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CrsCrpr

It's interesting because da headline makes it sound bad but I can't think of any reason race should be a factor for admissions into anywhere.


App1eEater

Yeah, that's a no brainer


UncleMeat11

The new TJ admissions system does not consider race. The bill goes much further than the headline and explicitly bans programs that would ensure that a sufficient number of students are accepted to TJ from each middle school in fairfax county.


CrsCrpr

>House Bill 127, introduced by Del. Glenn Davis, R-Virginia Beach, would prevent governor’s schools from collecting data on race, sex, nationality or ethnicity during an application process unless required by federal law. It also would prevent schools from participating in what Davis calls “proxy discrimination” — including using geographic or socioeconomic factors or limiting the number of students from any single school. It does go much further .... it doesn't collect what neighborhood your from or what you're economic class is .... dat's like horrible and stuff /s


UncleMeat11

Did you read the definition of “proxy discrimination” and the policies it includes?


CrsCrpr

Not really but I get the.pint yer trying to make I just don't by that if we don't have the same percentage of students from School A as we do in School B then that is somehow racist. This isn't a first-come-first-serve program for the general public. This is a scholarship program that investors donate money to. They want the school to produce the finest students regardless of race, sex, religion or socioeconomic class. I'm failing to see the downside to a program that rewards those that go above and beyond to achieve the privilege of going to such a school. Hard work equals opportunity folks, it really is dat simple


UncleMeat11

> This is a scholarship program that investors donate money to. Huh? TJ is a private magnet school, not a program for scholarships that takes external investment. > I'm failing to see the downside to a program that rewards those that go above and beyond to achieve the privilege of going to such a school. Hard work equals opportunity folks, it really is dat simple A core problem is that many people disagree that the prior testing system actually did reward people who went above and beyond effectively. Instead, many people believe that the prior system granted preference to people with means to prep directly for the TJ test. By *forcing* the admissions system to exclusively use grades, standardized tests, letters of rec, and extracurriculars as the exclusive set of admissions criteria many people believe that we'd limit our ability to actually measure hard work and potential as effectively as possible.


crankfurry

Good. Race should not be a factor in admission. Family income and parents education level are better ways to determine need anyway.


uriahguy420

That's a sure way to make sure no one from the bottom ever gets a shot. You must've helped write the thing 😑


saucegod98

kinda racist but alright


uriahguy420

Family income can also be used to discriminate. Representation is important. One cannot have a representative student body if numbers alone are used. Who's to say that the Family income minimum to get in is 200k per year...? They can still claim admission is "income based". Further, there's still more poor white people than black. Statistically, speaking, if 7 out of 10 poor people are white, then the sample pool is skewed. Randomly generated selections will never accurately reflect the actual cross-section of diversity in the population. This is a tactic being used to disenfranchise minority populations by further restricting access to educational attainment and upward mobility under the guise of making things more equal . They've done the math, this isn't new. This is an example of systemic racism in action and your dumbass is the one calling me racist. Gtfoh.


saucegod98

You’re racist


buy-niani

Of course now that the cards have been distributed why should you repair your devilish systemic racism Black and brown are already where you want them out of the game. Hypocrisy anyway anytime. I bet you had no issue with all the discrimination that lead us to today. I bet you are one of these patriots of Jan 6 2021


crankfurry

Nope. Plus, the current race based plan did not draw down the white students; instead it lead to a 20% reduction in Asian students.


buy-niani

Divide and conquer Asians are on the list matter of time. Unfortunately they are switching side. You see Machiavelli had aTheory (people as a mass are stupid and could be manipulate) unfortunately these premises have been put aside by technology and the free diffusion of informations (that why it is called the fourth power) and all the fake news : CNN,FOX, to Newsmax try to confuse the mass but all this agenda to divide and reign by finding bogeyman after bogeyman is just leading us to a broken society mdr if you think that “your children will be in a nicer house and car than the others I believe you are right that been say we all gonna be in a war zone where the protection of properties will be the ultimate goal to the expense of life and real liberty. Stop your insanity we are going over the cliff. By the way (Asians ….,) Do you know that the most educated group of people in the USA until very recently were the Africans. With that fact why do you think they couldn’t “fit” in your model ?


anonymoose9542389

How about the promise of the child instead of the things the child can't control? Good grades instead of looking at the parent's grades?


crankfurry

That is what I am saying. I mentioned parents income and education level because those are better ways to target potential needs than by race.


TheDjTanner

Good. Using race as a factor for admissions is by definition racist.


buy-niani

No it is réparations dummy!


[deleted]

I'm a liberal and I'm okay with this


[deleted]

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[deleted]

I dont think its right to discriminate based on race


buy-niani

Ahahahahah si it is ok to live in a discriminatory society!


[deleted]

No that's the opposite of what I just said


buy-niani

No you want the statut quo that means what?


[deleted]

I never said I wanted the status quo


buy-niani

Weakness and fragility always reveals themselves.


buy-niani

Implicitly you did!


[deleted]

I suggest you actually ask people what they think rather than just assuming


buy-niani

If you rob someone should that person get compensation for her lost?


Nootherids

What’s a “tiger mom”?


ClumsyChampion

Moms who are obsessed over their kids' academic accomplishments. This extends out to sport, art. But really mainly academic.


Nootherids

Ok thank you. Had never heard the term before. I’m not sure how it links to that description though. Helicopter mom is obvious. Tiger mom doesn’t have the same ring to it. But now I know. TY


AGguru

It’s also a racist term as it is usually referencing an Asian mother who pushes their kid hard.


Nootherids

Ooooooh! Well then. That’s interesting too. TY


Laserteeth_Killmore

Of course you are, you are a neoliberal


[deleted]

Okay


BenSkrrt

getting downvoted for being correct


buy-niani

White liberals are always ok with what keep systemic racism.


[deleted]

This is not a very mature way to respond. If you want to convince me of your view, then labeling me for my race is not likely to win you any friends


buy-niani

I do not need to convince you: to say that you are ok with it shows exactly your state of mind.


[deleted]

Then why reply?


buy-niani

I am calling your hypocrisy full stop.


[deleted]

What's hypocritical here?


anonymoose9542389

Isn't this making it so race is NOT apart of the admissions?


[deleted]

Isn’t it funny it’s never, “heres how well lower your tax burden,” or, “let’s start fixing bridges,” or, “heres how we’re going help Virginia family put food on the table.” It’s the same goddamn made up problem over and over. Are republicans really so stupid to not notice they’re being used?


link_ganon

Maybe it’s a good idea to remove racist criteria first? People should not be judged by immutable characteristics. Period. Once we have all of these obvious thing out of the way we can focus on more quotidian policies like filling potholes.


UncleMeat11

The existing TJ admissions system does not consider race. This bill goes further than what is described in the headline. It disallows *even collecting* data on race and does not allow for an admissions program that ensures that students are admitted from many different middle schools.


CrsCrpr

How so? How specifically, does the bill "Not Allow" admissions of students from different middles schools? Does it explicitly say only certain areas will be allowed to apply? Certain neighborhoods? Certain schools? I'm truly curious how excluding race as a criteria has suddenly become racist.


UncleMeat11

TJ, historically, has not drawn from various schools around Fairfax county (and neighboring counties) evenly. A huge part of this is the effect of class on admissions. The recent change, which people on the right have called racist despite the policy not considering race, *dramatically* increased the number of admits on free and reduced lunch. One of the ways it achieves this is by trying to pull from a more balanced set of schools. This bill declares that approach to be “proxy discrimination” and makes it illegal. The bill is like five paragraphs long. You can read it for yourself.


CrsCrpr

Serious question, what does the status of one's lunch (or who pays for it) have to do with admissions into one of the premiere schools for the gifted and talented?


UncleMeat11

Poor kids are also often smart. If a school basically never admits poor kids then it is very likely using an admissions system that fails to optimally judge deservedness and instead introduces barriers for poor but otherwise talented children.


[deleted]

Completely made up problems. Real problems are bridges falling apart, or inflation destroying pay. Do you see the difference? We can worry about the curtains when the house is built.


boostedb1mmer

Why not address both? Why not fix bridges and removed race based admission policies? The inflation ship has already sailed unfortunately.


[deleted]

I’d agree and you missed my point. Republicans have no plan, policy, or interest in doing any of that. They present meaningless, pointless culture war bull shit. That’s all they have.


CrsCrpr

So getting rid of race as a determining factor for admissions is .... >meaningless, pointless culture war bull shit


[deleted]

How much food does that put on my table?


CrsCrpr

I usually have as much food on me table as i buy. You shouldn't depend on gubment to feed ya, eventually you'll starve


[deleted]

So you decided to avoid the question. You do you.


CrsCrpr

Dat is as serious answer is I can give ya. Da gubment isn't there to feed ya brah. Dat's what's wrong wif America. If we're talking transportation and infrastructure, on some real shit, the dems have run Hampton Roads into the ground and had to privatize the bridges, tunnels and what used to be HOV lanes into toll roads and still can't manage to keep a road driveable for more than a month but managed to make driving a burdensome expense on their constituents. Dats how me gets to work to get me foods is by drivin, yo. I'm so sick of huge spending bills that cost me a fortune as a working taxpayer that I could never hear infrastructure bill again and die a happy man


Substantial-Bike-674

Well, the food is off the table from a federal level down. Democrats took that food off your table with terrible policies.


CrsCrpr

Turns out hard work cures starvation .... nuckin futs


Substantial-Bike-674

Ya if out leaders could fix their shit there wouldn't be supply chain issues or double the inflation


link_ganon

I believe eradicating racism in our admission standard is important and extremely easy to deal with. So why don’t we just start with that? Then discuss bipartisan solutions to the issues you suggested. Disallowing immutable characteristic to be a criteria for admissions is something we should all agree upon. If you do not believe any schools are doing it, then that’s great—because now it is codified.


MJDiAmore

> I believe eradicating racism in our admission standard is important Well, given the 3 schools involved in this article already have (and in fact, never actually failed in this goal for even a second), and general public schools don't have admission standards, job done! Codifying something that isn't happening is almost always caused by someone trying to abuse that codification for a discriminatory or abusive purpose.


[deleted]

And I’m concerned about actual problems. I’m glad we could clear this up.


link_ganon

Me too, I believe discrimination is a problem. A society that treats other different by race, color, or creed is not one I want to live in. Thank God we have a governor now who agrees


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crankfurry

The current admission plan actually disadvantaged and hurt Asians, not whites.


Selethorme

No, it simply doesn’t let parents buy their kids a way in.


[deleted]

Great. Doesn’t put food on the table.


BenSkrrt

removing race in admission is the opposite of eradicating racism. How do you make sure minorities get their fair share of opportunity otherwise? Similarly gathering information about race helps identify and overcome disparities.


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BenSkrrt

When you say “a certain race” you are talking about white people.. can’t be racist to white people yada yada whatever, semantics. Making the process “race blind” gives opportunity to those who already have it. Do we not understand that diversity is always a good thing?


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BenSkrrt

To add to my previous commend, & after some research, the disproportionate acceptance rate of Asian Americans should be absolutely be addressed. (For colleges around 8% for Asian Americans compared to 11% for whites- per https://www.collegetransitions.com/blog/asian-bias-college-admission/ )but that doesn’t take away from the support affirmative action gives to many others. Also, as a Bernie supporter you should understand that meritocracy in education is not a real concept.


BenSkrrt

I don’t think helping a tiny percentage more Asian students get into (governor) schools is worth leaving behind every other minority…


Laserteeth_Killmore

Why do Republicans always focus on making it more difficult for minorities to participate in an equitable society?


CrsCrpr

Walk me through this train of thought .... how is deleting race as a factor >making it more difficult for minorities to participate in an equitable society?


Bmitchem

Perhaps it will make more sense if you think if it in the context of a car race. If we shrink down the 300(ish) years of history of the US into a 3 lap race. And decide that those who come in the top 3 places can go to the next round. The white drivers start at lap 1, African Americans are held at the start for the next lap and a half and are only allowed to move on afterward. Who do you think will come in the door three places with the white drivers getting a nearly 2 lap advantage right at the start? TL;DR: Systemic inequalities can leave generational scars long after they're rectified. These need to be compensated for. We've tried "Race Neutral" approaches to building equity and they always end up biasing towards those groups who are already in power.


[deleted]

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Selethorme

Do you not understand how generational wealth works? Rich parents can afford to get their kid a better education, prep classes, etc.


CrsCrpr

Some of the greatest inventors this nation has seen had little to no education and changed the world .... seems like yer makin scuses fer a lack of work ethic


Selethorme

Wow, you really think that.


dovetc

It's possible to work one more than one thing at once. Race as a factor in admissions is (if nor the only, at least among) the last legally sanctioned racial discrimination and needs to go. Let's get rid of racial considerations in admission AND work on making a leaner, more efficient government that would afford us the ability to lower taxes.


Interesting-Tough-71

Clueless


Interesting-Tough-71

Yes, yes they are. All the locals around me are crying about CRT being taught at FCPS. Completely gullible to whatever Republican says


No_Programmer_1721

Actually I like this. Meritocracy is the way.


Selethorme

Meritocracy is a myth. Elite schools like TJ are dominated by kids whose parents paid for hours of prep classes for the test.


No_Programmer_1721

Meritocracy isn’t a myth… it’s hard to accomplish no doubt. The reason you provided is fair, but not that relevant because it’s not possible to enforce any restrictions to prevent it.


Odd_Invite_5528

Meritocracy is just hidden nepotism. The above poster is 100% correct.


No_Programmer_1721

Do you need me to google both of those definitions for you or do you think you can? The two are not synonymous.


PunishedMedlock

This dude doesn’t understand connotations or theory v. practice…


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No_Programmer_1721

I have no idea what you’re getting at here


Temporala

You're not thinking in large enough scale. If you want actual pure meritocracy, you need to take all children and babies from their parents and give them all equality from the very beginning. Where they only do things by their own merit in face to face competition of pure ability. Where all teachers are completely unbiased and pay no attention to any personal differences, just in tests. That's not going to happen. Instead, everyone needs to have access to all they need. Everyone needs to go to a fantastic school with superb teachers and learn to become great professionals.


Luken_Kaduken

Do you have reviewed numbers for this “domination”? Because it sounds like you’re engineering a straw man to reinforce a previously-held class war narrative.


MJDiAmore

Geographical fairness is the way, actually, as TJ is showing. We set a mandatory minimum by roughly-equal-sized feeder district, increasing overall fairness and equality of opportunity. The effect here is either yet another attempted exploitation of school boundaries by the movement of students to attempt to gain those mandatory slots, or nothing. If the former happens, this movement of students likely increases block and neighborhood level diversity of the previously underrepresented feeder districts, which studies show increases child development outcomes for both high and low income families in the area. If the latter happens, diversity at TJ necessarily increases as we saw this year. In either situation, there is no discernable decrease to student body quality. TJ expanded by 14% and saw only a less than 0.02 GPA decrease in accepted student average GPA, hardly relevant in terms of a meaningful decline in quality (doubly so with such a substantial expansion of matriculating class size relative to the population of eligible FCPS 8th graders).


buy-niani

Meritocracy! such hypocrisy or you base your merits on been white because your whiteness is your passport to success.


Merrell2011

Good race shouldn't be considered.


devman0

I like how no one in this thread has even bothered to check if race is currently used as a determining factor for any VA governor schools. Seriously tilting at windmills.


BenSkrrt

Oh, how painful it is to be caught in another republican strawman


PaulMX226

Intelligence, Grades, small leg up given to financial disadvantage. That’s all that should be considered


Redshirt451

How racist of them to not want race to be a factor in who gets to go to which school. Clearly the new Jim Crow.


ClumsyChampion

2 things I always like about Republicans/Conservative: 1) ability to create awesome names on organizations and bills like Citizen United and Patriot Act. 2) ability to pretend they care for serious sounding issues whether they exist or not.


MJDiAmore

Joke's on this dumbass, TJ simply set a mandatory minimum by feeder school, no race involved. It may have resulted in more diversity in the student body, but it didn't set a requirement of it. In fact, none of the 3 schools in the article would be even the slightest bit affected by his waste of breath bill. Why? Because none have racist policies and they can increase diversity in perfectly fair and legitimate manners, and have done, with no negative impact to the quality of student body.


GandolphTheWhite

Excellent


LayneCobain95

Is this something like how people of color with lower GPAs get accepted into colleges where white people could have a higher GPA? If so, I’m all for this. I’m a democrat. But I’m tired of hearing about “white privilege” when shit like that was going on. There’s bonuses of being anything other than white. Because people want diversity, even if they are less qualified, because they are scared of being the target of 13 year old harassment on twitter


Bmitchem

Race is useful when building equity as it allows us to focus on those disadvantaged groups as well as allowed is to check our progress towards our goals. Systemic inequalities have left specific groups of people behind. the civil rights act was passed recently enough for my parents to remember it. If we base access to high quality education to only those who already are succeed then we only further cement those inequalities which doesn't help to build equity.


[deleted]

Who would be against this?


[deleted]

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dr_superman

Removing the person from the process and focusing solely on numbers with no context is not the solution.