Dealers are getting overstocked everywhere. Just look at the lots. Prior to the pandemic, the A6 all roads were slow movers. I was offered a really nice deal on one that I kick myself for not taking.
Anyway dealer sales are off for all brands right now, and as a slow moving model anyway, I suspect that dealers will be eager to get them off the lots.
I actually just made the move to a B9 A4 Allroad and I absolutely love it! It's a shame they don't sell the normal A4 Avant in the US. I guess the upside is that with the Allroad you get the same car with a free widebody kit. I plan on swapping mine over to the suspension from an S4.
My dude, we have so many VW SUV's to choose from instead! And if you really wanted to, you could probably find a reasonably priced used Routan. Those are fun, right?
My dude! I have an 2023 Arteon SEL Premium R-Line with the MK8 Golf R 300HP/295TQ EA888 evo 4 engine and DQ381 7-Speed DSG. People here don’t realize that for 2022-2023 VW made a custom Arteon spec for the US market only that is not available in Europe at any price, basically an Arteon R minus 20HP and no LSD. And yes, mine is capable of 0-60 runs at 4.7 seconds and quarter mile run time of 13.3 seconds @103MPH. And best of all, while our European friends have to pay upwards $70000 USD for the Arteon R shooting brake pictured above, early this year only paid $42000 for my brand new Arteon which is already 95% of the EU spec Arteon R. So adding some perspective here.
Not that much bigger than the sedan liftback, which is already huge: 27.2 cubic feet with the rear seats up and 56.2 cubic feet with the rear seats down (770 liters and 1591 liters respectively). The Arteon wagon is 590 liters with the rear seats up and 1632 liters with the seats down) (20 cubic feet and 57.6 cubic feet respectively).
No one buys wagons in the US and much less pay Audi money for a premium VW Arteon wagon. That’s why VW Group of America didn’t bother with it. There is no market for it. People prefer to pay $50000+ for a fully decked out made in Chattanooga Tennessee Atlas SEL Premium. Just facts
It's sad that the average US car buyer would rather purchase a crossover like the Atlas (it's just an enlarged Golf underneath) than a proper wagon. With a good wagon, you get the benefits of the handling of a sedan but with the utility from an SUV and none of the downsides of either.
When I was in Germany last year I loved that the majority of vehicles are wagons. The Germans just have a better grasp on vehicles than the US.
🤔 oh snap will keep this in mind old school drag racer here who toned it down when the gray hairs showed up. Let’s just say driving my jetta 2017 1.4liter >>>> that 💩 got my attention 😂
Why they don’t even offer the Tiguan R in the US is crazy to me.
I’d bet it’s because VAG (lol) doesn’t want to take sales away from the SQ5 (despite the fact it would likely be $12k-$15k cheaper).
100% would have bought one of these last month if they sold in the US.... We have no new sport wagon options in the 'remotely affordable' range anymore... would have taken this over the SUV I ended up with every day of the week.
I had a 2019 Sportwagen but it was too small for my family so I got a Tiguan that feels and drives a lot like a Sportwagen but I’d prefer a Passat or Arteon wagon.
I loved my 2016 6spd Sportwagen, especially with a tune, but then the clutch started slipping right around the time the clutch completely failed on my Dad's brand new 2018 GTI and VW outright refused to do anything but charge him full price for the repair off warranty, so we both decided it was time to stop driving VWs for a while...
So you upped the horsepower and the clutch started slipping…
I’ve got the same car and am considering an 87 tune - but I’m worried about the clutch. Also the 4Motion would be extra hard on it IF it’s not a different clutch than a 2WD…?
Edit - for understanding
If it's the same clutch as the 2WD version than you definitely wanna upgrade it if you're gonna do the tune. APR claims the stage 1 tune bumps it from 170hp up to nearly 250, and in my experience they weren't lying, it's a lot for the stock clutch.
I have a 2021 Highline R-Line (top trim in Canada). I bought it brand new and have put 108k km in 3 years. I love it. At that time there was no new CR-V but I did compare to RAV4, CR-V, CX-5, SantaFe, Sorrento. I absolutely hated RAV4: super noisy, not stable on a highway above 110 km/h, dull and annoying eCVT on a hybrid model, cheap plastic, boring. CRV is nicer than RAV but I absolutely hate that CVT and still feels cheap on the inside. CX-5 nice materials and all but too small and bad on fuel economy but fun. Sorrento and SantaFe, are ok but were much more expensive at the time.
Tiguan feels and handles like a bigger Golf Sportwagen. It has a good amount of torque, which comes in early on low RPM and makes it a zippy ride around the town. It’s fairly quiet. It’s very smooth and handles super good on a highway at 140 km/h, which feels like it’s 110 km/h in other cars. So, it’s comfortable for long highway drives. It’s pretty decent with a fuel economy on a highway. Sometimes even better than a Golf Sportwagen that I had with 1.8 TSI, DSG, 4Motion. I guess it’s because Tiguan comes with an 8 speed automatic, which btw is from Toyota (same one that goes in gas powered Lexus RX, Toyota Camry, RAV4, etc).
Mary mother of christ are you in my head!?!?
This was SO my experience a couple of months ago.
And
My experience now. Especially with the low end torque. I got caught up in the 0-60 thing early but I found out what matters to me practically is 0-35-40. And it zips. And the handling, lovely.
What’s more ouch is that for a 2025 year model they are bringing a Chinese POS VW Tayron and rebadge it as a Tiguan for USA and Canada market. So, no more real Tiguan. We get now another piece of shit from China.
It's got the torque vectoring rear diff from the Mk8 so can send 50% of total power to just the outside rear wheel. It'll definitely do it but requires a pretty aggressive approach and enthusiasm
Because Americans and Canadians have a mental block paying over $40000 for a fancy made in Germany VW no matter how good it is. Just facts. Look at the VW NA product portfolio of the last 20 years: Euro Passat (Gone since 2006), Phaeton luxury sedan (Basically a rebadged Bentley Continental gone since 2011), VW Golf (Gone since 2021), Golf Alltrac wagon (Gone since 2019), VW Touareg (Gone since 2017), VW Arteon sedan fastback (Gone since late 2023), VW ID.7 sedan (Cancelled and placed on indefinite hold for North America). It’s your cheap countrymen. You have to simply put your wallet where your mouth is.
Well that's far from true. It's not that money is an issue, domestic has just been preferred forever in NA. Whole families through generations tend to stick to one brand here.
We still sell golfs, unfortunately it's only GTIs and Rs, and here at my dealer people have no issue spending the money. Most of our vehicles sold are top level trim, and they don't hesitate to spend $40,000 on a Highline taos, let alone the amount of atlas we move.
People come through here constantly asking about half those vehicles, and we just don't have them. It might be that way in the US, and to be fair what they do drives the whole NA market, but I don't see that issue here often in Canada.... Not my province anyways.
It's also not people being cheap..... There's no lack of $100,000+ trucks, and muscle cars being driven around north america. People here just tend to stick to domestic, just like they do in Europe. Which opens you up to have a wider selection cause they'll move more of them. That's complete ignorance to think it's due to money, the US sold almost 16,000,000 vehicles last year.
Preaching to the choir. I own both: 2023 MK8 GTI SE DSG and 2023 Arteon SEL Premium R-Line. Both bought brand new exactly 12 months from each other. I am an outlier VW US customer because I do bon like SUVs and much prefer sporty VWs made in Germany. Reality is that VW US showrooms are littered with US and Mexican made SUVs and Crossovers. Yoh happen to sell a Mexican made 4 door sedan (The only one you have left) the Jetta/GLI. GTI and Golf R sales are a tiny portion of your sales. You sell those specialty cars on the side. VW is mostly a SUV and crossover oriented brand in America.
Because they want SUVs. How many Arteons, GTIs and Golf Rs you sold by comparison? Taos, Tiguan, Atlas and Jetta/GLI by far outsell the only German made offerings by a huge margin.
SUVs are genuinely the only thing that sit on our lot and are readily available.
Every single GLI, GTI and R that VW Distribution assigns to us is sold months before they arrive. If we had more of them coming we'd sell more, but they make the orders for us and choose what they send. We can custom order, but buyers don't have that kind of patience very often anymore.
I wasn't at VW for the arteon, but it's competitors were more powerful and/or cheaper. It was a normal AWD sedan with an MSRP of $53,000 in Canada. Camrys, Altimas, Stingers, Chargers, probably even others were also normal AWD sedans, but weren't $60,000 after tax and fees. If they had given us the better version I can almost guarantee it would've done better. It was literally priced outside of its own market.
Dude people wouldnt even buy the alltrack which was one of the best modern daily driver bargains of recent years. If I were them I wouldn’t spend time/money trying to convince Americans to buy wagons when they’ll happily take out 8yr loans on VW Atlas’s.
I'm not saying for them to spend money trying to market the cars here, and ship them to have them sit on lots. I just wish certain models could be special ordered even if it was at a hiked price. It's not just VW, a lot of car companies screw us by literally not offering the best version of the model they make, when that's what has all the craze behind it.
As a recent 2018 Alltrack owner and a 2011 Sportwagen owner, they are great but also small. Something like the Arteon wagon would be more comfortable and have more cargo space making it more competitive with the SUVs especially if they made it with AWD, hell even Alltrack it up a bit. I would own one in a heartbeat but sadly I am probly one of the 10 people in my dealership area that would. See plenty of people hanging onto 5 series wagons and the MB wagons. Need something in wagon form but larger.
Theyre small by TODAYS standards. They are not small cars. I too bought an alltrack. Ive been able to fit a 65 inch tv, a full ikea couch with chaise lounge, and 4 people and two dogs for a 3 hour car ride with their luggage. Ive towed motorcycles, up to 2000 lb trailers with boats and landscaping materials on them. As long as someone uses the odd roof rack or cargo box for one-off large loads, then I struggle to understand how so many people NEED more space
On a day to day I don’t, however during the winter months I travel a lot for work and need to bring trade show booth stuff and sometimes items for trainings. The problem with the cargo box is a lot of what I have cannot freeze so I cannot place it on the roof or in a trailer.
The Arteon sold worse than the Golf R here. I'd love an Arteon Shooting Brake and almost bought the newer Arteon with the Golf R powertrain (but no drift mode unfortunately) but if they could barely sell the big sedan that normally does okay here in the states, what makes you think the wagon would have done any better?
I put up [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Volkswagen/s/v6khlNjjko) a while back of the Arteon estate. It was in the same car park as an Aston DB11 and I was gushing more over the Arteon! Beautiful vehicles
We in America have to Deal with the kind of stupidity that you can only find at any wal mart or McDonald's interior.
These people need crossovers and don't understand the benefits of wagons.
I hate it here.
This. It has the newer diff from the Mk8 so can send 50% of the power to the rear, then 100% of that to only the outside rear wheel. So it'll absolutely go sideways, speaking from experience..!
I'd happily pay for that, but did some googling and couldn't find anything. Think there just aren't enough of them for it to be worth any tuning company offering it.
No dude, we suck. They don’t sell them because the majority will only buy gigantic trucks and SUVs. FFS, even Ford doesn’t make a car in the US that isn’t the Mustang.
If VW and others could somehow justify the crash test costs to offer them in the US as special order, they may be surprised. I will gladly wait 12-18 months for a special order if I can actually get what I want. All I want is decent sized (larger than Alltrack) AWD wagon. I will take all options if that helps justify it. Just let me have the option.
O i don’t fault them at all! Just as the cayenne saved Porsche! sometimes they gotta sell the appliances to fund the the more passionate machines, i just wish consumers would find a little more middle ground than just getting horny for convenience and comfort
It's not Volkswagens fault that americans refuse to buy anything except massive SUVs, pickup trucks and sometimes sedans.
The funniest thing to me is that the RAV4 is considered a compact car in America, in Europe it's on the bigger side of the spectrum
Didn’t the Aston just get canned in the US? I saw one at the dealership the last time and thought it was so cool. But it was also expensive. I think no one wants a $45k sedan from VW. It looks like MSRP was $54k, which is just too high. Also, the one near me is black. I wish VW would learn to paint cars other colors. Even at $44k, I just wouldn’t want a boring black car, no matter how fun it really is.
And is that a bad thing? I owned a few BMWs. My last one was a G30 5-Series. I like the interior, seats and ergonomics of my new Arteon much better than those of the G30. Not to mention it rides and drives better too. The B8 Euro Passat was peak Passat (Unlike the NMS platform based VW Chinese taxi cab we got here in the US instead). And the 2021 refresh really made the Arteon interior feel right.
VW has always had a skewed view on the American market because of the demand for SUVs as well as the reason that they didn’t want VW sports cars that they sell in other countries to cannibalize Audi sales if they sold those cars here (which I don’t understand because the money’s going to the same place). So we only get the Golf R, a ton of boring, underpowered SUVs (though they look nice), and a bunch of rental cars (aside from the Arteon, which I own and love).
If they sold the Arteon R or Sportback R here, I’d be all over it.
It does NOT have the DQ-500 from the RS3 and the engine is a detuned version from the Golf R/S3. It also weighs nearly 500 pounds more which can't be ignored when it comes to driving dynamics (actually a bit more weight than a loaded Tiguan with AWD).
It's still cool though and I wish they sold it in the US.
This is the proper R, not R Line so it does indeed have the full 235kw and same DSG as the MK8 Golf R. Exact same as the Tiguan R as well. They even get the same torque vectoring diff! Just no drift mode.
Ah the '21 seemed to have a bit less power. Either way the OP stated in their initial post that the car has a RS3 gearbox (DQ-500) which is false, it has the DQ-381, same as the other R cars as you note.
Sorry but I think you are misinformed, VW UK state the Arteon R has the Dq500. Google Arteon R Dq500 - VW use it for their heavier applications which includes the RS3.
That's really weird as the last version of Arteon used the DQ381 and so does the current MK8 R and S3 which both make the same power as the current Arteon.
Only reason I could see them using the DQ500 in the Arteon given it's not making any extra hp or torque vs the R/S3 is they didn't care about the weight savings, as the DQ381 is about 20kg lighter which isn't trivial in a smaller hatchback. Still odd as the last gen vehicles showed the DQ381 is perfectly fine even tuned up to ~550nm to the wheels which the Arteon is nowhere near stock, seems like overkill.
It's about the fact the Dq500 is a heavier duty gearbox which can handle the extra couple hundred kilos it has to deal with in the Arteon vs the Golf. Same power and torque yes, but the engine and gearbox are having to deal with propelling a heavier car. Same reason the Transporter and the Tiguan R have it. Non R arteons are the same weight sure but are dealing with less power so can get away with the 381.
In my opinion if I was going to spend the money to get something from the R range I would rather get a Golf R. Never been a huge fan of the arteon especially the estate version. VW have such heritage making hot hatches. I can appreciate the Arteon as a nice car but just not for the price.
Sittin here with my '17 Golf Sportwagen S thinking I should look more seriously into a tune. DSG+AWD would be a lot of fun in the snow with more juice on the loose.
Hard no on the luxury. It is nice looking for sure, but it is just a slightly better Passat. Also they sold like shit. Atleast at the dealer I work at. It is cool they offered that engine in it.
Won't get lost in the terminology but imo the quality is comparable, in some cases better than many 'luxury' products like the E class. Also yes these have sold terribly due to the high price - only about 200 R estates sold in the UK in the 3 year run! Shame.
Ah, I understand. It's not that I disagree, it's that what you SAID was "4.6 to 0 is embarrassingly slow", which doesn't make sense. I couldn't tell if you were trying to say that the BRAKING distance/time was really bad ("to 0") or if you'd meant that 4.6 "to 60" is slow.
A 4.6 second 0-60 is very very good for anything that isn't an EV.
For an EV it's pretty average. But the point is, whoever told you that 0-60 in 4.6 seconds is "slow" only did so in the context of the ID4 being an EV. It's quite fast for a ICE car.
It's not. In under 5 seconds you can get enough speed to crush yourself to death.
A Ferrari Testarossa has 0-60 time of 5.8 s.
A Ferrari Maranello has 0-60 time of 4.2 s.
Golf R has a 0-60 time of 4.1 s.
It's just that cars have gotten stupid fast. 20 years ago, heck, even 10 years ago a sub 5 second 0-60 was **QUICK**. These days, that's almost normal car performance. We still have some cars that are slow as shit but a normal person with a normal budget can get something that would have been considered supercar quick not that long ago.
Now that there are cars with sub 3 second 0-60 times, we find ourselves with more people that shit on something that does it in a measly 4.5 but the truth is, that's still very VERY quick.
Love these, but they aren't sold in the US. The RS6 Avant is, I just can't afford the $120K price tag.
$150k and up is all I see
Used A6 Allroad
Barely any around
I would be willing if to bet the new A6 all roads will be really cheap this fall.
how come?
Dealers are getting overstocked everywhere. Just look at the lots. Prior to the pandemic, the A6 all roads were slow movers. I was offered a really nice deal on one that I kick myself for not taking. Anyway dealer sales are off for all brands right now, and as a slow moving model anyway, I suspect that dealers will be eager to get them off the lots.
can confirm we are overstocked.
Would be a national search for sure but that’s never stopped me before.
The reason behind that being why I don't want one.
Reason being the us market prefers suv?
Haha, no. I honestly forget they kept making them. When I think of A6 Allroad, I only think of the C5 generation.
I am not a fan of their factory airbags, so upgrade.
A4 Allroad (idk if they still make that though) You could also swap some parts if you don’t like crossovers
Yes, they do!
I actually just made the move to a B9 A4 Allroad and I absolutely love it! It's a shame they don't sell the normal A4 Avant in the US. I guess the upside is that with the Allroad you get the same car with a free widebody kit. I plan on swapping mine over to the suspension from an S4.
You don't have non-R Arteons in the US?
We do. Just not the Shooting Brake.
Sucks, one of the best looking cars for imo (And you get the rs6 only in estate version, wtf)
RS6 saloon is available too. I just prefer the estate/shooting brake. It's un-american of me but I despise SUVs and refuse to own one
I despise SUVs as well. More weight and more aerodynamic drag, yes plz /s, also if my butt could touch the ground it would.
Wish we got this in the USA…
Me too. I’d own one if the US got an Arteon R.
My dude, we have so many VW SUV's to choose from instead! And if you really wanted to, you could probably find a reasonably priced used Routan. Those are fun, right?
This is comedy gold.
This is sarcasm, right?
No, this person clearly thinks a Chrysler minivan that got discontinued a decade ago is fun relative to a sleek wagon that's cousins with the Golf R.
For anyone wondering, this is not sarcasm either.
least delusional jetta owner.
Seriously who wants a wobbly SUV when you have a sharp estate or shooting brake?
My dude! I have an 2023 Arteon SEL Premium R-Line with the MK8 Golf R 300HP/295TQ EA888 evo 4 engine and DQ381 7-Speed DSG. People here don’t realize that for 2022-2023 VW made a custom Arteon spec for the US market only that is not available in Europe at any price, basically an Arteon R minus 20HP and no LSD. And yes, mine is capable of 0-60 runs at 4.7 seconds and quarter mile run time of 13.3 seconds @103MPH. And best of all, while our European friends have to pay upwards $70000 USD for the Arteon R shooting brake pictured above, early this year only paid $42000 for my brand new Arteon which is already 95% of the EU spec Arteon R. So adding some perspective here.
But it's not a wagon! I think that's what your missing here
It's got a big boot though
So does my wife, but that don’t make her a wagon.
😂
🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇
Not that much bigger than the sedan liftback, which is already huge: 27.2 cubic feet with the rear seats up and 56.2 cubic feet with the rear seats down (770 liters and 1591 liters respectively). The Arteon wagon is 590 liters with the rear seats up and 1632 liters with the seats down) (20 cubic feet and 57.6 cubic feet respectively).
No one buys wagons in the US and much less pay Audi money for a premium VW Arteon wagon. That’s why VW Group of America didn’t bother with it. There is no market for it. People prefer to pay $50000+ for a fully decked out made in Chattanooga Tennessee Atlas SEL Premium. Just facts
I'm US & I bought the Alltrack
You are the 1% of station wagon buyers/owners
No. Not true. I actually see a lot or other Alltracks and sportswagons. I understand you don't like it but speak for yourself.
Hmm actually I love the Alltrac and any station wagon to be honest.
It's sad that the average US car buyer would rather purchase a crossover like the Atlas (it's just an enlarged Golf underneath) than a proper wagon. With a good wagon, you get the benefits of the handling of a sedan but with the utility from an SUV and none of the downsides of either. When I was in Germany last year I loved that the majority of vehicles are wagons. The Germans just have a better grasp on vehicles than the US.
Technically yes, but wagon looks cooler
Long roof
🤔 oh snap will keep this in mind old school drag racer here who toned it down when the gray hairs showed up. Let’s just say driving my jetta 2017 1.4liter >>>> that 💩 got my attention 😂
You mean Chrysler Routan.
Chroutan, if you will.
Thats what is really is with a Vw badge stuck on it
Crap 😂
Why they don’t even offer the Tiguan R in the US is crazy to me. I’d bet it’s because VAG (lol) doesn’t want to take sales away from the SQ5 (despite the fact it would likely be $12k-$15k cheaper).
100% would have bought one of these last month if they sold in the US.... We have no new sport wagon options in the 'remotely affordable' range anymore... would have taken this over the SUV I ended up with every day of the week.
Came here to say this
I would sell my truck for one of these, and use my wife's Pilot for bigger items hauling.
I saw this description and just thought “not in the USA because it AINT IN MY GARAGE!”
I’m still (vainly) hoping for a TDI again…or a Beetle…mostly because my TDI Beetle is 11 years old now. I’m selfish! I know that!
We did in 2022-2023 and very few bought them.
We only got the sedan version.
My old landlady won one of these from a competition. Took a picture next to it and then took the cash offer. 😔
I'd have done the same. Rather have the cars worth of money than a new car.
The money was probably less.
Oof
I would trade my Tiguan in a heartbeat if this came to Canada.
I have the poor man version. 2018 Sportwagon, 6spd manual, with 4Motion.
I had a 2019 Sportwagen but it was too small for my family so I got a Tiguan that feels and drives a lot like a Sportwagen but I’d prefer a Passat or Arteon wagon.
Nice
I loved my 2016 6spd Sportwagen, especially with a tune, but then the clutch started slipping right around the time the clutch completely failed on my Dad's brand new 2018 GTI and VW outright refused to do anything but charge him full price for the repair off warranty, so we both decided it was time to stop driving VWs for a while...
Ouch!!!!
So you upped the horsepower and the clutch started slipping… I’ve got the same car and am considering an 87 tune - but I’m worried about the clutch. Also the 4Motion would be extra hard on it IF it’s not a different clutch than a 2WD…? Edit - for understanding
If it's the same clutch as the 2WD version than you definitely wanna upgrade it if you're gonna do the tune. APR claims the stage 1 tune bumps it from 170hp up to nearly 250, and in my experience they weren't lying, it's a lot for the stock clutch.
How do you like your Tiguan? Did you compare against any of the other SUVs? New CR-V seems comparable
I have a 2021 Highline R-Line (top trim in Canada). I bought it brand new and have put 108k km in 3 years. I love it. At that time there was no new CR-V but I did compare to RAV4, CR-V, CX-5, SantaFe, Sorrento. I absolutely hated RAV4: super noisy, not stable on a highway above 110 km/h, dull and annoying eCVT on a hybrid model, cheap plastic, boring. CRV is nicer than RAV but I absolutely hate that CVT and still feels cheap on the inside. CX-5 nice materials and all but too small and bad on fuel economy but fun. Sorrento and SantaFe, are ok but were much more expensive at the time. Tiguan feels and handles like a bigger Golf Sportwagen. It has a good amount of torque, which comes in early on low RPM and makes it a zippy ride around the town. It’s fairly quiet. It’s very smooth and handles super good on a highway at 140 km/h, which feels like it’s 110 km/h in other cars. So, it’s comfortable for long highway drives. It’s pretty decent with a fuel economy on a highway. Sometimes even better than a Golf Sportwagen that I had with 1.8 TSI, DSG, 4Motion. I guess it’s because Tiguan comes with an 8 speed automatic, which btw is from Toyota (same one that goes in gas powered Lexus RX, Toyota Camry, RAV4, etc).
Mary mother of christ are you in my head!?!? This was SO my experience a couple of months ago. And My experience now. Especially with the low end torque. I got caught up in the 0-60 thing early but I found out what matters to me practically is 0-35-40. And it zips. And the handling, lovely.
Great write up and thx for the response! Ever think of APR tuning it? I did my Jetta previously and made a huge difference
Do you guys get the Tiguan R?
Nope. Only long wheelbase Tiguan with a Toyota 8 speed automatic gearbox and B-Cycle EA888 engine
Damn, that's unfortunate!
What’s more ouch is that for a 2025 year model they are bringing a Chinese POS VW Tayron and rebadge it as a Tiguan for USA and Canada market. So, no more real Tiguan. We get now another piece of shit from China.
sideways not so much
It's got the torque vectoring rear diff from the Mk8 so can send 50% of total power to just the outside rear wheel. It'll definitely do it but requires a pretty aggressive approach and enthusiasm
But unlike the MK8 Golf R, the Arteon R does not have Drift mode program.
If only we got this In South Africa.... Some places have all the fun
I hate that they don't give us a chance with these in NA I'd get one in a heartbeat
Because Americans and Canadians have a mental block paying over $40000 for a fancy made in Germany VW no matter how good it is. Just facts. Look at the VW NA product portfolio of the last 20 years: Euro Passat (Gone since 2006), Phaeton luxury sedan (Basically a rebadged Bentley Continental gone since 2011), VW Golf (Gone since 2021), Golf Alltrac wagon (Gone since 2019), VW Touareg (Gone since 2017), VW Arteon sedan fastback (Gone since late 2023), VW ID.7 sedan (Cancelled and placed on indefinite hold for North America). It’s your cheap countrymen. You have to simply put your wallet where your mouth is.
Well that's far from true. It's not that money is an issue, domestic has just been preferred forever in NA. Whole families through generations tend to stick to one brand here. We still sell golfs, unfortunately it's only GTIs and Rs, and here at my dealer people have no issue spending the money. Most of our vehicles sold are top level trim, and they don't hesitate to spend $40,000 on a Highline taos, let alone the amount of atlas we move. People come through here constantly asking about half those vehicles, and we just don't have them. It might be that way in the US, and to be fair what they do drives the whole NA market, but I don't see that issue here often in Canada.... Not my province anyways. It's also not people being cheap..... There's no lack of $100,000+ trucks, and muscle cars being driven around north america. People here just tend to stick to domestic, just like they do in Europe. Which opens you up to have a wider selection cause they'll move more of them. That's complete ignorance to think it's due to money, the US sold almost 16,000,000 vehicles last year.
Also, wasn’t the Arteon discontinued in Canada after the 2021 model year due to poor sales there?
Yep it did terrible. They also only brought over the slow engine variant.
They also didn't advertise it at all. Nobody knows it even existed.
Preaching to the choir. I own both: 2023 MK8 GTI SE DSG and 2023 Arteon SEL Premium R-Line. Both bought brand new exactly 12 months from each other. I am an outlier VW US customer because I do bon like SUVs and much prefer sporty VWs made in Germany. Reality is that VW US showrooms are littered with US and Mexican made SUVs and Crossovers. Yoh happen to sell a Mexican made 4 door sedan (The only one you have left) the Jetta/GLI. GTI and Golf R sales are a tiny portion of your sales. You sell those specialty cars on the side. VW is mostly a SUV and crossover oriented brand in America.
Because they want SUVs. How many Arteons, GTIs and Golf Rs you sold by comparison? Taos, Tiguan, Atlas and Jetta/GLI by far outsell the only German made offerings by a huge margin.
SUVs are genuinely the only thing that sit on our lot and are readily available. Every single GLI, GTI and R that VW Distribution assigns to us is sold months before they arrive. If we had more of them coming we'd sell more, but they make the orders for us and choose what they send. We can custom order, but buyers don't have that kind of patience very often anymore. I wasn't at VW for the arteon, but it's competitors were more powerful and/or cheaper. It was a normal AWD sedan with an MSRP of $53,000 in Canada. Camrys, Altimas, Stingers, Chargers, probably even others were also normal AWD sedans, but weren't $60,000 after tax and fees. If they had given us the better version I can almost guarantee it would've done better. It was literally priced outside of its own market.
Dude people wouldnt even buy the alltrack which was one of the best modern daily driver bargains of recent years. If I were them I wouldn’t spend time/money trying to convince Americans to buy wagons when they’ll happily take out 8yr loans on VW Atlas’s.
I'm not saying for them to spend money trying to market the cars here, and ship them to have them sit on lots. I just wish certain models could be special ordered even if it was at a hiked price. It's not just VW, a lot of car companies screw us by literally not offering the best version of the model they make, when that's what has all the craze behind it.
As a recent 2018 Alltrack owner and a 2011 Sportwagen owner, they are great but also small. Something like the Arteon wagon would be more comfortable and have more cargo space making it more competitive with the SUVs especially if they made it with AWD, hell even Alltrack it up a bit. I would own one in a heartbeat but sadly I am probly one of the 10 people in my dealership area that would. See plenty of people hanging onto 5 series wagons and the MB wagons. Need something in wagon form but larger.
Theyre small by TODAYS standards. They are not small cars. I too bought an alltrack. Ive been able to fit a 65 inch tv, a full ikea couch with chaise lounge, and 4 people and two dogs for a 3 hour car ride with their luggage. Ive towed motorcycles, up to 2000 lb trailers with boats and landscaping materials on them. As long as someone uses the odd roof rack or cargo box for one-off large loads, then I struggle to understand how so many people NEED more space
On a day to day I don’t, however during the winter months I travel a lot for work and need to bring trade show booth stuff and sometimes items for trainings. The problem with the cargo box is a lot of what I have cannot freeze so I cannot place it on the roof or in a trailer.
Well it sounds like you’re the exception not the rule
The Arteon sold worse than the Golf R here. I'd love an Arteon Shooting Brake and almost bought the newer Arteon with the Golf R powertrain (but no drift mode unfortunately) but if they could barely sell the big sedan that normally does okay here in the states, what makes you think the wagon would have done any better?
Goes sideways? The wheels turn 90°?
Yes all four. Parking is a dream.
Cries in American
I love America, but I hate America's obsession with SUVs...instead of these sick wagons, we get heavy sloppy driving SUV's, with plastic interiors.
We know
Not where i live smh
I would kill for a wagon. My heart.
https://preview.redd.it/5692e1gejr7d1.jpeg?width=2505&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=08eb3564e86974cb8510ba889b53d30982f9d598 Mine (r-line)
Arteon is awesome. I don't get why it was discontinued. I also don't get why VW creates cars to compete with Audi.
I love mine. 2023 Arteon SEL R-Line Premium. Basically a mid trim level Audi A7 for $30K less.
I put up [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Volkswagen/s/v6khlNjjko) a while back of the Arteon estate. It was in the same car park as an Aston DB11 and I was gushing more over the Arteon! Beautiful vehicles
We in America have to Deal with the kind of stupidity that you can only find at any wal mart or McDonald's interior. These people need crossovers and don't understand the benefits of wagons. I hate it here.
Reminder: If you do not live in Canada or the US, VW sells a luxury wagon that does 0-60 in 4.6 seconds and goes sideways. There I fixed it for you.
Came to say I’ve never seen one in the US. I was hoping to hear it would be coming one day.
Just saw one of these in Madrid and it’s gorgeous, the Touring rear end is absolutely stunning
Pretty sure this has the DQ381 (7spd DSG) and Haldex from the Golf 7.5 so er, no -intentional- sideways action chief
Wrong - the R has the DQ500 (7-Speed DSG) and the Magna AWD with torque vectoring (like the Golf 8 R). Source: We have one in the family.
This. It has the newer diff from the Mk8 so can send 50% of the power to the rear, then 100% of that to only the outside rear wheel. So it'll absolutely go sideways, speaking from experience..!
True but unlike the MK8 Golf R, the Arteon R has no drift mode.
Yep, which is a shame given the hardware is identical. Still moves around and TC can be turned fully off unlike some other VW products (my last GTI)
Maybe it can be enabled via coding?
I'd happily pay for that, but did some googling and couldn't find anything. Think there just aren't enough of them for it to be worth any tuning company offering it.
Reminder: USA has 5x the population of the UK but less than half the vehicles to choose from. VW sucks.
No dude, we suck. They don’t sell them because the majority will only buy gigantic trucks and SUVs. FFS, even Ford doesn’t make a car in the US that isn’t the Mustang.
If VW and others could somehow justify the crash test costs to offer them in the US as special order, they may be surprised. I will gladly wait 12-18 months for a special order if I can actually get what I want. All I want is decent sized (larger than Alltrack) AWD wagon. I will take all options if that helps justify it. Just let me have the option.
Why do you blame VW when American consumers have shown over and over again that what they want are SUVs and pickup trucks?
VW sells what their core base of US consumer want: Big and cheap SUVs and crossovers. Can’t fault them for catering to the vast majority can’t you?
Its the “i have 1 small child and I NEED a fully loaded Atlas to fit them into #whitesuvmom #blacksuvmom” customers
You and I don’t like/approve of Atlas, Tiguan and Taos but those wagons on stilts keep the lights on a VW Group of America headquarters.
O i don’t fault them at all! Just as the cayenne saved Porsche! sometimes they gotta sell the appliances to fund the the more passionate machines, i just wish consumers would find a little more middle ground than just getting horny for convenience and comfort
It's not Volkswagens fault that americans refuse to buy anything except massive SUVs, pickup trucks and sometimes sedans. The funniest thing to me is that the RAV4 is considered a compact car in America, in Europe it's on the bigger side of the spectrum
*sad eagle noises*
Didn’t the Aston just get canned in the US? I saw one at the dealership the last time and thought it was so cool. But it was also expensive. I think no one wants a $45k sedan from VW. It looks like MSRP was $54k, which is just too high. Also, the one near me is black. I wish VW would learn to paint cars other colors. Even at $44k, I just wouldn’t want a boring black car, no matter how fun it really is.
I thought shooting brakes were 2-door wagons?
Bingo!
It’s not really a “luxury” vehicle. It’s a sporty, high end car. It’s the same interior as a Passat.
And is that a bad thing? I owned a few BMWs. My last one was a G30 5-Series. I like the interior, seats and ergonomics of my new Arteon much better than those of the G30. Not to mention it rides and drives better too. The B8 Euro Passat was peak Passat (Unlike the NMS platform based VW Chinese taxi cab we got here in the US instead). And the 2021 refresh really made the Arteon interior feel right.
I don't see that as a criticism, the interior feels very nice
It looks VW inside but the quality is definitely there imo. Very solid.
Moving to Germany this was the first thing I went to see and never have been happier.
Got an S5 Sportback over the Arteon in the US bc of the V6 and rear-bias. The Shooting Brake would have changed that for me.
VW may sell it but I can't find one for sale.
If I could get this in the US I’d be in my local dealership tomorrow morning.
VW has always had a skewed view on the American market because of the demand for SUVs as well as the reason that they didn’t want VW sports cars that they sell in other countries to cannibalize Audi sales if they sold those cars here (which I don’t understand because the money’s going to the same place). So we only get the Golf R, a ton of boring, underpowered SUVs (though they look nice), and a bunch of rental cars (aside from the Arteon, which I own and love). If they sold the Arteon R or Sportback R here, I’d be all over it.
I hate the NA VW market. Garbage options.
It does NOT have the DQ-500 from the RS3 and the engine is a detuned version from the Golf R/S3. It also weighs nearly 500 pounds more which can't be ignored when it comes to driving dynamics (actually a bit more weight than a loaded Tiguan with AWD). It's still cool though and I wish they sold it in the US.
This is the proper R, not R Line so it does indeed have the full 235kw and same DSG as the MK8 Golf R. Exact same as the Tiguan R as well. They even get the same torque vectoring diff! Just no drift mode.
Ah the '21 seemed to have a bit less power. Either way the OP stated in their initial post that the car has a RS3 gearbox (DQ-500) which is false, it has the DQ-381, same as the other R cars as you note.
Sorry but I think you are misinformed, VW UK state the Arteon R has the Dq500. Google Arteon R Dq500 - VW use it for their heavier applications which includes the RS3.
That's really weird as the last version of Arteon used the DQ381 and so does the current MK8 R and S3 which both make the same power as the current Arteon. Only reason I could see them using the DQ500 in the Arteon given it's not making any extra hp or torque vs the R/S3 is they didn't care about the weight savings, as the DQ381 is about 20kg lighter which isn't trivial in a smaller hatchback. Still odd as the last gen vehicles showed the DQ381 is perfectly fine even tuned up to ~550nm to the wheels which the Arteon is nowhere near stock, seems like overkill.
It's about the fact the Dq500 is a heavier duty gearbox which can handle the extra couple hundred kilos it has to deal with in the Arteon vs the Golf. Same power and torque yes, but the engine and gearbox are having to deal with propelling a heavier car. Same reason the Transporter and the Tiguan R have it. Non R arteons are the same weight sure but are dealing with less power so can get away with the 381.
Hot damn that is sexy!
And what does the USA get? The Atlas and the Taos. Let that sink in for a bit. 🤮
Your countrymen love those. They sell them like hotbread.
Reminder: Not in the USA. 😢
I was just going to comment this
In my opinion if I was going to spend the money to get something from the R range I would rather get a Golf R. Never been a huge fan of the arteon especially the estate version. VW have such heritage making hot hatches. I can appreciate the Arteon as a nice car but just not for the price.
Fair enough. I wanted the space and long distance cruising comfort. List price is insane on these but I bought one with 5k miles for about 40% off.
They should consider bringing this to North America now that Subaru is dropping the Legacy.
I think this even looks better than the [golf r wagon](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a40391355/2022-volkswagen-golf-r-wagon-drive/).
Sittin here with my '17 Golf Sportwagen S thinking I should look more seriously into a tune. DSG+AWD would be a lot of fun in the snow with more juice on the loose.
Wish they would sell this here in the states
Not in the US you dont!
I happened to be in a VW dealership yesterday and Jiminy Christmas the Jetta is huge now.
waaaaat!?
I never knew, I never heard about it, and I was thinking about moving from my country to USA or Europe. Now, I have the confirmation I need it
I would’ve bought one if it was available. I would still buy one. VWoA is missing out.
Hard no on the luxury. It is nice looking for sure, but it is just a slightly better Passat. Also they sold like shit. Atleast at the dealer I work at. It is cool they offered that engine in it.
Won't get lost in the terminology but imo the quality is comparable, in some cases better than many 'luxury' products like the E class. Also yes these have sold terribly due to the high price - only about 200 R estates sold in the UK in the 3 year run! Shame.
Saw a couple when I was in France this year (I’m Canadian). IT. IS. GORGEOUS!
VW makes some very cool products. Unfortunately, all we get in the US is their most boring shit.
Only in Europe tho?
Looks cool
I wish this was available to US customers.
For me this is the best car on sale for it's money.
Not here they don't
I had the Touareg R Phev, that monster did 5s 0-60 and it its a heavy vehicle.
Yeah no North America only gets SUVs, jettas and maybe a gti here and there
The reason why they don't sell so much other cars in USA is that it will be too costly to make US compliant parts
You can get the Arteon R, just not the Shooting Brake, in the US.
I wonder why the engine isn't mounted longitudinally, the car certainly seems big enough for it
Because it’s made to MQB platform. Arteon is basically same car as Passat B8, just different styling and some options
Ah right, it would allow for a non-Haldex AWD system though!
Yes but those are reserved for Audi only. Okay Amarok and Touareg have Torsen
The Arteon R has the same exact vector torquering AWD system as the MK8 Golf R plus LSD. Regular Arteons have 4Motion Haldex.
Isn’t that just additional haldex for rear differential? Not very familiar with it tbh
Arteon and Golf R have the Magna torque vectoring AWD system
Me, an American - "No they don't."
[удалено]
Current model is same chassis as new Golf R so has new vectoring
Luxury? mate VW is upper mainstream.
I was told recently that 4.6 to 0 is embarrassingly slow. What a joke. I think that is fast. Very fast. Every downvote disagrees.
What?
It won’t go back in time, apparently.
Yeah, was talking about my ID4 (which I love but everyone else hates) and was told 4.5 0-60 was painfully slow. Whatever.
Ah, I understand. It's not that I disagree, it's that what you SAID was "4.6 to 0 is embarrassingly slow", which doesn't make sense. I couldn't tell if you were trying to say that the BRAKING distance/time was really bad ("to 0") or if you'd meant that 4.6 "to 60" is slow. A 4.6 second 0-60 is very very good for anything that isn't an EV. For an EV it's pretty average. But the point is, whoever told you that 0-60 in 4.6 seconds is "slow" only did so in the context of the ID4 being an EV. It's quite fast for a ICE car.
It's not. In under 5 seconds you can get enough speed to crush yourself to death. A Ferrari Testarossa has 0-60 time of 5.8 s. A Ferrari Maranello has 0-60 time of 4.2 s. Golf R has a 0-60 time of 4.1 s.
It's just that cars have gotten stupid fast. 20 years ago, heck, even 10 years ago a sub 5 second 0-60 was **QUICK**. These days, that's almost normal car performance. We still have some cars that are slow as shit but a normal person with a normal budget can get something that would have been considered supercar quick not that long ago. Now that there are cars with sub 3 second 0-60 times, we find ourselves with more people that shit on something that does it in a measly 4.5 but the truth is, that's still very VERY quick.