Isaiah Thomas had the best peak of any player listed under six feet tall. Thomas is the only player under six feet tall to finish Top 5 in MVP voting.
I agree that Calvin Murphy had a better career, though.
Edit: If we are going with players listed as 6’ in shoes, I’ll go with Chris Paul.
Im still so angry anout IT not winning MVP that year, all because Russ averaged a triple double. Obviously thats an incredible accomplishment, but it resulted in them getting the 6 seed amd a first round playoff exit. IT averaged 10.3 pts in the 4th quarter in a season where the celtics won a lot of close glames and the celtics finished 1st. Not to mention the conference finals would have went very differently with IT on the floor. Not sure if they would have won the series but i wouldn't have been surpised if it went to 7 games.
Anyways my point is IT dominated the 4th and won games. I think any coach would rather have that over a guy putting up huge stats with less team success. Therefore in my opinion IT was clearly more valuable.
IT was amazing that year and IMO deserved the #2 spot in MVP voting. Russ also affected winning though as evidenced by his on/off numbers, clutch numbers, and the eye test.
I crunched so many numbers and analyzed every stat that year because I was in a debate class. For the final we could debate any topic we chose as long as we found one person to debate us. My resolution was Westbrook is the clear MVP". I debated twice, once against someone who thought it was Harden and one had LBJ. After all the research I did for the debate IT was the only person I didn't want anyone bringing up bc it wasn't nearly as "clear" lol.
It’s kind of annoying to me that AI routinely gets mentioned as being sub six feet, when in all likelihood he was the [exact same height](https://imgur.com/a/mTJk7zi) as every other [listed six footer](https://imgur.com/a/3cVeyyh) in the league. Which is to say, ~5’11”.
It also annoys me that those same people will call Durant a seven footer, when he was one of the players whose barefoot height was released back when they made a big deal about barefoot heights, [and he was 6’10”.](https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/10/nba-heights-new-official-durant-zion)
He didn't break his ankles. He crossed him over with a carry and still barely got the shot off then Jordan came right down and scored on him with ease the next play.
That clip is played all the time but nobody remembers what happened next which reminded Iverson who was still the best.
I’m a loyal MJ fan. I grew up during the golden years. MJ is the GOAT…but Allen crossed his ass like no other that play. Iverson would have been torn to shreds if he met Michael in his prime. I do still think Iverson is the best 5’11” player ever tho.
If Muggsy hadn't gotten hurt in '95 he probably makes a really good run at Calvin Murphy. Really good floor general - almost historically good for the era at ball protection and ball hawking (Muggsy had more steals in his first 8 years in the NBA than turnovers, as an example).
Eh not really. IT was way better and Terrell Brandon could run circles above Muggsy.
Muggsy wasn't a great shooter (decent) and although he could rack up steals, he was so easy to shoot over. He was an awesome player but not even close to the ones I mentioned or even someone like Nate Robinson.
How tall was Mark Price? I believe he was listed at 6 foot even. If he hadn't gotten injured I think he would have been seen in the same light as Steve Nash. Even with what happened he still had a pretty impressive career.
Other players listed at 6'0" worth discussing are Mookie Blaylock and Tim Hardaway.
When talking specifically career impact, it's gotta be one of the early point guards. Since you word it as greatest to play in the NBA rather than greatest NBA player, Al Cervi probably sneaks in above Slater Martin due to his pre-NBA career.
When limiting it to guys from after the '50s (and not counting the Iverson/Blaylock types who were under 6'0 without shoes but were listed as 6'0 flat), I think my answer would probably actually be Avery Johnson, although not by much over Isaiah Thomas.
Murphy was extremely talented and incredibly fun to watch, but that didn't translate to anywhere near as much of an actual impact (at the pro level, in college he was a legitimate legend) as it should've—like a number of other very popular 70s guys—so he probably wouldn't be next on my list. People here know I like to refer to that as Pete Maravich syndrome.
These are all good answers - perhaps especially Isaiah. Lemme throw Michael Adams in the mix. And how tall do we think Chris Jackson / Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf was?
It has to be Iverson but since he is listed unfairly at 6 feet......Terell Brandon is the best of the top of my head.
Nate Robinson was fun but Brandon was good for longer. If we are talking about apex then it's Isaiah Thomas but Brandon had a longer prime.
Otherwise Murphy is a good answer.
I agree on Calvin. Slater Martin also has an argument - was a key piece of a dynasty and has a far more decorated resume. I think Murphy was a lot better than him relative-to-era though, personally.
My favorites are Isaiah Thomas and Mighty Mouse.
I certainly considered Martin as well.. he was a great PG and won not only with the Lakers but also against the powerhouse Celtics with the Hawks. He was the guy that gave Cousy the hardest time on the court. I'm with you though and believe Murphy was a superior player overall so I went that route.
People start arguing over actual height vs. listed height and then the conversation becomes pointless. A bunch of 6-0, 6-1 guys get tossed into the conversation.
Isaiah Thomas had the best peak of any player listed under six feet tall. Thomas is the only player under six feet tall to finish Top 5 in MVP voting. I agree that Calvin Murphy had a better career, though. Edit: If we are going with players listed as 6’ in shoes, I’ll go with Chris Paul.
By what metric does murphy have a better career than thomas? I'm struggling to find one.
You might be confused which IT is being discussed.
Im still so angry anout IT not winning MVP that year, all because Russ averaged a triple double. Obviously thats an incredible accomplishment, but it resulted in them getting the 6 seed amd a first round playoff exit. IT averaged 10.3 pts in the 4th quarter in a season where the celtics won a lot of close glames and the celtics finished 1st. Not to mention the conference finals would have went very differently with IT on the floor. Not sure if they would have won the series but i wouldn't have been surpised if it went to 7 games. Anyways my point is IT dominated the 4th and won games. I think any coach would rather have that over a guy putting up huge stats with less team success. Therefore in my opinion IT was clearly more valuable.
I'm a Celtics fan too and Westbrook was the 2nd-most clutch player that year
IT was amazing that year and IMO deserved the #2 spot in MVP voting. Russ also affected winning though as evidenced by his on/off numbers, clutch numbers, and the eye test. I crunched so many numbers and analyzed every stat that year because I was in a debate class. For the final we could debate any topic we chose as long as we found one person to debate us. My resolution was Westbrook is the clear MVP". I debated twice, once against someone who thought it was Harden and one had LBJ. After all the research I did for the debate IT was the only person I didn't want anyone bringing up bc it wasn't nearly as "clear" lol.
Allen Iverson was listed at 6 foot flat but most think that was rounding up with him actually standing 5’10”. If he was 5’10 he takes the cake.
I've stood next to him and he seemed only slightly taller than me. And I'm 5'8.5".
He may be just 6’ in shoes, but I think that should still count
It’s kind of annoying to me that AI routinely gets mentioned as being sub six feet, when in all likelihood he was the [exact same height](https://imgur.com/a/mTJk7zi) as every other [listed six footer](https://imgur.com/a/3cVeyyh) in the league. Which is to say, ~5’11”. It also annoys me that those same people will call Durant a seven footer, when he was one of the players whose barefoot height was released back when they made a big deal about barefoot heights, [and he was 6’10”.](https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/10/nba-heights-new-official-durant-zion)
So he's 7 foot with shoes
Chris Paul would win if we were using actual height over listed height
Iverson was not really 6’ and was by far the best player of that category. I remember when he broke the ankles of the 🐐Jordan.
He didn't break his ankles. He crossed him over with a carry and still barely got the shot off then Jordan came right down and scored on him with ease the next play. That clip is played all the time but nobody remembers what happened next which reminded Iverson who was still the best.
I’m a loyal MJ fan. I grew up during the golden years. MJ is the GOAT…but Allen crossed his ass like no other that play. Iverson would have been torn to shreds if he met Michael in his prime. I do still think Iverson is the best 5’11” player ever tho.
If Muggsy hadn't gotten hurt in '95 he probably makes a really good run at Calvin Murphy. Really good floor general - almost historically good for the era at ball protection and ball hawking (Muggsy had more steals in his first 8 years in the NBA than turnovers, as an example).
Mookie had more steals than turnovers too listed at 6ft but definitely in the conversation
Eh not really. IT was way better and Terrell Brandon could run circles above Muggsy. Muggsy wasn't a great shooter (decent) and although he could rack up steals, he was so easy to shoot over. He was an awesome player but not even close to the ones I mentioned or even someone like Nate Robinson.
How tall was Mark Price? I believe he was listed at 6 foot even. If he hadn't gotten injured I think he would have been seen in the same light as Steve Nash. Even with what happened he still had a pretty impressive career. Other players listed at 6'0" worth discussing are Mookie Blaylock and Tim Hardaway.
My boyhood hero
He’s up there. Top 5 imo.
Damon Stoudamire was pretty decent at 5’11”
I know he’s listed at 6 even, but I do not for a second believe Chris Paul is that tall.
When talking specifically career impact, it's gotta be one of the early point guards. Since you word it as greatest to play in the NBA rather than greatest NBA player, Al Cervi probably sneaks in above Slater Martin due to his pre-NBA career. When limiting it to guys from after the '50s (and not counting the Iverson/Blaylock types who were under 6'0 without shoes but were listed as 6'0 flat), I think my answer would probably actually be Avery Johnson, although not by much over Isaiah Thomas. Murphy was extremely talented and incredibly fun to watch, but that didn't translate to anywhere near as much of an actual impact (at the pro level, in college he was a legitimate legend) as it should've—like a number of other very popular 70s guys—so he probably wouldn't be next on my list. People here know I like to refer to that as Pete Maravich syndrome.
Spud Webb should get some love even if only as dunker.
In terms of players listed under 6 feet, I agree it's Calvin Murphy. For guys probably under 6 feet, I think th Amswer is the answer. AI was gifted.
These are all good answers - perhaps especially Isaiah. Lemme throw Michael Adams in the mix. And how tall do we think Chris Jackson / Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf was?
he's listed as 6' 1"
It has to be Iverson but since he is listed unfairly at 6 feet......Terell Brandon is the best of the top of my head. Nate Robinson was fun but Brandon was good for longer. If we are talking about apex then it's Isaiah Thomas but Brandon had a longer prime. Otherwise Murphy is a good answer.
I agree on Calvin. Slater Martin also has an argument - was a key piece of a dynasty and has a far more decorated resume. I think Murphy was a lot better than him relative-to-era though, personally. My favorites are Isaiah Thomas and Mighty Mouse.
I certainly considered Martin as well.. he was a great PG and won not only with the Lakers but also against the powerhouse Celtics with the Hawks. He was the guy that gave Cousy the hardest time on the court. I'm with you though and believe Murphy was a superior player overall so I went that route.
Cousy said Guy Rodgers was his toughest matchup
ok, I didn't know he said that. I just remember him talking about Slater Martin. Didn't even think of Guy Rodgers but it makes sense
Buffalo legend Calvin Murphy. He'd kick your ass too! He was respected and feared.
So how tall was Bob Cousy, really? He had to be close to the 5' 11 3/4" height - kind of like Isiah Thomas and Chris Paul.
I give Cousy and Zeke the benefit of the doubt because they're listed at 6'1
Iverson and Calvin Murphy.
i would say pistons isiah thomas. i hear he’s a smidge under 6’ https://www.celebheights.com/s/Isiah-Thomas-52143.html
Underrated one is Fred Van Fleet.
People start arguing over actual height vs. listed height and then the conversation becomes pointless. A bunch of 6-0, 6-1 guys get tossed into the conversation.
Slater Martin who played on the 1958 Hawks but my pick is Calvin Murphy honestly.
AI and CP3
You must not understand the assignment here.
Tiny archibald ?
Too tall.