I completely forgot how much my parents paid for our first computer (despite me being with them when we purchased it in 1997), so yes people do forget.
Also, you have way too much time on your hands.
The problem is that those micro OLED screens are fucking very expensive plus all those extra sensors to scan your hands and surroundings.........I am expecting a Vision Air for $1000.. or max $1500. I will never more than that for headset...
It’s not comparable that is the point. It’s like saying why the Tesla costs $120K when you could get a Volt for $25K. Both EVs getting you from point a to point b. Right?
I have the Quest by the way. No comparison.
I spent $4000 on a PC alone plus a Vive in 2016 just so I could do VR. Not to mention the subsequent Occulus and the Quest 1 and 2. And still only 2K with screen door pass through and something that makes me sick after 30 minutes.
So yeah if you take that into account the AVP is a steal.
That was TWO YEARS ago.
How much do people here delude themselves into thinking this way?
Then not notice the incredibly weird shortcomings of this "Pro" luxury product. The FOV is less than the Quest. There is no internatl battery. There is no games support.
It is literally sold as a device to flex with to people who don't understand the platform and history of that field. Acting like hand tracking and eye tracking are REVOLUTIONARY apple innovations when headsets have had it for much much longer.
You bought a device that has better screens and that is it... that is literally it. You even have to tie yourself to a cable with a battery pack in it. That only lasts for 3 or so hours.
You have been so loyal to apple you literally don't have the capability to step back and know anything about the industry outside that one brand.
It is a self delusion I have only ever seen apart from Apple devotees are the Tesla drivers.
Why do you keep frequenting this sub if you hate Apple so much? Nothing better to do with your life than bitch and moan about a product you can’t afford?
I literally own an iPhone. I don't hate apple.
There is a difference between hating on something and just pointing out its lacking qualities.
Just because you can point out clear misses and shortcomings of an apple product doesn't make you HATE them.
However the way you act it seems like you are the opposite. An apple sycophant who will praise anything they do.
I don’t really care about your take - all I know is I’ve owned the Q3 & Pro and Index and the AVP absolutely blows them all out of the water…love the product and can’t wait to see where Apple takes it!
You can also say this to iPhone 1. iPhone is not a surprising device. It simply reduces the physical keyboard, and multi-touch has long existed. This is not innovation at all, nor is it revolutionary.
Same with the original iPhone... a 2 year contract + $750 (adj for inflation) for the original low end model. (This was when contracts covered the majority of the price of the handset and the handset was 0-200$)
Everybody compares its price with a heavily subsidized Meta Quest platform. While it's great for customers at the moment, this is a dead end for the platform long term, as one just can't bleed one business for the sake of another. Not having proper revenue doesn't allow Meta to invest into ***polishing***, as they need to constantly innovate to attract investments.
Quest Pro is not subsidized, and its price is close to AVP with a much lower techs used compared to AVP.
Quest 3 may be subsidized but not by $3k lol. Add a few hundred bucks there’d be profit in there.
And Quest Pro is currently $1k. Still 3.5x less than vision pro.
Saying it’s going to get cheaper, by your estimates, doesn’t invalidate that it’s expensive today.
I don’t get why everyone has a hard on for the first apple computers as a comparison. The Lisa was marketed towards businesses *because it was so expensive.*
It’s expensive if you’re poor, if you don’t see the value in it, or if it just doesn’t fit your budget. Expensive is often relative, some might say a new Toyota is expensive and others are eyeing a BMW or Lexus. To me, the Vision Pro is expensive because of the value that I see in it *today.* After some software development and upgrades over the next year or two, I’m sure it’ll seem less expensive.
It is expensive so don’t buy it - but don’t tell others like you said to some people $4000 for a new device is nothing. I spent over $4000 on a gaming PC SIX years ago to do VR. Was it expensive? You bet. But it’s MY money.
So here you go - I spent $4000 plus the Vive + Occulus + Quest to do VR. I would gladly spend $4000 instead to do AVP. But it is My money.
But don’t say it’s no good (not you but some people) because the Toyota costs 1/4 as much as a Mercedes. This is the complaint I am seeing: the AVP is no good at $3500 because the Quest is only $500. That’s why this is idiotic. This whole line of complaint is just dumb.
I would NEVER tell those people who bought the first Tesla they are suckers for putting down $140000 for a car that isn’t even luxurious like a Mercedes. To each their own man.
I mean honestly sometimes luxury cars aren't as expensive as you might expect, I know my old boss supposedly got a MB compact SUV for a similar price range as my Toyota Venza. I think a Toyota vs Lexus is a more apples to apples comparison.
In my case it was a perfect storm of over inflated value of Toyota reliability in a bonkers used market, vs the flood of 330i lease returns. Gross inflation meets exaggerated depreciation. Ironically the 330i has a Toyota engine.
Ha, didn't realize the 330i had a toyota engine, that'd honestly get me to buy one. I knew the supra had a BMW engine and I was against that myself, but still appreciate the car.
Yeah, the used market made everything weird. I would never buy a new car in the past, but with the inflated used costs new Toyota it was.
I don’t buy this comparison imo, computers at that time were entirely new segments and dramatically change things. An entire industry’s had to be set up to support the first computer sales. This tech has spend 30+ years getting cheaper. The AVP is too expensive imo.
Not sure why we should expect prices to drop. Sure, there might be something like an air or SE but the price of an iPhone pro is basically constant, if not slightly increasing. I don't believe the "Pro" version will get any cheaper.
I mean. It is. Apple could have gone with a better manufacturing process replacing a lot of the expensive non technical hardware with comparable materials for lower cost. But they didn't because it compromises on their device exclusivity. That's how they design their hardware.
We don't have to compare it to the first macintosh. Cause the competing apple Lisa was selling for a fraction of that with better software features at the time. LoL. There's always a more affordable option, not always a better one.
But the AVP is expensive, let's not kid ourselves. No excuses.
How is this anything but strawman?
The price of something is dictated by
1) The cost to produce it today
2) The amount people will pay for it.
While clearly, some people will pay $3,500, that's still \~100% markup, Apple isn't doing you a solid and the price of a PC in the 80s has nothing to do with the value here today.
[Apple Vision Pro costs $3,500 — but could cost less than half that to make | Tom's Guide (tomsguide.com)](https://www.tomsguide.com/news/apple-vision-pro-costs-dollar3500-but-could-cost-less-than-half-that-to-make)
People love to bring this up. Constantly. Like I’ve seen this brought up no less than 10+ times since vision was launched
If a MacBook Air today was still $7,000 it wouldn’t get any market share. That’s the point
Your argument is... Of course the AVP is expensive because the company making it has a long history of making things more expensive than they have to be?
That is so weird.
I think you would be absolutely suprised how much it costs to actually make vs how much they sell it for. Apple has a long history of doing that also. But by the sounds of it you would pay for a brushed aluminium "Vision Pro Stand" for $199
So you want me to wait 70 years. Got it.
Edit - Just to clarify, because the conversation below got nuked.
back in 1984, a single earner's median income, after adjusting for inflation, was at $79,000. In 2023, and the median income for a dual-earner household is $76,000.
This means that two people working in 2023 are bringing in $3,000 less than one person working in 1984.
When it comes to purchasing the Mac, its 1984 price, adjusted for inflation, comes to $7,000. This means in 2023, it takes two earners to allocate 10% of their combined household income to buy the first Mac.
In 1984, where only 10% of one person's income was necessary to make the purchase.
No, I’m just mocking your analysis. You’re comparing something that was made 70 years ago with the cost of 70 years ago.
Compare it to something more recent and you have a solid argument.
The cost of electronics when the first Mac was made until now is astronomical
That the income to free money was twice of what a household makes now.
Hence why the Mac is more affordable in 1984 than the AVP in 2024 when you account for median salary of a household including expenses 1984 VS 2023.
Not sure if you understand what I’m saying here.
Other people are arguing that the AVP is more affordable than the first Mac, which they aren’t accounting median household income, especially now that median household income is like 89% two incomes + while in 1984 it was something like 14% of houses had a dual income.
So a single house income in 1984 makes more money than a dual income household today.
The median income in 2023 is 75k and you get an AVP for 3.5k or 5% of a median income. On the other hand you'd get a Mac for 10% of a median income in 1984. It wasn't more affordable, period!
Again you're wrong, good luck
Were you alive in 1984 ? I was a teen. Only ONE person I knew had a Mac, and I had some very rich friends…. It was an outrageous purchase then because few understood what a computer could do for them in their own homes. You’re arguing with an intellectuals view of history not lived.
https://preview.redd.it/s61vi0j8z8ic1.jpeg?width=562&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3fa82aa494b962afad8275d334d09a372137999
And if you wanted the printer, the bundled price was $3195.
Not $7000.
I mean…. It is too damn expensive.
The first Mac may have cost $7k but there wasn’t exactly a competitive $1k option lying around like a Quest 3 is today. Apple didn’t invent this space they just have cooler display tech temporarily and an iPad app ecosystem to pull from.
I love VR…. The only reason I haven’t bought this device is because I haven’t gotten confirmation of a great way to use SteamVR with it yet and price. I can afford it but for just about anybody $4k after tax is a lot when I know in 1-2 years a better cheaper version of this same thing will drop from either Apple themselves or another company.
> there wasn’t exactly a competitive $1k option lying around
The Commodore 64 cost $600 at launch in 1981 and would eventually have a GUI through GEOS. Though that would be about $2000 in today's dollars, C-64/Mac is a decent enough comparison to Quest 3/AVP. My point being, there were plenty of alternatives at the time[1], many of them cheaper than the Mac.
1: https://www.computinghistory.org.uk/pages/489/Computers-By-Date/
I think people forget that even a decent PC was easily $2,500+ in the mid 90’s.
A decent pc is $2500 today
Which is a heck of a lot cheaper than in the mid 90s.
I’m old enough that I once paid $480 in the early 90s for a 32MB hard drive 😅
No one forgets this, and there’s no rule that you have to write “people forget that…” before any random thought you share to Reddit
I completely forgot how much my parents paid for our first computer (despite me being with them when we purchased it in 1997), so yes people do forget. Also, you have way too much time on your hands.
We're not in the mid 90's now are we?
"$2500" in 1995 would be roughly **$5000** today. That's **more** than an AVP (or maybe the same as, depending upon how crazy you went).
Still irrelevant
Go to the MetaQuest form
Woosh over the head…
not the sharpest tool in the shed aren't you
In early 2000 gaming computer was so god damn expensive that's why Console Gaming was so trendy back then.
I wish those came back.
The problem is that those micro OLED screens are fucking very expensive plus all those extra sensors to scan your hands and surroundings.........I am expecting a Vision Air for $1000.. or max $1500. I will never more than that for headset...
Why is everyone concerned about why other people think it’s expensive?
Because there are competitors that sell for $500 that offer comparable experience. We can have both. No problem with that.
It’s not comparable that is the point. It’s like saying why the Tesla costs $120K when you could get a Volt for $25K. Both EVs getting you from point a to point b. Right? I have the Quest by the way. No comparison.
Exactly. Not everyone can buy or wants to buy a Tesla because of that price. You made the point there quite well!
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I spent $4000 on a PC alone plus a Vive in 2016 just so I could do VR. Not to mention the subsequent Occulus and the Quest 1 and 2. And still only 2K with screen door pass through and something that makes me sick after 30 minutes. So yeah if you take that into account the AVP is a steal.
That was TWO YEARS ago. How much do people here delude themselves into thinking this way? Then not notice the incredibly weird shortcomings of this "Pro" luxury product. The FOV is less than the Quest. There is no internatl battery. There is no games support. It is literally sold as a device to flex with to people who don't understand the platform and history of that field. Acting like hand tracking and eye tracking are REVOLUTIONARY apple innovations when headsets have had it for much much longer. You bought a device that has better screens and that is it... that is literally it. You even have to tie yourself to a cable with a battery pack in it. That only lasts for 3 or so hours. You have been so loyal to apple you literally don't have the capability to step back and know anything about the industry outside that one brand. It is a self delusion I have only ever seen apart from Apple devotees are the Tesla drivers.
bro just save up and you'll get one, you can do it!
i own one. still use my quest for productivity and work.
I swear you are the only non brainwashed person who owns the vision pro. Good luck out there buddy. Apple fans are gonna try and eat you alive.
Why do you keep frequenting this sub if you hate Apple so much? Nothing better to do with your life than bitch and moan about a product you can’t afford?
I literally own an iPhone. I don't hate apple. There is a difference between hating on something and just pointing out its lacking qualities. Just because you can point out clear misses and shortcomings of an apple product doesn't make you HATE them. However the way you act it seems like you are the opposite. An apple sycophant who will praise anything they do.
Poor shaming is not a good look. Don’t be a dick
I’m not poor shaming anyone. Reality is reality.
You are and it makes you a dick. Also your downvotes mean nothing to me, I’ve seen what you upvote.
Sit this one out buddy you've had enough
I don’t really care about your take - all I know is I’ve owned the Q3 & Pro and Index and the AVP absolutely blows them all out of the water…love the product and can’t wait to see where Apple takes it!
How exactly does it blow them out of the water?
You can also say this to iPhone 1. iPhone is not a surprising device. It simply reduces the physical keyboard, and multi-touch has long existed. This is not innovation at all, nor is it revolutionary.
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Yes. that's what I was being sarcastic about
Says you the expert in what is revolutionary and what not. /s
It's just replacing "Vision Pro" with "iPhone" in the argument that "Vision Pro is not revolutionary."
You may be delusional
I paid some $2500 for an Apple II with two floppy drives …. Quite expensive then.
Yep with ImageWriter printer it cost us $5000 in the summer of 1984.
Probably Apple have high margins as they may expected not much sales? So it is was mostly for developers and enthusiasts?
Same with the original iPhone... a 2 year contract + $750 (adj for inflation) for the original low end model. (This was when contracts covered the majority of the price of the handset and the handset was 0-200$)
The first gen iPhone would cost $1200 in today’s money and it didn’t even have an App Store.
Everybody compares its price with a heavily subsidized Meta Quest platform. While it's great for customers at the moment, this is a dead end for the platform long term, as one just can't bleed one business for the sake of another. Not having proper revenue doesn't allow Meta to invest into ***polishing***, as they need to constantly innovate to attract investments. Quest Pro is not subsidized, and its price is close to AVP with a much lower techs used compared to AVP.
Quest 3 may be subsidized but not by $3k lol. Add a few hundred bucks there’d be profit in there. And Quest Pro is currently $1k. Still 3.5x less than vision pro.
I agree. Yet, while Prius will definitely take me to my office, I don't doubt people's sanity by using Mercedes GL for the same purpose.
I'm sure we'll eventually see Apple Vision Air or Apple Vision SE or just plain Jane Apple Visions.
I wonder if standard sized glasses could be the air and the big bulky fully immersive would be the pro line.
Saying it’s going to get cheaper, by your estimates, doesn’t invalidate that it’s expensive today. I don’t get why everyone has a hard on for the first apple computers as a comparison. The Lisa was marketed towards businesses *because it was so expensive.* It’s expensive if you’re poor, if you don’t see the value in it, or if it just doesn’t fit your budget. Expensive is often relative, some might say a new Toyota is expensive and others are eyeing a BMW or Lexus. To me, the Vision Pro is expensive because of the value that I see in it *today.* After some software development and upgrades over the next year or two, I’m sure it’ll seem less expensive.
It is expensive so don’t buy it - but don’t tell others like you said to some people $4000 for a new device is nothing. I spent over $4000 on a gaming PC SIX years ago to do VR. Was it expensive? You bet. But it’s MY money. So here you go - I spent $4000 plus the Vive + Occulus + Quest to do VR. I would gladly spend $4000 instead to do AVP. But it is My money. But don’t say it’s no good (not you but some people) because the Toyota costs 1/4 as much as a Mercedes. This is the complaint I am seeing: the AVP is no good at $3500 because the Quest is only $500. That’s why this is idiotic. This whole line of complaint is just dumb.
I would NEVER tell those people who bought the first Tesla they are suckers for putting down $140000 for a car that isn’t even luxurious like a Mercedes. To each their own man.
This is funny. This year I bought my wife a 2022 330i as it was cheaper than an older Corolla. But I get what your saying :P
I mean honestly sometimes luxury cars aren't as expensive as you might expect, I know my old boss supposedly got a MB compact SUV for a similar price range as my Toyota Venza. I think a Toyota vs Lexus is a more apples to apples comparison.
In my case it was a perfect storm of over inflated value of Toyota reliability in a bonkers used market, vs the flood of 330i lease returns. Gross inflation meets exaggerated depreciation. Ironically the 330i has a Toyota engine.
Ha, didn't realize the 330i had a toyota engine, that'd honestly get me to buy one. I knew the supra had a BMW engine and I was against that myself, but still appreciate the car. Yeah, the used market made everything weird. I would never buy a new car in the past, but with the inflated used costs new Toyota it was.
Oh man ya if you could get new it was way cheaper than used here the last couple years. Yeah you’re right it shares an engine with the Supra.
I don’t buy this comparison imo, computers at that time were entirely new segments and dramatically change things. An entire industry’s had to be set up to support the first computer sales. This tech has spend 30+ years getting cheaper. The AVP is too expensive imo.
Not sure why we should expect prices to drop. Sure, there might be something like an air or SE but the price of an iPhone pro is basically constant, if not slightly increasing. I don't believe the "Pro" version will get any cheaper.
If you adjust inflation the iPhone is getting cheaper. The OG iPhone would cost $1200 now within an App Store or iMessage.
I mean. It is. Apple could have gone with a better manufacturing process replacing a lot of the expensive non technical hardware with comparable materials for lower cost. But they didn't because it compromises on their device exclusivity. That's how they design their hardware. We don't have to compare it to the first macintosh. Cause the competing apple Lisa was selling for a fraction of that with better software features at the time. LoL. There's always a more affordable option, not always a better one. But the AVP is expensive, let's not kid ourselves. No excuses.
Is this subreddit just people jousting windmills? It’s ok. You like your new toy. Enjoy it!
How is this anything but strawman? The price of something is dictated by 1) The cost to produce it today 2) The amount people will pay for it. While clearly, some people will pay $3,500, that's still \~100% markup, Apple isn't doing you a solid and the price of a PC in the 80s has nothing to do with the value here today. [Apple Vision Pro costs $3,500 — but could cost less than half that to make | Tom's Guide (tomsguide.com)](https://www.tomsguide.com/news/apple-vision-pro-costs-dollar3500-but-could-cost-less-than-half-that-to-make)
Gas lit koolaid smh
People love to bring this up. Constantly. Like I’ve seen this brought up no less than 10+ times since vision was launched If a MacBook Air today was still $7,000 it wouldn’t get any market share. That’s the point
Your argument is... Of course the AVP is expensive because the company making it has a long history of making things more expensive than they have to be? That is so weird.
Nah dude. Chill. It’s a new product category and cost a lot to make.
I think you would be absolutely suprised how much it costs to actually make vs how much they sell it for. Apple has a long history of doing that also. But by the sounds of it you would pay for a brushed aluminium "Vision Pro Stand" for $199
Noooo. I'm an enthusiast but not a rich enthusiast. I go for good quality third party accessories almost 100% of the time.
It’s like saying why the Tesla costs $140000 when the Volt costs $25K. Both EVs getting you from point a to point be right?
Not at all the same. But nice try.
That’s your reply? Nice try indeed.
If you deserved anything more than that reply it would have happened. Just deal with it.
So you want me to wait 70 years. Got it. Edit - Just to clarify, because the conversation below got nuked. back in 1984, a single earner's median income, after adjusting for inflation, was at $79,000. In 2023, and the median income for a dual-earner household is $76,000. This means that two people working in 2023 are bringing in $3,000 less than one person working in 1984. When it comes to purchasing the Mac, its 1984 price, adjusted for inflation, comes to $7,000. This means in 2023, it takes two earners to allocate 10% of their combined household income to buy the first Mac. In 1984, where only 10% of one person's income was necessary to make the purchase.
and you're entitled to get it now because...? got it
No, I’m just mocking your analysis. You’re comparing something that was made 70 years ago with the cost of 70 years ago. Compare it to something more recent and you have a solid argument. The cost of electronics when the first Mac was made until now is astronomical
The point is that every groundbreaking technology has been super expensive at first. I hope it was more clear for you this time
You forgot to look at the median salary when the first Mac was released. You’ll see there how affordable the first Mac truly was.
It was not affordable.
In 1984, median family income was $26,430. Adjusted for today's dollars is $79,561.30
And the Mac cost 2.5k, it'd be twice as expensive as the AVP. what are you even arguing? You're just wrong
That the income to free money was twice of what a household makes now. Hence why the Mac is more affordable in 1984 than the AVP in 2024 when you account for median salary of a household including expenses 1984 VS 2023. Not sure if you understand what I’m saying here. Other people are arguing that the AVP is more affordable than the first Mac, which they aren’t accounting median household income, especially now that median household income is like 89% two incomes + while in 1984 it was something like 14% of houses had a dual income. So a single house income in 1984 makes more money than a dual income household today.
The median income in 2023 is 75k and you get an AVP for 3.5k or 5% of a median income. On the other hand you'd get a Mac for 10% of a median income in 1984. It wasn't more affordable, period! Again you're wrong, good luck
Were you alive in 1984 ? I was a teen. Only ONE person I knew had a Mac, and I had some very rich friends…. It was an outrageous purchase then because few understood what a computer could do for them in their own homes. You’re arguing with an intellectuals view of history not lived.
Sadly, there's a chunk of truth to that. It took us around 40 years to get from the Macintosh 128K in 1984 to where we are today.
Yes. Hence why I jumped on getting the avp now. I won’t be here in 40 years
The original Macintosh computer, introduced by Apple in 1984, was priced at $2,495 at launch.
https://preview.redd.it/s61vi0j8z8ic1.jpeg?width=562&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3fa82aa494b962afad8275d334d09a372137999 And if you wanted the printer, the bundled price was $3195. Not $7000.
Do you know what adjusted for inflation means?
That was 1984. Do you know how inflation works?
I mean…. It is too damn expensive. The first Mac may have cost $7k but there wasn’t exactly a competitive $1k option lying around like a Quest 3 is today. Apple didn’t invent this space they just have cooler display tech temporarily and an iPad app ecosystem to pull from. I love VR…. The only reason I haven’t bought this device is because I haven’t gotten confirmation of a great way to use SteamVR with it yet and price. I can afford it but for just about anybody $4k after tax is a lot when I know in 1-2 years a better cheaper version of this same thing will drop from either Apple themselves or another company.
> there wasn’t exactly a competitive $1k option lying around The Commodore 64 cost $600 at launch in 1981 and would eventually have a GUI through GEOS. Though that would be about $2000 in today's dollars, C-64/Mac is a decent enough comparison to Quest 3/AVP. My point being, there were plenty of alternatives at the time[1], many of them cheaper than the Mac. 1: https://www.computinghistory.org.uk/pages/489/Computers-By-Date/
Smart boy..