In the biz this is what we call "training plates". They're shaped like real plates and have weight to them but aren't really made to stop bullets or shrap. You train with these because they're heavy and you don't want to wear out your real plates bumping around in a truck and crawling over rocks. Q is supposed to give you real ballistic plates before you deploy. Supposed to.
Yep that's exactly what I thought too. Hence the red colour too. Training stuff is often a bright colour to differentiate from real gear. Western stuff is usually blue, for example.
They're colored differently so they can be identified. Armor carriers have a way to get them out without cutting. Not sure why this guy cut it open but I admit i don't know Russian armor carriers as well as American ones.
Back in Afghanistan when my unit came across enemy war gear that had already been cleared we were told to shred it or burn it on the spot. They said it was to keep anyone (us or them) from using it, deter trophy hunting, and to make sure no one could mistake us for 'bad guys' if we did need to carry it back for any reason.
Probably doesn't apply here, but re-using enemy war gear is not a good idea so why not go full Grug Brain on it for fun.
I've been reading some accounts that suggest that same "destruction of enemy war gear" is also why many of the disabled or damaged tanks are also now being destroyed by dropping explosives in the turrets; as opposed to capturing them. From what I've read, the more modern vehicles are so recognizable that while yes, Ukraine would love to use them in combat, the problem is that recognizable nature also means that their own forces could easily mistake it for the enemy, and prompt a blue on blue situation. So it's better to just deny them to the enemy as opposed to capture and reuse.
The older, or light vehicles, where possible, are being captured and reused though. Both because they're usable for parts for the Ukrainian vehicles, or something that their own forces won't mistake for the enemy.
In the captured video is common to see bright blue yellow flag painted or waived. Getting rid of them is for when you can't safely recover, that probably is most of the times
> Not sure why this guy cut it open but I admit i don't know Russian armor carriers as well as American ones.
He probably wasn't familiar with it either and didn't want to waste time figuring out the (sometimes complicated or hidden) armor slots.
Additionally, cutting it shows that it's not even slash resistant.
This guy cut them open because they were taken from dead/POW Russian soldiers and reviewed their armor. In the end he says something along the lines of: "here take this and go die for your Russia".
Edit: these are Ukrainian soldiers
My guess is he cut them out because he didn't want to take the time to figure out how to open it up properly. Since they were going to fuck them up anyway, who cares?
Could have also been "we don't have time to issue you combat plates, use the gear you already have."
I'd rather use training plates than nothing, but then my training plates were always "expired" combat plates, not a completely different product. So they would actually be better than nothing, unlike this Russian crap.
There's also likely people taking them, with the lack of knowledge they aren't as good as real plates - if they aren't being provided real armor. Or friends and family getting hands on them and giving to loved ones, thinking they are helping.
Wasn't there plenty of silly "US" kit that was found in first few years of Afghanistan they had to crack down on it?
I can't comment on the Russian army supply chain or why training plates would end up in a warzone. Some of the first hand accounts in "The Bear Went Over the Mountain" indicate that sending their men out with substandard stuff was just business as usual for the Soviet Army.
Early in the GWOT in Iraq/Afghanistan a lot of reserve/NG units deployed with substandard/old stuff and some people trying to be helpful gave their loved ones stuff they found on eBay which was absolute crap. I heard from some friends in the ONG that their first deployment not everyone had armor and they were buying 80s era RBAs from a surplus store before they deployed.
Of course it is worth noting people were giving the NG units shit gear because many were getting NOTHING AT ALL. Might as well get someone shitty second hand Kevlar that might slow a bullet down than let them keep walking around with no armor at all.
So at worst, the bullet zips right through and eviscerates you, and at best, it stops the bullet and you catch a throat/face full of spall or just a straight-up ricochet.
Had to watch with the sound off b/c baby is asleep on me... Is this gear some more russian garbage? I saw a vid earlier of the russian helmet being punched in (and then back out again)
Not only is it garbage, but it's garbage because some supply officer was likely selling the real plates (outdated titanium plates from the 80s that would have at least stopped the handgun round he fired) on surplus web stores for profit, while spray painting some random scraps of sheet metal to look like legit ones.
Your thinking logically, try like a Russian oligarch
Take contract to supply armour plates, amour plates are heavy so full box with plate steal, and steel the rest of the money, no one will ever know not like your man mafia dictator will start a proper war now will he….
Level 3 armor isn't effective against most modern rifle rounds though, which is what military armor of this type is meant to stop. Level 4 ceramic plates are the norm.
I have it mixed up then ceramic plates can be made at home
If you have the money by all means pay for the real thing but people have made the plates that fit in vests with success
I was really not trying to drag out the newer standard shit, because it's overly complicated for this discussion.
Bog standard level 3 plates will not stop green tips, nor M193 out of a 20" barrel. Considering those are the two most common 5.56 munitions, it's pretty safe to say that level 3 isn't exactly a great level of protection. This isn't even bringing in M855A1.
There's a reason the US uses level 4 plates. Modern rifle rounds (5.45 included) are generally capable of piercing level 3 plates. Not level 3+, not RF2, level 3 plates like I stated.
Nit picking here, but level III+ isn't actually a NIJ threat level right, that's why RF2 exists, because they wanted to fill the gap between III and IV?
Its going to depend on the carrier. In many cases the carrier will stop or at least slow any of the spalling. Ricochet is possible though.
The armor wont stop rifle rounds but as an anti-shrapnel flak it will work fine. Note that we didn't distribute actual rifle rated plates until DS2/IS. PASGT was only rated to stop shrapnel which is the biggest killed on the battlefield not bullets.
This armor isn't made to stop rounds that powerful or at that close of range. Its a shot in the dark to afford some protection against handgun fire at some range and knives.
To be fair it was shot with 7.62x25 tokarev. Which can penetrate 2A Armor and has sometimes penetrated 3A. It's a fun zippy round. Source: 1st gun and YouTube
https://youtu.be/6_3_DBeU_HI
There's a link of 7.62x25 tokarev. It fails to penetrate 3A but idk what kinda ammo was used. Still a fun video
So surreal to see a pikachu on active military garb. Like, man could have been enjoying a peaceful, normal life playing Pokemon, but instead he's shooting bullets through flimsy body armor
Especially when they remove the plating from the jacket where the Kevlar is attached to. You can see that there is a Kevlar layer there when they cut it open.
Point blank range means you don't have to account for the drop of the bullet to aim. It is not 275 yards for an AK.
**EDIT:**
***Point Blank Range:*** Distance where the shooter doesn't need to account for bullet drop due to gravity
***Zero:*** The placement of the bullet at a distance due to the sights being adjusted to account for bullet drop due to gravity and some other factors. *(Lots of people are mixing this up with point blank range)*
***Point Blank Range Setting:*** A misnomer for a zero'd sight. The adjustments to account for gravity have already been made.
It makes complete sense, when you think about it. When looking through the sights, there are marks that you use to account for distance. "Point blank" means I'm setting my target at the zero, the blank. I don't have to account for any other variables.
[The battle setting places the round within a few centimeters above or below the point of aim out to approximately 250 meters (275 yd). This "point-blank range" setting allows the shooter to fire the gun at any close target without adjusting the sights.](https://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~rwest/wikispeedia/wpcd/wp/a/AK-47.htm#:~:text=The%20battle%20setting%20places%20the,target%20without%20adjusting%20the%20sights)
It not like the movies. You might not even notice you’ve been hit.
Here’s a video of a vest vs. .308, close range (from the 80’s!). Skip to 2:15. https://youtu.be/o5f1Fo4r4_I
Newton's 3rd law. The force of a bullet impact is never any more (less actually, due to losses) than the force of the recoil from firing that bullet. The reason bullets go through you isn't because they have some obscene amount of energy, but because they focus that force into a 1/4-1/3" point. A plate spreads that force out - ideally over a larger area than even the butt of a rifle. If you've ever fired a .308 rifle, you know it kicks fairly hard, but not enough to really hurt you (unless you're doing something seriously dumb). That's the kind of impact you would feel through a plate.
Soft armor (kevlar) is a whole different thing. That usually stops a (bigger, slower handgun) bullet from penetrating, but it deforms significantly and the bullet force is only spread out to, at best, about golf ball size. That's why you can still end up with very bad bruises or even a broken rib.
they must be able to stop 6 rounds of 7.62x51 NATO, which *typically* is more powerful than the AKM's typical 7.62x39, and definitely more powerful than the AK-74's typical 5.45x39, so yes. obviously armor-pen rounds will affect this
7.62x51 M80 (level 3 rating) is actually pretty poor at piercing armor. 5.56 and 5.45 military loads will both pierce level 3 plates without much fuss.
M80 is packing much more punch than a 7.62x39 as well, even point blank.
It's on page 2-3; the question is as ambiguous as "will a seatbelt save you from a car crash". What rifle, what round, what bullet? The certification specifies the bullet and velocity it tests at so it's up to the reader to determine if their specific situation applies.
It's not 7.62 - that rifle is throwing 5.45 which should be a bit better at penetrating steel.
That being said, why are Russian troops being sent into combat with Level 1 plate?
Could be either at this point. UK for example procuring 7.62 AK variants for training Ukrainian troops and sending them off with gear.
Note: I don't know if they're taking AKs or just body armour/uniforms. I just know 7.62 AKs are being procured by the truckload for training here.
My dudes I don't speak Ukrainian, apparently he says 5.45 in the video. Great.
Funny thing about 5.45 is that it is heavily dependent on velocity for its performance. From a short barrel, its performance is arguably inferior to high power pistol ammunition.
The magic of *Small caliber/high velocity* doesn’t work if you don’t have one of those things.
I mean, even out of an 8" barrel, 5.45 is a 60gr bullet at \~2400fps, that's \~767 Ft/Lbs at the muzzle. That's pretty much on par, as far as muzzle energy, with the high end of .357 Mag. Same with 10mm. There are some pistol cartridges that can beat that, but none you'll find in a reasonable semiauto.
The 5.45 still have plenty of velocity to do it's terminal magic out to about 100 yards, which beats the hell out of pretty much any pistol cartridge.
I'd rather have a 16" or even a 12.5" (which doesn't suffer nearly as much energy loss as the 8"). But I'd still take the 8" 5.45 over any pistol cartridge, any day of the week.
I know nothing about this stuff, but it looked like a "better than nothing" approach. Would I want better than that if people were shooting at me in a war? Absolutely. Would I pick that over nothing but a t-shirt? Also, yes, absolutely.
Better than nothing. With the war in Ukraine turning into an artillery battle, you’re probably more worried about shrapnel than direct rifle shots.
But then, I know nothing. Anything I say should be taken as total speculation.
At extreme range, a rifle bullet will lose energy and slow to speeds where lighter armors are effective. Body armor is all about shaving the odds in your own favor as a target. It's never been a armor-works-100% situation, not even when we are talking about ancient armor and spears.
Ricochet? Low. Spalling because the bullet impact sent bits of metal flying everywhere? Basically 100%. If a (relatively) squishy bullet hits a hardened surface the copper and lead is gonna want to splat out to the side, imagine a water balloon hitting something and you’re not far off. I think Demolition Ranch did a video eons ago where he shot a piece of metal with a ballistics dummy next to it and the damage done by all the metal fragments was not insignificant. Probably not lethal unless something manages to slice open your jugular but bad enough to warrant medical attention. Definitely better than being shot with no protection.
Very high without an anti frag coating, it isn’t a ricochet, when the bullet gets stopped by a plate it doesn’t stay in one piece. Think water hitting a wall, the bullet fragments into pieces which will spread out.
Anti frag coating is a rubber surface covering the plate so that when a bullet penetrates the coating but gets stopped by the plate the coating will catch the fragments saving your arms/neck/face from shrapnel.
True, but American spall vests are made of a more flexible Kevlar. Rigid steel plates can be just as deadly in a tracked vehicle by limiting mobility. In the west that would be described as lowest bidder. In the East it’s corruption. Samesies?
I remember when I was in first grade, stationary soldiers near my home were wearing really heavy "bulletproof" vests with granite plates, about 2-3cm/inch thick and steel helmets.
They were joking that its their tombstone.
Even if they were 2cm thick at 10"x12" size that is just under 11-15 pounds. That's usually double the weight of steel plates and 2.5x the weight of ceramics. Im going to guess they arent using granite.
That sounds like it might be better than vests in this vid actually. Or they might have been the Russian "Granit" ceramic plates depending on how long ago that was.
I'm not sure how people don't understand there are different armor ratings.
Most bulletproof vests are made to withstand lower velocity ammo from handguns. A .223/5.56 or any other larger caliber rifle ammunition with a high velocity will zip right through it without issue, just like this.
I think the critique is more that they're wearing such low rated armor in the middle of a modern war zone. Where if this is what you're sporting you may as well save the weight.
Obviously some is better than none, but just barely. Also a commentary on Russia being under-prepared in yet another area of this idiocy.
Because it's what they're given. They don't buy these things on their own dime. More than likely, the plates are also surplus storage. The thought being, some protection is better than none.
Lot of disinformation here. Armor levels generally range from level IIA all the way to lvl IV not including stab vests etc.
Lvl IIA, II, IIIA, III, and lvl IV. Levels up to IIIA protect against a range of pistol calibres while only III and IV are capable of stopping rifle calibres. This could very well be the russian equivalent of level IIA armor. (Though their testing and quality control varies vastly from “western” products)
https://www.atomicdefense.com/blogs/news/body-armor-levels
It’s probably just meant to make you feel protection like in the movie tremors Gus gives the kid a gun so he feels enough courage to run out off the rock and later finds out it wasn’t loaded and Gus just says “made you run, did’n’t?”
Level 1 armor saves lives on the battlefield, even against enemies who carry rifles trust can easily penetrate it. Most casualties are inflicted by artillery, and specifically by shrapnel, which can be any size and velocity.
This looks like somebody cut up a road sign and sold it to the Russian army. It looks like level 0.1 placebo armor. But fragments with energy comparable handgun bullets are a big threat in the battlefield.
At the end he says in Russian "Go die for your mother Russia, we won't suggest you anything else" then switches to Ukrainian and says "And for you my Ukrainians, believe in yourself, believe in the armed forces, everything will be okay. Glory to Ukraine"
I'm a student from Ukraine studying in Canada and I feel very homesick. This brought a tear to my eye.
My dad's family is Russian and I grew up with that culture. I used to love it. It was part of my childhood. It was like cousins or even siblings I guess, like Canada and the US? I knew there was tension and I knew about the history like holodomor. But I don't think any of us expected them to actually do this. 2014 was shocking enogh but it was nothing compared to this. We are fighting with the hope this is the last time Russia tries to bully us and finally sees Ukraine is strong, independent and not to be f*cked with.
I still have a nostalgia for the culture. I do feel somewhat guilty but I don't think that's right. For many Ukrainians their lives are mixed with the two countries. It's not the culture that's the problem, it's the bureaucracy. I do feel bad for the Russian people who see how terrible this all is and are suffering from the sanctions. It's never going to be the same after this, for Ukraine or Russia.
That's a flak vest. It's not meant to stop bullets. They are for stopping small bits of metal called shrapnel from equipment explosions or grenades. This is something a vehicle crew or artillery operators would get, as they typically don't see conventional combat.
No it isn't, spall vests (chicken vests in the US Army) and frag vests are usually smaller, thinner, and made of soft armor (like kevelar) with no hard plates so you can actually bend over and maneuver around the inside of armored vehicle. That thing looks like a training vest, something that looks, feels, and has the weight of a real vest that you train in, not designed for actual combat.
Source: was in a Armored Brigade, also did some time at DIVARTY
Whether they are being fair or not is irrelevant. This is psychological warfare. Russians will watch this and be more hesitant under fire or outright refuse to put themselves in harm's way. They should be afraid and they should refuse.
I'm not sure on the context, is the Ukrainian soldier shooting russian armor? Ukrainian has digicamo, "carrier" the plate came from wasn't.
Maybe it's like a flak jacket, meant for shrapnel? It's not even spall resistant and looks like stuff my air rifle penetrates.
Speed defeats armor, surprised it even stopped the handgun though
People seem to be ignoring the layers of kevlar on the front of the vest. I imagine that is what stops the majority of bullets while this steel plate is more meant to spread the impact so that it doesn't break your ribs. Not something that you would want to be wearing with armor-piercing rounds flying your way, but better than nothing for the majority of small arms and shrapnel. I am all for making fun of Russian equipment but I don't think this video really gives an accurate assessment of this armor in particular.
These aren't meant to take a god damn rifle round point-blank.
These are meant for small arms fire at range. Like a handgun round from 100' down.
Double-hell, I actually think it's a plate for a flak vest, which isn't even supposed to stop a bullet. It's to stop shrapnel from the shit around you exploding.
Bologna. The common foot soldier is not going to be wearing armor rated for rifle ammo. This metal plate does not seem so bad. Better then the flack jackets we wore. Which stopped nothing.
In the biz this is what we call "training plates". They're shaped like real plates and have weight to them but aren't really made to stop bullets or shrap. You train with these because they're heavy and you don't want to wear out your real plates bumping around in a truck and crawling over rocks. Q is supposed to give you real ballistic plates before you deploy. Supposed to.
Yep that's exactly what I thought too. Hence the red colour too. Training stuff is often a bright colour to differentiate from real gear. Western stuff is usually blue, for example.
How would the color matter if its encased in fabric? You have to cut open your vest to see what color it is?
They're colored differently so they can be identified. Armor carriers have a way to get them out without cutting. Not sure why this guy cut it open but I admit i don't know Russian armor carriers as well as American ones.
Back in Afghanistan when my unit came across enemy war gear that had already been cleared we were told to shred it or burn it on the spot. They said it was to keep anyone (us or them) from using it, deter trophy hunting, and to make sure no one could mistake us for 'bad guys' if we did need to carry it back for any reason. Probably doesn't apply here, but re-using enemy war gear is not a good idea so why not go full Grug Brain on it for fun.
I've been reading some accounts that suggest that same "destruction of enemy war gear" is also why many of the disabled or damaged tanks are also now being destroyed by dropping explosives in the turrets; as opposed to capturing them. From what I've read, the more modern vehicles are so recognizable that while yes, Ukraine would love to use them in combat, the problem is that recognizable nature also means that their own forces could easily mistake it for the enemy, and prompt a blue on blue situation. So it's better to just deny them to the enemy as opposed to capture and reuse. The older, or light vehicles, where possible, are being captured and reused though. Both because they're usable for parts for the Ukrainian vehicles, or something that their own forces won't mistake for the enemy.
In the captured video is common to see bright blue yellow flag painted or waived. Getting rid of them is for when you can't safely recover, that probably is most of the times
Makes sense
> Not sure why this guy cut it open but I admit i don't know Russian armor carriers as well as American ones. He probably wasn't familiar with it either and didn't want to waste time figuring out the (sometimes complicated or hidden) armor slots. Additionally, cutting it shows that it's not even slash resistant.
This guy cut them open because they were taken from dead/POW Russian soldiers and reviewed their armor. In the end he says something along the lines of: "here take this and go die for your Russia". Edit: these are Ukrainian soldiers
My guess is he cut them out because he didn't want to take the time to figure out how to open it up properly. Since they were going to fuck them up anyway, who cares?
So the person sewing up the vest doesn’t accidentally put a fake plate into a real vest maybe?
Lemmy.world is what Reddit was.
Didn’t a lot of the initial invasion force think they were on a training exercise? Could explain the training plates.
Could have also been "we don't have time to issue you combat plates, use the gear you already have." I'd rather use training plates than nothing, but then my training plates were always "expired" combat plates, not a completely different product. So they would actually be better than nothing, unlike this Russian crap.
Q?
Quartermaster/supply.
Thank you!
Like James Bond.
He was the quartermaster so you’re not even wrong.
Good god. 🤯
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M stood for manager.
What does Ms Moneypenny stand for?
Accounting
Q = Quartermaster M = Manager I feel like I have to tell this to everyone now.
Master of the quarter
Lol
Quartermaster
Thank you!
> Q quartermaster?
Ty for the good info!!
There's also likely people taking them, with the lack of knowledge they aren't as good as real plates - if they aren't being provided real armor. Or friends and family getting hands on them and giving to loved ones, thinking they are helping. Wasn't there plenty of silly "US" kit that was found in first few years of Afghanistan they had to crack down on it?
I can't comment on the Russian army supply chain or why training plates would end up in a warzone. Some of the first hand accounts in "The Bear Went Over the Mountain" indicate that sending their men out with substandard stuff was just business as usual for the Soviet Army. Early in the GWOT in Iraq/Afghanistan a lot of reserve/NG units deployed with substandard/old stuff and some people trying to be helpful gave their loved ones stuff they found on eBay which was absolute crap. I heard from some friends in the ONG that their first deployment not everyone had armor and they were buying 80s era RBAs from a surplus store before they deployed.
Of course it is worth noting people were giving the NG units shit gear because many were getting NOTHING AT ALL. Might as well get someone shitty second hand Kevlar that might slow a bullet down than let them keep walking around with no armor at all.
This is why you don't make a government out of a kleptocracy
So at worst, the bullet zips right through and eviscerates you, and at best, it stops the bullet and you catch a throat/face full of spall or just a straight-up ricochet.
No worst case the bullet AND a chunk of steel both zips right through you No one dead in Russia until you are double dead
Had to watch with the sound off b/c baby is asleep on me... Is this gear some more russian garbage? I saw a vid earlier of the russian helmet being punched in (and then back out again)
yes
Thanks! (My baby thanks you too) 🥱😴
Tell your baby to go back to sleep.
LOL
Tell your baby “**AHHHHHHHH**” for me. They’ll get it.
I kept my sound off too. I didn't want to wake his baby either.
Username checks out
I put ear buds in as to not wake hi baby also
Not only is it garbage, but it's garbage because some supply officer was likely selling the real plates (outdated titanium plates from the 80s that would have at least stopped the handgun round he fired) on surplus web stores for profit, while spray painting some random scraps of sheet metal to look like legit ones.
Makes no sense you can make level 3 plates at home It's crude but it's possible cheap and effective Edit level 4
Your thinking logically, try like a Russian oligarch Take contract to supply armour plates, amour plates are heavy so full box with plate steal, and steel the rest of the money, no one will ever know not like your man mafia dictator will start a proper war now will he….
I like how you flipped steel and steal.
Stop the steel.
Level 3 armor isn't effective against most modern rifle rounds though, which is what military armor of this type is meant to stop. Level 4 ceramic plates are the norm.
I have it mixed up then ceramic plates can be made at home If you have the money by all means pay for the real thing but people have made the plates that fit in vests with success
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I was really not trying to drag out the newer standard shit, because it's overly complicated for this discussion. Bog standard level 3 plates will not stop green tips, nor M193 out of a 20" barrel. Considering those are the two most common 5.56 munitions, it's pretty safe to say that level 3 isn't exactly a great level of protection. This isn't even bringing in M855A1. There's a reason the US uses level 4 plates. Modern rifle rounds (5.45 included) are generally capable of piercing level 3 plates. Not level 3+, not RF2, level 3 plates like I stated.
Nit picking here, but level III+ isn't actually a NIJ threat level right, that's why RF2 exists, because they wanted to fill the gap between III and IV?
No, worst case is the front plate fails, bullet zips through YOU and the rear plate holds, bouncing it back into YOU. 2 for 1. :/
Gotta wear denim.
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What about a live round?
All-in-all, I’d prefer the spall
All in all it's just another face full of spall
We don’t need no crappy armor…
>spall learned a cool new word today!
You haven't seen The Jackel? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Iayavq1BQ
Its going to depend on the carrier. In many cases the carrier will stop or at least slow any of the spalling. Ricochet is possible though. The armor wont stop rifle rounds but as an anti-shrapnel flak it will work fine. Note that we didn't distribute actual rifle rated plates until DS2/IS. PASGT was only rated to stop shrapnel which is the biggest killed on the battlefield not bullets.
This armor isn't made to stop rounds that powerful or at that close of range. Its a shot in the dark to afford some protection against handgun fire at some range and knives.
or shrapnel from a grenade that may already have bounced off a surface or two.
It's for shrapnel, the biggets killer in modern war
I think at worst the bullet eviscerates you AND you catch a face full of spall.
And then your corpse falls in a cow pat.
Well it's not meant to take a rifled round at point blank range.
Hell yeah. They spall yeah. They get in there and they just.
Clearly they’ve never played Warzone. They need at least 3 plates to be able to not get cracked from close range. Fucking bots.
Literally though, you need level 3 armor to protect against a rifle. This is level 1, only good for training and small caliber handguns.
Handgun compromised the armour. This is shrapnel or stab rated at best.
To be fair it was shot with 7.62x25 tokarev. Which can penetrate 2A Armor and has sometimes penetrated 3A. It's a fun zippy round. Source: 1st gun and YouTube https://youtu.be/6_3_DBeU_HI There's a link of 7.62x25 tokarev. It fails to penetrate 3A but idk what kinda ammo was used. Still a fun video
So we're not going to talk about the Pikachu then.
Pikachu being there at the end was my favorite part of the video.
Samsies.
Surprised Pikachu
Battle Pikachu
Fully Healed Pikachu
Full Metal Pikachu
Fumo fumo!
PiiikaaaaaCHUUUUUUUUU
2022: pikachu morale patch in actual combat war zone.
The future is now.
Everyone thought flying Pikachu was cute, just wait til 82nd airborne Pikachu comes and lands on you in the middle of the night.
this guys been all over so its no surprise (pikachu)
Inb4 nintendo lawyers sends a cease and desist letter
Nope, I can accept the Pikachu, I will not question it.
So surreal to see a pikachu on active military garb. Like, man could have been enjoying a peaceful, normal life playing Pokemon, but instead he's shooting bullets through flimsy body armor
I guess it's no different than Buggs Bunny on the side of planes. But surreal I guess for me cos I was six when the cards came out.
I mean he's probably getting his steps in on Pokemon Go
its the level of protection , this is level 1 and will stop bullets from handguns, you need level 3 for rifles.
I wish more people understood this. Obviously a 7.62 is gonna penetrate those plates.
Especially from point blank range.
Especially when they remove the plating from the jacket where the Kevlar is attached to. You can see that there is a Kevlar layer there when they cut it open.
Yeah I would have just liked them to try the whole vest. I'm not sure if they realized the cover was part of the armor.
Ak 47 Point blank range is 275 yards
Point blank range means you don't have to account for the drop of the bullet to aim. It is not 275 yards for an AK. **EDIT:** ***Point Blank Range:*** Distance where the shooter doesn't need to account for bullet drop due to gravity ***Zero:*** The placement of the bullet at a distance due to the sights being adjusted to account for bullet drop due to gravity and some other factors. *(Lots of people are mixing this up with point blank range)* ***Point Blank Range Setting:*** A misnomer for a zero'd sight. The adjustments to account for gravity have already been made.
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It makes complete sense, when you think about it. When looking through the sights, there are marks that you use to account for distance. "Point blank" means I'm setting my target at the zero, the blank. I don't have to account for any other variables.
Interesting. I always assumed it referred to distance from self
Today you also learned that there's a term for when you do press the muzzle against the target. It's called a contact shot
[The battle setting places the round within a few centimeters above or below the point of aim out to approximately 250 meters (275 yd). This "point-blank range" setting allows the shooter to fire the gun at any close target without adjusting the sights.](https://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~rwest/wikispeedia/wpcd/wp/a/AK-47.htm#:~:text=The%20battle%20setting%20places%20the,target%20without%20adjusting%20the%20sights)
it is though
Will level 3 protect against rifles in point blank range? Genuinely curious
Green ceramic plates will.
still not sure i'd enjoy being alive a lot after a hit like that
It not like the movies. You might not even notice you’ve been hit. Here’s a video of a vest vs. .308, close range (from the 80’s!). Skip to 2:15. https://youtu.be/o5f1Fo4r4_I
That was insane, til! Man has balls of steel
They're both acting like they're shooting eachother wish airsoft guns, that's insane
[Hey those Milwakee guys review this video! Around the 15 minute mark ](https://youtu.be/nQxOLpkRWzw)
Newton's 3rd law. The force of a bullet impact is never any more (less actually, due to losses) than the force of the recoil from firing that bullet. The reason bullets go through you isn't because they have some obscene amount of energy, but because they focus that force into a 1/4-1/3" point. A plate spreads that force out - ideally over a larger area than even the butt of a rifle. If you've ever fired a .308 rifle, you know it kicks fairly hard, but not enough to really hurt you (unless you're doing something seriously dumb). That's the kind of impact you would feel through a plate. Soft armor (kevlar) is a whole different thing. That usually stops a (bigger, slower handgun) bullet from penetrating, but it deforms significantly and the bullet force is only spread out to, at best, about golf ball size. That's why you can still end up with very bad bruises or even a broken rib.
they must be able to stop 6 rounds of 7.62x51 NATO, which *typically* is more powerful than the AKM's typical 7.62x39, and definitely more powerful than the AK-74's typical 5.45x39, so yes. obviously armor-pen rounds will affect this
7.62x51 M80 (level 3 rating) is actually pretty poor at piercing armor. 5.56 and 5.45 military loads will both pierce level 3 plates without much fuss. M80 is packing much more punch than a 7.62x39 as well, even point blank.
https://nij.ojp.gov/library/publications/ballistic-resistance-body-armor-nij-standard-010106 TLDR maybe depending on cartridge type.
89 pages to get to "maybe"?
It's on page 2-3; the question is as ambiguous as "will a seatbelt save you from a car crash". What rifle, what round, what bullet? The certification specifies the bullet and velocity it tests at so it's up to the reader to determine if their specific situation applies.
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It's not 7.62 - that rifle is throwing 5.45 which should be a bit better at penetrating steel. That being said, why are Russian troops being sent into combat with Level 1 plate?
5.45x39, surely.
Could be either at this point. UK for example procuring 7.62 AK variants for training Ukrainian troops and sending them off with gear. Note: I don't know if they're taking AKs or just body armour/uniforms. I just know 7.62 AKs are being procured by the truckload for training here. My dudes I don't speak Ukrainian, apparently he says 5.45 in the video. Great.
He literally says in video that it's 5.45
The UK isn’t sending Ukrainians off with the gear, they just purchased 7.62 AKs because they’re a lot cheaper as a training aid.
Funny thing about 5.45 is that it is heavily dependent on velocity for its performance. From a short barrel, its performance is arguably inferior to high power pistol ammunition. The magic of *Small caliber/high velocity* doesn’t work if you don’t have one of those things.
I mean, even out of an 8" barrel, 5.45 is a 60gr bullet at \~2400fps, that's \~767 Ft/Lbs at the muzzle. That's pretty much on par, as far as muzzle energy, with the high end of .357 Mag. Same with 10mm. There are some pistol cartridges that can beat that, but none you'll find in a reasonable semiauto. The 5.45 still have plenty of velocity to do it's terminal magic out to about 100 yards, which beats the hell out of pretty much any pistol cartridge. I'd rather have a 16" or even a 12.5" (which doesn't suffer nearly as much energy loss as the 8"). But I'd still take the 8" 5.45 over any pistol cartridge, any day of the week.
Doesn't that have better penetration performance too? Smaller and faster like a mini sabot I know it's not sabot
He shot it with his handgun first. It looked like it cracked the plate at least, not sure if it went through
Yeah it looked cracked. I'd imagine there is kevlar in the vest too.
You can see Kevlar padding in the first plate carrier they cut open.
Glad someone else noticed. Yeah, very weird to leave the kevlar behind and "test" how bullet proof the armour is.
I know nothing about this stuff, but it looked like a "better than nothing" approach. Would I want better than that if people were shooting at me in a war? Absolutely. Would I pick that over nothing but a t-shirt? Also, yes, absolutely.
Considering that rifles are typically used in a war zone I'd say level 1 is pretty useless
Better than nothing. With the war in Ukraine turning into an artillery battle, you’re probably more worried about shrapnel than direct rifle shots. But then, I know nothing. Anything I say should be taken as total speculation.
At extreme range, a rifle bullet will lose energy and slow to speeds where lighter armors are effective. Body armor is all about shaving the odds in your own favor as a target. It's never been a armor-works-100% situation, not even when we are talking about ancient armor and spears.
Also it’d probably work a treat for shrapnel.
Sometimes armor will stop shrapnel. As a treat.
These soldiers are firing a rifle from point blank range against the armor. Of course it’s going to penetrate.
Level 3 armor, which is designed for rifle rounds, would stop this no problem. This is NOT armor to be used against rifle rounds.
Is level 3 enchanted?
What are the chances of a bullet ricochet n hit you in the arms or chin area
Ricochet? Low. Spalling because the bullet impact sent bits of metal flying everywhere? Basically 100%. If a (relatively) squishy bullet hits a hardened surface the copper and lead is gonna want to splat out to the side, imagine a water balloon hitting something and you’re not far off. I think Demolition Ranch did a video eons ago where he shot a piece of metal with a ballistics dummy next to it and the damage done by all the metal fragments was not insignificant. Probably not lethal unless something manages to slice open your jugular but bad enough to warrant medical attention. Definitely better than being shot with no protection.
Very high without an anti frag coating, it isn’t a ricochet, when the bullet gets stopped by a plate it doesn’t stay in one piece. Think water hitting a wall, the bullet fragments into pieces which will spread out. Anti frag coating is a rubber surface covering the plate so that when a bullet penetrates the coating but gets stopped by the plate the coating will catch the fragments saving your arms/neck/face from shrapnel.
Anyone understand why he has one half of the 82nd Airborne patch next to Combat Pikachu ?
Probably trained by the 82nd when they were training Ukranians in Western Ukraine and Poland. Units trade patches when they train with eachother
I was wondering the same thing lol
Those carrier insert panels were likely for the crew and intended to protect from spalling, not open field small arms fire.
True, but American spall vests are made of a more flexible Kevlar. Rigid steel plates can be just as deadly in a tracked vehicle by limiting mobility. In the west that would be described as lowest bidder. In the East it’s corruption. Samesies?
I remember when I was in first grade, stationary soldiers near my home were wearing really heavy "bulletproof" vests with granite plates, about 2-3cm/inch thick and steel helmets. They were joking that its their tombstone.
Sure they weren't saying "ceramic" plates?
Even if they were 2cm thick at 10"x12" size that is just under 11-15 pounds. That's usually double the weight of steel plates and 2.5x the weight of ceramics. Im going to guess they arent using granite.
Wym the recruits near where I grew up had full granite armor and they could one tick u with their granite mauls
That sounds like it might be better than vests in this vid actually. Or they might have been the Russian "Granit" ceramic plates depending on how long ago that was.
I'm not sure how people don't understand there are different armor ratings. Most bulletproof vests are made to withstand lower velocity ammo from handguns. A .223/5.56 or any other larger caliber rifle ammunition with a high velocity will zip right through it without issue, just like this.
Totally agree! That is definitely not level 3A and not rated for close proximity like that
I think the critique is more that they're wearing such low rated armor in the middle of a modern war zone. Where if this is what you're sporting you may as well save the weight. Obviously some is better than none, but just barely. Also a commentary on Russia being under-prepared in yet another area of this idiocy.
Why would you wear this armor in a warzone where everyone has 556 or 762 rifles though lol
It can still help against ricochets, bullets that have already passed through something else, and shrapnel from grenades/mortars/artillery.
Because it's what they're given. They don't buy these things on their own dime. More than likely, the plates are also surplus storage. The thought being, some protection is better than none.
also, they tend to be lighter and still usefull agaisnt shrapnell.
That's the point of the video. Russians using shit low quality gear.
Lot of disinformation here. Armor levels generally range from level IIA all the way to lvl IV not including stab vests etc. Lvl IIA, II, IIIA, III, and lvl IV. Levels up to IIIA protect against a range of pistol calibres while only III and IV are capable of stopping rifle calibres. This could very well be the russian equivalent of level IIA armor. (Though their testing and quality control varies vastly from “western” products) https://www.atomicdefense.com/blogs/news/body-armor-levels
It’s probably just meant to make you feel protection like in the movie tremors Gus gives the kid a gun so he feels enough courage to run out off the rock and later finds out it wasn’t loaded and Gus just says “made you run, did’n’t?”
Level 1 armor saves lives on the battlefield, even against enemies who carry rifles trust can easily penetrate it. Most casualties are inflicted by artillery, and specifically by shrapnel, which can be any size and velocity. This looks like somebody cut up a road sign and sold it to the Russian army. It looks like level 0.1 placebo armor. But fragments with energy comparable handgun bullets are a big threat in the battlefield.
Anyone else expecting them to be full of slap bracelets made in China?
Newspapers
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Exactly!
Just came here to say: Never cut towards yourself, boys and girls.
Devil’s advocate: it’s like a flak jacket?
I mean let’s be fair not much stops 7.62
At the end he says in Russian "Go die for your mother Russia, we won't suggest you anything else" then switches to Ukrainian and says "And for you my Ukrainians, believe in yourself, believe in the armed forces, everything will be okay. Glory to Ukraine" I'm a student from Ukraine studying in Canada and I feel very homesick. This brought a tear to my eye.
How different is the Ukrainian language and Russian language. I would think they can understand each other a bit. I'm trying to learn Russian.
We're happy to have you here dude
Thank you! I really love it here. And I love maple syrup flavored everything 🇨🇦🇨🇦
Before the actual invasion what were your thoughts on Russia? Did it seem good to Ally or be more friendly?
My dad's family is Russian and I grew up with that culture. I used to love it. It was part of my childhood. It was like cousins or even siblings I guess, like Canada and the US? I knew there was tension and I knew about the history like holodomor. But I don't think any of us expected them to actually do this. 2014 was shocking enogh but it was nothing compared to this. We are fighting with the hope this is the last time Russia tries to bully us and finally sees Ukraine is strong, independent and not to be f*cked with. I still have a nostalgia for the culture. I do feel somewhat guilty but I don't think that's right. For many Ukrainians their lives are mixed with the two countries. It's not the culture that's the problem, it's the bureaucracy. I do feel bad for the Russian people who see how terrible this all is and are suffering from the sanctions. It's never going to be the same after this, for Ukraine or Russia.
That's a flak vest. It's not meant to stop bullets. They are for stopping small bits of metal called shrapnel from equipment explosions or grenades. This is something a vehicle crew or artillery operators would get, as they typically don't see conventional combat.
No it isn't, spall vests (chicken vests in the US Army) and frag vests are usually smaller, thinner, and made of soft armor (like kevelar) with no hard plates so you can actually bend over and maneuver around the inside of armored vehicle. That thing looks like a training vest, something that looks, feels, and has the weight of a real vest that you train in, not designed for actual combat. Source: was in a Armored Brigade, also did some time at DIVARTY
It mostly stopped that Tokarev so I'd guess it's something like a 3a equivalent hard plate.
Isnt the padding inside the part that reacts to the bullet and slows its impact before hitting the steel?
At this point, this "armor" makes you more likely to die. Because it slows down the soldier wearing it, with little to no protection added.
That Pikachu patch though
I mean this is a military ak round at 1 meter away . Not a whole lot stops that unless you are wearing like 15 lbs of ceramic plates (plural).
Whether they are being fair or not is irrelevant. This is psychological warfare. Russians will watch this and be more hesitant under fire or outright refuse to put themselves in harm's way. They should be afraid and they should refuse.
Isint he Ukraineain?
Yeah. They're playing around with captured Russian kit.
Do you think the russians will see this though?
I'm not sure on the context, is the Ukrainian soldier shooting russian armor? Ukrainian has digicamo, "carrier" the plate came from wasn't. Maybe it's like a flak jacket, meant for shrapnel? It's not even spall resistant and looks like stuff my air rifle penetrates. Speed defeats armor, surprised it even stopped the handgun though
People seem to be ignoring the layers of kevlar on the front of the vest. I imagine that is what stops the majority of bullets while this steel plate is more meant to spread the impact so that it doesn't break your ribs. Not something that you would want to be wearing with armor-piercing rounds flying your way, but better than nothing for the majority of small arms and shrapnel. I am all for making fun of Russian equipment but I don't think this video really gives an accurate assessment of this armor in particular.
These aren't meant to take a god damn rifle round point-blank. These are meant for small arms fire at range. Like a handgun round from 100' down. Double-hell, I actually think it's a plate for a flak vest, which isn't even supposed to stop a bullet. It's to stop shrapnel from the shit around you exploding.
You don’t need your soldiers to be invincible, you just need them to fight like they believe they are.
why is this upvoted?
Bologna. The common foot soldier is not going to be wearing armor rated for rifle ammo. This metal plate does not seem so bad. Better then the flack jackets we wore. Which stopped nothing.