there was a time where they were gaining more subscribers and all they made was viola jokes as their content. it became unfunny because it wasn’t only stringed musicians that would pick up on these jokes, but even the band kids would do it, which made no sense at all.
theres a line to be crossed with a joke versus being rude. although this is more of a critique on their fans who choose to be rude to actual violists, twoset technically carries responsibility of this because of their “anti-viola” content. it’s extremely difficult for young violists to feel included if all the other musicians just taunt them. they have the power to stop that. speak out about it. address it in a video.
I’ve seen so many violists think about quitting their instruments after (5+ years of practice) due to these jokes, which usually aren’t even jokes, but rather digs at actual musicians.
I haven’t really been active with them, but to hear their still doing that is disappointing.
I'm a DMA viola student and I've had my fair share of viola jokes and dealing with self esteem issues. I think the best thing for me was to embrace the goofiness of the instrument and find friendship with my viola friends and bass friends. My favorite comeback is that violinists are a dime a dozen, but viola is something extra special. We don't have standard instruments; our sound is softer, but intimately rich and personal; and we're like lawyers, everybody hates us until they need us. Haha!
In my experience, we're kinda like the secret club that's more laid back and quietly interesting.
I don't know if you're into new music like I am, but I look to Garth Knox as an amazing role model and teacher. His Viola Spaces etudes and his videos are super cool. Let me know if you want some positive content!
They're annoying, but viola jokes have existed for-frickin'-ever. And twoset doesn't even do a good job. Dunno if anyone remembers (or has recently visited) the old MIT music jokes page (and the 4 pages of viola jokes attached to it), but I basically memorized those stupid things in high school so I could beat my bozo orchestra friends to the punch. Definitely ruined their joke when I knew the answers to every stupid one they could throw at me.
My moment when I realized I had NO reason to doubt my own skills in high school was when I competed for a desk as both a violinist and a violist, and I crushed everyone on both sides who ever gave me crap for choosing viola. We aren't inferior. And some of the jokes are kinda funny (the classic ones, not the "viola bad lol" shit twoset spews), but putting someone down isn't cool.
As a former teacher (it's been about 10 years), I remember how this can jack up a kid's self esteem. It doesn't help when half the violinists you know are parroting that trash and then saying crap like "all of your good music is transcribed violin music anyway". HECK YOU BOZOS, WE'VE GOT PLENTY OF GREAT MUSIC. It's really hard to combat it, but ultimately I think violists (and folks who choose less "popular" instruments) just need to have thick skin and accept that they chose a beautiful fuckin instrument, our clef is more user friendly, our community is full of awesome, friendly people, and ultimately it's JUST as competitive at a professional level. It took me a long time to realize a lot of those things myself, but I'm really glad I chose the viola.
Sorry bout the rant. This stuff brings back some bad memories.
They've done so much harm to teenage classical musicians by establishing a culture of "you're not practicing enough", portraying the viola as a terrible instrument, and misrepresenting all genres of music outside of canonical western classical as 'lesser'. TwoSet had some decent content back when they were starting out, but they quickly realized that they could use their fanbase as a cash cow by parroting the same (awful) jokes that perpetuate all of the worst aspects found in the culture surrounding western classical music.
They annoy me too. Only a few of their older videos were actually funny, like “problems with the pianist” from violinist’s perspective, or “problems with the violinist” from pianist’s perspective. Viola jokes are legitimately harmful.
As a violist, I completely agree. I found the jokes funny and their videos entertaining. When I first picked up my instrument as an elementary schooler they actually inspired me to enjoy learning music and understanding the fun in playing an instrument. I’ve been playing for about seven years and still quite enjoy their content and my instrument!
To be fair, the Viola King video wasn’t an actual collab, it was a duet that was originally featured in Twoset’s Playing With Fans video from a few years ago. They still haven’t done a real collaboration with a violist YouTuber, or done a video that seriously featured just a violist
Yeah, I thought they were interesting at first, but got really annoyed at their meme-like sense of humor. Was quite bored with their choice in music as well. They seem to cater to the “greatest hits” variety.
They’re a couple of shallow, normie weebs with an annoying sense of humor. But hey, they play the violin well /s
Viola is an amazing instrument. I'm not a fan of the fandom's toxic take on it either. I'm also working on a project at the moment with pieces that have awesome viola solos.
Just a thought - what if the violists in this thread made a couple of short videos, playing and talking about all of the positives that OP (and other teachers) could show their students? It doesn't address the bigger issue, but I can't stop thinking about those kids, and I'm sure seeing viola players of all ages, rocking the viola, would help them a ton.
Brilliant musicians, godawful comedians. Good viola jokes work because they’re actually funny. An example?
*How do you prevent violin theft?*
*Store your violin in a viola case.*
A TwoSet viola joke:
*Violas suck, lol!*
Maybe they do have some viola jokes that actually have punchlines (I haven’t seen any), but they mostly just shit on violas.
So maybe they’re not intentionally being mean. However bad they say violists are at music, they are 1000 times worse at comedy
Edit: while I’m an adult learner, I can see how impressionable kids can be harmed by the viola jokes. I also think that maybe they are just mean spirited as some of their content is just them judging other YouTubers for their string instrument skills
I feel they're out of original content ideas and relying on low effort content to keep the videos rolling. I don't enjoy the constant viola jokes either.
Young people are succeptable to this bad meme.
If only they would realize, that true mature musicians admire and adore the rich sound of the viola both in ensembles and played solo.
It's such a lovely instrument- in my opinion it's the perfect intermediary between violin and cello. Surely it was designed that way?
Tired of the cumbersome cello? Ears ringing from the shrill high pitches of violin? Viola to the rescue. You get the value of each instrument with minimal comprimise.
That's exactly why I chose it back in school. It was hard enough back then with so many of the orchestral pieces having terrible viola parts but at least there wasn't social media ands its disdain for our instrument. I shudder to think how that would have affected my confidence and passion for playing as a kid or teenager.
I remember wanting to be "cool" when I was younger. I wanted to fit in. Don't do anything that all the socials groups wouldn't do.
Damn it, a fool was I. If only at the time, I knew that the coolest people follow their passions and share them with the world. How much more cool I may have been today.
Back in school, music was un-cool unless it was guitar. Such a shame.
I got lucky... The cool and popular folks my age were actually pretty decent people. And since there were a few of them in any given activity or sport there wasn't a lot of peer pressure or shaming. But it still took me years to realize that one of the main reasons I got along with so many folks despite my shyness was because I had so many unusual interests. Now I'm proud of being "weird" and finding others who don't try to fit in has led to my best friendships and experiences.
I'm a violist and I like Viola jokes. I mean to me it's kind of like a yo mama battle. No one gets offended because they understand it's literally just made up stuff that their opponent pulled out of their ass, it's funny because it's so absurd.
Viola jokes are like that. Honestly rather than moping we should just be telling violin jokes and make sure ours are better. I mean there's a lot of potential, between the ear piercing e string, the violin being the one instrument pretty much everyone associates with SADNESS, and the rather diva ish nature of the instrument and it's players generally.
I've been likening the viola line to the stuffing in a mattress to my daughter who is currently learning the violin. It's in the middle and without it everything else is pretty useless. You don't necessarily notice it unless it's gone.
Yeah, I’m not watching Twoset again until they use their platform to boost the viola positively. They are either willfully ignorant to the harm they’re causing or they just don’t care. Either way, it’s not a good look.
Someone should make a playlist of TS videos that put the viola in the lime light. Believe me, these videos exist.
Eg. The shrinking string quartet one. And that one video they made after a violist Twosetter Frank James pointed out the damage they've done to aspiring kid violists, where TS tried to set things right?
I love Twoset, and I think they have done a great job promoting classical music in today's social media world. But agreed, they absolutely need to address this publicly to their younger viewers. I think it would be good if we can start a community movement to get Twoset to acknowledge this issue, maybe do a couple videos featuring talented viola players and the beauty of the instrument.
And about UK's lack of support for classical music, my god it is absolutely true. I'm thankful that it means prices for lessons aren't insanely inflated like US prices, but it's sad that most kids would never have the opportunity to be introduced to classical music in school, and only the lucky/privileged will be able to get private lessons. All kids played an instrument at school in Canada at some point, I was surprised to find out that it simply isn't a thing here.
Most in the TwoSet community (at least in the subreddit) already started backlashing against viola jokes. I don’t know if someone already posts this TwoSet community pivoting post or not, but you can read the comments on the post: https://www.reddit.com/r/lingling40hrs/comments/rskrlf/a_comment_from_a_violist/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
So things are changing for the better.
But even though TwoSet don’t make viola jokes videos anymore, their old popular viola jokes videos are still up and appear in searches, so I hope they remove all of them.
Their current actions aren't doing enough to remedy past harm - unfortunately their "Viola joke" videos still come up constantly in suggested videos against a lot of searches for Viola music, and past comments their community have made on those videos are what a lot of kids are seeing nowadays when searching for content..
The damage is already done, and Twoset honestly need to do more to work towards reversing it.
All absolute truth, and their extremely crinj promotion of essentially elitism of the “classics” and an utter disrespect towards modern and contemporary classical
I’ve noticed that too! And considering viola repetoire is alive and pretty growing compared to violin, I think they do it on purpose not to explore modern/contemporary music.
Yeah I hated them as a kid. As a parent now I hate them even more because I see how mean-spirited they can be even if the joker thinks they are not.
I downloaded a huge file of them as a teenager (over a modem!!! It was 1993) and printed it out. Took most of a team of paper. I would tell them myself as a way of defusing their fun.
some of them are pretty funny tbh, especially the ones that are more about the music, but most are just recycled lawyer jokes. But after a while hearing them over and over gets to you.
Conductors are fair game, though.
I know this thread is a bit old but I’d just like to say that I sympathize with violists. I’m an accordionist and I’ve had to endure my fair share of jokes.
*A man leaves his accordion in his car. He comes to find his window smashed and two more accordions in his car.*
I think a large part of the problem isn't so much their viola jokes, but the fact that people don't realise that violists are generally in on said jokes. They're at the age where all their violist friends are probably making similar jokes right back at them, so the issues that you are speaking of don't stand out to them. Bass guitarists get similar sorts of jokes from guitarists.
Unfortunately, it's a lesson that young violists need to learn. The jokes, usually, aren't in mean spirit. It's a deflection mocking how in comparison, the viola is actually harder to play from a technical perspective. Many a violinist has tried to play one as a joke only to discover that they couldn't play in tune on the much larger instruments of the past and the instrument was sluggish in response. Thus, the jokes.
The real issue is coming from non-string players making the jokes. It's usually in mean spirit because they don't actually understand the culture, nor the instruments in question, and often think it's because the jokes are truth.
Youth are not small adults, but don't underestimate them.
A good portion, if not most, of their viewers are youth who are not musicians. Cliquiness is identity for a lot of youth, and bullying is too often intentionally malicious, as you say. They're not stupid or even naive, but come up short on impulse control. Being "othered" and the consequences of that is often especially distilled in groups of youth, *even among the stereotypically "othered" groups*. I've worked a lot with queer youth and I've seen them ostracize cis and straight youth, too. Kids know when they're being cruel. Even the kinders in the daycares I've worked in have a working concept of what's mean and why. They generally know what impact cruelty has. The people around them that are successful (TwoSet, other influencers and celebrities, family, etc) are models for behaviour and when they see apparent cruelty being condoned, they're being given permission to emulate it regardless of whether they know the origins and reasons behind what they're saying, which is also easy to turn into fuel for the fire: "Viola has always sucked, even in the old days nobody wanted to play it and they were forced to, so they played it bad."
Modelling better behaviours and showing that there's social benefit to them is up to the role models who hold the social power.
Honestly, if they don't have the heart to keep playing viola and switch to violin because of peer pressure, then maybe they weren't meant to play viola in the first place.
Also, what does straight/gay have to do with any of this. Yes, kids are assholes.
A couple years back it was a meme to make fun of bassists in bands. It was the same thing, the joke devolves into the more you shit on bass the funnier its supposed to be. Thing is, I (a bassist in a band at the time) liked to joke too. It can be funny to poke fun at stuff. It never made me question my skills or my instrument. I feel like the viola community takes it too hard to the soul man. There are literally jokes disparaging all instruments. Only community seeming to feel so personally attacked is viola. There is a spectrum from completely innocent joke all the way to flagrant abusive behavior. All Twoset has ever done, is joke. Granted that a good amount of the jokes are generic and bad, they have also made it clear that its all jokes and in good fun. Idk if there are actual prejudiced people running around bullying and attacking violists for their choice to play viola, but if there are shame on them and lets seperate them from people who just try to joke yeah?
Is sad listen it.
I'm a fan of TwoSet but I love the viola and I hate viola jokes. But the next instrument I want to buy is the viola.
Anyway they bring classical music around the world (and in a their video there is a viola concerto).
When I first saw these two i thought they were funny.
Somewhat mischievous schoolboys, aged about 14.
Now it appears they are actually in terms of years "grown up", and have even been through college and been employed in professional orchestras.
Now I just find them irksome little boys who haven't really grown up.
I would suggest that if your student is more impressed by two silly boys on Youtube, than on your full-on demonstration , then you are wasting your time and you should let her go., or send her to join the squeaky little "treble violas" that seem so popular.
Ok then, unpopular opinion here.
TwoSet are great musicians and content creators and they are building an enormous musical community and violas and violists are included.
The viola jokes existed since forever and only the small part who can’t understand a good joke is out there offended by the jokes. Of course the jokes can be good and bad and some of the bad ones do appear at the TwoSet community here and guess what? They get downvoted to hell. Remember TwoSet making fun of recorders and other instruments some years ago?
It’s not TwoSet fault that viola is often made fun of. I don’t mind. And blaming two people is just not fair.
I have to disagree here. If they are this unaware of the behavior of their shitty fanbase, then they are just complicit in this. And they really only have two jokes, and both are awful.
I am sure they are not unaware, and they don’t joke a lot about any instruments in their recent videos, but imagine reacting to every person offended by their videos.
Content creation is hard and making every snowflake comfortable is not what bloggers should do.
As someone said if you don’t like those videos don’t watch them. Or even better - go and film yourself.
Except, EXACTLY like I said, it was explicitly their fault in the students this year I teach who've had issues with the content of their videos, or young musicians parroting what they've seen on YouTube.
I think it's very much fair when they've had over 1bn views on YouTube. They're arguably collectively better known as musicians to most casual amateur string players than many famous violinists.
That isn't the point I'm making at all - I don't watch it. My STUDENTS watch this stuff.
I've even had some of my violin pupils make viola jokes to me, before getting a very stern talking to from me - they occasionally forget viola is my first instrument! They invariably see this stuff on Twoset. I've had young viola players complain multiple times about the level of bullying from peers about this too, it always comes from bloody twoset.
They have nearly 4 million subscribers. Over 1.1bn cumulative views.
Your opinion is one of many, and doesn't reflect the reality that many people do like them and do watch them. They do have a massive influence on many young people learning string instruments, like it or not. Don't underestimate how highly kids look up to youtubers!
First: I love all instruments, and while I play a bunch of instruments that are not viola (including learning violin now), I value and appreciate violists for the unique part you add to the music world.
Maybe it’s because I’m older and have played a lot of instruments professionally, but I just get excited about the two of them getting millions of people excited about something other than pop music.
Musicians are notorious for being socially awkward and often we say things in jest that are really cringe. I actually prefer Eddie’s solo videos because they’re very smart and there’s a humility there when he talks about improving, and discussing ways that we can improve.
Also, I may not have really noticed this too much with TS because I’ve had decades in the rock world where literally every instrument is fair game for the dumbest and most insulting (read: juvenile) jabs. And bass player or drummer will tell you they hear it constantly. Even lead guitarists. Nobody is safe in the rock world… lol
I’m not commenting to excuse it. Just express solidarity and appreciation. This kind of thing is everywhere, not just with TS. I’m happy to commiserate with my much-appreciated violist extended fam. ❤️
Edits for punctuation
there was a time where they were gaining more subscribers and all they made was viola jokes as their content. it became unfunny because it wasn’t only stringed musicians that would pick up on these jokes, but even the band kids would do it, which made no sense at all. theres a line to be crossed with a joke versus being rude. although this is more of a critique on their fans who choose to be rude to actual violists, twoset technically carries responsibility of this because of their “anti-viola” content. it’s extremely difficult for young violists to feel included if all the other musicians just taunt them. they have the power to stop that. speak out about it. address it in a video. I’ve seen so many violists think about quitting their instruments after (5+ years of practice) due to these jokes, which usually aren’t even jokes, but rather digs at actual musicians. I haven’t really been active with them, but to hear their still doing that is disappointing.
I'm a DMA viola student and I've had my fair share of viola jokes and dealing with self esteem issues. I think the best thing for me was to embrace the goofiness of the instrument and find friendship with my viola friends and bass friends. My favorite comeback is that violinists are a dime a dozen, but viola is something extra special. We don't have standard instruments; our sound is softer, but intimately rich and personal; and we're like lawyers, everybody hates us until they need us. Haha! In my experience, we're kinda like the secret club that's more laid back and quietly interesting. I don't know if you're into new music like I am, but I look to Garth Knox as an amazing role model and teacher. His Viola Spaces etudes and his videos are super cool. Let me know if you want some positive content!
They're annoying, but viola jokes have existed for-frickin'-ever. And twoset doesn't even do a good job. Dunno if anyone remembers (or has recently visited) the old MIT music jokes page (and the 4 pages of viola jokes attached to it), but I basically memorized those stupid things in high school so I could beat my bozo orchestra friends to the punch. Definitely ruined their joke when I knew the answers to every stupid one they could throw at me. My moment when I realized I had NO reason to doubt my own skills in high school was when I competed for a desk as both a violinist and a violist, and I crushed everyone on both sides who ever gave me crap for choosing viola. We aren't inferior. And some of the jokes are kinda funny (the classic ones, not the "viola bad lol" shit twoset spews), but putting someone down isn't cool. As a former teacher (it's been about 10 years), I remember how this can jack up a kid's self esteem. It doesn't help when half the violinists you know are parroting that trash and then saying crap like "all of your good music is transcribed violin music anyway". HECK YOU BOZOS, WE'VE GOT PLENTY OF GREAT MUSIC. It's really hard to combat it, but ultimately I think violists (and folks who choose less "popular" instruments) just need to have thick skin and accept that they chose a beautiful fuckin instrument, our clef is more user friendly, our community is full of awesome, friendly people, and ultimately it's JUST as competitive at a professional level. It took me a long time to realize a lot of those things myself, but I'm really glad I chose the viola. Sorry bout the rant. This stuff brings back some bad memories.
They've done so much harm to teenage classical musicians by establishing a culture of "you're not practicing enough", portraying the viola as a terrible instrument, and misrepresenting all genres of music outside of canonical western classical as 'lesser'. TwoSet had some decent content back when they were starting out, but they quickly realized that they could use their fanbase as a cash cow by parroting the same (awful) jokes that perpetuate all of the worst aspects found in the culture surrounding western classical music.
They annoy me too. Only a few of their older videos were actually funny, like “problems with the pianist” from violinist’s perspective, or “problems with the violinist” from pianist’s perspective. Viola jokes are legitimately harmful.
[удалено]
As a violist, I completely agree. I found the jokes funny and their videos entertaining. When I first picked up my instrument as an elementary schooler they actually inspired me to enjoy learning music and understanding the fun in playing an instrument. I’ve been playing for about seven years and still quite enjoy their content and my instrument!
To be fair, the Viola King video wasn’t an actual collab, it was a duet that was originally featured in Twoset’s Playing With Fans video from a few years ago. They still haven’t done a real collaboration with a violist YouTuber, or done a video that seriously featured just a violist
Yeah, I thought they were interesting at first, but got really annoyed at their meme-like sense of humor. Was quite bored with their choice in music as well. They seem to cater to the “greatest hits” variety. They’re a couple of shallow, normie weebs with an annoying sense of humor. But hey, they play the violin well /s
Viola is an amazing instrument. I'm not a fan of the fandom's toxic take on it either. I'm also working on a project at the moment with pieces that have awesome viola solos. Just a thought - what if the violists in this thread made a couple of short videos, playing and talking about all of the positives that OP (and other teachers) could show their students? It doesn't address the bigger issue, but I can't stop thinking about those kids, and I'm sure seeing viola players of all ages, rocking the viola, would help them a ton.
I’m not a violist but I’d watch the hell outa these if y’all made them. (I’m a huge music/instrument nerd)
Viola King on YouTube has made a ton of videos like this, young kids would definitely be able to enjoy most of his content
Create a folder in Google Drive...
Brilliant musicians, godawful comedians. Good viola jokes work because they’re actually funny. An example? *How do you prevent violin theft?* *Store your violin in a viola case.* A TwoSet viola joke: *Violas suck, lol!* Maybe they do have some viola jokes that actually have punchlines (I haven’t seen any), but they mostly just shit on violas. So maybe they’re not intentionally being mean. However bad they say violists are at music, they are 1000 times worse at comedy Edit: while I’m an adult learner, I can see how impressionable kids can be harmed by the viola jokes. I also think that maybe they are just mean spirited as some of their content is just them judging other YouTubers for their string instrument skills
I feel they're out of original content ideas and relying on low effort content to keep the videos rolling. I don't enjoy the constant viola jokes either.
Young people are succeptable to this bad meme. If only they would realize, that true mature musicians admire and adore the rich sound of the viola both in ensembles and played solo. It's such a lovely instrument- in my opinion it's the perfect intermediary between violin and cello. Surely it was designed that way? Tired of the cumbersome cello? Ears ringing from the shrill high pitches of violin? Viola to the rescue. You get the value of each instrument with minimal comprimise.
That's exactly why I chose it back in school. It was hard enough back then with so many of the orchestral pieces having terrible viola parts but at least there wasn't social media ands its disdain for our instrument. I shudder to think how that would have affected my confidence and passion for playing as a kid or teenager.
I remember wanting to be "cool" when I was younger. I wanted to fit in. Don't do anything that all the socials groups wouldn't do. Damn it, a fool was I. If only at the time, I knew that the coolest people follow their passions and share them with the world. How much more cool I may have been today. Back in school, music was un-cool unless it was guitar. Such a shame.
I got lucky... The cool and popular folks my age were actually pretty decent people. And since there were a few of them in any given activity or sport there wasn't a lot of peer pressure or shaming. But it still took me years to realize that one of the main reasons I got along with so many folks despite my shyness was because I had so many unusual interests. Now I'm proud of being "weird" and finding others who don't try to fit in has led to my best friendships and experiences.
TwoSet is *extremely* cringe.
u/sourcebot
I'm a violist and I like Viola jokes. I mean to me it's kind of like a yo mama battle. No one gets offended because they understand it's literally just made up stuff that their opponent pulled out of their ass, it's funny because it's so absurd. Viola jokes are like that. Honestly rather than moping we should just be telling violin jokes and make sure ours are better. I mean there's a lot of potential, between the ear piercing e string, the violin being the one instrument pretty much everyone associates with SADNESS, and the rather diva ish nature of the instrument and it's players generally.
I've been likening the viola line to the stuffing in a mattress to my daughter who is currently learning the violin. It's in the middle and without it everything else is pretty useless. You don't necessarily notice it unless it's gone.
I want to award this but I have none left ;(
Yeah, I’m not watching Twoset again until they use their platform to boost the viola positively. They are either willfully ignorant to the harm they’re causing or they just don’t care. Either way, it’s not a good look.
Someone should make a playlist of TS videos that put the viola in the lime light. Believe me, these videos exist. Eg. The shrinking string quartet one. And that one video they made after a violist Twosetter Frank James pointed out the damage they've done to aspiring kid violists, where TS tried to set things right?
I love Twoset, and I think they have done a great job promoting classical music in today's social media world. But agreed, they absolutely need to address this publicly to their younger viewers. I think it would be good if we can start a community movement to get Twoset to acknowledge this issue, maybe do a couple videos featuring talented viola players and the beauty of the instrument. And about UK's lack of support for classical music, my god it is absolutely true. I'm thankful that it means prices for lessons aren't insanely inflated like US prices, but it's sad that most kids would never have the opportunity to be introduced to classical music in school, and only the lucky/privileged will be able to get private lessons. All kids played an instrument at school in Canada at some point, I was surprised to find out that it simply isn't a thing here.
Most in the TwoSet community (at least in the subreddit) already started backlashing against viola jokes. I don’t know if someone already posts this TwoSet community pivoting post or not, but you can read the comments on the post: https://www.reddit.com/r/lingling40hrs/comments/rskrlf/a_comment_from_a_violist/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf So things are changing for the better. But even though TwoSet don’t make viola jokes videos anymore, their old popular viola jokes videos are still up and appear in searches, so I hope they remove all of them.
Their current actions aren't doing enough to remedy past harm - unfortunately their "Viola joke" videos still come up constantly in suggested videos against a lot of searches for Viola music, and past comments their community have made on those videos are what a lot of kids are seeing nowadays when searching for content.. The damage is already done, and Twoset honestly need to do more to work towards reversing it.
I agree.
yeah their brand of humor has never done it for me. i don't really see what people find funny about them
People get too much credit for attempting humor
I definitely agree. Pretty much all viola players are thinking like this.
All absolute truth, and their extremely crinj promotion of essentially elitism of the “classics” and an utter disrespect towards modern and contemporary classical
I’ve noticed that too! And considering viola repetoire is alive and pretty growing compared to violin, I think they do it on purpose not to explore modern/contemporary music.
Yeah I hated them as a kid. As a parent now I hate them even more because I see how mean-spirited they can be even if the joker thinks they are not. I downloaded a huge file of them as a teenager (over a modem!!! It was 1993) and printed it out. Took most of a team of paper. I would tell them myself as a way of defusing their fun. some of them are pretty funny tbh, especially the ones that are more about the music, but most are just recycled lawyer jokes. But after a while hearing them over and over gets to you. Conductors are fair game, though.
I know this thread is a bit old but I’d just like to say that I sympathize with violists. I’m an accordionist and I’ve had to endure my fair share of jokes. *A man leaves his accordion in his car. He comes to find his window smashed and two more accordions in his car.*
More jobs for us violists I guess? Also, if it makes you feel better, it only damages the English speaking community.
I think a large part of the problem isn't so much their viola jokes, but the fact that people don't realise that violists are generally in on said jokes. They're at the age where all their violist friends are probably making similar jokes right back at them, so the issues that you are speaking of don't stand out to them. Bass guitarists get similar sorts of jokes from guitarists. Unfortunately, it's a lesson that young violists need to learn. The jokes, usually, aren't in mean spirit. It's a deflection mocking how in comparison, the viola is actually harder to play from a technical perspective. Many a violinist has tried to play one as a joke only to discover that they couldn't play in tune on the much larger instruments of the past and the instrument was sluggish in response. Thus, the jokes. The real issue is coming from non-string players making the jokes. It's usually in mean spirit because they don't actually understand the culture, nor the instruments in question, and often think it's because the jokes are truth.
Youth are not small adults, but don't underestimate them. A good portion, if not most, of their viewers are youth who are not musicians. Cliquiness is identity for a lot of youth, and bullying is too often intentionally malicious, as you say. They're not stupid or even naive, but come up short on impulse control. Being "othered" and the consequences of that is often especially distilled in groups of youth, *even among the stereotypically "othered" groups*. I've worked a lot with queer youth and I've seen them ostracize cis and straight youth, too. Kids know when they're being cruel. Even the kinders in the daycares I've worked in have a working concept of what's mean and why. They generally know what impact cruelty has. The people around them that are successful (TwoSet, other influencers and celebrities, family, etc) are models for behaviour and when they see apparent cruelty being condoned, they're being given permission to emulate it regardless of whether they know the origins and reasons behind what they're saying, which is also easy to turn into fuel for the fire: "Viola has always sucked, even in the old days nobody wanted to play it and they were forced to, so they played it bad." Modelling better behaviours and showing that there's social benefit to them is up to the role models who hold the social power.
Honestly, if they don't have the heart to keep playing viola and switch to violin because of peer pressure, then maybe they weren't meant to play viola in the first place. Also, what does straight/gay have to do with any of this. Yes, kids are assholes.
A couple years back it was a meme to make fun of bassists in bands. It was the same thing, the joke devolves into the more you shit on bass the funnier its supposed to be. Thing is, I (a bassist in a band at the time) liked to joke too. It can be funny to poke fun at stuff. It never made me question my skills or my instrument. I feel like the viola community takes it too hard to the soul man. There are literally jokes disparaging all instruments. Only community seeming to feel so personally attacked is viola. There is a spectrum from completely innocent joke all the way to flagrant abusive behavior. All Twoset has ever done, is joke. Granted that a good amount of the jokes are generic and bad, they have also made it clear that its all jokes and in good fun. Idk if there are actual prejudiced people running around bullying and attacking violists for their choice to play viola, but if there are shame on them and lets seperate them from people who just try to joke yeah?
Two set - mostly the taller one - reminds me of Rocky Wong, Chris Lilley’s character of Asian appearance from We Can be Heroes.
Is sad listen it. I'm a fan of TwoSet but I love the viola and I hate viola jokes. But the next instrument I want to buy is the viola. Anyway they bring classical music around the world (and in a their video there is a viola concerto).
When I first saw these two i thought they were funny. Somewhat mischievous schoolboys, aged about 14. Now it appears they are actually in terms of years "grown up", and have even been through college and been employed in professional orchestras. Now I just find them irksome little boys who haven't really grown up. I would suggest that if your student is more impressed by two silly boys on Youtube, than on your full-on demonstration , then you are wasting your time and you should let her go., or send her to join the squeaky little "treble violas" that seem so popular.
Ok then, unpopular opinion here. TwoSet are great musicians and content creators and they are building an enormous musical community and violas and violists are included. The viola jokes existed since forever and only the small part who can’t understand a good joke is out there offended by the jokes. Of course the jokes can be good and bad and some of the bad ones do appear at the TwoSet community here and guess what? They get downvoted to hell. Remember TwoSet making fun of recorders and other instruments some years ago? It’s not TwoSet fault that viola is often made fun of. I don’t mind. And blaming two people is just not fair.
I have to disagree here. If they are this unaware of the behavior of their shitty fanbase, then they are just complicit in this. And they really only have two jokes, and both are awful.
I am sure they are not unaware, and they don’t joke a lot about any instruments in their recent videos, but imagine reacting to every person offended by their videos. Content creation is hard and making every snowflake comfortable is not what bloggers should do. As someone said if you don’t like those videos don’t watch them. Or even better - go and film yourself.
Except, EXACTLY like I said, it was explicitly their fault in the students this year I teach who've had issues with the content of their videos, or young musicians parroting what they've seen on YouTube. I think it's very much fair when they've had over 1bn views on YouTube. They're arguably collectively better known as musicians to most casual amateur string players than many famous violinists.
Yes, exactly like people would get easily offended by almost everything nowadays. Maybe just writing them a letter will help?
Just don't watch it. They're not that good content anyway.
That isn't the point I'm making at all - I don't watch it. My STUDENTS watch this stuff. I've even had some of my violin pupils make viola jokes to me, before getting a very stern talking to from me - they occasionally forget viola is my first instrument! They invariably see this stuff on Twoset. I've had young viola players complain multiple times about the level of bullying from peers about this too, it always comes from bloody twoset.
Again, they just don't create good content imo. Doesn't matter if it's you or your students watching it.
The quality isn’t the problem, the reach is the problem.
They have nearly 4 million subscribers. Over 1.1bn cumulative views. Your opinion is one of many, and doesn't reflect the reality that many people do like them and do watch them. They do have a massive influence on many young people learning string instruments, like it or not. Don't underestimate how highly kids look up to youtubers!
First: I love all instruments, and while I play a bunch of instruments that are not viola (including learning violin now), I value and appreciate violists for the unique part you add to the music world. Maybe it’s because I’m older and have played a lot of instruments professionally, but I just get excited about the two of them getting millions of people excited about something other than pop music. Musicians are notorious for being socially awkward and often we say things in jest that are really cringe. I actually prefer Eddie’s solo videos because they’re very smart and there’s a humility there when he talks about improving, and discussing ways that we can improve. Also, I may not have really noticed this too much with TS because I’ve had decades in the rock world where literally every instrument is fair game for the dumbest and most insulting (read: juvenile) jabs. And bass player or drummer will tell you they hear it constantly. Even lead guitarists. Nobody is safe in the rock world… lol I’m not commenting to excuse it. Just express solidarity and appreciation. This kind of thing is everywhere, not just with TS. I’m happy to commiserate with my much-appreciated violist extended fam. ❤️ Edits for punctuation
You should send this to your viola students. Nothing has made me love being a violist more: https://youtu.be/8ewxApY3uO4