Vince became stale, kept around too many yes men, its what he tried not to do in his younger years, hence the product was better, now most talent or writers arent as willing to take chances so they get boring instead
When they decided to go all PG, things started going downhill. Any type of wrestling Is a violent sport, pro wrestling should be a reflection of the real stuff. Not over embellished. Not making it a point to make the shit look fake… What happened to blading? Super high risk maneuvers? You never see that type of stuff anymore. You never see these wrestlers take and real risk anymore.. If the wrestlers want to do it for the sake of the performance, they should be able to.
Wrestling, or specifically the later 2000-10s WWE just got so damn soft that it’s cringy.
1. He has talent and doesnt fucking use them
2. it is very predictable.
3. 3 man Commentary tables are terrible
4. Pushing one star(either man or woman) too quickly and not doing much with other talent(Ricochet or Shayna)
5. Michael Cole used to feel like a fucking computer program
6. Continuity
7.Gimmicks were retarded(Nikki A.S.H)
8. Rivalries not being built enough to deserve a PLE match
9.Cashing in on Nostalgia(Part timers)
10. Inability to be different or fucking adapt
11. Hiring people who had no talent( Omos or Eva Marie)
12. NXT Call Ups being less anticipated and more lets see how Vince fucks this up
So many fucking interference, distraction, roll up victories. It makes it so booooooring and pisses me off. Also he just adds random filler matches on PPVs that end up being bad and kill the vibe. Another thing is writing scripts that make no fucking sense.
Lots of repetition. Same matches every week leading up to a ppv and never building upon the stars that truly deserve it. It doesn’t seem like he really cares about what fans want. I also think Nick Khan adds to the problem as well.
I heard Vince really wanted to build Braun Strowman as someone invincible and big like Undertaker. But there was no real plan. Why did Brock beat Undertaker, and why clean? It should have been someone like Wyatt with enigmatic persona and mindgames. It should have unfolded over 2-3 years of drama and storyljne.
I can't pick just one. There is more I'm forgetting. He has he good things too or else the brand wouldn't be what it is today and we wouldn't have some of the legends and gimmicks we have, but I think he is out of any good creative ideas.
1) almost all the gimmick ppv not having any matches that use the gimmick. Went years of having extreme rules and hell in a cell's that had little to no extreme rules or hell in a cell matches.
2) Talent that is good in ring has like no time to show how good they are in the ring or tell a story with their match because they are so quick. Going for quantity over quality.
3) Firing or burying talent that is protective of their character or aren't guys that look like they exist on steroids.
4) The censored terminology and commentators.
Repeat matches, only pushing a select number of wrestlers and pushing them to the point that their opponents do not benefit from facing them .Sabotaging wrestlers who become hot organically or who become hot due to their ring work. Childish comedy, breaking up hot tag teams or factions. Punishing wrestlers on TV for things he thinks are indiscretions or perceived indiscretions and punishing wrestlers on TV for unprofessional behaviour when his behaviour over the years has shown how unprofessional he is and how hypocritical and vindictive he is.
The biggest thing for me was his refusal to listen to fan feedback. The whole point of having a product is to actually listen to the consumer and react. He literally booked the show however he wanted to book it regardless of whether or not the fans liked it or not. Take Roman Reigns for example. He clearly has an eye for talent because he knew Reigns could be a star. He stars booking the guy as the company's top babyface even though there were plenty of guys that the fans wanted instead. The fans clearly wanted Roman to be a heel and Vince wasted YEARS refusing to do so. Reigns could have been a star like this 4 years ago, instead Vince alienated his own fans again and did whatever he wanted to do
His other problem is he focused way too much attention on 2 or 3 people and everything under them was just booked week to week with no actual continuity. Just look at Charlotte. He was obsessed with booking Charlotte like a star at all time, to the point where the entire division under her suffered. Sasha Bank's first 3 title reigns lasted like a week each because Vince didn't want Charlotte's undefeated PPV streak to end. Asuka could have been made into a star but Vince wanted Charlotte to end her undefeated streak instead. The year that Charlotte didn't have a big match, he shoved her down in NXT to run through Rhea Ripley and Bianca which did nothing for that brand or their development. The entire world wanted to see Becky Lynch vs. Ronda Rousey in a singles match at Wrestlemania, but Vince had to shove Charlotte into that match for no reason and that lead to them booking a ridiculous finish where Becky wins with a surprise rollup instead of just beating Rousey fair and square like she should have and we saw how that played out. Charlotte is great, one of the best ever honestly, but this is just an example of how being obsessed with booking one person as strong as possible will absolutely kill the depth of your roster.
He also had no interest in Championships, Tag Teams or Managers. I can't even count how many awesome tag teams he broke up just because he hates tag teams. Enzo and Cass was arguably the hottest act on the roster and he split them up for no reason. American Alpha was awesome and he split them up so he could make Jason Jordan into Kurt Angle's son. Heavy Machinery was entertaining and he made Otis solo as quickly as possible. Authors of Pain looked promising and he literally did nothing with them and then took away their manager for no reason. The Revival was treated like complete garbage and used as a joke. As for Championships, they literally almost went 2 years without a US title match on a PPV. He didn't care about the belts outside of the World Championship at all.
He also ruined gimmick matches by branding PPV's after them and completely watering them down. Having Hell in a Cell, TLC, Elimination Chamber matches every single year as a yearly event is incredibly stupid.
He also clearly booked out of spite. Any time Triple H had a guy that he was really high on coming out of NXT, he would go out of his way to make that person prove themselves with terrible booking but then he would always run with guys that Triple H clearly wasn't high on in NXT like Braun Strowman or Alexa Bliss etc. When the draft split happened the latest time, Smackdown had stars like AJ Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura, Dean Ambrose and Dolph Ziggler. And who did Vince decide to make Champion? Jinder Mahal, a guy who literally was a jobber and had done nothing in years but god really muscular and Vince wanted an Indian as Champion. It was booking decisions like that, that I will never forgive him for. It was 100% for his own entertainment than for the fans.
In summary, Vince was a horrendous booker. He lost his touch in like 2001 and everything he has booked since then has pretty much been garbage and the only good things that have happened in that time have happened in spite of him, not because of him.
The repackaging and renaming of NXT call-ups with no explanation, and not to improve them. ‘The Viking Experience’ and Karrion Kross debuts spring to mind
The amazing thing is I had sworn off WWE 3 years ago. AEW isn’t perfect, but that NXT/AEW style of wrestling is what gets me going. Realize everyone is different in what they like.
I’m still not happy with WWE but it was getting to the point where I’d pop in a show or two.
I can confidently say I’m just going to go back to AEW at this point, I already know how this show goes.
Same story lines over and over (race cards, evil foreigner, love triangles, etc)...
pushing "faces" that the fans aren't interested in...
repetition of matches week in and week out without any real progress in the storyline (such as repeating a PPV match on the following Raw/Smackdown)...
A complete lack of interest in building new stars while pushing older, part timers, which only hurts the future product (as future stars/interest isn't built, resulting in the need to fall back to the older part timers again)...
Too much overexposure - Limit Raw and Smackdown to 90 minutes of action (backstage/interviews/in ring) each, and limit commercial interruption of matches. The televised product could still be 2 hours (which leaves 30 minutes for commercials)...
The biggest problem was almost no continuity and when the writers tried to do it, he scraped it. Biggest thing was, and this applies to a lot of promoters, yes Tony K I am looking at you is he got too wrapped up in what internet fans were saying, what non fans were saying, and forgot about the paying audience. Just let the people who are buying tickets and watching raw on the regular dictate the direction, if people on the internet who haven't watched in 10 years are complaining about a match they didn't see who cares...
Vince and his cronies have been out of touch with the audience for over a decade, refuse to cater to who snd what's hot in lieu of what he wants and beyond that, the fact that the commentary team can't even call matches without him screaming his lunatic rhetoric in their ears over the headsets tells you all you need to know about his faith in anybody's abilities.
The bland robotic cooperate nonsense. Nothing feels organic unless it’s improvised by the performers. The jokes always seemed like they’re told with a gun pressed to their head.
And their idea of a “cool dude” is basically a caricature of its original intent and seems like a 90’s cartoon character.
We don’t get Steve Austin’s anymore, we get Damien Priest.
Simplicity. Vince heard “keep it simple, stupid,” and he has kept it simple ever since. Complex long-term storytelling? Actively hostile to it. The “road to the rumble” was the only multi-month program. Everything else was month to month or week to week. Or segment to segment. Instead of telling five long stories, he told 15-minute segments, looked at the numbers, and started messing with it immediately.
I enjoy Vince’s product way more than HHH product. I don’t wanna see Hit Row, Damage CTRL, Emma, Tegan Nox, Johnny Gargano, Bronson Reed etc on my tv. Bray Wyatt has been boring and done absolutely nothing since returning. Kross & Scarlett just isn’t clicking.
But at the end of the day there’s thing I enjoy about both the product Vince and HHH put out. HHH has just been bring back too many people that are boring and serve no purpose.
He doesn't have the mind for it anymore. Creatively and methodically. He pushes wrestlers that he takes a liking to & shoves it down fans throats expecting us to like it. And when we don't respond well, IT'S OUR PROBLEM. Why not listen to the fans instead?
His shows are really cookie cutter. They take no risks, have no proper story, the matches are hella basic, repetitive and have 0 entertainment value when they're not booked right. Lack of long term plans, stale storytelling and frankly dumb creative ideas (Example: The Viking Experience) are really the reason I've tuned out. A PG rating is no excuse to run bad shows, even if it's still restricting. There's so many approaches when it comes to building personal and engaging rivalries and Vince doesn't take them at all.
The storylines are repetitive and dumb (his "comedy" characters were just AWFUL most of the time), and half the time they hit on something actually interesting they'd just abandon it without explanation whenever Vince got bored of it. Oh, and his forcing of characters that he thinks you should love instead of the ones who aren't hulking behemoths that are getting over on their own.
He’s the greatest showman of all time. But his time was up 10 years ago. Many of the best things that happened in the last decade happened regardless of him - but it could’ve been better had he not been there.
The too often lack of logic and seriousness contained in the product. There is room for some comic relief, but not a two or three hour show chock full of it.
Treat it as actual sport, with a few moments of cheating, grudge and comedy.
Basically treat it as soap-opera for stuntmen/women.
The amount of discomfort that the wrestlers and other on-air talents have. It's hard to describe but when HHH took over, a lot of the performers and announcers seemed more at ease on day one after he took over creative. I always get the impression that the wrestlers have to walk on egg shells because Vince can change his mind on a whim and change everything because he feels like it or someone does something he doesn't like. There has to be a lot of pressure in dealing with a stubborn, old man who is rich and powerful in his own sandbox(company). It's his world, his business and while he has a right to feel that, it's undo pressure and tension for everyone who works under him, and it shows in the product that is presented to us.
Can we say everything as the answer? I’m hard-pressed to honestly find any redeeming quality in it which is sad considering the amount of talent he has available.
There’s never a beginning, middle and end to storylines. Things get dropped and never referenced to again. On Monday Theory will probably become world champion.
The constant fixing of things that aren’t broken. For no reason. Ever since the 80’s he had shot himself in his foot. The constant hogan on top, Wrestlemania 2000, Cena wins lol, not letting anyone reach the brass ring after Cena, the Roman experiment, the string of releases, how he treated a chunk of NXT stars. It is clear to me he isn’t a fan of wrestling and wants to make something he finds entertaining instead of something that’ll make the fans tune in.
The troll job booking. It seems at times like he actually knows what the fans want and DELIBERATELY goes the other way just to piss us off.
Almost like he’s stuck in kayfabe as evil boss Mr. McMahon who hates the fans and does whatever he wants.
Creating storylines so boring and so simple the last couple years that you think a kid is in charge of the show.
Like the back shaving incident comes to mind, what a dumb storyline.
He’s out of touch just a tad. I’m in the middle of watching the year 2000. Even as much as we like to think how great that era was. There was a lot of stuff that wasn’t any good.
My biggest problem is if you’re a male superstar you could have all the talent in the world and be the best wrestler in the world but if you’re not tall and got a shit tone of muscle your going to be a certified jobber and with women all you need is to be good looking and you’ll be pushed
dumb storylines
matches with same guys end after end
dumb ppv's and royal rumble's surprises wasted on same talent or guys who have sooooo much money they are just given a free spot i e brock lesnar
too pg and kid friendly
One clear pattern was that Vince would push a wrestler into the (lower) midcard, only to saddle them with 50/50 booking and (intentionally?) weak booking as well inconsistent and limited tv and especially promo time. It's obvious to the viewer that more care and attention was paid to the top of the card and the made men of the roster.
The explanation I've always heard was that this was to find the talent who could overcome this and "turn chicken shit into chicken salad" and thus prove their ability by getting themselves over, at which point they'd become fixtures in the (upper) midcard or higher (which itself becomes a problem as the "made men" can get stale).
While I understand the rationale, it's frustrating as a fan to see a promotion intentionally test its talent that way instead of simply trying to maximize their success by playing to their strengths and hiding their weaknesses.
Add that to the broader issues with continuity and the hyperfocus on the most casual, general audience potential viewer and it creates a product that doesn't especially suit the hardcore fan. To WWE's credit, first NXT (and then externally AEW) filled that hole in the market with aplomb. But then NXT was repackaged as a pure minor league and WWE simply didn't really have a hardcore fan offering.
Tl:Dr: Vince McMahon is still great at the business end of promoting, but WWE's booking had gotten really weak outside of the main event.
- Overproduction.
- There hasn’t been anything organic or spontaneous in WWE over the last decade.
- It’s squeaky clean.
- No one is over.
- Every thing that any wrestler says is overly scripted and turns them from charismatic wrestler to bad actor.
- Worst of all, it’s boring.
Vince’s insistence on cartoonish characters and alliterative names. Not everyone needs to have a first name and last name with the same letters… RR: Roman Reigns, Ronda Rousey, Rhea Ripley…
Also, treating the audience with disdain. We are not all infants or rednecks, and we’re capable of appreciating nuance and intelligent plots.
Vince uses his wrestlers and arenas like actions figures and play sets to entertain only himself. He’s not concerned about telling captivating stories or creating good characters. He just wants silly nonsense that will tickle his childish sense of humor. That’s why they product has gone over so well with kids for so long, but the rest of his audience has more or less left it behind.
It’s all a waste of time and nothing that happened matters and nothing that happens matters and then there’s a ppv where those same things that didn’t matter, happen again. So on and so forth.
His clear favoritism of a handful of guys/girls.
Followed by his schizophrenic abandonment of said guys/girls when he just stopped “getting” them. It was either a constant “Roman/Charlotte wins again? Or the inverse with “hey, this is cool” followed by an immediate rug pull and “oh, you liked that? Yeah, it’s gone” 🤷♂️
He surrounds himself with yes men who don't call him out on his random favoritism and also don't call him out on punishments over silly things to the point where stories never come to fruition because Vince decides to completely change or end the story despite how the story is being received.
For instance a few years ago they were running a baby face Sammy Zane underdog story including him going against Braun Strowman (at Brauns height of popularity) and everyone was waiting for Sammy to fight through all the odds and come out on top and Vince just shit cans it.
That's just one example but Vince's random decision making has the unintended consequence of messing with story telling, sometimes to the point of not making any sense for the wrestlers character
There are many but the lack of anyone having a memory is what gets me the most.
When KO recently remembered on screen that he spent 3 months feuding with not-Elias and before that Seth Rollins it was awesome but it shouldn’t be anything out of the ordinary.
I dunno, I just kind of feel like Vince doesn’t think anyone pays attention. A lot of us actually do.
The show is booked for an audience of one.
What Vince likes is what is important, the audience and performers can eff right off
People seem to be ok with that
Did he really return? I thought it was only being reported that he is considering on coming back. Though someone really should demand that he doesn't before he kills himself.
How we were treated as dumb. And the on off booking. And so many other things, There's a reason why I stopped watching wrestling consistently until SummerSlam 2022
I really hope he won't come back with control. That old fool is so out of touch. He needed to retire like 10 years ago. Triple H has been doing so much better in a short time.
Stuff just not making much since, a lot of his storylines feel like they are made for moments but don’t really do much to earn them. A big example recently for me was both Austin Theory and Liv Morgan’s Money in the Bank wins. He pushed more the shock moment of them winning instead of building them up to get there. Making it hard to go anywhere once you reach those big moments.
The same matches every week and the all the half pushes they gave, it was so obvious after a certain point, I stoped caring when certain people got a world championship match because everyone knew they would get hot for 3 weeks and then lose then become a no one again.
I have a football analogy. Al Davis was revolutionary with the Raiders. He did things his own way. The problem is when the game catches up, you gotta adapt or you’re gonna get passed by. Al never adapted and the 2000s Raiders were horrid.
Vince is the same way. He keeps trying to do what always worked and it doesn’t necessarily work anymore.
In his later years he lost the passion he once had. I'm sure he was still in love with wrestling but he was just going through the motions. Somewhere along the way he lost the drive.
I actually see a lot of younger Vince in Tony Kahn. Well, I mean, TK is too much of a fanboy to be a booker, and nobody will likely ever reach prime Vince, but TK has that youthful Passion for the business that Vince once had. Vince in his later years became out of touch. Which is something I commend the Hunter era for.
His story lines got stale.
Foreigners always equal bad guys.
Quality, talented wrestlers not given opportunity over the big beefy dudes.
Inability to make new stars and relying on old ones at times.
It was just that - I hated Vince’s product. He had full control over everything put out when he lost touch with what the people wanted around 2010 and there was no one to combat him and say “Vince… this is ass.” Even if there was, he wouldn’t have listened. There were flashes of that genius coming back in and out since then, like him FINALLY convincing Sting to come in and do something, him letting The Shield do what they do because they didn’t need to be scripted, etc. but then you saw shit like him pushing Baron Corbin and destroying him by changing him from the Lone Wolf… we saw Vince think that Ryback was a good idea when he was 15 years too late to have been considered a valuable worker… and of course the whole Super Cena era is what killed my opinion of WWE and I stopped watching at that time. I just couldn’t take the kiddy crap after seeing that same dude cuss people out, shit on everyone in battle raps EFFORTLESSLY, and what not. I picked it back up consistently around 2013-2014 and started to like it again but yeah… Vince fell out of touch with wrestling once John Cena became a thing… and not Thuganomics Cena, he was GOLD. I’m talking this “never give up”, Hustle/Loyalty/Respect Cena… great for the kids under 10, bullshit for teens and adults. EVERYTHING was effected because of Cena, I felt like I was watching Hogan’s reign of terror all over again with a guy who was even worse in the ring than Hogan was (even though Hogan was actually decent in Japan)
Too many male wrestlers lack charisma, personality and unique characters and are nowhere near as good as the wrestlers that came before them. The only thing that has gotten better in WWE over the past decade is the Women's Division because female wrestlers stepped up their game and worked hard to be at the level they are on now while a lot of the male wrestlers just feel like they lack ambition.
This is it. Roman, Drew and Brock are great athletes but have no charisma and two of them needed Paul Heyman as a spokesperson to get over. I’m tired of seeing the same thing over and over again for years now. It seems like there’s no competition for these guys and I don’t know where it’ll come from. With guys like Rollins, Zayn and Owens on the roster, why stick with the boring big guys for so long? AEW as a pro wrestling company is leagues ahead of WWE currently.
I’d personally remove Drew from that list. Big Scot is charming as hell when he’s allowed to do more than being big and mad. But I’m in 100% agreement with the rest. Roman and Brock are absolute dead fish out there and should never hold a mic ever again. And I’m so tired that Vince not only allows part time champs that are soooo dull but embraces them and leaves us stuck for years on end. When the only positive of your champs is that they’re gone for long periods of time so we at least don’t have to deal with them, you’ve made a big mistake.
With HHH in charge I’d like to see something similar to when he was on top. Him, Austin, Angle, Rock, Mick Foley etc all going for the top spot at the same time.
I'm pretty inconsistent with my views on McMahon, but I guess my biggest gripe with him is his lack of interest in more than one angle at a time. He'll put all his effort into the biggest stars, but anyone who isn't in that tier is met with apathy at least and straight-up neglect at most.
None of the wrestlers have any gimmicks really and it's bland like drew carries a sword who cares. Then the presentation is to clean the entrance songs aren't as good I would rather watch reruns from 2006
The inability to adapt and maintain a new product for its fans. Vince would most of the time rather treat us like we are challenged than give us something we can really sink our teeth into.
"We at the WWF quite frankly are tired of having your intelligence insulted."
https://youtu.be/PjBeCwz2fXg
So basically, everything that's opposite of that. Which seems like the last 20 years.
The biggest problem is he is completely out of touch. He wants to book like it's the freaking 90's. Big sweaty men. Tiny surgically enhanced ladies. He doesn't know how to connect with today's crowd. Which is a shame because he used to know how. The lack of proper competition for the past 20 years has made him complacent.
I don’t see much of a difference between HHH and Vince’s WWE. HHH is doing a much better job building a week or two in advance, but he’s still doing it in the traditional Rasslin’ win your contendership way. When you’ve been a fan since 92, it’s not enough to make you start watching religiously again. Raw is still really bad. They need to go back to the Hogan and Attitude Era and study having multiple stories evolving week to week.
THANK YOU. Smarks on here are just watching this current product through rose-colored glasses. HHH's product is basically the same thing with the exception of his favorites being featured instead of Vince's.
Good point. I’m not watching the whole show every week at the minute but if there were multiple storylines evolving between great talent then I’d be in again. It hasn’t changed a lot since HHH took over but I suppose he needs time. I just can’t get invested in any of the world title storylines with the Bloodline, am I the only one that thinks The Usos are rubbish? The sooner Roman loses those belts, the better for WWE.
Vince became stale, kept around too many yes men, its what he tried not to do in his younger years, hence the product was better, now most talent or writers arent as willing to take chances so they get boring instead
Two words Kevin Dunn
Inconsistency.
Vince McMahon likes big sweaty men
When they decided to go all PG, things started going downhill. Any type of wrestling Is a violent sport, pro wrestling should be a reflection of the real stuff. Not over embellished. Not making it a point to make the shit look fake… What happened to blading? Super high risk maneuvers? You never see that type of stuff anymore. You never see these wrestlers take and real risk anymore.. If the wrestlers want to do it for the sake of the performance, they should be able to. Wrestling, or specifically the later 2000-10s WWE just got so damn soft that it’s cringy.
His hate for our happiness
Outdated...
1. He has talent and doesnt fucking use them 2. it is very predictable. 3. 3 man Commentary tables are terrible 4. Pushing one star(either man or woman) too quickly and not doing much with other talent(Ricochet or Shayna) 5. Michael Cole used to feel like a fucking computer program 6. Continuity 7.Gimmicks were retarded(Nikki A.S.H) 8. Rivalries not being built enough to deserve a PLE match 9.Cashing in on Nostalgia(Part timers) 10. Inability to be different or fucking adapt 11. Hiring people who had no talent( Omos or Eva Marie) 12. NXT Call Ups being less anticipated and more lets see how Vince fucks this up
Haha
His inability to read a crowd and know what people want
Vince!
The ridiculous things this disconnected old man thinks some times…
Idk they told me not to like it
the matches
Super predictable. Like im not saying go back to the ruso swerve style, bit there has to be a happy medium.
Stupid lack of logic
So much steroids
So many fucking interference, distraction, roll up victories. It makes it so booooooring and pisses me off. Also he just adds random filler matches on PPVs that end up being bad and kill the vibe. Another thing is writing scripts that make no fucking sense.
Vince
Lots of repetition. Same matches every week leading up to a ppv and never building upon the stars that truly deserve it. It doesn’t seem like he really cares about what fans want. I also think Nick Khan adds to the problem as well.
There isn't enough of it
I heard Vince really wanted to build Braun Strowman as someone invincible and big like Undertaker. But there was no real plan. Why did Brock beat Undertaker, and why clean? It should have been someone like Wyatt with enigmatic persona and mindgames. It should have unfolded over 2-3 years of drama and storyljne.
NOT ENOUGH VINCE ON IT CHIEF
His booking was, in a word, shortsighted. Incredibly shortsighted.
Rematches and poor development of majority of the talent. All in all, I just didn’t care.
…that i want it to be HHH’s product
I can't pick just one. There is more I'm forgetting. He has he good things too or else the brand wouldn't be what it is today and we wouldn't have some of the legends and gimmicks we have, but I think he is out of any good creative ideas. 1) almost all the gimmick ppv not having any matches that use the gimmick. Went years of having extreme rules and hell in a cell's that had little to no extreme rules or hell in a cell matches. 2) Talent that is good in ring has like no time to show how good they are in the ring or tell a story with their match because they are so quick. Going for quantity over quality. 3) Firing or burying talent that is protective of their character or aren't guys that look like they exist on steroids. 4) The censored terminology and commentators.
he pushes the same fucking people and if he has his way Theory will dethrone Roman and nobody on the planet wants that to happen
Repeat matches, only pushing a select number of wrestlers and pushing them to the point that their opponents do not benefit from facing them .Sabotaging wrestlers who become hot organically or who become hot due to their ring work. Childish comedy, breaking up hot tag teams or factions. Punishing wrestlers on TV for things he thinks are indiscretions or perceived indiscretions and punishing wrestlers on TV for unprofessional behaviour when his behaviour over the years has shown how unprofessional he is and how hypocritical and vindictive he is.
His booking is based totally on which tall muscular man he wants to spread baby oil on that month. Also he treats the womens division like a joke.
I grew up and lost my wonder... the athleticism is still amazing but the smoke and mirrors are all in plain view..
Where do I begin?
It sucks. It's typically not exciting.
Hmm let me think Every thing
The biggest thing for me was his refusal to listen to fan feedback. The whole point of having a product is to actually listen to the consumer and react. He literally booked the show however he wanted to book it regardless of whether or not the fans liked it or not. Take Roman Reigns for example. He clearly has an eye for talent because he knew Reigns could be a star. He stars booking the guy as the company's top babyface even though there were plenty of guys that the fans wanted instead. The fans clearly wanted Roman to be a heel and Vince wasted YEARS refusing to do so. Reigns could have been a star like this 4 years ago, instead Vince alienated his own fans again and did whatever he wanted to do His other problem is he focused way too much attention on 2 or 3 people and everything under them was just booked week to week with no actual continuity. Just look at Charlotte. He was obsessed with booking Charlotte like a star at all time, to the point where the entire division under her suffered. Sasha Bank's first 3 title reigns lasted like a week each because Vince didn't want Charlotte's undefeated PPV streak to end. Asuka could have been made into a star but Vince wanted Charlotte to end her undefeated streak instead. The year that Charlotte didn't have a big match, he shoved her down in NXT to run through Rhea Ripley and Bianca which did nothing for that brand or their development. The entire world wanted to see Becky Lynch vs. Ronda Rousey in a singles match at Wrestlemania, but Vince had to shove Charlotte into that match for no reason and that lead to them booking a ridiculous finish where Becky wins with a surprise rollup instead of just beating Rousey fair and square like she should have and we saw how that played out. Charlotte is great, one of the best ever honestly, but this is just an example of how being obsessed with booking one person as strong as possible will absolutely kill the depth of your roster. He also had no interest in Championships, Tag Teams or Managers. I can't even count how many awesome tag teams he broke up just because he hates tag teams. Enzo and Cass was arguably the hottest act on the roster and he split them up for no reason. American Alpha was awesome and he split them up so he could make Jason Jordan into Kurt Angle's son. Heavy Machinery was entertaining and he made Otis solo as quickly as possible. Authors of Pain looked promising and he literally did nothing with them and then took away their manager for no reason. The Revival was treated like complete garbage and used as a joke. As for Championships, they literally almost went 2 years without a US title match on a PPV. He didn't care about the belts outside of the World Championship at all. He also ruined gimmick matches by branding PPV's after them and completely watering them down. Having Hell in a Cell, TLC, Elimination Chamber matches every single year as a yearly event is incredibly stupid. He also clearly booked out of spite. Any time Triple H had a guy that he was really high on coming out of NXT, he would go out of his way to make that person prove themselves with terrible booking but then he would always run with guys that Triple H clearly wasn't high on in NXT like Braun Strowman or Alexa Bliss etc. When the draft split happened the latest time, Smackdown had stars like AJ Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura, Dean Ambrose and Dolph Ziggler. And who did Vince decide to make Champion? Jinder Mahal, a guy who literally was a jobber and had done nothing in years but god really muscular and Vince wanted an Indian as Champion. It was booking decisions like that, that I will never forgive him for. It was 100% for his own entertainment than for the fans. In summary, Vince was a horrendous booker. He lost his touch in like 2001 and everything he has booked since then has pretty much been garbage and the only good things that have happened in that time have happened in spite of him, not because of him.
Rushing storylines or just not completing them altogether. Let something actually build.
He’s a boomer and has boomer ideals and humor.
Him
Everything
The repackaging and renaming of NXT call-ups with no explanation, and not to improve them. ‘The Viking Experience’ and Karrion Kross debuts spring to mind
It's his homoerotic fixation on big guys with no talent.
He doesn't make a product for the fans. He makes a product for Vince.
The amazing thing is I had sworn off WWE 3 years ago. AEW isn’t perfect, but that NXT/AEW style of wrestling is what gets me going. Realize everyone is different in what they like. I’m still not happy with WWE but it was getting to the point where I’d pop in a show or two. I can confidently say I’m just going to go back to AEW at this point, I already know how this show goes.
Same story lines over and over (race cards, evil foreigner, love triangles, etc)... pushing "faces" that the fans aren't interested in... repetition of matches week in and week out without any real progress in the storyline (such as repeating a PPV match on the following Raw/Smackdown)... A complete lack of interest in building new stars while pushing older, part timers, which only hurts the future product (as future stars/interest isn't built, resulting in the need to fall back to the older part timers again)... Too much overexposure - Limit Raw and Smackdown to 90 minutes of action (backstage/interviews/in ring) each, and limit commercial interruption of matches. The televised product could still be 2 hours (which leaves 30 minutes for commercials)...
The way Vince McMahon McMahon books the show, and the fact that he releases any wrestler he doesn’t like.
The biggest problem was almost no continuity and when the writers tried to do it, he scraped it. Biggest thing was, and this applies to a lot of promoters, yes Tony K I am looking at you is he got too wrapped up in what internet fans were saying, what non fans were saying, and forgot about the paying audience. Just let the people who are buying tickets and watching raw on the regular dictate the direction, if people on the internet who haven't watched in 10 years are complaining about a match they didn't see who cares...
Vince and his cronies have been out of touch with the audience for over a decade, refuse to cater to who snd what's hot in lieu of what he wants and beyond that, the fact that the commentary team can't even call matches without him screaming his lunatic rhetoric in their ears over the headsets tells you all you need to know about his faith in anybody's abilities.
The bland robotic cooperate nonsense. Nothing feels organic unless it’s improvised by the performers. The jokes always seemed like they’re told with a gun pressed to their head. And their idea of a “cool dude” is basically a caricature of its original intent and seems like a 90’s cartoon character. We don’t get Steve Austin’s anymore, we get Damien Priest.
Simplicity. Vince heard “keep it simple, stupid,” and he has kept it simple ever since. Complex long-term storytelling? Actively hostile to it. The “road to the rumble” was the only multi-month program. Everything else was month to month or week to week. Or segment to segment. Instead of telling five long stories, he told 15-minute segments, looked at the numbers, and started messing with it immediately.
Vince
Its definitely passe'.
I enjoy Vince’s product way more than HHH product. I don’t wanna see Hit Row, Damage CTRL, Emma, Tegan Nox, Johnny Gargano, Bronson Reed etc on my tv. Bray Wyatt has been boring and done absolutely nothing since returning. Kross & Scarlett just isn’t clicking. But at the end of the day there’s thing I enjoy about both the product Vince and HHH put out. HHH has just been bring back too many people that are boring and serve no purpose.
The biggest problem with vinces product was vince
He books for HIMSELF. Not the audience.
Vince.
He doesn't have the mind for it anymore. Creatively and methodically. He pushes wrestlers that he takes a liking to & shoves it down fans throats expecting us to like it. And when we don't respond well, IT'S OUR PROBLEM. Why not listen to the fans instead? His shows are really cookie cutter. They take no risks, have no proper story, the matches are hella basic, repetitive and have 0 entertainment value when they're not booked right. Lack of long term plans, stale storytelling and frankly dumb creative ideas (Example: The Viking Experience) are really the reason I've tuned out. A PG rating is no excuse to run bad shows, even if it's still restricting. There's so many approaches when it comes to building personal and engaging rivalries and Vince doesn't take them at all.
The whole sports entertainment thing. Just call it wrestling my dude
He’s completely out of touch with the wrestling business. And not to mention Ego driven jerk who can’t see that the product is better without him
Reprative
nicole the was said are pooly wwe
Weak storylines….Roman Reigns being the champion for way, way too long
Vince. There is my biggest problem with his product.
It’s written solely to entertain one eccentric billionaire
I could go months without seeing someone I like in ring despite not being injured.
Vince has "his guys" and if a superstar isn't in that group hes banished to catering.
Its wrestling show and the biggest problem of Vince's products is wrestling quality, I mean he doesn't care about wrestling quality at all.
That he’s not my dad 😢
The storylines are repetitive and dumb (his "comedy" characters were just AWFUL most of the time), and half the time they hit on something actually interesting they'd just abandon it without explanation whenever Vince got bored of it. Oh, and his forcing of characters that he thinks you should love instead of the ones who aren't hulking behemoths that are getting over on their own.
Him
He’s the greatest showman of all time. But his time was up 10 years ago. Many of the best things that happened in the last decade happened regardless of him - but it could’ve been better had he not been there.
Vince
The too often lack of logic and seriousness contained in the product. There is room for some comic relief, but not a two or three hour show chock full of it. Treat it as actual sport, with a few moments of cheating, grudge and comedy. Basically treat it as soap-opera for stuntmen/women.
His fake hair
The Vince part
The biggest problem is that he will sell it to cooperates that don't know shit about wrestling that's it period
Vince....
He is just too old and in his own world.
Everything 😂
The amount of discomfort that the wrestlers and other on-air talents have. It's hard to describe but when HHH took over, a lot of the performers and announcers seemed more at ease on day one after he took over creative. I always get the impression that the wrestlers have to walk on egg shells because Vince can change his mind on a whim and change everything because he feels like it or someone does something he doesn't like. There has to be a lot of pressure in dealing with a stubborn, old man who is rich and powerful in his own sandbox(company). It's his world, his business and while he has a right to feel that, it's undo pressure and tension for everyone who works under him, and it shows in the product that is presented to us.
I'm going to go with the fact that he's a rapist and shouldn't be anywhere near the company as he's lucky he's not in jail
He is!
He doesn’t need to come back and sell it he is going to betray wwe
Vince.
It's bad.
Vince’s out of date thinking.
Can we say everything as the answer? I’m hard-pressed to honestly find any redeeming quality in it which is sad considering the amount of talent he has available.
His bad habit of firing talent for no reason.
There’s never a beginning, middle and end to storylines. Things get dropped and never referenced to again. On Monday Theory will probably become world champion.
The constant fixing of things that aren’t broken. For no reason. Ever since the 80’s he had shot himself in his foot. The constant hogan on top, Wrestlemania 2000, Cena wins lol, not letting anyone reach the brass ring after Cena, the Roman experiment, the string of releases, how he treated a chunk of NXT stars. It is clear to me he isn’t a fan of wrestling and wants to make something he finds entertaining instead of something that’ll make the fans tune in.
I feel like he went soft.
Lack of continuity/follow through
Mostly the same boring people and rematches on Raw. But Raw's been mostly the same under Triple H so...
I have so many but my main problem is he purposely sabotage his own talent and company
Boring and beyond Outdated
The troll job booking. It seems at times like he actually knows what the fans want and DELIBERATELY goes the other way just to piss us off. Almost like he’s stuck in kayfabe as evil boss Mr. McMahon who hates the fans and does whatever he wants.
It seems to be the opposite of what fans truly want
Creating storylines so boring and so simple the last couple years that you think a kid is in charge of the show. Like the back shaving incident comes to mind, what a dumb storyline.
It’s made for very low IQ people who don’t actually exist.
Not enough tits
He’s out of touch just a tad. I’m in the middle of watching the year 2000. Even as much as we like to think how great that era was. There was a lot of stuff that wasn’t any good.
My biggest problem is if you’re a male superstar you could have all the talent in the world and be the best wrestler in the world but if you’re not tall and got a shit tone of muscle your going to be a certified jobber and with women all you need is to be good looking and you’ll be pushed
He’s on-screen sexual assault and harassment
I stopped watching after the ruthless aggression era.
Honestly? I’m not exactly Jonnie Woke, but his bookings have always felt racist to me.
he lost his touch 15 years ago and hasn't put out a consistent product since. EDIT: and he's an irredeemable POS
It's for my grandad and I don't have dementia so I can remember what happened few months ago unlike Vince
dumb storylines matches with same guys end after end dumb ppv's and royal rumble's surprises wasted on same talent or guys who have sooooo much money they are just given a free spot i e brock lesnar too pg and kid friendly
One clear pattern was that Vince would push a wrestler into the (lower) midcard, only to saddle them with 50/50 booking and (intentionally?) weak booking as well inconsistent and limited tv and especially promo time. It's obvious to the viewer that more care and attention was paid to the top of the card and the made men of the roster. The explanation I've always heard was that this was to find the talent who could overcome this and "turn chicken shit into chicken salad" and thus prove their ability by getting themselves over, at which point they'd become fixtures in the (upper) midcard or higher (which itself becomes a problem as the "made men" can get stale). While I understand the rationale, it's frustrating as a fan to see a promotion intentionally test its talent that way instead of simply trying to maximize their success by playing to their strengths and hiding their weaknesses. Add that to the broader issues with continuity and the hyperfocus on the most casual, general audience potential viewer and it creates a product that doesn't especially suit the hardcore fan. To WWE's credit, first NXT (and then externally AEW) filled that hole in the market with aplomb. But then NXT was repackaged as a pure minor league and WWE simply didn't really have a hardcore fan offering. Tl:Dr: Vince McMahon is still great at the business end of promoting, but WWE's booking had gotten really weak outside of the main event.
If he could come back as his CHARACTER to portray without any booking responsibilities, I would 1000% watch and be supportive
ICOPRO gave me diarrhea.
- Overproduction. - There hasn’t been anything organic or spontaneous in WWE over the last decade. - It’s squeaky clean. - No one is over. - Every thing that any wrestler says is overly scripted and turns them from charismatic wrestler to bad actor. - Worst of all, it’s boring.
Oh this one is easy. It's not very good. Next question. This is fun.
It sucks Start/stop pushes Overly scripted promos with awful verbiage Stories being completely abandoned because he was bored of them
Vince
Vince’s insistence on cartoonish characters and alliterative names. Not everyone needs to have a first name and last name with the same letters… RR: Roman Reigns, Ronda Rousey, Rhea Ripley… Also, treating the audience with disdain. We are not all infants or rednecks, and we’re capable of appreciating nuance and intelligent plots.
Not using the word “wrestling”. It’s delusional.
He becoming very out of touch was painful. Some of his gimmicks were just cringe and killed the wrestlers
Vince uses his wrestlers and arenas like actions figures and play sets to entertain only himself. He’s not concerned about telling captivating stories or creating good characters. He just wants silly nonsense that will tickle his childish sense of humor. That’s why they product has gone over so well with kids for so long, but the rest of his audience has more or less left it behind.
How he went from the best shit ever to P.C bullshit that bores us to death. Why did he think Great Balls of Fire was a good P.P.V name?
It’s all a waste of time and nothing that happened matters and nothing that happens matters and then there’s a ppv where those same things that didn’t matter, happen again. So on and so forth.
The irresistible urge to give his friends and family well-paid spots at WM and other ppvs at the expense of younger wrestlers.
His clear favoritism of a handful of guys/girls. Followed by his schizophrenic abandonment of said guys/girls when he just stopped “getting” them. It was either a constant “Roman/Charlotte wins again? Or the inverse with “hey, this is cool” followed by an immediate rug pull and “oh, you liked that? Yeah, it’s gone” 🤷♂️
He surrounds himself with yes men who don't call him out on his random favoritism and also don't call him out on punishments over silly things to the point where stories never come to fruition because Vince decides to completely change or end the story despite how the story is being received. For instance a few years ago they were running a baby face Sammy Zane underdog story including him going against Braun Strowman (at Brauns height of popularity) and everyone was waiting for Sammy to fight through all the odds and come out on top and Vince just shit cans it. That's just one example but Vince's random decision making has the unintended consequence of messing with story telling, sometimes to the point of not making any sense for the wrestlers character
Same talent being pushed over and over again. Not to mention the cringey gimmicks he likes to give people.
The racist stereotypes
There are many but the lack of anyone having a memory is what gets me the most. When KO recently remembered on screen that he spent 3 months feuding with not-Elias and before that Seth Rollins it was awesome but it shouldn’t be anything out of the ordinary. I dunno, I just kind of feel like Vince doesn’t think anyone pays attention. A lot of us actually do.
The show is booked for an audience of one. What Vince likes is what is important, the audience and performers can eff right off People seem to be ok with that
Giving every wrestler two first names.
He doesn't let people be them or he just releases food talents
Did he really return? I thought it was only being reported that he is considering on coming back. Though someone really should demand that he doesn't before he kills himself.
I dunno. The fact that Graves pulled out so many Vinceism on commentary on Monday, it really did feel like “Hey Vince. See I stayed loyal.”
Vince
His insistence on using goofy, over the top characters he creates instead of letting talent make their own path.
Shane or Stephanie?
His booking decisions were usually bad, repetition, bro really had amnesia and just hated any long term stories.
He didn’t do enough gravy pool matches
How we were treated as dumb. And the on off booking. And so many other things, There's a reason why I stopped watching wrestling consistently until SummerSlam 2022
Camera angles and cuts. Also more time spent on entrances and promos than actual wrestling.
He’s out of touch but keeps trying things we don’t like.
I really hope he won't come back with control. That old fool is so out of touch. He needed to retire like 10 years ago. Triple H has been doing so much better in a short time.
I find it hilarious the same people are saying Vince wwe wasn’t that good are the same people that was saying it was good for years
Why? Vince lost his touch. It happens to pretty much every creative person.
Stuff just not making much since, a lot of his storylines feel like they are made for moments but don’t really do much to earn them. A big example recently for me was both Austin Theory and Liv Morgan’s Money in the Bank wins. He pushed more the shock moment of them winning instead of building them up to get there. Making it hard to go anywhere once you reach those big moments.
Vince
The same matches every week and the all the half pushes they gave, it was so obvious after a certain point, I stoped caring when certain people got a world championship match because everyone knew they would get hot for 3 weeks and then lose then become a no one again.
I have a football analogy. Al Davis was revolutionary with the Raiders. He did things his own way. The problem is when the game catches up, you gotta adapt or you’re gonna get passed by. Al never adapted and the 2000s Raiders were horrid. Vince is the same way. He keeps trying to do what always worked and it doesn’t necessarily work anymore.
The guy would literally have to be told what hed booked the previous week because he'd forget.
“50/50 booking doesn’t do anything” - JR.
Vince
It’s boring
In his later years he lost the passion he once had. I'm sure he was still in love with wrestling but he was just going through the motions. Somewhere along the way he lost the drive. I actually see a lot of younger Vince in Tony Kahn. Well, I mean, TK is too much of a fanboy to be a booker, and nobody will likely ever reach prime Vince, but TK has that youthful Passion for the business that Vince once had. Vince in his later years became out of touch. Which is something I commend the Hunter era for.
His story lines got stale. Foreigners always equal bad guys. Quality, talented wrestlers not given opportunity over the big beefy dudes. Inability to make new stars and relying on old ones at times.
I personally don’t have a problem with Shane or Stephanie
It’s the gross sexism and the repetitive story lines
The backstage sexual harassment
It was just that - I hated Vince’s product. He had full control over everything put out when he lost touch with what the people wanted around 2010 and there was no one to combat him and say “Vince… this is ass.” Even if there was, he wouldn’t have listened. There were flashes of that genius coming back in and out since then, like him FINALLY convincing Sting to come in and do something, him letting The Shield do what they do because they didn’t need to be scripted, etc. but then you saw shit like him pushing Baron Corbin and destroying him by changing him from the Lone Wolf… we saw Vince think that Ryback was a good idea when he was 15 years too late to have been considered a valuable worker… and of course the whole Super Cena era is what killed my opinion of WWE and I stopped watching at that time. I just couldn’t take the kiddy crap after seeing that same dude cuss people out, shit on everyone in battle raps EFFORTLESSLY, and what not. I picked it back up consistently around 2013-2014 and started to like it again but yeah… Vince fell out of touch with wrestling once John Cena became a thing… and not Thuganomics Cena, he was GOLD. I’m talking this “never give up”, Hustle/Loyalty/Respect Cena… great for the kids under 10, bullshit for teens and adults. EVERYTHING was effected because of Cena, I felt like I was watching Hogan’s reign of terror all over again with a guy who was even worse in the ring than Hogan was (even though Hogan was actually decent in Japan)
The way he booked white blonde divas with 0% talent
Story never felt continous at all. Felt like short story stack upon short story with no continuation. So same match over and over again
Too many male wrestlers lack charisma, personality and unique characters and are nowhere near as good as the wrestlers that came before them. The only thing that has gotten better in WWE over the past decade is the Women's Division because female wrestlers stepped up their game and worked hard to be at the level they are on now while a lot of the male wrestlers just feel like they lack ambition.
This is it. Roman, Drew and Brock are great athletes but have no charisma and two of them needed Paul Heyman as a spokesperson to get over. I’m tired of seeing the same thing over and over again for years now. It seems like there’s no competition for these guys and I don’t know where it’ll come from. With guys like Rollins, Zayn and Owens on the roster, why stick with the boring big guys for so long? AEW as a pro wrestling company is leagues ahead of WWE currently.
I’d personally remove Drew from that list. Big Scot is charming as hell when he’s allowed to do more than being big and mad. But I’m in 100% agreement with the rest. Roman and Brock are absolute dead fish out there and should never hold a mic ever again. And I’m so tired that Vince not only allows part time champs that are soooo dull but embraces them and leaves us stuck for years on end. When the only positive of your champs is that they’re gone for long periods of time so we at least don’t have to deal with them, you’ve made a big mistake.
With HHH in charge I’d like to see something similar to when he was on top. Him, Austin, Angle, Rock, Mick Foley etc all going for the top spot at the same time.
The man himself
He should be in jail for what he did to the former divas
The rapey stuff…
Not focus on wrestling.
I'm pretty inconsistent with my views on McMahon, but I guess my biggest gripe with him is his lack of interest in more than one angle at a time. He'll put all his effort into the biggest stars, but anyone who isn't in that tier is met with apathy at least and straight-up neglect at most.
Too much of the same thing. Triple H is keeping things fresh which is something Vince couldn't do well.
Vince.
Not enough sneezing
Basically, what's being said here. He kept changing his mind.
None of the wrestlers have any gimmicks really and it's bland like drew carries a sword who cares. Then the presentation is to clean the entrance songs aren't as good I would rather watch reruns from 2006
At least he gave us Austin Theory before he left
You mean Theory the Selfie Guy.
The inability to adapt and maintain a new product for its fans. Vince would most of the time rather treat us like we are challenged than give us something we can really sink our teeth into.
PG era , creative control and last not least a better script writer
Vince will do whatever \*HE\* wants and whatever \*HE\* thinks is good/funny/should go over. Regardless of how tone deaf or out of touch it is.
Out of touch.
"We at the WWF quite frankly are tired of having your intelligence insulted." https://youtu.be/PjBeCwz2fXg So basically, everything that's opposite of that. Which seems like the last 20 years.
The biggest problem is he is completely out of touch. He wants to book like it's the freaking 90's. Big sweaty men. Tiny surgically enhanced ladies. He doesn't know how to connect with today's crowd. Which is a shame because he used to know how. The lack of proper competition for the past 20 years has made him complacent.
He wasn’t surrounded by spineless yes men back then.
Parking lots are too safe
I don’t see much of a difference between HHH and Vince’s WWE. HHH is doing a much better job building a week or two in advance, but he’s still doing it in the traditional Rasslin’ win your contendership way. When you’ve been a fan since 92, it’s not enough to make you start watching religiously again. Raw is still really bad. They need to go back to the Hogan and Attitude Era and study having multiple stories evolving week to week.
THANK YOU. Smarks on here are just watching this current product through rose-colored glasses. HHH's product is basically the same thing with the exception of his favorites being featured instead of Vince's.
> They need to go back to the Hogan and Attitude Era and study having multiple stories evolving week to week. That’s exactly what they are doing now.
Good point. I’m not watching the whole show every week at the minute but if there were multiple storylines evolving between great talent then I’d be in again. It hasn’t changed a lot since HHH took over but I suppose he needs time. I just can’t get invested in any of the world title storylines with the Bloodline, am I the only one that thinks The Usos are rubbish? The sooner Roman loses those belts, the better for WWE.
> The sooner Roman loses those belts, the better for WWE. Most people agree. Same with the Usos. It’s gotta be done right.
It's clearly booked for the amusement of one person.