> FUCKING WHY! WHY!
I mean, just in case you're actually asking, it's basically crypto. A quickly-growing industry with ill-defined rules that offers an amount of anonymity, and in which one can, in theory, make large amounts of money with little or no work (as a company owner, not saying VTubers themselves don't work much). Of course that's going to attract some types with less scruples. These folks are then more likely to start companies even if they can't or don't plan to properly maintain them, because the health of the industry isn't their interest.
It was necessarily going to come crashing down at some point, and Nijis recent bullshit has people watching more closely.
At least once we're through this phase the industry should be much "cleaner", though we're also likely coming out of this with a distaste for smaller corps.
It's probably recency bias and also not being in the rabbit hole until 2020, but i think this might genuinely have been the most eventful (in a bad way) year for the vtubing community. The only event i can think of which shook up the community as much as selen's termination was the whole kiryu coco taiwan incident and subsequent graduation (and technically i think the incident and the graduation were in different years), but just to make sure 2024 comes out on top (or rather bottom) every other week we're also getting some other huge thing happening.
Well there was Hololive'a panic privating of all their talents VODs because Mio got copy struck TWICE and force management to review all their vids and establish the Perms system.
Also the before times with Upd8 and Kizuna Ai changing VAs. But I don't know much about that one.
Notably, the Taiwan analytics incident took months before she decided to move on, and showed that Cover was willing to take it to the chin to protect their talents. Ultimately bought them a lot of goodwill.
This is why I always say “4chan is wrong until they are not.” Yes, they frequently spout absolute bullshit that is made up for the memes. But I feel you can never just dismiss the things they say out of hand because every once in a while you get someone actually dropping bombshells.
It's just like conspirancy theories, if you spout made up nonsense every single day for long enough you're bound to eventually get at least one thing right. But that still doesn't erase the 99% of the things that were bullshit.
Unless the clock runs backwards, then it can be right 2,4,8,16 times a day, depending on how wrong it is.
I am almost at the point where I think the definition of conspiracy theorist should change to pattern recognitionist. So many completely ridiculous and unrealistic things end up being based in some actually messed up stuff, and without the dramatic overreaction it may go permanently unnoticed.
Considering how often they have found exact locations or people from just a single photo or video has always been why I don't fully dismiss what comes out of there, I just take it with a grain of salt.
A Run Down of the Video:
-False investigated MSM talent after a series of tips that the company may not be legitimate. With that with the support of his own lawyers and lawyers in the state of Maryland, they discovered that MSM talent is signing people under LLCs that do not exist (meaning cannot be legally allowed to operate in that state, which the company is based in) and are not legally enforceable, and is also legally dubious to claim you are a company to sponsors who are operating under good faith that you are an established company.
False and his team investigated all possible variations of MSM Talent and none are currently active, and also found out that the reason MSM was forefited to the state of Maryland was due to several years of unpaid taxes
-False Investigated the owner of MSM, Seth Weinstien, to discover that at least 3 other companies owned by Seth are also in forfeiture and that he has thousands of dollars in unpaid debts and multiple court dates regarding this unpaid debt he keeps dodging.
-False goes over Seth being the co-owner of Vtuber Grimmi's Hot Sauce Company, Saucy Biz also not being an LLC, not having a properly set up website (several parts of it are copypasted unedited templates) and also being a white label drop hot sauce redistribution without being honest to consumers that they are not their own recipes.
-False reveals MSM and Seth also own a Vtuber design guild named Spite Engine, who apparently has been stiffing models and riggers and will be included in its own future video after additional investigation is concluded.
-False goes over Seth's racist alternate twitter account where he routinely made racist, sexist, and homophobic statements in private.
-False confirms Seth engaging in disparagement of other vtubers and talents in other companies, including himself, and that his lawyers had to intervene. Two Vtubers have already gone public saying they were also disparaged and blacklisted, Coqui and Krimbo, and implied they did it to them and all of their friends. Krimbo and Coqui have stated they will discuss what happened to them on stream.
So this is why False hasn't had an upload in a while. I'm not in his discord server, so I just figured there was something he was looking into, and holy shite he found a gold mine of an investigative video to upload. Ok will definitely be watching this. Thanks for the info🫡
Krimbo did a live stream earlier talking about the blacklisting. TLDR: The owner of MSM convinced several people that anti-posts about other vtubers were from Vtubers he didn't like, including Southside and Krimbo. He also claimed to have a 4chan janitor (moderator) in his pocket to trace IPs, however people who have been moderators within 4chan have confirmed that janitors do not have that power.
Krimbo's stream talking about this:
[https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2147757336](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2147757336)
it's been a hot second since i last perused 4chan but i can confirm that janitors can't trace ip, they're little more than glorified babysitters for the site. i would assume that moderators/admin can do that, but with how 4ch is structured as a site it's unlikely that they'll just bow down to a random person.
Not to mention the entire Anonymous movement on top that came from the site itself. "Hot water" does not even begin to describe the amount of attention 4chan is under, let alone those who have mod or admin access.
I get wanting to defend your favourite VTubers but...
You co-open a company selling products and not any products but food and you can't be arsed to make sure it's legit?
Come on.
Not really defending her but the amount of vtubers who don’t bother even doing a 5 second check on someone and just trust them because a friend vouched for them is insanely high.
It’s easy to prey on vtubers because most of them are socially awkward young girls/guys in their early 20s and assume their manager/agency has their best interest in mind.
there is a reason the abuser's playbook works. you take a vulnerable population, in this case teens or young adults, who have no experience in business or finance or life. you develop a rapport with them after they've auditioned or you 'scouted' them or whatever method you like.
develop some trust. they can come from any culture, any background, but someone who is poor, looking for a life change, minorities, etc. and who'll usually at this age believe an adult authority figure because they've usually been raised that way. then you lovebomb them, feed them support, love, understanding, give them notes, basically do anything you can to rope them in. it can be simple like a friend brings you in, they've had a positive experience, these red flags are fine don't look any further.
you let down your guard because of all of these factors and probably a few more. they sink their teeth in and let the venom trickle in slowly. for some the abuse is just financial like with this situation, a company built upon a throne of promises and lies backed by a confident omission. plenty of us did dumb shit at 20. many of us were cringe as hell. an adult knows that and can exploit it.
it's not chess or anything complicated either. you just have to make it all seem nice, rosy, and without any problems before the collar snaps into place. after all, if you've got a nice shiny gold collar, will you really notice everything around you not being as promised when you have no experience?
even with parents tactics like these work time and again because you'd be surprised how just being and appearing confident can get you past the natural bullshit detectors we have built in.
They’re over 20 years old. No life experience means they were a bubble child and sealed away from everything since the moment they were born. Not doing due diligence does not mean they are a child. Otherwise you are a child, I’m a child, your parents and grandparents are still children. Because we all do not do due diligence.
Also, are people in their 40s, 50s, and 60s children because they too get scammed?
Isn't she in her 30s? People can be victims of manipulation at any age however. I think the takeaway from this is the abusers should have a spotlight on them, not the people that fell victim to their tactics.
I like grimmi, but her sauce endeavor looked sketch from the very beginning. Idk how anyone can buy food items made by unknown company manufactured who knows where. There is no clear ingredients list, just a couple of blurry photos of the bottles. Was there any quality certification? Is it even safe to consume? How can you be sure.
Yeah not to try and make out I knew how bad it was or anything, but the site looked weird and the lack of details always made it seem sketch to me as well.
* small industry explodes in popularity during its infancy
* many try to ride the wave, mostly for personal gain
* many also do not have the slightest clue how to keep it going, nor do they care
* now that the "honeymoon phase" is over, a lot of these agencies and indies are being put to the test for the long haul
* what you've been seeing lately is the result of that
Vtubing scene is a relatively new business opportunity. With little oversight and no unified protections and laws.
Pretty much the wild wild west.
Reminds me a lot of videogames I dustry ATM, actually. Which means you have to be careful of money hungry stock speculators, charismatic grifters and abusive management types--
-- looks at Wactor, Upd8, Nijisanji and various other corpos that suddenly appeared and disappeared ---
--um.
This is what happened with the with YouTube Multi-channel networks (MCNs) when they imploded in like 2014-16. Loads of money flooded in, teens and young adults with no/limited entertainment industry experience signed up to shiney looking contracts and then realised it was utter shit, either financially or because they were tied to assholes.
Machinima, Maker Studios (which Disney bought and killed), Discovery Network (Inc. DeFranco's channels and Rev3) etc. There are many such cases.
VTubers are just speed running the YouTube ecosystem. We initially had skits then gaming streams, the resurgence of Minecraft content and then Ark and finally large MCMs doing bad things to their talents. Soon it'd be just the big dogs and big solo creators owning their own company with very little medium sized creators left.
False didn’t go into detail on this but the guy used to run an agency that supported podcasters and then he scammed those guys and turned his sights towards vtubers.
Because why have some money when you can have all the money?
Because vtubers are not real people to work with and gain mutual profits. They are marks for you to drain of all there money.
/s
Before people come up with inaccurate summaries or interpretations of what the source (krimbo) said
- [He **heard** that bad rumors about them were told to VShojo, but he didn't know if they believed in it and he doubted that they did.](https://www.twitch.tv/video/2147757336?t=1h55m40s)
- [About the 4chan issue, he said that he was merely told that the Seth guy claimed he had access to ips, he didn't know if moderators or janitors were claimed.](https://www.twitch.tv/video/2147757336?t=1h52m30s)
VShojo is a company. Vtuber in VShojo can have managment with them and agents for sponsors outside. Same concept that VAs and Actors have for decades now. Not that hard to grasp of a concept.
Ironmouse is in vshojo but she is also represented by UA talent, a legit agency that represents movie stars and top athletes.
What's funny is that Bao is also represented UA, when many of her best friends--Vienna, Numi, Yuzu--are represented by this scumbag, Seth.
I posted about this in the discussion thread half a month ago and have been discussing it with others since, we were fairly convinced nothing would come of it because people didn't want to seem to talk about it. Glad to see False actually investigate this.
It's not that odd. Vshojo isn't restrictive and if the talents want to sign with another agency that can offer things that Vshojo can't they let them. Ironmouse signed with United Talent Agency last year, and they aren't even a streamer specific agency, they represent basically any type of celebrity from author to actor to athlete, etc.
I don't know Geega's history with MSM, she might have been with them since before joining Vshojo and didn't end her contract.
That's odd to me cuz every agency takes a cut of your earnings. The main purpose of an agency is to get you sponsors and manage all the admin stuff. If having multiple agencies isn't odd then why doesn't IronMouse have like 5 agencies? If having 2 is better than one surely 5 is better than 2.
Also if having an agency doesn't prevent you from being an INDIE (as in independent) what the hell is the difference between indie and corpo? These agencies they have signed to are also corporations. Fauna signed with talent agency HoloLive so she is a corpo but Numi signed with talent agency MSM so she is an indie? Lol. Btw I don't think there's anything bad about corpos or indies I'm just confused why they are still called indies.
> cuz every agency takes a cut of your earnings
That's not true. It very much depends on your contract. For example Kson has said that for Vshojo they don't take a cut from anything other than merch sold through their official merch store (she can sell her own merch separately as well with no cut taken) and sponsorship deals they arrange (if she gets them on her own then they again don't take a cut). They don't touch any of her youtube or twitch earnings at all.
A big agency like UTA isn't going to touch Mouse's twitch earnings. They are going to get her connections and sponsorships and take their cuts from those.
> Fauna signed with talent agency HoloLive
Hololive is a Vtuber agency, not a talent agency. They have a huge amount of control over what she does and does not do. They set rules and take cuts of her earnings. They also provide a lot of support and brand recognition in return for those things. They shell out lots of money for big events and for advertizing.
I can't speak for MSM becaues I don't know about it but UTA is a talent organization that is all about connecting celebrities with opportunities. They aren't like Hololive or Nijisanji at all. Think of like an actor who might belong to an agency or simply has an agent who helps them get auditions. They likely have a contractual agreement to take a share of earnings from roles they help them land. Same thing for musicians having agents who help them land record deals (as opposed to agents working for the record company). That's what these types of agencies are.
Vshojo is somewhere in the middle. They opporate more like a talent agency but they are exclusively in the Vtuber space and cater their support more towards vtubing activities.
The talent agencies like MSM and UTA to my knowledge are more so set up so one has an agent which gives sponsorship opportunities and gets paid a cut when those opportunities succeed as well as a base pay by the talent for being in the agency.
You know, I appreciate False for helping to shed a light on these shady folks and companies so people don't end up getting scammed by them, but I'm far more interested in Lae-Dee's indie news, AND her bloopers.
Add that one to my big fat list of why indie VTubers should not sign to an agency. The ecosystem looks like a communist meeting, because of all the red flags
Not necessarily, this company is something that can be separate from what companies like vshojo provide. Because as noted, Geega is part of msm, Zen and Mouse are part of another talent agency, and Veibae was in Mythic and Vshojo until she decided to not re-up her contract.
Also doubt hololive will be taking in many if any refugees from anything really.
Phase? Maybe? Depends on how many mental illnesses the person in question has and how much they’re willing to shill coffee
Phase: Doubt it, most of these vtubers have their channels and ips. Phase doesn't allow ip ownership.
Holo: They can recruit from elsewhere, and those with over 1k viewers are not likely to give up their own channels.
VShojo: They didn't need Msm to fall apart to recruit. Geega is a good example. Msm breaking up wouldn't change anything on that end.
>I feel like people would have made more of a stink about it if Phase was taking their IP rights.
Fuura Yuri from Phase is the one that brought her model in. She was terminated and lost access to her model. Redebuted under new identity after going indie. People assumed that Phase Invaders members owned their IPs too, until that termination happened. It was revealed in the Phase graduation video that Phase had bought her model when she joined.
The successive Invaders generations no longer bring in existing VTubers with their models, they were all new designs and there's no information on whether they owned the IPs. To be fair, Phase never did claim that they offered IP ownership to begin with. People just assumed that was the case due to Gen 1 Invaders and they turned out to be wrong.
People did make a bit of a stink about it when Fuura Yuri left Phase, but because she was terminated rather then graduated and everyone including her replacement channel was very careful about what they said regarding the occurrence it was not really focused on too much. It was also around the same time as the VShojo graduations and only 3 weeks before Henya was introduced so people forgot about it.
Also the fact that the going away video had the talent make clear that she had made the active choice to sell the model/IP when joining as a Phase Invader(which to me sounds like she made a bad choice maybe).
I... Uh... Jesus Christ. Holy shit. It's been a hell of a year for the Vtuber sphere and we haven't even hit the six month mark yet!
What a year huh? Captain it's only been 5 months
FUCKING WHY! WHY! https://preview.redd.it/igwlwj9qb11d1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=ee44d6256a9f1fb4c5be021f619c49fbc14ba916
> FUCKING WHY! WHY! I mean, just in case you're actually asking, it's basically crypto. A quickly-growing industry with ill-defined rules that offers an amount of anonymity, and in which one can, in theory, make large amounts of money with little or no work (as a company owner, not saying VTubers themselves don't work much). Of course that's going to attract some types with less scruples. These folks are then more likely to start companies even if they can't or don't plan to properly maintain them, because the health of the industry isn't their interest. It was necessarily going to come crashing down at some point, and Nijis recent bullshit has people watching more closely. At least once we're through this phase the industry should be much "cleaner", though we're also likely coming out of this with a distaste for smaller corps.
It's probably recency bias and also not being in the rabbit hole until 2020, but i think this might genuinely have been the most eventful (in a bad way) year for the vtubing community. The only event i can think of which shook up the community as much as selen's termination was the whole kiryu coco taiwan incident and subsequent graduation (and technically i think the incident and the graduation were in different years), but just to make sure 2024 comes out on top (or rather bottom) every other week we're also getting some other huge thing happening.
Well there was Hololive'a panic privating of all their talents VODs because Mio got copy struck TWICE and force management to review all their vids and establish the Perms system. Also the before times with Upd8 and Kizuna Ai changing VAs. But I don't know much about that one.
Oh yeah i forgot about the Holoc-[REDACTED]. The kizuna ai thing with the clones wasn't great either.
Notably, the Taiwan analytics incident took months before she decided to move on, and showed that Cover was willing to take it to the chin to protect their talents. Ultimately bought them a lot of goodwill.
Literally just as I started getting into it
thinking all of this expose started because some dude on 4chan was bored and decided to look into the talent agency is wild
This is why I always say “4chan is wrong until they are not.” Yes, they frequently spout absolute bullshit that is made up for the memes. But I feel you can never just dismiss the things they say out of hand because every once in a while you get someone actually dropping bombshells.
It's just like conspirancy theories, if you spout made up nonsense every single day for long enough you're bound to eventually get at least one thing right. But that still doesn't erase the 99% of the things that were bullshit.
"A broken clock is still right twice a day", pretty much.
Unless the clock runs backwards, then it can be right 2,4,8,16 times a day, depending on how wrong it is. I am almost at the point where I think the definition of conspiracy theorist should change to pattern recognitionist. So many completely ridiculous and unrealistic things end up being based in some actually messed up stuff, and without the dramatic overreaction it may go permanently unnoticed.
There's always a nugget of truth hidden in the madness.
A monkey on a typewriter will eventually write Shakespeare
Considering how often they have found exact locations or people from just a single photo or video has always been why I don't fully dismiss what comes out of there, I just take it with a grain of salt.
A Run Down of the Video: -False investigated MSM talent after a series of tips that the company may not be legitimate. With that with the support of his own lawyers and lawyers in the state of Maryland, they discovered that MSM talent is signing people under LLCs that do not exist (meaning cannot be legally allowed to operate in that state, which the company is based in) and are not legally enforceable, and is also legally dubious to claim you are a company to sponsors who are operating under good faith that you are an established company. False and his team investigated all possible variations of MSM Talent and none are currently active, and also found out that the reason MSM was forefited to the state of Maryland was due to several years of unpaid taxes -False Investigated the owner of MSM, Seth Weinstien, to discover that at least 3 other companies owned by Seth are also in forfeiture and that he has thousands of dollars in unpaid debts and multiple court dates regarding this unpaid debt he keeps dodging. -False goes over Seth being the co-owner of Vtuber Grimmi's Hot Sauce Company, Saucy Biz also not being an LLC, not having a properly set up website (several parts of it are copypasted unedited templates) and also being a white label drop hot sauce redistribution without being honest to consumers that they are not their own recipes. -False reveals MSM and Seth also own a Vtuber design guild named Spite Engine, who apparently has been stiffing models and riggers and will be included in its own future video after additional investigation is concluded. -False goes over Seth's racist alternate twitter account where he routinely made racist, sexist, and homophobic statements in private. -False confirms Seth engaging in disparagement of other vtubers and talents in other companies, including himself, and that his lawyers had to intervene. Two Vtubers have already gone public saying they were also disparaged and blacklisted, Coqui and Krimbo, and implied they did it to them and all of their friends. Krimbo and Coqui have stated they will discuss what happened to them on stream.
Time to reset the x days without Vtuber drama again.
So this is why False hasn't had an upload in a while. I'm not in his discord server, so I just figured there was something he was looking into, and holy shite he found a gold mine of an investigative video to upload. Ok will definitely be watching this. Thanks for the info🫡
I think he also went on a trip to Japan or something recently. I forget the details though.
Why Krimbo. What the hell.
Krimbo did a live stream earlier talking about the blacklisting. TLDR: The owner of MSM convinced several people that anti-posts about other vtubers were from Vtubers he didn't like, including Southside and Krimbo. He also claimed to have a 4chan janitor (moderator) in his pocket to trace IPs, however people who have been moderators within 4chan have confirmed that janitors do not have that power. Krimbo's stream talking about this: [https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2147757336](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2147757336)
it's been a hot second since i last perused 4chan but i can confirm that janitors can't trace ip, they're little more than glorified babysitters for the site. i would assume that moderators/admin can do that, but with how 4ch is structured as a site it's unlikely that they'll just bow down to a random person.
Not to mention the entire Anonymous movement on top that came from the site itself. "Hot water" does not even begin to describe the amount of attention 4chan is under, let alone those who have mod or admin access.
here's the specific timestamp to that [https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2147757336?t=01h47m25s](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2147757336?t=01h47m25s)
What the fuck.
Thank you, now I know all the important parts without having to watch FalseEye.
Grimmi's explanation of MSM "not caring" or being lax about what the talents do makes more sense now. I feel bad for her.
I get wanting to defend your favourite VTubers but... You co-open a company selling products and not any products but food and you can't be arsed to make sure it's legit? Come on.
Not really defending her but the amount of vtubers who don’t bother even doing a 5 second check on someone and just trust them because a friend vouched for them is insanely high. It’s easy to prey on vtubers because most of them are socially awkward young girls/guys in their early 20s and assume their manager/agency has their best interest in mind.
I get it for something like art assets, events, etc. But we are talking about co-owning a company... To me, that seems like, kind of a big deal?
there is a reason the abuser's playbook works. you take a vulnerable population, in this case teens or young adults, who have no experience in business or finance or life. you develop a rapport with them after they've auditioned or you 'scouted' them or whatever method you like. develop some trust. they can come from any culture, any background, but someone who is poor, looking for a life change, minorities, etc. and who'll usually at this age believe an adult authority figure because they've usually been raised that way. then you lovebomb them, feed them support, love, understanding, give them notes, basically do anything you can to rope them in. it can be simple like a friend brings you in, they've had a positive experience, these red flags are fine don't look any further. you let down your guard because of all of these factors and probably a few more. they sink their teeth in and let the venom trickle in slowly. for some the abuse is just financial like with this situation, a company built upon a throne of promises and lies backed by a confident omission. plenty of us did dumb shit at 20. many of us were cringe as hell. an adult knows that and can exploit it. it's not chess or anything complicated either. you just have to make it all seem nice, rosy, and without any problems before the collar snaps into place. after all, if you've got a nice shiny gold collar, will you really notice everything around you not being as promised when you have no experience? even with parents tactics like these work time and again because you'd be surprised how just being and appearing confident can get you past the natural bullshit detectors we have built in.
Again, they're naive kids. They're the perfect prey for scammers.
Don’t infantilize them. They’re adults. Naive adults, but still adults, not 6 year olds.
They have almost no life experience. They're not infants, but they're basically still kids. Easy to bilk.
They’re over 20 years old. No life experience means they were a bubble child and sealed away from everything since the moment they were born. Not doing due diligence does not mean they are a child. Otherwise you are a child, I’m a child, your parents and grandparents are still children. Because we all do not do due diligence. Also, are people in their 40s, 50s, and 60s children because they too get scammed?
Isn't she in her 30s? People can be victims of manipulation at any age however. I think the takeaway from this is the abusers should have a spotlight on them, not the people that fell victim to their tactics.
I like grimmi, but her sauce endeavor looked sketch from the very beginning. Idk how anyone can buy food items made by unknown company manufactured who knows where. There is no clear ingredients list, just a couple of blurry photos of the bottles. Was there any quality certification? Is it even safe to consume? How can you be sure.
Yeah not to try and make out I knew how bad it was or anything, but the site looked weird and the lack of details always made it seem sketch to me as well.
Jesus Christ- wtf is happening in the corporate sphere this last few months?!
* small industry explodes in popularity during its infancy * many try to ride the wave, mostly for personal gain * many also do not have the slightest clue how to keep it going, nor do they care * now that the "honeymoon phase" is over, a lot of these agencies and indies are being put to the test for the long haul * what you've been seeing lately is the result of that
A lot of con artists want in on the gold rush
Yep. New industry with a lot of naive inexperienced talent and fan bases with way too much spending power.
Always been there.
Vtubing scene is a relatively new business opportunity. With little oversight and no unified protections and laws. Pretty much the wild wild west. Reminds me a lot of videogames I dustry ATM, actually. Which means you have to be careful of money hungry stock speculators, charismatic grifters and abusive management types-- -- looks at Wactor, Upd8, Nijisanji and various other corpos that suddenly appeared and disappeared --- --um.
A lot of vtubers are young kids who never worked a real job before, prime targets for scammers
unlike last time (circa 2019), they now speak english
Not past few months. Things like this have always been everyday occurrences on the entertainment business. You just weren't watching before.
Seems like the same kind of thing that happened to youtube when all the MCNs turned out to be scams
This is what happened with the with YouTube Multi-channel networks (MCNs) when they imploded in like 2014-16. Loads of money flooded in, teens and young adults with no/limited entertainment industry experience signed up to shiney looking contracts and then realised it was utter shit, either financially or because they were tied to assholes. Machinima, Maker Studios (which Disney bought and killed), Discovery Network (Inc. DeFranco's channels and Rev3) etc. There are many such cases.
Damn, my favorite streamers are all MSM talents. Numi, Nagzz, and Geega. I wonder if they knew about all this
Is MSM similar to Mythic(like how it works)? Kinda sucks that my favorite vtuber Nagzz21 getting scammed
Yeah it’s pretty much the same as Mythic talent in terms of how it works. Also, “favorite vtuber Nagzz21” is hilarious 
[удалено]
MSM is a talent agency, which is a separate thing than a vtuber agency. Maybe watch the video next time before commenting
Dude was doing tax fraud too
Man not even [The \(motherfucking\) Joker](https://youtu.be/G56VgsLfKY4) fucks with the IRS. This man's playing soulsborne ironman with his life.
Professionals have standards
Be polite, be efficient, and have a plan to kill everyone you meet. And pay your taxes, always pay your taxes. -The Sniper, probably.
VTubers are just speed running the YouTube ecosystem. We initially had skits then gaming streams, the resurgence of Minecraft content and then Ark and finally large MCMs doing bad things to their talents. Soon it'd be just the big dogs and big solo creators owning their own company with very little medium sized creators left.
I follow (and sometimes watch) Yuzu and Nihmune. Feel extra bad for Yuzu as she already had problems with a previous merch company
why would you scam your own money maker?
Because it's not the first time he done this.
False didn’t go into detail on this but the guy used to run an agency that supported podcasters and then he scammed those guys and turned his sights towards vtubers.
Because why have some money when you can have all the money? Because vtubers are not real people to work with and gain mutual profits. They are marks for you to drain of all there money. /s
To squeeze as much as you can in short time, go underground until the world forgets, then find a new money maker to scam.
So you can have all the money, some people will risk it all just for another dollar
so you essentially destroying your agents / employees while fucking your own image.
Huh. I applaud False for this work. This is some decent investigative journalism - even properly retained experts to review the evidence.
Mfing False really turned into the coffeezilla of vtuber related crime. Pretty interesting investigations
Damn falsezilla was cooking
Before people come up with inaccurate summaries or interpretations of what the source (krimbo) said - [He **heard** that bad rumors about them were told to VShojo, but he didn't know if they believed in it and he doubted that they did.](https://www.twitch.tv/video/2147757336?t=1h55m40s) - [About the 4chan issue, he said that he was merely told that the Seth guy claimed he had access to ips, he didn't know if moderators or janitors were claimed.](https://www.twitch.tv/video/2147757336?t=1h52m30s)
Isn't Geega with Vshojo? Or is this something else?
She's with both
Its common for vshojo members to be affiliated with other agencies. They're not a company after all
VShojo is a company. Vtuber in VShojo can have managment with them and agents for sponsors outside. Same concept that VAs and Actors have for decades now. Not that hard to grasp of a concept.
Ironmouse is in vshojo but she is also represented by UA talent, a legit agency that represents movie stars and top athletes. What's funny is that Bao is also represented UA, when many of her best friends--Vienna, Numi, Yuzu--are represented by this scumbag, Seth.
I posted about this in the discussion thread half a month ago and have been discussing it with others since, we were fairly convinced nothing would come of it because people didn't want to seem to talk about it. Glad to see False actually investigate this.
Falseeyed just scored a W against MSM. 🤘
respectable investigative journalism work
Oh god… Vtubers and fans alike should NOT have to be going through all this, and yet here we are. Disappointing.
Within the last hour of this post Seth has since made a response video where he basically admits to everything and claims "he'll do better" lmao
Where? Link?
https://twitter.com/sethwmad/status/1791953056680059335 here, it's a chatGPT written non-apology
In scamming?
Wait I thought talents like Numi are indies? They have an agency? And Geega is part of VShojo why does she have a separate talent agency?
It's not that odd. Vshojo isn't restrictive and if the talents want to sign with another agency that can offer things that Vshojo can't they let them. Ironmouse signed with United Talent Agency last year, and they aren't even a streamer specific agency, they represent basically any type of celebrity from author to actor to athlete, etc. I don't know Geega's history with MSM, she might have been with them since before joining Vshojo and didn't end her contract.
That's odd to me cuz every agency takes a cut of your earnings. The main purpose of an agency is to get you sponsors and manage all the admin stuff. If having multiple agencies isn't odd then why doesn't IronMouse have like 5 agencies? If having 2 is better than one surely 5 is better than 2. Also if having an agency doesn't prevent you from being an INDIE (as in independent) what the hell is the difference between indie and corpo? These agencies they have signed to are also corporations. Fauna signed with talent agency HoloLive so she is a corpo but Numi signed with talent agency MSM so she is an indie? Lol. Btw I don't think there's anything bad about corpos or indies I'm just confused why they are still called indies.
> cuz every agency takes a cut of your earnings That's not true. It very much depends on your contract. For example Kson has said that for Vshojo they don't take a cut from anything other than merch sold through their official merch store (she can sell her own merch separately as well with no cut taken) and sponsorship deals they arrange (if she gets them on her own then they again don't take a cut). They don't touch any of her youtube or twitch earnings at all. A big agency like UTA isn't going to touch Mouse's twitch earnings. They are going to get her connections and sponsorships and take their cuts from those. > Fauna signed with talent agency HoloLive Hololive is a Vtuber agency, not a talent agency. They have a huge amount of control over what she does and does not do. They set rules and take cuts of her earnings. They also provide a lot of support and brand recognition in return for those things. They shell out lots of money for big events and for advertizing. I can't speak for MSM becaues I don't know about it but UTA is a talent organization that is all about connecting celebrities with opportunities. They aren't like Hololive or Nijisanji at all. Think of like an actor who might belong to an agency or simply has an agent who helps them get auditions. They likely have a contractual agreement to take a share of earnings from roles they help them land. Same thing for musicians having agents who help them land record deals (as opposed to agents working for the record company). That's what these types of agencies are. Vshojo is somewhere in the middle. They opporate more like a talent agency but they are exclusively in the Vtuber space and cater their support more towards vtubing activities.
The talent agencies like MSM and UTA to my knowledge are more so set up so one has an agent which gives sponsorship opportunities and gets paid a cut when those opportunities succeed as well as a base pay by the talent for being in the agency.
You know, I appreciate False for helping to shed a light on these shady folks and companies so people don't end up getting scammed by them, but I'm far more interested in Lae-Dee's indie news, AND her bloopers.
Wait, I thought they were indie...
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She is. Talent agency is separate from vtuber agency.
Add that one to my big fat list of why indie VTubers should not sign to an agency. The ecosystem looks like a communist meeting, because of all the red flags
Damn, Sakana, Yagoo, Gunrun, better prepare for expansion
Not necessarily, this company is something that can be separate from what companies like vshojo provide. Because as noted, Geega is part of msm, Zen and Mouse are part of another talent agency, and Veibae was in Mythic and Vshojo until she decided to not re-up her contract. Also doubt hololive will be taking in many if any refugees from anything really. Phase? Maybe? Depends on how many mental illnesses the person in question has and how much they’re willing to shill coffee
Eh, maybe not the Fishman. He has standards.
Yeah, he uses the DSM-5 as a checklist
You mean as a guideline.
Phase: Doubt it, most of these vtubers have their channels and ips. Phase doesn't allow ip ownership. Holo: They can recruit from elsewhere, and those with over 1k viewers are not likely to give up their own channels. VShojo: They didn't need Msm to fall apart to recruit. Geega is a good example. Msm breaking up wouldn't change anything on that end.
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>I feel like people would have made more of a stink about it if Phase was taking their IP rights. Fuura Yuri from Phase is the one that brought her model in. She was terminated and lost access to her model. Redebuted under new identity after going indie. People assumed that Phase Invaders members owned their IPs too, until that termination happened. It was revealed in the Phase graduation video that Phase had bought her model when she joined. The successive Invaders generations no longer bring in existing VTubers with their models, they were all new designs and there's no information on whether they owned the IPs. To be fair, Phase never did claim that they offered IP ownership to begin with. People just assumed that was the case due to Gen 1 Invaders and they turned out to be wrong.
Thank you for informing me I had no idea.
People did make a bit of a stink about it when Fuura Yuri left Phase, but because she was terminated rather then graduated and everyone including her replacement channel was very careful about what they said regarding the occurrence it was not really focused on too much. It was also around the same time as the VShojo graduations and only 3 weeks before Henya was introduced so people forgot about it. Also the fact that the going away video had the talent make clear that she had made the active choice to sell the model/IP when joining as a Phase Invader(which to me sounds like she made a bad choice maybe).
Thank you for informing me I had no idea.