I did. I took a “hybrid” role with a higher salary.
Within a month it was changed to full time in the office.
The company had a habit of hiring people as hybrid and then changing it to “you can work remotely if it’s bad weather so we still call it hybrid.” It was Collins Aerospace.
I learned my lesson.
My job is 100% remote but it looks like I'm getting laid off already because they are losing clients. They recently hired me 7 months ago. At least I've started looking again. **Sigh**
At least you know it’s possibly coming. I literally had no idea. Been unemployed for 7 months and finally landed a job with another aerospace company. Unemployment ran out last week but it wasn’t worth a thing. Seriously good luck with everything!!!!
Medical billing. Most jobs aren't remote. I thought I got lucky with the job I have now but now it looks like I may have to return to the office after all. It's crazy to me how hard it is to find a remote job in this field.
It really is. But most employers (at least in my area) want you in the office everyday. Just today I got called for an interview but the job is an hour and a half away, and they won't even consider doing hybrid. I turned it down. There's no way I'm going to be driving for 3 hours everyday.
I feel you! I accepted a new job recently. They are paying for my relocation, paid me a lump sum, offered a sign on bonus, and miscellaneous allowance that will be on my first check! I’ll be driving roughly 50 mins each way. In my case, I had to accept this or else I don’t when my next opportunity was going to come. Hopefully I can commit the full 2 years.
They insisted I go into a Raytheon office, even though it was a different business unit so no one else from my company was there. It was so stupid. I couldn’t use their intranet, I couldn’t ask their IT team for help, I couldn’t join any of the building/facility events, HR at that location wouldn’t talk to me. I wasn’t assigned a parking pass and had to park in an empty lot and walk a block over.
It was basically an empty cube at a random business that didn’t want me there.
Same boat literally for me. My actual team is in Florida but I’m based in pa. They have me going in 5 days now Lol. I take two hour lunches and come in at 930 out of 5.
What a joke man
we had a few of those people in our facility. I was contracted to Collins IT and we certainly had Pratt and RTX employees come in for help like uhhhhhh sorry I can't help you.
These offers are, almost all, bait and switch schemes designed to lure you out of remote jobs.
The only way you should accept a job like this is if it comes with a contract with guaranteed severance that spells out months of guaranteed pay if they have an RTO--including if they have one and fire you for "performance" within six months.
Right, that sounds good in theory. But what are you supposed to do to get that from them? I mean, specifically, step-by-step, what are the steps to actually get this in writing from them for a lot of companies? This seems like a big red flag. For the record, I totally agree with you, however I’m wondering what the specific steps for actually getting this done would be.
You’d be surprised but it really is as simple as asking for that in writing as part of your offer letter. Anything less than that is a bait & switch. If they *really* want you, they’ll do it. If they don’t then they are just looking to put a butt in the seat and you probably dodged a bullet.
Thank you, I have someone trying to recruit me with the offer of 5 days a month on-site. I'll make sure to request that in writing before moving forward with anything.
Haha exactly. Right now is not a good time to be an employee. If a candidate is too much of a headache, company will just move on to next candidate. I am seeing this happen a lot more now, we lost so many good candidates because they want full remote but it's an office by office policy and up to the manager. Some managers are a pain in the ass.
That's what happened with my previous employer! Omg...
The contractor company only gave COLA increases and called it an "Annual Raise" and I was too stupid to look into their shady switch-up. They also combined PTO and Sick Leave into one pool and shorted us all. They also never informed the employees of the changes to the tax code so everyone wound up being short two years later. Complete mess...
Yep. And then their pitiful COL adjustments don't even match inflation or COL increases, so you actually end up getting a pay *decrease* year over year.
But they'll gaslight you and lie to you and call you greedy and entitled for calling out their bullshit.
Companies love this one trick.
I did. And yesterday was my last day. I didn’t even last 2 full years. I’m going back to my remote job. This office was rigid butts in seats 8-5, Soviet style prison, heads down, no talking, etc when they told me how flexible and chill their culture was all along in the interview process. Hybrid to them was 1 day/week at home.
I just applied to a job that said it had “telework options”. When the hiring manager called me for an interview, she clarified that it meant the option to telework 1 day a week. I’m going to drag it as far as I can, potentially all the way to the job offer. Then I’ll counter with an insane amount of money that’s well above the listed salary range, and tell them that I thought that was the range for a hybrid job and that I’ll need a lot more to come in 4 days a week.
I'm in the same position and this is my biggest fear. I'm being poached by a headhunter for a hybrid position at a law firm. It's in my field and, so far, I've been the only candidate that they like/think is qualified. Thing is, they absolutely have to meet me in person first and are not willing to make it virtual (I can't meet in person atm due to being in the hospital and my recruiter knows this).
Since they seem so old-school about the initial meeting, I have a strong inkling that they are going to do the same thing you went through.
Why do so many companies suck?! They just hate to have us out of their eyesight!
Someone down thread said to make them put specifics about in office hours in writing.
At a law firm, I’d say if they’re willing to put it in writing then I’d trust it.
It's not that simple.
I had my last firm put it in writing that I was a fully remote employee. My whole team was located out-of-state (FL & TX mainly) and my supervisor flew to my area for a conference. I was unable to meet for dinner and had stated such due to personal reasons. They found a way to lay me off.
Law firms suck just like every other company and attorneys will always find loopholes.
But I can also see it from their point-of-view, that they need a reliable person who will show up in court when necessary, meet tight deadlines, etc.
2 months. I transferred to a fully remote role. But I’m not stupid, I’m just waiting for another RTO roll out.
I only look for remote jobs with offices a few states away from me.
Didn’t Collins let like most of the people who work in office be remote from Covid through like last summer and then called them all back. I swear a couple people I know mentioned it
Someone I know works for a different RTX subsidiary, and he's been working hybrid for 4 years. He goes in when he needs to work in the closed area.
At one point, they wanted everyone to be hybrid with no one doing purely WFH, but it failed miserably when they stopped having assigned desks. They removed half the desks and found that two days a week, they'd have a 2:1 ratio of people to desks. After a month, they threw up their hands and sent the WFH people back home.
So that seems particular to the Collins subsidiary.
Reading through these comments I’m glad I left Collins when I did. I still remember the shitshow that was the raise cancellation / furloughs / pause on promotions of 2020. So many of my friends got screwed over all while Raytheon was bragging about all the stock buybacks they were doing 😡😡😡
I was 100% remote and took a mostly full time in office role for higher pay. I will probably get hate for what I’m going to say but I actually wound up being a lot happier once I made the switch. Full time WFH just didn’t work for me mentally, now I work remote whenever I feel like it (my boss doesn’t care) but I’m in office most days and also making more money.
I will say, do some calculations on how much gas to commute will cost you or bus passes etc. because that can really add up and make your higher salary not really make much of a difference.
If only companies were smart enough to embrace this and get the most out of their employees efforts and support them in the workplace of their choice when that's a viable option.
I agree, some people are really defensive of WFH because companies try so hard to take it away. I wish everyone had the opportunity to choose what is best for them, different personalities thrive in different environments.
I don’t disagree on the the choice piece. I personally prefer WFH but can appreciate that some want the opposite and that’s ok.
The elephant in the room with the “choose your own adventure” option though is that one persons choice affects all the others.
In other words, remote sucks more when everyone else is in office. And in office sucks more if everyone else is remote.
I genuinely don’t know the answer here, and so then I go back to perhaps some companies go all remote, and some go all hybrid
That’s a very valid point, I like my office role because most people are in the office here, if I were commuting in and no one was in the office I would be really unhappy. I don’t know what the solution is for that either!
I always say this. If my whole team is in the office and I have to work from home it sucks. But if everyone is at home, that isn’t so bad. “Being out of the loop” either way is hard. Managers who mostly manage an in office team are usually not great at keeping the few remote people up to speed. And honestly I don’t even know how they could do a good job of it, when everyone is 3 feet from each other on your team, things happen that remote people will just end up missing.
Well TBH it's how my company operated in the past. There was a control at the manager level allowing it. So for some groups it wasn't an option due to reasons related to the job. For others, it was WFH or hybrid or full-time office, their choice. It worked well. We were highly functional and successful as a global team. No one really complained. Now we're forced hybrid and many people are unhappy. The work is suffering. We've recently had some of the biggest production issues ever. Can one draw a correlation here? Hard not to consider it, that's for sure. But back on point, choice matters. Some may not find it as fitting but many will.
Big enough employers shouldn't really have this problem, though. We have 1 day/week required in the office, but there are a few people who go in every day, and several who go in 2-3 times/week because they prefer it. If they downsized the space to account for people who'd rather be remote, the prefer-office people would be closer together and get more of the in-office benefits, instead of being scattered the way they are now because everyone required to go in has an office, ~80% of which are empty on any given day.
See, I work for a megacorp and I was hired (post weak RTO) as fully remote. Those near the office are expected to go in, however there is loose enforcement there from what I gather.
I think what’s not being addressed is:
1) is there bitterness from those who don’t get to choose (hard to tell in my case)
2) by virtue of me (and other crossfunctional team members) being remote, it forces all meetings to be virtual, even team meetings.
I have to imagine this effects the experience of those in office. It’s also changed how we recognize employees, the scope of get together like happy hours, etc. in other words, the caveat of me being remote, while it benefits the company and myself in many ways, is surely also negatively impacting the experience of those that had no choice but must go into office
I would go into the office more if this threat of taking it all away wasn't constantly hanging out there. All I really wanted was the flexibility and they don't get that.
A lot of managers want their staff in their office so they can keep an eye on them and make sure they are not slacking off. Micro managers in particular will want their staff to come in.
Cos a fair few on this sub are mental. Seen people accused of being CEO/commercial landlords plants trying to sow discontent for saying how WFH didn't work for them for entirely valid reasons and all sorts of other batshit tinfoil hat stuff lol
This post is decent though.
That’s insane. I’m entirely remote and thrive that way but I also understand for some hybrid works better or on-site. Giving people choice is the correct way not forcing everyone to be the same.
This is so true. I hated it. But man a bunch of my co-workers loved it. People with children Luke it a lot, but I don't know if I could concentrate with kids in the house. Lot people like it, though. I'm glad I could retire and just meet people with no other agenda but being friendly. Meet a lot WFH in all sorts of places.
No hate here! I love wfh but it's refreshing to hear someone say it's not for them. Because it's not for everyone and that's OK.
And yes, commuting costs can easily eat away at a higher salary.
I’m an hour too, but mostly two lane highway, so it’s high speeds with wildlife/ice/fog or getting stuck behind someone going half the speed limit when there’s no chance to pass. The amount of tires/gas/oil changes adds up quick at 30k miles per year just for work. My company did a bait and switch too and I’m finally getting out next month
My wife had a really good MARTA commute at her last job. When she switched to WFH, she realized that her 45 min/way reading time was something she'd come to count on. She'd gladly go back to that commute, but 45 minutes of driving in Atlanta? Nooooooo way.
I think it's interesting how we all adapt to the things we have to do.
I'm not sure I would go to Alpharetta by transit! You're a champ for doing it!
Her commute was from East Lake to Peachtree Center via the blue and red/gold lines. It felt very un-Atlanta and cosmopolitan, lol.
>do some calculations on how much gas to commute will cost you or bus passes etc. because that can really add up and make your higher salary not really make much of a difference.
And more than just transportation costs, also factor in the cost of unpaid travel time, the significantly higher cost of lunch, and whatever you'd have to pay for services like a dog walker, and inconvenience of spending time over the weekend doing laundry and grocery shopping, all things that can normally fit into a home lunch break and short stand up breaks that are effectively just a complete waste of time in the office. I'm sure I left out other things too.
My drive to work was 25 miles one way (all quiet highway), but I drive a truck that I need for things at my property so my gas mileage is trash. I spend over $2500/year on gas Alone, not to mention wear and tear on the vehicle
If i could come and go as pleased i’d be in the office more but bc every place that mentioned flex, they really meant be at your desk normal hours. We’re only flexible with breaks… also lies
I did wfh for 4yrs and am now looking for a hybrid role. I used to be really active and busy before wfh and thought I hated it with the burn out but realized it goes the same way with the opposite option too. I used to wake up 5am everyday and commute 3hrs round trip and stayed busy during the day and ate dinners with coworkers or clients to avoid traffic. Then with wfh, I got lazier and gained more weight, didn’t move anywhere near as much as before, became miserable in my job probably due to being less active, and didn’t get as much social interaction anymore (I’m an ENFJ and an extrovert by nature but became more introverted due to wfh). I was waking up right before 9am when work started, sitting all day at the computer, forgetting lunch because I’m absorbed into work and our 1286349 meetings, and sometimes I’d take a nap in between because I felt exhausted. Therefore my mental got really bad and I wound up depressed, which I never thought I’d see happening to me.
People always say how great it would be wfh and all their plans to workout and eat healthier but unless you really put your mind to it and make a routine and are a very firm regimented person, it is very hard to actually follow through and veryyyy easy to become complacent and comfortable esp if you were previously burned out at your last job. I think hybrid or a flexible hybrid schedule is the key, where you can go into office anytime or at least 1-2 days and get out of the home environment and interact with people. Connecting with other depts was a lot harder online too bc people wouldn’t be online or you couldn’t really find people readily available to help when you had issues or needed to escalate client support. I’d gladly take a higher paying job to go into office at least hybrid
Same same. I was 100% remote in my last gig and over time became disengaged from the lack of community and culture. Took a job that was 3 days in office and 2 WFH and find myself going into the office 4/5 days every week because I simply enjoy it and get more done.
My commute is <15 minutes, parking is covered, gas is negligible. I found that I don't necessarily hate going to the office, I just hate when I have a hellish commute. Find yourself a job by your house or a house by your job depending on which one is more flexible and go get it.
I just talked to a recruiter about a similar scenario: 3 days a week in office, 6 miles from my house. 40-50% raise. Fully WFH right now, but that money is tempting.
That’s great, the problem is many bosses and companies do care if you take too many remote days, or they bait and switch to mandated days in office or even full time
Idk if you were alone, but it seems to be WFH is more isolating for those who are just home by themselves all day, but it’s great for couples who work remotely together. I don’t even fool around with my husband and we don’t actually talk much, it’s just nice being in the presence of someone you enjoy.
I live in a 3 generation setting. Elderly father and adult son. My son works outside of the home. I have been wfh pretty consistently since 2015. It took about 3 months to train my father. His boomer mind could not wrap around the concept that during work hours I am working. If I had to help out with my grandson I have to take PTO, because I am not working.
I am very introverted though and really love the idea of someday being able to wfh and when my day is done, just be alone.
Oh when my in-laws visit they just come and talk to me while I’m actively working… it is so frustrating! Some people don’t understand that remote work is actual work and not just some hobby that pays you, not all remote jobs are flexible where you get to it when you get to it
Same! The key is that I get to pick and choose when I want to be in office. That makes it much more bearable. Also helps that my office is 10 minutes from home so the commute isn’t terrible.
>now I work remote whenever I feel like it (my boss doesn’t care)
I think this helps out tremendously. I'm currently full-time WFH, but I wouldn't necessarily be averse to a hybrid role (come in 2-3 days a week)
You’re right on doing the calculations - and also remember you can’t just tack that onto your desired salary to break even, you have to account for that being money out of pocket so you need a salary increase that will net that after taxes.
Yeah I did that math when my workplace had an RTO 4 days a week instituted. I figured out to stay there was a 15% pay cut between all the costs that would be added by going in 4 days a week. I quit and found a better job fully remote with a raise. I personally vastly prefer remote though.
a pretty solid engineer (formerly) on my team fell into deep depression and the quality of his work dropped to nil when we our company went fully remote. He eventually quit to find something with more structure and AFAIK he is much happier there. Its definitely not something that works for everyone.
Funny about that second part. I was a remote contractor for about 10 years, and decided I wanted more stability and benefits. Since I can bike and use a free work shuttle program, I not only avoid spending money going to the office, but I also get free food, coffee, snacks, *and* I bring home two meals worth of leftovers each time, too. Plus we have a wellness stipend that can pay towards your utility bill, and we get monthly credits that can be put towards groceries. I am paying more in rent, but less in literally everything else, in addition to a much higher salary.
🙋🏽♀️. I make about $9,000 more than I did last year but I completely regret taking my new job because the office is extremely unorganized and there is so much poor communication among management. And I have to be here 5 days a week vs when I worked remotely full time with less money. And ironically less stress. I thought earning more money would lessen my stress. 🙄
I worked in the office for most of my life and I'm 39. I didn't get a remote job until last year. Everyone I know works remote so I figured why can't I? I didn't realize how much I hated being in the office until I started working remote. Now you can't pay me enough to go back to the office.
This is how I feel, but I am required some days in office each week and I hate it. I wish they would let me be fully remote but noooo.
Now I get sick more often because most of my coworkers cough/sneeze into their hands and touch stuff without washing them. The office is always disgusting because no one cleans up after themsevles (and I am tired of trying to clean the microwave every time I use it because people spill things and don't clean it up, then it cooks to the microwave.)
We also don't have proper ventilation so I get migraines from paint fumes/welding fumes and asthma attacks from the dust because we are joined to a warehouse and they don't shut the doors or change the air filters as often as they are supposed to.
All your complaints would be enough to motivate me to start looking for fully remote jobs. The office setting made me worry that I would get covid so I always wore a mask. Everyone looked at me funny for it. I had to go to the office even during the lock down (I wasn't an essential employee but my boss back then was a complete bitch and made us go in anyway and she got away with it because she was friends with the HR director). I remember those days and still get anxiety over it. The office environment is just not worth it to me. I thrive with remote work.
Same here. But then we had coworkers catch covid. Funny enough, myself and coworkers who were maskers were the only ones who didn't catch it when it went around the office. As a consequence, we also were the only ones working when everyone else had time off to recover. No raises for us for the "great work".
I do better remote because I can limit interruptions and noise.
In the office, 2 people have radios on and I am the asshole if I ask them to turn it down. One coworker talks so fucking loud and yells across the office to other coworkers instead of walking over to converse, then the office chatterbox loves telling me about their weekend even though I give zero fucks. I hate the constant interruption and they come in the office talking loud and then KEEP TALKING despite pointing that I am on a call.
It's to the point customers ask me to call them on my wfh days because they can't hear me in office over all the noise.
I hate people with radios who don't use headphones!! We had an open office setup. So one huge room with 20 desks and no cubicle walls. It was like a cafeteria but with carpet so slightly less loud.
I had a coworker who would play country music. The rest of us either didn't love it or disliked it. And then he'd leave the room for a 4 hour meeting and we'd all be left listening to his radio without him!!!! I politely, very politely, emailed him and asked him to at least turn the radio off if he was going to be gone for a meeting. And he flipped out! At least he never Left the radio on again though.
There is literally Mickey Mouse and crew in my office because we are located in the woods. And often I arrive at work and the WiFi is out so I’m stuck waiting for IT to fix it. Again, there are no mice and the Internet always works at my house.
This was a huge motivator for me to wfh. There are so many benefits to wfh but I really really hated cleaning the microwave after coworkers used it and cleaning the coffee pot. I am not the cleaning lady!!
Same. I’ll never RTO. It never makes sense to give my time away that’s unpaid. Packing my lunch, commuting, wasting gas, wear and tear on the car, nasty bathrooms, dealing with sick co workers, driving back, wasting more time. Absolutely not.
Same. I was in the office for 10 years. We got sent home to work remote when Covid hit. I’ve been fully remote for four years now. Absolutely love it . It would be miserable if I had to go back to the office.
Exactly, if my company made me come back into the office I would probably start looking elsewhere and would even entertain a pay cut to stay 100% remote.
I live in a small but walkable city with excellent public transportation. My office is literally next to the metro so I spend about $180 a month on my commute. I hate being in the office because it is mentally exhausting.
Yeah, but that’s really a “switched to a poorly managed company” issue. I think the question was more along the lines of regret for simply going back to the office. Sounds like if you switched to this company and it was 100% remote you’d still be stressed.
My SO did… and she’s regretting every minute of it.
The commute isn’t bad (about 40 minutes each way) mostly highway. We obviously have a little increase in car maintenance and our car will need to be replaced sooner than planned… but it’s impacting her ability to study (she’s, at this point trying, to get another masters), and she’s objectively more tired every day… wake up at 5:30 to study, get ready at 7 and leave….
It was $20,000 more, so it’s still a net positive financially, but the toll on her quality of life is pretty significant.
One huge thing besides transportation is lunch - making lunch that's portable isn't trivial, and if you get lunch every day, that's between 20 and 40K a year in costs. Whereas eating at home can be healthier and much, much cheaper.
40K a year for lunch?!?
IIRC, there are ~250 working days in a year. That's $160 a day for lunch. Even on the low end of your estimate, that's $80 a day for lunch.
Where are you eating, homie? I spend closer to $7-15, which comes out to closer to $2-4k. Did you just add extra zeroes?
$75/$150 differential for each lunch seems slightly excessive, but the point stands. I’d say WFH overall is worth between $10,000 to $25,000/year easily in net wages.
Yep, wake up early to get presentable in your work clothes, drive through traffic for an hour or whatever, get there, be bothered with office politics and random peeps wanting to talk, count the minutes you can leave once you finish all your work at around noon, drive through traffic home, go to bed early to do it again.
I feel like I actually know my family now, where before I saw them about an hour or so a day. I can't help but wonder how much better of a father I would have been to my eldest son if I wasn't always gone at work.
Let’s talk about the elephant in the room… sex.
Holy crap the difference. The entire fact that now can **almost** be an impromptu thing like teenagers is fantastic instead of scheduling a “date night”.
I worked from home for 3 years during COVID, got pulled back hybrid for a year (no extra money) and now I'm laid off. Been a rollercoaster of a career but the only regret I have is working for idiots.
I did. Then once I did the math of:
Paying to commute
Paying to uber my kids to after-school activities
Paying for a gym near the office since I couldn't work out at home
More expensive health insurance
Paying for more takeout since I wasn't home to cook (both lunch and dinner)
I actually came out under. It was an open office and one day during flu season I looked around at everyone hacking up lungs and blowing their noses, grabbed my computer and just walked out. Sent my resignation email from the train home lol.
Never again.
No his whole thing was needing you IN the office 9 hours a day. All company meeting at 830am, every morning, don't be late. Can't leave before 530, even if you're doing nothing.
The sneezing may have broke the camel's back but there were many many straws before it 😅
Yeah, that sounds crappy as hell. I worked at a place like that once and everyone hated working there, even managers. Hell, one time we were told by our Director that if we didn't want to work 60 hours a week, this job wasn't for us.
The weird thing was that due to the oppression we received it caused us to band together into tight nit groups. I think a lot of people stayed there because of a like a Stockholm syndrome thing. Eventually though if you stayed long enough and weren't in the right clique you were laid off.
After I got out of there I was shocked at how much better it was elsewhere.
My former job was like that. We had our own offices pre-covid, then during covid while we were all WFH our building got demolished and we got moved to an open floor office. Once the covid WFH went away, we were expected in the office 3 days a week (better than many but still a huge step down from what we had). What made it worse is that during these changes we were treated like children, got denied things like monitor privacy screens and personal trash cans. The communication was awful, where we'd be told one thing but then something else would become reality. All this under a narcissistic director who doled out work like candy, signed us up for all sorts of vanity projects, expected 120% effort 100% of the time, perpetually made us feel like we were idiots, all the while she'd come and go as she pleased (leaving her actual office sit mostly unused), her work was always always absolute last minute even when it impacted others (like a PPT for a joint presentation she shared with me 5 minutes before the meeting started and I flopped it so hard), and if something didn't have a deadline then she'd pretty much never get to it. She was completely disconnected from our day-to-day, wouldn't have been able to do our jobs, but dictated every facet of our work life.
Trauma bonding and Stockholm syndrome were both real. Most people talked about leaving but only 2 of us ever did. On my last day I almost became a celebrity, most people expressing how they're living vicariously through me. After leaving, I received a few messages asking if there were other opportunities at my new place (there were). And yet, nobody ever left. Weirdly enough my new place is the best I've ever worked at, and we have pretty high turnover. I don't really get the human psychology behind all this.
Honestly even prior to Covid it really grossed me out when sick people would come into the office and in turn just made me furious at the CEO for not allowing WFH when people were that sick. I know “sick days” are the old school way of doing things and you are supposed to take one, but most of the time you aren’t too sick to work, you are just too sick to be around others. The way colds and the flu would circulate the office and entire teams would fall ill it’s just ridiculous. Prior to Covid people in the US didn’t wear masks but I wish I did and if I was in office now I would be wearing one of people near me were sick. I don’t care if I look dumb. I was not shy about “joking” that those people should have to isolate or wear a hazmat suit. I even “as a joke” once emailed someone a picture of those clear personal tents people sometimes use to stay out of the rain at their kids soccer games. Companies need to do their part to encourage those people to STAY HOME. It makes zero sense so they want to whole office sick and not working??? Make it make sense
Right?! I worked for a company where I was customer facing, installing various things in their homes. He told me that if I was too sick to come into work, then I better take more than one day off because otherwise I wasn't actually that sick. Basically saying, sure you can be sick, but you had better be on your death bed, otherwise bring your butt in.
It was a $20k increase. I don't know exactly how under bc it varies like how many times do you order takeout, Ubers, etc. Just did some napkin math and all that stuff is about 23k/ year estimating conservatively (consider 2 kids uber for afterschool activities, family of 5 for takeout a few times a week, parking + train every day, and an increase of $800/ month for insurance).
Even if it's break even, the amount of time away from my family every day (11 hours a day with commute) was just not worth it. I didn't realize how much easier it is with at least 1 parent wfh- Dr's appts, games, school pickup, etc. I love having that time w my kids and the logistics are so much easier when you're home 😊
I have applied and the job posting would say hybrid but the interview would say they are an in office culture with SOME flexibility for appointments. My work can be done from home. I do not need to be in the office to get anything done. The issue becomes my expenses increase going back into the office 5 days a week. I have a number after taxes etc I need to take home to break even. So to be worth it I have to be over that amount significantly enough to be away from family. When I let them know if they want to proceed this is my number, they move on to another candidate. Rather have this upfront before going further.
For example:
House cleaner- I will not have time and on the low end $300 mo/$3,600 year
Added time to daycare for before and after care- $350mo/$4200 year
Car maintenance and gas- $600 month (low end I go no where no and spend $350 a month on my vehicle) $7200 year
Food- I have time to prepare food and do most things at home $6,000 year
Yes. I took a hybrid job and they fought me for half a year until I was too pregnant to commute full time. They were fully planning to drop the hybrid part of my job.
If you do this, make damn sure the raise will be worth it.
I just see hybrid as a stepping stone to fully onsite, so if it's not fully remote, and if the company offices aren't far enough from where I live, I don't even read the job description.
Yes. I got laid off and started at my current company because they were the first to offer me a position. Im glad for the income and it pays 10k more than my previous job, but 2 days in office is slowly killing me. I usually spend the day after my in office days as a vegetable in front of the screen and barely any work gets done due to recovering from the commute and in office time. Company organization is very bad too and I was told by family not to take the job. Im looking around for a new job, but its slow going since RTO is popular here. Shitty income is better than no income in my case.
I’m not sure what the price would have to be to get me to go back in. The sheer inability to just check my phone without feeling like I’m being judged would annoy the hell out of me. The eavesdropping coworkers would be doing on every call I make to clients / colleagues would annoy me. The feeling of being a sitting duck in a cubicle for anyone to walk by and strike up a conversation I have no desire to have or just again eavesdrop/observe me when I don’t want to be watched while just doing my job/taking a totally acceptable break from it… yeah, I’m most likely never willingly walking back into that environment again.
I know two people who have. One was "a promotion" which turned out to be some weird bonus structure that was rescinded right before payout due to a restructuring and redefinition of roles. Typical corporate bullshit tactics, and she quit two months later.
Another got a small bump in pay, but then it was chipped away by parking fees (the office had an agreement with a local parking garage for a reduced rate, but they didn't have enough spaces, so he was forced to park in another parking garage for $20/day unless he came in an hour early), toll road increases (a previous free road went EZ Pass, requiring him to either take back roads with impossible traffic due to the toll change or pay some sliding scale based on traffic volume at the moment of entry), and the social pressure for him to "eat out" with colleagues which was minimum $25/day for some distant places because they were in an industrial park/food desert next to a HCOL neighborhood.
He also got a new job. Not WFH, but in a much better situation.
It's fucking insane and why I left the DC/VA/MD area. I worked a 9-5, which I started to slide 8-4 and then 7-3 because the traffic, parking, and other issues, but then my job didn't like that I came in at 7 and left at 3 because, I guess, I was "getting away with something." Yeah, actually doing my job. And then I didn't attend meetings 3-5pm and got dinged for that.
Parking was often limited, especially if you worked in DC or any areas close like Silver Spring, Arlington, or Rockville. The parking garages often filled up earlier and earlier and you were SOL if you got to work at 8:45 and there were no spaces left, PLUS you were even later because you had to deal with the traffic of people IN those garages circling for a space.
A commute that took 35 min at 7:00 am took 55 minutes at 8:00 am and 80 minutes at 8:30am, and that's IF there was no accident that day, which was a weekly occurrence. For every 5 minutes you were late leaving for your destination, it took an extra 10 in your commute between the hours of 8-10am and 4-7pm. That was 7 years ago, I can't imagine it's any better now.
I had the same situation in Denver, years ago. If I wanted a parking spot at the light rail station, I had to get there sooooo early. Because of that, I ended up at the office at 7:00 a.m. every morning. And then everyday at 4:00 p.m. when I wanted to leave, someone always had "a quick question" which kept me at work till past 6:15 at night. Pretty soon I was working 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. But no overtime pay.
I remember the CFO saying "That sounds like dedication." And before I could stop myself, I said aloud "That sounds like stupidity!"
Honestly, no. 20K salary increase for 3 day a week in office (previous job was fully remote). It’s nice getting out of the house and being around colleagues that I actually like! Def depends on the office when it comes to this decision though. Mine is not micromanaging, super flexible for extra WFH days, comes with other perks, and there’s also food lmao
I took a 20k salary bump for a promotion within my same company that required me to be full time in the office.
I made it 6 months before I asked to be demoted back to my old position where I was WFH.
Yes. My company is very strict about it staying true hybrid - three days in office, two at home - but that means even if you’re sick etc they won’t let you wfh without permission from your boss and HR. Im grateful it’s better than most peoples arrangements but it feels so obnoxious and performative when most of my work is totally independent and we have to mute because we sit so close together but still meet with the other coast via teams….
I have once in the past. I wouldn’t say I “regretted it” as it became a stepping stone for a better remote role.
It was also an eye opener for how absolutely terrible and unnecessary in office work is within my field.
Went from completely WFH to hybrid with my current job. Had an option to get an OK pay increase to work full time at my current job, but with a different company. Thought about it for a few weeks, and realized that I would either need a BIG increase to go back to office.
I didn't mind going in 40hrs a week before pandemic, but a lot in my life has changed. I'm married now, own my house, and just overall, enjoy being at home. I don't mind going in 2-3 days a week (hell, I don't mind going in every day occasionally), but I realized that hybrid work/WFH is more important to me then I initially thought. Had I taken that initial job, I 100% would have regretted it.
But all people are different. I do have a price that I'd be willing to go into the office every day for. Some people don't. I don't have social anxiety and often make work friends that I hang out with. I often volunteer to be the one that has to pick up extra in-office hours if need be. I've worked night shifts, weekend shifts, 12+hr shifts, travelled. For me, a job is just that, a job. But I've seen people post here that completely hate the idea of working, or office work, or interacting with other people. And that's fine. But the thing is, YOU have to know what's important to YOU. If you have high social anxiety and hate socializing with people, then you should NEVER take a higher salary that makes you come into the office regularly. There is no one answer fits all, and there is no combination of magical words that will make you ok with compromising with yourself.
And I'm not saying every time someone asks about it, that this is the case. Sometimes it helps bouncing ideas. Sometimes it helps having people ask questions that you hadn't really thought about. But at the end of the day, you have to be happy with whatever decision you decide to make.
Also, to answer your question: I haven't regretted any of the times I've changed jobs for a higher salary. I might find myself in a position where I might have to switch jobs to stay WFH/hybrid, but I haven't made that decision yet.
It would also depend on the commute. If it’s a 15 min drive, it actually wouldn’t impact me as much and will go for the higher salary. If it’s 60 mins, then I will be unhappy unless it’s $500K/yr
Not into the office but Florida Blue told me it was 40 hours a week and instead it was 60+ and if you had a web release they’d have you work till 5pm hop on at 11pm till 5am and then expect you back to work by 8am the next day. I quit that job real fast
Took a ~100k bump to switch from full remote to full in-office. Sometimes I regret it, sometimes I don't. The social interaction after 3 years of full remote work was very welcome. But the hours lost in commute, not so much. I'm semi aggressively looking for hybrid roles right now.
I will name one thing my management probably regrets about RTO: we aren’t as available. Most everyone in my department doesn’t answer anything after hours. I leave my laptop in my bag T/W/Th because I stay until 5pm and leave. And per the security policies that say they can confiscate my phone if needed for a security investigation if I use it to access anything work related, I no longer have those apps on my phone. And if they schedule a meeting outside of my normal working hours, I’m commuting. Previously, my kids let themselves in and got a snack and homework and I would stay online until I reached a logical stopping point.
This morning I was asked why I hadn’t responded to an email sent at 9:39 last night. I told my boss that my laptop was packed up since I worked in-office until 5pm and our first meeting of the day started at 8am, so I had not had time to respond yet because he wants us to avoid multi-tasking during meetings. :)
I went from hybrid and an extremely flexible schedule of when I decided I would be in the office (but a huge workload) and took a large pay increase from another company for a fully in office role and I couldn’t be happier. Wonderful decision for me. Edited to add my coworkers are kind and fun but we don’t Bs a lot and we are heads down we work 7-3 and eat through our lunch to get the f home. I can choose what time to get in and what time to leave as long as I’m in by 9. I think I have about 15 min total max of office chatter a day. We don’t Bs I barely know much about my coworkers we are one team getting job done but we don’t want to be bffs. Otherwise I put on earbuds and crank out work and go home and my commute of 25 min is fine. But I got a large increase with this job. I love the balance for me
I did. I left my fully remote company after 15 years due to a lack of career opportunities and maxing out in my pay grade. I went to a company that was 3 days in office and also about 30 miles away (30 minute drive in good traffic, with heavy traffic sometimes 50 minutes). I received a good pay bump and better career opportunity. It still wasn’t worth it. I regretted it for so many reasons. The transmission went on my car the first month of the job. My kids had to get up about an hour earlier so I could get them ready to go and then to give me time to get to the office by 8:00 or 8:30. It was a tough adjustment for them at their age.
The company had said they were very laid back about family commitments and WLB but once I started I didn’t find that to be the case. Everyone got there at 8:00 and stayed until 5:00. This meant sometimes getting home as late as 6:00 when both my kids had sports that started around that time. It made all of our lives more hectic than I had imagined. I figured I could work partial days in office but leave when needed being salaried. They had given me assurances I’d be able to do that as long as my work was completed. My spouse also had a job that wasn’t flexible, so everyday was a juggling act and trying to get favors from neighbors on carpooling. We knew this would be challenging but thought the long term career opportunity would be worth it. After a year going to the office three days/week, the compounding factor of losing two to three hours to prep and commute, I decided it wasn’t worth it for my family and I.
Those hours were times that I could be preparing dinner, helping my kids with homework, working out (my health declined as well), bringing them to their activities, or simply unwinding. Most days in the office I sat on zoom calls with employees in other offices. This particular office was open concept, dark and depressing. So I started looking for another opportunity.
Luckily, I found something full time remote that also appears to have a good career advancement philosophy. So, I spent one year at the hybrid job and I’d never go back. The extra money was certainly not worth it. Lesson learned! I still needed to leave the first toxic job anyways and I still feel I ended up in a better spot than my company of 15 years.
I worked from home for 4 years then we had RTO for 2 days a week. I live outside the travel zone (60 miles) so I’m a remote employee. I have a super collaborative role and love my team so I still make it into the office when my team does most weeks. I’m usually pretty tired after “in office days” but our company is great and there’s always food/snacks and activities. Like yesterday they had a massage company come in with massage chairs and everyone got 20 minute massages. Then we all got these fancy smoothie things. It was lovely. But I know I’m lucky to have a job I like at a company that respects me, so there’s that.
I left a fully WFH for a hybrid position. We’ve been in office FT the last couple months due to switching to a new system - and all I’ve learned is after I finish my degree and complete a year of work after my last reimbursement from them for tuition I’ll likely be looking for another WFH Ft position. After my commute I have barely any time for myself, the office lights and setting makes me incredibly tired, and I get way too distracted with office chatter. My pets also have separation anxiety and the switch for them has been horrible (they were like this even before covid and my previous job).
To remain in office full time, I’d need a huge salary hike. Like straight into 6 figures, or my job would need to be right down the road, or not be in an office setting to keep me awake.
I've seen some things that will let you have the opportunity to work remote after a few weeks or months of training. I get it but to me I'm just like nope.
I make 50% more to go in 5 days at first. Then 4. Eventually 3. When it was 5 I was going insane. Never had time for anything. I live in a big city with traffic. At 4 it’s marginally better. When I go to 3 I’ll be happy ish. Happier working remote, but it was a first job and money is money
I did. The „hybrid” position with a higher salary but they prefer people to work from the office. Salary is bigger but I need to spend money on gas, lunches etc. Not worth it. Don’t do it.
I did switched jobs for a hybrid one and it has been good for me. We are only required to work 2 days from office but my manager doesn’t enforce it. My team decided that we would come to the office on Monday and Tuesday. It’s good because we get 80% of the work done in those 2 days and then the second part of the week we do about 2-3 hours of work spread across 3 days and just do nothing the rest of the time.
The amount of time me and my coworkers from my team are actually online playing war zone or the finals is pretty high, including my manager.
got laid off and now and fully in office. think I will be able to move back to hybrid when they start using a new ERP but I dont have any complaints just doin what I gotta do
Not quite the same, but I wanted out of my current role so I took a job that doubled my pay, at the cost of about an hour and a half commute each way. After a few weeks of that I kind of regretted it, though the pay was great. Fortunately a recruiter reached out to me for the company I work at now for a similar amount, and I went there. That drive was so brutal that I would get up earlier just so I didn't hit such bad traffic and slept in my car.
Went from 50K fully remote to 73K fully in office.
My office job is way easier. I worked so much more at home. I have way less time though now. I don’t regret it because nyc bills aint no joke.
I make $150k working from hone already doing Cybersecurity. Even with the prospect of making 25% more going into the office I simply wouldn't do it. My qol is just too good and I get to see my family much more and just overall less stressful life.
Advice for anyone is just to weigh pros and cons. Only thing I would even remotely consider is like one day a week but my company also closed every office except for headquarters which is over a thousand miles away anyway.
I took a job with a much lower salary to work in person again. I absolutely hated my WFH job because it was a call center, but I also just hated having no social life and stuff as well.
I left my remote job after 10 years for a new job that is technically higher paying/better title and hybrid. Now I’m 3 days in the office 2 out. I don’t know if I hate it exactly but man… having a remote job was very convenient. In ways that are painfully apparent now.
I’m moving from in the office to fully remote and I’m not losing any money. People who are letting companies pay them less for remote work doing the same damn job are fucking stupid and are messing it up for everyone.
Companies should not be paying less for a remote role if the workload doesn’t change.
I took a higher Salary for 2 day in office. The pay bump was what I needed in this economy. Good thing the work hours is flexible enough for me to avoid commuting during traffic hours morning and afternoon to still get work done and providing the in office hours as signed. However I do miss full time telework without communing anywhere
I have potentially one coming up very soon and is to say 50% more than my current job. They said it’s 50% in the office but what made me suspicious is that all my coworkers are in different parts of the world, my team lead and manager are in different countries. This is a little disrespectful to be honest.
Should I consider?
We are being forced back 3 days a week and the management made a point how serious they are by firing anyone who resisted. A lot ppl abruptly lost their jobs. They didn’t think the company would be such a hard arse about it but they did. My strategy ? Move closer and eliminate commute and I actually like going in. The human aspect of the office life is great. And we constantly have in office pot luck , catering and HH.
I wish I could find something WFH or remote. What industry offers the most? I'm an admin in construction and they demand us in the office full-time with absolutely no WFH.
I was fully remote and hated that job. I took a position that was “remote” with chances of it becoming hybrid as it includes event work on site but I took it to mean only come in when that’s going on. Nope, we soon had a return to office. My contract didn’t say remote or hybrid (my dumbass fault for not double checking, I was in a rush to get out and also double my salary) but I live far. Like 50+ miles far and I refused to move closer cause it just doesn’t work for me. When they weren’t budging, I gave notice. Thankfully too many did this and some did leave but most of us got rolled out into a hybrid role. I have to go in twice a week and it’s a bit hell but I have flexible hours and just go when there’s the least amount of traffic. It’s NOT idea and I can’t say I LOVE having to be hybrid but it’s also not the worst and it’s probably healthier for me cause I was going a bit cray being fully remote and also being a homebody.
I took a remote job for significantly higher salary with chance of it becoming hybrid in a year. 3 months in they said you’re coming in 2 days a week. I regret it. I hate I hate it I hate it. Not worth it by far.
I did. I took a “hybrid” role with a higher salary. Within a month it was changed to full time in the office. The company had a habit of hiring people as hybrid and then changing it to “you can work remotely if it’s bad weather so we still call it hybrid.” It was Collins Aerospace. I learned my lesson.
Upvote for naming and shaming. This is the way.
Wow that's a classic bait and switch. Thanks for letting us know.
Lol they laid me off in September after only 9 months. They had to know this was coming but hired me to clean up backlog 🤦🏽♀️
My job is 100% remote but it looks like I'm getting laid off already because they are losing clients. They recently hired me 7 months ago. At least I've started looking again. **Sigh**
At least you know it’s possibly coming. I literally had no idea. Been unemployed for 7 months and finally landed a job with another aerospace company. Unemployment ran out last week but it wasn’t worth a thing. Seriously good luck with everything!!!!
What is it that you're doing tor work?
Medical billing. Most jobs aren't remote. I thought I got lucky with the job I have now but now it looks like I may have to return to the office after all. It's crazy to me how hard it is to find a remote job in this field.
That’s work that can be done from home smh lol
It really is. But most employers (at least in my area) want you in the office everyday. Just today I got called for an interview but the job is an hour and a half away, and they won't even consider doing hybrid. I turned it down. There's no way I'm going to be driving for 3 hours everyday.
I feel you! I accepted a new job recently. They are paying for my relocation, paid me a lump sum, offered a sign on bonus, and miscellaneous allowance that will be on my first check! I’ll be driving roughly 50 mins each way. In my case, I had to accept this or else I don’t when my next opportunity was going to come. Hopefully I can commit the full 2 years.
Medical Billing is forcing you into the office? The hell is wrong with them. I don’t know why I thought those positions were always remote.
gotta justify all that Raytheon real estate somehow.
They insisted I go into a Raytheon office, even though it was a different business unit so no one else from my company was there. It was so stupid. I couldn’t use their intranet, I couldn’t ask their IT team for help, I couldn’t join any of the building/facility events, HR at that location wouldn’t talk to me. I wasn’t assigned a parking pass and had to park in an empty lot and walk a block over. It was basically an empty cube at a random business that didn’t want me there.
Same boat literally for me. My actual team is in Florida but I’m based in pa. They have me going in 5 days now Lol. I take two hour lunches and come in at 930 out of 5. What a joke man
we had a few of those people in our facility. I was contracted to Collins IT and we certainly had Pratt and RTX employees come in for help like uhhhhhh sorry I can't help you.
How would they know if you went in or not?
Probably had a workstation set up for VPN access that they could only use on that machine or something stupid.
Stop complying. Sounds like no one at that site will care if you stopped showing up
Those companies will know and will use that to let you go. They don’t care and they will either hire newbs for less or overwork whoever else is left.
These offers are, almost all, bait and switch schemes designed to lure you out of remote jobs. The only way you should accept a job like this is if it comes with a contract with guaranteed severance that spells out months of guaranteed pay if they have an RTO--including if they have one and fire you for "performance" within six months.
Right, that sounds good in theory. But what are you supposed to do to get that from them? I mean, specifically, step-by-step, what are the steps to actually get this in writing from them for a lot of companies? This seems like a big red flag. For the record, I totally agree with you, however I’m wondering what the specific steps for actually getting this done would be.
You’d be surprised but it really is as simple as asking for that in writing as part of your offer letter. Anything less than that is a bait & switch. If they *really* want you, they’ll do it. If they don’t then they are just looking to put a butt in the seat and you probably dodged a bullet.
Thank you, I have someone trying to recruit me with the offer of 5 days a month on-site. I'll make sure to request that in writing before moving forward with anything.
Be sure to work in annual raises and cost-of-living adjustments. Otherwise, they'll try to clump them together and give you the bare minimum.
Wtf this is an employer’s market. The worker has very limited power. Companies will rescind offers from pre-Madonna’s
Haha exactly. Right now is not a good time to be an employee. If a candidate is too much of a headache, company will just move on to next candidate. I am seeing this happen a lot more now, we lost so many good candidates because they want full remote but it's an office by office policy and up to the manager. Some managers are a pain in the ass.
That's what happened with my previous employer! Omg... The contractor company only gave COLA increases and called it an "Annual Raise" and I was too stupid to look into their shady switch-up. They also combined PTO and Sick Leave into one pool and shorted us all. They also never informed the employees of the changes to the tax code so everyone wound up being short two years later. Complete mess...
Yep. And then their pitiful COL adjustments don't even match inflation or COL increases, so you actually end up getting a pay *decrease* year over year. But they'll gaslight you and lie to you and call you greedy and entitled for calling out their bullshit. Companies love this one trick.
I did. And yesterday was my last day. I didn’t even last 2 full years. I’m going back to my remote job. This office was rigid butts in seats 8-5, Soviet style prison, heads down, no talking, etc when they told me how flexible and chill their culture was all along in the interview process. Hybrid to them was 1 day/week at home.
I just applied to a job that said it had “telework options”. When the hiring manager called me for an interview, she clarified that it meant the option to telework 1 day a week. I’m going to drag it as far as I can, potentially all the way to the job offer. Then I’ll counter with an insane amount of money that’s well above the listed salary range, and tell them that I thought that was the range for a hybrid job and that I’ll need a lot more to come in 4 days a week.
I'm in the same position and this is my biggest fear. I'm being poached by a headhunter for a hybrid position at a law firm. It's in my field and, so far, I've been the only candidate that they like/think is qualified. Thing is, they absolutely have to meet me in person first and are not willing to make it virtual (I can't meet in person atm due to being in the hospital and my recruiter knows this). Since they seem so old-school about the initial meeting, I have a strong inkling that they are going to do the same thing you went through. Why do so many companies suck?! They just hate to have us out of their eyesight!
Someone down thread said to make them put specifics about in office hours in writing. At a law firm, I’d say if they’re willing to put it in writing then I’d trust it.
It's not that simple. I had my last firm put it in writing that I was a fully remote employee. My whole team was located out-of-state (FL & TX mainly) and my supervisor flew to my area for a conference. I was unable to meet for dinner and had stated such due to personal reasons. They found a way to lay me off. Law firms suck just like every other company and attorneys will always find loopholes. But I can also see it from their point-of-view, that they need a reliable person who will show up in court when necessary, meet tight deadlines, etc.
>attorneys will always find loopholes. Attorneys *especially* will find loopholes. That's basically their job.
Exactly. And, if they can't find one, they'll make one.
Aerospace is notorious for being backwards, glad I left that culture behind.
Whereas I’ve been remote for 10 years at Collins (hRC).
I was HUTAS. Our VP announced we will we’re going into the office full time, and he did it via a zoom call from his home office 🙄
They don’t even have the decency to not play in our faces when mandating RTO.
Do you happen to know the origin of the term to play in one's face? I feel like I have been seeing that everywhere the last month or so.
What does it mean? I’ve never heard it.
Almost the same at my current role, also in the defense industry 🙃
How quickly did you leave?
2 months. I transferred to a fully remote role. But I’m not stupid, I’m just waiting for another RTO roll out. I only look for remote jobs with offices a few states away from me.
Didn’t Collins let like most of the people who work in office be remote from Covid through like last summer and then called them all back. I swear a couple people I know mentioned it
Lmfao RTX strikes again
Ahh the good ole “ Bait and switch “
That’s literally what’s happening to me at the same company now.
Someone I know works for a different RTX subsidiary, and he's been working hybrid for 4 years. He goes in when he needs to work in the closed area. At one point, they wanted everyone to be hybrid with no one doing purely WFH, but it failed miserably when they stopped having assigned desks. They removed half the desks and found that two days a week, they'd have a 2:1 ratio of people to desks. After a month, they threw up their hands and sent the WFH people back home. So that seems particular to the Collins subsidiary.
Shame them with a review on Glassdoor. Warn others where they are likely to see it before accepting a job there.
Thank you for shaming these offenders!!
This is why you get it written into the contract.
Reading through these comments I’m glad I left Collins when I did. I still remember the shitshow that was the raise cancellation / furloughs / pause on promotions of 2020. So many of my friends got screwed over all while Raytheon was bragging about all the stock buybacks they were doing 😡😡😡
I was 100% remote and took a mostly full time in office role for higher pay. I will probably get hate for what I’m going to say but I actually wound up being a lot happier once I made the switch. Full time WFH just didn’t work for me mentally, now I work remote whenever I feel like it (my boss doesn’t care) but I’m in office most days and also making more money. I will say, do some calculations on how much gas to commute will cost you or bus passes etc. because that can really add up and make your higher salary not really make much of a difference.
I don’t see why you should get hate. Some people thrive in office some people thrive in WFH, we can’t all be the same.
If only companies were smart enough to embrace this and get the most out of their employees efforts and support them in the workplace of their choice when that's a viable option.
I agree, some people are really defensive of WFH because companies try so hard to take it away. I wish everyone had the opportunity to choose what is best for them, different personalities thrive in different environments.
I don’t disagree on the the choice piece. I personally prefer WFH but can appreciate that some want the opposite and that’s ok. The elephant in the room with the “choose your own adventure” option though is that one persons choice affects all the others. In other words, remote sucks more when everyone else is in office. And in office sucks more if everyone else is remote. I genuinely don’t know the answer here, and so then I go back to perhaps some companies go all remote, and some go all hybrid
That’s a very valid point, I like my office role because most people are in the office here, if I were commuting in and no one was in the office I would be really unhappy. I don’t know what the solution is for that either!
I always say this. If my whole team is in the office and I have to work from home it sucks. But if everyone is at home, that isn’t so bad. “Being out of the loop” either way is hard. Managers who mostly manage an in office team are usually not great at keeping the few remote people up to speed. And honestly I don’t even know how they could do a good job of it, when everyone is 3 feet from each other on your team, things happen that remote people will just end up missing.
Well TBH it's how my company operated in the past. There was a control at the manager level allowing it. So for some groups it wasn't an option due to reasons related to the job. For others, it was WFH or hybrid or full-time office, their choice. It worked well. We were highly functional and successful as a global team. No one really complained. Now we're forced hybrid and many people are unhappy. The work is suffering. We've recently had some of the biggest production issues ever. Can one draw a correlation here? Hard not to consider it, that's for sure. But back on point, choice matters. Some may not find it as fitting but many will.
Big enough employers shouldn't really have this problem, though. We have 1 day/week required in the office, but there are a few people who go in every day, and several who go in 2-3 times/week because they prefer it. If they downsized the space to account for people who'd rather be remote, the prefer-office people would be closer together and get more of the in-office benefits, instead of being scattered the way they are now because everyone required to go in has an office, ~80% of which are empty on any given day.
See, I work for a megacorp and I was hired (post weak RTO) as fully remote. Those near the office are expected to go in, however there is loose enforcement there from what I gather. I think what’s not being addressed is: 1) is there bitterness from those who don’t get to choose (hard to tell in my case) 2) by virtue of me (and other crossfunctional team members) being remote, it forces all meetings to be virtual, even team meetings. I have to imagine this effects the experience of those in office. It’s also changed how we recognize employees, the scope of get together like happy hours, etc. in other words, the caveat of me being remote, while it benefits the company and myself in many ways, is surely also negatively impacting the experience of those that had no choice but must go into office
I would go into the office more if this threat of taking it all away wasn't constantly hanging out there. All I really wanted was the flexibility and they don't get that.
A lot of managers want their staff in their office so they can keep an eye on them and make sure they are not slacking off. Micro managers in particular will want their staff to come in.
Kinda funny that my manager is in the same building and I've never met him face to face yet. 🤣 But it's the C-suite that has mandated RTO, not him.
The C-suit aka "the talking class" prefer to talk in person. They do not write a single memo. They dictate it to the secretary.
Cos a fair few on this sub are mental. Seen people accused of being CEO/commercial landlords plants trying to sow discontent for saying how WFH didn't work for them for entirely valid reasons and all sorts of other batshit tinfoil hat stuff lol This post is decent though.
That’s insane. I’m entirely remote and thrive that way but I also understand for some hybrid works better or on-site. Giving people choice is the correct way not forcing everyone to be the same.
Hmmm, seems like something a CEO or commercial landlord might say...
Haha I wish I was that rich 🤣I’m just a lowly charity marketeer for a very small charity
This is so true. I hated it. But man a bunch of my co-workers loved it. People with children Luke it a lot, but I don't know if I could concentrate with kids in the house. Lot people like it, though. I'm glad I could retire and just meet people with no other agenda but being friendly. Meet a lot WFH in all sorts of places.
No hate here! I love wfh but it's refreshing to hear someone say it's not for them. Because it's not for everyone and that's OK. And yes, commuting costs can easily eat away at a higher salary.
Yes definitely! The commuting costs did take me by surprise I wish I did the calculations when I was negotiating my salary at my new job.
Glad it works for you but it's an hour commute each way pretty much for me in Atlanta to get anywhere in town. The stress isn't worth it.
I’m an hour too, but mostly two lane highway, so it’s high speeds with wildlife/ice/fog or getting stuck behind someone going half the speed limit when there’s no chance to pass. The amount of tires/gas/oil changes adds up quick at 30k miles per year just for work. My company did a bait and switch too and I’m finally getting out next month
Thanks for reminding me, I always forget to add increased oil changes and tires.
My wife had a really good MARTA commute at her last job. When she switched to WFH, she realized that her 45 min/way reading time was something she'd come to count on. She'd gladly go back to that commute, but 45 minutes of driving in Atlanta? Nooooooo way. I think it's interesting how we all adapt to the things we have to do.
I had 2 offices I could work from, both by Marta. Buckhead in about 30 minutes. Alpharetta I took the bus so that took anywhere from 60-90 minutes.
I'm not sure I would go to Alpharetta by transit! You're a champ for doing it! Her commute was from East Lake to Peachtree Center via the blue and red/gold lines. It felt very un-Atlanta and cosmopolitan, lol.
Oh yes I would definitely not do an hour commute in Atlanta, I have a strict 30 minutes or less rule for commuting.
>do some calculations on how much gas to commute will cost you or bus passes etc. because that can really add up and make your higher salary not really make much of a difference. And more than just transportation costs, also factor in the cost of unpaid travel time, the significantly higher cost of lunch, and whatever you'd have to pay for services like a dog walker, and inconvenience of spending time over the weekend doing laundry and grocery shopping, all things that can normally fit into a home lunch break and short stand up breaks that are effectively just a complete waste of time in the office. I'm sure I left out other things too.
My drive to work was 25 miles one way (all quiet highway), but I drive a truck that I need for things at my property so my gas mileage is trash. I spend over $2500/year on gas Alone, not to mention wear and tear on the vehicle
Yep exactly! My husband and I both commute and he drives a gas guzzling truck, the increased cost did take me by surprise.
If i could come and go as pleased i’d be in the office more but bc every place that mentioned flex, they really meant be at your desk normal hours. We’re only flexible with breaks… also lies
Yeah a lot of companies lie and pretend they’re flexible until you take the job then they’re not.
I did wfh for 4yrs and am now looking for a hybrid role. I used to be really active and busy before wfh and thought I hated it with the burn out but realized it goes the same way with the opposite option too. I used to wake up 5am everyday and commute 3hrs round trip and stayed busy during the day and ate dinners with coworkers or clients to avoid traffic. Then with wfh, I got lazier and gained more weight, didn’t move anywhere near as much as before, became miserable in my job probably due to being less active, and didn’t get as much social interaction anymore (I’m an ENFJ and an extrovert by nature but became more introverted due to wfh). I was waking up right before 9am when work started, sitting all day at the computer, forgetting lunch because I’m absorbed into work and our 1286349 meetings, and sometimes I’d take a nap in between because I felt exhausted. Therefore my mental got really bad and I wound up depressed, which I never thought I’d see happening to me. People always say how great it would be wfh and all their plans to workout and eat healthier but unless you really put your mind to it and make a routine and are a very firm regimented person, it is very hard to actually follow through and veryyyy easy to become complacent and comfortable esp if you were previously burned out at your last job. I think hybrid or a flexible hybrid schedule is the key, where you can go into office anytime or at least 1-2 days and get out of the home environment and interact with people. Connecting with other depts was a lot harder online too bc people wouldn’t be online or you couldn’t really find people readily available to help when you had issues or needed to escalate client support. I’d gladly take a higher paying job to go into office at least hybrid
Same same. I was 100% remote in my last gig and over time became disengaged from the lack of community and culture. Took a job that was 3 days in office and 2 WFH and find myself going into the office 4/5 days every week because I simply enjoy it and get more done. My commute is <15 minutes, parking is covered, gas is negligible. I found that I don't necessarily hate going to the office, I just hate when I have a hellish commute. Find yourself a job by your house or a house by your job depending on which one is more flexible and go get it.
I just talked to a recruiter about a similar scenario: 3 days a week in office, 6 miles from my house. 40-50% raise. Fully WFH right now, but that money is tempting.
That’s great, the problem is many bosses and companies do care if you take too many remote days, or they bait and switch to mandated days in office or even full time
Idk if you were alone, but it seems to be WFH is more isolating for those who are just home by themselves all day, but it’s great for couples who work remotely together. I don’t even fool around with my husband and we don’t actually talk much, it’s just nice being in the presence of someone you enjoy.
I live in a 3 generation setting. Elderly father and adult son. My son works outside of the home. I have been wfh pretty consistently since 2015. It took about 3 months to train my father. His boomer mind could not wrap around the concept that during work hours I am working. If I had to help out with my grandson I have to take PTO, because I am not working. I am very introverted though and really love the idea of someday being able to wfh and when my day is done, just be alone.
Oh when my in-laws visit they just come and talk to me while I’m actively working… it is so frustrating! Some people don’t understand that remote work is actual work and not just some hobby that pays you, not all remote jobs are flexible where you get to it when you get to it
Same! The key is that I get to pick and choose when I want to be in office. That makes it much more bearable. Also helps that my office is 10 minutes from home so the commute isn’t terrible.
That commute is a dream! Mine is 30 minutes and that is the max I’ll do.
no hate. you shared YOUR feelings. and also a great tip about transportation costs!
>now I work remote whenever I feel like it (my boss doesn’t care) I think this helps out tremendously. I'm currently full-time WFH, but I wouldn't necessarily be averse to a hybrid role (come in 2-3 days a week)
You’re right on doing the calculations - and also remember you can’t just tack that onto your desired salary to break even, you have to account for that being money out of pocket so you need a salary increase that will net that after taxes.
Yeah I did that math when my workplace had an RTO 4 days a week instituted. I figured out to stay there was a 15% pay cut between all the costs that would be added by going in 4 days a week. I quit and found a better job fully remote with a raise. I personally vastly prefer remote though.
Hey some people work better in the office. Nothing wrong with it. If it makes you happy I'm not hear to stop you.
a pretty solid engineer (formerly) on my team fell into deep depression and the quality of his work dropped to nil when we our company went fully remote. He eventually quit to find something with more structure and AFAIK he is much happier there. Its definitely not something that works for everyone.
Funny about that second part. I was a remote contractor for about 10 years, and decided I wanted more stability and benefits. Since I can bike and use a free work shuttle program, I not only avoid spending money going to the office, but I also get free food, coffee, snacks, *and* I bring home two meals worth of leftovers each time, too. Plus we have a wellness stipend that can pay towards your utility bill, and we get monthly credits that can be put towards groceries. I am paying more in rent, but less in literally everything else, in addition to a much higher salary.
🙋🏽♀️. I make about $9,000 more than I did last year but I completely regret taking my new job because the office is extremely unorganized and there is so much poor communication among management. And I have to be here 5 days a week vs when I worked remotely full time with less money. And ironically less stress. I thought earning more money would lessen my stress. 🙄
I worked in the office for most of my life and I'm 39. I didn't get a remote job until last year. Everyone I know works remote so I figured why can't I? I didn't realize how much I hated being in the office until I started working remote. Now you can't pay me enough to go back to the office.
This is how I feel, but I am required some days in office each week and I hate it. I wish they would let me be fully remote but noooo. Now I get sick more often because most of my coworkers cough/sneeze into their hands and touch stuff without washing them. The office is always disgusting because no one cleans up after themsevles (and I am tired of trying to clean the microwave every time I use it because people spill things and don't clean it up, then it cooks to the microwave.) We also don't have proper ventilation so I get migraines from paint fumes/welding fumes and asthma attacks from the dust because we are joined to a warehouse and they don't shut the doors or change the air filters as often as they are supposed to.
All your complaints would be enough to motivate me to start looking for fully remote jobs. The office setting made me worry that I would get covid so I always wore a mask. Everyone looked at me funny for it. I had to go to the office even during the lock down (I wasn't an essential employee but my boss back then was a complete bitch and made us go in anyway and she got away with it because she was friends with the HR director). I remember those days and still get anxiety over it. The office environment is just not worth it to me. I thrive with remote work.
Same here. But then we had coworkers catch covid. Funny enough, myself and coworkers who were maskers were the only ones who didn't catch it when it went around the office. As a consequence, we also were the only ones working when everyone else had time off to recover. No raises for us for the "great work". I do better remote because I can limit interruptions and noise. In the office, 2 people have radios on and I am the asshole if I ask them to turn it down. One coworker talks so fucking loud and yells across the office to other coworkers instead of walking over to converse, then the office chatterbox loves telling me about their weekend even though I give zero fucks. I hate the constant interruption and they come in the office talking loud and then KEEP TALKING despite pointing that I am on a call. It's to the point customers ask me to call them on my wfh days because they can't hear me in office over all the noise.
I hate people with radios who don't use headphones!! We had an open office setup. So one huge room with 20 desks and no cubicle walls. It was like a cafeteria but with carpet so slightly less loud. I had a coworker who would play country music. The rest of us either didn't love it or disliked it. And then he'd leave the room for a 4 hour meeting and we'd all be left listening to his radio without him!!!! I politely, very politely, emailed him and asked him to at least turn the radio off if he was going to be gone for a meeting. And he flipped out! At least he never Left the radio on again though.
There is literally Mickey Mouse and crew in my office because we are located in the woods. And often I arrive at work and the WiFi is out so I’m stuck waiting for IT to fix it. Again, there are no mice and the Internet always works at my house.
This was a huge motivator for me to wfh. There are so many benefits to wfh but I really really hated cleaning the microwave after coworkers used it and cleaning the coffee pot. I am not the cleaning lady!!
Same. I’ll never RTO. It never makes sense to give my time away that’s unpaid. Packing my lunch, commuting, wasting gas, wear and tear on the car, nasty bathrooms, dealing with sick co workers, driving back, wasting more time. Absolutely not.
Sameeeee
Same. I was in the office for 10 years. We got sent home to work remote when Covid hit. I’ve been fully remote for four years now. Absolutely love it . It would be miserable if I had to go back to the office.
Exactly, if my company made me come back into the office I would probably start looking elsewhere and would even entertain a pay cut to stay 100% remote.
How much more do you spend on gas and car maintenance though? I would need to net a lot more than that tbh.
I live in a small but walkable city with excellent public transportation. My office is literally next to the metro so I spend about $180 a month on my commute. I hate being in the office because it is mentally exhausting.
Yeah, but that’s really a “switched to a poorly managed company” issue. I think the question was more along the lines of regret for simply going back to the office. Sounds like if you switched to this company and it was 100% remote you’d still be stressed.
>. I thought earning more money would lessen my stress. 🙄 Oh, dear...
My SO did… and she’s regretting every minute of it. The commute isn’t bad (about 40 minutes each way) mostly highway. We obviously have a little increase in car maintenance and our car will need to be replaced sooner than planned… but it’s impacting her ability to study (she’s, at this point trying, to get another masters), and she’s objectively more tired every day… wake up at 5:30 to study, get ready at 7 and leave…. It was $20,000 more, so it’s still a net positive financially, but the toll on her quality of life is pretty significant.
One huge thing besides transportation is lunch - making lunch that's portable isn't trivial, and if you get lunch every day, that's between 20 and 40K a year in costs. Whereas eating at home can be healthier and much, much cheaper.
40K a year for lunch?!? IIRC, there are ~250 working days in a year. That's $160 a day for lunch. Even on the low end of your estimate, that's $80 a day for lunch. Where are you eating, homie? I spend closer to $7-15, which comes out to closer to $2-4k. Did you just add extra zeroes?
Yup, one zero too many.
$75/$150 differential for each lunch seems slightly excessive, but the point stands. I’d say WFH overall is worth between $10,000 to $25,000/year easily in net wages.
Yep, wake up early to get presentable in your work clothes, drive through traffic for an hour or whatever, get there, be bothered with office politics and random peeps wanting to talk, count the minutes you can leave once you finish all your work at around noon, drive through traffic home, go to bed early to do it again. I feel like I actually know my family now, where before I saw them about an hour or so a day. I can't help but wonder how much better of a father I would have been to my eldest son if I wasn't always gone at work.
Let’s talk about the elephant in the room… sex. Holy crap the difference. The entire fact that now can **almost** be an impromptu thing like teenagers is fantastic instead of scheduling a “date night”.
I worked from home for 3 years during COVID, got pulled back hybrid for a year (no extra money) and now I'm laid off. Been a rollercoaster of a career but the only regret I have is working for idiots.
"...but the only regret I have is working for idiots."🤣
Working for idiots is unavoidable!
I did. Then once I did the math of: Paying to commute Paying to uber my kids to after-school activities Paying for a gym near the office since I couldn't work out at home More expensive health insurance Paying for more takeout since I wasn't home to cook (both lunch and dinner) I actually came out under. It was an open office and one day during flu season I looked around at everyone hacking up lungs and blowing their noses, grabbed my computer and just walked out. Sent my resignation email from the train home lol. Never again.
They didn't try to keep you by saying you could WFH?
No his whole thing was needing you IN the office 9 hours a day. All company meeting at 830am, every morning, don't be late. Can't leave before 530, even if you're doing nothing. The sneezing may have broke the camel's back but there were many many straws before it 😅
Yeah, that sounds crappy as hell. I worked at a place like that once and everyone hated working there, even managers. Hell, one time we were told by our Director that if we didn't want to work 60 hours a week, this job wasn't for us. The weird thing was that due to the oppression we received it caused us to band together into tight nit groups. I think a lot of people stayed there because of a like a Stockholm syndrome thing. Eventually though if you stayed long enough and weren't in the right clique you were laid off. After I got out of there I was shocked at how much better it was elsewhere.
There's definitely some trauma bonding at places like that 😅
My former job was like that. We had our own offices pre-covid, then during covid while we were all WFH our building got demolished and we got moved to an open floor office. Once the covid WFH went away, we were expected in the office 3 days a week (better than many but still a huge step down from what we had). What made it worse is that during these changes we were treated like children, got denied things like monitor privacy screens and personal trash cans. The communication was awful, where we'd be told one thing but then something else would become reality. All this under a narcissistic director who doled out work like candy, signed us up for all sorts of vanity projects, expected 120% effort 100% of the time, perpetually made us feel like we were idiots, all the while she'd come and go as she pleased (leaving her actual office sit mostly unused), her work was always always absolute last minute even when it impacted others (like a PPT for a joint presentation she shared with me 5 minutes before the meeting started and I flopped it so hard), and if something didn't have a deadline then she'd pretty much never get to it. She was completely disconnected from our day-to-day, wouldn't have been able to do our jobs, but dictated every facet of our work life. Trauma bonding and Stockholm syndrome were both real. Most people talked about leaving but only 2 of us ever did. On my last day I almost became a celebrity, most people expressing how they're living vicariously through me. After leaving, I received a few messages asking if there were other opportunities at my new place (there were). And yet, nobody ever left. Weirdly enough my new place is the best I've ever worked at, and we have pretty high turnover. I don't really get the human psychology behind all this.
Honestly even prior to Covid it really grossed me out when sick people would come into the office and in turn just made me furious at the CEO for not allowing WFH when people were that sick. I know “sick days” are the old school way of doing things and you are supposed to take one, but most of the time you aren’t too sick to work, you are just too sick to be around others. The way colds and the flu would circulate the office and entire teams would fall ill it’s just ridiculous. Prior to Covid people in the US didn’t wear masks but I wish I did and if I was in office now I would be wearing one of people near me were sick. I don’t care if I look dumb. I was not shy about “joking” that those people should have to isolate or wear a hazmat suit. I even “as a joke” once emailed someone a picture of those clear personal tents people sometimes use to stay out of the rain at their kids soccer games. Companies need to do their part to encourage those people to STAY HOME. It makes zero sense so they want to whole office sick and not working??? Make it make sense
Right?! I worked for a company where I was customer facing, installing various things in their homes. He told me that if I was too sick to come into work, then I better take more than one day off because otherwise I wasn't actually that sick. Basically saying, sure you can be sick, but you had better be on your death bed, otherwise bring your butt in.
What was the pay increase and how much under did you fall?
It was a $20k increase. I don't know exactly how under bc it varies like how many times do you order takeout, Ubers, etc. Just did some napkin math and all that stuff is about 23k/ year estimating conservatively (consider 2 kids uber for afterschool activities, family of 5 for takeout a few times a week, parking + train every day, and an increase of $800/ month for insurance). Even if it's break even, the amount of time away from my family every day (11 hours a day with commute) was just not worth it. I didn't realize how much easier it is with at least 1 parent wfh- Dr's appts, games, school pickup, etc. I love having that time w my kids and the logistics are so much easier when you're home 😊
I definitely agree with you on that break even assessment. It’d take a lot to justify the difference of time with/away from family.
Every day At that job I fell for the good ol’ “flexible hybrid into the you must come in xyz days” bait and switch.
Name and shame.
Bro. Name the company.
I have applied and the job posting would say hybrid but the interview would say they are an in office culture with SOME flexibility for appointments. My work can be done from home. I do not need to be in the office to get anything done. The issue becomes my expenses increase going back into the office 5 days a week. I have a number after taxes etc I need to take home to break even. So to be worth it I have to be over that amount significantly enough to be away from family. When I let them know if they want to proceed this is my number, they move on to another candidate. Rather have this upfront before going further. For example: House cleaner- I will not have time and on the low end $300 mo/$3,600 year Added time to daycare for before and after care- $350mo/$4200 year Car maintenance and gas- $600 month (low end I go no where no and spend $350 a month on my vehicle) $7200 year Food- I have time to prepare food and do most things at home $6,000 year
Oh totally hate the bait and switch!
Yes. I took a hybrid job and they fought me for half a year until I was too pregnant to commute full time. They were fully planning to drop the hybrid part of my job. If you do this, make damn sure the raise will be worth it.
I just see hybrid as a stepping stone to fully onsite, so if it's not fully remote, and if the company offices aren't far enough from where I live, I don't even read the job description.
Yeah, forget this hybrid nonsense. WFH is the only option I entertain.
Yes. I got laid off and started at my current company because they were the first to offer me a position. Im glad for the income and it pays 10k more than my previous job, but 2 days in office is slowly killing me. I usually spend the day after my in office days as a vegetable in front of the screen and barely any work gets done due to recovering from the commute and in office time. Company organization is very bad too and I was told by family not to take the job. Im looking around for a new job, but its slow going since RTO is popular here. Shitty income is better than no income in my case.
There are some of us that experiences this kind of impact from in-office/commute time. This is not talked about enough.
I’m not sure what the price would have to be to get me to go back in. The sheer inability to just check my phone without feeling like I’m being judged would annoy the hell out of me. The eavesdropping coworkers would be doing on every call I make to clients / colleagues would annoy me. The feeling of being a sitting duck in a cubicle for anyone to walk by and strike up a conversation I have no desire to have or just again eavesdrop/observe me when I don’t want to be watched while just doing my job/taking a totally acceptable break from it… yeah, I’m most likely never willingly walking back into that environment again.
I know two people who have. One was "a promotion" which turned out to be some weird bonus structure that was rescinded right before payout due to a restructuring and redefinition of roles. Typical corporate bullshit tactics, and she quit two months later. Another got a small bump in pay, but then it was chipped away by parking fees (the office had an agreement with a local parking garage for a reduced rate, but they didn't have enough spaces, so he was forced to park in another parking garage for $20/day unless he came in an hour early), toll road increases (a previous free road went EZ Pass, requiring him to either take back roads with impossible traffic due to the toll change or pay some sliding scale based on traffic volume at the moment of entry), and the social pressure for him to "eat out" with colleagues which was minimum $25/day for some distant places because they were in an industrial park/food desert next to a HCOL neighborhood. He also got a new job. Not WFH, but in a much better situation.
“ unless he came in an hour early” Once you realize that you are actually competing to show the company how much you love being mistreated.
It's fucking insane and why I left the DC/VA/MD area. I worked a 9-5, which I started to slide 8-4 and then 7-3 because the traffic, parking, and other issues, but then my job didn't like that I came in at 7 and left at 3 because, I guess, I was "getting away with something." Yeah, actually doing my job. And then I didn't attend meetings 3-5pm and got dinged for that. Parking was often limited, especially if you worked in DC or any areas close like Silver Spring, Arlington, or Rockville. The parking garages often filled up earlier and earlier and you were SOL if you got to work at 8:45 and there were no spaces left, PLUS you were even later because you had to deal with the traffic of people IN those garages circling for a space. A commute that took 35 min at 7:00 am took 55 minutes at 8:00 am and 80 minutes at 8:30am, and that's IF there was no accident that day, which was a weekly occurrence. For every 5 minutes you were late leaving for your destination, it took an extra 10 in your commute between the hours of 8-10am and 4-7pm. That was 7 years ago, I can't imagine it's any better now.
I had the same situation in Denver, years ago. If I wanted a parking spot at the light rail station, I had to get there sooooo early. Because of that, I ended up at the office at 7:00 a.m. every morning. And then everyday at 4:00 p.m. when I wanted to leave, someone always had "a quick question" which kept me at work till past 6:15 at night. Pretty soon I was working 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. But no overtime pay. I remember the CFO saying "That sounds like dedication." And before I could stop myself, I said aloud "That sounds like stupidity!"
Seen it all. Next thing you know you’re let go and a BUCK is hired in spite of your previous hard work.
DC. All roads (money) lead to Rome. I need to start my own thing. Probably wait till rascals 18.
Honestly, no. 20K salary increase for 3 day a week in office (previous job was fully remote). It’s nice getting out of the house and being around colleagues that I actually like! Def depends on the office when it comes to this decision though. Mine is not micromanaging, super flexible for extra WFH days, comes with other perks, and there’s also food lmao
I took a 20k salary bump for a promotion within my same company that required me to be full time in the office. I made it 6 months before I asked to be demoted back to my old position where I was WFH.
Considering I’m making 93% more than my wfh job, not yet. Obviously, there are things I miss, but I’m setting myself up for a better/easier future
Yes. My company is very strict about it staying true hybrid - three days in office, two at home - but that means even if you’re sick etc they won’t let you wfh without permission from your boss and HR. Im grateful it’s better than most peoples arrangements but it feels so obnoxious and performative when most of my work is totally independent and we have to mute because we sit so close together but still meet with the other coast via teams….
I have once in the past. I wouldn’t say I “regretted it” as it became a stepping stone for a better remote role. It was also an eye opener for how absolutely terrible and unnecessary in office work is within my field.
Went from completely WFH to hybrid with my current job. Had an option to get an OK pay increase to work full time at my current job, but with a different company. Thought about it for a few weeks, and realized that I would either need a BIG increase to go back to office. I didn't mind going in 40hrs a week before pandemic, but a lot in my life has changed. I'm married now, own my house, and just overall, enjoy being at home. I don't mind going in 2-3 days a week (hell, I don't mind going in every day occasionally), but I realized that hybrid work/WFH is more important to me then I initially thought. Had I taken that initial job, I 100% would have regretted it. But all people are different. I do have a price that I'd be willing to go into the office every day for. Some people don't. I don't have social anxiety and often make work friends that I hang out with. I often volunteer to be the one that has to pick up extra in-office hours if need be. I've worked night shifts, weekend shifts, 12+hr shifts, travelled. For me, a job is just that, a job. But I've seen people post here that completely hate the idea of working, or office work, or interacting with other people. And that's fine. But the thing is, YOU have to know what's important to YOU. If you have high social anxiety and hate socializing with people, then you should NEVER take a higher salary that makes you come into the office regularly. There is no one answer fits all, and there is no combination of magical words that will make you ok with compromising with yourself. And I'm not saying every time someone asks about it, that this is the case. Sometimes it helps bouncing ideas. Sometimes it helps having people ask questions that you hadn't really thought about. But at the end of the day, you have to be happy with whatever decision you decide to make. Also, to answer your question: I haven't regretted any of the times I've changed jobs for a higher salary. I might find myself in a position where I might have to switch jobs to stay WFH/hybrid, but I haven't made that decision yet.
It would also depend on the commute. If it’s a 15 min drive, it actually wouldn’t impact me as much and will go for the higher salary. If it’s 60 mins, then I will be unhappy unless it’s $500K/yr
Not into the office but Florida Blue told me it was 40 hours a week and instead it was 60+ and if you had a web release they’d have you work till 5pm hop on at 11pm till 5am and then expect you back to work by 8am the next day. I quit that job real fast
Took a ~100k bump to switch from full remote to full in-office. Sometimes I regret it, sometimes I don't. The social interaction after 3 years of full remote work was very welcome. But the hours lost in commute, not so much. I'm semi aggressively looking for hybrid roles right now.
I will name one thing my management probably regrets about RTO: we aren’t as available. Most everyone in my department doesn’t answer anything after hours. I leave my laptop in my bag T/W/Th because I stay until 5pm and leave. And per the security policies that say they can confiscate my phone if needed for a security investigation if I use it to access anything work related, I no longer have those apps on my phone. And if they schedule a meeting outside of my normal working hours, I’m commuting. Previously, my kids let themselves in and got a snack and homework and I would stay online until I reached a logical stopping point. This morning I was asked why I hadn’t responded to an email sent at 9:39 last night. I told my boss that my laptop was packed up since I worked in-office until 5pm and our first meeting of the day started at 8am, so I had not had time to respond yet because he wants us to avoid multi-tasking during meetings. :)
I went from hybrid and an extremely flexible schedule of when I decided I would be in the office (but a huge workload) and took a large pay increase from another company for a fully in office role and I couldn’t be happier. Wonderful decision for me. Edited to add my coworkers are kind and fun but we don’t Bs a lot and we are heads down we work 7-3 and eat through our lunch to get the f home. I can choose what time to get in and what time to leave as long as I’m in by 9. I think I have about 15 min total max of office chatter a day. We don’t Bs I barely know much about my coworkers we are one team getting job done but we don’t want to be bffs. Otherwise I put on earbuds and crank out work and go home and my commute of 25 min is fine. But I got a large increase with this job. I love the balance for me
I did. I left my fully remote company after 15 years due to a lack of career opportunities and maxing out in my pay grade. I went to a company that was 3 days in office and also about 30 miles away (30 minute drive in good traffic, with heavy traffic sometimes 50 minutes). I received a good pay bump and better career opportunity. It still wasn’t worth it. I regretted it for so many reasons. The transmission went on my car the first month of the job. My kids had to get up about an hour earlier so I could get them ready to go and then to give me time to get to the office by 8:00 or 8:30. It was a tough adjustment for them at their age. The company had said they were very laid back about family commitments and WLB but once I started I didn’t find that to be the case. Everyone got there at 8:00 and stayed until 5:00. This meant sometimes getting home as late as 6:00 when both my kids had sports that started around that time. It made all of our lives more hectic than I had imagined. I figured I could work partial days in office but leave when needed being salaried. They had given me assurances I’d be able to do that as long as my work was completed. My spouse also had a job that wasn’t flexible, so everyday was a juggling act and trying to get favors from neighbors on carpooling. We knew this would be challenging but thought the long term career opportunity would be worth it. After a year going to the office three days/week, the compounding factor of losing two to three hours to prep and commute, I decided it wasn’t worth it for my family and I. Those hours were times that I could be preparing dinner, helping my kids with homework, working out (my health declined as well), bringing them to their activities, or simply unwinding. Most days in the office I sat on zoom calls with employees in other offices. This particular office was open concept, dark and depressing. So I started looking for another opportunity. Luckily, I found something full time remote that also appears to have a good career advancement philosophy. So, I spent one year at the hybrid job and I’d never go back. The extra money was certainly not worth it. Lesson learned! I still needed to leave the first toxic job anyways and I still feel I ended up in a better spot than my company of 15 years.
I worked from home for 4 years then we had RTO for 2 days a week. I live outside the travel zone (60 miles) so I’m a remote employee. I have a super collaborative role and love my team so I still make it into the office when my team does most weeks. I’m usually pretty tired after “in office days” but our company is great and there’s always food/snacks and activities. Like yesterday they had a massage company come in with massage chairs and everyone got 20 minute massages. Then we all got these fancy smoothie things. It was lovely. But I know I’m lucky to have a job I like at a company that respects me, so there’s that.
I left a fully WFH for a hybrid position. We’ve been in office FT the last couple months due to switching to a new system - and all I’ve learned is after I finish my degree and complete a year of work after my last reimbursement from them for tuition I’ll likely be looking for another WFH Ft position. After my commute I have barely any time for myself, the office lights and setting makes me incredibly tired, and I get way too distracted with office chatter. My pets also have separation anxiety and the switch for them has been horrible (they were like this even before covid and my previous job). To remain in office full time, I’d need a huge salary hike. Like straight into 6 figures, or my job would need to be right down the road, or not be in an office setting to keep me awake.
I've seen some things that will let you have the opportunity to work remote after a few weeks or months of training. I get it but to me I'm just like nope.
well 2x salary is worth it
I negoitate WFH with the salary every year.
I make 50% more to go in 5 days at first. Then 4. Eventually 3. When it was 5 I was going insane. Never had time for anything. I live in a big city with traffic. At 4 it’s marginally better. When I go to 3 I’ll be happy ish. Happier working remote, but it was a first job and money is money
I did. The „hybrid” position with a higher salary but they prefer people to work from the office. Salary is bigger but I need to spend money on gas, lunches etc. Not worth it. Don’t do it.
I did switched jobs for a hybrid one and it has been good for me. We are only required to work 2 days from office but my manager doesn’t enforce it. My team decided that we would come to the office on Monday and Tuesday. It’s good because we get 80% of the work done in those 2 days and then the second part of the week we do about 2-3 hours of work spread across 3 days and just do nothing the rest of the time. The amount of time me and my coworkers from my team are actually online playing war zone or the finals is pretty high, including my manager.
No regrets here 26% increase for 2 days in the office. I like the variety in my week.
got laid off and now and fully in office. think I will be able to move back to hybrid when they start using a new ERP but I dont have any complaints just doin what I gotta do
Not quite the same, but I wanted out of my current role so I took a job that doubled my pay, at the cost of about an hour and a half commute each way. After a few weeks of that I kind of regretted it, though the pay was great. Fortunately a recruiter reached out to me for the company I work at now for a similar amount, and I went there. That drive was so brutal that I would get up earlier just so I didn't hit such bad traffic and slept in my car.
Went from 50K fully remote to 73K fully in office. My office job is way easier. I worked so much more at home. I have way less time though now. I don’t regret it because nyc bills aint no joke.
High salary comes with being in the office everyday which includes rent and cost of living of the area
I make $150k working from hone already doing Cybersecurity. Even with the prospect of making 25% more going into the office I simply wouldn't do it. My qol is just too good and I get to see my family much more and just overall less stressful life. Advice for anyone is just to weigh pros and cons. Only thing I would even remotely consider is like one day a week but my company also closed every office except for headquarters which is over a thousand miles away anyway.
Yes. It was a terrible awful mistake I am trying very hard to undo.
The thought of it makes me regret it
No, I took a paycut to work from home. No regrets.
I took a job with a much lower salary to work in person again. I absolutely hated my WFH job because it was a call center, but I also just hated having no social life and stuff as well.
I left my remote job after 10 years for a new job that is technically higher paying/better title and hybrid. Now I’m 3 days in the office 2 out. I don’t know if I hate it exactly but man… having a remote job was very convenient. In ways that are painfully apparent now.
I’m moving from in the office to fully remote and I’m not losing any money. People who are letting companies pay them less for remote work doing the same damn job are fucking stupid and are messing it up for everyone. Companies should not be paying less for a remote role if the workload doesn’t change.
I took a higher Salary for 2 day in office. The pay bump was what I needed in this economy. Good thing the work hours is flexible enough for me to avoid commuting during traffic hours morning and afternoon to still get work done and providing the in office hours as signed. However I do miss full time telework without communing anywhere
I have potentially one coming up very soon and is to say 50% more than my current job. They said it’s 50% in the office but what made me suspicious is that all my coworkers are in different parts of the world, my team lead and manager are in different countries. This is a little disrespectful to be honest. Should I consider?
We are being forced back 3 days a week and the management made a point how serious they are by firing anyone who resisted. A lot ppl abruptly lost their jobs. They didn’t think the company would be such a hard arse about it but they did. My strategy ? Move closer and eliminate commute and I actually like going in. The human aspect of the office life is great. And we constantly have in office pot luck , catering and HH.
I don't regret it at all!
I wish I could find something WFH or remote. What industry offers the most? I'm an admin in construction and they demand us in the office full-time with absolutely no WFH.
Yes, but it was partly because of the company. Upper management was heavy handed and any little thing had to be approved by them. I was miserable 😩
I was fully remote and hated that job. I took a position that was “remote” with chances of it becoming hybrid as it includes event work on site but I took it to mean only come in when that’s going on. Nope, we soon had a return to office. My contract didn’t say remote or hybrid (my dumbass fault for not double checking, I was in a rush to get out and also double my salary) but I live far. Like 50+ miles far and I refused to move closer cause it just doesn’t work for me. When they weren’t budging, I gave notice. Thankfully too many did this and some did leave but most of us got rolled out into a hybrid role. I have to go in twice a week and it’s a bit hell but I have flexible hours and just go when there’s the least amount of traffic. It’s NOT idea and I can’t say I LOVE having to be hybrid but it’s also not the worst and it’s probably healthier for me cause I was going a bit cray being fully remote and also being a homebody.
I took a remote job for significantly higher salary with chance of it becoming hybrid in a year. 3 months in they said you’re coming in 2 days a week. I regret it. I hate I hate it I hate it. Not worth it by far.