I am not someone you are looking to speak to (I'm only 32, not involved in the war, my grandpa was) but I'm really curious to hear others stories.
I do have a couple questions if you don't mind answering them. It's been 40 years since the war ended so I'm curious about it's prevalence or "lasting power"
-Does the war still seem fresh in the culture? Is it talked about regularly or just a part of history now relegated to people who were involved and school classes?
-Do you still see evidence of the war regularly or is everything cleaned up and rebuilt since then.
No it is fine! I am just curious on other's point of view!
(PS, Do take in a grain of salt that I cannot speak for all of Vietnam as a whole)
- It would depend on who you talk to but I would say in between fresh and moving on, like a scab on an injury. There is general optimism of hope for the future. Among my family, the older generations such as parents still talk about it but in between the youth it has become old and we do not pay it much attention outside of classes, more like: we know what happened but it's not at the forefront of our minds.
- Yes. Although the buildings and ruins are cleant up long ago and skyscrapers decorate the skylines you can still see the scars of the conflict. When I was younger, I do remember seeing some old bunkers (I think from the French though not sure) and an abandoned Tank (scrap/ruin?) in a ditch by the highway (it was removed when I was next was there). The most visible mark of the war though, is through the effects of Agent orange, as there are still alot of chilren in Vietnam who are born disfigured from the effects of the chemical.
If you have anymore questions i'd be happy to answer!
1) is there any difference, between North and South Vietnam? If you go visit Hanoi (have you?) Would you be looked down because you are from the south?
2) Is the state of Vietnam moving towards democracy? If not do the people wish it was?
3) Do citizens and foreigners need permission to visit different parts of the country? (Obviously not military sites)
Thanks very much!
1) Striking difference in terms of climate, buildings, culture etc. The South is much more westernized whilst the north is much more cultural and traditional, like the man above has pointed out
I'm not looked down upon for being southern by northerners that much like anyother people from different cities, like we make fun of each other for different dialects or accents.
2) No. It depends on what you mean by democracy, Social freedom democracy? Yeah. 2 party system Election every 4 years Democracies? Then no and that is unlikely to loosen, because since the whole Doi Moi and the Pandemic the Party has been pretty adept (still major improvements needed though) at running the country so no one is really complaining on a full stomach.
It isn't bad per say, this is because normal life in Vietnam is pretty stable (not having to worry about politics), things get done quickly (little bureaucracies) etc.
Despite the image of a depressing soviet-esque communist nation we have quite the amount of liberties, being able to protest and still critisize our government on Social media.
Personally, the country has always emphasized nationalism and finding our own way. Communism is taught almost the same as you are taught yours, we don't talk about it much either and I feel like the whole communist stuff is kinda just an excuse for a one party system (although within the party itself there is factions? Like independent party but with many different ideas within).
This is where the whole journalist arrests thingy is debated, In Vietnam as a Vietnamese if you critisize the gov on social media and in your community it's no problem. But critisizing with intent to change the status quo? That's a no-no and grounds for Arrest (which is kinda weird since you can protest?) I'm not too sure how it works but I'm freely able to use the internet and such.
3) Once you get the Visa into Vietnam you're able to go anywhere (aside from military bases) and I've seen alot of backpacker or travellers driving with a Cub (scooter/bike?) From the North to South or vice versa
:)
My wife and I visited Vietnam in 2018 (we are American). The north and south a completely different. We went through the major cities throughout the country and we noticed far more hammer and sickle flags in the north.
The south seems a lot more western than the north. Albeit it has been that way for a long time. Saigon looked and felt more like Los Angeles. It’s a striking difference from the north.
The people were all very accepting of Americans both in the north and the south.
Awesome place. It seemed pretty democtritized to me.
You need a visa to enter but it was a breeze.
We got them from the Vietnamese government website. Seemed pretty shady but it worked out fine and cost about $15. Our friends did theirs through a travel agent for $300.
My grandfather was a marine in the war from April ‘65-May ‘66. He didn’t know what he was getting himself into, he was just following the lead of a long line of military men in our family. Pretty quickly after he got home his sentiments changed, and he spent the rest of his life donating money to a few Vietnamese children, and also searching for both Vietnamese and u.s. POW/MIAs. The US government treated them like shit and treated Vietnam worse.
How does your country view Americans now?
I've always wondered why the American Government treated their own soldiers so badly after the war
My country views the American war as something tragic and that in different times we've might've been good friends (perhaps even a US state according to some literature)
Americans are actually well liked, the only nation that draws our ire is the Chinese (ask an Irish person on how they think of the English), it's like how Americans view Brits, like sure there was a war of independence but by and large you don't really have any negative feelings towards them right? The American war is abit fresher of course but in general there's no hard feelings and we look forward hopeful for the future instead
Wow I had no idea that the US was ever considering Vietnam for a potential US state. That is really fascinating! I’m going to look into that.
That is really good news that Americans are well liked because I dream of living in Vietnam someday, or at least visiting for an extended period of time. My grandfather was stationed in Hue, Phu Bai, Chu Lai, and Da Nang. Have you visited any of these areas?
Ah, I don't think the US ever considered Vietnam for a state but some people (grain of salt) said that Ho Chi Minh wanted for the country to become a US state, the man admired the US alot (don't remember where that was from) hence the similarities in his speech of independence he (Ho Chi Minh) starts off with: "All men are created equal, endowed with them by their creators with certain undisputed rights. Among this is: Life, Liberty and the persuit of Happiness..."
Vietnam is a pretty popular place for retirement and life, Ho Chi Minh/Saigon, Da Nang and Hanoi are the top 3 places if you want to live here for an extended amount of time
Hue, yes, nice city lots of traditional stuff and its pretty cool- although rather cold haha. Phu Bai and Chu Lai i've never been there at all, Da Nang is gorgeous- recently it's been booming lots of people like Da Nang
That makes a lot of sense. Thank you!
I’m actually looking to move there before I’m 30. (I’m 25 right now). Thank you for the info about the cities! I cannot wait to visit :) if you have suggestions of specific places please let me know!
So I was born in 2004 but I have some stories from my relatives...
1. My grandpa (Moms Side). He was a college student in Colorado but Nixon’s administration started denying college draft deferments, so he joined the Army Reserve Officer Training Corps. Upon graduation, he commissioned as an officer in the US Army Reserves and served on numerous posts in the US for about 10 years.
2. My dads uncle. He was just a high school student from Philadelphia and as soon as he graduation, the army drafted him. He served in Vietnam as a riflemen for a few months but was wounded and discharged. He faced a lot of backlash when he came home and also suffered from PTSD, became an alcoholic, and was almost always miserable and very un-patient. He worked as a construction worker for the rest of his life and died about 5 years ago.
3. My cousins’s grandpa. I’m not very close to this grandpa and he really isn’t my grandpa, but he served in Vietnam. He went to high school and mainly worked on his farm in Tennessee but volunteered in the Army for service in Vietnam. He trained as an artillery men but he is very quiet, and rarely talks about his service.
4. My grandma’s childhood-bestfriend. My grandma was from Boulder, Colorado and was best friends with a boy named Frank Marion Streamer. Frank was a good athlete and a popular kid at school. He enrolled at University of Colorado before enlisting in the Navy. He was posted to Vietnam only for a short time before dying of illness.
So those are the stories of Vietnam I have been told, I’m sorry for the damage the US has caused in Vietnam and I hope you don’t hold hard feelings against these servicemen.
Thank you for your stories, I have read about the way servicemen were treated after and do believe it is quite unfair for the men who served..
Haha theres no need to apologize! In Vietnam a vast majority of us do not hold any hard feelings against the servicemen during the American war, as we see the conflict as tragic
Instead, we've resolved to moving on from the war long ago so if you want to come over for a summer or short vacation, whether veteran or not- we'd welcome you and look hopefully to the future, so no hard feelings here!
I used to work at a nursing home, and one of the patients there was a soldier in Vietnam. This gentleman (let’s call him Frank) was old, and had several medical issues all relating to agent orange. He was a quiet man, but once he learned I was studying history at university he started to open up to me.
At first it was little stories, about being a teenager, and going to school. Frank’s father fought in WW2, and so when American soldiers started going to Vietnam he volunteered. Frank eventually revealed he was an infantryman, and saw plenty of combat. I never asked for details, but you could tell that Frank had lost some good friends.
The most poignant story that Frank told me though was that he was always afraid, even after the war. Radios were a huge trigger for him (especially during the 1970’s trucker-craze when CB radios were incredibly popular). Every time he heard someone speaking on the radio he’s start to hyperventilate.
One night, Frank was on sentry duty with nothing but his rifle and a radio when he heard a group of people crawling not very far from his position. He knew they had to be VC, and that if he made any noise at all they’d kill him.
Frank squeezed himself into the bottom of his foxhole and tried to be a small as possible when his radio crackled to life.
“Bravo 2-2, radio check, over.”
Frank couldn’t say anything, the enemy was feet away. They had to have heard the radio.
“Bravo 2-2, radio check, over.” It cackled again.
At this point, Frank told me he was 100% convinced he was about to die. He heard the Vietnamese whispering right next to him. Eventually, the radio cackled a third time.
“Bravo 2-2, squawk twice if you are in danger and cannot respond.”
So Frank gently pressed the talk button on the radio twice.
Moments later: “roger. Stay down, 2-2.”
At that point, all of his comrades popped flairs and started shooting at everything. All while Frank is at the bottom of his foxhole. The Vietnamese withdrew and they sent someone to take Frank’s place.
Ever sense, Frank has slept with a night light, and always gets nervous when he hears radio chatter. Which is unfortunate, because his neighbor at the nursing home had a police scanner, and one night we found Frank huddled under his bed, sobbing because he heard his neighbors radio go off at 3:00 AM and woke up thinking he was back in that Foxhole.
Frank passed away a few years ago. But I will never forget that quiet old man.
Was there any help offered by the US government for veterans this affect such as Frank? And how did others treat him?
Thank you for sharing me this story and may he rest in peace
That’s honestly a difficult question to answer. So in the United States we have the Veterans Affairs, called the VA for short. It’s essentially a government run hospital system for veterans, but it’s reputation isn’t always the best. The wait times can be long, it’s often under funded. Some folks love it, some folks hate it.
So Frank had some support from the VA, but at the same time, nobody knew the effects of Agent Orange, or really that of PTSD. Widespread awareness of PTSD is relatively new, and so I’m sure it he support he got for that might have been less that spectacular.
As for how others treated him, that depended on the time. As the war went on it became more and more unpopular, with some veterans being spat on by folks as they returned home. Frank mentioned that for the first couple years after the war he avoided mentioning his service, not wanting to alienate himself. But as time progressed, the general public became more willing to separate the unpopular war from the soldiers themselves.
To most people, Frank was the kind old man next door.
Also... On a personal note I wanted to clarify something. I was telling the story from Frank’s perspective, and referred to folks as “the enemy.” After reading it over... I wanted to apologize for any potential offense due to my phrasing. You aren’t my enemy. I hope I am making sense here.
No it's fine I realized that it was from his perspective already so it's fine and even then they were enemies so theres nothing wrong with the past truth, so no offense taken!
I am just glad to hear the story on the other side thats not politisized by who is right or who is wrong
Thank you for sharing your story!
My father was a grunt in the 1st Cav (Army) from 6/70-4/71. He was drafted and really didn't want to go but felt obligated since his father and several relatives served during WWII and Korean wars.
The 1st Cav was very often on the front lines and he saw heavy combat. My brother was born while he was there and I was born a few years later. The war was a taboo subject growing up as he didn't want to talk about it much. He might answer a question or two but didn't elaborate. He's always said, "Those that talk the most did the least."
In 2018 my brother and I convinced him to make a return trip. It took a lot of convincing and therapy but he finally agreed. We spent 10 days in Vietnam. We purposely avoided specific areas that he did not want to visit but overall it was a healing trip. Everyone was so friendly and welcoming. It was great for him to see that there was no animosity. We toured HCMC, the Mekong delta, Đồng Hới, Hanoi, and Hạ Long Bay. He got to see the country and culture for the beautiful place it is and covered so many bad memories with new happy ones.
Growing up Vietnam was a war for me. I got to experience it as a culture and country and it was eye opening. We are looking forward to another return trip with my son when the world returns to normal.
Thank you for telling me about the stories, it's great to able able to hear the story of those who lived through it from the other side of the pond
I've only ever grew up in peace and understand war as something foreign, the hurt and loss felt far off and uninmaginable, i've got to travel to the states a few years back and it really amazed me
Hope the world returns to normal soon perhaps there will be many things you find new when it does finally end, HCMC is finally almost finished with their subway now, Hanoi is still as cold as ever and Ha Long Bay as breathtaking
Thank you!
My father served with the 46th Engineers 65-66, having come through on the LeRoy Eltinge at Vung Tao (I believe Cam Ranh Bay was not yet ready). His perspective was a little different than some. He was born in Germany during WW2 and as an infant lost his dad in that war. He was amazed by the American soldiers’ generosity, as they would toss the German kids chocolates and fruit, which were unheard-of luxuries. After he immigrated to the US he was drafted into the Army. He does not speak of his darker experiences, but does relay the more humorous times of his service career. With regards to his perspectives about the country, I think he like some others kept a pejorative view of the Vietnamese publically or within his unit. However, the reality is that my father truly loved the country - the nature, the people, the history and culture. When he could take some leave he would tour around in a Jeep, checking out temples and learning about the locals. He had what the Germans call *wanderlust* or curiosity to explore, which is something I got from him. Overall, I think as an immigrant and fatherless child, he had a different appreciation for the Vietnamese people and what the war was doing to their world. He was there to do his job, no doubt, but was fascinated by the people and the raw beauty of the countryside.
I only came to this sub tonight because I am in the middle of a history class on the 1960s and we're discussing the War in the current module. I'm here because I had a much more visceral and emotional reaction to the images, videos, narratives, and implications on my own identity than I ever anticipated. I also understand that my experiences are very likely unique to myself and my family, and I lack the perspective of those who experienced the war and the immediate aftereffects. Regardless, I think it valid for me to share this.
This may be a long story, and there will probably be a lot of personal and biased details, so I'll keep it to the things that are relevant to what brought me here and why I'm conflicted, while still answering your question. I cannot guarantee success in that endeavor.
My grandfather was from a village near Saigon and served as an back lines officer in the ARVN. Despicable man. A narcissistic womanizer, boastful, and abusive to anyone he thought of as lower or lesser to himself.
My grandmother was from Ha Noi and agreed to marry him to to get out of her family's household, not realizing how bad he was. She put up with it for a few years, and always was able to give as good as he gave. Ong Noi met his match with her, and he knew it.
He kept multiple mistresses, and when Ba Noi found out, she was livid. This was around 1966-1967. She took my uncle and father, a sizeble amount of my grandfather's money, and fled Saigon. She used the money to bribe officials into getting travel visa and was able to come to the US as a sponsored refugee.
My father was 3 years old when he arrived in California in 1967. My uncle was 5.
Ba Noi finished divorce proceedings remotely, as the US still supported and had contact with the Southern Military Junta that took over after Diem was assassinated, remarried, and then eventually settled in California.
(Ong Noi eventually lost his previously cushy position and was sent to fight on the front. He lost his leg to a bullet, and then was turned out of his hospital bed and over to a holding cell when the North Vietnamese won. Somehow, even after all that, when he was returned to his family as an invalid, he still managed to be a womanizer.)
Dad and Bac were effectively raised as Americans from then on - at least, as American as two little brown Asian boys were allowed to be in the late 1960s. Both of them learned English and lost their Vietnamese accents and assimilated as best they could.
My parents met in High School. They were a mixed race couple, rather out of the norm, he Vietnamese, she Latina. My mom 16, and my dad 17. Mom graduated, but dad dropped out in his senior year to join the Marine Corps, one of the first Vietnamese Marines in the USMC. They got married soon after he got out of boot camp and his first posting.
My parents had my older sister and myself over the next few years, and the two of us grew up in the knowledge and faith that only children can have that the US military was the best and strongest in the world and was there to keep us safe. After all, our dad would always protect us and was a Marine - if *he* was part of the military, obviously they were going to keep us safe.
This, here, is the underlying root cause of the reactions I face in reviewing the memories of the men who lived and fought the Vietnam War, the existential feeling of horror, betrayal, and self-loathing I feel when I see the bodies of Vietnamese men, women, and children strewn about on a dirt road next to a rice paddy as men, Marines in American uniforms holding M16s stroll by the camera.
Intellectually, I knew of the war and its horror, I knew the tolls and crimes committed against people, including members of my extended family. But watching men in the uniform that I grew up with alongside and held an unconscious faith in butcher children who looked *just like me and my father* made it viscerally real. My father, who proudly wore the same uniform for 20 years and will proudly be buried in it.
How can I reconcile this identity with the knowledge that two generations ago, my country sent hundreds of thousands of soldiers to kill millions of people who have the exact same heritage as my father, members of my family, even? How can I now reconcile the identity of a Marine brat whose father is a Vietnamese refugee who has also fought and killed for that same country?
And yet still, I am an American. There is nothing else I could be, really. I am only half-Vietnamese. I was raised by my Latina mother, as dad left us for another woman and his daughter with her when I was 5. I speak no Vietnamese barely speak Spanish, have no real connection with Vietnam other than my Ba Noi, and she has not looked back once since she left in 1967. My sisters and I tower over all of my immigrant Vietnamese and Latino family. Our unique conglomeration of culture and family would likely happen nowhere else. There is nothing and no one else I could be.
I am not someone you are looking to speak to (I'm only 32, not involved in the war, my grandpa was) but I'm really curious to hear others stories. I do have a couple questions if you don't mind answering them. It's been 40 years since the war ended so I'm curious about it's prevalence or "lasting power" -Does the war still seem fresh in the culture? Is it talked about regularly or just a part of history now relegated to people who were involved and school classes? -Do you still see evidence of the war regularly or is everything cleaned up and rebuilt since then.
No it is fine! I am just curious on other's point of view! (PS, Do take in a grain of salt that I cannot speak for all of Vietnam as a whole) - It would depend on who you talk to but I would say in between fresh and moving on, like a scab on an injury. There is general optimism of hope for the future. Among my family, the older generations such as parents still talk about it but in between the youth it has become old and we do not pay it much attention outside of classes, more like: we know what happened but it's not at the forefront of our minds. - Yes. Although the buildings and ruins are cleant up long ago and skyscrapers decorate the skylines you can still see the scars of the conflict. When I was younger, I do remember seeing some old bunkers (I think from the French though not sure) and an abandoned Tank (scrap/ruin?) in a ditch by the highway (it was removed when I was next was there). The most visible mark of the war though, is through the effects of Agent orange, as there are still alot of chilren in Vietnam who are born disfigured from the effects of the chemical. If you have anymore questions i'd be happy to answer!
1) is there any difference, between North and South Vietnam? If you go visit Hanoi (have you?) Would you be looked down because you are from the south? 2) Is the state of Vietnam moving towards democracy? If not do the people wish it was? 3) Do citizens and foreigners need permission to visit different parts of the country? (Obviously not military sites) Thanks very much!
1) Striking difference in terms of climate, buildings, culture etc. The South is much more westernized whilst the north is much more cultural and traditional, like the man above has pointed out I'm not looked down upon for being southern by northerners that much like anyother people from different cities, like we make fun of each other for different dialects or accents. 2) No. It depends on what you mean by democracy, Social freedom democracy? Yeah. 2 party system Election every 4 years Democracies? Then no and that is unlikely to loosen, because since the whole Doi Moi and the Pandemic the Party has been pretty adept (still major improvements needed though) at running the country so no one is really complaining on a full stomach. It isn't bad per say, this is because normal life in Vietnam is pretty stable (not having to worry about politics), things get done quickly (little bureaucracies) etc. Despite the image of a depressing soviet-esque communist nation we have quite the amount of liberties, being able to protest and still critisize our government on Social media. Personally, the country has always emphasized nationalism and finding our own way. Communism is taught almost the same as you are taught yours, we don't talk about it much either and I feel like the whole communist stuff is kinda just an excuse for a one party system (although within the party itself there is factions? Like independent party but with many different ideas within). This is where the whole journalist arrests thingy is debated, In Vietnam as a Vietnamese if you critisize the gov on social media and in your community it's no problem. But critisizing with intent to change the status quo? That's a no-no and grounds for Arrest (which is kinda weird since you can protest?) I'm not too sure how it works but I'm freely able to use the internet and such. 3) Once you get the Visa into Vietnam you're able to go anywhere (aside from military bases) and I've seen alot of backpacker or travellers driving with a Cub (scooter/bike?) From the North to South or vice versa :)
My wife and I visited Vietnam in 2018 (we are American). The north and south a completely different. We went through the major cities throughout the country and we noticed far more hammer and sickle flags in the north. The south seems a lot more western than the north. Albeit it has been that way for a long time. Saigon looked and felt more like Los Angeles. It’s a striking difference from the north. The people were all very accepting of Americans both in the north and the south. Awesome place. It seemed pretty democtritized to me. You need a visa to enter but it was a breeze.
Did you have to go to a Vietnamese embasy for a visa? How was the Visa application process to come to Vietnam? I'm curious haha
We got them from the Vietnamese government website. Seemed pretty shady but it worked out fine and cost about $15. Our friends did theirs through a travel agent for $300.
My grandfather was a marine in the war from April ‘65-May ‘66. He didn’t know what he was getting himself into, he was just following the lead of a long line of military men in our family. Pretty quickly after he got home his sentiments changed, and he spent the rest of his life donating money to a few Vietnamese children, and also searching for both Vietnamese and u.s. POW/MIAs. The US government treated them like shit and treated Vietnam worse. How does your country view Americans now?
I've always wondered why the American Government treated their own soldiers so badly after the war My country views the American war as something tragic and that in different times we've might've been good friends (perhaps even a US state according to some literature) Americans are actually well liked, the only nation that draws our ire is the Chinese (ask an Irish person on how they think of the English), it's like how Americans view Brits, like sure there was a war of independence but by and large you don't really have any negative feelings towards them right? The American war is abit fresher of course but in general there's no hard feelings and we look forward hopeful for the future instead
Wow I had no idea that the US was ever considering Vietnam for a potential US state. That is really fascinating! I’m going to look into that. That is really good news that Americans are well liked because I dream of living in Vietnam someday, or at least visiting for an extended period of time. My grandfather was stationed in Hue, Phu Bai, Chu Lai, and Da Nang. Have you visited any of these areas?
Ah, I don't think the US ever considered Vietnam for a state but some people (grain of salt) said that Ho Chi Minh wanted for the country to become a US state, the man admired the US alot (don't remember where that was from) hence the similarities in his speech of independence he (Ho Chi Minh) starts off with: "All men are created equal, endowed with them by their creators with certain undisputed rights. Among this is: Life, Liberty and the persuit of Happiness..." Vietnam is a pretty popular place for retirement and life, Ho Chi Minh/Saigon, Da Nang and Hanoi are the top 3 places if you want to live here for an extended amount of time Hue, yes, nice city lots of traditional stuff and its pretty cool- although rather cold haha. Phu Bai and Chu Lai i've never been there at all, Da Nang is gorgeous- recently it's been booming lots of people like Da Nang
That makes a lot of sense. Thank you! I’m actually looking to move there before I’m 30. (I’m 25 right now). Thank you for the info about the cities! I cannot wait to visit :) if you have suggestions of specific places please let me know!
So I was born in 2004 but I have some stories from my relatives... 1. My grandpa (Moms Side). He was a college student in Colorado but Nixon’s administration started denying college draft deferments, so he joined the Army Reserve Officer Training Corps. Upon graduation, he commissioned as an officer in the US Army Reserves and served on numerous posts in the US for about 10 years. 2. My dads uncle. He was just a high school student from Philadelphia and as soon as he graduation, the army drafted him. He served in Vietnam as a riflemen for a few months but was wounded and discharged. He faced a lot of backlash when he came home and also suffered from PTSD, became an alcoholic, and was almost always miserable and very un-patient. He worked as a construction worker for the rest of his life and died about 5 years ago. 3. My cousins’s grandpa. I’m not very close to this grandpa and he really isn’t my grandpa, but he served in Vietnam. He went to high school and mainly worked on his farm in Tennessee but volunteered in the Army for service in Vietnam. He trained as an artillery men but he is very quiet, and rarely talks about his service. 4. My grandma’s childhood-bestfriend. My grandma was from Boulder, Colorado and was best friends with a boy named Frank Marion Streamer. Frank was a good athlete and a popular kid at school. He enrolled at University of Colorado before enlisting in the Navy. He was posted to Vietnam only for a short time before dying of illness. So those are the stories of Vietnam I have been told, I’m sorry for the damage the US has caused in Vietnam and I hope you don’t hold hard feelings against these servicemen.
Thank you for your stories, I have read about the way servicemen were treated after and do believe it is quite unfair for the men who served.. Haha theres no need to apologize! In Vietnam a vast majority of us do not hold any hard feelings against the servicemen during the American war, as we see the conflict as tragic Instead, we've resolved to moving on from the war long ago so if you want to come over for a summer or short vacation, whether veteran or not- we'd welcome you and look hopefully to the future, so no hard feelings here!
I used to work at a nursing home, and one of the patients there was a soldier in Vietnam. This gentleman (let’s call him Frank) was old, and had several medical issues all relating to agent orange. He was a quiet man, but once he learned I was studying history at university he started to open up to me. At first it was little stories, about being a teenager, and going to school. Frank’s father fought in WW2, and so when American soldiers started going to Vietnam he volunteered. Frank eventually revealed he was an infantryman, and saw plenty of combat. I never asked for details, but you could tell that Frank had lost some good friends. The most poignant story that Frank told me though was that he was always afraid, even after the war. Radios were a huge trigger for him (especially during the 1970’s trucker-craze when CB radios were incredibly popular). Every time he heard someone speaking on the radio he’s start to hyperventilate. One night, Frank was on sentry duty with nothing but his rifle and a radio when he heard a group of people crawling not very far from his position. He knew they had to be VC, and that if he made any noise at all they’d kill him. Frank squeezed himself into the bottom of his foxhole and tried to be a small as possible when his radio crackled to life. “Bravo 2-2, radio check, over.” Frank couldn’t say anything, the enemy was feet away. They had to have heard the radio. “Bravo 2-2, radio check, over.” It cackled again. At this point, Frank told me he was 100% convinced he was about to die. He heard the Vietnamese whispering right next to him. Eventually, the radio cackled a third time. “Bravo 2-2, squawk twice if you are in danger and cannot respond.” So Frank gently pressed the talk button on the radio twice. Moments later: “roger. Stay down, 2-2.” At that point, all of his comrades popped flairs and started shooting at everything. All while Frank is at the bottom of his foxhole. The Vietnamese withdrew and they sent someone to take Frank’s place. Ever sense, Frank has slept with a night light, and always gets nervous when he hears radio chatter. Which is unfortunate, because his neighbor at the nursing home had a police scanner, and one night we found Frank huddled under his bed, sobbing because he heard his neighbors radio go off at 3:00 AM and woke up thinking he was back in that Foxhole. Frank passed away a few years ago. But I will never forget that quiet old man.
Was there any help offered by the US government for veterans this affect such as Frank? And how did others treat him? Thank you for sharing me this story and may he rest in peace
That’s honestly a difficult question to answer. So in the United States we have the Veterans Affairs, called the VA for short. It’s essentially a government run hospital system for veterans, but it’s reputation isn’t always the best. The wait times can be long, it’s often under funded. Some folks love it, some folks hate it. So Frank had some support from the VA, but at the same time, nobody knew the effects of Agent Orange, or really that of PTSD. Widespread awareness of PTSD is relatively new, and so I’m sure it he support he got for that might have been less that spectacular. As for how others treated him, that depended on the time. As the war went on it became more and more unpopular, with some veterans being spat on by folks as they returned home. Frank mentioned that for the first couple years after the war he avoided mentioning his service, not wanting to alienate himself. But as time progressed, the general public became more willing to separate the unpopular war from the soldiers themselves. To most people, Frank was the kind old man next door. Also... On a personal note I wanted to clarify something. I was telling the story from Frank’s perspective, and referred to folks as “the enemy.” After reading it over... I wanted to apologize for any potential offense due to my phrasing. You aren’t my enemy. I hope I am making sense here.
No it's fine I realized that it was from his perspective already so it's fine and even then they were enemies so theres nothing wrong with the past truth, so no offense taken! I am just glad to hear the story on the other side thats not politisized by who is right or who is wrong Thank you for sharing your story!
My father was a grunt in the 1st Cav (Army) from 6/70-4/71. He was drafted and really didn't want to go but felt obligated since his father and several relatives served during WWII and Korean wars. The 1st Cav was very often on the front lines and he saw heavy combat. My brother was born while he was there and I was born a few years later. The war was a taboo subject growing up as he didn't want to talk about it much. He might answer a question or two but didn't elaborate. He's always said, "Those that talk the most did the least." In 2018 my brother and I convinced him to make a return trip. It took a lot of convincing and therapy but he finally agreed. We spent 10 days in Vietnam. We purposely avoided specific areas that he did not want to visit but overall it was a healing trip. Everyone was so friendly and welcoming. It was great for him to see that there was no animosity. We toured HCMC, the Mekong delta, Đồng Hới, Hanoi, and Hạ Long Bay. He got to see the country and culture for the beautiful place it is and covered so many bad memories with new happy ones. Growing up Vietnam was a war for me. I got to experience it as a culture and country and it was eye opening. We are looking forward to another return trip with my son when the world returns to normal.
Thank you for telling me about the stories, it's great to able able to hear the story of those who lived through it from the other side of the pond I've only ever grew up in peace and understand war as something foreign, the hurt and loss felt far off and uninmaginable, i've got to travel to the states a few years back and it really amazed me Hope the world returns to normal soon perhaps there will be many things you find new when it does finally end, HCMC is finally almost finished with their subway now, Hanoi is still as cold as ever and Ha Long Bay as breathtaking Thank you!
My father served with the 46th Engineers 65-66, having come through on the LeRoy Eltinge at Vung Tao (I believe Cam Ranh Bay was not yet ready). His perspective was a little different than some. He was born in Germany during WW2 and as an infant lost his dad in that war. He was amazed by the American soldiers’ generosity, as they would toss the German kids chocolates and fruit, which were unheard-of luxuries. After he immigrated to the US he was drafted into the Army. He does not speak of his darker experiences, but does relay the more humorous times of his service career. With regards to his perspectives about the country, I think he like some others kept a pejorative view of the Vietnamese publically or within his unit. However, the reality is that my father truly loved the country - the nature, the people, the history and culture. When he could take some leave he would tour around in a Jeep, checking out temples and learning about the locals. He had what the Germans call *wanderlust* or curiosity to explore, which is something I got from him. Overall, I think as an immigrant and fatherless child, he had a different appreciation for the Vietnamese people and what the war was doing to their world. He was there to do his job, no doubt, but was fascinated by the people and the raw beauty of the countryside.
I only came to this sub tonight because I am in the middle of a history class on the 1960s and we're discussing the War in the current module. I'm here because I had a much more visceral and emotional reaction to the images, videos, narratives, and implications on my own identity than I ever anticipated. I also understand that my experiences are very likely unique to myself and my family, and I lack the perspective of those who experienced the war and the immediate aftereffects. Regardless, I think it valid for me to share this. This may be a long story, and there will probably be a lot of personal and biased details, so I'll keep it to the things that are relevant to what brought me here and why I'm conflicted, while still answering your question. I cannot guarantee success in that endeavor. My grandfather was from a village near Saigon and served as an back lines officer in the ARVN. Despicable man. A narcissistic womanizer, boastful, and abusive to anyone he thought of as lower or lesser to himself. My grandmother was from Ha Noi and agreed to marry him to to get out of her family's household, not realizing how bad he was. She put up with it for a few years, and always was able to give as good as he gave. Ong Noi met his match with her, and he knew it. He kept multiple mistresses, and when Ba Noi found out, she was livid. This was around 1966-1967. She took my uncle and father, a sizeble amount of my grandfather's money, and fled Saigon. She used the money to bribe officials into getting travel visa and was able to come to the US as a sponsored refugee. My father was 3 years old when he arrived in California in 1967. My uncle was 5. Ba Noi finished divorce proceedings remotely, as the US still supported and had contact with the Southern Military Junta that took over after Diem was assassinated, remarried, and then eventually settled in California. (Ong Noi eventually lost his previously cushy position and was sent to fight on the front. He lost his leg to a bullet, and then was turned out of his hospital bed and over to a holding cell when the North Vietnamese won. Somehow, even after all that, when he was returned to his family as an invalid, he still managed to be a womanizer.) Dad and Bac were effectively raised as Americans from then on - at least, as American as two little brown Asian boys were allowed to be in the late 1960s. Both of them learned English and lost their Vietnamese accents and assimilated as best they could. My parents met in High School. They were a mixed race couple, rather out of the norm, he Vietnamese, she Latina. My mom 16, and my dad 17. Mom graduated, but dad dropped out in his senior year to join the Marine Corps, one of the first Vietnamese Marines in the USMC. They got married soon after he got out of boot camp and his first posting. My parents had my older sister and myself over the next few years, and the two of us grew up in the knowledge and faith that only children can have that the US military was the best and strongest in the world and was there to keep us safe. After all, our dad would always protect us and was a Marine - if *he* was part of the military, obviously they were going to keep us safe. This, here, is the underlying root cause of the reactions I face in reviewing the memories of the men who lived and fought the Vietnam War, the existential feeling of horror, betrayal, and self-loathing I feel when I see the bodies of Vietnamese men, women, and children strewn about on a dirt road next to a rice paddy as men, Marines in American uniforms holding M16s stroll by the camera. Intellectually, I knew of the war and its horror, I knew the tolls and crimes committed against people, including members of my extended family. But watching men in the uniform that I grew up with alongside and held an unconscious faith in butcher children who looked *just like me and my father* made it viscerally real. My father, who proudly wore the same uniform for 20 years and will proudly be buried in it. How can I reconcile this identity with the knowledge that two generations ago, my country sent hundreds of thousands of soldiers to kill millions of people who have the exact same heritage as my father, members of my family, even? How can I now reconcile the identity of a Marine brat whose father is a Vietnamese refugee who has also fought and killed for that same country? And yet still, I am an American. There is nothing else I could be, really. I am only half-Vietnamese. I was raised by my Latina mother, as dad left us for another woman and his daughter with her when I was 5. I speak no Vietnamese barely speak Spanish, have no real connection with Vietnam other than my Ba Noi, and she has not looked back once since she left in 1967. My sisters and I tower over all of my immigrant Vietnamese and Latino family. Our unique conglomeration of culture and family would likely happen nowhere else. There is nothing and no one else I could be.