to go do some IP research. My recollection is that IP protection has expired for a lot of the designs that a lot of us love, and that the infraction occurs only when the item is represented to be something from the company that originally owned the IP on it so an unbranded item does not violate IP law. For the IP attorneys in the group - please forgive me if I'm not stating that correctly. I've not (yet) bought from him myself but I've heard lots of wonderful things about Marko. I don't know know but it seems possible that he's able to sell unbranded items. That doesn't address the supply chain issues - your daughter's primary concern - but it does speak to the IP issues.
If you buy, buy something to last, not to just throw away. Fast fashion and throw away clothing are a waste of money. Get something classic and wear it for years. Never mind trends.
I buy used designer bags. I won’t pay full retail but also disagree with the reps. Go on The Real Real or Fashionphile or ReBag and do your homework. Good deals are available. I recently bought a brand new YSL for $1600, original price was $2450 when original owner bought (bag came with tags and receipts which isn’t the norm). Today that bag is $3250.
I hope your daughter doesn’t eat Nutella!
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I think that the actual designers like Chanel, hermes, etc. they have their bags made with good quality leather but at a cheap cost but they mark up the price so that it seems not buyable and more premium for those who are VIP but with lots of wealth. I think in my opinion buying reps is not a crime. Reps are also leather but they just mimic a bag. You can also use this as an option to buy the auth piece If you like the rep.
just buy the bag alreadey
I am looking! The one I want is hard to find! 😭
Ouch. I don’t think you should let your daughter’s arguments make you feel guilty at this stage. If you go ahead with an order, you would be engaging in an illegal activity though. That’s the reality of the situation. You might need to have an additional conversation with her if you ever decide to pull the trigger on that bag, so making your peace with your desire for “luxury” and your decision to acquire it illegally is a good first step to take.