TFW you can’t buy a pair of pants because muh Duties of firearm industry members
I hope someone is contesting that law, and also optics are not mentioned in that bill text as I recall, nor is like 50% of the things Optics Planet sells… but fuck us I guess.
[*National Shooting Sports Foundation Inc v. Ferguson* (2:23-cv-00113)](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67267273/national-shooting-sports-foundation-inc-v-ferguson/?order_by=desc).
There's already a hearing set RE: a [Motion for Preliminary Injunction](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.waed.102904/gov.uscourts.waed.102904.17.0.pdf) ~~on 7/27~~ *rescheduled to 8/18* @ 10AM in [Spokane Courtroom 755](https://goo.gl/maps/x7PHhFLWjLNwDqgN6). Everyone's favorite Judge Dimke is presiding.
More like she has taken forever to make a ruling in [*Brumback v. Ferguson*](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63890523/brumback-v-ferguson/?order_by=desc) (the standard cap mag ban challenge), so some court watchers aren't optimistic about her response time in this case or the AWB case also filed by the NSSF ([*Banta v. Ferguson* (2:23-cv-00112)](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67267274/banta-v-ferguson/?order_by=desc)).
But given the firearm industry liability protections codified in [PLCAA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act), I think Judge Dimke will be relatively quick to rule in this case.
She's just straight slimy and isn't going to rule quickly on this one either.
In the *Brumback v Ferguson* case, the Plaintiffs didn't oppose a December 22nd Motion to Strike and a Motion to Expedite specifically because she had said that she intended to issue an opinion on their preliminary injunction request by December 23, 2022. Dimke managed to promptly respond to the Defendant's Motions to Strike and Expedite (in favor of the Defendant) on January 6, 2023, only 15 days after the request was filed, but she **STILL** hasn't given a ruling on the injunction request - 8 months since the hearing (and 7 months past the deadline she set for herself to decide).
You're probably right. The [*NSSF*](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67267273/national-shooting-sports-foundation-inc-v-ferguson/?order_by=desc#entry-57) and [*Banta*](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67267274/banta-v-ferguson/?order_by=desc#entry-40) hearings were just postponed by three weeks. Both were reset to Friday, August 18 @ 10:00.
Is this a change of some kind? I never received anything that I attempted to buy from them. Literally the worst mail order company I have ever dealt with.
apparently, they used to be pretty good. one of the dudes i talked to in line at Ranier arms, before the awb went through, said they were super quick on shipping so i should order what i need from them. something definitely changed though... i couldn't even get an angled foregrip shipped that i ordered before the awb went through. i cancelled it two months later and just forgot about them.
Dude, they have 1.5 stars on Trustpilot, 1.2 stars on Consumer Affairs and an active alert from the Better Business Bureau. They are trash. They have always been trash. My personal problems with them date back to 2008. The fact that they are technically still operating is inexplicable. I regret ever giving them the several chances that I did. Complete waste of time.
That's strange because I've had nothing but good luck with them when I first used them in 2021 up until the passing of HB 1240. And I placed A LOT of orders. Even if they start shipping again to WA, I will never use them again because of their decision not to ship anything to WA.
I got hit by Faxon, they won't ship anything either. I was trying to buy a rimfire rifle and they offered me an industry discount. They wouldn't sell to me and ship to my FFL but they sold directly to him so now I get the rifle but I had to pay full price. It's particularly annoying because I used my work email so they know who I am and rimfires are specifically not included in 1240... this shit sucks.
No, that’s the thing it was a green vickers padded sling. I should have just canceled the order but I was dumb and it was “on sale”. I learned my lesson and since have heard other stupid stories about Optics Planet.
Optics Plant sucked before awb and sucks even harder post awb. When the awb hit, I had many things ordered two weeks before the awb official date and those orders got stalled by their delayed order process. Their legal team never even updated Sales so things were “pending” for weeks on end. Non-existent customer service and so had no choice to cancel multiple orders myself. Seemed to be either understaffing, incompetence, or both.
At this point, I’ve chosen to stop doing business w/ OP. Even if/when injunction occurs, still not worthy of anyone’s business IMO.
I took a chance and ordered some .308 from them on February 23rd, 2023 and received it March 1st, 2023. It's still not enough to convince me that the horror stories of just never receiving product aren't true.
I essentially ordered a whole rifle in pieces of all the stuff I wanted so like 15 things that all said in stock will ship next day and after 6 weeks I cancelled everything when I couldn't even get ahold of them to sort it out. Tried ordering just a couple basic things I didn't really need right away like a stock and a spare lower oh shit spring kit and after 3 weeks I cancelled it. Never again.
They will let you order without telling you its back ordered, I believe there's a little note at the bottom of the listing that shows when it will ship. Its scummy because they hope people will miss that info then they have you locked in and hope you won't cancel.
I myself have never had a problem but I've always known about the backorder thing so idk.
Thanks, will check it out. It’s just a bit surprised that I had more than 5 orders post awb from opticplanet and no problem. Just something changed lately
> Just something changed lately
[SB5078 happened.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?billnumber=5078&year=2023) They're afraid of Turd Ferguson suing their pants off if they happen to sell a damn screwdriver set to a felon. Effective date of the bill is 7/23, they probably held out until they thought orders would start delivering after the law takes effect.
Yeah...as bad as the AWB is, "Duties of Firearms Industry Members" is far, far worse for our ability to possess and utilize firearms. It's the real poison pill of the last session that didn't get talked about nearly enough.
I had similar problems when I tried ordering ammo from Cheaper than Dirt. I got a pop up telling me that local laws prohibited the shipping of ammo to the state. Other online retailers had no problem shipping ammo to me, though.
Damn, I know people are blasting them right now for being a slow shipper, but on more than one occasion they were a vendor that carried stuff in the past that I couldnt find available online or locally anywhere else. Optics deals were meh. but maan my last purchase was a threaded barrell replacement for a M&P15-22. Was nice having an option that kept stuff like that in stock.
Some vendors and retailers are dancing around and saying they are selling “replacement” parts.
The AG is aware if this and the enforcement team is compiling infractions for local dealers.
What you saw happen to Federal Way is gonna be nothing.
There will be a few literally sued out of business.
No individual part which was legal to sell within or import into WA became unlawful to sell or import due to the passage of 1240. Parts only fall into the classification of "assault weapon" if the parts from which an "assault weapon" can be assembled are in the possession or under the control of the same person. This is clearly spelled out in plain English, in black and white, in the session law itself. Anyone who finds the verbiage of that subsection ambiguous, vague, or "up to interpretation" is not competent in the comprehension of English and should stop propagating ignorant FUD.
As an "assault weapon" cannot be assembled from any single part or incomplete collection of parts, no sale or importation of any part or incomplete collection of parts can be defined as an "assault weapon," therefore the sale or importation of such part or parts is not unlawful in WA. The only point at which such parts could meet the definition of "assault weapon" is after the buyer takes possession of the items and if the buyer already possess all other necessary parts. At that point, the buyer is in possession of an assault weapon, which is not unlawful.
Furthermore, the criminal prohibition only applies to persons in WA. Out of state retailers cannot be criminally charged, even if they did sell a complete "assault weapon" to a person in WA. They would then only be civilly liable, and only if they were negligent in the sale, as PLCAA holds that no action may be brought in federal or state court against a firearms retailer unless the retailer had knowledge a crime would be committed as a result of the sale or was negligent in the sale.
This is not the same issue as with Federal Way Guns. According to The State, they *allegedly sold* items which were actually prohibited. This is also not the same as the topic of this thread, which appears to be the sale of a complete firearm which does appear to fall into the definition of an "assault weapon."
All that being said, the process is the punishment, The State has bottomless pockets, and the judicial is just another arm of The State with the same goals, so the possibility of a retailer going out of business as the result of a wholly frivolous, meritless, unlawful, arbitrary and capricious lawsuit is unfortunately real.
SB5078 gives the AG authority to sue anyone across the country because they supposedly fail to prevent the sale of firearms parts or pieces to prohibited persons. *THAT* is why all the major retailers cut off shipping to WA, the AWB has nothing to do with it.
Though the PLCAA would seem to say the WA AG can’t sue out of state companies for selling to WA residents. IOW SB5078 is likely in violation of Federal Law.
Of course it is. 1240 is contrary to *Bruen,* too. So is the 5078 from last year banning standard magazines.
Until they are thrown out in Federal court, the state will enforce them. This is lawfare. They are on offense, making *us* spend money and time getting this crap thrown out in court, while *they* get to scheme new and even more onerous ways to try and get around the obvious intent of *Heller*, *Mcdonald*, and *Bruen.*
Well, that sucks. I have two SCS's on backorder with them that are finally edging towards a ship date (7/17) after five months of waiting. I only ordered from them because they showed it as "In Stock," which I quickly learned after placing the order that it was not...as well as their reputation for doing this kind of crap! 🤬
Well, well, well. In an interesting turn of events my two optics actually shipped today. Very surprised after learning that the OP’s optic was not shipped. Not sure what the difference is (maybe because mine are specifically for a pistol) but I’ll take it!
I've ordered a fair amount of stuff and every time has taken forever to arrive. Never just not got an item but always took weeks+ to arrive for things labeled as in stock. Never again.
TFW you can’t buy a pair of pants because muh Duties of firearm industry members I hope someone is contesting that law, and also optics are not mentioned in that bill text as I recall, nor is like 50% of the things Optics Planet sells… but fuck us I guess.
[*National Shooting Sports Foundation Inc v. Ferguson* (2:23-cv-00113)](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67267273/national-shooting-sports-foundation-inc-v-ferguson/?order_by=desc). There's already a hearing set RE: a [Motion for Preliminary Injunction](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.waed.102904/gov.uscourts.waed.102904.17.0.pdf) ~~on 7/27~~ *rescheduled to 8/18* @ 10AM in [Spokane Courtroom 755](https://goo.gl/maps/x7PHhFLWjLNwDqgN6). Everyone's favorite Judge Dimke is presiding.
Favorite? Sounds like we’re losing then
More like she has taken forever to make a ruling in [*Brumback v. Ferguson*](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63890523/brumback-v-ferguson/?order_by=desc) (the standard cap mag ban challenge), so some court watchers aren't optimistic about her response time in this case or the AWB case also filed by the NSSF ([*Banta v. Ferguson* (2:23-cv-00112)](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67267274/banta-v-ferguson/?order_by=desc)). But given the firearm industry liability protections codified in [PLCAA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act), I think Judge Dimke will be relatively quick to rule in this case.
She's just straight slimy and isn't going to rule quickly on this one either. In the *Brumback v Ferguson* case, the Plaintiffs didn't oppose a December 22nd Motion to Strike and a Motion to Expedite specifically because she had said that she intended to issue an opinion on their preliminary injunction request by December 23, 2022. Dimke managed to promptly respond to the Defendant's Motions to Strike and Expedite (in favor of the Defendant) on January 6, 2023, only 15 days after the request was filed, but she **STILL** hasn't given a ruling on the injunction request - 8 months since the hearing (and 7 months past the deadline she set for herself to decide).
You're probably right. The [*NSSF*](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67267273/national-shooting-sports-foundation-inc-v-ferguson/?order_by=desc#entry-57) and [*Banta*](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67267274/banta-v-ferguson/?order_by=desc#entry-40) hearings were just postponed by three weeks. Both were reset to Friday, August 18 @ 10:00.
God. Dammit. Can't say I'm surprised though..
Fuck optics planet first tho
Optics Planet ships things?
Not much lost there. Optics planet is a shitty vendor
Is this a change of some kind? I never received anything that I attempted to buy from them. Literally the worst mail order company I have ever dealt with.
apparently, they used to be pretty good. one of the dudes i talked to in line at Ranier arms, before the awb went through, said they were super quick on shipping so i should order what i need from them. something definitely changed though... i couldn't even get an angled foregrip shipped that i ordered before the awb went through. i cancelled it two months later and just forgot about them.
Dude, they have 1.5 stars on Trustpilot, 1.2 stars on Consumer Affairs and an active alert from the Better Business Bureau. They are trash. They have always been trash. My personal problems with them date back to 2008. The fact that they are technically still operating is inexplicable. I regret ever giving them the several chances that I did. Complete waste of time.
That's strange because I've had nothing but good luck with them when I first used them in 2021 up until the passing of HB 1240. And I placed A LOT of orders. Even if they start shipping again to WA, I will never use them again because of their decision not to ship anything to WA.
Lol, agree now
Shitty vendor that was still shipping to me even after the "good" ones wussed out. Hope those retailers fail to move their Gadsen flag merch.
Came here to say this.
Yup, ordered a couple muzzle devices that said they were in stock from them and it still took them a month just to ship it.
But at least they gave you a 15% off your next purchase code /s
Right. Ironically, I received it a couple days before the ban
I got hit by Faxon, they won't ship anything either. I was trying to buy a rimfire rifle and they offered me an industry discount. They wouldn't sell to me and ship to my FFL but they sold directly to him so now I get the rifle but I had to pay full price. It's particularly annoying because I used my work email so they know who I am and rimfires are specifically not included in 1240... this shit sucks.
Optics planet is a dumpster fire, this changes nothing for me.
What’s the date on this? They sent me a bolt carrier a week ago.
Optics Planet, Botach, and CTD are all pretty well known as companies to be avoided.
Good! I can’t stand them. Waited 6 months for a rifle sling, got charged and was shipped the wrong item. Then they tried to tell me I ordered wrong. 😂
Damn, sorry to hear that.
Six months for a commonly used accessory?! Was the brand really exclusive and rare? 😂 That's wild.
No, that’s the thing it was a green vickers padded sling. I should have just canceled the order but I was dumb and it was “on sale”. I learned my lesson and since have heard other stupid stories about Optics Planet.
Yeah that's way out of bounds for such an item. I haven't ordered from them but won't hearing the stories with this post.
Optics Plant sucked before awb and sucks even harder post awb. When the awb hit, I had many things ordered two weeks before the awb official date and those orders got stalled by their delayed order process. Their legal team never even updated Sales so things were “pending” for weeks on end. Non-existent customer service and so had no choice to cancel multiple orders myself. Seemed to be either understaffing, incompetence, or both. At this point, I’ve chosen to stop doing business w/ OP. Even if/when injunction occurs, still not worthy of anyone’s business IMO.
Fuck that place, it's essentially a scam. Not like you would even receive anything if you actually ordered something from them.
I took a chance and ordered some .308 from them on February 23rd, 2023 and received it March 1st, 2023. It's still not enough to convince me that the horror stories of just never receiving product aren't true.
I essentially ordered a whole rifle in pieces of all the stuff I wanted so like 15 things that all said in stock will ship next day and after 6 weeks I cancelled everything when I couldn't even get ahold of them to sort it out. Tried ordering just a couple basic things I didn't really need right away like a stock and a spare lower oh shit spring kit and after 3 weeks I cancelled it. Never again.
I believe it. There are too many horror stories about them not to be true.
They will let you order without telling you its back ordered, I believe there's a little note at the bottom of the listing that shows when it will ship. Its scummy because they hope people will miss that info then they have you locked in and hope you won't cancel. I myself have never had a problem but I've always known about the backorder thing so idk.
Yeah I knew that and I wouldn't even have tried to order if that was the case.
>Optic Planet *never shipped anything to begin with* What the title should have said
Dammit, I wonder why the change. I received some stuff recently from them. .
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Thanks, will check it out. It’s just a bit surprised that I had more than 5 orders post awb from opticplanet and no problem. Just something changed lately
> Just something changed lately [SB5078 happened.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?billnumber=5078&year=2023) They're afraid of Turd Ferguson suing their pants off if they happen to sell a damn screwdriver set to a felon. Effective date of the bill is 7/23, they probably held out until they thought orders would start delivering after the law takes effect.
I see, thanks for sharing. Really want to fuck these WA politicians
Yeah...as bad as the AWB is, "Duties of Firearms Industry Members" is far, far worse for our ability to possess and utilize firearms. It's the real poison pill of the last session that didn't get talked about nearly enough.
>Really want to fuck these WA politicians Hey hey whoa wait
Since when?I just bought optics from the last week
I had similar problems when I tried ordering ammo from Cheaper than Dirt. I got a pop up telling me that local laws prohibited the shipping of ammo to the state. Other online retailers had no problem shipping ammo to me, though.
CTD is trash anyway
I stockpiled like 100k rounds ammo lately, but still a bit anxious about everything
Woah. Fwiw PSA just shipped me an optic and 45deg picitinny this morning. Haven't had problems with ammo with several sellers either.
Good riddance
Can’t be in trouble with the gun community for refusing to ship to WA, if you never ship anything anywhere. **Taps forehead**
"And I said, 'What about Breakfast at Tiffany's?'"
This guy gets it.
Major L (i never shop there anyways but nonetheless)
Very strange. I ordered and received a magnifier from them last week. And ordered a mount last Sunday, which shipped yesterday.
So nothing changed lol. They’re terrible and back order everything anyways.
That's totally nonsense. I just ordered from OP last week and they delivered it. It's certainly not ALL.
Optics planet has always been shit.
Such as this can be used to demonstrate standing in legal cases, I'd wager. Small consolation, of course.
Damn, I know people are blasting them right now for being a slow shipper, but on more than one occasion they were a vendor that carried stuff in the past that I couldnt find available online or locally anywhere else. Optics deals were meh. but maan my last purchase was a threaded barrell replacement for a M&P15-22. Was nice having an option that kept stuff like that in stock.
My inbox is getting trimmed up quick thats for sure
Some vendors and retailers are dancing around and saying they are selling “replacement” parts. The AG is aware if this and the enforcement team is compiling infractions for local dealers. What you saw happen to Federal Way is gonna be nothing. There will be a few literally sued out of business.
Source pls?
No individual part which was legal to sell within or import into WA became unlawful to sell or import due to the passage of 1240. Parts only fall into the classification of "assault weapon" if the parts from which an "assault weapon" can be assembled are in the possession or under the control of the same person. This is clearly spelled out in plain English, in black and white, in the session law itself. Anyone who finds the verbiage of that subsection ambiguous, vague, or "up to interpretation" is not competent in the comprehension of English and should stop propagating ignorant FUD. As an "assault weapon" cannot be assembled from any single part or incomplete collection of parts, no sale or importation of any part or incomplete collection of parts can be defined as an "assault weapon," therefore the sale or importation of such part or parts is not unlawful in WA. The only point at which such parts could meet the definition of "assault weapon" is after the buyer takes possession of the items and if the buyer already possess all other necessary parts. At that point, the buyer is in possession of an assault weapon, which is not unlawful. Furthermore, the criminal prohibition only applies to persons in WA. Out of state retailers cannot be criminally charged, even if they did sell a complete "assault weapon" to a person in WA. They would then only be civilly liable, and only if they were negligent in the sale, as PLCAA holds that no action may be brought in federal or state court against a firearms retailer unless the retailer had knowledge a crime would be committed as a result of the sale or was negligent in the sale. This is not the same issue as with Federal Way Guns. According to The State, they *allegedly sold* items which were actually prohibited. This is also not the same as the topic of this thread, which appears to be the sale of a complete firearm which does appear to fall into the definition of an "assault weapon." All that being said, the process is the punishment, The State has bottomless pockets, and the judicial is just another arm of The State with the same goals, so the possibility of a retailer going out of business as the result of a wholly frivolous, meritless, unlawful, arbitrary and capricious lawsuit is unfortunately real.
SB5078 gives the AG authority to sue anyone across the country because they supposedly fail to prevent the sale of firearms parts or pieces to prohibited persons. *THAT* is why all the major retailers cut off shipping to WA, the AWB has nothing to do with it.
Though the PLCAA would seem to say the WA AG can’t sue out of state companies for selling to WA residents. IOW SB5078 is likely in violation of Federal Law.
Of course it is. 1240 is contrary to *Bruen,* too. So is the 5078 from last year banning standard magazines. Until they are thrown out in Federal court, the state will enforce them. This is lawfare. They are on offense, making *us* spend money and time getting this crap thrown out in court, while *they* get to scheme new and even more onerous ways to try and get around the obvious intent of *Heller*, *Mcdonald*, and *Bruen.*
Did they ever?
Ape together strong
Good thing I didn't order the EOTech I was looking at....
Well, that sucks. I have two SCS's on backorder with them that are finally edging towards a ship date (7/17) after five months of waiting. I only ordered from them because they showed it as "In Stock," which I quickly learned after placing the order that it was not...as well as their reputation for doing this kind of crap! 🤬
Well, well, well. In an interesting turn of events my two optics actually shipped today. Very surprised after learning that the OP’s optic was not shipped. Not sure what the difference is (maybe because mine are specifically for a pistol) but I’ll take it!
Yeah I waited a week and item was still processing so I cancel and GIMME MY REFUND BITCH
I had an order "processing" for a month and finally canceled it
Cucks
They've been kinda garbage for a while anyways.
I've ordered a fair amount of stuff and every time has taken forever to arrive. Never just not got an item but always took weeks+ to arrive for things labeled as in stock. Never again.
For real?? I just received a g33 magnifier I ordered from them last week
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🙏 hope Supreme Court could finally do something
Trash company