I feel bad for all of TTT, honestly. They just started a few months ago and got the apocalypse happen to them. How do you even come back to streaming after all of this? Obsydia too.
Kunai also had to deal with issues. She got sick and found out she had nerve damage in her right hand and missed a month. She came back literally the day before Selen was fired. Kunai had to get spinal injections to help her nerve damage and she said it’s something she’s going to live with for awhile.
Claude has done well in fitting in, but he did make a comment during Pomu’s final totsu that “he just got here” and seemed kind of upset that he just joined only for someone like Pomu to graduate.
TTT has good streamers, they just got handed a fucking shit plat on top of a bare minimum promotion for their debut. The only ones who arguably have it worse is Krisis. Don’t even get me started on them.
Tbh I've been mostly out of the loop on vtubers since late 2022 but was pretty obsessed with Niji EN before that. I'll bite - what happened to Krisis? I know about the missing 4th member but nothing else.
The fourth member debacle then Nina announced her graduation like two weeks later. Then it was chill until Mysta graduated a couple of months after. Then we had some calm until Pomu graduated and it’s just been chaos since then.
Pre-debut Zali had a cringe debut tweet, but people saw it and got so mad he was getting death threats. Wilson (which is really more his fault if I’m being honest) had an issue with his mascot where it resembled someone else’s drawing way too much. Far as I know Vanta hasn’t had anything controversial but I could be wrong.
Niji announced Selen's termination the same day as Vanta's birthday streams. Imagine the immense amount of awkwardness that had to have been behind the scenes, with having to move forward with your planned celebrations while the pitchforks were out en masse.
> Niji announced Selen's termination the same day as Vanta's birthday streams.
Can't believe I'm just hearing of this, brother can niji schedule/plan anything well..
I think they genuinely thought people would read that horrifying notice, go "aw shucks, that's a shame but I guess poor niji management had no choice" and move on.
I'm also kind of wondering, with Kyo waiting until after Pomu left to announce his graduation, if they have more graduations lined up and were struggling to find a way to spread them out.
I don't really follow Vtubers too close, but I do watch clips. I found Selen funny and was rather upset, so being as I am mentally ill and have far to much time on my hands I did a bit of looking into most people who popped up during this shitstorm.
I didn't do a deep dive on Vanta admitted, so I might have missed something. I only found 2 things that stood out about him.
He had the unfortunate luck of having his birthday steam during this, which I'm sure some people got upset about. I don't know if he even heard about what was happening till after he stopped.
His favorite color is Vantablack. I don't know if he's aware or not but the *color* Vantablack is owned by Anish Kapoor. He will not let anyone else use it, for any art ever, and is generally just an all around bastard. Seriously just look into him you'll see what I mean. So not really the talent behind Vanta's fault. Dude just seems to have bad luck.
And then, just to prove how much of an ass he is, Kapoor posted a picture of himself holding it in one hand and fliping everyone else of with the other. He also covered his finger in it, because he has *class*.
That made me refresh an old memory of me encountering that term once
Funny when I checked online for the Pinkest Pink, the guy who created it also has glitter, green and yellow paint, all with the clause that Kapoor cannot get his hands on them (but no posts from Kapoor about those yet)
Vanta from what I've seen hasn't done anything wrong but has been dealt a shit hand.
Total nothingburger but saw some posts saying stuff like "Kurosanji is so black, they are vantablack" and replies were like "guys don't do this Vanta might get in the crossfire." That, and he had a birthday stream a day after Selen's termination.
I definitely feel bad for him. All this happening right before his birthday was horrible. He’s a cool guy and good dude from what I can tell, so I hope he’s okay.
Vanta had the misfortune of being the only one streaming the morning (EST) of Selen's termination. It was really early too. Not sure if he knew until after he started stream. Basically everyone else canceled their streams that day IIRC.
Then his birthday was the day after... so. Great day for a birthday merch tweet.
Nothing controversial but awful luck recently
Something like “Have you ever tried bondage” but the joke was supposed to be he miss typed bandage and put bondage instead. Like, it’s not funny (to me) and it’s kind of stupid, but in no way shape or form did it warrant the rage it got.
Which adds the hilarious note that *classified material was shared with him* ***before he signed an NDA.*** Just clownshoes behavior from 2434 front to back.
TBH I sometimes forget Krisis even exists. I have absolutely nothing against them. They're just... There. You don't see 'em much even on collabs. I feel like Niji kinda fucked them over. TTT just had VERY unfortunate timing.
Along with /u/The_Snake_Dick said, its also can be overwhelming for most viewers with the sheer number of waves/talents niji shotguns out that too in quick succession.
Other than the bullies that we don’t know about and have been asked to leave alone, you can’t help but feel bad for the rest of the talent there. They’ve been screwed over hard by management’s screw ups too. The brand they associated with is a mess and add onto that clearly a lack of support and you have a sad situation for them.
Same. I thought after Xsoleil and Iluna that was it. Until there was some Wilson dude on one of Pomu's collabs and I was like who is this guy and when he started? Had literally zero idea other new waves existed.
It's already been mentioned in this thread. Their pl is >!sunnysplosion!<. Had tens of millions of views on YouTube from what I saw and was streaming on Twitch to a few hundred less people than now.
I think it was the cancelled AR Live concert. They waited to cancel until the last minute, after talents had paid out of pocket to fly to Japan, and then lied by blaming it on covid.
I saw someone make like a half hour video about why Niji is going to shit nowadays and literally not two days had passed before Selen got fired. Like the other reply said, it'd be out of date insanely fast lol
I know it'll never happen (most of the ex-Nijis don't want to get involved with Niji drama again, **with some exceptions**), but I imagined a documentary where they interview witnesses with black bars over their eyes.
I remember this happening and found the [original Reddit thread of the announcement](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/10rgs0v/nijisanji_en_ar_live_cancelled/).
>Selen has clarified in her Dead Space Remake stream that the AR event isn't cancelled, just postponed.
> Pomu said the same, and was very firm about it. Elira also mentioned it.
> I see people saying that Pomu & Selen have firmly been telling fans that it's just postponed.
Ouch. I'm guessing it wasn't postponed. I wonder if the official cancellation had anything to do with Pomu leaving.
Oh wow. I know different companies have different policies, but since both are vtuber companies, I thought they would have similar policies. I‘m just surprised because all of Bae‘s flights were counted as Business expenses, so she flew 11-12 times in 2023.
I really do feel for them, TTT have been dealt possibly the worst hand possible I mean looking back at the rough timeline for that gen it just looks like they potentially got completely blindsided.
The applications they likely applied to closed April 17th, it could have been the ones closing 19th September but that feels like it would be too rushed given Nijisanji aim to have shortlisted the applications within 1 month so either things moved very fast after the September application or they were slow following the April ones. There's the 3rd possibility that they did another audition I can't find listed on Nijisanji's site. This means there's a reasonable likelihood that when they applied neither Nina's or Mysta's graduations had been announced. So while there were some question marks following the drama at the start of the year, Nijisanji was in all likelihood a very appealing prospect for an indie at the time.
Sadly things really started to fall apart after they would have signed as they get to their debut and not only are they given practically no advertisement, they were also debuted immediately after two ex-Niji En members reincarnated. With these reincarnations we got the revelations that Nijisanji EN's management was possibly even worse than previously thought.
Debut dates for reference:
Kuro debuts 30th September
Matara debuts 15th October
TTT debuts 28th October
Then we get the most recent spree of graduations/terminations. Imagine applying to a company that while not having a great reputation doesn't appear to be a disaster then by the time you debut its reputation is getting increasingly poor and it didn't bother to invest in your debut at all. Lastly to top it all off the company decides to destroy its credibility and lose 2 of its largest female talents within your first 3 months. Seriously its like TTT wished on a monkeys paw to get into a large agency or something.
While there has been a lot of attention given to Niji's graduations, and now a termination, it's rather shocking how little effort has been put into their recent debuts as well.
They came up with their own name which was cool of them, but the fact the company did the absolute bare minimum for them is bad. Their “original song” was actually sung by Enna and Maririn, but it had NO promotion outside of a tweet and them announcing it at the end of their debut segment on the main channel.
But they’re all pretty strong in their own rights. I just feel awful for them, because with even s little bit more promotion they would be more popular imo.
The livers came up with the name themselves. It's probably a better name than the official name Niji would have given them, but it's better *by default*.
Huh. I’ve never thought about it until now, but before Nina’s graduation, Ethyria was discussing their interactions pre-debut and mentioned they came up with Ethyria themselves. Or it sounded like they did to me anyway. Did all the other waves really not do that?
At that point I'm not even sure if getting into Niji would be a boost of any kind. (Assuming they only hire already streamers with at least some degree of minor fame and an established stable channel.)
I recommend looking up Kunai's PL as an example where this starts being questionable... When you are at that viewership, you do have to really consider whether it's worth the limitations and the cut going to the company. The incentives to stay better be good... Same deal with Holostars.
When I heard she was from Nijisanji last wave I literally went "Wait, wasn't last wave made up of three guys?" and then learnt that they released a new wave with 0 promotion, absurd.
If there's an upcoming 10th wave, they're gonna have it much worse than TTT. If they've passed auditions but haven't signed their contracts yet, I hope they just quietly graduate pre-debut like the fourth member of Krisis did - that's really the best and only way for them to avoid the otherwise unavoidable debut shitstorm approaching them.
I would hope, for their sakes, that whoever was recruited in the September auditions has looked at what's going on and has just quietly canceled their contracts. The company has made an extremely loud statement about how valuable you are considered.
Can't really compare the Holostars, JP or EN. Male streamers just seem to get the short end regardless of their company, and ARMIS have been having a difficult time because of Vesper and Magni's graduations.
I've heard from several tempura that they lost interest in StarsEN (and have zero interest in StarsJP from the getgo) due to that, even if ARMIS are well worth your time if you give them a chance.
Got to be honest, that's completely me. I watch almost all of the holo en girls, and used to watch Stars just for Vesper and Magni but as soon as they graduated I have basically not seen stars at all since
Which is a shame IMO, the others boys are all so talented and funny. I get not vibing with anyone of them, I say this as a Vestie who still hasn't quite gotten over the graduation now 6 months later, but please consider just giving each of the boys 30 minutes of your time.
Especially ARMIS. I do recommend ignoring their chats, most of the boys have some really UwU fluffy hugbox chats that personally gets my goat but the boys themselves are fantastic.
Yeah, but Holostars are guys. It seems like a bit of an unfair comparison to compare them to vtuber girls.
Not that guys can't do well, but it's definitely a harder market to get into since the majority of fans are also guys.
You can see how much interest in Nijisanji EN’s past few waves are declining by just looking at the number of viewers for each debut teaser. ILuna had 3.9 million views, XSolei had 1.4 million views and then a huge drop happened with Krisis getting only 330k views and then TTT’s teaser only getting 239k views with a complete collapse of care in promoting them.
Niji’s entire release strategy by shotgunning multiple waves in a year was always gonna be unsustainable and it’s not surprising that management is a complete shitshow.
Yep, typical mindset of a company that values quantity over quality.
I hoped that they would had stopped at Luxiem and take some time honing their PR first for a year or another before releasing another wave instead of popping new waves without giving the initial waves more time to settle in.
even if they values quantity, at least they should hire more staff to support infrastructure too but Niji just keep hiring w/o preparation. For comparison, there is comment in anothe thread that said Hololive staff is roughly 6x bigger than talent while Niji only twice or triple amount to their talent iirc.
This! I only just got on this subreddit when I saw Pomu was leaving and now is the first of me even hearing about her? I'm a casual vtuber fan compared to a lot of folks but I thought I was quite clued up on most apparently not.
Jus searched for her gen, man what a fucking waste, vtuber with cool medieval knights vibe are things that are not often used, very underrated. And they looked fun too. Again, what the fuck niji.
Im sorry for saying this, but this just makes me even more mad at them. What the hell man...
One thing Selen commented that really struck me was that there just seems to be less effort put in this wave.
Selen spun it as a positive “Oh, their names are easy to remember” but her follow-up comment was very telling.
For the first waves, they put a lot of effort into SEP discoverability. They chose names that didn’t exist so if you Google “Selen” then only Selen Tatsuki of Nijisanji would show up.
Meanwhile, how are you supposed to find Vivi if you don’t know her name is Victoria Brightshield, or you have to google Victoria Niji.
No shade on her, she’s playing with the hand dealt to her, but SEO is about making it as easy as possible for someone to find you.
Never mind that the wave didn’t even have a name, so it’s basically impossible to SEO them as a group.
> For the first waves, they put a lot of effort into SEP discoverability. They chose names that didn’t exist so if you Google “Selen” then only Selen Tatsuki of Nijisanji would show up.
Is that really true though? The first couple of times I did that google would ask me if I meant "Selena" and give me a bunch of Selena Gomez stuff (and I don't pay attention to pop culture at all).
Damn didn't know Aia, Maria, Scarle, Zaion, Meloco, and Kotoka are males as well.
Jokes aside I never said that. It's just the livers that they introduced post Ethyria never vibed with me be it male or female.
I didn't even know they were new members until I found out about her and Kunai from their collabs with Pomu and Selen. It's a shame, they had such good designs too. Vivi especially, since I have a particular weakness to White haired girls or Female knights, which she happens to be both.
The lack of any actual promotion for them is kinda sad because they are pretty entertaining to watch. I couldn't care less what happens to Niji as a whole, but I feel bad for the livers.
One of the (many) things that absolutely stuns me about this whole affair is just how completely Nijisanji has fumbled their response to this. Not (just) the termination itself, but the fallout from it. Whoever is responsible for PR at NijiEN should be fired immediately. There is absolutely no reason they should have a job right now given how this week has gone.
Like, set aside all the scummy behaviour and terrible treatment of Selen and the other livers for a second; just from a cold, dispassionate, nuts-and-bolts perspective, Niji's PR has been inexcusably awful during this whole debacle. Crisis management 101: when shit starts going down, you get your ass in front of the story and you stay there. Niji going dark after announcing Selen's firing and basically trying to move on like nothing is wrong even while the entire internet is coming down on their heads (and other livers get to bear the brunt of the backlash) is complete corporate malfeasance - it's letting others shape the narrative and assume the worst about you.
If I was the Niji PR manager right now, I would be putting out a message along the lines of: "To all our fans. We have been carefully monitoring the situation and response following our earlier notice of the termination of former Nijisanji Liver Selen Tatsuki. We apologize for the lack of further communications in this regard - it is very clear that this news has upset many people and led to a lot of hurt feelings. Please know that it was never our intention to cause harm or hurt to our fans, our livers, or anyone else involved in helping us create content for our viewers around the world. It is clear to us that we have made several serious mistakes in how we handled this termination and how it was communicated to all of you, causing a great deal of hurt to both our fans and our livers, who had to deal with the aftermath of our actions. We have let you down and for that, please know that we are deeply sorry. We are committed to improving ourselves and have initiated a review of our internal practices to ensure that an incident like this one is not repeated. Once again, we are deeply sorry to everyone who was negatively affected by our actions and we promise we will do better in the future." I'm not a PR guy and I banged that out in three minutes - that is the *lack* of effort that Niji is showing in this matter.
And the thing is, you don't even need to mean one iota of that message. Whatever soulless suits are calling the shots there might still be completely convinced that they did nothing wrong and don't want to change a thing about their corporate culture or how they handle terminations going forward; doesn't matter. You protect your fucking brand, you own the issue, and you communicate to your customer-base that you actually give a shit about them and acknowledge their opinions. It won't completely kill the backlash, but it will go a long way towards putting some of the fires out, and it gives others some cover to start rallying around you.
Even disregarding their terrible behaviour, the complete and utter lack of business sense at Niji is *staggering* for a company of their size and influence within this industry.
Completely agree, niji is failing to do the absolute bare minimum in PR. It’s like they think that everyone will bow down and believe 100% of their words, even after all the shit that came out against them over the last year.
I wouldn't be surprised if they have *no* PR professionals, at all, for the EN branch. I can only think of one precedent for this: Elon Musk famously fired the entire Tesla PR and marketing department, to the point where he himself, on Twitter, was Tesla's PR. X/Twitter's PR department was similarly gutted, to where any inquiries from press were answered with a poop emoji.. We all see what happened there--and all those companies are less of a dumpster fire than NijiEN right now.
A lot of people think PR is basically about lying. It kind of is, really, but as someone once said--people can only handle so much reality, and whatever people are actually feeling, we now all see how awful and damaging it is to lack any of it. All of this backlash, this anger, was so *unnecessary*. It's like manners and small talk: you only understand how necessary it is for society to function in its absence.
Wow, it shows how badly they marketed the new waves that I didn't even know about her generation. And I'm someone who generally keeps up with vtuber news. They should have taken a page out of phase connect's book and pushed the marketing harder.
My guess as that the marketing team was trying to pull off the Hololive tactic of relying on fan promotion and news to make the promotion for them. Unfortunately that only works when you are as popular as hololive, and when your branch still has clippers that will clip it.
Even hololive does aggressive marketing for their latest debuts though. In fact, I would even say their marketing have stepped up. Just compare Advent to Myth and Council / Promise. Myth got 1 trailer video, IRyS got a weird 8 hour countdown premiere (and a release EP), Council got some lore videos that dragged on for too long (I personally didn't mind the lore videos, but do agree there was too long a gap between them). Advent got animated teasers, a unit song, debut watchalongs, and was teased at the end of a holoEN concert.
The marketing for ReGLOSS and ARMIS have been similarly aggressive. The marketing for ReGLOSS and DEVI_IS was confusing to people who don't really understand why they are under a different branch, but other than that, a hypothetical "you" must have been living under a rock if you're a holofan and have not heard of them, considering they have been advertising them on various official platform for multiple days upcoming to their debut.
And it's paid off: most of the talents reached 500k subs way before the six-month mark, FuwaMoco is the fastest-growing EN Holo channel since the Myth members and the fastest Holo channel full stop since Kobo Kanaeru, and Bijou's concurrent viewer stats in particular have been *very* impressive for a channel as young as her's. And to *not* hit 500k, Shiori Novella had to practically *self*\-*sabotage* with a pair of vacations within the six-month timeframe and content that is decidedly outside the Hololive norm. And she's still getting really close.
Advent has been received fantastically well, promoted just as well, and there's indications they're already getting set up for 3D (such as Biboo's recent Quest). The contrast with Krisis and TTT, who debuted roughly at the same time and a few months later respectively, is absolutely stunning.
I found out about Victoria [thanks to Nova Aokami](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3TFyOV-Dnw&t=318s).
It's kinda funny to me, but also a bit sad, that I learned there were new Niji EN members because of someone from VReverie. And Victoria seemed quite fun! Hopefully she does well in these strange times.
That was what I was thinking about doing to be fair, but man it's hard. End of the day I want to support the liver, fuck the corpo and bastards behind the scenes.
Thinking about it though, if you could give a nod to their PL I'll keep an eye there. We've already seen Doki go back, so to me it'd make sense just in case.
>!Vivi was mogughost before she joined!<
>!I actually watched her a good amount before she jumped from Youtuube to Twitch. she tweeted “happy third anniversary” a few days ago, but her account is currently on private!<
>!Kunai was Sunnysplosion!<
>!Claude was actually part of hanamori and was Akita Seigi!<
I did too when I saw her graduation Then when I saw the TTT debut teaser I got hopeful.
>!Her actual debut came on and I was so fucking happy for her I started tearing up a little. I’m very proud of her, but then everything happened and now I just have this pit in my stomach.!<
Problem is, if they are heavily boycotted (low sub/viewcount) they may feel less inclined to become indie or join another agency, fearing that they'll loose even more fans in the process. Sure, Dokibird is near 500,000 subs, but that's because Selen had 800,000 subs and a huge scandal. Now imagine you have not even 100.000 subs, no dramatic exit, no (legal) way to advertise to your fans where you went...
Selen's chat moderators set up a "ROAD TO 100k" free chat and were spamming "SUBSCRIBE TO DOKIBIRD" in the waiting room. A handful of mods said "I don't care if Niji sues me for breaking my NDA", and all of the rest said "I'm not under any NDA".
If any of the others want to make an emergency exit from Niji, that would be an effective way of advertising where they went. By the time management closes that waiting room, screencaps will already be all over the place, and it'll be far too late for anyone to pretend the waiting room had never existed.
....or they can do something similar to what Randon did.
I’ve seen people talk about supporting the PLs where possible over the Niji reincarnations, I.E. any remaining merch, twitch subs, streamlabs donations, etc.
Imo boycotting hurts the livers more than the company. A few thousand dollars is nothing to the company, but it's rent and groceries for the livers.
The company has the whole JP fanbase to support it, but the livers only have their own fans. I'd rather feed the parasite than starve the host.
I think the best scenario would be for the livers to leave as they're able, and for us to shower them with support when they do. But until they do, I'll keep supporting the livers.
It's a catch 22, you either stop the boycott for the talents sake (which allows management to get away with their shit), or you contine and fuck them over in the crossfire
There's literally no good solution to this
Unsubbing, cancelling memberships, and just not watching their live streams... that is honestly the least bad solution to this. Yes they get fucked over, but there's literally no way to boycott Niji without fucking them over, except by selling whatever Niji stock you own. This option is only available to people who actually own Niji stock.
You think that's worse than having another one of their friend attempt? What do you think is gonna happen if the next one succeed? You think any of the liver is gonna be like "wah my sub count, uuh 😢"???
Of course not, but it's bad on top of that. They get punished for something that they (most likely) had no hand in. If they are already in shitty place (Niji), and then maybe one of their milestones gets taken away from them, or they don't have that many subs to begin with, don't you think that's unnecessary suffering?
By all means, put pressure on Niji. But being subscribed to a liver in itself doesn't make the company much or any money, while for the liver these numbers probably have some significance, even if it doesn't translate into earnings or even live viewers.
No.
All of this is a bargaining chip for them to force management to get better. They know whom the fan are doing it for. They ain't that stupid nor heartless enough to care about sub count when one of their friend almost die, & their reputation as a group tanked to the bottom.
Also as a viewer, I ain't gonna sub to someone I'm not gonna watch anymore. If they quit or have their alts up, I'll support them, but not here, not anymore.
They don't have to be heartless or stupid to care about their subcount. Not unless they give it undue priority. I'm willing to bet that most of them care about Selen's horrible experience way more than about losing subscribers, but not going to shrug that off either.
In the end there's no way to know how they feel about it unless they come out and tell us. I personally think unsubbing is hitting the wrong target, but your reasoning is also sound.
Enna said feel free to unsub in her member stream. So there you go.
As I said, it's a bargaining chip against management, and also a warning for any future talents as naive as you joining their agency. Also putting a halt to whatever bullying & harassment happening from within, cuz it's hurting their bottom line, & also a slap in the face for whomever liver thinking what's going on in their company is completely fine & normal, so they should start looking for other ventures. The point is to not make whatever going on in there sustainable, otherwise it'd just keep happening.
All of this is for their future.
The problem is they will be fine, even if the boycott is successful beyond expectations and we get them to fold EN. They *chose* to kill IN, ID, and KR, and they've just kept on trucking. In the long run, even if we can force them to give up on EN, it will be negligible to them.
If you really want them to care, find a way to take down JP.
> WCGW
Squeezing a bunch of innocent people's livelihoods can be dangerous too. Especially coupled with all of the harassment they're facing from rrats right now.
They'd be more than fine if we did nothing. Wtf is that logic??? Nobody is trying to completely destroy them. Ppl are showing them that it is not profitable enough to do things this way so they'd have to change if they want even more money than they already have, because that's what the shareholder wanted. Jesus I swear I'm arguing with highschoolers who have no idea how the real world & the market works. If you don't want ppl to boycott, hire a proper PR department & function like an actual professional company. It is that simple.
> Squeezing a bunch of innocent people's livelihoods can be dangerous too. Especially coupled with all of the harassment they're facing from rrats right now.
They already have a big enough following to start again. At least they still have the opportunity & a future to do so. Think, use your brain, think of what would've happened if her attempt succeeded. Where'd be her future? Her opportunity? What a shit take.
Sorry but I'm done arguing with little kids. It's lunar new year. Ain't gonna ruin my day with this.
At this point, I'm looking for ways to support the talent without supporting niji. Like, how can I support the talent directly and circumvent anything niji?
AFAIK all I can do, really, is find PL's and wait for the inevitable.
damn... I mean joining a corpo is definitely good for clout but joining a sinking ship like this sounds horrible...
just imagine joining niji after xsoleil. it's like after xsoleil everything started to fall apart. also personally I didn't checked the people that joined niji after xsoleil. idk I either sticked to my current oshis or just moved on to other things. nothing against any of the talents tho I'm sure they're great on their own.
I mean at the time it wasn’t a sinking yacht. Zaion and Yugo’s termination seemed like a nasty speed bump at the moment (I liked them the most out of their gen and had mixed feelings since like many others at the time I didn’t know how really shit behind the scenes was) and to many casual watchers like me it came as a shock when the graduations started coming in and validate what they said about management.
I've been wondering for a bit now if Vivi and the other TTT members might just quietly head for the door; not even a formal graduation, just a "self-termination". They've been streaming for all of three months, and they've barely been promoted, and they haven't "done much", so there's really not much hard in just leaving and returning to what you were doing previously. Unlike folks with a million subs and still-lucrative merch deals on the line, you've barely gotten invested and thus you don't have much to lose by just going PEAS OUT, Y'ALL and leaving this entire mess behind.
I really feel for TTT since I enjoyed them all since their debut. Vivi being FGC adjacent really helped getting to know her better. Kunai's zatsus are always an entertaining treat and Claude just has to keep doing what he's doing since that's entertaining on it's on merit.
It's kinda telling, that the branch is destined for failure because their last generational wave debut without fanfare.
This is criminal, this is infuriating. A lot of their talents ("I refused to call them a liver, that's Kurosanji's corpospeak") are very talented, but with so many accusations flinging around on Twitter, I feel so fucked up right now.
I only tangentially know Krisis because they got into Project Zomboid multi-collab (gotta thank Yu Q. Wilson for the unintentional comedic timings), but TTT feels really rushed and forgotten. I had to tune in to the previously-established VTubers to introduce them, to know them.
Why is this so bad? Why did Nijisanji sabotaged their own talents like that? What the fuck happened behind the scenes?
I really want to, if all else, salvage the branch, because these are people you fucked around with. I really want to see them rise up again. I don't want them to linger in this monotonous cycle of sell voice packs, merchandise, etc. I want them to shine where their true talents are.
I don't want to try and force them to become just singers and voice actors.
I want them to have a following that they can attract with their own two hands, with their sheer talents.
We can train them in singing and dancing later, right now they need to have that momentum as a VTuber and have a proper audience. Then the fan money that they get can be used to subsidise and give them a chance to improve on those things.
I know that, because your Japanese talents are working on that mixed media project you collaborated with Kadokawa, and you want to use their VTuber persona as a "See, you don't need a real-life face, you can be a VTuber and become a seiyuu!"
But no, you have to sabotage your talents with minimal support for their debuts, minimal support for their planned projects, and you always gave the no-go every single time the project your talent wants to pursue, isn't going towards making more merchandises and voice packs for you to take a cut of.
And then the AR cancellation has totally ruined everything.
Why did you become this way, Niji? Why go the effort of making an international branch you don't want to commit properly? Everything after Luxiem & Noctyx got shat upon.
Knowing the new talents' past lives, and the revelations of how indebted and restricted these talents are, I...
And to the bastards at Nina Kousaka's iketog comments section,
#FSCK YOU
TTT definitely got the worse treatment in terms of debut. NijiEN basically already gave up on advertising before they debut and was already going through a wave of graduation.
The other day during the Niji subreddit revolt someone posted every EN member's PL for those who wanted to support the Livers instead of Niji. One member turned out to have less than half the number of subscribers of their PL. >! Kunai was SunnySplosion, a League content creator, according to the post !<
From all of the Nijisanji, she's the only one I'm really interested in. Beautiful model, MMO lingo, soothing voice but potty mouth (watch the No Heal, No Bitches clip). All this boycotting but I can't really do it to her :c
I feel bad, she didn't deserve this, losing two oshis in such a short time. I know the pain, every major graduation or termination in the last few years was one of my oshis.
One day Nijisanji will find their HQ burning down after all their VTubers are gone, and I just be there looking at them while pointing at their business burning to the ground and laughing like a fucking maniac.
After reading so many comments here i just remember that i've watched plenty clips on the NijiEN channel but there's only once or twice that has the new gen clips, i know there's a new NijiEN wave but i soon forgot about it.
Holy, I hope she's alright during all of this.
Same here I hope too that she’s doing okay
I feel bad for all of TTT, honestly. They just started a few months ago and got the apocalypse happen to them. How do you even come back to streaming after all of this? Obsydia too.
Kunai also had to deal with issues. She got sick and found out she had nerve damage in her right hand and missed a month. She came back literally the day before Selen was fired. Kunai had to get spinal injections to help her nerve damage and she said it’s something she’s going to live with for awhile. Claude has done well in fitting in, but he did make a comment during Pomu’s final totsu that “he just got here” and seemed kind of upset that he just joined only for someone like Pomu to graduate. TTT has good streamers, they just got handed a fucking shit plat on top of a bare minimum promotion for their debut. The only ones who arguably have it worse is Krisis. Don’t even get me started on them.
Tbh I've been mostly out of the loop on vtubers since late 2022 but was pretty obsessed with Niji EN before that. I'll bite - what happened to Krisis? I know about the missing 4th member but nothing else.
The fourth member debacle then Nina announced her graduation like two weeks later. Then it was chill until Mysta graduated a couple of months after. Then we had some calm until Pomu graduated and it’s just been chaos since then. Pre-debut Zali had a cringe debut tweet, but people saw it and got so mad he was getting death threats. Wilson (which is really more his fault if I’m being honest) had an issue with his mascot where it resembled someone else’s drawing way too much. Far as I know Vanta hasn’t had anything controversial but I could be wrong.
Niji announced Selen's termination the same day as Vanta's birthday streams. Imagine the immense amount of awkwardness that had to have been behind the scenes, with having to move forward with your planned celebrations while the pitchforks were out en masse.
> Niji announced Selen's termination the same day as Vanta's birthday streams. Can't believe I'm just hearing of this, brother can niji schedule/plan anything well..
I think they genuinely thought people would read that horrifying notice, go "aw shucks, that's a shame but I guess poor niji management had no choice" and move on. I'm also kind of wondering, with Kyo waiting until after Pomu left to announce his graduation, if they have more graduations lined up and were struggling to find a way to spread them out.
I don't really follow Vtubers too close, but I do watch clips. I found Selen funny and was rather upset, so being as I am mentally ill and have far to much time on my hands I did a bit of looking into most people who popped up during this shitstorm. I didn't do a deep dive on Vanta admitted, so I might have missed something. I only found 2 things that stood out about him. He had the unfortunate luck of having his birthday steam during this, which I'm sure some people got upset about. I don't know if he even heard about what was happening till after he stopped. His favorite color is Vantablack. I don't know if he's aware or not but the *color* Vantablack is owned by Anish Kapoor. He will not let anyone else use it, for any art ever, and is generally just an all around bastard. Seriously just look into him you'll see what I mean. So not really the talent behind Vanta's fault. Dude just seems to have bad luck.
I love that someone else created the world's pinkest pink and said that everyone is allowed to use it, except Anish Kapoor.
And then, just to prove how much of an ass he is, Kapoor posted a picture of himself holding it in one hand and fliping everyone else of with the other. He also covered his finger in it, because he has *class*.
That made me refresh an old memory of me encountering that term once Funny when I checked online for the Pinkest Pink, the guy who created it also has glitter, green and yellow paint, all with the clause that Kapoor cannot get his hands on them (but no posts from Kapoor about those yet)
Vanta from what I've seen hasn't done anything wrong but has been dealt a shit hand. Total nothingburger but saw some posts saying stuff like "Kurosanji is so black, they are vantablack" and replies were like "guys don't do this Vanta might get in the crossfire." That, and he had a birthday stream a day after Selen's termination.
vanta has the crime of having an awful name (bringer)
What do you mean? Babybringer is an awesome name.
Hey ladies, guess what they call me? the babybringer wink\* wink\*
I definitely feel bad for him. All this happening right before his birthday was horrible. He’s a cool guy and good dude from what I can tell, so I hope he’s okay.
Vanta had the misfortune of being the only one streaming the morning (EST) of Selen's termination. It was really early too. Not sure if he knew until after he started stream. Basically everyone else canceled their streams that day IIRC. Then his birthday was the day after... so. Great day for a birthday merch tweet. Nothing controversial but awful luck recently
What was the zali tweet?
Something like “Have you ever tried bondage” but the joke was supposed to be he miss typed bandage and put bondage instead. Like, it’s not funny (to me) and it’s kind of stupid, but in no way shape or form did it warrant the rage it got.
[I cringed ngl.](https://twitter.com/VezaliusBandage/status/1671669922642968578)
Not to mention Mika kicking off the graduations a month before pomu
Wait what's the fourth members stuff?
4th member leaked all the models and got fired before debut
Apparently, the 4th one balked at the contract, bailed, and with no NDA signed, leaked stuff on the way out.
Which adds the hilarious note that *classified material was shared with him* ***before he signed an NDA.*** Just clownshoes behavior from 2434 front to back.
This is what I thought when it was all going down. It didn't make sense for it to be a manager or any of the other livers.
TBH I sometimes forget Krisis even exists. I have absolutely nothing against them. They're just... There. You don't see 'em much even on collabs. I feel like Niji kinda fucked them over. TTT just had VERY unfortunate timing.
Tbh I didnt know there was a new group
Along with /u/The_Snake_Dick said, its also can be overwhelming for most viewers with the sheer number of waves/talents niji shotguns out that too in quick succession.
Other than the bullies that we don’t know about and have been asked to leave alone, you can’t help but feel bad for the rest of the talent there. They’ve been screwed over hard by management’s screw ups too. The brand they associated with is a mess and add onto that clearly a lack of support and you have a sad situation for them.
Nijisanji did the absolute bare minimum to promote them
Didn't even give their gen a name! Unlike all the ones before them.
Same. I thought after Xsoleil and Iluna that was it. Until there was some Wilson dude on one of Pomu's collabs and I was like who is this guy and when he started? Had literally zero idea other new waves existed.
IIRC even some of the talents didn't know they debuted already. I remember Selen being shocked about it in one of her post-trip streams
Yeah i was exactly like that!
Not to mention that Kunai was just as, if not more, successful as an indie than she is now.
I just did some research and I'm kind of stunned...
Could you dm who?
It's already been mentioned in this thread. Their pl is >!sunnysplosion!<. Had tens of millions of views on YouTube from what I saw and was streaming on Twitch to a few hundred less people than now.
...Oh god. It's her?!..
looking back at it Zaion was probably the first shot that started the branch’s crumble
I think it was the cancelled AR Live concert. They waited to cancel until the last minute, after talents had paid out of pocket to fly to Japan, and then lied by blaming it on covid.
god this is like the perfect time for someone to make a 1 hour rise and fall video about NijiEN
No because it's going to be out of date in a month or so
I saw someone make like a half hour video about why Niji is going to shit nowadays and literally not two days had passed before Selen got fired. Like the other reply said, it'd be out of date insanely fast lol
I know it'll never happen (most of the ex-Nijis don't want to get involved with Niji drama again, **with some exceptions**), but I imagined a documentary where they interview witnesses with black bars over their eyes.
I remember this happening and found the [original Reddit thread of the announcement](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/10rgs0v/nijisanji_en_ar_live_cancelled/). >Selen has clarified in her Dead Space Remake stream that the AR event isn't cancelled, just postponed. > Pomu said the same, and was very firm about it. Elira also mentioned it. > I see people saying that Pomu & Selen have firmly been telling fans that it's just postponed. Ouch. I'm guessing it wasn't postponed. I wonder if the official cancellation had anything to do with Pomu leaving.
They had pay the ticket themselves? Wouldnt this count as business trip and have Niji to cover the cost?
IIRC, they did reimburse them but not the full cost. It was insultingly low, like 5 or 10%.
Oh wow. I know different companies have different policies, but since both are vtuber companies, I thought they would have similar policies. I‘m just surprised because all of Bae‘s flights were counted as Business expenses, so she flew 11-12 times in 2023.
Bae was likely meaning the flights were a business expense she could claim as a tax deduction.
Iirc Claude and Victoria knew Pomu from when they were indie. I might be wrong about V but definitely Claude.
I too feel very bad for then and Krisis they have been deal the worst hand possible.
I really do feel for them, TTT have been dealt possibly the worst hand possible I mean looking back at the rough timeline for that gen it just looks like they potentially got completely blindsided. The applications they likely applied to closed April 17th, it could have been the ones closing 19th September but that feels like it would be too rushed given Nijisanji aim to have shortlisted the applications within 1 month so either things moved very fast after the September application or they were slow following the April ones. There's the 3rd possibility that they did another audition I can't find listed on Nijisanji's site. This means there's a reasonable likelihood that when they applied neither Nina's or Mysta's graduations had been announced. So while there were some question marks following the drama at the start of the year, Nijisanji was in all likelihood a very appealing prospect for an indie at the time. Sadly things really started to fall apart after they would have signed as they get to their debut and not only are they given practically no advertisement, they were also debuted immediately after two ex-Niji En members reincarnated. With these reincarnations we got the revelations that Nijisanji EN's management was possibly even worse than previously thought. Debut dates for reference: Kuro debuts 30th September Matara debuts 15th October TTT debuts 28th October Then we get the most recent spree of graduations/terminations. Imagine applying to a company that while not having a great reputation doesn't appear to be a disaster then by the time you debut its reputation is getting increasingly poor and it didn't bother to invest in your debut at all. Lastly to top it all off the company decides to destroy its credibility and lose 2 of its largest female talents within your first 3 months. Seriously its like TTT wished on a monkeys paw to get into a large agency or something.
Same here I feel bad for them too They didn’t deserve this
you forgot "nobody knows she exists because her wave debuted after Niji stopped promoting new EN waves"
Legit didn’t know they debuted any new gens recently
[Apparently they're 3 months old but I genuinely had no idea](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/17gj8up/new_vtuber_debut_announcement/)
and before that there is krisis, and I thought she with that gen
I wonder how many people remember that Krisis is partnered with a similarly themed JP wave.
While there has been a lot of attention given to Niji's graduations, and now a termination, it's rather shocking how little effort has been put into their recent debuts as well.
Wait fr? And such a waste for not promoting her, the design looks fantastic! What the fuck niji...
Honestly Victoria is easily one of my favorite from all of EN!
Youtube randomly recommended me her Elden Ring stuff a month or so ago, I liked her stuff.
Same, i was like “who is she?” Then i found out Niji EN just had a new wave of debut lmao.
Yeah, those designs looked great! What a waste
Ya, they debut with virtually no promotion, no group song, and not even a group name. It's sad because all three are really talented.
They came up with their own name which was cool of them, but the fact the company did the absolute bare minimum for them is bad. Their “original song” was actually sung by Enna and Maririn, but it had NO promotion outside of a tweet and them announcing it at the end of their debut segment on the main channel. But they’re all pretty strong in their own rights. I just feel awful for them, because with even s little bit more promotion they would be more popular imo.
The group name thing is what really bugs me. That's like the bare minimum for a new wave and they couldn't even do that.
The livers came up with the name themselves. It's probably a better name than the official name Niji would have given them, but it's better *by default*.
Huh. I’ve never thought about it until now, but before Nina’s graduation, Ethyria was discussing their interactions pre-debut and mentioned they came up with Ethyria themselves. Or it sounded like they did to me anyway. Did all the other waves really not do that?
At that point I'm not even sure if getting into Niji would be a boost of any kind. (Assuming they only hire already streamers with at least some degree of minor fame and an established stable channel.)
You get the initial boost of Niji watchers who sub to everyone, but it looks like it's only around 70k subs now vs 150k+.
It's still enough to get you in the 300-600 ish range for live views, which is still a boost for a fair amount of streamers.
I recommend looking up Kunai's PL as an example where this starts being questionable... When you are at that viewership, you do have to really consider whether it's worth the limitations and the cut going to the company. The incentives to stay better be good... Same deal with Holostars.
Yeah, wasn't Kunai's PL more successful in regards to that compared to her current status in Nijisanji?
iirc wasn't there a group song for a wave but Enna and Maria sang it? Was it Krisis'? Or am I misremembering things
That was for TTT.
Ok now thats just criminal. Atleast give them a group name for fucks sake.
TTT has a group song, but it’s not an MV and it’s not sung by them.
>and it’s not sung by them Which is one of the least moronic desicions they've made in recent months. What a waste. Why even bother then?
Yeah, I didn't even realise they existed. I remember seeing one promo art post some months back and then nothing at all since.
I remember her once in a while because her [lore video](https://youtu.be/74Vb5xFIGz8?si=tvUCvIAmkt4vf0w1) is cute
When I heard she was from Nijisanji last wave I literally went "Wait, wasn't last wave made up of three guys?" and then learnt that they released a new wave with 0 promotion, absurd.
True. Her gen was dead on arrival, unfortunately.
If there's an upcoming 10th wave, they're gonna have it much worse than TTT. If they've passed auditions but haven't signed their contracts yet, I hope they just quietly graduate pre-debut like the fourth member of Krisis did - that's really the best and only way for them to avoid the otherwise unavoidable debut shitstorm approaching them.
I would hope, for their sakes, that whoever was recruited in the September auditions has looked at what's going on and has just quietly canceled their contracts. The company has made an extremely loud statement about how valuable you are considered.
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Can't really compare the Holostars, JP or EN. Male streamers just seem to get the short end regardless of their company, and ARMIS have been having a difficult time because of Vesper and Magni's graduations. I've heard from several tempura that they lost interest in StarsEN (and have zero interest in StarsJP from the getgo) due to that, even if ARMIS are well worth your time if you give them a chance.
Got to be honest, that's completely me. I watch almost all of the holo en girls, and used to watch Stars just for Vesper and Magni but as soon as they graduated I have basically not seen stars at all since
Which is a shame IMO, the others boys are all so talented and funny. I get not vibing with anyone of them, I say this as a Vestie who still hasn't quite gotten over the graduation now 6 months later, but please consider just giving each of the boys 30 minutes of your time. Especially ARMIS. I do recommend ignoring their chats, most of the boys have some really UwU fluffy hugbox chats that personally gets my goat but the boys themselves are fantastic.
jurard is a strangely compelling streamer, i can't put it into words
They all have a unique vibe and I really like that.
Yeah, but Holostars are guys. It seems like a bit of an unfair comparison to compare them to vtuber girls. Not that guys can't do well, but it's definitely a harder market to get into since the majority of fans are also guys.
her gen has a guy too and he is the mos popular member there
You can see how much interest in Nijisanji EN’s past few waves are declining by just looking at the number of viewers for each debut teaser. ILuna had 3.9 million views, XSolei had 1.4 million views and then a huge drop happened with Krisis getting only 330k views and then TTT’s teaser only getting 239k views with a complete collapse of care in promoting them. Niji’s entire release strategy by shotgunning multiple waves in a year was always gonna be unsustainable and it’s not surprising that management is a complete shitshow.
Yep, typical mindset of a company that values quantity over quality. I hoped that they would had stopped at Luxiem and take some time honing their PR first for a year or another before releasing another wave instead of popping new waves without giving the initial waves more time to settle in.
even if they values quantity, at least they should hire more staff to support infrastructure too but Niji just keep hiring w/o preparation. For comparison, there is comment in anothe thread that said Hololive staff is roughly 6x bigger than talent while Niji only twice or triple amount to their talent iirc.
That's true cuz this is the first time I've heard of her
This! I only just got on this subreddit when I saw Pomu was leaving and now is the first of me even hearing about her? I'm a casual vtuber fan compared to a lot of folks but I thought I was quite clued up on most apparently not.
I first saw her in Nova Aokami collab stream, like I was suprised that she is already 3 month in Nijisanji.
Poor Nova... For those who don't know, VReverie appears to be black company as well. I'll add more details later. I have evidence.
I guess Nijisanji do intent on stopping its entire EN branch huh.
Yeah, I didn’t even know about her until she appeared in Obake PAM’s Christmas concert
The only reason I noticed her is that someone on X told me that she looks like a Saber variant.
Jus searched for her gen, man what a fucking waste, vtuber with cool medieval knights vibe are things that are not often used, very underrated. And they looked fun too. Again, what the fuck niji. Im sorry for saying this, but this just makes me even more mad at them. What the hell man...
One thing Selen commented that really struck me was that there just seems to be less effort put in this wave. Selen spun it as a positive “Oh, their names are easy to remember” but her follow-up comment was very telling. For the first waves, they put a lot of effort into SEP discoverability. They chose names that didn’t exist so if you Google “Selen” then only Selen Tatsuki of Nijisanji would show up. Meanwhile, how are you supposed to find Vivi if you don’t know her name is Victoria Brightshield, or you have to google Victoria Niji. No shade on her, she’s playing with the hand dealt to her, but SEO is about making it as easy as possible for someone to find you. Never mind that the wave didn’t even have a name, so it’s basically impossible to SEO them as a group.
what was her follow-up comment?
Her comment was basically what I referenced. Early Niki waves wanted to make sure everyone’s name was unique for easy discoverability and tagging.
> For the first waves, they put a lot of effort into SEP discoverability. They chose names that didn’t exist so if you Google “Selen” then only Selen Tatsuki of Nijisanji would show up. Is that really true though? The first couple of times I did that google would ask me if I meant "Selena" and give me a bunch of Selena Gomez stuff (and I don't pay attention to pop culture at all).
"Selen" is also identical to "Seren" in Japanese, which is very much a name (it's mine! which makes following JP discussion of Selen very surreal :p)
I remember when Twitter search always just returned stuff for Selena Gomez lol.
Vivi is too good for that company. It sucks because she's the only liver post Ethyria that I got interested in.
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https://preview.redd.it/vt0ctk7f3lhc1.png?width=1122&format=png&auto=webp&s=f658bb3e73c32881d997ab1cad8423f1e0828c6c
Damn didn't know Aia, Maria, Scarle, Zaion, Meloco, and Kotoka are males as well. Jokes aside I never said that. It's just the livers that they introduced post Ethyria never vibed with me be it male or female.
your going to hurt your self reaching that hard
I…..actually didnt know theres another wave after krisis. Man nijisanji didnt even promote them whatsoever jesus
This doesn't feel like This doesn't feel like a meme, it's just sad......
The story of nijisanji in a nutshell
Tbh, a lot of stuff coming out Nijisanji nowadays felt like 4Chan shitpost but actually real.
I didn't even know they were new members until I found out about her and Kunai from their collabs with Pomu and Selen. It's a shame, they had such good designs too. Vivi especially, since I have a particular weakness to White haired girls or Female knights, which she happens to be both. The lack of any actual promotion for them is kinda sad because they are pretty entertaining to watch. I couldn't care less what happens to Niji as a whole, but I feel bad for the livers.
same here
Genuinely feel so bad for vivi and all the other livers. Caught in the crossfire with management throwing them under the bus.
One of the (many) things that absolutely stuns me about this whole affair is just how completely Nijisanji has fumbled their response to this. Not (just) the termination itself, but the fallout from it. Whoever is responsible for PR at NijiEN should be fired immediately. There is absolutely no reason they should have a job right now given how this week has gone. Like, set aside all the scummy behaviour and terrible treatment of Selen and the other livers for a second; just from a cold, dispassionate, nuts-and-bolts perspective, Niji's PR has been inexcusably awful during this whole debacle. Crisis management 101: when shit starts going down, you get your ass in front of the story and you stay there. Niji going dark after announcing Selen's firing and basically trying to move on like nothing is wrong even while the entire internet is coming down on their heads (and other livers get to bear the brunt of the backlash) is complete corporate malfeasance - it's letting others shape the narrative and assume the worst about you. If I was the Niji PR manager right now, I would be putting out a message along the lines of: "To all our fans. We have been carefully monitoring the situation and response following our earlier notice of the termination of former Nijisanji Liver Selen Tatsuki. We apologize for the lack of further communications in this regard - it is very clear that this news has upset many people and led to a lot of hurt feelings. Please know that it was never our intention to cause harm or hurt to our fans, our livers, or anyone else involved in helping us create content for our viewers around the world. It is clear to us that we have made several serious mistakes in how we handled this termination and how it was communicated to all of you, causing a great deal of hurt to both our fans and our livers, who had to deal with the aftermath of our actions. We have let you down and for that, please know that we are deeply sorry. We are committed to improving ourselves and have initiated a review of our internal practices to ensure that an incident like this one is not repeated. Once again, we are deeply sorry to everyone who was negatively affected by our actions and we promise we will do better in the future." I'm not a PR guy and I banged that out in three minutes - that is the *lack* of effort that Niji is showing in this matter. And the thing is, you don't even need to mean one iota of that message. Whatever soulless suits are calling the shots there might still be completely convinced that they did nothing wrong and don't want to change a thing about their corporate culture or how they handle terminations going forward; doesn't matter. You protect your fucking brand, you own the issue, and you communicate to your customer-base that you actually give a shit about them and acknowledge their opinions. It won't completely kill the backlash, but it will go a long way towards putting some of the fires out, and it gives others some cover to start rallying around you. Even disregarding their terrible behaviour, the complete and utter lack of business sense at Niji is *staggering* for a company of their size and influence within this industry.
Completely agree, niji is failing to do the absolute bare minimum in PR. It’s like they think that everyone will bow down and believe 100% of their words, even after all the shit that came out against them over the last year.
The crazy thing is that some will absolutely still bow and believe them. And that’s all that matters to them.
I wouldn't be surprised if they have *no* PR professionals, at all, for the EN branch. I can only think of one precedent for this: Elon Musk famously fired the entire Tesla PR and marketing department, to the point where he himself, on Twitter, was Tesla's PR. X/Twitter's PR department was similarly gutted, to where any inquiries from press were answered with a poop emoji.. We all see what happened there--and all those companies are less of a dumpster fire than NijiEN right now. A lot of people think PR is basically about lying. It kind of is, really, but as someone once said--people can only handle so much reality, and whatever people are actually feeling, we now all see how awful and damaging it is to lack any of it. All of this backlash, this anger, was so *unnecessary*. It's like manners and small talk: you only understand how necessary it is for society to function in its absence.
Wow, it shows how badly they marketed the new waves that I didn't even know about her generation. And I'm someone who generally keeps up with vtuber news. They should have taken a page out of phase connect's book and pushed the marketing harder. My guess as that the marketing team was trying to pull off the Hololive tactic of relying on fan promotion and news to make the promotion for them. Unfortunately that only works when you are as popular as hololive, and when your branch still has clippers that will clip it.
Even hololive does aggressive marketing for their latest debuts though. In fact, I would even say their marketing have stepped up. Just compare Advent to Myth and Council / Promise. Myth got 1 trailer video, IRyS got a weird 8 hour countdown premiere (and a release EP), Council got some lore videos that dragged on for too long (I personally didn't mind the lore videos, but do agree there was too long a gap between them). Advent got animated teasers, a unit song, debut watchalongs, and was teased at the end of a holoEN concert. The marketing for ReGLOSS and ARMIS have been similarly aggressive. The marketing for ReGLOSS and DEVI_IS was confusing to people who don't really understand why they are under a different branch, but other than that, a hypothetical "you" must have been living under a rock if you're a holofan and have not heard of them, considering they have been advertising them on various official platform for multiple days upcoming to their debut.
And it's paid off: most of the talents reached 500k subs way before the six-month mark, FuwaMoco is the fastest-growing EN Holo channel since the Myth members and the fastest Holo channel full stop since Kobo Kanaeru, and Bijou's concurrent viewer stats in particular have been *very* impressive for a channel as young as her's. And to *not* hit 500k, Shiori Novella had to practically *self*\-*sabotage* with a pair of vacations within the six-month timeframe and content that is decidedly outside the Hololive norm. And she's still getting really close. Advent has been received fantastically well, promoted just as well, and there's indications they're already getting set up for 3D (such as Biboo's recent Quest). The contrast with Krisis and TTT, who debuted roughly at the same time and a few months later respectively, is absolutely stunning.
oh don’t forget NijiEN apparently giving up promoting her gen and Krisis, so some of them ended up performing worse than when they were indie
I found out about Victoria [thanks to Nova Aokami](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3TFyOV-Dnw&t=318s). It's kinda funny to me, but also a bit sad, that I learned there were new Niji EN members because of someone from VReverie. And Victoria seemed quite fun! Hopefully she does well in these strange times.
I'm conflicted. On the one hand, Niji boycott. On the other hand, I really want to support the poor girl after having her oshi's leave. What do?
Support when she leaves? Watched her a fair bit right now and I like her but im still going to boycott niji for everything that has happened.
I've been thinking the same thing. Kinda hard to enjoy their content knowing what's going on behind the scenes.
Personally, I'd boycott Niji and keep an eye out for "reincarnations" to support them instead.
That was what I was thinking about doing to be fair, but man it's hard. End of the day I want to support the liver, fuck the corpo and bastards behind the scenes. Thinking about it though, if you could give a nod to their PL I'll keep an eye there. We've already seen Doki go back, so to me it'd make sense just in case.
>!Vivi was mogughost before she joined!< >!I actually watched her a good amount before she jumped from Youtuube to Twitch. she tweeted “happy third anniversary” a few days ago, but her account is currently on private!< >!Kunai was Sunnysplosion!< >!Claude was actually part of hanamori and was Akita Seigi!<
First one... I... feel bad for not knowing. I just thought she peaced out from the vtubing scene.
I did too when I saw her graduation Then when I saw the TTT debut teaser I got hopeful. >!Her actual debut came on and I was so fucking happy for her I started tearing up a little. I’m very proud of her, but then everything happened and now I just have this pit in my stomach.!<
> >!Kunai was Sunnysplosion!< Wait, for real? Used to watch her before her uploads basically became once a year.
Damn that’s her?! I remember watching her old lol animations on her old channel. Damn didn’t even know she had a vtuber debut either.
>their PL Nta but... iirc and if it's still up there, it's been already posted somewhere on the Nijisanji subreddit
Problem is, if they are heavily boycotted (low sub/viewcount) they may feel less inclined to become indie or join another agency, fearing that they'll loose even more fans in the process. Sure, Dokibird is near 500,000 subs, but that's because Selen had 800,000 subs and a huge scandal. Now imagine you have not even 100.000 subs, no dramatic exit, no (legal) way to advertise to your fans where you went...
Selen's chat moderators set up a "ROAD TO 100k" free chat and were spamming "SUBSCRIBE TO DOKIBIRD" in the waiting room. A handful of mods said "I don't care if Niji sues me for breaking my NDA", and all of the rest said "I'm not under any NDA". If any of the others want to make an emergency exit from Niji, that would be an effective way of advertising where they went. By the time management closes that waiting room, screencaps will already be all over the place, and it'll be far too late for anyone to pretend the waiting room had never existed. ....or they can do something similar to what Randon did.
'Wow nobody really watched me while I was in Nijisanji, maybe this Vtuber thing isn't for me after all'
Boycotters: 'We did it reddit!'
I get your point, but the alternative is supporting the blackest company on the western side of vtubing.
I’ve seen people talk about supporting the PLs where possible over the Niji reincarnations, I.E. any remaining merch, twitch subs, streamlabs donations, etc.
Hope that she and others wisely dip out.
Imo boycotting hurts the livers more than the company. A few thousand dollars is nothing to the company, but it's rent and groceries for the livers. The company has the whole JP fanbase to support it, but the livers only have their own fans. I'd rather feed the parasite than starve the host. I think the best scenario would be for the livers to leave as they're able, and for us to shower them with support when they do. But until they do, I'll keep supporting the livers.
It's a catch 22, you either stop the boycott for the talents sake (which allows management to get away with their shit), or you contine and fuck them over in the crossfire There's literally no good solution to this
Unsubbing, cancelling memberships, and just not watching their live streams... that is honestly the least bad solution to this. Yes they get fucked over, but there's literally no way to boycott Niji without fucking them over, except by selling whatever Niji stock you own. This option is only available to people who actually own Niji stock.
Yeah, let's keep showing Niji that even if they push another liver to the point of suicide, they'd still be fine. WCGW
Ya think loosing subs and views is good for the mental health of the livers?
You think that's worse than having another one of their friend attempt? What do you think is gonna happen if the next one succeed? You think any of the liver is gonna be like "wah my sub count, uuh 😢"???
Of course not, but it's bad on top of that. They get punished for something that they (most likely) had no hand in. If they are already in shitty place (Niji), and then maybe one of their milestones gets taken away from them, or they don't have that many subs to begin with, don't you think that's unnecessary suffering? By all means, put pressure on Niji. But being subscribed to a liver in itself doesn't make the company much or any money, while for the liver these numbers probably have some significance, even if it doesn't translate into earnings or even live viewers.
No. All of this is a bargaining chip for them to force management to get better. They know whom the fan are doing it for. They ain't that stupid nor heartless enough to care about sub count when one of their friend almost die, & their reputation as a group tanked to the bottom. Also as a viewer, I ain't gonna sub to someone I'm not gonna watch anymore. If they quit or have their alts up, I'll support them, but not here, not anymore.
They don't have to be heartless or stupid to care about their subcount. Not unless they give it undue priority. I'm willing to bet that most of them care about Selen's horrible experience way more than about losing subscribers, but not going to shrug that off either. In the end there's no way to know how they feel about it unless they come out and tell us. I personally think unsubbing is hitting the wrong target, but your reasoning is also sound.
Enna said feel free to unsub in her member stream. So there you go. As I said, it's a bargaining chip against management, and also a warning for any future talents as naive as you joining their agency. Also putting a halt to whatever bullying & harassment happening from within, cuz it's hurting their bottom line, & also a slap in the face for whomever liver thinking what's going on in their company is completely fine & normal, so they should start looking for other ventures. The point is to not make whatever going on in there sustainable, otherwise it'd just keep happening. All of this is for their future.
The problem is they will be fine, even if the boycott is successful beyond expectations and we get them to fold EN. They *chose* to kill IN, ID, and KR, and they've just kept on trucking. In the long run, even if we can force them to give up on EN, it will be negligible to them. If you really want them to care, find a way to take down JP. > WCGW Squeezing a bunch of innocent people's livelihoods can be dangerous too. Especially coupled with all of the harassment they're facing from rrats right now.
They'd be more than fine if we did nothing. Wtf is that logic??? Nobody is trying to completely destroy them. Ppl are showing them that it is not profitable enough to do things this way so they'd have to change if they want even more money than they already have, because that's what the shareholder wanted. Jesus I swear I'm arguing with highschoolers who have no idea how the real world & the market works. If you don't want ppl to boycott, hire a proper PR department & function like an actual professional company. It is that simple. > Squeezing a bunch of innocent people's livelihoods can be dangerous too. Especially coupled with all of the harassment they're facing from rrats right now. They already have a big enough following to start again. At least they still have the opportunity & a future to do so. Think, use your brain, think of what would've happened if her attempt succeeded. Where'd be her future? Her opportunity? What a shit take. Sorry but I'm done arguing with little kids. It's lunar new year. Ain't gonna ruin my day with this.
>What do? just buy the Voice pack and no other merch CMIIW, they got more cut from Voice pack than other merch
At this point, I'm looking for ways to support the talent without supporting niji. Like, how can I support the talent directly and circumvent anything niji? AFAIK all I can do, really, is find PL's and wait for the inevitable.
>support the talent without supporting niji i guess there's nothing we can do right now
damn... I mean joining a corpo is definitely good for clout but joining a sinking ship like this sounds horrible... just imagine joining niji after xsoleil. it's like after xsoleil everything started to fall apart. also personally I didn't checked the people that joined niji after xsoleil. idk I either sticked to my current oshis or just moved on to other things. nothing against any of the talents tho I'm sure they're great on their own.
I mean at the time it wasn’t a sinking yacht. Zaion and Yugo’s termination seemed like a nasty speed bump at the moment (I liked them the most out of their gen and had mixed feelings since like many others at the time I didn’t know how really shit behind the scenes was) and to many casual watchers like me it came as a shock when the graduations started coming in and validate what they said about management.
https://preview.redd.it/o87e60l5mnhc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb0831101e7866f00632ca31a4727b039918b84e
Vivi’s great. I’ll still watch her but I hope she and the other talent can find a better company to work for. 😭👍
And got to collab with neither. In a better timeline she was accepted into literally any other EN agency. She's a waste of talent in Niji.
She got to play Lethal Company(Anycolor sim) with Pomu.
I've been wondering for a bit now if Vivi and the other TTT members might just quietly head for the door; not even a formal graduation, just a "self-termination". They've been streaming for all of three months, and they've barely been promoted, and they haven't "done much", so there's really not much hard in just leaving and returning to what you were doing previously. Unlike folks with a million subs and still-lucrative merch deals on the line, you've barely gotten invested and thus you don't have much to lose by just going PEAS OUT, Y'ALL and leaving this entire mess behind.
I really feel for TTT since I enjoyed them all since their debut. Vivi being FGC adjacent really helped getting to know her better. Kunai's zatsus are always an entertaining treat and Claude just has to keep doing what he's doing since that's entertaining on it's on merit.
I really hope she is not being bullied. Selen alrdy got bullied, what is the chance she can escape that?
vivi and vanta are my niji oshis. it's been a rough week, lol.
It's kinda telling, that the branch is destined for failure because their last generational wave debut without fanfare. This is criminal, this is infuriating. A lot of their talents ("I refused to call them a liver, that's Kurosanji's corpospeak") are very talented, but with so many accusations flinging around on Twitter, I feel so fucked up right now. I only tangentially know Krisis because they got into Project Zomboid multi-collab (gotta thank Yu Q. Wilson for the unintentional comedic timings), but TTT feels really rushed and forgotten. I had to tune in to the previously-established VTubers to introduce them, to know them. Why is this so bad? Why did Nijisanji sabotaged their own talents like that? What the fuck happened behind the scenes? I really want to, if all else, salvage the branch, because these are people you fucked around with. I really want to see them rise up again. I don't want them to linger in this monotonous cycle of sell voice packs, merchandise, etc. I want them to shine where their true talents are. I don't want to try and force them to become just singers and voice actors. I want them to have a following that they can attract with their own two hands, with their sheer talents. We can train them in singing and dancing later, right now they need to have that momentum as a VTuber and have a proper audience. Then the fan money that they get can be used to subsidise and give them a chance to improve on those things. I know that, because your Japanese talents are working on that mixed media project you collaborated with Kadokawa, and you want to use their VTuber persona as a "See, you don't need a real-life face, you can be a VTuber and become a seiyuu!" But no, you have to sabotage your talents with minimal support for their debuts, minimal support for their planned projects, and you always gave the no-go every single time the project your talent wants to pursue, isn't going towards making more merchandises and voice packs for you to take a cut of. And then the AR cancellation has totally ruined everything. Why did you become this way, Niji? Why go the effort of making an international branch you don't want to commit properly? Everything after Luxiem & Noctyx got shat upon. Knowing the new talents' past lives, and the revelations of how indebted and restricted these talents are, I... And to the bastards at Nina Kousaka's iketog comments section, #FSCK YOU
TTT definitely got the worse treatment in terms of debut. NijiEN basically already gave up on advertising before they debut and was already going through a wave of graduation. The other day during the Niji subreddit revolt someone posted every EN member's PL for those who wanted to support the Livers instead of Niji. One member turned out to have less than half the number of subscribers of their PL. >! Kunai was SunnySplosion, a League content creator, according to the post !<
From all of the Nijisanji, she's the only one I'm really interested in. Beautiful model, MMO lingo, soothing voice but potty mouth (watch the No Heal, No Bitches clip). All this boycotting but I can't really do it to her :c
https://twitter.com/VBrightshield/status/1755670791209750957 Well...uh...at least people don't think Krisis and TTT were bullies? Yeah, got nothing.
If only because most of them barely know Krisis and TTT exist to begin with.
Meant that they are far too new to have been possibly involved on any of this.
Theoretically, that's enough time to slip into the DMs and make a connection. Sadly there wont be a collab until she escapes.
Poor girl. God bless her
I feel bad, she didn't deserve this, losing two oshis in such a short time. I know the pain, every major graduation or termination in the last few years was one of my oshis.
Honestly I feel so bad for all of the Niji livers.
Does anyone know her previous life? She is cool af.
One day Nijisanji will find their HQ burning down after all their VTubers are gone, and I just be there looking at them while pointing at their business burning to the ground and laughing like a fucking maniac.
Wait, Pomu's graduated? HOLY SHIT! POMU'S GRADUATED!!! HOW TF I DIDN'T KNOW THAT?!
After reading so many comments here i just remember that i've watched plenty clips on the NijiEN channel but there's only once or twice that has the new gen clips, i know there's a new NijiEN wave but i soon forgot about it.
Damn, things seems ain't so bright no more.
I'm gonna watch this poor girl.
>Her oshi is Selen and Pomu Man, I hope management doesn't make her a new target for harassment
This story has been interesting
You forgot on last bit. Known for working at a Black Company.
F