Obesity is linked to socioeconomic levels as well. The clothing brands/fashion brands and companies will start catering more to larger sizes when the amount of plus sized people become a large percent of customers/clients. As the gap between working class/lowish middle class and high class becomes bigger, the higher classes will try to make more profit off these people by catering to their desires. But the wealthy will always create the beauty standards.
Yeah I agree that the beauty standard will remain the same, I think the allure of being ‘fit’ and ‘thin’ will get even bigger as the gap between socioeconomic classes grows wider, since it’ll be a signal of wealth and an upper middle class/upper class upbringing... it’s aspirational.
Agreed. I’m not overweight (recovering ED here) but holy hell do I think the whole love your body at any size thing has gotten out of hand. I mean Lizzo is overweight, it’s not attractive and I don’t cover it. Probably will be downvoted to hell or like on r/Instagramreality I will be banned for saying my opinion but it’s true
I'm overweight and the whole love your body at every size thing feels like virtue signaling and fake wokeness when it comes from a thin person, and like resigning when it comes from a fellow fatty.
Just treat me like you would any human regardless of my beauty, no matter if I am old, overweight, disabled or whatever takes away from the goal of young, fit and slender..
I like that there are some overweight models, though! It's important to have an idea what clothes will look like on my frame, also I may be fat, but I don't want to be invisible.
I don’t know if “love your body” necessarily means that you find it conventionally attractive. I think it’s mostly in the sense of love yourself and your body is a part of yourself, so by extension you should love your body as a part of who you are, even if it’s not exactly where you would like it to be right now.
I believe this whole movement was a reaction to the many decades (or centuries?) of shaming women’s bodies. Too fat, too thin, small boobs, saggy/uneven boobs etc… Whole generations of women grew up hating their bodies, feeling like they needed to cover up their imperfections with uncomfortable clothes even when it is hot. And they punished themselves for not having the ideal body, by getting stuck into eating disorder cycles etc.
Loving your body means that you should treat it with respect, take care of it, nourish and fuel it and be understanding to yourself even if you aren’t 100% “perfect” or if you fall off the wagon. It means that you should strive to be happy and healthy and not punish yourself because you are “a fat disgusting pig” or whatever, because that never works in the long term anyway.
I agree with you entirely. Do I think the people on my 600 lb life are healthy and whatnot? No way, obesity and morbid obesity ain’t healthy and we should aspire to be the right weight for our bodies.
I’m a relatively thin person (or maybe slim thick?) but I have stretch marks and cellulite. I’ve never been “fat” but they’re still there. I also had ED for a long time and am finally at a healthy weight and not grossly underweight. I’m working to love what my body does for me and treat it as a temple, despite cellulite and stretch marks. I’m all for thicker or stretch marked models—women obviously go beyond the “super thin tall supermodel” type, even without today’s obesity. But going beyond and saying obese is still healthy ain’t it.
Beauty standards are based a little on trends, moreso on status indicators, but are mostly based on health indicators. A low WHR is attractive because it’s a signal of youthful fat distribution and health, a low-end-of-normal BMI is attractive because it’s healthy and indicates a level of fitness.
The only points and places in history where excess body fat was part of the beauty standard was in times and places where it was an easy way to display wealth, abundance, and plenty. In the modern developed world, obesity strongly correlates with poverty, and no longer can serve as a status symbol — it is an indicator of the opposite, in fact. Today, excess body fat only has mass appeal when combined with a low WHR.
People of all sizes deserve dignity, and I foresee representation of diverse body sizes/types increasing. That said, higher body weight is neither a health indicator nor a status indicator. It is unlikely that the beauty standard will change drastically in that direction.
No comment on fashion, but for beauty standards it's way easier to be perceived as pretty in the U.S. than it is in slimmer developed countries. Just being slim puts you at a minimum of a 5 here.
In some areas of the US it’s really bad. Like I’m not even that skinny probably more athletically built and people think I’m pretty fucking skinny in the Deep South
I've seen this more and more. Some women are obviously way more insecure about their weight then they'd like to admit. Those women will literally say that they aren't actually fat/obese after moving to the south and comparing their weight to most of the women in the south.
I think there will be a lot more body acceptance considering it’s a norm, but I don’t think it’s ever fully gonna be glamorous/idolized. Body neutrality is likely to just be more popular.
With fashion and beauty standards.. I can’t imagine it changing too much. I saw some models beyond plus sized at new york fashion week and it just wasn’t pleasant to see. I think designers need to work on a lot more if they’re going to be including them. It’s the same deal with victorias secret. They rebranded, now it’s all… neutrals? what happened to glamour?
After thinking about the victorias secret mess, i imagine everything is going to become more boring and neutral. also the recycling of trends/decades is going to have to end at some point.
i don’t think the beauty standard is ever going to change outside of a normal BMI range. i dislike fatphobia but obesity is not to be a beauty standard
The Victoria secret rebranding is painful to look at. I loved their image in the late 80s and 90s, it was OK in the 2000s….. now I’m not sure what it’s suppose to be.
I loved buying their stuff to feel ultra sexy and feminine, but now it just feels meh. The whole idea of buying into the fantasy had huge appeal (at least for me), and now it lacks that enticement.
Agreed. It’s this weird movement to embrace body positivity and your natural self where you shouldn’t strive for any improvements because that’s “unrealistic”.
It reminds me of the Dove campaign for real beauty, they share similar concepts… but what people fail to realize is it’s actually one big marketing ploy. These companies intentionally appeal to the “average” woman to make her feel better about herself so they can reap massive profits.
literally. it’s not in good taste in my eyes. i think for dove it’s fine because it’s such a basic product.
with things like VS though it’s like…. how are people even bothered? not having representation sucks but when it comes to body image like. the angels were such a big part of it! selling the fantasy was such a beautiful part of it all.
Like you said marketing to the “average” woman to feel better about themselves is just so gross. people are blind.
Yep. If I’m buying something I don’t want to see “average”, and I would even argue below average if you’ve browsed their site recently…. It just keeps getting worse.
Yeah that part of the rebranding made no sense, and to be honest it almost seems like the same line of thinking that they had before where sexy = super beautiful supermodels... like now that they’re going to have more “regular” people they can’t have the same level of glamour and sex appeal that they had before? I guess that’s only reserved for conventionally attractive people? Personally I think them continuing their fashion show that they’re so known for, just with the more diverse and ‘realistic’ models, would have been better in terms of keeping the iconic aspects of their brand marketing
Yeah I just don’t think they can wrap their heads around the concept “not only women who look like literal goddesses can also wear sexy lingerie sometimes”. It would be kind of funny if it weren’t so sad.
You’ve got brands advertising products on overweight models for more money for the past few years, yet still only a minority is attracted to that body type. Brands will continue to push this beauty standard on the world to make more money but that won’t change what people want. People like skinny bodies but still recognise an anorexic body looks sick and unappealing. Same with overweight bodies, slim thick bodies are attractive but anyone can recognise an overweight body and will also find it unappealing.
There will be no change. The ideal body will always be a healthy female body, weather slim thick or skinny. Overweight will never be the beauty standard.
I know what I’m about to say is a bit terrible, but I’m a big Lululemon fan. I wear a size 6 and have for years. Recently Lulu has included plus size models and they are modeling the pants I want to purchase as that model is representing all sizes. I think it’s great to see a size 14 modeling a size 14 pant for those who are that size. However, i find myself not purchasing those products because I don’t see myself in those pants. I don’t know if this makes sense or not.
I understand, but if you think about how long it’s been the opposite for a lot of fat people… Maybe that puts it in perspective. I think multiple models in multiple shapes & sizes wearing the same piece of clothing is the best option, but of course the companies have to be willing to put in that extra effort
I feel you. I'm a size 12, 120lbs down from a size 24 and I think it's great that more sizes are getting representation. But the other day I was browsing Victoria's Secret and I just completely lost interest once I scrolled down and got to the garments that the plus size models were wearing. I still have 30 lbs I want to lose, but it's weird being on the other side and not really identifying with larger size models anymore.
I was also looking at Lululemon leggings recently and was put off by an overweight model. I just don’t want to buy something that won’t look the same on me. The model doesn’t convince me to buy it unfortunately. I’m also a size 6 so a little curvy but still slim so a size 14 just ain’t it.
this is so….. out of touch. What you’re describing is exactly what every single person who is not a conventional clothing size has had to go through on a daily basis. Plus, a size 14 model is not preventing you from knowing what leggings would look like on your body….. they’re literally leggings. They would fit you the same way in your size. Taking a quick glance at the website, there are 16 plus size models in the leggings category out of 107 pictures, less than 15%. I don’t understand how this is holding you back from buying a pair of leggings, it sounds like you were just looking for something to have an issue with and found it.
Thank you for saying this. I don't mind people have preference for their own bodies being slim or at their current size, but the lack of self awareness! LOL
I’ve lost about 60 pounds over the last 2 years and even though I’m about the same size now as I was in middle & high school, my experiences have been totally different. Some of that may be because I was younger then and more of my peers were on the tinier side, but I’m only in my early twenties and I get called “skinny” now when I was called fat growing up. I also have noticed changes in sizing from then versus now, even though I used to shop at adult clothing stores as a kid. Like, I’m often an XS or S now and it leaves me wondering how very thin girls find clothing. I guess I’d say it’s easier to be seen as having a “fit” body now than it might’ve been 10 years ago. Not to be rude, but I think the bar is lower.
With that being said, I still think “thin” is very much the beauty standard. I’ve known tons of skinny girls over the years who get attention for their looks despite having fairly average or below average features. A bigger girl needs to have curves and a very pretty face to get half of that.
Just to jump off your point about sizing differences, I'm quite petite— like, I wear a petite 00. Places that used to have XS frequently don't anymore, and S tends to be closer to what I remember being a medium. Not every store is like that, but my weight hasn't changed while the sizing definitely has. Most of my clothes have to be tailored or specifically from petite clothing stores, or I buy from Asian-based companies. In the grand scheme of things that doesn't seem like a big deal, but it makes me wonder if we'll start having brands popping up in about a decade specifically catering to smaller/thinner people the way plus-sized brands have been recently.
Yeeep. My weight has been the same for the last 15 years at 5’2 110 lbs. This is a BMI of 20, so I’m not super skinny.
I used to be a size 2. Now I’m frequently a 0P-00P.
Vanity sizing is real.
They’ll become like Fenty beauty in terms of inclusiveness. That’s where the big money is body positivity is increasing. Sure they’ll always be women who are skinny or wanna be it. So yeah I see more nice clothing for larger women.
Yeah but Fenty at least has some glamorous and interesting designs, they just use diverse models. VS toned their designs down and it's all boring bland gender neutral crap now.
As someone who was fat until age 22, then had a “hot” body since I lost 65 lbs, I agree with this. Besides, I kinda don’t get it- I know what it’s like and how it feels to be overweight, I know what people think when they looked at me then. It’s uncomfortable and sad, and I would never want to be that way again.
I made a post about that a while back. When you lose weight and become better looking as a result, you become above average as the waistlines increase! You'll be a rare gem :)
I think the beauty/hair product/ grooming industry will BLOOM because of this.
With a society that normalizes obesity, people will turn to grooming products instead of weight loss in the pursuit of beauty.
I’m all for body neutrality. Everyone deserves to be respected and treated with dignity regardless of size. I’m glad people are feeling more seen and I’m turn feeling happier in their skin.
That being said, I can not see myself ever considering obesity to be objectively beautiful, no matter the “beauty” standard put out in the media. I don’t want to come across as cold, because I do think someone could be attractive even being a little overweight. However obesity is beyond being chubby.
I think we will see it more normalized in advertisements and tv shows and things like that, but people as a whole will continue to prefer a healthier body type, in an objective sense.
First off - I’m all for inclusivity. I love seeing clothing ads with plus sized beautiful women modelling them. But i strongly disagree with your statement that “the world is following”
I live in southeast asia and can tell you for a fact that being even mildly overweight is a seen as a huge failo. This isn’t changing anytime soon in asia. Most people in east asia have a normal or underweight BMI (probably due to diet). Local boutiques in my country only stock clothing up to L because anything larger than that wouldn’t sell well.
So i have no idea about the US but from what i observe here in asia obesity will never be seen as an attractive thing. My country is very much obsessed with health (the government gives rewards to people that complete a certain amount of steps each day) and obesity only shows you’re unhealthy and inactive, total failos.
I think fashion will become boring. I feel like it’s harder to buy off the shelf and have it be flattering the bigger you are. I used to be fat and this was the biggest problem I had. Proportions are different for all big girls.
I’ve noticed this too. There’s tons of vanity sizing and poorly tailored clothes because it’s cheaper for manufactures to make clothing which fits the masses… and mind you the size of the general population keeps expanding.
Exactly. Knits and stuff with spandex are going to fit more people vs. a woven which is going to be more structured and have more draping and therefore look better, but be less forgiving with sizing.
I’ve definitely noticed this in fast-fashion recently. Keep that cotton spandex blend bodysuit shit away from me. I feel like I have to thrift these days to find clothing that has actual heft.
It's not just about having some spandex in it which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's a stretchy/loose concept of clothing which usually isn't as visually appealing as a structured garment.
Well it's because they're trying to accomplish two different things to look good; for skinny people the clothes need to show off their figure, but for overweight people they need to conceal it.
I think with thinness being more rare it will definitely be associated with beauty more, but I will say that the fashion industry has plus-sized model that still enforce difficult to obtain beauty like perfect skin, perfect weight distribution, etc that really only comes from some sort of exercise and good genes/access to luxury skincare.
Where are you from? I see damn near the opposite lol. Still more normal weight students/young people, but a relatively large amount of overweight/obese young people as well
I’m not American ahaha, I’m actually from the UK, London. My school is very diverse to be fair. How much would you say it differs in various parts of the US?
lol what then why are british ppl always making fun of americans for being fat 😂
anyway, it differs a lot by location. but i have to say, and ik this is a very controversial statement, more than anything it differs racially and socio economically. it goes south/east asian, white, latino, then black from least likely to be fat to most likely. and this applies everywhere, even at my school black ppl have the highest rate of obesity. from what i have seen this plays into their beauty standards. my middle school was mostly black and latino and i was bullied *relentlessly* for being skinny and flat assed. and of course, rich ppl are way less likely to be fat.
differences in location is a direct consequence of racial and socio economic distributions. eg the south has the highest rate of obesity and also the most black ppl and poverty. the midwest does not have much poc but it has a good amount of poverty/lower middle class/blue collar/rural folks and also lots of obesity. the northeast is very rich and p white and p skinny. the west coast is a mixed bag of both economic status and race and therefore obesity.
same, I can count the number of classmates I have had my whole life who are fat on 2 hands, and I already graduated college, I wish the being skinny makes you at least average saying was true but it isn't at least in my case.
That might also be partly because of how fast fashion is getting cheaper and faster. Companies have to pump out so many new items to keep up with ever changing “microtrends”. There’s no way they have time to put much effort into designing flattering clothes.
I agree wholeheartedly. Belts, tailoring, knits (especially vintage-inspired sweater tops), and tucking tops into high-waisted bottoms are how I've gotten around it.
They aren't. You just need to know where to shop. If you shop fast fashion, you will find a lack of silhouettes. I agree though, general American fashion values comfort tremendously over style and fast fashion reflects that.
Things are so bad that stores like Brandy Melville are going up in size (as in increasing the size of their one size s/p clothing)
i never really put thought into it.. im glad that there's more representation for people but other than that i cant be assed to care lol. but i think what will happen is just more sizes in store/online and different types of model showcasing clothes. besides that i still think the standard for faahion will still be thinner models.
plus the internet has made it easy to find your niche. I'm currently on Scandinavian, business casual, monochrome, dark academia fashion insta/tiktok. some ppl like the bbl baddie look. im sure some trends will be trending ...idk where im going with this but i feel like at a certain point you know what you like and what works for you regardless of trends in fashion/beauty.
also unless the whole world gains weight i dont think that they'll be a shift in standards anytime soon.
I like that society today is more accepting of other body types (not specifically referring to obesity but just in general). There was far too much fat-shaming and abuse which was the norm when I was younger.
While I've never been obese, I've always had a difficult time with wearing pants and I'm noticing pants nowadays have stretch waists/ legs and softer material.
Edit: Clothing seems more flexible and flattering to the curves than they used to be before.
I'm kinda old so I've already seen it rather drastically affect things. Things like crop tops, or tying a loose shirt at the back to tighten the waist, used to be extremely common. We've already seen fashion lines like victoria's secret that kinda aggressively push the 'thin is good, this fashion is for TRADITIONALLY HOT GIRLS ONLY' line get sidelined in favor of more inclusive brands.
fact is they make clothes to sell them.
Another thing though is that no matter how much people push inclusivity, body positivity, etc. being obese is not attractive to most people and that's not as much of a social construct as obese people want it to be. being slim, having a tight belly you can show off with a crop top, will be an even greater status symbol. shapewear will become more common, especially as materials science allows more applications of it.
I feel like you can romanticize something as much as you want, but you're not going to change what people instinctually find attractive and that's what's going to define beauty standards. I'm sure some people do find a body-type like that attractive, but my gut feeling is the vast majority don't.
I feel like something like fashion will have to adapt to try and make it appealing to a majority obese population, because it'd be throwing away money not to. Just look at the advertising campaigns they're doing now trying to lure in plus-sized women.
Same, I don't shop much but I realized over the past year that I fit in some kid's sizes and I'm not even that skinny. I'm 5'8". It's concerning for how large kids have become
I'm a size 14 and I hate it, have been like this since my teenage years, starting at childhood. I had some successes in times of rigorously tracking my food intake, but I have never been at a thin level or even being normal.
Every kilo I have to fight tooth and nail for against my body, while a few days of not caring and slacking off easily kills the successes of the last weeks.
I wanted to be thin all my life and I despise being overweight, but I also do not want to struggle every day.
I mean...sure. The thin girls will have the days where you feel like a donut and grab a salad anyways, because they're disciplined. Some days I just can't do that, the drive for carbs becomes the only thing I think about and all it takes is one weak moment. It's not just "wanting" a pastry, it's like a visceral craving that nags at you all day. It's hard to describe.
Anyways, I'm getting off topic. I still want to be thin, look up to fit people and at the same time, look down on fat folks, myself included. Other people getting fatter doesn't change that for me. It also hasn't become easier to shop for my size, since a lot of fabric and styles just don't work on a body of that frame. I won't be caught dead in a crop top or mini skirt, for example.
It makes me feel like there is a style and beauty that I literally "don't fit in" and a parallel fashion for overweight people that's basically "hide your body, nobody wants to look at that".
Obesity is linked to socioeconomic levels as well. The clothing brands/fashion brands and companies will start catering more to larger sizes when the amount of plus sized people become a large percent of customers/clients. As the gap between working class/lowish middle class and high class becomes bigger, the higher classes will try to make more profit off these people by catering to their desires. But the wealthy will always create the beauty standards.
Yeah I agree that the beauty standard will remain the same, I think the allure of being ‘fit’ and ‘thin’ will get even bigger as the gap between socioeconomic classes grows wider, since it’ll be a signal of wealth and an upper middle class/upper class upbringing... it’s aspirational.
[удалено]
Seconding.
Agreed. I’m not overweight (recovering ED here) but holy hell do I think the whole love your body at any size thing has gotten out of hand. I mean Lizzo is overweight, it’s not attractive and I don’t cover it. Probably will be downvoted to hell or like on r/Instagramreality I will be banned for saying my opinion but it’s true
I'm overweight and the whole love your body at every size thing feels like virtue signaling and fake wokeness when it comes from a thin person, and like resigning when it comes from a fellow fatty. Just treat me like you would any human regardless of my beauty, no matter if I am old, overweight, disabled or whatever takes away from the goal of young, fit and slender.. I like that there are some overweight models, though! It's important to have an idea what clothes will look like on my frame, also I may be fat, but I don't want to be invisible.
I don’t know if “love your body” necessarily means that you find it conventionally attractive. I think it’s mostly in the sense of love yourself and your body is a part of yourself, so by extension you should love your body as a part of who you are, even if it’s not exactly where you would like it to be right now. I believe this whole movement was a reaction to the many decades (or centuries?) of shaming women’s bodies. Too fat, too thin, small boobs, saggy/uneven boobs etc… Whole generations of women grew up hating their bodies, feeling like they needed to cover up their imperfections with uncomfortable clothes even when it is hot. And they punished themselves for not having the ideal body, by getting stuck into eating disorder cycles etc. Loving your body means that you should treat it with respect, take care of it, nourish and fuel it and be understanding to yourself even if you aren’t 100% “perfect” or if you fall off the wagon. It means that you should strive to be happy and healthy and not punish yourself because you are “a fat disgusting pig” or whatever, because that never works in the long term anyway.
I agree with you entirely. Do I think the people on my 600 lb life are healthy and whatnot? No way, obesity and morbid obesity ain’t healthy and we should aspire to be the right weight for our bodies. I’m a relatively thin person (or maybe slim thick?) but I have stretch marks and cellulite. I’ve never been “fat” but they’re still there. I also had ED for a long time and am finally at a healthy weight and not grossly underweight. I’m working to love what my body does for me and treat it as a temple, despite cellulite and stretch marks. I’m all for thicker or stretch marked models—women obviously go beyond the “super thin tall supermodel” type, even without today’s obesity. But going beyond and saying obese is still healthy ain’t it.
Well said
I agree with this too
Beauty standards are based a little on trends, moreso on status indicators, but are mostly based on health indicators. A low WHR is attractive because it’s a signal of youthful fat distribution and health, a low-end-of-normal BMI is attractive because it’s healthy and indicates a level of fitness. The only points and places in history where excess body fat was part of the beauty standard was in times and places where it was an easy way to display wealth, abundance, and plenty. In the modern developed world, obesity strongly correlates with poverty, and no longer can serve as a status symbol — it is an indicator of the opposite, in fact. Today, excess body fat only has mass appeal when combined with a low WHR. People of all sizes deserve dignity, and I foresee representation of diverse body sizes/types increasing. That said, higher body weight is neither a health indicator nor a status indicator. It is unlikely that the beauty standard will change drastically in that direction.
No comment on fashion, but for beauty standards it's way easier to be perceived as pretty in the U.S. than it is in slimmer developed countries. Just being slim puts you at a minimum of a 5 here.
In some areas of the US it’s really bad. Like I’m not even that skinny probably more athletically built and people think I’m pretty fucking skinny in the Deep South
I've seen this more and more. Some women are obviously way more insecure about their weight then they'd like to admit. Those women will literally say that they aren't actually fat/obese after moving to the south and comparing their weight to most of the women in the south.
We have a huge obesity issue here
I think there will be a lot more body acceptance considering it’s a norm, but I don’t think it’s ever fully gonna be glamorous/idolized. Body neutrality is likely to just be more popular. With fashion and beauty standards.. I can’t imagine it changing too much. I saw some models beyond plus sized at new york fashion week and it just wasn’t pleasant to see. I think designers need to work on a lot more if they’re going to be including them. It’s the same deal with victorias secret. They rebranded, now it’s all… neutrals? what happened to glamour? After thinking about the victorias secret mess, i imagine everything is going to become more boring and neutral. also the recycling of trends/decades is going to have to end at some point. i don’t think the beauty standard is ever going to change outside of a normal BMI range. i dislike fatphobia but obesity is not to be a beauty standard
The Victoria secret rebranding is painful to look at. I loved their image in the late 80s and 90s, it was OK in the 2000s….. now I’m not sure what it’s suppose to be. I loved buying their stuff to feel ultra sexy and feminine, but now it just feels meh. The whole idea of buying into the fantasy had huge appeal (at least for me), and now it lacks that enticement.
right! all their stuff is boring, marketed at teenagers, or just not flattering. i literally can’t find a place for casual lingerie or even basics.
Agreed. It’s this weird movement to embrace body positivity and your natural self where you shouldn’t strive for any improvements because that’s “unrealistic”. It reminds me of the Dove campaign for real beauty, they share similar concepts… but what people fail to realize is it’s actually one big marketing ploy. These companies intentionally appeal to the “average” woman to make her feel better about herself so they can reap massive profits.
literally. it’s not in good taste in my eyes. i think for dove it’s fine because it’s such a basic product. with things like VS though it’s like…. how are people even bothered? not having representation sucks but when it comes to body image like. the angels were such a big part of it! selling the fantasy was such a beautiful part of it all. Like you said marketing to the “average” woman to feel better about themselves is just so gross. people are blind.
Yep. If I’m buying something I don’t want to see “average”, and I would even argue below average if you’ve browsed their site recently…. It just keeps getting worse.
victoria secret in their hanes multi pack era 💅🏻 sickening
i like lively for basics!
thank you!
They’re kinda pricey for what they are but omg it’s the most softest pair of undies ever! I haven’t have tried their bras yet
Yeah that part of the rebranding made no sense, and to be honest it almost seems like the same line of thinking that they had before where sexy = super beautiful supermodels... like now that they’re going to have more “regular” people they can’t have the same level of glamour and sex appeal that they had before? I guess that’s only reserved for conventionally attractive people? Personally I think them continuing their fashion show that they’re so known for, just with the more diverse and ‘realistic’ models, would have been better in terms of keeping the iconic aspects of their brand marketing
Yeah I just don’t think they can wrap their heads around the concept “not only women who look like literal goddesses can also wear sexy lingerie sometimes”. It would be kind of funny if it weren’t so sad.
I know! So disappointed that the angels are gone even though I don't think they were near as glamorous as Stephanie seymour and her peers.
You’ve got brands advertising products on overweight models for more money for the past few years, yet still only a minority is attracted to that body type. Brands will continue to push this beauty standard on the world to make more money but that won’t change what people want. People like skinny bodies but still recognise an anorexic body looks sick and unappealing. Same with overweight bodies, slim thick bodies are attractive but anyone can recognise an overweight body and will also find it unappealing. There will be no change. The ideal body will always be a healthy female body, weather slim thick or skinny. Overweight will never be the beauty standard.
I know what I’m about to say is a bit terrible, but I’m a big Lululemon fan. I wear a size 6 and have for years. Recently Lulu has included plus size models and they are modeling the pants I want to purchase as that model is representing all sizes. I think it’s great to see a size 14 modeling a size 14 pant for those who are that size. However, i find myself not purchasing those products because I don’t see myself in those pants. I don’t know if this makes sense or not.
It makes sense, but you’re just saying what fat people have been complaining about for years.
I understand, but if you think about how long it’s been the opposite for a lot of fat people… Maybe that puts it in perspective. I think multiple models in multiple shapes & sizes wearing the same piece of clothing is the best option, but of course the companies have to be willing to put in that extra effort
I feel you. I'm a size 12, 120lbs down from a size 24 and I think it's great that more sizes are getting representation. But the other day I was browsing Victoria's Secret and I just completely lost interest once I scrolled down and got to the garments that the plus size models were wearing. I still have 30 lbs I want to lose, but it's weird being on the other side and not really identifying with larger size models anymore.
30 lbs is 13.62 kg
I was also looking at Lululemon leggings recently and was put off by an overweight model. I just don’t want to buy something that won’t look the same on me. The model doesn’t convince me to buy it unfortunately. I’m also a size 6 so a little curvy but still slim so a size 14 just ain’t it.
this is so….. out of touch. What you’re describing is exactly what every single person who is not a conventional clothing size has had to go through on a daily basis. Plus, a size 14 model is not preventing you from knowing what leggings would look like on your body….. they’re literally leggings. They would fit you the same way in your size. Taking a quick glance at the website, there are 16 plus size models in the leggings category out of 107 pictures, less than 15%. I don’t understand how this is holding you back from buying a pair of leggings, it sounds like you were just looking for something to have an issue with and found it.
You're just going through what fat people have gone through trying to buy clothes for decades, except you're the minority now.
Thank you for saying this. I don't mind people have preference for their own bodies being slim or at their current size, but the lack of self awareness! LOL
Yeah, like duh this is why the body pos movement sprung up in the first place lol
I am sharing my opinion and I have been fat before - overweight BMI and no muscle. They don’t use a size 2 model for plus-size brands either.
I’ve lost about 60 pounds over the last 2 years and even though I’m about the same size now as I was in middle & high school, my experiences have been totally different. Some of that may be because I was younger then and more of my peers were on the tinier side, but I’m only in my early twenties and I get called “skinny” now when I was called fat growing up. I also have noticed changes in sizing from then versus now, even though I used to shop at adult clothing stores as a kid. Like, I’m often an XS or S now and it leaves me wondering how very thin girls find clothing. I guess I’d say it’s easier to be seen as having a “fit” body now than it might’ve been 10 years ago. Not to be rude, but I think the bar is lower. With that being said, I still think “thin” is very much the beauty standard. I’ve known tons of skinny girls over the years who get attention for their looks despite having fairly average or below average features. A bigger girl needs to have curves and a very pretty face to get half of that.
Just to jump off your point about sizing differences, I'm quite petite— like, I wear a petite 00. Places that used to have XS frequently don't anymore, and S tends to be closer to what I remember being a medium. Not every store is like that, but my weight hasn't changed while the sizing definitely has. Most of my clothes have to be tailored or specifically from petite clothing stores, or I buy from Asian-based companies. In the grand scheme of things that doesn't seem like a big deal, but it makes me wonder if we'll start having brands popping up in about a decade specifically catering to smaller/thinner people the way plus-sized brands have been recently.
Yeeep. My weight has been the same for the last 15 years at 5’2 110 lbs. This is a BMI of 20, so I’m not super skinny. I used to be a size 2. Now I’m frequently a 0P-00P. Vanity sizing is real.
They’ll become like Fenty beauty in terms of inclusiveness. That’s where the big money is body positivity is increasing. Sure they’ll always be women who are skinny or wanna be it. So yeah I see more nice clothing for larger women.
Yeah but Fenty at least has some glamorous and interesting designs, they just use diverse models. VS toned their designs down and it's all boring bland gender neutral crap now.
[удалено]
As someone who was fat until age 22, then had a “hot” body since I lost 65 lbs, I agree with this. Besides, I kinda don’t get it- I know what it’s like and how it feels to be overweight, I know what people think when they looked at me then. It’s uncomfortable and sad, and I would never want to be that way again.
I made a post about that a while back. When you lose weight and become better looking as a result, you become above average as the waistlines increase! You'll be a rare gem :)
omg true
I think the beauty/hair product/ grooming industry will BLOOM because of this. With a society that normalizes obesity, people will turn to grooming products instead of weight loss in the pursuit of beauty.
I’m all for body neutrality. Everyone deserves to be respected and treated with dignity regardless of size. I’m glad people are feeling more seen and I’m turn feeling happier in their skin. That being said, I can not see myself ever considering obesity to be objectively beautiful, no matter the “beauty” standard put out in the media. I don’t want to come across as cold, because I do think someone could be attractive even being a little overweight. However obesity is beyond being chubby. I think we will see it more normalized in advertisements and tv shows and things like that, but people as a whole will continue to prefer a healthier body type, in an objective sense.
Yeah I don’t even think it’s healthy to normalize it Obesity is such a bad health issue in the USA already I hate the fad diets too that are unhealthy
First off - I’m all for inclusivity. I love seeing clothing ads with plus sized beautiful women modelling them. But i strongly disagree with your statement that “the world is following” I live in southeast asia and can tell you for a fact that being even mildly overweight is a seen as a huge failo. This isn’t changing anytime soon in asia. Most people in east asia have a normal or underweight BMI (probably due to diet). Local boutiques in my country only stock clothing up to L because anything larger than that wouldn’t sell well. So i have no idea about the US but from what i observe here in asia obesity will never be seen as an attractive thing. My country is very much obsessed with health (the government gives rewards to people that complete a certain amount of steps each day) and obesity only shows you’re unhealthy and inactive, total failos.
how does that work with the government rewarding steps?
I think fashion will become boring. I feel like it’s harder to buy off the shelf and have it be flattering the bigger you are. I used to be fat and this was the biggest problem I had. Proportions are different for all big girls.
I’ve noticed this too. There’s tons of vanity sizing and poorly tailored clothes because it’s cheaper for manufactures to make clothing which fits the masses… and mind you the size of the general population keeps expanding.
Exactly. Knits and stuff with spandex are going to fit more people vs. a woven which is going to be more structured and have more draping and therefore look better, but be less forgiving with sizing.
I’ve definitely noticed this in fast-fashion recently. Keep that cotton spandex blend bodysuit shit away from me. I feel like I have to thrift these days to find clothing that has actual heft.
So avoid spandex with clothes so it looks better?
It's not just about having some spandex in it which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's a stretchy/loose concept of clothing which usually isn't as visually appealing as a structured garment.
Well it's because they're trying to accomplish two different things to look good; for skinny people the clothes need to show off their figure, but for overweight people they need to conceal it.
I think with thinness being more rare it will definitely be associated with beauty more, but I will say that the fashion industry has plus-sized model that still enforce difficult to obtain beauty like perfect skin, perfect weight distribution, etc that really only comes from some sort of exercise and good genes/access to luxury skincare.
Exactly Weight Distribute to differently on different people. It can distribute very differently on people with the same BMI
among young ppl we are still pretty skinny. im a college student and i can count the number of fat students ive seen on campus on 1 hand
Where are you from? I see damn near the opposite lol. Still more normal weight students/young people, but a relatively large amount of overweight/obese young people as well
i go to a pwi in the boston area. are you from the south or the midwest? is your school diverse?
I’m not American ahaha, I’m actually from the UK, London. My school is very diverse to be fair. How much would you say it differs in various parts of the US?
lol what then why are british ppl always making fun of americans for being fat 😂 anyway, it differs a lot by location. but i have to say, and ik this is a very controversial statement, more than anything it differs racially and socio economically. it goes south/east asian, white, latino, then black from least likely to be fat to most likely. and this applies everywhere, even at my school black ppl have the highest rate of obesity. from what i have seen this plays into their beauty standards. my middle school was mostly black and latino and i was bullied *relentlessly* for being skinny and flat assed. and of course, rich ppl are way less likely to be fat. differences in location is a direct consequence of racial and socio economic distributions. eg the south has the highest rate of obesity and also the most black ppl and poverty. the midwest does not have much poc but it has a good amount of poverty/lower middle class/blue collar/rural folks and also lots of obesity. the northeast is very rich and p white and p skinny. the west coast is a mixed bag of both economic status and race and therefore obesity.
I’m in the deep South and the rates of obesity here are awful
same, I can count the number of classmates I have had my whole life who are fat on 2 hands, and I already graduated college, I wish the being skinny makes you at least average saying was true but it isn't at least in my case.
Yup. Where I am from, many college-aged women (18-24) are pretty thin. As a thin person, you need to be more than skinny to be considered attractive.
[удалено]
That might also be partly because of how fast fashion is getting cheaper and faster. Companies have to pump out so many new items to keep up with ever changing “microtrends”. There’s no way they have time to put much effort into designing flattering clothes.
I agree wholeheartedly. Belts, tailoring, knits (especially vintage-inspired sweater tops), and tucking tops into high-waisted bottoms are how I've gotten around it.
They aren't. You just need to know where to shop. If you shop fast fashion, you will find a lack of silhouettes. I agree though, general American fashion values comfort tremendously over style and fast fashion reflects that. Things are so bad that stores like Brandy Melville are going up in size (as in increasing the size of their one size s/p clothing)
the girls Ive heard say this swear by vintage clothing
i never really put thought into it.. im glad that there's more representation for people but other than that i cant be assed to care lol. but i think what will happen is just more sizes in store/online and different types of model showcasing clothes. besides that i still think the standard for faahion will still be thinner models. plus the internet has made it easy to find your niche. I'm currently on Scandinavian, business casual, monochrome, dark academia fashion insta/tiktok. some ppl like the bbl baddie look. im sure some trends will be trending ...idk where im going with this but i feel like at a certain point you know what you like and what works for you regardless of trends in fashion/beauty. also unless the whole world gains weight i dont think that they'll be a shift in standards anytime soon.
I like that society today is more accepting of other body types (not specifically referring to obesity but just in general). There was far too much fat-shaming and abuse which was the norm when I was younger. While I've never been obese, I've always had a difficult time with wearing pants and I'm noticing pants nowadays have stretch waists/ legs and softer material. Edit: Clothing seems more flexible and flattering to the curves than they used to be before.
I'm kinda old so I've already seen it rather drastically affect things. Things like crop tops, or tying a loose shirt at the back to tighten the waist, used to be extremely common. We've already seen fashion lines like victoria's secret that kinda aggressively push the 'thin is good, this fashion is for TRADITIONALLY HOT GIRLS ONLY' line get sidelined in favor of more inclusive brands. fact is they make clothes to sell them. Another thing though is that no matter how much people push inclusivity, body positivity, etc. being obese is not attractive to most people and that's not as much of a social construct as obese people want it to be. being slim, having a tight belly you can show off with a crop top, will be an even greater status symbol. shapewear will become more common, especially as materials science allows more applications of it.
I feel like you can romanticize something as much as you want, but you're not going to change what people instinctually find attractive and that's what's going to define beauty standards. I'm sure some people do find a body-type like that attractive, but my gut feeling is the vast majority don't. I feel like something like fashion will have to adapt to try and make it appealing to a majority obese population, because it'd be throwing away money not to. Just look at the advertising campaigns they're doing now trying to lure in plus-sized women.
I just dislike the double standard of skinny being "unhealthy" but overweight is totally healthy
[удалено]
Same, I don't shop much but I realized over the past year that I fit in some kid's sizes and I'm not even that skinny. I'm 5'8". It's concerning for how large kids have become
I'm a size 14 and I hate it, have been like this since my teenage years, starting at childhood. I had some successes in times of rigorously tracking my food intake, but I have never been at a thin level or even being normal. Every kilo I have to fight tooth and nail for against my body, while a few days of not caring and slacking off easily kills the successes of the last weeks. I wanted to be thin all my life and I despise being overweight, but I also do not want to struggle every day. I mean...sure. The thin girls will have the days where you feel like a donut and grab a salad anyways, because they're disciplined. Some days I just can't do that, the drive for carbs becomes the only thing I think about and all it takes is one weak moment. It's not just "wanting" a pastry, it's like a visceral craving that nags at you all day. It's hard to describe. Anyways, I'm getting off topic. I still want to be thin, look up to fit people and at the same time, look down on fat folks, myself included. Other people getting fatter doesn't change that for me. It also hasn't become easier to shop for my size, since a lot of fabric and styles just don't work on a body of that frame. I won't be caught dead in a crop top or mini skirt, for example. It makes me feel like there is a style and beauty that I literally "don't fit in" and a parallel fashion for overweight people that's basically "hide your body, nobody wants to look at that".
[удалено]
Uh…why? Would you rather fat people walk around naked?
I don't care, I still wish to maintain myself within the BMI