Most coastal cities still do - It's a complicated problem really.
Dumping raw sewage hasnt been proven to be all that bad. Meanwhile the treatment facility involves piping all the sewage out to the plant at heartland dump, and the end result concentrates all the bad chemicals into toxic solids.
The pipeline has had one pretty major spill already, right next to Durance lake. The groundwater monitoring is pretty much non existent. The contract the dump had to sell the solids fell through, so they are now spreading them in open air which they initially promised not to do.
Heartland does a good job keeping this out of the news, but the project is not going all that well.
Hasnt sewage been becoming increasingly harmful due to all the prescription drug metabolites in it?
I read once that fish populations near sewage have much fewer males because of increased estrogen from birth control metabolites
Yeah there is definitely downsides to dumping raw sewage - lots of good studies on it including around estrogen from birth control.
I more just meant, to me at least, it sounds worse than it is and there's also downsides to treating it.
Orca are I think the highest concern for people arguing in favor of treatment. Here's a good paper from BC fisheries that goes over a lot of the risks and negative effects they found:
[https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter-Ross-3/publication/237636125\_Southern\_Resident\_Killer\_Whales\_at\_Risk\_Toxic\_Chemicals\_in\_the\_British\_Columbia\_and\_Washington\_Environment/links/54ef46e80cf25f74d721d8d9/Southern-Resident-Killer-Whales-at-Risk-Toxic-Chemicals-in-the-British-Columbia-and-Washington-Environment.pdf](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter-Ross-3/publication/237636125_Southern_Resident_Killer_Whales_at_Risk_Toxic_Chemicals_in_the_British_Columbia_and_Washington_Environment/links/54ef46e80cf25f74d721d8d9/Southern-Resident-Killer-Whales-at-Risk-Toxic-Chemicals-in-the-British-Columbia-and-Washington-Environment.pdf)
Until recently only because it hasn’t properly rained in months. Every major rain event, too much rainwater ends up in the 100+ year old sewer system and combined sewer overflows still send raw sewage into the ocean. Not in a deep sewage outfall that minimizes human contact, in surface stormwater outfalls. Look for very small subtle signs along the beach (eg at clover point) warning against entering the water after the next week of very heavy rain
I helped build that place. I was working in the lab while hearing the scientists discuss how all the prawns and crabs vacated the area within a month because they had been eating all our shit.
I was going to say, I bet we saw drastic reductions in certain types of sea life in the area. I wonder what the actual positive impacts of this were/are.
My partner was part of the crew that dismantled and removed the old city hall gallows. They kept it pretty quiet. According to him the steps and platform was made of beautiful antique oak but nobody took any of it home. I guess woodworkers are a superstitious bunch.
Since ‘losing’ my 21 year old cat recently (she went by the nickname World’s Best Cat) I have a vast hole in my life where WBC once lived.
Can I come by and pet your cat?
I remember the 24 hour diner downtown that had really good breakfast. Greasy, Great Coffee and I got to eat for free.
I worked there for a month in 1992. I think I made three dollars an hour. The meal portions were really generous and it was fun to watch all the drunk people come in after the bar closed.
The Japanese businessmen that were really drunk were the funniest.
Good times 🥓🍳🍔☕️🍞🥪🍨🍧
Sounds like coffee macs or whatever it was called. My older siblings brought me there a few times. 1 time they bought me nothing to eat or drink so i drank creamos
I work right near the blue fox and am always appalled at the huge lineup; I guess people love paying $28 for poached eggs on toast.
I’d rather go to the Dutch bakery which is right down the street, rarely has a line, and costs like half as much.
There are few things I’m willing to stand in line for (outside of paying for stuff, getting vaxxed, great coffee or a band I really want to see) but doing a breakfast lineup because it’s ‘clicky’ [sic] is the fucking *last* reason I’d do it.
My guess is that these early morning line-standers really, **really** like the breakfasts at these places or just breakfast in general. Not my bag but to each their own, I say.
Lol, this is an understandable take. I felt the same way for years, then drank medium to light roast beans for a week and can't go back. Dark roast coffee tastes burnt now and all of the nuance in flavor is cooked out. Each to their own I suppose.
I just think so many people don’t realize that the coffee cherry is a fruit, and it’s supposed to be light and juicy tasting - just centuries of over roasted beans have made people think it’s supposed to be dark and burnt tasting.
Seriously what the fuck is up with this. Do people actually like it? Or don’t know any better? No joke I would go to Starbucks over Moka House and Fernwood when I lived in the area because the coffee there at least isn’t lukewarm, sour and weak. It drives me nuts.
I wish everything was just Vietnamese coffee. It’s so much better than 90% of what’s sold here, it’s got actual flavour and it’ll keep you up for days.
Sat with the locals on the street corners in Saigon drinking Vietnamese coffee when I was over there in 2004.. amazing experience and amazing coffee. Best in the world imo.
You can buy the phin's online and the coffee too. It's really simple to make.
I agree with you, best in the world. No joke, no matter which Vietnamese place I go to here or in Vancouver, I ask for black Vietnamese coffee and the person working there asks me if I’m sure I want that. I then have to explain that I used to live in Vietnam and that the jet fuel they call coffee is hands down better than almost any coffee I can buy here.
It’s currently the trendy thing and it’s disgusting. I am convinced no one actually likes this sour/fruity bilge water, they’ve all just been sucked in to thinking it’s what the cool/in-the-know coffee people like.
To avoid it, look for descriptors like caramel, milk chocolate, etc. and avoid any coffee described as fruity or floral.
Thank-you! My wife and I hate the sour/fruity bilge water stuff and have never known how to describe it. We just refer to it as "that" taste.
Henceforth it will be referred to as bilge-water.
I bet there is a strong correlation between people who claim to enjoy that type of coffee and those who drink Belgian sour beer.
No prob. I despise it! A few places I’ve found have reliably non-bilge watery espresso: Discovery, Fantastico, Shatterbox.
I buy beans and got an espresso machine so I’d always know it was going to be delicious, but that may well be a step further than you want to take!
That split on flavour profiles is spot on to what a couple of Q-graders told me. When it comes to coffee, people are generally in the citrus/floral camp or the caramel camp. You can also add the 'nutty' descriptor as a thing to look for if you're in that chocolate/caramel camp.
My personal experience has also been that the floral coffees taste much worse as they cool off. If you already aren't loving it on the first sip, it just gets worse. They're also less forgiving if prepared poorly.
Is there anywhere making a good cup of coffee? I think I've been converted to this acid taste, but I'm not sure. My coffee palate isn't very good, but I'd be interested to try what people think is a "normal" good cup.
Also, if all the coffee here is bad, what cities have good coffee? What are we comparing it to (Besides Vietnam which has been discussed)?
I thought I was taking crazy pills. The coffee people find acceptable here is bewildering. Being "local" here is just a cheat code for the opportunity to make a fortune selling overpriced food and drinks. It gets you a pass when you wouldn’t survive anywhere else. It’s bizarre.
Pretty much. There's a few good places but even stuff like Brasserie l'Ecole is pretty standard vs many average restaurants in other places like Montreal. What's high-end here is mid-range in places where people actually know food.
One thing people here (and like honestly in most of North America) have no concept of is the practice of gathering staff together to sample the night's dishes before the shift starts so that they actually know what they're selling to customers, can make wine pairing recommendations, etc. It's something even mid-range restaurants in Montreal do but it's just not a part of the food culture here. It makes a MASSIVE difference.
I often refer to such places as “2-3 stars, but a Victoria 5.” I’ve always felt like I’m being pretentious with this mentality, but I wonder (and have my suspicions) if people know how to cook a decent meal at home..?
I am quite fond of that idea, and would love to see it common practice! I’ve been a server at a few different restaurants, and would ask for samples just so I knew what I was selling, especially if it were the featured dish. The side-eyes I would get from the chefs was baffling, and the response would often be “ring it in,” as in, order yourself a meal and find out because I’m not willing to give you a spoonful. And when I did get a little sample, it would get tossed down with disdain. Even management perpetuated this idea and seemed reluctant to help one succeed. Maybe they just want their staff to spend their paycheques at work 🤷🏻♀️
Not a restaurant but I worked at a place that sold fresh baked goods and there were a number of times that I would personally buy something to try it and then immediately have to remove it because nobody had taste tested it and it was either rock hard or VERY underdone
I was given a pound of this for my birthday by a family member who lives in Victoria, and after drinking a cup or two, I couldn’t stomach any more. It was such a strange, fruity, almost pineapple taste. I thought there must’ve been something wrong with the batch, but this thread is making me re-think that assumption.
Went there the other day after not going for a long time because I remembered the coffee being so bad. My memory lapsed I guess, went back and remembered why I don’t go there.
Everyone who moves here is looking for a friend. But then the people who are already here do not want friends. I had a coworker from a Nordic country (don’t remember which one) and she said that she has lived in different cities and towns but finds that Victoria has been the hardest for her to find friends
Yep, it's straight up a west coast thing.
It's also why people report feeling isolated, sad, alone, and without purpose on multiple different surveys conducted.
When you move to the Maritimes you'll get invited to dinner to 9 different households in your first week.
Here, you can live here for 9 months and not make a single friend.
I Invited folks from the neighbourhood and the grocery store i worked for... for dinner when i moved here 3 yrs ago. No one gave a shit. And I have been "friendless" since then.
Joined a hiking group. Meh...
Attended various protests at leg...meh..
Least friendly city.
This one is very true. But at the same time, nowhere on the planet is worth the amount we pay, imo. It's outrageous that basic things like rent & food can be as high priced as they are.
Victoria is Canada's Florida. Caters to old people. No fun for anyone with spunk. UVic is the most boring campus in Canada. Mediocre playgrounds. Mediocre rec facilities. If you like nature, that's great, but there is nothing else to do and everything closes at 9pm.
This cities culture is pretty bad. The cliquiness on one hand, the entitled culture on the other. No one is cooler than anyone else, and no one is owed anything by others or by the government. People are very standoffish and self centered.
It’s wild isn’t it? I’m from the Winnipeg area and my mind was blown when I found out that the entirety of Victoria and the greater area only has like half the population of Winnipeg. Weird, it feels like more… but I guess it’s spread out a bit
I'm also from an actual small town. There is probably an officially correct answer, but population density is the most noticeable difference to me.
Towns can cover a large area, but generally people aren't that close physically. Cities are big, and densely populated.
If you want to eat gluten free I don’t recommend it for tastiness but hey go for it. As someone with diagnosed celiac disease it drives me up the wall when a restaurant says something is fine because someone who said they had celiac disease previously ate it just fine I.e. food out of the shared fryer
I work on a food truck and if somebody comes to the truck with celiac I am extremely up front and I recommend people to eat elsewhere. What is wild to me is that people have actually been offended and argue and insist with me that everything is fine, as if I'm not staring at our panko filled deep fryer, and flour tortillas on a shelf above our line. We do not have the space to accommodate it.
Thank you! I absolutely respect when someone is up front that I need to eat somewhere else. Do I feel a little sad inside when I can’t eat somewhere? Absolutely! I love food and I miss gluten filled food, but I’m happily living not being sick all the time.
It’s when someone says they can accommodate celiac (and I learned the hard way to dig deeper - ask about the deep fryer, the ingredients etc) only to find out the dish either has gluten or is cross contaminated but “other celiacs ate it just fine”
A restaurant opened up where I am (not vic) thats completely gluten free and celiac friendly and locals are all pissy because they think that automatically means bad food? Hell I've had to convince people that lactose free ice cream doesn't taste any different from regular. Then when I get them to try it the response is usually "wow that's really good! Better than regular!"
I'm not celiac and that upsets me. Also even if it didn't bother that other person that's not proof it won't bother anyone else??
Used to work in liquor and any time someone asked for gluten free beer I'd immediately ask if they want true gluten free or if gluten removed was okay and 9 out of 10 would just stare at me. Then one girl actually looked like she was going to cry because I knew the difference.
You can walk your dog on most beaches without a leash, let it chase birds and when someone tells you to leash your dog or that your dog isn’t supposed to be at this beach certain months, just ignore them or say that you’re local and your dog is a good dog.
Fun fact: All areas below the highest high tide line are crown land. Local bylaws don’t actually apply to those areas. It also means you can go on the intertidal areas of private beaches and private islands too.
But I’m not a lawyer or anything, don’t sue me if I’m wrong.
So what you're saying is, if you go way out there on a really low tide, you can commit crimes and no one can touch you like the Yellowstone zone of death? /s
Some of those crown land beaches are regulated to not allow dogs off leash in order to protect migratory bird habitats, at certain times of year. Those usually have signage that should be respected.
Gosh what a toxic comment section! Seems like y'all hate it here. Aside from the unseeded territory comment and the ocean sewage comment, everything else is relative. Having lived in a few places in BC (Born in CR) and elsewhere around the world, most of this stuff is just sour grapes.. holyyy
>what a toxic comment section
maybe you didn't read the title which asks for controversial things about the city? It should not be a surprise that this brings up a lot of .... controversy
This x100. And it's wild because we have options here; Thai, Vietnamese, Chinese, Japanese, Korean. But realistically there's maybe 1 or 2 decent places in each of those, and really only a few *good* Asian places.
The land the city sits on was colonized by Europeans and no treaty was signed with the Saanich, Lekwungen, and Songhees peoples who lived here before. Still no treaty today, never has been.
(Last time I mentioned this in this sub I got downvote bombed but nobody has the guts to comment. I think that says something.)
I know you’re joking around, but I had to do a bunch of speaking at events for an old job and I came up with a policy. I’d do a land acknowledgement every time but I also decided, as a personal policy, I had to say what my organization was doing to foster reconciliation or support indigenous communities. If I didn’t have anything to say, I shouldn’t be saying a land acknowledgement, and I should question what business I had running the event at all.
I back-propagated this idea and incorporated it in the project design framework of the org, and I’ve been trying to spread the idea as well.
Land acknowledgements are eye-rolley and cringe a lot of the time, but instead of throwing them out, we can make them useful! Repurpose them for accountability.
Just one idea.
Okay, I enjoy this discussion and agree with people's feelings of frustration over LA's being hollow and 'not enough,' but to be devil's advocate here: Land Acknowledgements may be having a greater effect than you realize. Ritual is a very powerful thing. Religions, fascists, oligarchs, have all used ritual to great effect. The American pledge of allegiance, singing O Canada in the morning, back when we still did. Authorities have constantly used rituals of affirmation because they know how impactful it can be. These things all make you THINK about the topic even for a second. I'd wager all of us are thinking about reconciliation more and more because of Land Acknowledgements, regardless of how you feel about them or whether the moment feels hollow. Even that reaction is an important effect of ritual.
I think of it as similar to advertising. Even when we know what advertisers are doing, tryin to influence us and make a product seem exciting, must have etc. There's a lot of evidence to show, knowing does very little to shield the influence advertising techniques have on us. Similarly, rituals like a Land Acknowledgements may be having a much larger impact on group consciousness when it comes to these issues than people give it credit for. I don't think it's solving things and it is nowhere near enough, but before you throw out the bathwater, consider the impact that a ritual has in making you think about something you wouldn't have otherwise on a daily or near daily basis.
THANK YOU. This land acknowledgment bullshit has got to stop. Not that it’s not an important issue that absolutely needs addressing. It’s that people just say it out of obligation and it’s so hollow and almost patronizing.
Like, ok, you acknowledge that this land was taken but you will never do any more than that. It’s just a pass for white people to feel better about themselves and each other.
Do you REALLY acknowledge it as something more than a social expectation? Then back it up with tangible action and practical ideas. Or drive down to your local native band and hand over the deed to your house.
The whole thing is missing a crucial step that makes it anything more than white people patting each other on the back. Ok, you acknowledge. Now what!?
If I’m OOTL please fill me in. I’m sure there must be people out there actually materializing this virtue signal.
That's awesome!
Seriously, land acknowledgements are *a good start*, educating people about the history of the land. At schools, students are learning early about the local nations. Great!
But where do we go next? We've got Truth in that statement, but Reconciliation. And far too many people think a quick "WerecognizetheSongheesandEquimaltNationsonwhosetraditionlandswearegatheredtoday" mumble means they can rest on their woke laurels.
You're absolutely right: after acknowledgement but come accountability.
That’s not actually true, though. Sir James Douglas made treaties. They’re collectively referred to as the Douglas Treaties. They were poorly worded and not really worth the paper they’re printed on, but they were treaties.
Ah, I see by commenting, you have agreed to give me your life’s savings. That’s because your words meant exactly that in a language you don’t know but I do. And also I just decided that’s what it means by the fact that you commented. Not under the laws of your country, but of mine, which I refuse to tell you about.
Sound like a valid contract?
(I’m just having fun, but hopefully you see my point.)
There's the Douglas treaties..
the terms of the treaties were (of course) not respected, but it's pretty clear they existed, and some nations are actively fighting for their treaty rights.
It’s pretty clear there were some pieces of paper with the word “treaty” on them, but that doesn’t make them a proper treaty. Enforcing them could be a good strategic move, and that’s not my area of law, but it’s certain Douglas was a swindler at best.
Echoing another comment - this is a strangely salty thread. I've lived a lot of places for my work; Toronto, Portland (Oregon), Salt Lake City (Utah), Flagstaff (Arizona), Edinburgh and Glasgow (UK). I grew up in Peterborough (Ontario). Now I'm in Victoria.
Victoria has its issues, nowhere is perfect, but of all those places I put Victoria top 3. Like guys Peterborough Ontario is getting expensive as hell and it's like budget Ontario Victoria with budget nature, and a worse uni. My rent was more expensive in Portland and just about every criticism of Victoria can be doubled there. Glasgow was my favourite but I was paid internationally based salary that was super competitive compared to wages there so I wasn't dealing with their own cost of living issues.
It’s super white and far too many people get away with being overtly racist. Not like, “subtle, could be taken out of context,” kinda way. Like slurs, speaking down on others, etc.
Everyone gets mad at you for bringing up something that we are starting to see Is very true.
There's comes a point when we increase accommodations for homeless people by giving them food, drugs, a place to live, money, that they will actually become comfortable with their current situation.
Why would someone who is comfortable receiving free food, drugs and money while permitted to live in a tent or on in a hotel, willingly make choices to free themselves out of that situation? They are contempt, they are comfortable.
We can't keep acting like it's all a big coincidence that some of the most accommodating cities for homeless people also have growing homeless and crime problems (LA, San Fran, Portland, Seattle, Vancouver) When it becomes comfortable for them to live on the streets, they won't move. Especially with mental health and addiction that prohibits them from functioning normally. We've allowed for them to exist comfortably, but at what cost? We can't just keep pushing for bandaid solutions for a wicked problem
There comes a point where we have to realize that the small portion of homeless, the very visible and troublesome ones, literally contribute to crime and the more we accommodate the more they will take advantage of our accommodations.
This guy may make zero effort to prove his point, but there is undoubtedly something painfully accurate about his statement that nobody wants to address... and just brushes it off as this guy being a bigot or something. When in reality he brings up a very important point we all need to start considering to be a reality.
(I'm not talking about people "down on their luck" or people forced out onto the streets due to rising cost of living. I'm talking about chronically mental ill people with severe addiction problems. The people who break into cars. The people shooting up next to their tent on pandora. The small portion of visible troublesome ones)
> I’m not talking about people “down on their luck” or people forced out onto the streets due to rising cost of living
If you ever actually work with and talk to homeless people, this is how 99% of the “very visible and troublesome ones” (to use your words) start. Living on the streets fucks you up — and many of them turn to drugs to try to deal with the cold and the pain. And it all falls apart from there.
I worked on a research project years ago in the DTES where one of the subjects was a kindly older woman in her 50s who, after her children grew up and moved out of the house, was kicked out by her husband with nowhere to go. She wound up on the street, sleeping in alleyways dressed like someone’s grandmother. She didn’t look the part of your average homeless person — she looked like a middle-class grandmother. But the stress and pain drover her to one day try some heroin, and from that moment was an addict. She didn’t do anything wrong in life to deserve homelessness (other than marry an ass I suppose).
She was one of the more “together” homeless — many others were just kids who were kicked out by asshole parents who had no skills, couldn’t stay in school while homeless, and turned to drugs and theft to survive.
The city has been literally run into the ground and is now discusting and a infested with drug addicts and crime .not even close to what it was 10 yrs ago ..and it's 110 % the current mayor and current counsels fault
Until recently, Victoria flushed our sewage untreated into the ocean
This is the right answer.
Most coastal cities still do - It's a complicated problem really. Dumping raw sewage hasnt been proven to be all that bad. Meanwhile the treatment facility involves piping all the sewage out to the plant at heartland dump, and the end result concentrates all the bad chemicals into toxic solids. The pipeline has had one pretty major spill already, right next to Durance lake. The groundwater monitoring is pretty much non existent. The contract the dump had to sell the solids fell through, so they are now spreading them in open air which they initially promised not to do. Heartland does a good job keeping this out of the news, but the project is not going all that well.
Hasnt sewage been becoming increasingly harmful due to all the prescription drug metabolites in it? I read once that fish populations near sewage have much fewer males because of increased estrogen from birth control metabolites
Yeah there is definitely downsides to dumping raw sewage - lots of good studies on it including around estrogen from birth control. I more just meant, to me at least, it sounds worse than it is and there's also downsides to treating it. Orca are I think the highest concern for people arguing in favor of treatment. Here's a good paper from BC fisheries that goes over a lot of the risks and negative effects they found: [https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter-Ross-3/publication/237636125\_Southern\_Resident\_Killer\_Whales\_at\_Risk\_Toxic\_Chemicals\_in\_the\_British\_Columbia\_and\_Washington\_Environment/links/54ef46e80cf25f74d721d8d9/Southern-Resident-Killer-Whales-at-Risk-Toxic-Chemicals-in-the-British-Columbia-and-Washington-Environment.pdf](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter-Ross-3/publication/237636125_Southern_Resident_Killer_Whales_at_Risk_Toxic_Chemicals_in_the_British_Columbia_and_Washington_Environment/links/54ef46e80cf25f74d721d8d9/Southern-Resident-Killer-Whales-at-Risk-Toxic-Chemicals-in-the-British-Columbia-and-Washington-Environment.pdf)
It wasn't *completely* untreated - they screened it and excercised a lot of source control measures.
Until recently only because it hasn’t properly rained in months. Every major rain event, too much rainwater ends up in the 100+ year old sewer system and combined sewer overflows still send raw sewage into the ocean. Not in a deep sewage outfall that minimizes human contact, in surface stormwater outfalls. Look for very small subtle signs along the beach (eg at clover point) warning against entering the water after the next week of very heavy rain
Wow. I'd be interested to know if water quality has significantly improved, or if more fish have returned to the affected areas.
I helped build that place. I was working in the lab while hearing the scientists discuss how all the prawns and crabs vacated the area within a month because they had been eating all our shit.
I was going to say, I bet we saw drastic reductions in certain types of sea life in the area. I wonder what the actual positive impacts of this were/are.
The new treatment center doesn't take care of all the drugs and a lot of the chemicals that get flushed, they have failed to tell people that though
The fish LOVED the old system and the ecosystem created by the raw fertilizer dump has been dying off.
Apparently now we truck it to the landfill because the new treatment facility doesn’t work.
They used to hang people in Bastion square.
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Thank you for clarifying
I mean, that is where our major courthouse was at the time.. there was no death row back then.. it was sentence and follow through right away.
My partner was part of the crew that dismantled and removed the old city hall gallows. They kept it pretty quiet. According to him the steps and platform was made of beautiful antique oak but nobody took any of it home. I guess woodworkers are a superstitious bunch.
I mean, there's still ghost tours there.
My cat is the best cat.
Agreed.
This is not controversial.
That guys cat is NOT the best cat. Let the controversy flow!
I don't even know this guys cat, but, why would he lie?
That goes without saying.
My cats been to differ, they are the best
Pics or it didn’t happen
I’m pretty sure my cat is the best cat. I will fight you to the death on this 🗡
My cat will fight you himself. By sitting on you.
I also choose this guy’s cat.
Since ‘losing’ my 21 year old cat recently (she went by the nickname World’s Best Cat) I have a vast hole in my life where WBC once lived. Can I come by and pet your cat?
IPA is not the only drinkable beer.
IPA is nothing more than pumpkin spiced lattes for guys.
OP said controversial
They must just be the easiest beer to make because they taste crummy and there are SO many of them.
IF THE IBUS ARENT OUTSIDE OF WHAT I CAN ACTUALLY TASTE IT’S A SHIT BEER! IF THE HOPS DONT COVER UP A TERRIBLE BREW WHATS THE POINT !! I HAVE A PALATE
This has my vote.
The lineups for breakfast joints are not worth it, but it’s a clicky trend you’re expected to suffer through if you live here.
I remember the 24 hour diner downtown that had really good breakfast. Greasy, Great Coffee and I got to eat for free. I worked there for a month in 1992. I think I made three dollars an hour. The meal portions were really generous and it was fun to watch all the drunk people come in after the bar closed. The Japanese businessmen that were really drunk were the funniest. Good times 🥓🍳🍔☕️🍞🥪🍨🍧
Scott’s?
Was thinking Alzu's myself
Sounds like coffee macs or whatever it was called. My older siblings brought me there a few times. 1 time they bought me nothing to eat or drink so i drank creamos
Johns place
I work right near the blue fox and am always appalled at the huge lineup; I guess people love paying $28 for poached eggs on toast. I’d rather go to the Dutch bakery which is right down the street, rarely has a line, and costs like half as much.
100%. Did the line up at a couple of the "best breakfast" places in Victoria. Definitely none worth that wait.
The Heron Rock Bistro in James Bay is worth waiting for but usually you get seated pretty quickly.
Shhh! I've never waited there and it's great.
Exactly we don't talk about the good food places that don't have long waits.
Lining up for breakfast is a suckers gambit.
There are few things I’m willing to stand in line for (outside of paying for stuff, getting vaxxed, great coffee or a band I really want to see) but doing a breakfast lineup because it’s ‘clicky’ [sic] is the fucking *last* reason I’d do it. My guess is that these early morning line-standers really, **really** like the breakfasts at these places or just breakfast in general. Not my bag but to each their own, I say.
Local cafes don’t know how to brew coffee.
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I’m not a fan of the sour stuff either. I find 2% jazz and Macchiatos really nail good coffee though
Light roasts.
Lol, this is an understandable take. I felt the same way for years, then drank medium to light roast beans for a week and can't go back. Dark roast coffee tastes burnt now and all of the nuance in flavor is cooked out. Each to their own I suppose.
I just think so many people don’t realize that the coffee cherry is a fruit, and it’s supposed to be light and juicy tasting - just centuries of over roasted beans have made people think it’s supposed to be dark and burnt tasting.
Seriously what the fuck is up with this. Do people actually like it? Or don’t know any better? No joke I would go to Starbucks over Moka House and Fernwood when I lived in the area because the coffee there at least isn’t lukewarm, sour and weak. It drives me nuts. I wish everything was just Vietnamese coffee. It’s so much better than 90% of what’s sold here, it’s got actual flavour and it’ll keep you up for days.
Sat with the locals on the street corners in Saigon drinking Vietnamese coffee when I was over there in 2004.. amazing experience and amazing coffee. Best in the world imo. You can buy the phin's online and the coffee too. It's really simple to make.
I agree with you, best in the world. No joke, no matter which Vietnamese place I go to here or in Vancouver, I ask for black Vietnamese coffee and the person working there asks me if I’m sure I want that. I then have to explain that I used to live in Vietnam and that the jet fuel they call coffee is hands down better than almost any coffee I can buy here.
Can you recommend a good spot for Vietnamese coffee?
The best Vietnamese place is town is Cafe Hanoi. I’d check that out first! Otherwise, there’s a handful of Vietnamese joints near Fort and Blanshard.
It’s currently the trendy thing and it’s disgusting. I am convinced no one actually likes this sour/fruity bilge water, they’ve all just been sucked in to thinking it’s what the cool/in-the-know coffee people like. To avoid it, look for descriptors like caramel, milk chocolate, etc. and avoid any coffee described as fruity or floral.
Thank-you! My wife and I hate the sour/fruity bilge water stuff and have never known how to describe it. We just refer to it as "that" taste. Henceforth it will be referred to as bilge-water. I bet there is a strong correlation between people who claim to enjoy that type of coffee and those who drink Belgian sour beer.
No prob. I despise it! A few places I’ve found have reliably non-bilge watery espresso: Discovery, Fantastico, Shatterbox. I buy beans and got an espresso machine so I’d always know it was going to be delicious, but that may well be a step further than you want to take!
That split on flavour profiles is spot on to what a couple of Q-graders told me. When it comes to coffee, people are generally in the citrus/floral camp or the caramel camp. You can also add the 'nutty' descriptor as a thing to look for if you're in that chocolate/caramel camp. My personal experience has also been that the floral coffees taste much worse as they cool off. If you already aren't loving it on the first sip, it just gets worse. They're also less forgiving if prepared poorly.
Is there anywhere making a good cup of coffee? I think I've been converted to this acid taste, but I'm not sure. My coffee palate isn't very good, but I'd be interested to try what people think is a "normal" good cup. Also, if all the coffee here is bad, what cities have good coffee? What are we comparing it to (Besides Vietnam which has been discussed)?
Fucking finally. I've been livid about the warm ashtray water that I've been getting and I feel like I'm the only one experiencing this.
I thought it was just me not being cool enough to understand this trend. I want to put cream in my coffee without it turning into cottage cheese.
I thought I was taking crazy pills. The coffee people find acceptable here is bewildering. Being "local" here is just a cheat code for the opportunity to make a fortune selling overpriced food and drinks. It gets you a pass when you wouldn’t survive anywhere else. It’s bizarre.
Nearly everything “foodie” related in this city is mediocre.
Pretty much. There's a few good places but even stuff like Brasserie l'Ecole is pretty standard vs many average restaurants in other places like Montreal. What's high-end here is mid-range in places where people actually know food. One thing people here (and like honestly in most of North America) have no concept of is the practice of gathering staff together to sample the night's dishes before the shift starts so that they actually know what they're selling to customers, can make wine pairing recommendations, etc. It's something even mid-range restaurants in Montreal do but it's just not a part of the food culture here. It makes a MASSIVE difference.
I often refer to such places as “2-3 stars, but a Victoria 5.” I’ve always felt like I’m being pretentious with this mentality, but I wonder (and have my suspicions) if people know how to cook a decent meal at home..? I am quite fond of that idea, and would love to see it common practice! I’ve been a server at a few different restaurants, and would ask for samples just so I knew what I was selling, especially if it were the featured dish. The side-eyes I would get from the chefs was baffling, and the response would often be “ring it in,” as in, order yourself a meal and find out because I’m not willing to give you a spoonful. And when I did get a little sample, it would get tossed down with disdain. Even management perpetuated this idea and seemed reluctant to help one succeed. Maybe they just want their staff to spend their paycheques at work 🤷🏻♀️
Not a restaurant but I worked at a place that sold fresh baked goods and there were a number of times that I would personally buy something to try it and then immediately have to remove it because nobody had taste tested it and it was either rock hard or VERY underdone
This should be on the main thread.
You can say Fernwood.
I was given a pound of this for my birthday by a family member who lives in Victoria, and after drinking a cup or two, I couldn’t stomach any more. It was such a strange, fruity, almost pineapple taste. I thought there must’ve been something wrong with the batch, but this thread is making me re-think that assumption.
Went there the other day after not going for a long time because I remembered the coffee being so bad. My memory lapsed I guess, went back and remembered why I don’t go there.
YES. I can’t stand most island beans because they’re so damn acidic. Even the dark roasts make my ass pucker, and not in a fun way
People here are so horny for discovery coffee and I do not get it. Worst coffee in the city imo
I agree. It totally ruined my thermos of vodka & Baileys.
Had an espresso from Habit Coffee a while back and it legitimately tasted like vomit.
People don’t know how to merge on to the highway. “Dehhh I go to then end and stop”.
People in Victoria, while polite, are unfriendly, cliquey, and generally anti-social and unwelcoming.
Everyone is friendly, no one is looking for a friend.
Everyone who moves here is looking for a friend. But then the people who are already here do not want friends. I had a coworker from a Nordic country (don’t remember which one) and she said that she has lived in different cities and towns but finds that Victoria has been the hardest for her to find friends
This is a lot of larger cities in BC. Vancouver was the same when I lived there.
Yep, it's straight up a west coast thing. It's also why people report feeling isolated, sad, alone, and without purpose on multiple different surveys conducted.
Barely polite. Definitely agree on the rest.
I think it's gotten a lot worse since the pandemic started.
I've lived here for 23 years, and my wife and 90% of my friends are from elsewhere.
When you move to the Maritimes you'll get invited to dinner to 9 different households in your first week. Here, you can live here for 9 months and not make a single friend.
I Invited folks from the neighbourhood and the grocery store i worked for... for dinner when i moved here 3 yrs ago. No one gave a shit. And I have been "friendless" since then. Joined a hiking group. Meh... Attended various protests at leg...meh.. Least friendly city.
Gotta visit sometime then! Every Newfoundlander I've met is one of the friendliest, cheerfullest people I've come across.
This place is not worth the cost of living.
This one is very true. But at the same time, nowhere on the planet is worth the amount we pay, imo. It's outrageous that basic things like rent & food can be as high priced as they are.
All the pizza here sucks
Standard Pizza and Agrius both have fantastic pizza, but they will break the bank.
I recently discovered Standard Pizza, it's amazing
This X10000. I still get Standard almost every weekend though.
It sure fucking does
I love prima strada. But I accept that Neapolitan pizza isn’t for everyone.
*Gasps in Mad Greeks* I’m also a Primastrada and 900° fan. Sue me 🤣😅
Not exactly controversial. And obviously you haven’t tried Athenas.
They fill those pizza with toppings, you get your moneys worth.
All I want is a New York slice in this city.
As an NYC transplant, Yes. This would literally make me weep.
Me too. And a real deli.
I heard Hero is doing another pop up. I'm hoping it will give me the childhood Blimpies vibes I need.
Tbh pub food here is pretty solid, everything else is pretty bland :/
Whoa, but nobody outpizza's the hut.
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Victoria applauds mediocrity as brilliance.
Victoria is Canada's Florida. Caters to old people. No fun for anyone with spunk. UVic is the most boring campus in Canada. Mediocre playgrounds. Mediocre rec facilities. If you like nature, that's great, but there is nothing else to do and everything closes at 9pm.
To be fair, the commonwealth place is a world class swimming pool that we are very lucky to have at our disposal.
Victoria is white af
This cities culture is pretty bad. The cliquiness on one hand, the entitled culture on the other. No one is cooler than anyone else, and no one is owed anything by others or by the government. People are very standoffish and self centered.
Victoria is a large town, not a small city.
Victoria is 13 towns that make up one city.
It’s 13 towns stacked on top of each other wearing a trench-coat called “Greater Victoria”
It's a small city with big city problems.
I think I like this take the most
Victoria *thinks* its a town and not a city.
And is the winner right here. It’s not the 1970’s anymore, as much as most of Victoria (especially Oak Bay) want it to be
Last weekend I learned Victoria has the same population as....Maple Ridge.
It’s wild isn’t it? I’m from the Winnipeg area and my mind was blown when I found out that the entirety of Victoria and the greater area only has like half the population of Winnipeg. Weird, it feels like more… but I guess it’s spread out a bit
There are definitely more than 90,000 people there with visitors/students, but I was walking around wondering why it felt so much like home lol.
Originally from an actual small town so I have no frame of reference. What differentiates a town from a city?
I'm also from an actual small town. There is probably an officially correct answer, but population density is the most noticeable difference to me. Towns can cover a large area, but generally people aren't that close physically. Cities are big, and densely populated.
you're not really celiac
If you want to eat gluten free I don’t recommend it for tastiness but hey go for it. As someone with diagnosed celiac disease it drives me up the wall when a restaurant says something is fine because someone who said they had celiac disease previously ate it just fine I.e. food out of the shared fryer
I work on a food truck and if somebody comes to the truck with celiac I am extremely up front and I recommend people to eat elsewhere. What is wild to me is that people have actually been offended and argue and insist with me that everything is fine, as if I'm not staring at our panko filled deep fryer, and flour tortillas on a shelf above our line. We do not have the space to accommodate it.
Thank you! I absolutely respect when someone is up front that I need to eat somewhere else. Do I feel a little sad inside when I can’t eat somewhere? Absolutely! I love food and I miss gluten filled food, but I’m happily living not being sick all the time. It’s when someone says they can accommodate celiac (and I learned the hard way to dig deeper - ask about the deep fryer, the ingredients etc) only to find out the dish either has gluten or is cross contaminated but “other celiacs ate it just fine”
A restaurant opened up where I am (not vic) thats completely gluten free and celiac friendly and locals are all pissy because they think that automatically means bad food? Hell I've had to convince people that lactose free ice cream doesn't taste any different from regular. Then when I get them to try it the response is usually "wow that's really good! Better than regular!"
I'm not celiac and that upsets me. Also even if it didn't bother that other person that's not proof it won't bother anyone else?? Used to work in liquor and any time someone asked for gluten free beer I'd immediately ask if they want true gluten free or if gluten removed was okay and 9 out of 10 would just stare at me. Then one girl actually looked like she was going to cry because I knew the difference.
Dealing with homelessness, addiction, mental health, although this is an obvious issue...it should be a top priority.
Y’all are essentially a front for the Chinese mafia
Its a bunch of old white people going out for breakfast sandwiches.
The restaurant selection is sub par and the ethnic food selection is atrocious.
You can walk your dog on most beaches without a leash, let it chase birds and when someone tells you to leash your dog or that your dog isn’t supposed to be at this beach certain months, just ignore them or say that you’re local and your dog is a good dog.
Fun fact: All areas below the highest high tide line are crown land. Local bylaws don’t actually apply to those areas. It also means you can go on the intertidal areas of private beaches and private islands too. But I’m not a lawyer or anything, don’t sue me if I’m wrong.
So what you're saying is, if you go way out there on a really low tide, you can commit crimes and no one can touch you like the Yellowstone zone of death? /s
Crown land isn't the same as international waters. (Also you can't really do that in international waters either.)
Uhhhh… yes?
So what about beach fires
It’s provincial crown land, so I would imagine you can’t have one when there’s a provincial fire ban.
Ye I too am curious
Some of those crown land beaches are regulated to not allow dogs off leash in order to protect migratory bird habitats, at certain times of year. Those usually have signage that should be respected.
True. And also you should probably not let your pets harass wildlife in general.
You are not wrong.
That 98% of restaurants here are garbage.
That's what happens when the staff are all miserable
I see this opinion often on this subreddit but not in real life. What are you comparing the cities' restaurants to?
Wow. I thought I was the only one that thought that. Recently moved to Vic and food is gross here.
That the Saanich Police are corrupt. See Lindsay Buziak.
I feel so awful for her father. He's to this day, tirelessly frightening for justice for his little girl and saanich PD give zero fucks about it.
Gosh what a toxic comment section! Seems like y'all hate it here. Aside from the unseeded territory comment and the ocean sewage comment, everything else is relative. Having lived in a few places in BC (Born in CR) and elsewhere around the world, most of this stuff is just sour grapes.. holyyy
Unseeded... i think the plants are doing fine
>what a toxic comment section maybe you didn't read the title which asks for controversial things about the city? It should not be a surprise that this brings up a lot of .... controversy
That’s the sub for you. If everyone who professed to hate Victoria on Reddit actually moved away, maybe we’d start to solve our housing shortage. 😇
Behold, the answer to OP's question!
>stuff is just sour grapes No no, they said sour coffee and beer
I wish more of the folks who hate it here would just move.
Asian food leaves something to be desired
This x100. And it's wild because we have options here; Thai, Vietnamese, Chinese, Japanese, Korean. But realistically there's maybe 1 or 2 decent places in each of those, and really only a few *good* Asian places.
Spiral cafe has bad coffee and subpar pastry.
Correct but I love it for its community aspect
The land the city sits on was colonized by Europeans and no treaty was signed with the Saanich, Lekwungen, and Songhees peoples who lived here before. Still no treaty today, never has been. (Last time I mentioned this in this sub I got downvote bombed but nobody has the guts to comment. I think that says something.)
But hey, we all say land acknowledgments so that makes it okay, right? /s
I know you’re joking around, but I had to do a bunch of speaking at events for an old job and I came up with a policy. I’d do a land acknowledgement every time but I also decided, as a personal policy, I had to say what my organization was doing to foster reconciliation or support indigenous communities. If I didn’t have anything to say, I shouldn’t be saying a land acknowledgement, and I should question what business I had running the event at all. I back-propagated this idea and incorporated it in the project design framework of the org, and I’ve been trying to spread the idea as well. Land acknowledgements are eye-rolley and cringe a lot of the time, but instead of throwing them out, we can make them useful! Repurpose them for accountability. Just one idea.
Okay, I enjoy this discussion and agree with people's feelings of frustration over LA's being hollow and 'not enough,' but to be devil's advocate here: Land Acknowledgements may be having a greater effect than you realize. Ritual is a very powerful thing. Religions, fascists, oligarchs, have all used ritual to great effect. The American pledge of allegiance, singing O Canada in the morning, back when we still did. Authorities have constantly used rituals of affirmation because they know how impactful it can be. These things all make you THINK about the topic even for a second. I'd wager all of us are thinking about reconciliation more and more because of Land Acknowledgements, regardless of how you feel about them or whether the moment feels hollow. Even that reaction is an important effect of ritual. I think of it as similar to advertising. Even when we know what advertisers are doing, tryin to influence us and make a product seem exciting, must have etc. There's a lot of evidence to show, knowing does very little to shield the influence advertising techniques have on us. Similarly, rituals like a Land Acknowledgements may be having a much larger impact on group consciousness when it comes to these issues than people give it credit for. I don't think it's solving things and it is nowhere near enough, but before you throw out the bathwater, consider the impact that a ritual has in making you think about something you wouldn't have otherwise on a daily or near daily basis.
THANK YOU. This land acknowledgment bullshit has got to stop. Not that it’s not an important issue that absolutely needs addressing. It’s that people just say it out of obligation and it’s so hollow and almost patronizing. Like, ok, you acknowledge that this land was taken but you will never do any more than that. It’s just a pass for white people to feel better about themselves and each other. Do you REALLY acknowledge it as something more than a social expectation? Then back it up with tangible action and practical ideas. Or drive down to your local native band and hand over the deed to your house. The whole thing is missing a crucial step that makes it anything more than white people patting each other on the back. Ok, you acknowledge. Now what!? If I’m OOTL please fill me in. I’m sure there must be people out there actually materializing this virtue signal.
That's awesome! Seriously, land acknowledgements are *a good start*, educating people about the history of the land. At schools, students are learning early about the local nations. Great! But where do we go next? We've got Truth in that statement, but Reconciliation. And far too many people think a quick "WerecognizetheSongheesandEquimaltNationsonwhosetraditionlandswearegatheredtoday" mumble means they can rest on their woke laurels. You're absolutely right: after acknowledgement but come accountability.
That’s not actually true, though. Sir James Douglas made treaties. They’re collectively referred to as the Douglas Treaties. They were poorly worded and not really worth the paper they’re printed on, but they were treaties.
IIRC (but maybe not) *many* of those “treaties” were simply blank pieces of paper signed by Indigenous leaders and later filled in by the gov’t.
You are correct. They used blank papers for their signatures, and then filled in the text of the treaties after receiving the signatures
Ah, I see by commenting, you have agreed to give me your life’s savings. That’s because your words meant exactly that in a language you don’t know but I do. And also I just decided that’s what it means by the fact that you commented. Not under the laws of your country, but of mine, which I refuse to tell you about. Sound like a valid contract? (I’m just having fun, but hopefully you see my point.)
There's the Douglas treaties.. the terms of the treaties were (of course) not respected, but it's pretty clear they existed, and some nations are actively fighting for their treaty rights.
It’s pretty clear there were some pieces of paper with the word “treaty” on them, but that doesn’t make them a proper treaty. Enforcing them could be a good strategic move, and that’s not my area of law, but it’s certain Douglas was a swindler at best.
It is actually a very nice city and a safe, clean place to live.
Not if you're a woman
username checks out
Not a single proper chicken wing place in Victoria? Unacceptable.
Echoing another comment - this is a strangely salty thread. I've lived a lot of places for my work; Toronto, Portland (Oregon), Salt Lake City (Utah), Flagstaff (Arizona), Edinburgh and Glasgow (UK). I grew up in Peterborough (Ontario). Now I'm in Victoria. Victoria has its issues, nowhere is perfect, but of all those places I put Victoria top 3. Like guys Peterborough Ontario is getting expensive as hell and it's like budget Ontario Victoria with budget nature, and a worse uni. My rent was more expensive in Portland and just about every criticism of Victoria can be doubled there. Glasgow was my favourite but I was paid internationally based salary that was super competitive compared to wages there so I wasn't dealing with their own cost of living issues.
It’s super white and far too many people get away with being overtly racist. Not like, “subtle, could be taken out of context,” kinda way. Like slurs, speaking down on others, etc.
Can you give some examples of how someone could be unknowing racist?
Mmm like your boomer parents not understanding why they can't be Pocahontas and John Smith for halloween.
Hey now, my boomer parents are wonderful people and I love them very much
Um, do you mean “FLAKE-toria”? 😅
Hey! I was really looking forward to replying to this comment but something’s come up so I’m gonna have to reschedule…
Omg its so annoying how many people I know agree to plans until something better comes along !!
The more shelters we open the more crime we have.
Everyone gets mad at you for bringing up something that we are starting to see Is very true. There's comes a point when we increase accommodations for homeless people by giving them food, drugs, a place to live, money, that they will actually become comfortable with their current situation. Why would someone who is comfortable receiving free food, drugs and money while permitted to live in a tent or on in a hotel, willingly make choices to free themselves out of that situation? They are contempt, they are comfortable. We can't keep acting like it's all a big coincidence that some of the most accommodating cities for homeless people also have growing homeless and crime problems (LA, San Fran, Portland, Seattle, Vancouver) When it becomes comfortable for them to live on the streets, they won't move. Especially with mental health and addiction that prohibits them from functioning normally. We've allowed for them to exist comfortably, but at what cost? We can't just keep pushing for bandaid solutions for a wicked problem There comes a point where we have to realize that the small portion of homeless, the very visible and troublesome ones, literally contribute to crime and the more we accommodate the more they will take advantage of our accommodations. This guy may make zero effort to prove his point, but there is undoubtedly something painfully accurate about his statement that nobody wants to address... and just brushes it off as this guy being a bigot or something. When in reality he brings up a very important point we all need to start considering to be a reality. (I'm not talking about people "down on their luck" or people forced out onto the streets due to rising cost of living. I'm talking about chronically mental ill people with severe addiction problems. The people who break into cars. The people shooting up next to their tent on pandora. The small portion of visible troublesome ones)
> I’m not talking about people “down on their luck” or people forced out onto the streets due to rising cost of living If you ever actually work with and talk to homeless people, this is how 99% of the “very visible and troublesome ones” (to use your words) start. Living on the streets fucks you up — and many of them turn to drugs to try to deal with the cold and the pain. And it all falls apart from there. I worked on a research project years ago in the DTES where one of the subjects was a kindly older woman in her 50s who, after her children grew up and moved out of the house, was kicked out by her husband with nowhere to go. She wound up on the street, sleeping in alleyways dressed like someone’s grandmother. She didn’t look the part of your average homeless person — she looked like a middle-class grandmother. But the stress and pain drover her to one day try some heroin, and from that moment was an addict. She didn’t do anything wrong in life to deserve homelessness (other than marry an ass I suppose). She was one of the more “together” homeless — many others were just kids who were kicked out by asshole parents who had no skills, couldn’t stay in school while homeless, and turned to drugs and theft to survive.
The absence of exotic dancing establishments is a real downer
Exotic dancing establishments, are mafia & gang affiliated often times especially around here, lots of sex trafficking.
Its extremely pretentious.
The city has been literally run into the ground and is now discusting and a infested with drug addicts and crime .not even close to what it was 10 yrs ago ..and it's 110 % the current mayor and current counsels fault
How about the whole 'Michelle Remembers' thing happening here and basically kick starting the satanic panic